Speaker 1: Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
Speaker 1: One Cut. I'm Brittany and I'm not Laura, Like, hello, guys.
Speaker 1: This is our Tuesday episode, our big media episode, but
Speaker 1: we have something a little bit different today. We have
Speaker 1: produced a Keisha on board, and I shouldn't say we
Speaker 1: produce a Keisha has replaced co host Laura, not for long,
Speaker 1: just for one very short moment in timeout for the
Speaker 1: intro today because very unfortunately, Laura had a bit of
Speaker 1: a family emergency and little Lola Derby took a turn
Speaker 1: over night and got quite sick. She's doing fine, she's okay,
Speaker 1: but they did have to be admitted into the hospital,
Speaker 1: so they had been in there today and tomorrow, so
Speaker 1: she couldn't record even if she wanted to. But we're like,
Speaker 1: you just go focus on that and we will sort
Speaker 1: something out. And the result is produce a Kisha. Produce
Speaker 1: a Kisha. Welcome to Life on Cut. I will thank you.
Speaker 1: Very nice to be here, very nice to be on
Speaker 1: the microphone here, I should say, But usually on the
Speaker 1: other side, I'm usually just sitting over there in the corner,
Speaker 1: and you're more dressed than what you usually are when
Speaker 1: you record. Just with Laura. So so, guys, usually we're
Speaker 1: in our undies and we have no makeup on, but
Speaker 1: I have a face of makeup. I've even got fake eyelashes.
Speaker 1: I did have to go in and do a presentation today.
Speaker 1: It's not for me.
Speaker 2: She hasn't put all this on for me.
Speaker 1: It's not for you. It's also not for a boy.
Speaker 1: So it's literally I had a job today. Keisha came
Speaker 1: in with me. Laura was also supposed to come. I
Speaker 1: mean talk about us thriving in chaos. Laura and I
Speaker 1: always say we thriving chaos. We were supposed to be
Speaker 1: on this panel, a big international podcast panel, really big deal.
Speaker 1: It was being streamed to Europe, the UK, in America
Speaker 1: and obviously there were people there as well, and we
Speaker 1: were supposed to be yes speaking about podcasting and the
Speaker 1: success and giving our tips, and then especially about the
Speaker 1: discussion group that was kind of this special thing that
Speaker 1: they wanted.
Speaker 2: To hear about.
Speaker 1: They wanted to hear about you everybody is in the
Speaker 1: discussion group and how kind of it's created a community
Speaker 1: of its own. Yeah, they were more frothing on you guys,
Speaker 1: the community than they were ourselves. So we were like
Speaker 1: do you want to know anything about our lot as
Speaker 1: a community. So last minute, Laura had to pull out
Speaker 1: of that, so I had to go and fly solo
Speaker 1: with no prep. So fine, but thank god Keisha came
Speaker 1: to cheer from me out the back. She was like,
Speaker 1: you're doing great, sweetie, like keep it up.
Speaker 2: Actually was Chris Jenna, like you're doing great, sweetie, going.
Speaker 1: Doing the thumbs up. You really didn't you really wear
Speaker 1: Chris Janna. So anyway, everyone that put Laura and little
Speaker 1: Lolla Derby in your thoughts today, Now this is just
Speaker 1: the intro because luckily the day before Lola took a turn,
Speaker 1: we did record the bulk of the episode. And just
Speaker 1: so you know, actually, Keisha, this episode slightly because of you.
Speaker 1: So why don't you introduce the episode? Well, I think
Speaker 1: I'll start by saying that when I f I started
Speaker 1: working with you guys, it was around the time that
Speaker 1: you told everyone you were dating Jordan, and you got
Speaker 1: so many messages and they were pretty funny.
Speaker 2: They all said, I'm.
Speaker 1: Really happy for you, I'm so glad that you finally
Speaker 1: found love, but I'm actually slightly upset because it means
Speaker 1: that you're not going to be sharing the shit show
Speaker 1: of a.
Speaker 2: Time that you have in the dating world anymore.
Speaker 1: The support was very questionable from you guys at the start.
Speaker 1: I felt the loved but I also felt they well
Speaker 1: fear no more. You brought on a producer that is
Speaker 1: in the trenches with you guys in the dating world,
Speaker 1: and that is kind of the slight inspiration for today's episode.
Speaker 1: It is all about closure, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: messages that we get to Instagram and to the Facebook
Speaker 1: are all about you know, I feel like I just
Speaker 1: want closure from this situation, and I have had a
Speaker 1: very interesting couple of weeks. Kisha has definitely taken over
Speaker 1: the reins for the shit show of dating that I
Speaker 1: used to hold, and I'm very happy to have hit
Speaker 1: those over to you. You literally came into life on
Speaker 1: Cutt's life at the exact time, right when we needed
Speaker 1: those shitty dating stories. So thank you. But yeah, this
Speaker 1: episode is all about closure, and I've kind of had
Speaker 1: a bit of an experience in the last couple of
Speaker 1: weeks where basically I went through a pretty tumultuous relationship.
Speaker 2: It was a quite toxic.
Speaker 1: Relationship and over the course of time, you know, we
Speaker 1: broke up multiple times.
Speaker 2: It was one of those ones and be.
Speaker 1: On again, off again. Well, I noticed that the first.
Speaker 2: Time that we broke up.
Speaker 1: You know, for me, it was only three weeks after
Speaker 1: this guy had told me that he loved me for
Speaker 1: the first time. Red flag, Yeah, a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: red flags that I was disguising as pink hues shades
Speaker 1: of red at the time. I remember thinking, like, how
Speaker 1: the fuck am I gonna get over this? I don't
Speaker 1: understand how things have changed so quickly, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I need the answers. I need to fit these
Speaker 1: pieces of the puzzle together so that I actually know.
Speaker 2: What has happened here, so that I can get over it.
Speaker 1: Anyway, A couple of broke ups later, I saw him
Speaker 1: for the first time since we've broken up last week.
Speaker 1: Not by your sort of stalker ish, wasn't it. It
Speaker 1: was like, and I don't know if we encourage this
Speaker 1: or we discourage this day. It definitely wasn't romantic, but
Speaker 1: I saw him for the first time, and it was
Speaker 1: one of those moments that you know when you're in
Speaker 1: the midst of a breakup and you kind of think, gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to the day that the thought
Speaker 1: of this person doesn't upset me, or seeing them doesn't
Speaker 1: upset me, or I just want closure from this situation.
Speaker 1: I realized when I saw him that I didn't actually
Speaker 1: need closure. I didn't need the conversation, I didn't need
Speaker 1: any of that. And it was one of those really
Speaker 1: nice moments for me where I looked back and I went, Wow,
Speaker 1: this same person, you know, because I've been through multiple
Speaker 1: breakups with them. The first time I really felt like
Speaker 1: I needed closure, and this time I didn't. And it
Speaker 1: was really actually quite nice to look at the personal
Speaker 1: growth that I've experienced from that situation. So, yeah, I
Speaker 1: kind of thought maybe we should do an episode on closure.
Speaker 1: We seem to get a whole bunch of messages about it,
Speaker 1: and maybe we can kind of unpack that a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna talk about closure. Do we really need it?
Speaker 1: And if so, why, and what are the personality types
Speaker 1: that feel like they need it more than others? But
Speaker 1: what do you think? I mean? To me, I feel like,
Speaker 1: and I know, hindsight it's a beautiful thing, but I
Speaker 1: think when you're in a relationship and it's early days
Speaker 1: and you're going through multiple breakups straight away, to me,
Speaker 1: that's a red flag. Like if Jordan nine the last
Speaker 1: six months had broken up and gone back together three times.
Speaker 1: To me, that's like, this is supposed to be the
Speaker 1: best time of a relationship, the beginning. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: this to you. I'm just like, you know, having a discussion.
Speaker 1: But it's like the honeymoon phase. If you are having
Speaker 1: that many problems and that much of a tumultuous relationship
Speaker 1: in the first like two, three, four, six months, I mean,
Speaker 1: you should never have that many problems. But I think
Speaker 1: of it as that's supposed to be the most like
Speaker 1: all consuming, loving, smitten, sickeningly, disgustingly loved up time of
Speaker 1: your life. And if you're like breaking up constantly, I
Speaker 1: feel like you're never going to get to the finish line.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's funny going through that experience. That was the first
Speaker 1: time I've kind of had one of those stars of relationships.
Speaker 1: And I think it's kind of the boiling pot analogy.
Speaker 1: You know how they say that you can have a
Speaker 1: frog in a pot and if you just gradually heat
Speaker 1: it up, it doesn't realize that the water's getting hot
Speaker 1: around it. It was that I didn't realize there were
Speaker 1: these little things that happened at the start that kind
Speaker 1: of started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger,
Speaker 1: and by the time I kind of realized what was
Speaker 1: going on. And I mean, I'm to blame for it
Speaker 1: as well, and I'm not saying that this other person
Speaker 1: is completely at fault. It was one of those situations
Speaker 1: that I think I just gradually became desensitized to, and
Speaker 1: I kind of misinterpreted the toxic nature of it for
Speaker 1: passion common misconception. It happens. It happens to the best
Speaker 1: of us. It really does. And we've spoken about it before,
Speaker 1: but I think that that is something that happens a lot.
Speaker 1: And we get to this point where we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a boring relationship. He doesn't love me as
Speaker 1: much as my last relationship because my last relationship he
Speaker 1: was so jealous and he was so needy, and that's love,
Speaker 1: Like I'm telling you now, it's not love. Well, I
Speaker 1: started to think that that was quite thrilling, and I
Speaker 1: think I became desensitized to just how fucked up it was.
Speaker 1: And you know, probably vice versa, he would probably be
Speaker 1: saying the same thing about me. I have a friend
Speaker 1: his name is Brad and he used to say this
Speaker 1: thing to me back years ago. So it's a bit
Speaker 1: sad that I haven't learned this until now. But here
Speaker 1: we are. He used to say, if you know the what,
Speaker 1: the why doesn't matter love that. Yeah. So he was like, Caish,
Speaker 1: if you know that someone doesn't want to be with you,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter why.
Speaker 2: You know that they don't want to be with you,
Speaker 2: So that's it, move on.
Speaker 1: And that's what I mean. I'm lucky that I'm in
Speaker 1: a really beautiful place in my life, only because I've
Speaker 1: gone through so much shit to get here. And I
Speaker 1: wasn't always like this, but I'm in a place where
Speaker 1: I honestly am like that. And I was talking to
Speaker 1: Jordan about this last night because I wanted his opinion
Speaker 1: on it. I'm like, if I broke up with you tomorrow,
Speaker 1: you know, out of nowhere because we're so great, would
Speaker 1: you be all right to move on? Or would you
Speaker 1: want to come and meet me and have a sit
Speaker 1: down talk because you need answers and you need to
Speaker 1: know why. And he's like, god no, And then I
Speaker 1: was a bit like, what, You're not going to fight
Speaker 1: for me? And it like started our own fight. I
Speaker 1: was like, what do you mean, You're not going to
Speaker 1: fight for me? He's like, if you told me you
Speaker 1: don't want to be with me, because I don't really care,
Speaker 1: He's like why, He's like, I want to be with
Speaker 1: someone that wants to be with me and if for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, and then I was a bit like five
Speaker 1: for me, God damn it. But I'm the same if
Speaker 1: someone said to me, now, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: with you, of course I would ask why, and I
Speaker 1: would prefer to know. But it's not the end of
Speaker 1: the world. If they wanted to ghost me, I know
Speaker 1: that I could still move on just fine, because I
Speaker 1: did it when I ended my two year relationship with
Speaker 1: the sociopath. Trust me, I did not get answers for
Speaker 1: a long time. For over a year, that guy, that
Speaker 1: man was not going to speak to me, and in
Speaker 1: all honesty, I was a bit scared to speak to him,
Speaker 1: but I didn't get any closure. But I was like, cool,
Speaker 1: that was not meant for me, and that was pretty
Speaker 1: fucked up. So I'm just going to get on with it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I think that the one thing that I will add
Speaker 1: is that I do like a lot of the people who.
Speaker 2: Listen to this podcast have anxiety.
Speaker 1: And I think that when you have had an anxious brain,
Speaker 1: if you go through a situation like I did initially
Speaker 1: with this same person, for me, it had just gone
Speaker 1: from so good to so bad so quickly that I
Speaker 1: was kind of left with so many questions. And when
Speaker 1: you have an anxious brain, you tend to catastrophize things
Speaker 1: and tend to kind of just go over it over
Speaker 1: and over and over, and you will come to the
Speaker 1: worst case answer unless you're given something else. And I
Speaker 1: think that that was something that I've kind of had
Speaker 1: to try and train out of myself, because I will
Speaker 1: naturally jump to, well, this must be what happened, and
Speaker 1: that must be what occurred, and that's why they've broken
Speaker 1: up with me, and it is not good for your
Speaker 1: confidence or your ego. And I think that's the other
Speaker 1: thing as well, is when you kind of have to
Speaker 1: distinguish the difference between is this your ego that's hurting
Speaker 1: or is it your heart that's hurting. Is this actually
Speaker 1: really upsetting me because I thought that I would have
Speaker 1: this life with this person and now all of a
Speaker 1: sudden that's been taken away. Or is this just a
Speaker 1: bit of a blow to my ego because this person
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be with me, and I'm upset that
Speaker 1: they don't see that I'm amazing. Yeah, like why like
Speaker 1: come to the party, don't you know what? How lucky
Speaker 1: you are? We've all been there. But before we get
Speaker 1: into that, I guess what. Okay, I have another question
Speaker 1: for you. How would you feel if you saw your
Speaker 1: ex or if he saw you online dating? Would that
Speaker 1: be cool? Are you at a place that that would
Speaker 1: shock and hurt you? Or would you just wish there
Speaker 1: was a possibility that you never had to see him
Speaker 1: on there.
Speaker 2: Again, I wish that there was.
Speaker 1: A possibility I never had to see him in general. Again, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish there was a possibility to get rid of that. Okay,
Speaker 1: well I can't do that, but I read something really
Speaker 1: interesting today. Tinder have just brought in a new feature
Speaker 1: and you can now block certain people in your life
Speaker 1: from seeing your profile. So you can put in your
Speaker 1: I think you just put in their phone number, so
Speaker 1: you have to have the contact If you put in
Speaker 1: the phone number into Tinder, and it will block that
Speaker 1: person from being able to see I think that's bloody brilliant.
Speaker 1: There were so many people I was trying to avoid
Speaker 1: when when I was on the dating circuit, especially like
Speaker 1: I mean, like this makes me sound really sad, but
Speaker 1: you know, single six years in BONDI that's not that
Speaker 1: many people in bond eye Like I turned through some days,
Speaker 1: there were definitely some people and whether they were like flatmates, friends, ex's,
Speaker 1: work colleagues, there were people that, like you just didn't
Speaker 1: want to see on there, and I wish at the
Speaker 1: time I could have blocked them, But you can do
Speaker 1: that now. I thought that this feature would have already
Speaker 1: been a thing, like surely I thought that there would
Speaker 1: be a button where it's like hide by a profile
Speaker 1: from that person. See. I think that's really good actually,
Speaker 1: and I think that that should be something they bring
Speaker 1: in so you can do it as you go, because
Speaker 1: you might not have a contacts number. But it does
Speaker 1: present another problem. Some people have come out on Reddit
Speaker 1: and all these conversation chains and they're like, this is
Speaker 1: all well and good. You can block your ex, but
Speaker 1: what about the fact that you could block your current
Speaker 1: partner or your partner's friends and just have a field
Speaker 1: day cheating. Well, how many times we've had a lot
Speaker 1: of people writing actually we had one only on an
Speaker 1: ask gun. I think two weeks ago where a work
Speaker 1: colleague went to Queensland on a trip and saw her
Speaker 1: colleague's husband on Tinder. He's obviously gone away, and thought that,
Speaker 1: you know, he's far enough away he's not gonna know anyone.
Speaker 1: What are the odds she's seen it? And then she's like,
Speaker 1: Holy Molly, do I tell my colleague that I saw
Speaker 1: her husband on Tinder? So it gets to a point
Speaker 1: where you could go through your phone. I mean, hypothetically,
Speaker 1: I hope no one does this, but you could go
Speaker 1: through and block your partner and all your partner's friends
Speaker 1: or your family or their family, and then go to town. Well,
Speaker 1: for starters, I think you'd hope that if you were
Speaker 1: going to cheat on your partner, your partner wasn't also
Speaker 1: on Tinder, right imagine if you both like that would
Speaker 1: kind of be like, ah, well you were doing it
Speaker 1: to me too.
Speaker 2: But also I don't.
Speaker 1: Think you'd have all the phone numbers of your partner's friends,
Speaker 1: would you. I mean, if this is clutching at straws,
Speaker 1: I think that if someone's going to go to that
Speaker 1: much effort to get away with cheating, they've probably got
Speaker 1: like a whole bag of tricks up their sleep, right,
Speaker 1: I mean they're gonna get caught anyway, if anyone's listening.
Speaker 1: We're not encouraged this and don't do it if you
Speaker 1: always get caught, like always, all right, producer Keisha. Before
Speaker 1: we get into the episode, we have our favorite segment
Speaker 1: accidentally unfiltered. This is not your first radio Do you
Speaker 1: want to kick start? Yes? I do.
Speaker 2: And firstly, thanks to everyone who sends these through.
Speaker 1: It's often like the three of us kind of scrolling
Speaker 1: through and having a good old giggle. Sometimes they think
Speaker 1: that they will come in at such funny times of
Speaker 1: the night and my housemates will just hear me, like
Speaker 1: start cracking up laughing, and I.
Speaker 2: Wonder whether they know what I'm laughing at. Okay, here's
Speaker 2: one for you.
Speaker 1: So a few years back, my boyfriend at the time
Speaker 1: and I were out for lunch and he had invited
Speaker 1: along one of his work colleagues. And I'd never met
Speaker 1: this work colleague before. So we're sitting there, we're having
Speaker 1: lunch when we're chatting about everything, and the conversation went
Speaker 1: to tattoos and I started telling him about this guy
Speaker 1: that my girlfriend had previously hooked up with. She told
Speaker 1: me that he had a suck Me Off Beautiful tattoo
Speaker 1: across his underline. So he's a cat. Is something you
Speaker 1: want to take home to your mama, darling? I proceeded
Speaker 1: to say, I mean, how gross is that? Why the
Speaker 1: hell would you get anything like that tattooed on your body?
Speaker 1: Every girl is gonna think that You're absolutely disgusting. You
Speaker 1: can only imagine my face when this guy looks at
Speaker 1: me straight in the eyes, stands up, the top of
Speaker 1: his trousers down and starts bursting out. Last, did he
Speaker 1: have sight suck me off Beautiful and tattooed on the
Speaker 1: top of his undeline? RIPENI fuck my life? How small
Speaker 1: can this world get? I'm still embarrassed to this day.
Speaker 1: What firstly, bro go and get a laser removal. No
Speaker 1: one's the time, but I don't care what bet you lost. Secondly,
Speaker 1: what are the odds that you're telling a story this
Speaker 1: happened to your friend? Your friends slept with someone, and
Speaker 1: it's the person sitting across from here. It's probably in
Speaker 1: probably want to has anyone else slept with this person?
Speaker 1: Can you ride in? Yes? Send a message if you've
Speaker 1: slept with the guy that specifically has a tattoo that
Speaker 1: reads suck me off beautiful tattooed on his undeyline. Have
Speaker 1: you gone for me? Yeah? I do. My one is
Speaker 1: like proper cooked. I feel a bit gross reading it,
Speaker 1: but whatever. So the other day I came home from
Speaker 1: work and I was putting my stuff down on the
Speaker 1: kitchen bench when my three month old kitten jumped up
Speaker 1: to say. As I was patting him, I noticed something
Speaker 1: on his fur. It was as though he had gotten
Speaker 1: into something and it spilled in him, sort of like milk.
Speaker 1: Maybe it had me rattled. Everything I could think of
Speaker 1: was nowhere in sight. Then I remembered something. I remembered
Speaker 1: how only a few weeks prior, my partner was telling
Speaker 1: me that he was trying to have a little sexy
Speaker 1: alone time, but the kitten kept trying to swipe his
Speaker 1: balls while he was doing it. Had suddenly clicked in
Speaker 1: this moment. I turned to him as he finished descending
Speaker 1: the stairs, and I said, Babe, did you come on
Speaker 1: the cat? His face went from laughing to shocked, and
Speaker 1: that's when I knew. I burst into laughed at he
Speaker 1: dropped to the ground. Turns out he was doing his
Speaker 1: thing and had mistaken the cat for an item of clothing.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, mistaken the cat for
Speaker 1: an iseam of clothing for it? How do you do that?
Speaker 1: How do you either you have like shot it out
Speaker 1: and it has intercepted it as it's like a running
Speaker 1: or you're a sicko or you're blind and whatever out.
Speaker 1: Surely they surely they shoot it out, don't they don't
Speaker 1: men just try and see how far it can go?
Speaker 2: Surely not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I reckon it keeps people out
Speaker 1: there being like one hundred percent they have at least
Speaker 1: once in their life they want to know like what
Speaker 1: power and distance they have because they think it's like
Speaker 1: they think it means their swimmers are stronger and things,
Speaker 1: so like I can guarantee you velocity to them. Do
Speaker 1: you know what's actually really interesting? Can you all ask
Speaker 1: your partners in your life if they have ever done this,
Speaker 1: if it's a thing that men do where they want
Speaker 1: to test the power of their sperm. We're gonna put
Speaker 1: a pole up and I'm gonna ask you. I want
Speaker 1: you to vote on behalf of the men. You're like
Speaker 1: super curious. I'm gonna say yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say more people have done that once in their life.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? That's pretty cooked and a
Speaker 1: bit fucked us. I'm not saying it's not cooked. Well anyway,
Speaker 1: it was lovely to join you for the intro. But
Speaker 1: don't worry, guys, I'm not on the rest of the episode.
Speaker 1: Your gal Laura is about to join you right now.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on, Keisha. We are in my
Speaker 1: lounge room. We are clothes though, so it's so different.
Speaker 1: I don't really know what to do with it looking
Speaker 1: at someone's but we've loved having you and I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you guys all got to meet producer Keisha because
Speaker 1: she is very big behind the scenes these days and
Speaker 1: she helps Laura and I out incredibly, So thank you
Speaker 1: for coming, and guys, let's get into the episode, all right.
Speaker 3: So on today's episode, we are talking about closure and now.
Speaker 3: The reason why we decided.
Speaker 1: To do a whole media episode on the topic is
Speaker 1: because you'll asked about it all the time.
Speaker 3: Honestly, it's one of the things where and we get
Speaker 3: it in so many different variations, but one of the
Speaker 3: most common ask gun cut questions that we receive is
Speaker 3: the constant question of my boyfriend or my girlfriend has
Speaker 3: just broken up with me and I didn't see it
Speaker 3: coming and I don't know how to move on, And
Speaker 3: I guess like the bigger picture of this is unpacking closure.
Speaker 3: Did you receive closure? How important is receiving closure to
Speaker 3: be able to move on from a relationship? And what
Speaker 3: are all the different aspects of gaining closure if you
Speaker 3: feel like you've been ghosted or you haven't been left
Speaker 3: with all the information and the tool that you need
Speaker 3: to put a relationship to bed. And at the start,
Speaker 3: when Laura and I were like, cool, let's unpack closure
Speaker 3: straight away, I was like, when we say to each other,
Speaker 3: because we always do this before we go into our research,
Speaker 3: we ask each other's opinion straight off the bat, what
Speaker 3: do you think about this?
Speaker 1: How do you feel about it? And straight away I
Speaker 1: was like, I have never really felt like I'm needed closure.
Speaker 1: I felt like I'm someone gives me bad news and
Speaker 1: I'm like, cool, I'm just gonna move on, but like
Speaker 1: I'm a.
Speaker 3: Fly risk, I also go to an other country and
Speaker 3: like deal with my heartbreak by being in Barcelona.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I used to just bury it and well,
Speaker 1: at the time, I was like, I didn't think I
Speaker 1: needed it, But I also had other coping mechanisms where
Speaker 1: I was dealing with it, where in my head I'm like, cool,
Speaker 1: I don't need to deal with it, but I was.
Speaker 1: But when I started to really have a deep dive
Speaker 1: and think about my past, I wasn't always like that.
Speaker 1: There were times in the early days in my early
Speaker 1: relationships were all I wanted, and I remember turning up
Speaker 1: to my ex's house on the doorstep in tears, inconsolable,
Speaker 1: saying why tell me, like, just tell me, why give
Speaker 1: me a reason? I needed the closure, and I honestly
Speaker 1: believed that I could never ever move on until I
Speaker 1: got that closure. And then I've realized as the years
Speaker 1: went by, as I got a little bit older, a
Speaker 1: little bit wiser, and a little bit more shut on,
Speaker 1: I realized I didn't really need what I thought I needed.
Speaker 1: And then we started to get into this, Okay, is
Speaker 1: closure for everyone? What does closure mean to everybody? Because
Speaker 1: the closure is subjective, it is the meaning is different
Speaker 1: for every single person, and.
Speaker 3: It's also different case by case relationship as well. Like
Speaker 3: we do have a tendency as humans to want to
Speaker 3: package something up and to make sense of something in
Speaker 3: our minds and go, okay, this is the reason. Let's
Speaker 3: put a nice bow around everything and pop it to
Speaker 3: the side, which means I can now progress onto the
Speaker 3: next thing. Everybody approaches the need for closure differently, and like,
Speaker 3: for example, if you've been in a long term relationship,
Speaker 3: your need for closure, if your partner was just to
Speaker 3: be like, hey, cool, I'm leaving, it's probably a lot
Speaker 3: greater then somebody who gets ghosted after one date. Like
Speaker 3: you know, we're all on this spectrum of like needing
Speaker 3: some sort of validation as to why a relationship has
Speaker 3: come to an end. But this doesn't just have to
Speaker 3: apply for relationships. And I think that's really important because
Speaker 3: you might be listening to this being like, hey, I'm
Speaker 3: in a really happy relationship and I don't really need
Speaker 3: to listen to an episode on closure. But this could
Speaker 3: be in regards to work, Like, for example, in this
Speaker 3: past year, a lot of people have been made redundant
Speaker 3: because of COVID, And maybe you were doing a great job.
Speaker 3: Maybe you worked for a great company that you had
Speaker 3: put a lot of time and energy into, and you
Speaker 3: were made redundant, and somebody else wasn't and you weren't
Speaker 3: given the answer why, And you can use this episode
Speaker 3: for a tool to be able to help to get
Speaker 3: over that and the trauma of how you feel the
Speaker 3: fact that you've been made redundant or being fired. You
Speaker 3: can also use this conversation in regards to like a
Speaker 3: friendship breakup.
Speaker 1: If you've got a friend.
Speaker 3: Who you know you've lost touch with, you don't really
Speaker 3: know why or what happened, and trying to kind of
Speaker 3: reconcile why that person just remove themselves from your life
Speaker 3: can be really, really, really hard unless you understand and
Speaker 3: the why. But the thing that we're going to kind
Speaker 3: of get to the bottom of is that the why
Speaker 3: is kind of irrelevant. And that's where I think, once
Speaker 3: we've unpacked this whole conversation, where we're going to get
Speaker 3: to in the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like Laura said, it's not just relationships. It
Speaker 1: definitely is your work. It is a status or a
Speaker 1: way of life. It's also a death or a loss
Speaker 1: of someone that's really important. It comes in so many
Speaker 1: avenues and it's important to ask yourself, can we really
Speaker 1: expect and rely on somebody else to bring us that closure?
Speaker 1: And what we need but to start off with or
Speaker 1: what is closure? The social psychologist Ari, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to get this wrong, Ari Kraglanski, Did you guys? I
Speaker 1: just don't know how to protest the last okay. Ari
Speaker 1: Kaglansky coined the phrase.
Speaker 3: I also think if you say anything with like a
Speaker 3: lot of conviction, everybody listening to this is gonna be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: Koglansky guy, he knows his shit.
Speaker 1: Well, no one's going to write to inmbay. I think
Speaker 1: it's Klogonski. If you do. Don't slide into my DMS
Speaker 1: with the correction, except.
Speaker 3: For like the one or two people who are actually
Speaker 3: a psychologists that listen every sort and when we say
Speaker 3: something wrong, we'll have a psycho just write to us
Speaker 3: and be like, hey, girls, I love your podcasting.
Speaker 1: You didn't nail that part. But the phrase that you
Speaker 1: we've all heard of the need for closure, finding the
Speaker 1: need for closure, I have the need for closure. It
Speaker 1: was coined in the nineteen nineties, and it's referring to
Speaker 1: a framework for decision making that aims to find an
Speaker 1: answer on a given topic that will alleviate confusion and ambiguity. Now,
Speaker 1: I find this interesting that as humans, we feel like
Speaker 1: we can't get there on our own. We feel like
Speaker 1: every single thing has to have an answer. And what
Speaker 1: I find interesting is often it's not an answer that
Speaker 1: we're searching for, but it's an answer that we want.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the interesting thing with that is, as humans,
Speaker 3: if we're missing a link, So for example, if someone
Speaker 3: breaks up with you, or if you lose your job,
Speaker 3: whatever the thing is, if you don't have all the reasons,
Speaker 3: we like to make up reasons. We like to try
Speaker 3: and fill in the blank. And then by filling in
Speaker 3: the blanks, all the things that we have created as
Speaker 3: assumptions come truth and like, sometimes that's helpful for healing,
Speaker 3: but other times that can be really detrimental.
Speaker 1: So we're looking for answers to try and close or
Speaker 1: resolve these painful feelings. Essentially, that's what we're doing. But
Speaker 1: while we're doing that, we overanalyze what's happened. We examine
Speaker 1: every single piece of the puzzle, and then closure is
Speaker 1: achieved when we are satisfied that all the puzzle pieces meet.
Speaker 1: But the problem is, and I think this is something
Speaker 1: that I used to do as well, and Laura and
Speaker 1: I were talking about this. Sometimes you like I need closure,
Speaker 1: you go to get your answer, but it's not the
Speaker 1: answer you want. I remember, like a past relationship, them
Speaker 1: saying I don't want to be with you anymore, and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm coming over. I went over
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, tell me why. Why don't
Speaker 1: you want to be with you anymore? Because in my
Speaker 1: mind and in my life and in the perfect future
Speaker 1: that I had created, I was obsessed. I was so
Speaker 1: in love. It was everything. And they were like, I
Speaker 1: don't think I need to tell you that, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you do need to tell me that, and he's like, fine,
Speaker 1: I don't love you anymore and I was like, excuse me.
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, you do. I was. I was like,
Speaker 1: you do love me? And he like I don't. And
Speaker 1: I was like, but you do. Because couldn't comprehend how
Speaker 1: not how you couldn't love me. But I couldn't comprehend
Speaker 1: how I could have the feelings at the level that
Speaker 1: I did, this all consuming love and how I thought
Speaker 1: we were together forever and I thought it was perfect
Speaker 1: and that someone couldn't be meeting me at that level.
Speaker 1: So for me, that didn't do anything except make it worse.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to now and a lot of shit that
Speaker 1: I've been through. If someone said to me, like if
Speaker 1: Jordan came and said to me, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be with you anymore, if it was like a grown
Speaker 1: up conversation, I'm not gonna walk out the door. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask why. I'm gonna be like, hey, like
Speaker 1: what's happening, Like where did that come from? What's going on?
Speaker 1: But if he was like I just don't I can't
Speaker 1: explain it. If he just said I just don't want
Speaker 1: to be with you, I'm at such a different place
Speaker 1: now that that in itself is enough for me. If
Speaker 1: someone can say to me, I don't want you for me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, it doesn't really matter why then, because the
Speaker 1: why to me is relevant. If someone's just like, you're
Speaker 1: not my person, you're not all right for me, and
Speaker 1: I don't want you in my life. I've been through
Speaker 1: so much now that I'm like, cool, that's all I need,
Speaker 1: because I just want to be with someone that wants me.
Speaker 1: And if you don't, I'm fine, and I genuinely like
Speaker 1: i'd be very upset, of course, but I'm at a
Speaker 1: place now where I'm like, there's nothing to do holding
Speaker 1: onto that and sitting on that and dwelling on that
Speaker 1: doesn't bring anything positive to my life. All it does
Speaker 1: is keep you like in quicksand stuck in quicksand.
Speaker 3: Okay, so the reason why I laughed is not like, hey, guys,
Speaker 3: I'm pouring my heart here and Laura. I'm looking at
Speaker 3: Laura laughing, and I was like, I've either got something
Speaker 3: away face, or do you know.
Speaker 1: If that John's about to break up with me, buck
Speaker 1: and I would not be laughing at that.
Speaker 3: No, I'm laughing because you like accosted an ex boyfriend
Speaker 3: as to why he didn't love you anymore. And I'm
Speaker 3: just thinking about the time that I told an ex
Speaker 3: boyfriend he wasn't breaking up with me. He was like,
Speaker 3: we're breaking up and I was like, we're not. And
Speaker 3: then we stayed together for six more years. And I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure. I'm pretty sure for the entire time he
Speaker 3: kept trying to break up. I'm just very stubborn. We
Speaker 3: live when we learn people No. But I think one
Speaker 3: of the things you've just said that and maybe this
Speaker 3: is like the most important part of this, but this
Speaker 3: idea that obviously in your romantic relationships, you're going to
Speaker 3: be invested. They become part of your identity. They become
Speaker 3: part of who you are and what is important to you.
Speaker 3: That's just what happens. We intertwine our sense of self
Speaker 3: worth with the person that we are having a life
Speaker 3: with or creating a life with.
Speaker 1: Now, the issue is if you are getting your full.
Speaker 3: Source of love or admiration or self value or whatever
Speaker 3: it is, if you are getting all of that from
Speaker 3: somebody else. When that person leaves, a huge part of
Speaker 3: your identity walks out the door with them. And I
Speaker 3: think for some people, and I know this for myself.
Speaker 3: In the relationships that I have struggled the hardest to
Speaker 3: get over, the relationships that ended that cause me the
Speaker 3: most hurt and trauma. They are the relationships where I
Speaker 3: completely lost my sense of self. So once they had gone,
Speaker 3: I was like, well, who am I now that they're
Speaker 3: not here? And so it wasn't so much around needing closure,
Speaker 3: but it was around I can't do this because I
Speaker 3: don't even know who I am anymore. And I think
Speaker 3: that a lot of people who when they get their
Speaker 3: sense of self or they get their love or whatever
Speaker 3: it is, that thing and I think that it's really
Speaker 3: important to kind of unpack what is it that you're
Speaker 3: getting from that relationship that you are not able to
Speaker 3: get from other areas of your life. So that why
Speaker 3: can't you move on? Why are you stuck? Why do
Speaker 3: you keep looking in the revision mirror and looking in
Speaker 3: the past, Because until you're able to kind of be
Speaker 3: in the present and start to mend those things, that's
Speaker 3: where the closure comes from.
Speaker 1: So I do think that people mainly think of closure
Speaker 1: and they jump straight to a relationship ending, and that's
Speaker 1: what they want, the closure from a divorce or a breakdown,
Speaker 1: or I guess sometimes friendships as well. But there is
Speaker 1: this tendency to near closure faults. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say more insignificant things, but more insignificant things like when
Speaker 1: you're maybe you're online dating somebody, or it's very new,
Speaker 1: it's a few weeks, maybe haven't even met them yet,
Speaker 1: and then they ghost you, they just disappear. This can
Speaker 1: leave you and I've been in this position too. This
Speaker 1: can you sometimes more beside yourself than when a long
Speaker 1: term relationship breaks down, because you don't have any answer.
Speaker 1: Everything's going fine, everything's making sense, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they disappear. Then you start to reflect on yourself.
Speaker 1: You start to get these really toxic thoughts because you're like,
Speaker 1: what did I do? What did I say? And I
Speaker 1: think the immediate thought process is reflecting on yourself as
Speaker 1: opposed to it's wrong and it's rude. But maybe that
Speaker 1: person lost interest, Maybe that person dropped his phone in
Speaker 1: the gutter, maybe somebody died in that person's life. But
Speaker 1: I think it's sometimes more consuming these more insignificant moments
Speaker 1: like online dating for me personally, because you're like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck, Like you didn't even get a chance to
Speaker 1: know me, and it drives this level of anxiety as
Speaker 1: opposed to when you're in a long term relationship and
Speaker 1: it has a breakdown. This is when, and this is
Speaker 1: what I've read, this is when most people start to
Speaker 1: drive themselves insane and get really down on themselves. This
Speaker 1: is when they delete their online dating profiles. This is
Speaker 1: when they're like, I fucking give up. Everyone's a twat.
Speaker 1: There's this really interesting story that I read. I think
Speaker 1: his name was the Angry so like the anger Psychologist,
Speaker 1: and he was reciting his own story and it was
Speaker 1: from years and years before he was in a really
Speaker 1: long term relationship, like eight years and they were spending
Speaker 1: their life together. She left him one day. She just
Speaker 1: said I'm done and he was like, whoa what, Like,
Speaker 1: let's talk about this, and she was like, I'm not, like,
Speaker 1: I just as done, and she left. He messaged her
Speaker 1: and called her obviously NonStop because he's like, you can't
Speaker 1: just do that. I need answers. When she's like, well
Speaker 1: I have done that, you know, like this is done.
Speaker 1: He messaged her every week for months and he never
Speaker 1: got a response. She just ghosted him. He for years
Speaker 1: convinced himself, I can't move on until I get the
Speaker 1: closure that I need from her, which she never gave me,
Speaker 1: and he convinced himself of it. So years went by.
Speaker 1: He ended up having contact with her and he said,
Speaker 1: can you meet me? So she met him. They met
Speaker 1: up after all this time, and he was like, finally
Speaker 1: I'm going to get my closure that I need. They met,
Speaker 1: he didn't get any answer, she left, and this is
Speaker 1: when he realized, fuck all this time, I have put
Speaker 1: my life on hold because I told myself I needed
Speaker 1: to have this meeting to have closure, and I didn't
Speaker 1: get closure. And the realization of him not getting or
Speaker 1: needing the closure was what gave him closure. Now I
Speaker 1: know that's like a closure inception, but he's like, I
Speaker 1: walked away. I didn't get the closure from her, but
Speaker 1: I got closure because I was like, I fucking didn't
Speaker 1: need it all this time. It's me who was in
Speaker 1: control of how I feel, and it's me in control
Speaker 1: of if I can move on with my life and
Speaker 1: accept what's happened.
Speaker 3: But that's the reality, right, Like I think the problem
Speaker 3: is and when we focus too much on like having
Speaker 3: a nice, neat little bow to package up a relationship
Speaker 3: and put it in the cupboard, it's the fact is
Speaker 3: that sometimes there isn't a why. Sometimes you can't explain
Speaker 3: the way that you feel, you know, and sometimes relationships
Speaker 3: break down for lots of different small reasons and you
Speaker 3: drift apart, and there isn't this one big thing that's
Speaker 3: like I cheated or I fell in love with someone
Speaker 3: else or whatever you sucked at your job, like whatever
Speaker 3: it is, sometimes they isn't an actual tangible why. And
Speaker 3: that's because you know, we are very complex humans. We
Speaker 3: all have the right to leave relationships and change our mind.
Speaker 3: And I actually genuinely think and some people might disagree
Speaker 3: with this, but I don't actually think that we deserve
Speaker 3: a huge explanation, you know we I think maybe if
Speaker 3: you're in a relationship where you have children and your
Speaker 3: lives are entwined in that way, yeah, sure, there's a
Speaker 3: level of care and a level of compassion and empathy
Speaker 3: that you should have for your partner. But for example,
Speaker 3: if you have matched someone on Tinder, you've been chatting
Speaker 3: a little while and they ghost you, no, you know what,
Speaker 3: that's a bit of shitty behavior, But you're not entitled
Speaker 3: to a why.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't really get that angry.
Speaker 3: And be like, well, you know, I thought that we
Speaker 3: were going to catch up and then he never wrote back,
Speaker 3: Like there is a level of why do you feel
Speaker 3: it's so entitled to having all of the answers given
Speaker 3: to you. And the other side of that is we
Speaker 3: never know what's going on in somebody else's life, and
Speaker 3: we don't ever understand fully what they have happening. And
Speaker 3: just because someone does something doesn't mean that they're actually
Speaker 3: into mentionally doing it to hurt you. That doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: mean there's malice in it. It's just that one person's
Speaker 3: out there living their life and the things that they
Speaker 3: do even though it affects you, it's not done to you,
Speaker 3: And I think that's a really important thing to remember. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we get it mixed up with curiosity,
Speaker 3: Like sometimes people have done stuff to me online dating
Speaker 3: and been such twats. I don't want to know why
Speaker 3: because I need the closure to make myself feel better.
Speaker 1: I'm just genuinely curious. I'm like, what the fuck went
Speaker 1: on in their life? I'm like, it's like I like
Speaker 1: kept by a bus, Like where what happened to it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I'm actually curious, So I'm like, what happened to you?
Speaker 1: But I guess the next part I want to talk
Speaker 1: about is who needs closure and the personality types. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of research that indicates there are certain
Speaker 1: personality types that need it and certain personality types that don't.
Speaker 1: And one study found that people who prefer order and
Speaker 1: structure and predictability and really knowing their day's plan, they
Speaker 1: have a more rigid way of thinking and a low
Speaker 1: tolerance for ambiguity. And these are the people that really
Speaker 1: struggle with not having I mean, we say closure a lot,
Speaker 1: but not having the answers to something or something perpetually
Speaker 1: being the unknown that sort of scares them, and they're
Speaker 1: the people that really need the structure or they genuinely
Speaker 1: feel like they're stuck in their tracks. And in contrast,
Speaker 1: more creative people, more artistic people, more people that are
Speaker 1: open minded, and they're more people that are comfortable with ambiguity.
Speaker 1: They're the people that are better able to cope with
Speaker 1: people that are like, cool, I don't have an answer,
Speaker 1: but that's cool, Like the universe. I'm on my path.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna achieve whatever I want. They're not gonna stop
Speaker 1: me from achieving my dream. So it's these more open
Speaker 1: minded people that don't really feel like they need an
Speaker 1: answer to a relationship or to a job loss, or
Speaker 1: to anything in life to move on.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's interesting, isn't it, Because I think that,
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe you are that person. Maybe you are
Speaker 3: the person who is a bit of an a personality
Speaker 3: type of needs structure order And you're listening to this
Speaker 3: going like, yeah, actually, there's been plenty of times in
Speaker 3: my life where I felt like I needed more closure.
Speaker 3: But when you said that, Britt, like, I can think
Speaker 3: of friends who have struggled with relationships ending. When I
Speaker 3: say struggle with relationships ending, we all struggle with relationship ending,
Speaker 3: but they have struggled to a point where they really
Speaker 3: fixated on the need for closure. And now that you've
Speaker 3: said that, I'm like, oh my god. They are absolutely
Speaker 3: somebody who needs more structure and order in their lives,
Speaker 3: and so maybe in that sense they needed to make
Speaker 3: sense of it in the way that everything else in
Speaker 3: life makes sense. But the reality is relationships are messy,
Speaker 3: they don't always make sense, and we don't always have
Speaker 3: answers for it.
Speaker 1: Something else I found really interesting is that people that
Speaker 1: are more religious or have a belief system that maybe
Speaker 1: is more spiritual, they don't need as much closure as
Speaker 1: people that don't. And this is all research backed because
Speaker 1: they have this ideology of this is God's will, so
Speaker 1: they don't need the answers because they can rely on
Speaker 1: being like, oh, this is what God wanted for me,
Speaker 1: this is what the universe has done for me. I
Speaker 1: just fund that really interesting because they're just far more
Speaker 1: accepting knowing that whatever has happened to them has happened
Speaker 1: for a reason, so they don't need to go and
Speaker 1: find their asses. I just found that really interesting.
Speaker 3: One of the things that always comes up when you
Speaker 3: have this conversation around closure is the idea of ghost right,
Speaker 3: Like I think that if we were gonna think of
Speaker 3: the most stereotypical example of someone needing closure, it's the
Speaker 3: person who's been ghosted. When I was having this conversation
Speaker 3: with Matt, because I was like, ghosting, you know, it's
Speaker 3: such a modern phenomena, and Matt was like, what's really
Speaker 3: not It's just modern in the way it's done these days,
Speaker 3: Like so we ghost people now, by I mean, I
Speaker 3: would hope that nobody's ever experienced this, But like, imagine
Speaker 3: if your boyfriend didn't break up with you, he just
Speaker 3: went on to Facebook and changed his profile to single,
Speaker 3: like not in a relationship anymore, I'm single now, and
Speaker 3: then never text you back.
Speaker 1: Pretty extreme form of ghosting. But I'm sure it has happened.
Speaker 1: That happens all the time. And I actually read something,
Speaker 1: and I actually read something today that's so interesting and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go and have a deep dive. But Facebook
Speaker 1: are actually changing the way now that you change your
Speaker 1: statuses and stuff like that, because too many people just
Speaker 1: changing their status to like broken up without instead of
Speaker 1: having a conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, there's gonna be someone listening to this
Speaker 3: podcast now, Who's like, yeah, I got broken up with
Speaker 3: over Facebook didn't even know about it. But this is
Speaker 3: not new. This is not a new phenomena. Like we've
Speaker 3: all heard of the wife who had three kids at
Speaker 3: home whose husband went out to go get milk and
Speaker 3: he never fucking came home. Like, and the crazy thing is,
Speaker 3: so I was having this conversation with Matt. Matt was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: my mom's best friend growing up that was her dad.
Speaker 3: Her dad literally went to work one day and never
Speaker 3: came home and that was it. He moved to Perth,
Speaker 3: had a whole other family. Like, ghosting is not something
Speaker 3: that's new. It just used to happen in a very
Speaker 3: spectacular fashion back in the day. But I think sometimes
Speaker 3: with ghosting, that's like the stereotypical scenario where we want
Speaker 3: to have closure, we want to be able to understand, well,
Speaker 3: why did they do that? But I think it all
Speaker 3: comes back to this idea of like, just because someone
Speaker 3: does something and it affects you doesn't necessarily mean that
Speaker 3: they're doing it to you. And even if that person,
Speaker 3: like Britz said, did give you some closure in that,
Speaker 3: they said, well, I don't like the way that you
Speaker 3: are so extroverted, or I think you're too loud, or
Speaker 3: I think you're too this. Even if you had all
Speaker 3: that information, are you going to change who you are
Speaker 3: at the core? Like, what are you going to do
Speaker 3: with that information? Are you going to dull your flame?
Speaker 3: You know, are you going to be a different person
Speaker 3: to try and appease that person who's got the issued? No,
Speaker 3: the reality is is that they're the one that has
Speaker 3: the issue. They're the one that wants out of the relationship,
Speaker 3: and it almost always entirely lies with that person. It's
Speaker 3: not necessarily about you at all.
Speaker 1: So you don't have closure, you don't have the answers.
Speaker 1: You've been ghosted. What do you do? First and foremost,
Speaker 1: it's super important to know that you are the one
Speaker 1: that is in charge of obtaining closure. And I think
Speaker 1: ultimately we can talk about this until the cows come home,
Speaker 1: but it's always going to come back to you. You
Speaker 1: are the one that is in charge, you of your
Speaker 1: thoughts and your feelings and what you tell yourself you need.
Speaker 1: Even if you do get an answer from somebody, like
Speaker 1: Laura said, you don't know a that they're telling you
Speaker 1: the truth. You just don't know they could be scooting
Speaker 1: around the truth so they don't hurt your feelings. You
Speaker 1: also have to be aware that it very well could
Speaker 1: hurt your feelings. Then what are you going to do
Speaker 1: with that? But also on top of that, it also
Speaker 1: still might not be enough. That might give you exactly
Speaker 1: the reasons as to why it's happened, and that why
Speaker 1: may still not be good enough. And if someone doesn't
Speaker 1: want to communicate with you, which we hear all the time,
Speaker 1: especially from you guys writing in and saying he won't
Speaker 1: answer me, he won't give me my answer. If they
Speaker 1: don't want to communicate with you, that's saying more about
Speaker 1: them than it is about you. They're not affording you
Speaker 1: the respect that you deserve in this situation. And I
Speaker 1: think you need to look at that as in, he's
Speaker 1: not speaking to me because I've done something wrong. You're saying,
Speaker 1: I can't change the fact that he doesn't want to
Speaker 1: talk to me. I can't change the fact that he's
Speaker 1: not going to give me the answers that I need.
Speaker 1: I can't change the fact that they just don't want
Speaker 1: to be with me.
Speaker 3: Well, don't you think it's that old adage of like
Speaker 3: no answer is an answer, No reply is a reply.
Speaker 3: Like at some times, silence speaks louder than any of
Speaker 3: the other things that could or should be said. And
Speaker 3: now I'm not saying that that's the right way, Like,
Speaker 3: I definitely don't think that being ghosted or being given
Speaker 3: zero explanation as to why a relationship has broken down
Speaker 3: is fair. I think that, you know, we all should
Speaker 3: be treating people with empathy and care and compassion, but
Speaker 3: you can't excit expect that from everybody, And so if
Speaker 3: you're not getting it from the source, then you have
Speaker 3: to be able to give it to yourself.
Speaker 1: And the key is learning to live with ambiguity. The
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is, at some stage of your life,
Speaker 1: whether it is work or love, or friendships or family,
Speaker 1: there's going to be a situation where you're not going
Speaker 1: to get answer. You're not going to know why, and
Speaker 1: you're not going to know how, you're not going to
Speaker 1: know when, and you're not going to know where, and
Speaker 1: you're not going to know what to do with it.
Speaker 1: Life goes on. And this sounds really really blunt, and
Speaker 1: I don't mean it to be, but whether you sit
Speaker 1: in your room and dwell on that for a year,
Speaker 1: and cry, or you go out and make the most
Speaker 1: of it and go and get a new job, or
Speaker 1: go and date. Life is going to go on regardless.
Speaker 1: So it's really really important. And I can't drive this
Speaker 1: home enough. It's important to know that the quality of
Speaker 1: your life is dependent on your reaction to any given situation.
Speaker 1: You can't change the fact that the situation has happened.
Speaker 1: All you can do is control what you do with that,
Speaker 1: what energy you put into it, and how you move forward.
Speaker 1: I did ask Matt how does he go about it, enclosure,
Speaker 1: and he was like, the best way to get over
Speaker 1: it is to get on top of it or under
Speaker 1: it whatever. It is not necessarily the best way, guys.
Speaker 3: We're not saying go out there and fuck your way
Speaker 3: of feeling better. But I'm sure it works for some people.
Speaker 3: But one of the things I did read, and I
Speaker 3: actually it's a lie.
Speaker 1: I listened to it.
Speaker 3: It was a podcast, and the podcast I listened to
Speaker 3: was called The Overwhelmed Brain, and it talks all about
Speaker 3: like obsessive thinking and how sometimes this idea of closure
Speaker 3: is actually more closely linked to like obsessive thought patterns
Speaker 3: than what it actually is related to that person or
Speaker 3: that like breakdown of the relationship. But I really liked
Speaker 3: the way this podcast episode, and I can put the
Speaker 3: links in show notes. I really liked the way that
Speaker 3: it kind of summarized how you can get closure if
Speaker 3: you don't feel like you've received it from the person.
Speaker 3: And instead of looking at the thing that happened, so
Speaker 3: instead of looking at the job loss, or instead of
Speaker 3: looking at the relationship as in like you've been broken
Speaker 3: up with instead of looking at the final nail in
Speaker 3: the coffin, that's not your closure, that's the full stop
Speaker 3: at the.
Speaker 1: End of the sentence. The closure comes from the signs.
Speaker 3: And one of the big things which I always find
Speaker 3: really interesting is that we have received so many ask
Speaker 3: guncut questions which were, like, my boyfriend broke up with me.
Speaker 1: I didn't see it coming. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: get over it.
Speaker 3: Yes, we weren't having as much sex anymore, or yes
Speaker 3: we hadn't been spending as much time together, but I
Speaker 3: thought we were good. But now the relationship's over. And
Speaker 3: so this podcast episode I listened to, it was like,
Speaker 3: instead of focusing on the full stop, instead of focusing
Speaker 3: on the fact that that person has broken up with you,
Speaker 3: you have to focus on the signs, the fact that
Speaker 3: you weren't having as much sex anymore, the fact that
Speaker 3: maybe your communication had been breaking down, the fact that
Speaker 3: like whatever they had been gas ladding you and you'd
Speaker 3: been finding all of the little things that were actually
Speaker 3: telltale signs that were showing you that actually your relationship
Speaker 3: was disintegrating. That is your closureP They're the things that
Speaker 3: you need to focus on. And instead of trying to
Speaker 3: like bundle it up and put a nice bow on it,
Speaker 3: pick up all those signs. Write them down if you
Speaker 3: need to. That might be helpful. Write down all the
Speaker 3: things that were happening that like maybe at the time
Speaker 3: you didn't acknowl maybe you didn't bring it up because
Speaker 3: you didn't want to have a fight. You didn't want
Speaker 3: to have any confrontation. You didn't want to have to
Speaker 3: deal with like it seems like too big a issue
Speaker 3: to deal with. Now, think about what those things were,
Speaker 3: write them down, and that becomes your closure. That becomes
Speaker 3: the reason why that scenario is the way it is.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how do you deal and how do you heal?
Speaker 1: I love that I made that up. That was pretty good.
Speaker 1: Number one, And we talk about this in a lot
Speaker 1: of situations. But number one is healthy boundaries. And I
Speaker 1: really love this analogy. If you keep on picking a scab,
Speaker 1: it's not going to heal. But don't pick the scab. Also,
Speaker 1: don't text them back. So essentially that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: Don't go for coffee DAIDs, don't do drive bys, don't
Speaker 1: try and run into them, don't stalk their social media,
Speaker 1: don't clean their phone number, don't text them at least
Speaker 1: for a while. We're not saying you have to cut
Speaker 1: these people out of your life forever. Don't watching their
Speaker 1: stories on Instagram, stop making fake Instagram accounts so you
Speaker 1: can go follow them. But it's really important. And obviously
Speaker 1: this is not going to be for everyone. Some people
Speaker 1: are going to have relationships where they're children involved, and
Speaker 1: they absolutely have to have that communication. That's so fine.
Speaker 1: But the most important thing here is to set boundaries.
Speaker 1: Regardless of your situation, have boundaries. If you don't have
Speaker 1: to see them for a period of time, like you
Speaker 1: don't have children, then yeah, you need to cut them off.
Speaker 1: Otherwise you're just gonna keep picking up that scab.
Speaker 3: Okay, the second one that BRIT's put on this list,
Speaker 3: which I really fucking like how she's titled this. She's
Speaker 3: just written get a life, which I'm gonna say this
Speaker 3: is my favorite point of the entire episode so far
Speaker 3: in a nice.
Speaker 1: Cute way there, but like, get alive, but get alife,
Speaker 1: get alive, and I know that that is going to
Speaker 1: hit so hard for someone who is in the absolute
Speaker 1: trenches of feeling this. But get a different life, get.
Speaker 3: A different life, get a new identity, find new things
Speaker 3: that give you purpose. So I think, like, not only
Speaker 3: just get a life, but work on the things and
Speaker 3: figure out the reasons why that relationship was so important. Like,
Speaker 3: of course relationships are important, and of course you're gonna
Speaker 3: love someone for who they are, but if that person
Speaker 3: was the sole source of why you loved, if they
Speaker 3: were your sole source of why you felt happy, And
Speaker 3: this is the really dangerous thing that we can do
Speaker 3: in relationships, is we can put our entire happiness in
Speaker 3: somebody else, and so when they leave, we're like, well,
Speaker 3: how am I ever going to be happy again? Because
Speaker 3: I don't have that person in my life. It's really
Speaker 3: important that, regardless of how strong and how healthy and
Speaker 3: how wonderful your relationship is, that you still have other
Speaker 3: things in your life that give you purpose and that
Speaker 3: you still have other things in your life that give
Speaker 3: you value.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's just starting to go to a new
Speaker 1: local cafe instead of going to the same place that
Speaker 1: makes you think of them. Maybe it's a new hobby
Speaker 1: or a new sport. Maybe it's like Laura where she
Speaker 1: took up solcial lessons. I took up Italian classes at
Speaker 1: a local tape. And it's like having great friendships. It's
Speaker 1: not just like as soon as you get in a
Speaker 1: relationship allowing everything else to go by the wayside, because
Speaker 1: you invest one hundred percent in that person, Like that's
Speaker 1: so important. And I think that when breakups are so
Speaker 1: difficult and you require so much closure, it may be
Speaker 1: because there's other things in your life that are lacking. Thirdly,
Speaker 1: be patient. Time really does heal all wounds. Be kind,
Speaker 1: You're allowed to be sad, You're allowed to sit in
Speaker 1: those feelings. When I say time heals all wounds, time
Speaker 1: also needs a helping hand. So ultimately, what we want
Speaker 1: to end on is know that you as an individual
Speaker 1: are very capable and are complete control of what you
Speaker 1: do with your thoughts and feelings. And I think that
Speaker 1: is really really important whether you really want to go
Speaker 1: and you're like dying to text them, you're dying to
Speaker 1: be angry at them. You din't ask them questions, write
Speaker 1: them down, Just write things down. You'll feel so much better.
Speaker 1: Call a friend and say what you want to say
Speaker 1: to the friend because quite often you just want to
Speaker 1: vent and you don't really care who you vent to.
Speaker 1: Laura and I do that all the time. We used
Speaker 1: to go like, we all call each other all the
Speaker 1: time and just vent whatever we want to say. I've
Speaker 1: saved myself so many arguments by just texting them to
Speaker 1: the bridge, you know, we just talk her off a cliff.
Speaker 3: But I think like at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: and maybe I don't know if you agree with me
Speaker 3: on this, brit but like genuine closure for me anyway,
Speaker 3: is when I can look back on a relationship or
Speaker 3: look at a person who I've had a big fooling
Speaker 3: at with and think to myself, I wish them well,
Speaker 3: Like I don't hold any resentment, I don't hold any anger.
Speaker 1: I don't feel sad or jealous or anything.
Speaker 3: When they're moving on with their life or they have
Speaker 3: found a new partner or whatever it is for me,
Speaker 3: genuine closure. And I mean, obviously I have genuine closure
Speaker 3: with all my relationships ex relationships now, but pre Matt,
Speaker 3: it was when I could look at that person and go,
Speaker 3: I don't wish ill of you. I want you to
Speaker 3: be happy. I want you to move on with your life,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't hurt me that you're moving on with
Speaker 3: your life.
Speaker 1: That's what I think genuine closure is. Amen. It's a
Speaker 1: really really beautiful thing when you get to a point
Speaker 1: where life can throw something at you and you know
Speaker 1: you're equipped to deal with it. It is a really
Speaker 1: really nice thing. And I do feel like I'm lucky enough.
Speaker 1: I wasn't always, but I'm lucky enough to be in
Speaker 1: a place now where I do feel like I can
Speaker 1: deal with a lot. And that's not to say I
Speaker 1: don't get sad and depressed and angry and mad, but
Speaker 1: I know what to do with it now, and I
Speaker 1: know where to channel my feelings and my anger and
Speaker 1: my thoughts. And honestly, when I learned that skill, it
Speaker 1: changed my whole life because there's a level of acceptance.
Speaker 1: And again I'm talking about guys. This is just in
Speaker 1: relationships and jobs. I do not want to put the
Speaker 1: death or the loss of someone in your life into
Speaker 1: this category, because that is a whole nother ballpark, and
Speaker 1: of course you're going to need a whole lot of
Speaker 1: time to heal with that and a whole lot of
Speaker 1: help from a lot of people. So we're not talking
Speaker 1: about that. But I'm one hundred percent and I've put
Speaker 1: a lot of work into it to get to this place.
Speaker 1: You could throw anything at me now and I'll feel
Speaker 1: the feelings and it will still hurt, but I don't
Speaker 1: let it stop me from living my best life in
Speaker 1: the future. I just know how to handle it and
Speaker 1: move forward. And I really hope that everyone can get
Speaker 1: to that point, because one hundred percent changes your whole life.
Speaker 3: And I hope like listening to this episode as well,
Speaker 3: like you get something out of this conversation, and if
Speaker 3: you ask somebody who has been holding onto something or
Speaker 3: feeling like you aren't able to move on really thinking
Speaker 3: about how you can better invest in yourself, or what
Speaker 3: conversations you can have with your friends, or maybe go
Speaker 3: and speak to a psychiatrist or speak to a counselor
Speaker 3: in regards to like what can you do for yourself
Speaker 3: that will better put you in a position in the
Speaker 3: future to be able to go when somebody or if
Speaker 3: somebody walks out of your life, go, Okay, that hurts
Speaker 3: that they didn't take my whole sense of self with
Speaker 3: them the end. All right, guys, you know that we
Speaker 3: never finished an episode without our suck and our sweet
Speaker 3: our highlight and our low light of each and every week.
Speaker 1: And Brittany, you can go first, Okay, my suck was that.
Speaker 1: What's not was it is is ongoing, is that I
Speaker 1: froze my eggs last week. And what they don't tell you,
Speaker 1: and what you don't know is that you think once
Speaker 1: the freeze is over that it gets better because you're
Speaker 1: on two weeks of hormone injections. I'm days after now
Speaker 1: and I'm in so much pain still, so for like
Speaker 1: another ten days or so or until your next period,
Speaker 1: you are like, I look like I have a small
Speaker 1: child in my belly. You're so bloated, it's rock solid.
Speaker 1: It's very, very painful. I asked Laura to bring me
Speaker 1: some tea overfish and I I didn't have any like
Speaker 1: soothing belly tea.
Speaker 3: Also, britt kept on sending us videos of her off
Speaker 3: her face on Oh.
Speaker 1: My God, I was if you guys haven't seen my
Speaker 1: page yet. It was her face. I was off chops
Speaker 1: on drugs after the anesthetic, and for some reason I
Speaker 1: got my phone back.
Speaker 3: Somebody needed to take the girl's phone away, and I
Speaker 3: just started to message my group chat, my friends and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I don't remember doing it, and I'm just sending
Speaker 1: them ridiculous videos.
Speaker 4: So I've just come out of the anesthetic. That's so drowsy.
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm all the way back to normal yet.
Speaker 4: I better go before I say something stupid. Probably be
Speaker 4: good to red a podcast now, that'd be fun.
Speaker 1: This is one video I'll show you, Laura. I'm like
Speaker 1: seductively looking at the camera and I don't look away,
Speaker 1: and I'm drinking my sprite and I'm just looking at it,
Speaker 1: drinking it. And then at the end, I don't pray
Speaker 1: guyeicondact and I'm like, it's delicious and that's all I say.
Speaker 1: And that's the video. And I said that to my
Speaker 1: friends and I'm not like what, But I'm just stealing
Speaker 1: a lot of discomfort and pain. But it's so fine
Speaker 1: and it's so manual. But that's for sure, my suck.
Speaker 1: My sweet would have to be if you guys listened,
Speaker 1: I'm taking a little bit of Laura's sweet today. It's
Speaker 1: not the same sweet Laura, don't I literally just spoke
Speaker 1: about She was like, what is your suck?
Speaker 3: And you're sweet? And I told her my sweet and
Speaker 3: now she's stealing my no I see it happening, glazing
Speaker 3: over it.
Speaker 1: She was like, fuck, I don't have one. My sweet
Speaker 1: is a part of your sweets And I feel like
Speaker 1: you actually need to go first. Okay, guys, my sweet
Speaker 1: I'll jump here. You jump in. You know you say
Speaker 1: you suck first.
Speaker 3: We try and bring you these episodes with like high
Speaker 3: energy and lots of positivity. But I actually rocked up
Speaker 3: at BRIT's house in tears today because I just sometimes
Speaker 3: have the parental guilts, which I've been having really bad
Speaker 3: in the last little bit. Mollie has been sick this weekend,
Speaker 3: Lola has conjunctive, and I've just been kicked sideways from
Speaker 3: the whole parenting thing. And it's funny because I get
Speaker 3: a lot of people who message me in They're like,
Speaker 3: how do you manage to do it all? And the
Speaker 3: truth is I don't. Some days has their breakdowns too. Yeah,
Speaker 3: some days are great and some days, you know, I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm kicking goals. And then I have weekends
Speaker 3: like this weekend just passed, and I feel like a
Speaker 3: really really shitty mum, and like, look, Mully's at home
Speaker 3: and Laura's at home, they're both unwell, and Matt's with them.
Speaker 3: And I just did six Days by myself while Matt
Speaker 3: was in Hamilton Island, and like, I'm not a bad
Speaker 3: mum by leaving at home for two hours to come
Speaker 3: and do this record, but I feel like a bad mum,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I'm doing a shitty job and
Speaker 3: I just want to be home with my girls, so which.
Speaker 1: You're absolutely not, But I mean to try and make
Speaker 1: light of a situation. My favorite part of that situation.
Speaker 1: Obviously there's nothing good about it, but you and I
Speaker 1: have cry in front of each other so many times.
Speaker 1: And when Laura cries steal in front of me, she
Speaker 1: does this really cute thing. Well, she curls something a ball,
Speaker 1: and then she pulls her jump up like she's actually
Speaker 1: a child. She pulls her jumper over her head so
Speaker 1: her head is in like a turtle inside a Shellogy cries.
Speaker 1: I still like she won't let me just see a
Speaker 1: cry like a little scrotum that sucked back inside.
Speaker 3: I struggle with vulnerability, guys, and don't really cry in
Speaker 3: front of people, so I like to pull my shirt
Speaker 3: over my head and crime and I'm a real ugly crier.
Speaker 1: So yeah that's what I did. So yeah, look, I've been.
Speaker 3: Having some pretty hectic mum guilts lately and that's my suck,
Speaker 3: which I hope you can reason.
Speaker 1: Like you just said, you just did the six days
Speaker 1: on your own, and you're absolutely not being a terrible mother.
Speaker 1: And obviously I can't understand their parent guilds because I
Speaker 1: don't have children, but I can one hundred percent tell
Speaker 1: you you are a bloody good mom and you're doing
Speaker 1: a bloody good job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're the stupid thing about this is and
Speaker 3: like for me now, like I admit this now, because
Speaker 3: you know, we're one big life on Cut Family, But
Speaker 3: me saying on the podcast, like you know, obviously me
Speaker 3: coming and doing the record for two hours and Matt
Speaker 3: was away for six days, Like I'm not justifying that
Speaker 3: to myself, like I realized, I'm actually justifying that to
Speaker 3: people who are listening who might go, oh, well, you
Speaker 3: are a bad mum. For leaving your kids at home
Speaker 3: and they're not well crazy like that's what I think,
Speaker 3: you know, and like it's conjunct dividus and they're still
Speaker 3: a cult, like it's they're fine, But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think like anybody who has kids knows how you
Speaker 3: go through these stories of like some days you do
Speaker 3: really feel like you're nailing it. Another days you really
Speaker 3: feel like, wow, maybe I'm not that good at this
Speaker 3: whole parenting thing, and yeah, maybe it's important. Maybe like
Speaker 3: having this doubt and having this sort of imposter syndrome
Speaker 3: when it comes to being a mum makes us be.
Speaker 1: Better mums in the long run.
Speaker 3: But anyway, that's my as I suck my sweet is
Speaker 3: and my sweet will will be for a while. Was
Speaker 3: the bonus episode that we did last week, Guys, I
Speaker 3: have had so many of you messaged me. I've kind
Speaker 3: of forgot a story I told on the bonus episode.
Speaker 1: Was if you haven't listened to the bonus episode, you
Speaker 1: guys are missing out. It's like, it's my favorite episode
Speaker 1: we've done in a really long time.
Speaker 3: So you need to go back and listen to it.
Speaker 3: It's a bonus episode. On just accidentally unfiltered stories. So
Speaker 3: many of you messaged me about a story I told
Speaker 3: on there about how I used to date a guy
Speaker 3: who wanted to have sex with the back of my knee.
Speaker 1: Okay, he did. He had a lot of sex with
Speaker 1: the back of your knee, the knee fat when you
Speaker 1: crease it, because he wanted to have sex with all
Speaker 1: of you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, go listen to the episode. It's great, that's my sweet.
Speaker 3: It's really I go. Actually, every time I listen back
Speaker 3: to it, it makes me laugh. Okay, I hope it has
Speaker 3: the same effect for you.
Speaker 1: So my sweet is not like Laura's Sweet is a
Speaker 1: bonus episode and how many people wrote to her about it.
Speaker 1: My sweet is the fact that I was also getting
Speaker 1: a lot of messages about the episode in general, but
Speaker 1: about Laura's boyfriend wanting to have sex with her knee.
Speaker 1: But it's not mad now, guys, but Doris, I was eighteen.
Speaker 1: This is my favorite part. My sweet is getting a
Speaker 1: message from Laura that said, hey, Britt, I'm getting a
Speaker 1: lot of messages about a knee thing and how funny
Speaker 1: it is. What are they talking about? And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my fucking god. I was like, are you serious?
Speaker 1: And she's like, yeah, what was the knee thing? This
Speaker 1: was a day later. I was like, how have you forgotten?
Speaker 1: I was like, the knee thing where your X fucked
Speaker 1: you knee. She's like, oh, I forgot that, That's what
Speaker 1: they were laughing at. I was like, how have you
Speaker 1: forgotten the funniest story in existence?
Speaker 3: Okay, if you have no idea what we're talking about,
Speaker 3: go back listen to the bonus episode. You will not
Speaker 3: be disappointed. You will have a good chuckle. And that
Speaker 3: is in from us for today.
Speaker 1: Guys. I am sick of my own voice this week.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like we've been recording every
Speaker 1: single day. So that is me. I am tapping out
Speaker 1: and I'm going to eat some more ice cream because
Speaker 1: I'm an ice cream fiend. You know the drill. If
Speaker 1: you aren't part of the Facebook discussion group where you at,
Speaker 1: that's where all the magic happens, is where all the
Speaker 1: big juicy conversation happens, and that's where a lot of
Speaker 1: people are making friends. So that's life uncut Facebook. On
Speaker 1: Facebook discussion group, don't go into the page. I mean,
Speaker 1: do go into the page, but it's like secret squirrel clubs,
Speaker 1: So go onto the page and then go into the
Speaker 1: discussion group. Likewise, follow us on the Gram Life Uncut podcast.
Speaker 1: Keep your questions coming in to the Instagram dms, make
Speaker 1: sure you're title them ask Uncut. Also keep your funny
Speaker 1: accidentally unfiltereds coming in title them accidentally unfiltered. And please,
Speaker 1: if you haven't, if you are one of those scally
Speaker 1: wags that listens every week, you don't leave a review.
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you right now, your little fingers are free.
Speaker 1: So why won't you go on to Apple podcast, hit
Speaker 1: subscribe five stars and leave us a review because that
Speaker 1: people is what helps us grow and we will be
Speaker 1: so thankful. That is it from us.
Speaker 3: Tell your mum to you don teo dog, Tell your
Speaker 3: sister and your brother and everybody else in your family
Speaker 3: because you fucking lot the podcasts, and share the love
Speaker 3: because we love love