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Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oz. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 1: the twelfth of May, and on our jam packed episode

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Speaker 1: today we have our editor Billy speaking to Chris Bowen.

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Speaker 1: He is the Shadow Minister for Climate Change and Billy

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Speaker 1: has grilled him all on what Labour is taking to

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Speaker 1: this election when it comes to climate which we know

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Speaker 1: our audience cares about as a top election priority. But

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Speaker 1: before that, we're going to run through the day's headlines

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Speaker 1: and Sam is here to take.

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Speaker 2: Us through them. First up, Opposition leader Anthony Albanizi has

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Speaker 2: backed a five point one percent minimum wage rise. He

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Speaker 2: said he absolutely would support the increase. Prime Minister Scott

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Speaker 2: Morrison labeled Albanesi a loose unit on Wednesday, suggesting quote

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Speaker 2: what we saw from Anthony Albanzi was reckless.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, the Victorian government introduced legislation to criminalize the intentional

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Speaker 1: display of the Nazi symbol. Under the legislation, anyone who

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Speaker 1: intentionally displays the Nazi symbol in a public setting will

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Speaker 1: face penalties of up to twenty two thousand dollars or

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Speaker 1: twelve months imprisonment, or both.

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Speaker 2: A federal government report has found ninety one percent of

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Speaker 2: reef's surveyed on the Great Barrier reef experience some form

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Speaker 2: of bleaching over summer. Bleaching occurs when corals come under

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Speaker 2: stress from changes such as an increase in temperature. Experts

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Speaker 2: say climate change is a key driver of increased levels

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Speaker 2: of bleaching.

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Speaker 1: The good news Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky has awarded Patron,

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Speaker 1: a bomb sniffing dog, with an award for his dedicated

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Speaker 1: work in the army. Patron is said to have detected

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Speaker 1: more than two hundred undetonated explosive devices since the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the war. We are mere days away from the

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Speaker 1: next federal election, and time and time again, the thing

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Speaker 1: that has come up as a big issue for young

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Speaker 1: voters is climate change. One of the two major parties

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Speaker 1: in this election is the Labor Party, and so today

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Speaker 1: our editor Billy fitz Simons has sat down with Chris Bowen,

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Speaker 1: Labour's climate change spokesperson, to discuss what it is in

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Speaker 1: fact Labor is taking to this election in terms of

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Speaker 1: emissions reductions and commit it meants. Here's that interview, mister Bowen.

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Speaker 3: To start, for our listeners who aren't familiar with you,

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Speaker 3: do you mind introducing yourself?

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Speaker 4: So my name is Chris Bowen. I am the Member

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Speaker 4: for McMahon in Western Sydney and I'm also the Shadow

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Speaker 4: Minister for Climate Change and Energy and if the Labor

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Speaker 4: Party wins the election, if we come first or May

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Speaker 4: twenty first, I'll become the Minister for Climate Change and Energy.

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Speaker 3: Now, speaking at a very top level, can you explain

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Speaker 3: how the Labor Party plans to reduce emissions by forty

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Speaker 3: three percent by twenty thirty, which is the target that

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Speaker 3: has been set up by the Labor Party.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, So I won't bore our listeners with all

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Speaker 4: the policies because there's a lot there. We released our

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Speaker 4: policy on December third last year. It's very detailed and comprehensive.

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Speaker 4: The modeled result of our policies is a forty three

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Speaker 4: percent of missions reduction by twenty thirty. So it's not

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Speaker 4: just a target. It is a target. It's not just

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Speaker 4: a target. It's also the result of our policies that

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Speaker 4: are being modeled. So anybody can set the target and

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Speaker 4: so we're going to do this or that. Unless you

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Speaker 4: explain how you're going to do it, it doesn't really count.

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Speaker 4: So there's lots of policies under beneath it. There's sort

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Speaker 4: of really two big ones which drive a lot of

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Speaker 4: missions reduction, just sort of fairly briefly, there's the safeguard's

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Speaker 4: mechanism that's getting a fee bit of attention at the

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Speaker 4: moment from a pretty silly scare campaign by the Liberal

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Speaker 4: or National Party, But that's really requiring the top two

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifteen emitters to get their emissions down to

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Speaker 4: their zero by twenty fifty. And the second one, I

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Speaker 4: can talk more about that if you want, but that's

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Speaker 4: the sort of number it. Then the second one is

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Speaker 4: rewiring the nation, which is doesn't sound particularly sexy but

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Speaker 4: is really important. It is really upgrading our transmission rid,

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Speaker 4: investing biddens in our transmission rid, in the transmission wise

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Speaker 4: around the country because the grid can't cope the way

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Speaker 4: it is with more renewable energy. The regulators are already

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Speaker 4: knocking back big renewable energy installations now becausecried can't cope.

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Speaker 4: We need to generate a lot more electricity. We need

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Speaker 4: to electrify things that can be electrified. That just means

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Speaker 4: the grid needs to be stronger.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned the safeguard mechanism that we won't go into

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Speaker 3: the specifics of it, but Morrison has said that Labour's

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Speaker 3: changed to the safeguard mechanism is a quote sneaky carbon tax,

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Speaker 3: is it No?

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Speaker 4: And it's all pretty in one sense, it's complicated another sense,

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Speaker 4: it's quite simple. There's two hundred and fifteen biggest emitters

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Speaker 4: in the country and we'll work with them. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're not just going to tell them how to do it,

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Speaker 4: but we'll work with them and the cleaning Isy Regulator

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Speaker 4: will work with them on identifying what sort of technology

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Speaker 4: is available for them to reduce emissions, and what their

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Speaker 4: international competitiveness is and what their competitors face, and come

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Speaker 4: up with a plan to get them down to net

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Speaker 4: zero and they'll be able to decide how to do

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Speaker 4: that within that framework. So this sort of silly scared

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Speaker 4: campaign we see from the government, ultimately the safeguards mechanism

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Speaker 4: is actually their framework. They're just not implementing it the

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Speaker 4: right way. They're not requiring emitters to get down to

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Speaker 4: net zero, so they can't say it's not something under

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Speaker 4: their policy and it is under ours, because it's just

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Speaker 4: not true.

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Speaker 3: And what will the effects of your climate change policies

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Speaker 3: be on the Australian economy?

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Speaker 4: Very positive. And the ultimate point is that action on

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Speaker 4: climate change is good for the economy, right, it's the

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Speaker 4: right thing to do. More obligation of future generations, that's

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Speaker 4: the moral obligation in the rest of the world. All

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Speaker 4: that is very, very true, but it's also the right

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Speaker 4: thing to do for our economy because there's so many

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Speaker 4: jobs that can be created from renewable energy. So our

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Speaker 4: policy creates six hundred and four thousand jobs across the economy,

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Speaker 4: five out of six of those in the regions. So

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Speaker 4: you know, here a lot of people say, what about

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Speaker 4: the reasons, Well, again, the same areas that have produced

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Speaker 4: our energy for so long will produce our energy into

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Speaker 4: the future. We just want it to be more and

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Speaker 4: more renewable and that's going to create jobs as well.

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Speaker 4: Lower power prices because renewable energy is the cheapest form

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Speaker 4: of energy, helps manufacturers because manufacturing so energy intensive. So

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Speaker 4: it all adds up to a big increase in jobs,

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Speaker 4: an increase in investment. It's very much a plus for

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Speaker 4: the economy. And you know, last elections got Morrison ran

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Speaker 4: around saying the Global Party went to the cost of

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Speaker 4: the climate policy. He's not saying that this time because

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Speaker 4: he doesn't like the answer because the answer is that's

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Speaker 4: good for the economy.

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Speaker 3: Labor has said its policy will create hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 3: of jobs, but many communities will be worried about inevitable

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Speaker 3: job losses. What do you say to those communities.

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Speaker 4: I say that change is coming around the world, and

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to be dishonest about that. You know,

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Speaker 4: eighty percent of our trading partners are committed to net

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Speaker 4: zero by twenty fifty or thereabouts, so that means that

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Speaker 4: change is coming. And we have a choice. We can

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Speaker 4: just say to those communities nothing is changing, and light

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Speaker 4: to them and pretend that the world isn't changing and

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Speaker 4: lead them on their own. Or we can say no, no,

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Speaker 4: there's change coming. You know, industries do go through change,

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Speaker 4: and we will help you through that change, and we

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Speaker 4: will create new jobs. You know, We'll create new jobs

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Speaker 4: in renewable energy, we will create new jobs in manufacturing.

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Speaker 4: We'll create jobs in manufacturing of renewables. You know, we

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Speaker 4: put sixty million solar panels on roots in Australia the

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Speaker 4: last ten years, and one percent of them will be

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Speaker 4: made in Australia. We can't keep going like that. We've

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Speaker 4: got to do more of that work here, and it'll

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Speaker 4: happen by and large in the regions. And I want

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Speaker 4: regions to be at the center of it, and they

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Speaker 4: will be at the center of it. There will be

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Speaker 4: no new qualifire power stations in Australia. The government pretends

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Speaker 4: there will be, there won't be. It's just not going

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Speaker 4: to happen, and it shouldn't happen.

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Speaker 3: The Greens say, the Labor parties climate change policies don't

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Speaker 3: go far enough. What's your response to that.

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Speaker 4: Well, with all due respect to the Greens, as I

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Speaker 4: said before, anyone consider target, you know, you can say

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Speaker 4: this number or that number by twenty thirty or twenty

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Speaker 4: thirty five, you've got to be able to explain how

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Speaker 4: you can do it. And they haven't done that. They

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Speaker 4: won't do that because it's very hard to achieve emissions

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Speaker 4: reductions without very detailed policies, which is what we've got

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Speaker 4: and the Greens don't. And the other thing I'd say is,

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Speaker 4: let's just not pretend that you know, somehow forty three

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Speaker 4: percent isn't ambitious. It is because we're starting so late. Really,

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Speaker 4: it's twenty twenty two, twenty thirty is actually not that

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Speaker 4: far away to begin the sorts of changes that are

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Speaker 4: going to be necessary to get forty three percent reduction.

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Speaker 4: That's ninety two months. Ninety two months isn't long. Might

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Speaker 4: be different if we're starting in twenty thirteen when we

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Speaker 4: lost office, or twenty sixteen or twenty nineteen when we've

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Speaker 4: lost elections. But we're starting in twenty twenty two. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: that means there's a lot of catching up to do.

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Speaker 4: So forty three percent is actually quite ambitious. And as

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Speaker 4: I said, it's not just a targets, a target with teeth.

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Speaker 4: It's the result of our policies. If Adam's got higher figures,

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Speaker 4: he also needs to be able to show the modeling

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Speaker 4: and say how it achieve it, and he can't anyone.

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Speaker 3: Part of Labour's plan is to make electric vehicles cheaper

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Speaker 3: with an electric car discount. Has Labor done modeling on

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Speaker 3: when electric cars will cost the same amount as an

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Speaker 3: average car right now?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, there's a commonly understood crossover point for evs

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Speaker 4: and internal combustion g engines. That's not that far away.

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Speaker 4: It's about twenty twenty five. That's the case around the world.

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Speaker 4: Our policy will make them cheaper by cutting the taxes

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Speaker 4: on them, particularly the affordable end. I'm not too interested

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Speaker 4: in cutting the cost of you know, the two hundred

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars cars. Of course, if he can afford those,

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Speaker 4: you're probably going to buy them anyway. But I really

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Speaker 4: want to get more affordable models into Australia. People say

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Speaker 4: evs there are no affordable models. That's by a large

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Speaker 4: tool in Australia. It's not true everywhere around the world.

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Speaker 4: It's not true in the United Kingdom, it's not true

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Speaker 4: in Europe. You can get affordable evs. So we'll cut

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Speaker 4: the taxes at the lower.

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Speaker 3: End and just on that. How much will this reduce

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Speaker 3: emissions if those cars are still running on electricity that

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Speaker 3: comes from foss fuels.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so again, all the modeling shows that every EV

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Speaker 4: reduces emissions. Even if it's being fueled by cold fire

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Speaker 4: power station, it's still better for emissions than petrol. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: if you fuel it from solar panels, it's better. Still,

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Speaker 4: You've got to drive your EV for a while so

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Speaker 4: that it makes up, you know, the missions which went

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Speaker 4: into it, but it is unquestionably better. I think I

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Speaker 4: don't have the exact figure. I think if you drive

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Speaker 4: an EV powered by solar panels, it's about ninety percent

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Speaker 4: better than petrol. If you drive one powered by a

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Speaker 4: cold fire power station, I think I saw the figures,

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Speaker 4: it's about sixty percent better. So sure, if you can

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Speaker 4: do it off solar panels and a battery, fantastic. But

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Speaker 4: even if you're just taking it off the greed and

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Speaker 4: the grid is powered by cold fire, you're still doing

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Speaker 4: a good thing for the environment.

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Speaker 3: Just lastly, when we poled our audience, seventy three percent

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Speaker 3: of respondents said they believe politicians don't care about their future.

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Speaker 3: How can you do a better job at talking to

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Speaker 3: young Australians?

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Speaker 4: That figure worriesn't it? Because we do care? And to

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Speaker 4: be fair that there's lots of people in Parliament who

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Speaker 4: do care and who are in it for the right reasons,

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Speaker 4: and the right reason is the future. I mean, there's

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Speaker 4: no point. I'm not interested, frankly, so much in the

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Speaker 4: next headline or what the telegraph is saying tomorrow. I've

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Speaker 4: been around long enough to know that comes and goes,

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Speaker 4: and you know they're just going to say what they're

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Speaker 4: going to say, and they're going to do what they're

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Speaker 4: going to do. I am interested in leaving a mark

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Speaker 4: which lasts long beyond you know, when I leave Parliament,

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Speaker 4: which is some way off yet, but I want that

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Speaker 4: legacy to be there for a long time. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I asked, I asked for this job. Climate change is

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Speaker 4: a pretty frankly, pretty controversial area. It's destroyed plenty of

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Speaker 4: careers in Australian politics. I asked for the job because

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Speaker 4: I knew that this is where the action is in

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Speaker 4: terms of the big changes that future generations need. So

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Speaker 4: I wanted I thought, if I'm in politics, I might

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Speaker 4: as well do the tough jobs. I've got a sort

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Speaker 4: of a bit of a habit of getting the tougher

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Speaker 4: jobs and more controversial ones. And I asked for this

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Speaker 4: one because the implications are so big for the planet

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Speaker 4: and for the economy. I mean, you know, as we're

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Speaker 4: talking about it's good for the economy, and really in

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Speaker 4: terms of the strength of our economy, there's there's a

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Speaker 4: few bit more important things in getting this right.

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Speaker 3: Chris Bowen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

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Speaker 4: It's been great. Billy, thank you