1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Hello, it's Amantha here. How I Work is on a 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: little mini break, and so today I am bringing you 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: one of my favorite How I Work episodes that I've 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: recorded over the last year. What does it take to 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: make someone give up on their dream? Which straw is 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: it that finally breaks the camel's back? 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: For Hugh van Kylenberg. 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: A simple but critical mistake in his calendar almost spelt 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: the end of his company, The Resilience Project before it 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: had truly begun. 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: But more about that later. 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: You might be familiar with Hugh through his work with 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: the Resilience Project because nearly half a million school students 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: in Australia are currently doing the Resilience Project curriculum, and 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: about the same number of adults. 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: Are doing it too. 17 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: You might have also come across Hugh through his brilliant 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: podcast The Imperfects, where he speaks to high per ver 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: while people who share their struggles and imperfections. Now, given 20 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: Hughes work, you're probably expecting a chat about how Hugh 21 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: stays resilient, but instead we cover all sorts of other things, 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: like how he builds rapports super quickly with people, what 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,279 Speaker 1: the major turning points for the growth of the Resilience Project. 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: Were and how he minds his life. 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: For great stories to share with his audiences, because Hugh 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 1: really is a master storyteller. My name is doctor Amantha Immer. 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,279 Speaker 1: consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a show 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. So 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: Hugh had had a shocker of a morning on the 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: day that we recorded this interview. But having a one 32 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: on one chat in a studio is really nothing compared 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: to the stadiums of several thousand people that you would 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: normally address as part of his job. So I was 35 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: keen to know how does he get himself into the 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: headspace he really needs to be in when he's just 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: not feeling it. 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 3: I've got so many stories on that. I mean, I 39 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: grew up on. I mean I built the Resilience Project. 40 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: It started off doing presentations in primary schools because as 41 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: a primary school teacher and I thought I can do 42 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: good presentations to primary school kids. That's an audience I'm 43 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 3: used to and I know how to engage them. And 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: so that's how it started going to primary schools and 45 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 3: it grew so well I was going to say so quickly. 46 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: Didn't grow so quickly. But it got to a point 47 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 3: after a few years where I was doing four or 48 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: five one hour presentations a day to huge audiences. So 49 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: I'd go like it was ridiculous. I just couldn't say 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: no because I'd had two years where no one was 51 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 3: interested that the thought of saying no to people, it 52 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 3: just was so I'm not doing that. I'm just going 53 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: to say yes to everyone. And I would say ninety 54 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 3: percent of the presentations I did, I turned up in 55 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 3: a mood of just I can't do this. I've just 56 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: gotten nothing here. But there was no method or anything 57 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 3: I did. It is my favorite thing in the world 58 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: to do. I know it's a weird thing, but public 59 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: speaking is. I just love it ever since I was 60 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: a kid at school. Well that's not true. Primary school 61 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: it terrified me, but in secondary school I looked for 62 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 3: opportunities to do it because I just loved it. So 63 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: I think I'd often start. I'd get up on stage 64 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: in front of I don't know what was the last 65 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 3: one I did. We're so up in Cans. A few 66 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 3: weeks ago we had all these schools bust into the 67 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 3: performing arts center in cans So it was about two 68 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: thy five hundred nine to twelve year olds were coming 69 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 3: in and it was a third one for the day. 70 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: It was so hot. Theirconditioning had stopped working in this 71 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: and it was Canns. It was so hot. And I'd 72 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 3: been on the phone to my wife. We've been chatting 73 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: about stuff with our kids. She was having a really 74 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: rough time. She's very pregnant, and I felt so bad 75 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: that I wasn't at home. I just I was so 76 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: down to myself, going, I shouldn't have done this, should 77 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 3: be at home with Penny and the kids. And as 78 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: I'm on the phone tr I'm watching all these kids 79 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: just walking into the hall and I didn't do anything. 80 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: I think it was about probably two or three minutes in. 81 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: I just saw a kid who was sort of he 82 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: wasn't need a front. He was kind of set him 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: in the middle somewhere, and I just looked at him 84 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 3: and I remember thinking, my gosh, I don't know what 85 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 3: this kid's story is, but he clearly needs this right now. 86 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 3: And I kind of in my head was thinking, you're 87 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: presenting for this kid, and there's two thousand and five 88 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: hundred kids here, maybe he's the only one who get 89 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 3: something out of this, but he needs this right now, 90 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: and it did. But I didn't. There's nothing I did 91 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: consciously to go, come on, switch on, you need to 92 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: I got up there begrudgingly. To be honest, I hope 93 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: that people in Kens don't hear me say this, but 94 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: I was like, I can't. I don't have the energy 95 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 3: for this. But then I saw this one kid, and 96 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: you never know. There's a thing about podcasting which you'd 97 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 3: probably find you never know the impact you're having. I 98 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 3: don't think you really know. I mean, there's sometimes I 99 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: b I'm into people who say I've listened to every 100 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 3: episode and I needed this so much in my life, 101 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 3: and if I didn't bump to them, I would have 102 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 3: known that. So I think sometimes it helps to remind 103 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: yourself of the people who potentially you know, I've I've 104 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: been going back many years. I am. I was much 105 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 3: younger when I started it, and I did have more energy. Naturally. 106 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: I noticed now as a forty two year old that 107 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: it's it can tack it. It's a young person's game. 108 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 3: I think public speaking at that volume, But for me, 109 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: I think it's just trying to identify I think it. 110 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 3: Do you know what it is? I'm just I'm stumbling 111 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: around my answer bit here, but I think it's I 112 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: think it's coming back to your why, like why you're 113 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: doing it? Because for me, my WIY is to help 114 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 3: people to feel happier. And I think, no matter how 115 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: exhausted I am or whatever day I've had, I'm very 116 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: connected with my why. Like while I'm doing this, and 117 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: I think I didn't think to myself, come on to you, 118 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: what's your why? Why are you doing this? But I 119 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 3: saw a kid who looked like they just needed it 120 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 3: so desperately. There was a ten year old who had 121 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: tears streaming down their face, you know, like and that's 122 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 3: a big thing for a ten year old to do 123 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: in front of all their peers. And I just remember 124 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: thinking that, kids, why I'm here today? Like that that's 125 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 3: you know, that got me through that presentation. So I 126 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: guess it's a strong connection with you why. 127 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting what you say about your why, 128 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: and that really shines through in your work that I've 129 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: seen of your work, that you are very connected to it. 130 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: And I feel connected to my why. But I still 131 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: have many moments and days and engagements where I'll be 132 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: doing speaking or something that requires me to be in 133 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: a certain state and I'll just be so in my 134 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: own head and focused on me and not on the audience. So, 135 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: practically speaking, how do you stay in touch with your 136 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: why when you know mentally you're struggling. 137 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: That such a good question. I think sometimes I have 138 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: to be honest, I don't always do it. I had 139 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 3: a corporate presentation for a group of people I won't 140 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: say where they're from, but before that, so I got 141 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 3: there at six in the morning because they were finishing 142 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 3: night shift and they'd been working since ten at night 143 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 3: and they were a group of tradees. And one of 144 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 3: them said to me as I was about to start, 145 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 3: and said, hell does this go for mate? And I 146 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 3: said it's an hour and he said, do it in 147 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: half an hour, and I just like walk off. Another 148 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: guy walked past and said, I just so now I'm 149 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: going to be sleeping through this, and another go I 150 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: can't repeat the language, but another guy was it was 151 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 3: just and I just thought, I don't want I don't 152 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: want to do this, like I just don't want to 153 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: be here. And it was awful, Like it went for 154 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: an hour, it felt like three hours for me, and 155 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: it was and there was no point where I was thinking, 156 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: come on, get in touch with you, hy, Why are 157 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: you doing this? You're trying to help someone. I just 158 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 3: I'm sure there were people there who In fact, I 159 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: know there were people there who needed it and by 160 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: the end were benefiting from it. But I was just 161 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 3: sinking the whole time. I just don't want to do this. 162 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: So there are times, and I don't want to make 163 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 3: it sound like every time I get up and perform 164 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: it's like I'm in touched with my wine. No matter what, 165 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 3: I can get through this. There are times when I 166 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: really struggle as well. There's a thing I do I've 167 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: noticed a lot, which again it's it's a subconscious thing. 168 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: I never deliberately sat down and went this is a 169 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: good thing to do. But before I present, I'll often 170 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 3: watch the people come in, and I'll watch their body language, 171 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: and I'll try and identify people that I think, again 172 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: to really it or really need it and really benefit 173 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: from it, and I sort of focus on them because 174 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: it's very easy to focus on people. I mean, I 175 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: don't know how relatable this is for people who don't present, 176 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: but you will see some people come in and you 177 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: can tell from the start they just don't want to 178 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: be that event. This is this is good work, you know, 179 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 3: corporate stuff. They've been told they have to do it, 180 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: and you can see them their body language and and 181 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: just going what is this about? And while am I 182 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: listening to this guy? Why am I going to listen 183 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,239 Speaker 3: to this guy? But then you can also see people 184 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: walk in who who you just know desperately need it, 185 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: and so I will focus on them before I get up, 186 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: and I just think this is fair. Yeah, I think 187 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 3: I often in my head, I'm almost like dedicating it 188 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 3: to a group of people in the audience that I 189 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: know will need it. I mean, it's a little bit 190 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 3: different when I'm doing the big sort of shows around 191 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: the country that I can't see anyone. It's like, but 192 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: everyone's bought tickets to that, so I'm assuming they want 193 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: to be there. So I'm pretty happy that I feel 194 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: like over that. But I think it's I think it's 195 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 3: just I'll identify people that really need it, I guess, 196 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: or I think they need it. 197 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: You're really great at storytelling, and I can imagine from 198 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: the type of work that you do, there probably stories 199 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: that you've told hundreds of hundreds of times, and I 200 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: imagine when you're creating new keynote, speaking or show material, 201 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure I think, you know, to 202 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: create new, great stories that are going to have an 203 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: equal amount of impact in some way. What's your process 204 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: for crafting a story and you know, thinking about the 205 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: key moments. 206 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: It's a lovely point you bring up, I think a 207 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 3: really important thing for anyone who presents as part of 208 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: their job, whether it's you know, you're doing PowerPoint presentations 209 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: at work. I know from doing this for you know, 210 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: three or four a day for the last ten years, 211 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 3: not every day Monday to Friday, that I don't do 212 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: it on the weekends, but I know from when I'm 213 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: doing my presentations and my talks the point that people 214 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 3: so people will lean forward and they listen when you're 215 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 3: telling stories. The second you start telling them statistics or 216 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: I'll give them practical strategies, that's when they get their 217 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 3: pen and payperunt start writing because they know they'll forget 218 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: that stuff. People don't forget stories. We love stories as 219 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 3: human beings. We love them and we listen. We don't 220 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: need No one's ever taken notes when I'm you know, 221 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 3: no one's saying, oh, his sister got sick when he 222 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 3: was fourteen, and then she went to hospital, and then 223 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 3: he went to India, and no one's taking notes for that. 224 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 3: But they're taking notes. So the more stories you can 225 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 3: put into any kind of presentation you're doing that, I 226 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: just it is the most engaging part. So stories are 227 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: crucial that they're just and that's what the Resilience Project 228 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 3: is built on. It's storytelling. That's all it is. We're 229 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 3: just story after story after story. This is going to 230 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: sound really strange. I don't and I know this is 231 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: an unusual way to do it. I don't really have 232 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: When something happens to me, I'll go and talk My 233 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 3: wife and I have the exact same sense of humor, 234 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: and so I'll go and tell my wife the story 235 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: of what happened during the day when something happens. So 236 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: with my phone, I've got a section which it says 237 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 3: talks podcasts and books, and if something happens, I'll just 238 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 3: what's a good example. I'm putting myself on the spot here. 239 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 3: Oh that's right. So yesterday when I went to get petrol, 240 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 3: the guy next to me, so the guy behind me, 241 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: asked someone else if they could fill up their petrol 242 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 3: tank when they went and did some shopping in the 243 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: and in the I was like, does that serious that? 244 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: He said, mate, I've got some shom He said, can 245 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 3: you fill up my tank while I'm just And the 246 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 3: guy was like, he's serious anyway, Yeah, can you just anyway? 247 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 3: I guess. So somehow got this guy to fill up 248 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 3: his petrol tank while he went to the shopping. Now 249 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: that may not feature in anything I do, podcast, book, 250 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 3: or but I think every single day stuff We all 251 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 3: see stuff that happens that is either funny or interesting 252 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 3: or weird or emotional or moving, or there was I 253 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: was on the way to work the other day and 254 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 3: there was a guy on Alexander Parade in Melbourne, which 255 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 3: is five lanes, and so that's a it's a pretty 256 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,599 Speaker 3: common place where people will wash your windscreen. Money for 257 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 3: wash your windscreen four money is what I meant to say. 258 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: And this guy was walking down the middle and everyone 259 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 3: was saying no to him, and I was like, I 260 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: felt really bad, but I didn't have any coins, so 261 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 3: I didn't want him to say no. I want to 262 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: tell him why. So I wound the window down and 263 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 3: I said and I said, sorry, matter, haven't haven't. I 264 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: haven't actually got any coins on me, and he didn't 265 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: hear me. So he came right over to me, said 266 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 3: so it was that, and his head was pretty much 267 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: almost like it was right at the window and the 268 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 3: window was down, and I, for some reason I wanted 269 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: to prove I didn't have coins, so I lift it 270 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: up the center console. I said, look, I don't have 271 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 3: any coins. I lifted it up, and sitting on top 272 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: of all the pile stuff was a twenty dollars note 273 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 3: and he looked at it and I looked at it, 274 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 3: and we said I looked at each other. It was 275 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: this really awkward thing, and I was like, I guess 276 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: I don't need this twenty dollars and so I gave 277 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 3: it to him. But the second the second I gave 278 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 3: it to him, tears just streaming down his face. And 279 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 3: he said, I will wash your windscreen twice. I said, no, no, 280 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 3: you don't it once. It's fine. He said, I will 281 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: wash it, and so anyway, he washed it thoroughly and 282 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: then he is I said that's enough, mane I'll do 283 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 3: it again. And he went around the other side of 284 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: the car and he covered it in soap and then 285 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 3: the lights went growing here and I said to beat me, 286 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 3: so I had to drive off his soap like my wish. 287 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 3: I couldn't see where it's going anyway. I just I 288 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: remember when I when I got home, I sort of 289 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 3: wrote that in my phone under talks. I put it 290 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 3: in I think potentially talks. Now. It may never pop 291 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 3: up in a talk, but I look over it every 292 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: couple of weeks. I look over the stories I've put 293 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 3: in there, or they're just under the headings, and just 294 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 3: think where could this work in the podcast setting for 295 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 3: them perfect? Could it work at a turk? Could it 296 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: work with my next book? I don't really know, but 297 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 3: I just have them there and I just think about them. 298 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: I tell Penny the stories and I sort of gauge 299 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: her reaction to see how she responds, because she's very honest. 300 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: And then if Penny laughs a lot, what happens is 301 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 3: they go into this part of my brain where this 302 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 3: is such a weird analogy. But for people who have 303 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 3: been to London before, you will know. If you're anywhere 304 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 3: near sort of Heathrow, planes will circle, they go around 305 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 3: in a circle, and then they're called in to land 306 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 3: and every I think it's every minute and a half. 307 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 3: I went to England play cricket. I remember playing at 308 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: a ground near Heathrow and for the whole day it 309 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 3: was like I said, Yeah, every ninety seconds a plane 310 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 3: will land, but you can see them circling London on 311 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: a clear day and they'll land. That's how I feel 312 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: like when I'm on stage. I have all these stories 313 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: just circling, and when it's appropriate, wh'le bring one of 314 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 3: them into bring what I'm into land. And I don't 315 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 3: know which stories I'm going to tell. I never know. 316 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 3: It's just looking at the audience or trying to feel 317 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 3: what the audience is into. I've got three or four 318 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 3: standard stories that I'll always open with, and they're all 319 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: very different stories, and I'll see which story resonates the 320 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 3: most with the audience. And then let's say it's the 321 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 3: story about a guy when I was doing a guy. 322 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: When I was doing a I was doing a zoom 323 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: presentation once and a guy tried to write a message 324 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 3: to his mate in the zoom. He accidentally had it 325 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: on public. There was four hundred traders in this presentation. 326 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 3: The guy said, hey, Johono, who does this poke? Remind 327 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 3: you of and we also knowing, ah shit, my look 328 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 3: alikes are never good. And I tried to move it 329 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: so I couldn't see Jono's answer, but Joe was really quick, 330 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 3: and Jhono wrote, this guy's a dead ringer for Steve BASHEMI. 331 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: I don't know if you know Steve Ami, but he's 332 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: famous for playing ugly people and that's his role. That's 333 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 3: what it says on Wikipedia's famous Yeah, villains and ugly people, 334 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: that's his role. So anyway, I saw that that's one 335 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 3: of my opening stories, and I will if that gets 336 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: a really good response. I've got a whole lot of 337 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: self deprecating still worries that I think this audience will 338 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: like there's a story about my sister's mental illness. And 339 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 3: if that seems to get like there's because there's there's 340 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 3: this noise people make when they respond to it's like 341 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: this oh, when they're really feeling that part of the story, 342 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: the heartbreak of that story, my sister's mental illness. If 343 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: I feel like that's really resonated with that group, I've 344 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 3: got a whole lot of stories that a lot, a 345 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: lot deeper than the Steve Masheen. You look alike, you know, 346 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: And I just have these stories that are I've written 347 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: them down, I've told the penny and if they pass 348 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 3: the Penny test, then they're in my brain somewhere and 349 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 3: I'll bring them in to land at the right time. 350 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 3: I guess now that's not a very relatable example. I 351 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: wouldn't recommend people do that. I've just had again to 352 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: use a flying reference, which I've never done ever before. 353 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 3: But I've had that many flying hours of being up 354 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: on stage presenting, you know, And I learned with kids, 355 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: which is it? Which is the toughest, the toughest audience 356 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: you'll you'll ever have. So it works with kids, and 357 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: now I can do that with adult it's a bit 358 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: a bit better. Gee, I'm giving you a long answers today, 359 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 3: hon Gosh. 360 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: That's amazing though, So you're not necessarily following a script 361 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: from beginning to end. 362 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: I never never I grew up watching I grew up 363 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: watching Billy Connolly, the Scottish comedian who mum and dad 364 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: were obsessed with him, and I realized they used him 365 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: as a way of I mean, with so much pain 366 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 3: and heartache in my family, with my sister's mental illness 367 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 3: when she was really sick in and out of hospital, 368 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: and the one thing that would make Mom and Dad 369 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: smile was Billy Connolly. We had these video cassettes and 370 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 3: would Mum and Dad would sick him in, probably once 371 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 3: or twice a week, and would sit on the couch 372 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 3: and I would watch him. And then I've watched Mom 373 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: and Dad and think, how is this possible? They were 374 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 3: in tears like an hour ago. Now they're in tears 375 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: a laughter. This guy's unbelievable, and his format was very 376 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 3: He'd get on stage and he just tells story after 377 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: story after story, and he often will get lost and 378 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 3: say what was I talking about? And he'll say, like, 379 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 3: don't why am I telling you this story? And they're 380 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 3: just things that pop into his head. So I grew 381 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: up on that, and I think, you know, from a 382 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: psychologists point of view, I just always wanted Mum and 383 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 3: Dad to feel happy. So I think I've mixed his 384 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: style because I just saw what he did for Mum 385 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: and Dad and I as a big fan of his. 386 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: I love how and when I go to his shows, 387 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: I think I don't know what he's going to say. 388 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,239 Speaker 3: He doesn't know what he's going to say, So this 389 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 3: is a unique experience, and so I've tried to mimic 390 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: that it's not overly relatable. I wouldn't recommend people get 391 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 3: out there and go, well, let's see what stories are. 392 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 3: I've done it for many years with because when I 393 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 3: started with primary school kids, I was this story, then 394 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 3: this story, then this story, and I use photos as 395 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 3: my people go, how do you remember all that stuff? 396 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 3: I use photos in the background, the photos of my 397 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 3: prompts to get me through. There's like there's a vague structure, 398 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 3: but yeah, it's for people who are going to spend 399 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: time presenting. I'd recommend when something happens too throughout. I mean, 400 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 3: every day something has you, you go home and you 401 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: tell your partner about something that happened. If it stands 402 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 3: out as something that was you know, could somehow relate 403 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 3: to what you talk about or what you're presenting about, 404 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 3: or your work or what you're interested in, just write 405 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 3: it down the note section on your phone and come 406 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 3: back and visit every now and again. Tell a story 407 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 3: to your partner or your housemates, or tell it to 408 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 3: your friends and see how it goes, and you'll get 409 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: better at telling it. You'll get better at telling. 410 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: It I want to talk about the imperfect Yeah, your podcast, 411 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: and I was saying to you before we started recording. 412 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: I've known of it for a while, but I only 413 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: first listened to it a couple of months ago, which 414 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: treated me to reach out because I love I've just 415 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: become obsessed with it. I think it's also I'm going 416 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: through the back catalog, so I'm not actually up to 417 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: date with the most recent releases. I highly recommend it, though, 418 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: And one of the things I've heard you say, which 419 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: I found really unusual because I don't have this as 420 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: an approach. Granted, topics are really different, Like you're talking 421 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: to your guests about really personal personal moments, moments where 422 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: they're they're sharing things that you know, I guess you 423 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: know are quite vulnerable, quite exposing for them things they 424 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: probably haven't talked about in many or any other places. 425 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: I would imagine in the work that they do. Where 426 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: do I talk about work and productivity? Lets less personal? 427 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: But you said that you will always meet up with 428 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: a guest that you don't know for a coffee before 429 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: I had. Can you tell me about that and that 430 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: initial coffee where you are I guess building that trust 431 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: and report. 432 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 3: I can give you a great example from yesterday. So 433 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 3: I caught up yesterday with Libby Trickett, the full time 434 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 3: gold medal swimming legend, and so she came down from 435 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: Brisbane and we I feel like with the stuff we 436 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 3: talk about, you know, I'm asking Libby to broadcast to 437 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 3: a lot of people her darkest moments in her toughest 438 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 3: and she spoke about some really full on stuff yesterday, 439 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 3: I feel like she needs to know that I really care. 440 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: I mean, I've never met her before, but I do 441 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 3: really care about her experience on our podcast. I do 442 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 3: care about her and how she comes across and the 443 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 3: whole experience for her. So I feel like an hour 444 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 3: we had lunch, No sorry, I had lunch by myself 445 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: because she came down from Brisbane and she's got three 446 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: girls and she was so excited to get away from 447 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: the house for the day. So she got there early, 448 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: had lunch by myself, sat there in this cafe in 449 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 3: Melbourne and just had and then I turned up outter. 450 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 3: She had a smoothie while I had lunch. But we 451 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 3: talked about a whole lot of stuff that we just built. 452 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 3: This really nice after She's got the most beautiful smile. 453 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 3: That's sort of what she was famous for, was this smile. 454 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: This like quintessential Aussie, you know, swimming blonde hair, this 455 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 3: lovely smile. It's it's such a I describe it. It's 456 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: like a very there's a word I'm trying to think of, 457 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 3: but I've had four and a half hours sleep last night. 458 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 3: Come to me during this podcast and coming down, I'll 459 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 3: just drop the word in disarming. Disarming. There you go. 460 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 3: It's just this like But anyway, in that hour, I 461 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 3: felt like we built this really nice rapport that when 462 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: we went and sat down and recorded and I asked 463 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: her about the darkest moments of pairing and her parenting 464 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: and her postoninal depression, it wasn't like I was doing 465 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: it for content. We had an hour It's not a 466 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 3: huge amount of time, but there was an hour of like, 467 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 3: I get a feel for what this person's like. He's 468 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 3: not doing this to have great content. He's doing this 469 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 3: because he wants other people to hear this story because 470 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 3: it will help other people. And I think people don't 471 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 3: sort of care, I said, old saying, but as a teacher, 472 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: it's always been friend of mine where people don't care 473 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 3: what you know until they know that you care. And 474 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm always trying to you know, the 475 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 3: first one I ever did it was a Missy Higgins 476 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: and caught up with Missy Higgins, and I was so 477 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 3: nervous because just such a huge Missy Higgins fan. But 478 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: I was I remember going there going I just wanted 479 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: to know that I'm not trying to get a story. 480 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to find I don't want us to 481 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: be a clickbait type interview. I don't. I just wanted 482 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 3: to know that this is coming from a very genuine 483 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 3: place and it's a safe place for her. So and 484 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 3: then when we caught up, it was the first interview 485 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 3: I've ever done in my life. I just remember during 486 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: the interview thinking, oh my gosh, I'm so glad we 487 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 3: caught up beforehand, because I would feel I would feel 488 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 3: a bit uncomfortable. She was sharing the stuff around her 489 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 3: anxiety and her depression just without like completely cold, never 490 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: met before. So I like, I do feel like it's 491 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 3: when you're having conversations like that, it's nice to have that. 492 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: What are you doing though practically to elicit that that comfort, 493 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: Oh great question those people have with you, And it's 494 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: funny because like I would just sort of comment because 495 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: we've been in a room together now for I don't know, 496 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: half an hour or something like that, and you're like, 497 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: you come across as a very sort of warm and 498 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: open kind of person, very naturally, and I imagine that 499 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: a lot of it is just simply how you are, 500 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: like unconscious. But if you were to unpack it practically, 501 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: what are you doing? 502 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 3: Okay, that's such a good question. I don't know. Let me, 503 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: I want to do yesterday with Libby. So with Libby yesterday, 504 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: I don't know. You'd have to ask her if this 505 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: is a good thing to do. But I talked at 506 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: her for the first fifteen minutes about how disastrously bad 507 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 3: my last two weeks have been, so I had it 508 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 3: as this. I went to So, I had a week 509 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: with the Queens and I start of Oriage team. I 510 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 3: was on their camp for their build up for State 511 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 3: of Origin one, which was a really exciting thing to do, 512 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 3: a bit like Ted last so I have no idea 513 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 3: about the sport though, So that was a bit of 514 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: a strange experience. But I then went flew to Newcastle 515 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 3: and then to Woo and Gong to do two shows, 516 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 3: and I've had this cyst on my eyelid for about 517 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 3: a month, and I keep thinking, when I have time, 518 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 3: I'll I'll go and see someone about it. But I 519 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: just haven't had time to go and get an appointment. Anyway. 520 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 3: I woke up having been away from home for a week. 521 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: Penny had COVID. Elsie, my daughter, had COVID. Penny was 522 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 3: eight months pregnant, and I wasn't overly popular fair enough 523 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 3: for not being at home, and I said I'll be 524 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 3: home in a few days. A few days and I 525 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 3: woke up in Sydney having done a Newcastle Sorry the 526 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 3: wooll Ongoing show the night before, and I couldn't open 527 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 3: my eye. It was stuck closed. I couldn't open it. 528 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: I said, what is going I literally was trying to 529 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 3: prize it open. I couldn't open it. I remember thinking, 530 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: I think this is bad, and live nation of my 531 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 3: touring that they look after me when I'm on tour, 532 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 3: and they have got this rock doctor who just like he, 533 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 3: just he I didn't even need to have appoint with it. 534 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 3: I took a photo of it like me trying mine, 535 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 3: sent it to him and next minute I've an appointment 536 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 3: with an ice specialist turned up with his eye specialist 537 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 3: who was on the way to play golf. He'd like 538 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 3: he was in his golf clothes, and he said, I'm 539 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 3: really sorry. I'm going to have to give you four 540 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 3: of the most painful injections you'll ever have in your 541 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 3: life into your eyelid. Oh my god, I'm not great 542 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 3: with pain. And I just my hand started shaking straight away. 543 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: And he said, and then I'm going to Now you 544 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: might have edit this out. I don't know, just in 545 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 3: case heads up if they haven't edited this out and 546 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 3: you're squirmish. Squirmish is out a word, squamish, squirmish. If 547 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 3: you squirmish, don't listen to this. He said, then I'm 548 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 3: going to turn your eyelid inside out, clamp it. I'm 549 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 3: going to get a I'm going to get a scalpel, 550 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: and I'm going to cut all the way along inside 551 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: of your eyelid and scrape everything out from him. So, 552 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 3: because all your glands are blocked up, I'm going to 553 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 3: scrape out your glands. And I said, ah, that sounds awful, 554 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 3: and he said it's extremely uncomfortable. And I said, I'm 555 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 3: going to do a show tonight. And he said, yeah, 556 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 3: I don't really care. I need to get this out now. 557 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 3: And so I went through the procedure. I had this said. 558 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: The first two injections into my I remember going, oh gosh, 559 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 3: that really hurt. And then he and I was like, 560 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 3: that's one of them. He's right, that is one of 561 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 3: the most and then he said, okay, so this next 562 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: one coming up inside your e. This is how this 563 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 3: is as bad as it gets. And it was and 564 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 3: I was trying to look away, but it's like and 565 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 3: he said, look, please look at the needle, please look 566 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: the net. Anyway, so why am I doing this story? 567 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 3: So he scrapes it out and does that, and then 568 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 3: I had an eye patch on all that afternoon. I 569 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: was in so much pain. Got on just before I 570 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 3: go on stage, I took the I took the the 571 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: eye patch off. Blood went everywhere, and as I go 572 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 3: on stage in Newcastleven cleaned my ead. I'm up on 573 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 3: stage and I'm thinking, oh, I don't feel well. I 574 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 3: feel quite sick, not like naises. I felt like aches 575 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 3: and pains and feverish. And I for some reason my 576 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: brain was like, it's because of what you went through today, 577 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 3: you're a bit traumatized. As I'm talking, I'm like, no, 578 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 3: I feel realistic, got off stage, went straight back to 579 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 3: the hotel. When wake up feeling so sick. How to 580 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 3: fly back to Melbourne. As I'm sitting at the airport, 581 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 3: I'm about to get on the plane, I went, hang 582 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: on a minute, Oh no, this could be COVID. And 583 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 3: I hadn't thought about it because I was so traumatized. 584 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 3: Miss I thing, and so I was like, if I 585 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 3: do it, hang on flies but everyone's getting on the plane. 586 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 3: I was like, I don't, I can't. There's no tests here. 587 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 3: How do I do a test? Is this your responsible 588 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 3: to get a plane here? Now I became I'll be fine, 589 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 3: it will not be COVID. Got on a plane, sneeze 590 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 3: the whole way with like I was wearing two masks, 591 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 3: poor lady. I get in the car and I did 592 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: a test when I got it on the way home, 593 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: and I had COVID. So Penny had COVID, Elsie had COVID. 594 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 3: I think Benji had COVID. I had COVID. We had 595 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 3: assessments for our Sun with his all this stuff he's 596 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 3: going through, and it was like the worst. God, this 597 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: is a long story again, but anyway, I told Livy 598 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 3: trigget this story right. Well, soon as we got there, 599 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 3: she said how I and I said, I've been better 600 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: and I told her that story. Looking back, it's not why, 601 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 3: but looking back on it, maybe it builds some kind 602 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: of like, oh, like something is empathy or just like 603 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 3: very keen always when I meet people to I'm worried 604 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 3: people have this persona of like, oh, he's been a 605 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 3: successful public speaker. He's like a very confident and successful 606 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: I don't that's not me. Like, I don't want people 607 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: to ever think that. I don't want people to think 608 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 3: I want a pedestal. Ever, I don't ever think I'm 609 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 3: you know, I don't look at myself and go, wow, 610 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 3: what a successful person. I don't think that. I don't 611 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 3: I want people to know that. And I think I'll 612 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: tell people about my failures a lot of my stuff 613 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 3: ups and my hardships, and I think that maybe builds empathy. 614 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. But anyway, we got on really well. 615 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 3: She shared some stories of stuff that she was struggling with. 616 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 3: So again I'm doing to make a very long story short. 617 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 3: I think being vulnerable with people. I'm so sorry about 618 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: about that. Be vulnerable with people. That's how you do it. 619 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 3: See it. When we caught up, we talked about how 620 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 3: hard we find parenting, the struggles of parenting. I remember 621 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 3: catching up with I was Travis Poke, the a footballer, 622 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: and we we I mean I actually did already know him, 623 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 3: but we caught up just to talk about it before anyway, 624 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 3: and it was either zooms just during lockdown, but we 625 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 3: talked about Travis's dadd had passed away, and we just 626 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 3: talked about that a lot, and I just listened. Mainly 627 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 3: I can't relate to that, but it's vulnerabilities, so connecting. 628 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: It reminds me. 629 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: I heard Tim Ferris talk about how he starts. 630 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: His uh his like interviews. 631 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: This is like before he hits record, and he said 632 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: he'll deliberately share something that shows vulnerability to build that 633 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: instant rapport with So that's that's interesting. 634 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: But I think it's what I've done throughout my entire life, 635 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 3: I think, and I don't know where I learned it, 636 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 3: but I feel like I've always I feel like it's 637 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: just a deeply connecting thing. I've always shared way too much. 638 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 3: Whatever's in my heart, I just share with everyone all 639 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: the time, and I think that's a struggle right now 640 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: with what we're going through with our son going through 641 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 3: getting assessments done for what he's struggling with, and my 642 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 3: wife saying, this is not We're not You're not sharing this, 643 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 3: you know, And I was like, yeah, no, you're right, 644 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: this is his story one day to tell, but it's 645 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 3: so and I so want to share it, but it's not. 646 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 3: He's his story, so I'm not going to share it. 647 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: But but I have this instinct to want to share everything. 648 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 3: I'm finding difficult. I don't know, but it's worked, especially 649 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 3: with what we do professionally. What I do professionally. 650 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can relate to that. 651 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: Something I think about quite a lot having been through 652 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: a divorce, and there's obviously two sides to every divorce. 653 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: Is I want to share openly, but also I want. 654 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: To be very respectful of my ex and. 655 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: Also going you know, like one day, like Frankie has 656 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: no interest in my podcast, even though I try to 657 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: tell her it's amazing and it will help her at 658 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: school in year three. But I always I really struggle 659 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: with that because I feel like you don't hear too 660 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: many people who have some kind of a platform talking 661 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: about something as horrible as going through a divorce, and 662 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: I feel like I've learned so many lessons, but then 663 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: I'm always I'm kind of censoring myself, going what's appropriate 664 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: and what's not appropriate? 665 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 2: How do you well? 666 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 3: I've failed with that quite a few times. I've been 667 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 3: pulled up by a few people. It's an awful feeling. 668 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 3: But as a couple of examples, I would tell a 669 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 3: story about a really well on individual who heard me 670 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 3: speak and had their back turned to me for a 671 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 3: lot of it. And I was sharing that story and 672 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 3: someone come up from their workplace and said, as a sportsperson, 673 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 3: said that is someone professional you're going to invite into 674 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 3: our workspace and you're sharing a story about And I 675 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: get why you don't, but it's unprofessional. And I thought, gosh, 676 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 3: that's so true. I used to just it was a 677 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: throwaway line I just had about an ex partner of 678 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 3: mine about it was just a joke I was making 679 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 3: about how I used to do whatever she wanted because 680 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: she was the boss and so. And someone came up 681 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 3: to me and they didn't know my ex, but I said, 682 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: I think that's really unfair. I think it's really unfair 683 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: that you said that, and I was I hated that feedback, 684 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 3: and I said, I was thinking, what an idiot. Look, 685 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 3: it's none of their business. I don't get what the 686 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 3: point was. It's just a joke. I'm but I stopped 687 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: saying it, and I realized it's because deep down I 688 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: actually realized that were right and I agreed with them. 689 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: And so that is a delicate one for me, and 690 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 3: that I will. I worked with a lot of sports 691 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: people who'll share their stories with me, and I think 692 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 3: I can't think, oh my gosh, this should help so 693 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 3: many kids if I could share this. And early on 694 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 3: when I was doing this stuff, I just told their 695 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 3: stories like I would just I would say, I've been 696 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: working with this person and they've been going through this. 697 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 3: I wouldn't tell the details of it, but like a 698 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 3: very high level version of this person struggles with depression. 699 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 3: And then and then someone said to me once, oh, 700 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 3: that's so nice for them to give you permission to 701 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 3: share that story, and I thought, oh geez, and I went, yeah, 702 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: it's really nice. And I thought, nah, do you know 703 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 3: what they never did? And I just went and said 704 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 3: like and again, I didn't give way too much. And 705 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 3: I think I don't even I didn't even say the 706 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 3: person I said to who they played for. And I a 707 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 3: really well known player. It was almost obvious who it was. 708 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 3: And I felt like that was me instead of hiding 709 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 3: your identity. But I wasn't really, so I filed at 710 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 3: that a lot. And I think I've I remember I've 711 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 3: seen a psychologist. Well I did a lot. I haven't 712 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 3: for a while, but I need to with a third 713 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 3: child coming up. And I spoke to her about that 714 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 3: at length, and I said, I'm really struggling with this. 715 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 3: I have the great stories that I know will help people, 716 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 3: but there are other people's stories. And she said, what 717 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 3: you need to do is imagine that person's in the 718 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 3: audience and how would they feel? She said, it's as 719 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 3: simple as that. Because some of the people I can't 720 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 3: ask for permission because I don't I won't ever see them, 721 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: agin Ye. Someone can't to me after a talk and 722 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 3: say share their story and I'll think, oh my gosh, 723 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 3: just extraordinary. But I don't have their details to cat say, 724 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 3: do you mind if I share that? And she said, well, 725 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: just picture they were there watching you. How would they 726 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 3: feel about are they comfort with your sharing that story? 727 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 3: And that's kind of what I've used, and it's changed 728 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 3: the way I present massively. Because I had a lady 729 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 3: come up to me. That's how I opened my second 730 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 3: book with the story. A lady came up to me 731 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 3: after one of my shows at the Convention Center, which 732 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 3: is a bit like twenty eight hundred people, and I 733 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 3: was doing a book signing for my first book, and 734 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 3: there was a lady waiting in the queue, and she 735 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: had six young adults here with her and it was 736 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 3: her turn. She said, you guys wait here, and she 737 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 3: came up to me and she just started crying and 738 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 3: she said, I had my last round of chemo today, 739 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 3: and she said, I don't have long left. I don't 740 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 3: have long left. But I brought my three kids and 741 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 3: their partners because I want them to embrace this stuff 742 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 3: when I'm no longer with them. Can you please sign 743 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 3: these books and tell them how much I love them 744 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: all as a really and I gave her really had 745 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 3: a long and very silent hug. She was very frail. 746 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 3: There wasn't much of her and her hair was literally 747 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 3: falling out. You know, in the book, when I sign it, 748 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: I remember and I didn't get I didn't get her details. 749 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 3: I never she just left and I remember think, I 750 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 3: don't even know her name, and it was it was 751 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 3: such a vulnerable moment that so I felt so connected 752 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 3: to her, and it inspired me to I was pretty 753 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 3: good in two thousand and nineteen. I was so exhausted 754 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 3: at that point, but it just gave me so much 755 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 3: energy to keep going, knowing that it reaches people like that. Anyway, 756 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 3: I wrote that story up for my second book, and 757 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 3: I had this long thing of like do I I 758 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 3: don't have a mission to share the story. It's a 759 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: very moving story. Her kids might read this. I don't 760 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 3: know if they're going to read the book is this? 761 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 3: And I had this to my psychologist that just pretend 762 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 3: she's going to read this, she must be like she 763 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 3: might read so right in a way that she would 764 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 3: be very proud of. And so I wrote it that way. 765 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 3: And then amazingly, six months later I got a the 766 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 3: Resilience Project and an email of the blue from her daughter. 767 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 3: He had read it and just said, I just want 768 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 3: to let you know very tragically, Mum passed away three 769 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 3: months ago, just before you book came out. We had 770 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 3: tickets for your large later show and gelong but we 771 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 3: couldn't go, but thank you for sharing mum's story in 772 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 3: the way that you did. And she turns out, this 773 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 3: lady's an incredible woman. Incredible she set up life surf, 774 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 3: life saving programs for disabled kids all around Australia, and she 775 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 3: was in a remarkable woman. But again, long story. But 776 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 3: I think for me, it's about pretending those people in 777 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 3: the audience. And when I pretend my ex was in 778 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 3: the audience, I went, no, she would hate this story. 779 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 3: It's so unfair to her because I'm sure there was 780 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 3: a reason she was like that a lot of the time. 781 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 3: You know, I need to be I'd needed someone to 782 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: really sort of control me. So yeah, anyway, but again 783 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 3: long answer. 784 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: We will be back with you in a moment talking 785 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: about how he built the Resilience Project to having almost 786 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: half a million school students doing his curriculum, and we 787 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: will dig into what some of the major turning points 788 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: were on that path to growth. If you're looking for 789 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: more tips to improve the way that you work, I 790 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things 791 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from 792 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: software and gadgets that I'm loving through to interesting research findings. 793 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 1: You can sign up for that at Howiwork dot com. 794 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: That's how I Work dot co. I want to talk 795 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: about the Resilience Project, which is your business. And you 796 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: were saying before you've got four hundred and fifty thousand 797 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: students across Australia doing the Resilience Project curriculum, and then 798 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: you've probably got an equal sized number of people working 799 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: in corporates doing the curriculum. And you started the business. 800 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 1: Was it twelve or thirteen years ago? 801 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 3: It's hard to answer the question because I didn't even so. 802 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 3: I have no idea about business. I have absolutely no idea. 803 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 3: I'm the least business he type person to ever come across. 804 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: I really have no idea. But so when I started 805 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 3: a business, I didn't even know that's what I was doing. 806 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 3: I said, I want to stop teaching. I'm going to 807 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 3: go and do talks at schools. And people say you're 808 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 3: doing your own business. I go, I know, no, I'm 809 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 3: doing that. I'm doing talks at schools. I didn't even 810 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 3: get I didn't even know it to get an ABN. 811 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 3: I didn't understand that. I didn't so very steep learning curve. 812 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 3: But I You're sorry, I interrupted while you ask the question, 813 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 3: So what. 814 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 2: Year was that? What year did you start not a business? 815 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 3: Two? Twenty eleven was my Yeah, twenty eleven I started 816 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 3: turning up to schools and trying to do talks basically 817 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 3: and talking. 818 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so eleven years ago. 819 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm so impressed, having heard of the Resilience Project and 820 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: having read about the work that you do, that you've 821 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 1: grown to the scale that you have with a relatively 822 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: small team over a relatively short period of time. And 823 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: I'd love to know what we're what were the major 824 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: turning points or tipping points that you can kind of 825 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: attribute back to doing something that got to the next 826 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: step you like, of growth. 827 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. So I think a lot of people look at 828 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 3: it and think, gosh, it's just this huge overnight success. 829 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 3: It's just massive, and it's in everywhere. But the first 830 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: three years were lonely, really lonely, and there was quite 831 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 3: a few times I tried to get out and tried 832 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 3: to applied for jobs elsewhere because I was just I 833 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 3: hated how lonely it was just me, and there were 834 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 3: so many no's and not many yeses, and it was 835 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 3: just so many setbacks after setback and stuffed up so 836 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 3: many times. I remember there's one point where I was thinking, 837 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 3: I'm pretty much done. I've been a year and a 838 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 3: half and I only had five school's booked for the year, 839 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 3: and it was just literally five presentations for the sitting 840 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 3: around at home in this like tiny bedroom in Fitzroy, 841 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 3: I can't afford rent, and I'm just thinking, what on 842 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 3: earth am I doing. I was doing a lot of 843 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 3: emergency teaching to try and pay the bills, which is 844 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 3: of any emergency teachers listening. It's a horrible existence, it 845 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 3: really is. And so it was quite down. But the 846 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 3: biggest school in Victoria, worry Hallarbrey College, said would you 847 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 3: come and speak to all our year twelves And I said, 848 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 3: We've got three different canvasses and you know this goes well, 849 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 3: we might roll out to other year levels. Huge opportunity, 850 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 3: and I booked it in and I spent the whole 851 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 3: week preparing it, and I was so excited about it, 852 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 3: and I was thinking this is I was doing all 853 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 3: these things of like cover with the hour come of it. 854 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 3: You know this will be my moment like oh well, 855 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 3: this will be the moment that I look back on 856 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 3: and go I really made it work from this day on, 857 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 3: and hailar Re signed on and all the other schools did. 858 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 3: And I remember sitting in my bedroom at my desk 859 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 3: pretending I didn't have much to do at this point. 860 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 3: But the day before the talk and I got a 861 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 3: phone call from this guy is named Nick. I'll never 862 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 3: forget him. And the second I answered the phone, I 863 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 3: knew it was bad because I could hear hundreds of kids' 864 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 3: voices in the background. And he said, okay, he just 865 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 3: wanted you far off. We're just how far away? And 866 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 3: I said I'm sorry as in for the presentation. He 867 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 3: said yeah, And I said, I so I was in tomorrow. 868 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 3: We're good for tomorrow. And he laughed and said, no, 869 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 3: it's eriously how far off are you? I said, I've 870 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 3: got in my car. I'm not joking out my counts tomorrow. 871 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 3: And he said, you are effing kidding me. And he said, 872 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 3: I've got three campuses bussed to a location here. You 873 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 3: telling me you're not coming. I said I can be 874 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 3: there in and I could get there in an hour 875 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 3: and he said the bus is leaving an hour, mate, 876 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 3: And he said, that's right. I don't wake up what 877 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 3: to do with fifteen hundred kids. Thanks mate, and you 878 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 3: hung out. And I had never felt so sick in 879 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 3: my entire life. It is the worst. And I was 880 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 3: just and I looked in the emails and he was 881 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 3: right and stuffed up, but it was with my mistake completely. 882 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 3: And then amazingly he called me his god Nick called me, 883 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 3: and that was Nick Froyanny called me later that night 884 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 3: to just say, look, it's fine. We got by. We're 885 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 3: not gonna be able to reschedule it, obviously, but we did. 886 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 3: It's okay, thank you anyway, and I'm sorry to He 887 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 3: was really really lovely guy. He was very forgiving, and 888 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 3: I just, oh, was so down, and I just said, well, 889 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 3: that's it. If I can't even book in the right date, 890 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 3: this is not for me. And so then I tried 891 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 3: to find other jobs but couldn't even get another job 892 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 3: at the point and at that time, and so things 893 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 3: that that happened, but that prompted me to find to straate. 894 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 3: I go, I need someone to organize me, because this 895 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 3: is not I only got four buddy talks for you, 896 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 3: and I couldn't even turn up to one of them. 897 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 3: So as soon as I could afford it, I found 898 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 3: a PA person or like they're very hard to find 899 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 3: really good admin people. But I've take me a long time. 900 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 3: I've got the best in the world now in Sarah. 901 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 3: But all the way along, what kept gim me going 902 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 3: was that I loved when I was up in front 903 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 3: of people presenting, and I knew that it was There's 904 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 3: a lot of things in the world I'm not good, 905 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 3: so many things I'm not good at, but I know 906 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 3: that I'm that I can do, and whenever I did it, 907 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 3: I've got this feeling of like, these people love this, 908 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 3: It's gonna work, It's gonna work. I again, I was 909 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 3: still three years in thinking this is probably not gonna work. 910 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 3: And I was outside of school about to go in 911 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 3: and do emergency teaching. And I've been up since five 912 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 3: in the morning waiting for the phone for the ring 913 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 3: to say this is the school you're going to, And 914 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 3: I'm sitting out of school that I hated going to. 915 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 3: I just hated it. I had that feeling like when 916 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 3: I was a kid not wanting to go to school. 917 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 3: It was like that in the car going and you 918 00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 3: get paid two hundred and fifty dollars for the day 919 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 3: to work, so unbelievably hard as emergency teacher. And as 920 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 3: I'm I was just about to turn my phone off 921 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 3: my phone rang I was literally getting it open to 922 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 3: like turn off, and this lady range she said, Hi, 923 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 3: I don't know what you talk about. I'm at a 924 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 3: conference in Ararat. I've got fifty principles here. The keynote 925 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 3: spare gusn't turned up. My friend gave me a number. 926 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 3: Could you be here within an hour? And I said 927 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 3: I can bet he an hour and a half and 928 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,479 Speaker 3: she said no way. And I went into the school 929 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 3: and said, sorry, I can't make it today even though 930 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 3: I'm here right now. And they said you I never 931 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 3: welcome back again. And I said that's fair. I totally 932 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 3: understand that, but I need to do this. And I 933 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 3: went to this and I went to this conference and 934 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 3: I was fifty principles. And I got up there and thought, well, 935 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 3: this is it like this, this is quite literally make 936 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 3: or break for me. This doesn't work. I'm never going 937 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 3: to this will never work. And it was I had 938 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 3: my phone in my back pocket and it was buzzing 939 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 3: the whole way through, and it was people sending me 940 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 3: emails from the audience booking in for me to come 941 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 3: and speak at the school, and we booked in forty 942 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 3: eight out of the fifty schools in the next In 943 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 3: the next week, forty eight of the fifty Principles booked 944 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 3: their schools in So then from a school point of view, 945 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 3: it was on and it was it was hectic, and 946 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 3: it was very stressful, and it was all of a sudden, 947 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 3: But I wasn't going to complain because I had this 948 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 3: other problem, which was I'm too busy all of a sudden. 949 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 3: Three years in and then about probably two years later, 950 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 3: I remember a guy I was at cricket when I 951 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 3: was playing cricket and a guy I come up to 952 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 3: me and he was one of the dads from from 953 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 3: the team I'm playing. And he introduced himself and he's 954 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 3: a lovely guy and he said, was Brian feeling where 955 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 3: That's what I did? And I said, I trained people 956 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 3: in resilience. He said, you should come to a workplace 957 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 3: and I'd love you. And I said, I was not 958 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 3: really for adults, it's for kids. And I said where 959 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 3: do you work and he said, oh, the Melbourne Storm 960 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 3: And I thought he meant the staff there and he said, no, no, 961 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,359 Speaker 3: the players. I said, oh, I don't watch rugby league. 962 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 3: I'm an AFL person and he said it doesn't matter. 963 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 3: And I said, I'm not really sure this is going 964 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 3: to work, and he said, well it doesn't work, it 965 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 3: doesn't work, just try it at least. And I remember 966 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 3: getting there about a week later and I'm the biggest 967 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 3: man I've ever seen in my entire life turn up 968 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 3: and they sit there in five minutes in Billy slid Up, 969 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 3: who's one of the greast players of all time, stopped me. 970 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 3: He said, mate, this is fucking amazing. Keep going. And 971 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 3: I said I wasn't going to stop, but they they 972 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 3: get it. I remember that point going this is interesting, 973 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 3: like these boys are loving this. And the next week 974 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 3: I went back. They said come back next week to 975 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 3: another presentation and the head of well being for the 976 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 3: NRL was there and he was in the back road 977 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 3: I didn't know who was introduced himself at the end 978 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 3: and he said, can you do this at every single club? 979 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 3: I want a talk for all the staff, all the players, 980 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 3: the under twenties on the right ends under sixties so 981 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 3: and all the partners. I need five percent six presentations 982 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 3: at every club in the next six months. Can you 983 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 3: do it? That was a turning point. That's where all 984 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 3: of a sudden it became elite. Sport is five percent 985 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 3: of what I do, but it's one hundred percent of 986 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,959 Speaker 3: the publicity that I get. So you know, the start 987 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 3: of I did hundreds of interviews about state of origin 988 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 3: and it's a week of my year, that's it. So 989 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 3: that was a big turning point. And then when I 990 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 3: have enough, what I found was whenever I all of 991 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 3: a sudden, I went from having no money to all 992 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 3: of a sudden's a fair bit of money in the 993 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 3: business account and I thought, wow, this is good, this 994 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 3: is I need this. I haven't earned money in a 995 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 3: couple of years, and it was instant because I don't 996 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 3: have a business frame. But I thought, I think I 997 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 3: need to put this back into the to take the 998 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 3: next step. And that's why I started employing people. And 999 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 3: I always thought to myself, get people who are heaps 1000 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,479 Speaker 3: better than you, like just and not having an ego 1001 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 3: was like putting parking are ego. I found a CEO 1002 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 3: whose name is Ben Wadman, and he's extraordinary and his 1003 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 3: I mean I basically gave the control over to him. 1004 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 3: I said, do what do what you ove it to you? 1005 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 3: You run this business, told me where to go and talk. 1006 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 3: I'll go and talk there, call me and you want 1007 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 3: support this stuff, but this is your business effectively. And 1008 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 3: I handed over to him because he's much better a 1009 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 3: running businesses than I am. And he's done, and he's 1010 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 3: the reason that when COVID happened, we didn't struggle. We 1011 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 3: actually went to the whole new level because we were 1012 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 3: such a diverse business that all we could We had 1013 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 3: digital presentations for schools, we had journals, we had you know, 1014 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 3: because when he started, he said, it's if you get sick, 1015 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 3: we don't have a business, so we need to diversify. 1016 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 3: And I'd never thought of that. I just thought, I'll 1017 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 3: never get sick. What are you talking about? And there'll 1018 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 3: never be a situation where I can't just turn up 1019 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 3: and present to people, and I'll never be too tired 1020 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 3: from doing that. But he diversified us. I've got another 1021 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,439 Speaker 3: speaker who's much better presented than I am for kids. 1022 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 3: He's just extraordinary. Na's Martin Hepple. So I think not 1023 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 3: having an ego is I mean, we've all got an ego, sorry, 1024 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 3: but being able to park your ego and just hand 1025 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 3: over control. I think a lot of people struggle with 1026 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 3: that when it's their own thing. But I just the 1027 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 3: second old hand that i'ven go and it'll be different, 1028 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 3: it'll look different to what you probably deep down feel 1029 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 3: like it should, and we disagree better. And I disagree 1030 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 3: on a lot of stuff all the time. But I 1031 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 3: heard the episode you had with was it David Siegel? 1032 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 3: He was saying how important that is that that you disagree? 1033 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 3: And it was interesting listening to that. Actually, I was thinking, Yeah, 1034 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 3: that is one of our strengths. We disagree, and often 1035 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 3: we find this middle ground, which is probably the best 1036 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 3: place to be, you know, the best place to come to, 1037 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 3: rather than it being strongly based a decision based on 1038 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 3: what my gut feelers, what his gut feelers, you know. 1039 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 3: So again there's a long answer, but I think the 1040 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,879 Speaker 3: turning points for me have been those little key moments 1041 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 3: where all of a sudden I've opened up to a 1042 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 3: different audience. But also when I've found people who are 1043 00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,920 Speaker 3: much better at may at certain things. I mean, the 1044 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 3: finance person, my gosh, Helen, their accountant. I mean, I 1045 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 3: don't know, I have any idea about this stuff, and 1046 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 3: I just completely trust her to do it all and 1047 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 3: she's unbelievable. And yeah, so just just finding people who 1048 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 3: are better than you basically and letting them go and 1049 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 3: giving them full autonomy to do their job. Controlling them. 1050 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 3: I think that's an ego thing I really do. If 1051 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 3: you're going to expand your business, it's going to look 1052 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 3: a bit different. It just will, and it's going to 1053 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 3: feel different. And it may not have your Diana, I 1054 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 3: will have your dnail over it, but it's going to 1055 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 3: start to present publicly a little bit differently at some point. 1056 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 3: And that's if you want to grow. That's just going 1057 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 3: to happen. So find good people that you trust and 1058 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 3: give them control, give them autonomy, and let them go 1059 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 3: for it. And that's been really powerful for me. 1060 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: I was saying before we started recording, I'm a little 1061 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: bit obsessed with forming friendships as an adult, and friendship 1062 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: is something that I take very very seriously, and I've 1063 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 1: even developed frameworks in my own personal life that are 1064 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: very geeky about how I can categorize friendships. 1065 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 3: Which which helps me awesome. 1066 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 2: It's awesome. 1067 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: It's very geeky, but it helps me make sure I'm 1068 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: investing enough time in the friendships that matter, which I 1069 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 1: think can be easy to let slip when. 1070 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 2: When you're a parent and you know you're working, you've 1071 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 2: got other stuff going on. 1072 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,359 Speaker 1: I've loved the episodes of The Imperfect where you've talked 1073 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,640 Speaker 1: about male friendship, which I find comes up as a 1074 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,439 Speaker 1: bit of a theme in some of. 1075 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 3: Your absolutely does. 1076 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: Yeah again, I'm sure this happens very naturally for you, 1077 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: although you do talk about the awkwardness as well of 1078 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: forming new. 1079 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 2: Friendships, particularly with men. 1080 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,240 Speaker 1: I feel like maybe it happens more easily for women 1081 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: forming new friendships with women. But if you were to 1082 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: unpack it, like what with the deliberate things that you 1083 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: were doing with some of the newer friendships that you formed, 1084 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: Like with your co host Ryan, you have a lovely friendship. 1085 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, we have. He's a way and I messaged him 1086 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 3: last side and said, I really miss having you around 1087 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 3: and I miss the comfort I have of knowing I'm 1088 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 3: going to see you tomorrow the next day. I really 1089 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 3: miss that. So that's one thing, like telling people how 1090 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 3: you feel about him is really powerful. I took for 1091 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 3: granted I played sport for I played cricket from the 1092 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 3: age of since I could walk till I was thirty six. 1093 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 3: And when you played a sporting club, you have automatically 1094 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 3: have forty friends. You see him three times a week, 1095 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 3: you love being around me, have a very similar interest 1096 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 3: and you just have those friends. And then there's their partners. 1097 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 3: All of a sudden, you've got like you know, when 1098 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 3: I went to England, it was an incredible experience. I 1099 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 3: went to play cricket. There was forty people at the club, 1100 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 3: half of them had partners. All of a sudden, I've 1101 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 3: got sixty friends. Amazing and I always looked out for Granted, 1102 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 3: now I don't play cricket, and I yes. So it's 1103 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 3: like you now exactly what you said before. It's like, oh, 1104 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 3: if I want to make friends, there's no where, there's 1105 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,360 Speaker 3: no place that I'm obliged to be three times a 1106 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,239 Speaker 3: week and spend time with them getting to know them. 1107 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 3: So you actually have to make the time, which is 1108 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 3: a weird thing when you don't really have much time 1109 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 3: as an adult. So Ryan Shelton I've always looked up 1110 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 3: to and admired so much. I think he's one of 1111 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,359 Speaker 3: the funniest people in Australia. And I would see him 1112 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 3: around the place because we used to live pretty close 1113 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 3: and one day I went up to him and just 1114 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 3: said I he was in a cafe and I went 1115 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 3: sat way too close to him to try and make 1116 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 3: it look like but there was no one else at there, 1117 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 3: like it was just so silly, and I pretended I 1118 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 3: turned and I said, oh God, I just want to 1119 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 3: let you know that. And this is true. I said, 1120 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 3: when I'm not feeling good, it's very hard for me 1121 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 3: to do. For me to do my job, I have 1122 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 3: to feel happy to do my job. And I will 1123 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 3: often sit in the car and watch your Instagram videos 1124 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,720 Speaker 3: to cheer me up. And then which is a true story. 1125 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 3: And I told him that, which I think is a 1126 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 3: very again in vulnerability, Like it's a pretty vulnerable thing 1127 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,759 Speaker 3: to add another man, like you really have a big 1128 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 3: impact on my life, and I want to let you 1129 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 3: know that as opposed to I'm a really big fan 1130 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,839 Speaker 3: of what you do. I guess I think I's still 1131 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,880 Speaker 3: a vulnerable thing to do. But anyway, I was very 1132 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 3: nervous when I do it. He could tell I was 1133 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 3: very nervous, and he said, oh, what do you do? 1134 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 3: And I didn't want to make it sound like I 1135 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 3: was trying to talk about myself, so I said I'd 1136 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 3: go to schools and do talks. But anyway, I love 1137 00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 3: what you do. And he said, wow, what do you 1138 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 3: talk about? And we it was a five minute conversation 1139 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 3: and I posted I took a photo with him, and 1140 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:05,560 Speaker 3: I said to him, my wife would love it. I 1141 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 3: took a photo with you. It was for mate, and 1142 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 3: I put it on Instagram. I tag him and he 1143 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 3: followed me. And I didn't hear fro him for three 1144 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 3: years and out of nowhere, three years later, he messaged 1145 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 3: me out of the blum and said, would you like 1146 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 3: to have coffee tomorrow? I just want to pick your 1147 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 3: brain on something. He was going through some stuff in 1148 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 3: his own life which we talked about in our podcast, 1149 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 3: which was a bit of jealous of jealousy stuff around 1150 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 3: his best mate, Hamish Blake, who is Australia's most popular man, 1151 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 3: and we talked about that and we just had this 1152 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,480 Speaker 3: from It was the most vulnerable conversation I've had from 1153 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 3: the standing start in my life. Like he just sat 1154 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 3: down and I was ready to exchange pleasantries and I 1155 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 3: wasn't even going to do my thinking of being like 1156 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,239 Speaker 3: self deprecating and vulnerable. I was just I was just 1157 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 3: in awe of this person and he said, I'm just 1158 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 3: struggling with this, this and this, and we talked about it, 1159 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 3: and after we caught up, he gave me a hug 1160 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 3: and I'm sporting clubs is like shake the hand or 1161 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 3: a fist pump and then you go on your mate, 1162 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 3: good stuff. It was a hug and I was like, 1163 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,840 Speaker 3: cross that was I didn't say that coming in. I 1164 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,680 Speaker 3: was that was really nice. And then we just catching 1165 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,759 Speaker 3: up and catching up and every conversation we had there 1166 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 3: were quite vulnerable conversations about Then I started sharing stuff 1167 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 3: and then the podcasts come about, which is a long 1168 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 3: story which I won't do today, becau I've reready told 1169 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 3: you enough long stories. But then what emerged The podcast 1170 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 3: is meant to be about sharing well, really famous people's 1171 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 3: struggle so we can all feel like we relate. And 1172 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,320 Speaker 3: it happens to that person that I'm okay, I'm not alone. 1173 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 3: I've had a few people message me and say, what 1174 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 3: I'm taking from your podcast, It's more about friendship. And 1175 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 3: I'm watching this this because my brother's now involved in 1176 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 3: the podcast. Who's my best mate? But our friendship is 1177 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,080 Speaker 3: our relationship has become so much stronger. Ryan and Josh 1178 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 3: have become extremely close. Ryan and I become even closer, 1179 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 3: and it's because we just have this space where we 1180 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 3: just talk really honestly about how we're going with stuff. 1181 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,560 Speaker 3: And if ever someone and it's weird, it's a weird. 1182 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 3: It wasn't the podcast. We wouldn't do it like we're 1183 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 3: sort of, which is where Ryan said to me the 1184 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 3: other day, said, I feel really sorry for people who 1185 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 3: don't have podcasts where they can't talk openly with their 1186 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 3: friends about stuff, because so we invited Hamis spake on 1187 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,560 Speaker 3: the podcast is Best Friend, and we're having a conversation 1188 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 3: about self doubt, and Hamish is talking about how he 1189 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,760 Speaker 3: still self doubt and I thought, gosh, that's really interesting. 1190 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 3: But then I asked him about I asked him about 1191 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,759 Speaker 3: how when we'd met a many years back, hour it 1192 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 3: was a very I tried to talk to him in 1193 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,880 Speaker 3: a cafe and I got so nervous. I completely stuffed 1194 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 3: it up and it was so embarrassing, and he actually 1195 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,840 Speaker 3: remembered it. And then we had through Ryan had just 1196 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,760 Speaker 3: become friends. And Ryan said, I'm just going to say something. 1197 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,760 Speaker 3: I feel a little bit funny about this friendship between 1198 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:31,239 Speaker 3: you two. I'm feeling weird about it because you both 1199 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,359 Speaker 3: love cricket, you both love exercise, you messaging each other 1200 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,359 Speaker 3: all the time about your exercise. I feel a little 1201 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 3: bit left out of this and I can't offer anything 1202 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,840 Speaker 3: on that topic. And hamish Or straight away said to him, like, 1203 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,360 Speaker 3: when you have a second child, it doesn't mean you 1204 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 3: have less child less love for the first child. You 1205 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,680 Speaker 3: find this new love. He said, No one can have 1206 00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,359 Speaker 3: my Ryan love. No one can have that human I've 1207 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 3: got something different to talk to exercise. I talk about him. 1208 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,400 Speaker 3: There's things that I can't talk to you about that 1209 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,120 Speaker 3: I talked to you about. And ryan'stro went, that's just 1210 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 3: so true. What Ryan did, which I've learned about with friendships, 1211 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,560 Speaker 3: is that he spoke his truth. There's this thing called 1212 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,439 Speaker 3: truth verse harmony, which you obviously we probably know about, 1213 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,200 Speaker 3: but if you choose. So often we choose harmony in 1214 00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,040 Speaker 3: relationships because of friendships relationships, because we want it just 1215 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 3: to be harmonious. But whenever we choose harmony, there's a 1216 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,560 Speaker 3: little bit of resentment that builds with that. When we 1217 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,880 Speaker 3: speak our truth, there's no resentment that builds up. So 1218 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 3: the example I gave just there is that on the 1219 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,920 Speaker 3: topic of male friendships was that if Ryan didn't say 1220 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 3: anything every time Hamish and I were catching up or 1221 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:31,399 Speaker 3: we knew we were catching up, there'd be a little 1222 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,399 Speaker 3: bit of resentment there and we would have this sort 1223 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,520 Speaker 3: of sour taste around our friendship and it would it 1224 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 3: just wouldn't be good for any of us. But he 1225 00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 3: spoke his truth, and all of a sudden we were 1226 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 3: able to speak our truth about it, and it was gone, 1227 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,000 Speaker 3: and our friendships are gone to the next level again. 1228 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,839 Speaker 3: I think we speak our truth a lot of the time. 1229 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,319 Speaker 3: We're a to work disagreement. The other day, the first 1230 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 3: time we've ever had it was Josh and Ryan versus 1231 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 3: May and it was the most honest conversation about like 1232 00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,320 Speaker 3: how we were, like, I feel really uncomfortable we disagree, 1233 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,640 Speaker 3: so we've never disagreed before, but it was a strong disagreement. 1234 00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,360 Speaker 3: We had very but it was just such a We 1235 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:05,800 Speaker 3: talked about how it made us feel as well. Like 1236 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,400 Speaker 3: Ryan said, I'm feeling really uncomfortable because it just worries 1237 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,400 Speaker 3: me that we've got this never disagreed on stuff like this, 1238 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,319 Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah, it does worry me, but 1239 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,279 Speaker 3: I think that like I knew I would say all 1240 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 3: the positive about like, but I trust you so much 1241 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,360 Speaker 3: that I know it's not coming from wrong place and 1242 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,920 Speaker 3: it was just really nice. So I think it's hard 1243 00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,600 Speaker 3: for men to be really honest about how we feel 1244 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 3: because growing up as kids, that was not encouraged. If 1245 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,799 Speaker 3: we're crying, don't be a girl, grow up, be a man. 1246 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 3: So we go, oh, okay, I'm not going to have 1247 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,960 Speaker 3: those have those kind of conversations all that's sort of 1248 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 3: manly thing to do. But what I've learned in my 1249 00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 3: forties is that the more open you are, the more 1250 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 3: vulnerable you are with other males, the more it connects you. 1251 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,040 Speaker 3: And sport is a very vulnerable thing to do, and 1252 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,520 Speaker 3: you have those moments through sport. They appear all the 1253 00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,759 Speaker 3: time where you're making yourself very vulnerable just by you know, 1254 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 3: being in a close contest or the stuff you're going 1255 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,040 Speaker 3: out on football field or it's a kind of vulnerable 1256 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,520 Speaker 3: thing to do and it can be quite scary. Well 1257 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,840 Speaker 3: what's the times And that's that it connects you. But 1258 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 3: when that's gone, what what's going to connect you? And 1259 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,839 Speaker 3: I think it's shared vulnerability here. 1260 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: My final question for you is for people that have 1261 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,040 Speaker 1: listened to this chat and they're like, I need more 1262 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:13,759 Speaker 1: Hue in my life. What is the best way for 1263 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:14,480 Speaker 1: people to do that? 1264 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,480 Speaker 3: Well, I should probably plug my talks. I've got I'm 1265 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,839 Speaker 3: doing my show basically. I've got one in Adelaide, two 1266 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,960 Speaker 3: in Perth, this is one of the remaining ones for 1267 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:30,359 Speaker 3: the year. One outlaid two in Perth, Canberra, and when 1268 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,120 Speaker 3: it's Sydney the Opera House. I'm doing the Opera House, 1269 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,239 Speaker 3: which is terrifying. That should be good, and then five 1270 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,960 Speaker 3: in New Zealand come out late a year. So you 1271 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,000 Speaker 3: can go to the Resilience Project dot com. But are 1272 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,840 Speaker 3: you go to events? You can find them there. But 1273 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,799 Speaker 3: if you want to a great free resource I think 1274 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:45,840 Speaker 3: is the podcast. It's so cool that you can it 1275 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,440 Speaker 3: always blows. I was listening to your podcast yesterday, just 1276 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,040 Speaker 3: going it's pretty cool. This is free, like you get 1277 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,120 Speaker 3: this is the stuff. It's amazing. Podcasts are incredibles, such 1278 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,640 Speaker 3: a whoever invented it? Amazing invention, whoever you are. I 1279 00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,560 Speaker 3: hope you're getting a lot of money from it. You're 1280 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 3: probably not, but yeah so and then yeah, I guess 1281 00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 3: there's books as well, but if you just google, I 1282 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,239 Speaker 3: don't know Resilience project. There's a lot of We've tried 1283 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:11,480 Speaker 3: to create a lot of products so that we can 1284 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,279 Speaker 3: reach as many people as possible the way that people 1285 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,480 Speaker 3: would like to be reached. I guess reach is that 1286 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:15,759 Speaker 3: a word? 1287 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:15,960 Speaker 1: Yes? 1288 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 2: It is, yes, Yes, I believe it is. 1289 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 3: Reached you, Hugh. 1290 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 2: I've enjoyed this chat too much. Has just been such 1291 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:25,720 Speaker 2: a delight. 1292 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,840 Speaker 1: I could just listen to Hugh tell stories for hours, 1293 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,080 Speaker 1: and for me, the biggest thing I got from this 1294 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,840 Speaker 1: chat is I was reminded of the power of stories. 1295 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:42,959 Speaker 1: I loved how you thought about storytelling and you're really 1296 00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:47,200 Speaker 1: thought about collecting stories from his day and how he 1297 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,680 Speaker 1: thinks about sharing those with the people that he connects with. 1298 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,160 Speaker 1: And for me, I've definitely started being more diligent and 1299 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,440 Speaker 1: just mindful of the things that happened to me in 1300 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,520 Speaker 1: my day that might few worthing. How I Work is 1301 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,080 Speaker 1: produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios. 1302 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,320 Speaker 2: The producer for this episode. 1303 00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,759 Speaker 1: Was Liam Riordan, and thank you to mat Nimba, who 1304 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,880 Speaker 1: does the audio mix for every episode and makes everything 1305 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: sound so much better than it would have otherwise. 1306 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:17,600 Speaker 2: See you next time.