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Speaker 1: The government set to introduce that legislation in an effort

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Speaker 1: will from the government's perspective to restore balance to the

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Speaker 1: Anti Discrimination Act of nineteen ninety two. The Attorney General

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Speaker 1: Marie Claire Boothby saying the reforms directly respond to Labour's

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two changes, which she said blurred the line

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Speaker 1: between unlawful discrimination and everyday conversation. Joining me on the

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Speaker 1: line is the Attorney General, Marie Claire Boothby.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning, Katie, and to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Attorney General, the new bill removes what you've described as

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Speaker 1: vague language and replaces it with a clearer and higher

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Speaker 1: legal legal threshold. What wording does this bill use which

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Speaker 1: makes it clearer?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie. So your listeners may remember that back in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two there was a clause inserted which are

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Speaker 2: talked about how if you offend someone, insult them or

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Speaker 2: humiliate them and in fact intimidate them, that you could

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Speaker 2: attract civil penalties. We heard loud and clear from the

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Speaker 2: community and said at the time that we would remove

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Speaker 2: that clause because we think that freedom of speech and

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Speaker 2: everyday conversations of territorians. You know, you shouldn't think that

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Speaker 2: just because you may or may not offend someone, which

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Speaker 2: she's very unclear, that you should end up in front of,

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Speaker 2: you know, a hearing of some sort. So we have

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Speaker 2: now set to introduce the replacement of that, which we're

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Speaker 2: very clear with the community that we wanted to still

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Speaker 2: retain the valification. That's based on feedback we had. So

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Speaker 2: it will now read that if you incite hatred, serious

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Speaker 2: contempt or severe ridicule that could be cause for complaint.

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Speaker 2: And so it's that really clear definition. Now it's very

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Speaker 2: much in line with other jurisdictions. Tasmania also has this,

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Speaker 2: and so, like I said, we wanted to maintain the

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Speaker 2: vilification because we don't stand for hate speech or anything

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Speaker 2: like that, but we did want to remove the words

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Speaker 2: like offend because of course that's very subjective. You know,

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Speaker 2: it might be a fan by something that I'm not

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Speaker 2: and vice versa. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, you know I know that at the time when

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Speaker 1: that change was made, people were quite concerned about it

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Speaker 1: and they were wondering what it was going to mean.

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Speaker 1: So now with the change that you guys are actually introducing,

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Speaker 1: has there been consultation around this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Katie. So I've met with not only the

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Speaker 2: Anti Discrimination Commissioner and heard exactly how that works being

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Speaker 2: done over the last couple of years, but also many

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Speaker 2: of the other groups throughout our community, including that of

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Speaker 2: the LGBTQ AIA, plus groups like health organizations, churches, religious

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Speaker 2: groups that sat down with the mother individually or in groups.

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Speaker 2: And I've really heard loud and clear that they definitely

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Speaker 2: didn't want it to removed altogether because that could open

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Speaker 2: the door, but that by making those changes would still

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Speaker 2: mean that we can, you know, live in a harmonious

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Speaker 2: multicultural life that we all love here, but that we

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Speaker 2: didn't have to end up in front of a hearing

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Speaker 2: if you happen to offend somebody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you confident that by you know, change

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Speaker 1: this line, that you know that it has to be

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Speaker 1: a language that incites hatred, serious contempt, to aw severe ridicule.

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Speaker 1: Are you confident that that will indeed protect people that

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Speaker 1: are maybe part of a minority group, but also ensure

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Speaker 1: that you know, I guess for somebody out at a

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Speaker 1: barbecue or somebody out making a comment or having a

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Speaker 1: conversation that they're not going to, you know, get called

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Speaker 1: into into the anti discrimination Commissioner's office.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Katy. That's been the real problem with

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Speaker 2: the word offend being in there. And what I do

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Speaker 2: know from the Anti Discrimination Commissioner is that there were

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Speaker 2: in that time forty complaints made of that nature and

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Speaker 2: ninety about forty well, that's just the thing. I believe

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Speaker 2: it ranges from all sorts of things. But what he

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Speaker 2: also said was that ninety percent of those cases, after

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Speaker 2: being assessed were thrown out, as in, you know, there's

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Speaker 2: something to see here, it wasn't actually something to you know,

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Speaker 2: be a complaint about. And so what's happening is that

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Speaker 2: that commission has been spending a lot of time and

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Speaker 2: resources doing this kind of work when what we really

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Speaker 2: want him to be doing, which is very important for

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Speaker 2: our community, is focusing on that true discrimination and making

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Speaker 2: sure that you know, we don't have that kind of

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Speaker 2: behavior happening to people based on their attributes. You know,

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Speaker 2: we live in a really free society. Repeat that, going.

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Speaker 1: Minister in terms of one of the other issues that

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Speaker 1: was raised at the time that this change was made,

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Speaker 1: and I know I'd spoken to Bishop Galchi about it,

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Speaker 1: I'd spoken to I believe the either the independent schools

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Speaker 1: or Christian or Catholic schools. I apologize I can't remember which,

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Speaker 1: but they'd raised some concerns as well about you know,

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Speaker 1: about staff, and they wanted to be able to employ

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Speaker 1: people that were of the same faith. What's this change

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Speaker 1: going to mean for them?

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Speaker 2: That's right, And Territorians may remember back in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: Labor removed the section that was for protections for those

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Speaker 2: religious education institutions so that they were open to civil

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Speaker 2: proceedings just by it, just because they may hire someone

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Speaker 2: who has the same religion, which you know, at the time,

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Speaker 2: like you said, there was massive calls from many different

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Speaker 2: groups around the territory who were saying, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: not just teachers and the schools that want to be

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Speaker 2: sure that those faith based teachings can continue in their schools,

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Speaker 2: but it's the parents of you know, territorians who are

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Speaker 2: parents that want to choose to send their child to

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Speaker 2: a school of a faith that might be in their family,

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Speaker 2: and they want to know that those teachers are continuing

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Speaker 2: to teach that faith. So what we've done in this

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Speaker 2: introduction that's happening today is put back the protections in

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Speaker 2: there so that it allows for those institutions to be

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Speaker 2: able to give preference to the staff who share the

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Speaker 2: same faith and the same ethos as them without worrying

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Speaker 2: about having a complaint against them.

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Speaker 1: Minister, I are you expecting that this legislation is going

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Speaker 1: to pass in the Parliament today?

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Speaker 2: No, so today it'll be introduced and then it basically

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Speaker 2: won't be debated again until the next sittings, which is

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Speaker 2: probably later in the year, maybe September, and that'll be

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Speaker 2: the chance, obviously for all of the people in Parliament

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Speaker 2: to have their contributions and we'll go through the questions

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Speaker 2: and answers like we do for all other legislation. But

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Speaker 2: it has been a long time coming, and I want

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Speaker 2: to remind territories that this was a really clear election

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Speaker 2: commitment and it started way back in twenty twenty two

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Speaker 2: when we oppose those changes in the parliaments, and that

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Speaker 2: was based on all of the feedback we're getting from

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Speaker 2: the community. And so you know, we're delivering on that

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Speaker 2: commitment to put back those protections and to change those words.

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Speaker 2: We're still based on that feedback from the community since

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Speaker 2: that time. Still make sure that there is a vilification

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Speaker 2: clause in there so we don't open the door to

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Speaker 2: hate speech, but also that you know, now for those

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Speaker 2: religious institutions, they can still employ faith, the people of faith,

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Speaker 2: but they don't have to worry about having some sort

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Speaker 2: of proceeding against them. And that's really important for territories

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Speaker 2: and parents who choose to send their children to those schools.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Minister, I know we're pressed for time, but I

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Speaker 1: just want to ask you about a couple of other things.

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Speaker 1: We know that some pressure is really starting to mount,

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Speaker 1: I would say towards the Northern Territories Coroner. Yesterday in

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Speaker 1: Parliament we did see a situation where the Minister for

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Speaker 1: the Prevention of Domestic Violence, Robin Carl, stood up in

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Speaker 1: Parliament and said that she never expected a panaceer when

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Speaker 1: it came to the coronial inquest into the deaths of

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Speaker 1: four women to domestic violence, but she found the long

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Speaker 1: anticipated report failed so dismally to hit the mark. She

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Speaker 1: said that Coroner Armitage's approach has been protracted, resulting in

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Speaker 1: lengthy reports delivered in a manner seeming to lack the

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Speaker 1: humility that one might expect from an officer of the court,

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Speaker 1: more focused on the reveal rather than the result. She's

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Speaker 1: also accused the Coroner of not being brave enough to

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Speaker 1: make recommendations related to Aboriginal culture, pointing to examples noted

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Speaker 1: elsewhere in the findings of cultural pressure used as a

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Speaker 1: form of coercive control. She's called out the behavior in

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Speaker 1: you know, the recommendations, or she has said that calling

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Speaker 1: out the behavior in her recommendations could have paved the

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Speaker 1: way to empower communities to take a stand on this

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Speaker 1: very sensitive and challenging issue. Attorney General, does the Coroner

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Speaker 1: still have the confidence of the Northern Territory government.

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Speaker 2: Katie, What's really important for your listeners is that the

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Speaker 2: Minister for Prevention of Domestic Violence is absolutely passionate and

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Speaker 2: steadfast in making sure that changes are made to our

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Speaker 2: system which allows for domestic violence to continue at the

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Speaker 2: horrific rates in which they have a course, this has

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Speaker 2: been over a long period of time, it's increasing. It's

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Speaker 2: a scourge on our society and you know, this is

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Speaker 2: an awful, awful situation that we've inherited. We have to

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Speaker 2: take the steps now to make changes, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the Minister was very clear on what she would like

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Speaker 2: to be going forward to pave that way. And you know,

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Speaker 2: me as Attorney General. I'd back her in for that.

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Speaker 2: Like I've already brought forward to Parliament changes to legislation

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Speaker 2: which finally puts the perpetrator on the back foot when

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Speaker 2: it comes to domestic violence because it's the victims that

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Speaker 2: we need to protect and support and for too long

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Speaker 2: we had this narrative around well, we need to, you know,

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Speaker 2: make sure that the women are supported, but also don't

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Speaker 2: lock up the perpetue.

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Speaker 1: What you're saying. Totally get what you're saying, so.

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Speaker 2: You approach doesn't worry well and taking.

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Speaker 1: That into account, So taking into account the fact that

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Speaker 1: you know that you obviously back Minister Robin carr Well

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Speaker 1: and the words that she said in Parliament yesterday. Coroner

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Speaker 1: Armitage's approach has been protracted, resulting in lengthy reports delivered

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Speaker 1: in a manner seeming to lack the humility one might

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Speaker 1: expect from an officer of the court, more focused on

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Speaker 1: the reveal rather than the result. Is the current coroner

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Speaker 1: the right person for.

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Speaker 2: The job, Katie, I don't think it's about the person

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Speaker 2: per se, and I definitely don't want to get into

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Speaker 2: that conversation. I think that coroner has a very very

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Speaker 2: important role to play in making sure that she's looking

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Speaker 2: at deaths that happen and especially if there's something that

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Speaker 2: needs some change at a government level, and that work

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Speaker 2: she has been doing. And obviously we've seen some inquests

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Speaker 2: of most recent times be delivered. Some of those have

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Speaker 2: taken a very very long time and that cost a

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Speaker 2: lot territories a lot of money. And so of course

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Speaker 2: we want to make sure that the process is robust

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Speaker 2: and that does force the change that is needed based

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Speaker 2: on those reports. But we also need to make sure

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Speaker 2: that it's not going to be too long and drawn

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Speaker 2: out and you know, sort of everything thrown at just

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Speaker 2: say one or two cases or three or four cases.

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Speaker 2: It's about making sure that the reports that are being

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Speaker 2: done are able to make the changes that we need.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so, is the government effectively like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know what the requirement is here, and I know

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Speaker 1: that there obviously needs to be a separation of powers,

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Speaker 1: But is the government effectively putting the coroner on notice?

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Speaker 2: No o, Katie. So, I think what I want to

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Speaker 2: be really clear with territorians is when we came to government,

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Speaker 2: we started looking under the hood of all of these

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Speaker 2: different things and realizing that there's some serious challenges that

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Speaker 2: we have in the Northern Territory. I mean, we already

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Speaker 2: knew that. Territorians know that, and so our job as

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Speaker 2: a government is to work on the solutions to be

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Speaker 2: able to move the territory forward, and the court system,

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Speaker 2: including all of the judges and the coroners like they're

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Speaker 2: part of a whole system that of course, we're going

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Speaker 2: to look at every single avenue that we have available

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Speaker 2: to us through legislation to make sure we can move

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Speaker 2: the territory forward, we can solve these long standing, awful

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Speaker 2: problems that we have in the territory because everybody wants

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Speaker 2: the territory to be the place that they know it

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Speaker 2: to be, and that's exactly why we keep on making

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Speaker 2: these changes. What we won't do is just stand and

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Speaker 2: stand still and do nothing.

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Speaker 1: Attorney General. On that note, is there any update on

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Speaker 1: the court sitting on Saturdays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Katie, I have been looking at that legislation

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Speaker 2: and there's still a lot of work to be done.

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Speaker 2: What I can say though, is that you know, we've

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Speaker 2: always talked about the work that's been done in the courts,

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Speaker 2: and we are starting to see even though there's huge demands.

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Speaker 2: Still there's still crime happen, there's people being arrested. Is

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Speaker 2: that the finalization matters are finally increasing so that it's

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Speaker 2: outpacing the number of new cases coming in, so which

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Speaker 2: means the courts are starting to work in the way

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Speaker 2: that they should. And don't get me wrong, there are

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Speaker 2: still a lot of challenges. The other really important new

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Speaker 2: information that I got based from the courts was the

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Speaker 2: fact that for the first time in a very very

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Speaker 2: long time, the number of sentenced prisoners now is more

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Speaker 2: than the number of remand prisoners. That has actually shifted

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Speaker 2: over the last month, which is actually really good news.

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Speaker 2: And the other good news is that the number of

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Speaker 2: days that people are on remand has decreased by seven

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Speaker 2: percent over last year. So they're really small shifts, and

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Speaker 2: it's really important that we continue to look at those

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Speaker 2: and like I've said when I spoke to you on

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Speaker 2: your show previously, I am looking at extending those hours.

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Speaker 2: That demand doesn't look like it's letting up. People are

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Speaker 2: still breaking the law, and like we've said from the start,

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Speaker 2: we will continue to make those changes to ensure that

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Speaker 2: one offenders are dealt with and the community can be safe.

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Speaker 2: But also that they do go through the system and

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Speaker 2: that they can come out of the other side as

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Speaker 2: better human beans and not be back on the street

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Speaker 2: doing more crime.

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Speaker 1: Well, Attorney General Marie Claire Booby, I know you've got

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Speaker 1: to get into Parliament. Appreciate your time. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: chatting with us as much.

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Speaker 2: Thrankie, thank you.