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Speaker 1: A real change of pace. We're going to get straight

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Speaker 1: into it and well, joining me live on the line

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Speaker 1: this morning from Alice Springs, we have got the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good morning to your commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning now, Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: I might go first to that shocking incident that we

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Speaker 1: saw well last week, this thirty eight year old man

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Speaker 1: arrested and charged after allegedly driving at police in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: I know that officers responded to those reports of a

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Speaker 1: disturbance on Todd Street. When police say that the man

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Speaker 1: drove that ute at speed towards the officer on the

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Speaker 1: road and also at the marked vehicle. The vision was shocking, Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: and I mean when you look at it, it's really

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Speaker 1: concerning stuff, really concerning to see the police targeted in

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Speaker 1: this way. What's the situation a week on, how are

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Speaker 1: the police going in Alice?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Thanks Katie. Look, there is no taking away that

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Speaker 2: vision was shocking and I got to view that vision

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Speaker 2: shortly after that incident occurred and made the decision to

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Speaker 2: come out and make that vision public, so the public

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Speaker 2: could actually see what our police officers have to deal

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Speaker 2: with regularly and see what our officers at that time,

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Speaker 2: I obviously were faced within that decision making. So look,

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Speaker 2: things have quieted a little bit in Alice Springs since

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Speaker 2: that incident. There is some still family fighting and conflict

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Speaker 2: going on, but we've been very firm with these families

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Speaker 2: involved that you know, this relying on the excuse of

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Speaker 2: customary law to bring violence and offending in the Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs will not be tolerated, and if they continue to

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Speaker 2: do it, we will continue to respond and lock people

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Speaker 2: up that believe that it's okay to bring criminal behavior

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Speaker 2: into Alice Springs and unfold that on our streets.

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Speaker 1: It was a big move to release that footage, but

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Speaker 1: I know that you've just pointed out why to do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I actually I agree with you. I think

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly important that people actually see some of the

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Speaker 1: behavior that our Northern Territory police have faced with every

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Speaker 1: single day.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Katie, that's right. So our police were victims

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Speaker 2: in that matter, and you know, we wanted to put

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Speaker 2: that out so the public were aware of, you know,

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Speaker 2: what they were faced with and the decision making that

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Speaker 2: they faced. I've spoken to the officer that was involved

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Speaker 2: in that and that made the decision to discharge his firearm.

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Speaker 2: He's obviously quite shaken up about the incident, but he's

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Speaker 2: back at work and he's back performing his duties for us,

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Speaker 2: and some of the other officers that were involved, including

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Speaker 2: the officer that was driving the cars on night shift

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Speaker 2: at the moment. So I haven't had a chance to

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Speaker 2: catch up with him, but they're all back at work

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Speaker 2: and they're all performing their duties and protecting the community.

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Speaker 1: You touched on this just a moment ago, you know,

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Speaker 1: family feuding, the talk of customary law, things like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are some of the issues being experienced in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs at the moment? Are they family disputes? What's

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Speaker 1: going on and what can be done? I suppose from

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Speaker 1: the police perspective, to work with elders, to work with

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Speaker 1: others in the community to try and put a stop

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Speaker 1: to us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, thanks, Katie. So these incidents that occurring in

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Speaker 2: other springs are exactly that. They are family disputes and

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Speaker 2: they're targeted attacks between people that are known to each other. Now, look,

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Speaker 2: our police across the Territory do a remarkable job. But

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Speaker 2: policing in remote and regional communities in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: is really unlike plaicing anywhere else in Australia. So it's

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Speaker 2: really not just simply about responding to incidents. It's about

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Speaker 2: building relationships. It's about understanding family structures, kinship systems and

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Speaker 2: community dynamics, and it's about recognizing that conflict can be layered.

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Speaker 2: It can be personal, family, cultural, historical, and often all

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Speaker 2: at once. So policing in our regional areas demand police

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Speaker 2: officers that can enforce the law firmly while also navigating

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Speaker 2: that cultural complexity. But I want to be really clear, Katie,

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Speaker 2: customary law cannot be used as a shield for serious

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Speaker 2: criminal offending, and we cannot allow and we will not allow,

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Speaker 2: any framework, whether described as customary or not, to excuse

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Speaker 2: repeated and serious violent offending.

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Speaker 1: Are you worried that that's what's happening in the community,

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Speaker 1: that people are engaging in violent crime and then trying

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Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, to mask it by saying

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Speaker 1: that it's customary law.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what's occurring, and that's exactly what we've addressed

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Speaker 2: with Senior elders and senior leaders from some of these communities.

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Speaker 2: But we've made it We've made it very clear if

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Speaker 2: you fight in our towns otherwise you will be arrested

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Speaker 2: and we will put extra police where they're needed and

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Speaker 2: use all the powers available to us to protect the community,

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Speaker 2: because even though that the community aren't being randomly targeted,

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Speaker 2: they're being exposed to and having to witness this violence

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Speaker 2: unfolding on our streets and it won't be toler and

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Speaker 2: we've made that pretty clear to the communities. Do not

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Speaker 2: bring your violence into other springs or into Darwin. This

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Speaker 2: is not mutual territory to sort out scores. People live here,

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Speaker 2: our kids walk the street. People deserve businesses are trying

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Speaker 2: to keep their doors open, and people deserve it a

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Speaker 2: little bit of respect, and sadly that's lacking at the moment, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, do you feel like is there anything additional that

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Speaker 1: the police need to be doing at this point in

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Speaker 1: time to try to calm things down or do you

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Speaker 1: feel as though you've got it under control.

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Speaker 2: No, Katie, We've met with these groups and we've made

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Speaker 2: it very clear that keep your disputes on communities, resolve

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Speaker 2: your disputes peacefully without violence in your own communities, and

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Speaker 2: do not bring them into our major centers. And we've

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Speaker 2: sent that message, and that message has been pretty evidenced

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Speaker 2: by other responses that we've had to this violence. We've

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Speaker 2: responded quickly, We've locked people up, and we told the

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Speaker 2: family that we will be opposing bail because we don't

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Speaker 2: believe if these people are back out that they're not

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Speaker 2: going to continue to offend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what do you make of that discussion

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Speaker 1: that this person, this alleged defender, allegedly on Dale and

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Speaker 1: then able to target the police in that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Katie. So with the discussions we had

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Speaker 2: with his family and his elders, they expressed a level

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Speaker 2: of remorse and shame that they weren't able to control

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Speaker 2: his behavior, and they said to us, we don't want

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Speaker 2: him bowed back to the community. We can't control him.

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Speaker 2: They gave us certain lists of people that they wanted

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Speaker 2: us to look at. They wanted us to place on

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Speaker 2: the band drinkers register. They said, these people shouldn't have

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Speaker 2: access to alcohol because we're not convinced that they're going

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Speaker 2: to use it responsibly. So a lot of those elders

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Speaker 2: that came in and talked to us at the police

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Speaker 2: station this week. You know, I have expressed exasperation about

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Speaker 2: the situation, and they encouraged the police to be strong

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Speaker 2: and be firm in responding to these incidents and make

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Speaker 2: sure that these people were dealt with, and we certainly

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Speaker 2: expressed that we will be doing.

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Speaker 1: Good on them. I think that it's good that they've

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Speaker 1: spoken with the police and talked about some of those solutions. Commission,

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about some of the

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Speaker 1: issues that are being experienced in Catherine around crime. Yesterday

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Speaker 1: we spoke to a restaurant owner who's had to temporarily

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Speaker 1: close up as staff are really pretty concerned for their

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Speaker 1: safety after their chef was robbed at knife point. Has

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Speaker 1: there been a bit of an uptick in Catherine around

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Speaker 1: youth crime.

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Speaker 2: Katie, there has, yes, Look, there is no escaping. There

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Speaker 2: has been some very visible and alarming offenses that have

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Speaker 2: occurred in Catherine. I've spoken to the management team at

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Speaker 2: Catherine last week and pleasingly, we responded quite swiftly and

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Speaker 2: we've taken some people in custody in relation to those incidents.

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Speaker 2: And whilst things were generally looking a little bit better

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Speaker 2: in Catherine. It's not lost on me that the levels

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Speaker 2: are still high. So I think the message that when

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Speaker 2: we put out and say look, our crime stats have

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Speaker 2: turned the corner and we're looking better, we haven't solved

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Speaker 2: the problem. Katie. We're not saying that everything's fixed and

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Speaker 2: that everyone should celebrate. What we're saying is that we've

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Speaker 2: done an incredible amount of work across the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: to bring these crime stats down, but they're still high

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Speaker 2: and has not lost on us that we've still got

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Speaker 2: a lot of work to do and we're still going

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Speaker 2: to continue that effort and respond swiftly. So those incidents

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Speaker 2: that occurred in Catherine last week, we identified offenders really

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Speaker 2: quickly and we've taken people in custody in relation to

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Speaker 2: those and particularly within twenty four hours, we had a

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Speaker 2: nineteen year old male that was arrested and he's been

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Speaker 2: charged with a number of serious offenses in relation to

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Speaker 2: that crime series that we saw last week in Catherine.

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Speaker 1: Now, just in relation to Catherine as well, we had

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Speaker 1: the mayor on a little bit earlier this week. They're

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Speaker 1: keen to hold a round table to try and work

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Speaker 1: on some community led solutions when it comes to crime.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that you or you know any of

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Speaker 1: your executive would be keen to attend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Katie. We're always willing to work with the

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Speaker 2: community in any forums that we can. You know, police

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Speaker 2: obviously front and foremost a lot of this violence and

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Speaker 2: we've got a lot of knowledge about some of the

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Speaker 2: drivers behind that. We're always interested in alternative justice arrangements

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Speaker 2: and where we often work across the community in the

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Speaker 2: regional centers as well to give suggestions from a policing

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Speaker 2: perspective and other things that can assist us to do

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Speaker 2: our job more effectively as well.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner had a listener who got in contact me with

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Speaker 1: me who lives in Nightcliff. Now their street was last

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Speaker 1: week targeted by youths who broke into the neighbors home

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Speaker 1: attempting to steal an older model Toyota. Then later in

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Speaker 1: the day that team was arrested. But the listener wants

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Speaker 1: to know are youths targeting older model cars like the Toyota,

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Speaker 1: highlus and cruisers the older ones and are they taking

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Speaker 1: them to drive back to the community. What work are

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Speaker 1: the police doing to sort this out? But also what

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Speaker 1: can listeners do to protect themselves and their cars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Katie, that's a good question. So there is

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Speaker 2: no doubt that some of the older model cars and

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Speaker 2: particularly towards, are a favorite to some of our youths

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Speaker 2: that like to target vehicles, and we'd encourage everybody to

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Speaker 2: take steps to isolate that vehicle and make it as

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Speaker 2: difficult as possible. So steering locks and things obviously have

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Speaker 2: a high degree of success in protecting your vehicle. But yes,

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Speaker 2: definitely older model vehicles are targets for youth because they

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Speaker 2: seem to be a little bit easier for to steal

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Speaker 2: on hot wire. But the other thing, Katie, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the vehicles that we see stolen as a result

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Speaker 2: of people accessing houses and getting the keys, So we

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Speaker 2: would encourage people not to leave their keys out in

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Speaker 2: open and look, nobody should be entering your house without

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Speaker 2: permissions and unwauful entry and property crimes are some of

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Speaker 2: the most significant things that impact people because it's in

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Speaker 2: your personal space and it's your personal property. And that's

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Speaker 2: not lost on us because people are severely impacted when

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Speaker 2: that happens. But there's some there's some things you can

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Speaker 2: do to protect yourself as well by keeping your doors locked,

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Speaker 2: not leaving your windows open, making sure your keys aren't

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Speaker 2: easily accessible, and there's some things that you can do

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Speaker 2: to make yourself less of a target. But yes, if

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Speaker 2: you do have an older vehicle, it is more likely

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Speaker 2: to be targeted.

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Speaker 1: It's a pretty bloody ordinary situation, isn't it. Where you're

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Speaker 1: having to get a steering lock or having to get

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Speaker 1: you know, to take these different measures in order for

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Speaker 1: somebody to not flog your car.

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Speaker 2: It's totally it's not acceptable, Ki, but there are things

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Speaker 2: that we can do to make sure that it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit more difficult, and we'll continue to target these

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Speaker 2: offenders that behave in this and will continue to make

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Speaker 2: sure that they're put away and that they're before the

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Speaker 2: court as a result of the consequences. And look, it

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Speaker 2: is still occurring, but there has been a downturn in

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Speaker 2: property crime, there's been a downturn in unloafle entries, and

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Speaker 2: whilst it's some of the most impactful offending on people,

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Speaker 2: it's becoming less. So we're going to continue to target

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Speaker 2: the people that are doing that and hopefully drive those

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Speaker 2: statistics way further down.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner A quick one I caught up with the commander

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Speaker 1: in the Whatever region last week and he told us

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Speaker 1: that there'd been more than ninety arrests. What kind of

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Speaker 1: impact has that had on the community sort of a week.

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Speaker 2: On, Yeah, a significant impact, Katie. So that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: There's been ninety three rests in what I as a

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Speaker 2: result of that violent conflict that was occurring throughout January

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Speaker 2: and February, and there's been an additional ten arrest in

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Speaker 2: relation to unrelated matters where people had warrants for non

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Speaker 2: appearance in court. So over one hundred people have been

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Speaker 2: locked up and a large amount of those have been

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Speaker 2: reminded in custody. That's given the officers at what I

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a circuit breaker to be able

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Speaker 2: to go out and try and negotiate with the community

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Speaker 2: some resolution to this ongoing conflict. And like I said

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of this interview, it's the same situation

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Speaker 2: out there as we're seeing across the territory is using

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Speaker 2: cultural culture as an excuse for violent conduct, and we're

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Speaker 2: clearly sending that message even on community to people that

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Speaker 2: customery law cannot be used as a shield for serious

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Speaker 2: criminal offending. I can't be clear on that it is

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Speaker 2: not an excuse to continue to go out and commit

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Speaker 2: violence against each other in the name of customary law.

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Speaker 2: It's an excuse and it won't be tolerated.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. I think that you know

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Speaker 1: that the wider community will not tolerate that either. But

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Speaker 1: are you worried that you're going to have you know,

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Speaker 1: some in the community claim that that you're you know,

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Speaker 1: that it's that it's racist for you not to sort of,

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Speaker 1: you know, to treat it that way.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, Katie. So look, I've worked

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Speaker 2: in the territory. I've been here my entire life, and

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Speaker 2: it's my experience that customery law is not a single

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Speaker 2: uniform concept across the Northern Territory. It varies greatly from

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Speaker 2: community community. It can be controlled, it can be peaceful,

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Speaker 2: and what may be accepted practice in one region might

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Speaker 2: not be accepted practice in a another region. And I

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Speaker 2: spoke at the Law and Justice conference last week where

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Speaker 2: some community justice groups came together and they had members

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Speaker 2: of the judiciary there speaking to them. We had community

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Speaker 2: courts they're represented, and they were working through frameworks to

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Speaker 2: work out, you know, what are some alternative options on

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Speaker 2: community to have some conflict resolution that didn't involve ongoing violence.

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Speaker 2: So there is there is some incredible work being done

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Speaker 2: on the communities. But I think the message from US

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Speaker 2: is clear is we will enforce the law. Custom can't

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Speaker 2: be used as an excuse to make women and children

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Speaker 2: in the general public at risk, and we won't tolerate it.

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Speaker 2: And we've got a role and responsibility to keep people

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Speaker 2: safe and that includes keeping community safe. And we will

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Speaker 2: not tolerate any excuse, whether it's chieldren in customary law

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Speaker 2: or not, that doesn't make community safe. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to shy away from that, Katie Well.

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole, we are going to

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Speaker 1: have to leave it there. I really appreciate you having

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Speaker 1: a chat with us today.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for your tom Katie, thank you, thanks so much,