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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now.

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Speaker 2: And her response to me was, it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: the house looks like if the people in the house

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Speaker 2: are nice.

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Speaker 3: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 3: and dad.

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Speaker 2: I'm a bit embarrassed about this, but we made a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a blunder on Tuesday. We were supposed

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Speaker 2: to do a listener question and we talked about awesome

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Speaker 2: toys and games, and we forgot the listener question.

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Speaker 3: You do get it a bit excited every now and again.

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Speaker 2: Every now and again I might get a little bit

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Speaker 2: excited as so we are going to make up for

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Speaker 2: that by doing our listener question from Tuesday today, even

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Speaker 2: though it's Thursday. Please forgive us. For half the nation,

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Speaker 2: it's just another day, no problem. But for the people

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Speaker 2: who are in lockdown New South Wales, Act Victoria and

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Speaker 2: our New Zealand friends as well, it's really confusing when

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Speaker 2: we do what we should do on Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: On Thursday, hopefully they were wearing their weekday socks or something.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, blue socks for Wednesday, green socks for he.

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Speaker 2: My name is doctor Justin Colson. We haven't introduced ourselves.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who areknew to the podcast, welcome.

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Speaker 2: We are so glad to have you here.

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Speaker 3: Are you going to introduce me?

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Speaker 4: I'm getting there. I'm justin and well I'm Kylie.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for introducing yourself. I was going to get there.

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Speaker 2: I promise. We're the parents of six daughters aged from

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Speaker 2: grade one through to moved out and married.

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Speaker 4: We've got another one who's.

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Speaker 3: I won't say that was so much delight.

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Speaker 2: It's something to look forward to. I'm just putting it

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Speaker 2: out there. Life has never been better than when the

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Speaker 2: children move out of home.

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Speaker 3: We've only got five to go.

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Speaker 2: A parenting expert, I'm supposed to be telling you how

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Speaker 2: much love them every minute that they're there, and then

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Speaker 2: smile and enjoy the fame, love them even more with

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Speaker 2: the guys, and.

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Speaker 4: Welcome them home when they come back.

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Speaker 2: We should talk about stuff that matters, because otherwise we

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Speaker 2: could just talk about this for the rest of the podcast,

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Speaker 2: and that might annoy some people. So let's get serious

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Speaker 2: for a second. Every Tuesday we do listen to questions.

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Speaker 3: But today's not Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: Today's so we're doing a third day listener.

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Speaker 2: What would you call it dilemma, challenge, difficulty? And this

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Speaker 2: one is actually a little bit unusual because it's not

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Speaker 2: from a parent. Have listened to this question that we

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Speaker 2: received anonymously. We're even disguising the voice of this person

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Speaker 2: so that nobody can be known to anyone.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Justin and Kylee, I love the podcast. I'm twenty

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Speaker 1: four years old. I'm the nney of a young family.

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Speaker 1: They have two beautiful children under the age of ten.

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Speaker 1: They've recently moved into the most beautiful home I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: The reason for me reaching out is both children are

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Speaker 1: struggling with behavioral issues. I think it's because their parents

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Speaker 1: are never home. They both work incredibly on hours. They

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Speaker 1: earn lots of money. That's the beautiful house. What does

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Speaker 1: it not mean if the kids aren't happy? My question

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Speaker 1: is around how to find the perfect balance in family life.

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Speaker 3: Wow, this is a tricky one. I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: really interested to see where you steer this conversation.

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Speaker 2: So I'm steering the guy. I thought you would have

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Speaker 2: had some ideas. I mean, you've spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time dealing with young children early childcare. You spent a

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Speaker 2: lot of time watching parents and this shot from you,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I love hearing your insights.

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Speaker 3: I don't actually think this has anything to do with

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Speaker 3: money and affluence. My feeling is that when our children

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Speaker 3: act out, there are fundamental needs that are not being met,

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Speaker 3: and that number one need would be connection.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, that's a beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Emotional availability to our children.

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Speaker 2: So I think that it's really easy to draw a

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Speaker 2: straight line between parents who are chasing the dollar and

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Speaker 2: children behaving in challenging ways. My sense is is that

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Speaker 2: regardless of what you're doing, if you have misplaced values,

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Speaker 2: that is, if your values are not related to helping

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Speaker 2: to meet the needs of your growing children, then you're

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Speaker 2: going to have challenges and challenging behavior with those children.

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense, Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 3: But I don't even think it's that either. I think

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Speaker 3: that there is a whole range of reasons why you

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Speaker 3: might not be able to meet your children's needs. It's

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Speaker 3: really important to kind of recognize that this conversation isn't

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Speaker 3: about guilt at all. We don't want anyone feeling guilty,

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Speaker 3: but an acknowledgment that when our kids' emotional needs aren't

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Speaker 3: being met, that we often see this kind of behavior

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Speaker 3: come out.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about where challenging behavior can come from.

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Speaker 2: In some cases, it can come from parents who are

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Speaker 2: completely ignoring their kids.

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Speaker 4: It can come from parents.

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Speaker 2: Who are indulging their kids and who are focused in

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Speaker 2: the wrong areas.

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Speaker 3: So Mary Poppins comes to mind.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you've got what was the

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Speaker 2: name of the parents of Mary Poppins, Well, it.

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Speaker 3: Was the Bank's family and the children with Jane and Michael.

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Speaker 3: They lived in seventeen.

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Speaker 4: Cherry Tree Lane. That's right, Yeah, I remember that.

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Speaker 2: And so you've got a family who are completely divorced

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Speaker 2: from their children, focused on money and being social and

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Speaker 2: doing all the prim and proper things and having the status.

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Speaker 2: So there is that, and that's probably the archetypal over

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Speaker 2: exaggeration of what's really going on.

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Speaker 4: I don't think.

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Speaker 2: That there's a lot of parents in the world who

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Speaker 2: are really behaving like that, intentionally ignore or in the

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Speaker 2: needs of the children and bringing in hired help so

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Speaker 2: that they can have children, but have no responsibility around that.

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Speaker 4: Certainly not listeners to this podcast, and not.

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Speaker 2: The families that are engaging with us on our Happy

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Speaker 2: Families Facebook page, for example. But there's other reasons that

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Speaker 2: parents can struggle to meet the needs of their kids

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Speaker 2: and have challenging behavior. Sometimes parents don't know how it

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Speaker 2: hasn't been modeled to them. Sometimes they might have their

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Speaker 2: own mental health issues and challenges. Sometimes the children may

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Speaker 2: just be really challenging in spite of the parents' best

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Speaker 2: efforts to be there for them. In this case, obviously

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Speaker 2: there is a bit of a time issue, though, and

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Speaker 2: I think we need to acknowledge that that may in

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Speaker 2: this case be part of the problem.

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Speaker 4: Kylie.

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Speaker 2: I remember years ago when I just finished my PhD

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Speaker 2: and I was talking with a family. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: was talking with a teenage girl in a family that

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Speaker 2: was falling apart, and they had just finished building a

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Speaker 2: gorgeous home right near.

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Speaker 4: The beach in a really prestigious area.

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Speaker 2: The mum and the stepdad had invested everything that they had,

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Speaker 2: like we're talking vast sums.

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Speaker 4: Of money to create this gorgeous house.

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Speaker 2: And as I was talking to this girl, who was

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Speaker 2: dealing with a pretty depressed state, I said to her,

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Speaker 2: what are you looking forward to?

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Speaker 4: She said nothing.

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Speaker 2: I said, what about that amazing house that your family

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Speaker 2: have just built? And her response to me was, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the house looks like if the people

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Speaker 2: in the house aren't nice, she was crying out for

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Speaker 2: that attention. She was crying out for that connection that

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Speaker 2: you've just described. I say it all the time. Just

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Speaker 2: like dollars of the currency of our economy, connection is

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Speaker 2: the currency of our relationships. So an interesting place to start.

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Speaker 2: I think you said kids have got these needs. I

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Speaker 2: think it would be interesting to get really clear on

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Speaker 2: specific needs that children have.

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Speaker 4: Let's do that right after the break.

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Speaker 3: It's that Happy Families Podcome.

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Speaker 5: Are Screens Creating Tension at Home? Tweens, teens and Screens

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Speaker 5: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe super screens.

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Speaker 5: Bye Today at happyfamilies dot com dot are you slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and today we're

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Speaker 3: delving into a little bit of an issue with behavior.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when children are behaving in challenging ways, what's behind it?

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Speaker 2: Is it the fact that parents are emotionally unavailable, disconnected?

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Speaker 2: Is it something going on with the children, could be

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Speaker 2: a combination of both, or is it.

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Speaker 4: Something completely different?

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Speaker 2: Again, I reckon as I've thought about this question and

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Speaker 2: you've been talking, and I've been talking. I've gotted down

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Speaker 2: five needs that I think cannot be ignored if we

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Speaker 2: want to have children who are going to flourish and

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Speaker 2: do well. Five needs and I'd love to walk through them.

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Speaker 3: Sounds great. What's Number one?

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Speaker 4: Ongoing nurturing relationships? A connection?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exactly what you said at the outset. How

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Speaker 2: connected are we to our kids? How connected are our

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Speaker 2: kids to us? It goes both ways, and if we

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Speaker 2: can build that connection, that's at the heart of it.

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Speaker 2: So thinking of children who are in lockdown and families

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Speaker 2: who are struggling, or maybe even families that aren't in

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Speaker 2: lockdown but just struggling for connection, whether the kids are

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Speaker 2: two or in their teens, what do you reckon.

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Speaker 4: Are the best ways to connect?

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've got six daughters and they're at every

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Speaker 2: age from married down to grade one. What do you

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Speaker 2: think are the best ways that we've connected with our

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Speaker 2: kids over the years.

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Speaker 3: Our kids will also hands down or one on one

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Speaker 3: time is their absolute love.

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Speaker 4: They crave it.

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Speaker 3: They crave it. Yeah, And whether it's going for a

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Speaker 3: walk around the block, or playing board game or wrestling

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Speaker 3: on the bed or I.

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Speaker 4: Had gone to get a storybook.

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Speaker 2: I had to go and get some lawnmower fuel the

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Speaker 2: other day, and one of the kids just wanted to

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Speaker 2: get in the car and come with me to get

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Speaker 2: lawnmower fuel. And I'm like, I'm just going to get

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Speaker 2: petrol and it's going to be a couple of minutes,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, I want to come. They just

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Speaker 2: crave that connection, don't they.

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Speaker 3: And that just proves it doesn't matter how much time either.

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Speaker 3: We often think we've got to give them these huge

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Speaker 3: chunks of time, but it's not necessarily about the amount.

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Speaker 3: It's that they feel seen, heard and valued while over

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Speaker 3: they're in your space. Yeah, and even if that's only

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Speaker 3: a minute.

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Speaker 2: The second idea that really ties in neatly with this

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Speaker 2: question that we've had from our anonymous listener is the

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Speaker 2: need for developmentally appropriate experiences. See, these two kids in

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Speaker 2: this particular situation are under the age.

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Speaker 4: Of ten, and when.

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Speaker 2: I hear a story like that, I think kids don't

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Speaker 2: regulate their emotions or the behaviors particularly well before at

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Speaker 2: least the age of eight or nine anyway. And so yes,

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Speaker 2: it's true that perhaps the ongoing nurturing relationships that these

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Speaker 2: kids need are not being satisfied. But there's also a

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Speaker 2: developmental reality here. These kids are young, they're still learning,

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Speaker 2: they've got their old plates on, and they're learning how

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Speaker 2: to negotiate relationships, negotiate life. So I reckon, we don't

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Speaker 2: want to be too judgy on any parent, especially at

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Speaker 2: any time for any reason, but particularly when the kids

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Speaker 2: are young.

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Speaker 3: What's the third one?

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Speaker 2: The third need that every child has is a needful

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Speaker 2: limit setting and structure and clear expectations. And this is

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Speaker 2: where those three is of effective discipline come in that

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Speaker 2: I talk about all the time. We've got to spend

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Speaker 2: time exploring our kid's world so they feel validated and understood,

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Speaker 2: but we've also got to spend time explaining what our

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Speaker 2: expectations are and why before we move to an empowering

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Speaker 2: moment where we say, so, how are we going to

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Speaker 2: solve this so that we can live and socialize appropriately

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Speaker 2: within the boundaries that are right.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, this is a funny one because so often

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Speaker 3: we think that if we've got too much structure around

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Speaker 3: our kids' routines, that they're going to flip because they

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Speaker 3: just want to be able to do what they want

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Total freedom, Yeah, But The reality is that when we

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Speaker 3: provide structure and routine around their day while giving them

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Speaker 3: autonomy within that structure, we actually give them security and

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Speaker 3: they feel safe because it's predictable.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Kids need boundaries.

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Speaker 2: They actually want boundaries, even though they push against them.

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Speaker 2: If you don't give them something to push against that,

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Speaker 2: I don't actually get stronger, and they really really do

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Speaker 2: need that. You'll also know that those first three things

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Speaker 2: really go together, right, So the need for an ongoing

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Speaker 2: nurturing relationship, we've got to be able to set those

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Speaker 2: limits and those boundaries that structure those expectations. In the

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Speaker 2: context of an ongoing nurturing relationship. You can't just say

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Speaker 2: I'm the parent, that's why, because there's no ongoing nurture

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Speaker 2: happening there.

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Speaker 3: It's key, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's also got to be developmentally appropriate because

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Speaker 2: the rules that we have for a three year old

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Speaker 2: have to be different to the rules that we have

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Speaker 2: for a sixteen year old, although some parents might think

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Speaker 2: not for obvious reason, they could both go a little

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Speaker 2: bit crazy.

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Speaker 4: The fourth one that I want to.

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Speaker 2: Mention is there is an absolute need for physical protection

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Speaker 2: kids have that need, and as parents, we've got to

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Speaker 2: be present enough in their lives or have somebody else

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Speaker 2: in their lives that's sufficiently present to be able to

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Speaker 2: keep them safe. And the fifth one is, hey, can

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Speaker 2: I bonus one? I just thought of another one.

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Speaker 3: You can't help yourself.

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Speaker 4: I can't help myself. Okay, so there's six, not five.

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Speaker 2: The fifth one is that they need to have experiences

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Speaker 2: that are tailored to their individual needs. Like you can't

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Speaker 2: just say, well, I was a swimmer, and so all

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Speaker 2: the kids are going to do swimming lessons and they're

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Speaker 2: all going to be swimmers, or I was a I'm

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Speaker 2: always fascinated when you watch the sporting pedigree that comes

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Speaker 2: through families. You'll see somebody that was a champion cyclist

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Speaker 2: or a champion in rugby league player or AFL player

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Speaker 2: or swim swimmer or whatever it is, and their kids

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Speaker 2: grow up to be the same. And most of the

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Speaker 2: time the parents will actually say, I tried really hard

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Speaker 2: to convince them to go in a different direction, but

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Speaker 2: this is what they gravitated to. And in that case,

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Speaker 2: I think, you go you I mean, that's just fantastic.

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Speaker 2: But every now and again you'll come across somebody who's like,

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Speaker 2: this is what I did. I was good at it.

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Speaker 2: We knew they'd be good at it, and we got them

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Speaker 2: into it, and it's like, no, no, no, just just

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Speaker 2: let them. Let them develop their own strengths, let them

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Speaker 2: find out what they are good at. And Taylor to that,

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Speaker 2: I think of dead poets society and the dad who

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Speaker 2: just couldn't bear the thought that his son would waste

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Speaker 2: his education in drama and English when he could.

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Speaker 4: Go out and be a lawyer or a high flying achiever.

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Speaker 2: Kids need experiences tailored to their individual needs.

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Speaker 3: All right, So what's your bonus one?

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Speaker 2: Okay, the bonus one is now this, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get kind of deep on this, but I think that

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Speaker 2: this is missing incredibly in our society today.

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Speaker 4: Our children need what I'm going to.

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Speaker 2: Call cultural continuity and social cohesion. That is, they need

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Speaker 2: to feel like they fit in. And this kind of

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Speaker 2: goes into this ongoing nurturing relationship idea, but it crosses time,

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Speaker 2: it crosses boundaries, it crosses relationships.

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Speaker 4: Do they feel like they're part of your culture?

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's a racial or an ethnic culture, maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a religious culture, maybe it's a sporting culture, whatever the

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Speaker 2: culture of your family is. Do they feel like they

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Speaker 2: have cultural continuity, that they belong to something bigger than

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Speaker 2: just them and the family, And do they feel like

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Speaker 2: they fit into society like it is society coherent to them.

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Speaker 3: It's it's like the village. Yes, yeah, I talk about

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Speaker 3: all the time.

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Speaker 2: Almost every podcast you talk about the village. And that's

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Speaker 2: I'm bringing that in as a bonus one, as a six.

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Speaker 4: One one can bring that.

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Speaker 3: That's mine.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but I used big words and made it say

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Speaker 2: you did like it was PhD issue.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's just dumb it down a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It's a village everybody, but the kids need to feel

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Speaker 2: like they're in the village, not just the parents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And I've talked about this lots. You know,

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Speaker 3: the opportunity that they have other big people in their life,

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Speaker 3: other adults, other individuals who are interested and invested in them.

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Speaker 3: It makes all the difference.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it does.

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Speaker 2: A couple of last points that I want to touch on,

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Speaker 2: just in relation to our anonymous callers' ideas. The first

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Speaker 2: is if we are materialistic as adults, and it sounds

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Speaker 2: like in this context, certainly this person is with the

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Speaker 2: inside knowledge judging that there's a high level of materialism here.

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Speaker 2: We need to be mindful that our kids may place

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Speaker 2: a higher value on materialistic things than on their relationships.

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Speaker 4: As they get older, they will.

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Speaker 2: Learn from us, and I think it's just a warning

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Speaker 2: for all of us to make sure that our values

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Speaker 2: are not misplaced. And I think the other thing is

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Speaker 2: when we chase the dollars, we often kind of forget that.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I want my kids to have all the

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Speaker 2: things that I didn't have, and I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 2: why are you not happy with who you are? Why

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Speaker 2: do the kids need to have all that stuff? Because

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Speaker 2: they actually don't care. The kids are happy going on

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Speaker 2: holidays in a tent, The kids are happy living in

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Speaker 2: a standard three bedroom home in suburbia as long as

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Speaker 2: they've got really great relationships with their family and their friends,

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Speaker 2: and they can have those things. They're not asking for

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Speaker 2: a Lamborghini or a Mustang or a Bee double time. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so maybe some of your teenage sons won't be, but

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Speaker 2: they're not asking for the fancy car and the driveway.

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Speaker 2: They're not asking for the ski trip. Oh and by

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Speaker 2: the way, I don't want it to be a ski

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Speaker 2: trip to Threadbow in Australia. I'd like it to be

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Speaker 2: to Queenstown. In fact, no, my friends are going to

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Speaker 2: the Swiss Alps next year once COVID's gone.

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Speaker 4: I'd like to go.

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Speaker 2: They're not asking for that stuff as general rule. They're

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Speaker 2: just saying, hey, can we be together as a family.

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Speaker 2: Can we have good relationships? You don't need dollars, you

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Speaker 2: don't need to have a big house, you don't have

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Speaker 2: the fancy stuff for that. If you're chasing that stuff,

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Speaker 2: my guess is it's not really for the kids. It's

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Speaker 2: for you, and it's for your ego and so that

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Speaker 2: you can look good. And that's not necessarily going to

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Speaker 2: teach the kids the lessons that they need.

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Speaker 3: Or even have the connections that they need.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, missus, Happy Families.

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Speaker 2: Anything that we haven't touched on that we need to

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Speaker 2: go through to.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember this is the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: Poor parent.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. I have

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Speaker 2: just been owned Censire.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Hey, we really hope that this has been a helpful podcast.

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Speaker 2: We hope that those irreducible needs of children, have connected

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Speaker 2: with you and helped you as you consider the way

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Speaker 2: that you want to raise your kids, if you would

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Speaker 2: like ongoing support, So raise a happy family, because a

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Speaker 2: happy family doesn't just happen. Please check out our Happy

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Speaker 2: Families memberships all of the information you need is it

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Speaker 2: happy family dot com, dot I

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Speaker 3: H