1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday, 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: the thirtieth of January. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. When it 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: comes to vaping, everything is about to change. Yesterday we 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: brought you part one of our Vaping series where we 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: went from the tobacconists to the lab to find out 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: what's really in a vape and spoiler alert, it's not 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 2: so good. So today we're going to find out what 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: the government's trying to do to stop nicotine disposable vapes 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: being sold at your local corner shop. If you haven't 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: listened to yesterday's episode, I recommend going back and starting 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: with that one before we get to part two. Let's 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: the headlines. 19 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 3: Universities Australia is calling for fee free study for people 20 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: from disadvantaged backgrounds to help ease cost of living pressures 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 3: and skills shortages. Comes after the federal government opened one 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: hundred and eighty thousand fee free places for TAFE students 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 3: last year. Universities Australia is now asking the government to 24 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: create a similar program to boost union enrollments in courses 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 3: where there are staff shortages. 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: This is very topical. Disposable vapes could be banned in 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: the UK under proposed laws announced by Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: The laws would make it illegal to sell tobacco products 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: to anyone born from two thousand and nine onwards. Under 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: new measures aimed at making vaping appear less appealing to 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 2: young people. Vape flavors could also be restricted, packaging made 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: plane and retailers forced to store vapes out of sight 33 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: of children. Sunak's Conservative Party has a majority in the 34 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: UK's House of Commons, but an election is expected later 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: this year. 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: Nicki Haley is criticized Republican officials for pressuring her to 37 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 3: drop out of the race against Donald Trump for the 38 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: Republican presidential nomination. Hailey and Trump are two of the 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 3: final candidates vying for the nomination. Hailey lost Republican primaries 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: to Trump in state of New Hampshire last week after 41 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: an earlier loss in Iowa. However, the former UN ambassador 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: said that she has every intention of campaigning through to 43 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 3: Super Tuesday on the fifth of March, and. 44 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: Today's good news, Australia has won the Netball Nations Cup champions. 45 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: The Diamonds defeated England by twenty points to finish their 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: undefeated competition runs sixty nine to forty nine. Sophie Garbin 47 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: was named the Player of the Match and Paige Hadley 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: was crowns the Player of the series. 49 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 4: Last episode, I set out to understand what's in a 50 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 4: vape and what they're doing to our health. Yeah, I 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 4: want to know what's in it, Like, is a nicotine 52 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 4: in it? Is there anything else we need to. 53 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: Be worried about? 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 4: But I kind of glossed over the fact that I 55 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 4: had strolled into a shop do you have a Vape 56 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 4: list and bought a nicotine vape without a prescription, which 57 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 4: has been illegal for some time. 58 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 5: They're being illegally sold containing nicotine, pretending to be nicotine free. 59 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 4: So why is something that's illegal still so readily available 60 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 4: at your local corner store? 61 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 6: Loophole. 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 7: None, nicotine were. 63 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 5: Going through a loophole and bypassing the current regulation. 64 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think there is a whole lot of confusion 65 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 7: about what's the law, What are the new laws, what 66 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 7: are the old laws? How is this any different. 67 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 4: From the daily ods? This is understanding Beepes Episode two. 68 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 4: How illegal are vapes? When vapes first entered the Australian 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 4: market around two thousand and eight, they were regulated on 70 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: a state and territory level, meaning things were pretty haphazard 71 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 4: and inconsistent. Technically, nicotine vapes weren't allowed to be sold, 72 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: but they still were so. Eventually, in twenty twenty one, 73 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 4: the federal government stepped in to reinforce the fact that 74 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 4: nicod teen vapes could not be sold anywhere in Australia 75 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 4: without a prescription. 76 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 7: That was already the law at a state level in 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 7: every state in Australia, So this was just clarifying Nope, 78 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 7: the supplies nationally, this is a federal law. 79 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 4: I've come to speak with Associate Professor Becky Freeman. She's 80 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 4: a public health expert at the University of Sydney and 81 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 4: a leading expert in tobacco control as well as all 82 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 4: things to do with vapor form. 83 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 7: And so we thought, okay, let's go down to our 84 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 7: local shops. See what's happening. Well, vapes are still widely 85 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 7: available for sale. 86 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 4: They're everywhere. 87 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 7: New vape shops are opening all the time, new convenience 88 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 7: retailers popping up. So you think, well, clearly this law 89 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 7: really had no impact at all. 90 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 4: We're going to come back to Becky, but first I 91 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 4: wanted to hear straight from the person actually in charge 92 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 4: of regulating vapes. It's been illegal to buy a nicotine 93 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 4: vape without a prescription in Australia for some time. Recently 94 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 4: I walked into a tobacconist and bought one. Why is 95 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: it still so easy to do that, Well. 96 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 8: Because they've been legal. Loofholes. 97 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 4: Mark Butler is the Federal Health Minister. Here's the person 98 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 4: that Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi has put in charge of 99 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 4: vapor forms. 100 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 8: There's been this distinction between nicotine vapes, which are illegal, 101 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 8: and non nicotine vapes, which are apparently completely legal. What 102 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 8: we know is the only reason people vape is to 103 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 8: get the nicotine hit. So what we've seen people overseas 104 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 8: bringing these things into Australia do is to try and 105 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 8: exploit that loophole. Present vapes has been non nicotine when 106 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 8: actually they contain heaps of nicotine products. 107 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 7: How do you tell the difference between a nicotine beat 108 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 7: and a non nicotine beat. You have to test it 109 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 7: in a lab. 110 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 4: Just a reminder, this is Associate Professor Becky Freeman, she's 111 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 4: a public health expert at the University of Sydney. 112 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 7: There's no sort of like sniff test we can do 113 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 7: at the counter. They're not labeled correctly, and so an 114 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 7: enforcement officer would go to see a convenience store, see 115 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 7: a product for sale that they suspected had nicotine in it, 116 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 7: send it down to colleagues in are We in Wollongong 117 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 7: to have it tested, invariably find it has nicotine in it. 118 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 7: Got back to the Sharp, seize those products. But by 119 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 7: that time so that Sharp is probably selling something else, 120 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 7: and so enforcement became, if not impossible, at complete nightmare. 121 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 4: You might remember that last episode, I visited the University 122 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: of Woollongong to see what was in the vape I 123 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 4: picked up at my local tobacconist. 124 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 5: Obviously they're really high concentration of nicotine. 125 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 4: But there were a bunch of other vapes getting tested 126 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 4: there too. As I talked me through, here are these 127 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 4: ones that you've purchased online. 128 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 5: So these are ones we purchased online or in stores. 129 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 4: This is doctor Jodi Mohler, Senior lecturer in the School 130 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 4: of Chemistry and Molecular Bioscience at the University of Wollongong. 131 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 5: And some of these are also ones that the New 132 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 5: South Wales Ministry of Health have confiscated from stores in 133 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 5: New South Wales. We actually have an example here of 134 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 5: one that this has a production date of if I 135 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 5: can find it June twenty twenty one. 136 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 4: JODI's showing me where the packaging on vapes used to 137 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 4: look like back before the government introduced their regulations in 138 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 4: October twenty twenty one. 139 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,559 Speaker 5: And there's a clear warning label mentioning nicotine on the front, 140 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 5: so it says this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an 141 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 5: addictive chemical, and that's very clearly on the front. 142 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 4: But after October twenty twenty one, the packaging looks a 143 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 4: bit different. 144 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 5: So this one exactly the same brand, exactly the same 145 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 5: model two months later and the word needs has been removed. 146 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 5: So as soon as the regulatory change was announced, these 147 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 5: manufacturers immediately shifted to change their packaging, and this still 148 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 5: does contain nicotine, even though it doesn't mention on the 149 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 5: packaging anywhere that it does. 150 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 7: So the prescription model for nicotine beeps has never been 151 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 7: working as it was designed. Because of this non nicotine report. 152 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: Back at the University of Sydney, Associate Professor Becky Freeman 153 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 4: tells me this is why last year in twenty twenty three, 154 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 4: the federal Health Minister Mark Butler announced some new reforms. 155 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 8: No more bubble gum flavors, no more pink unicorns, No 156 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 8: more vapes deliberately disguised as highlighter pins for kids to 157 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 8: be able to hide them in their pencil cases. 158 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: The government realized that simply cracking down on nicotine veeps 159 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 4: didn't work, there were too many loopholes. Instead, they decided 160 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 4: to try getting rid of disposable vps all together. 161 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 7: The new laws introduced for twenty twenty four and make 162 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 7: it really clear disposable vaps can't be sold, can't be available. 163 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 7: None of this back and forth testing relying on retailers 164 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 7: to do the right thing. Retailers have proven they can't 165 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 7: do the right thing. They saw illsted products in broad 166 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 7: Daly to teenagers. 167 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 4: You've known about that loophole for some time. Why has 168 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 4: it taken this long to crack down on this loophole. 169 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 8: I was really concerned that vaping rates were climbing dramatically 170 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 8: among younger people. It's still very news, so we were 171 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 8: gathering evidence about how dangerous that was. 172 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 4: I back in Canberra speaking with the Fed Health Minister 173 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 4: Mark Butler. 174 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 8: Originally we thought we would have to pass legislation through 175 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 8: every single parliament in the country, so every state parliament, 176 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 8: the Parliament Hearing Canber. That would have taken a lot 177 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 8: of time. So instead, what we've managed to do is 178 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 8: come up with a regulatory response that allows us just 179 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 8: to pass stuff hearing canbra and that will cover the 180 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 8: whole field. 181 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 4: If this was a simple story, that would be it. 182 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 4: There was a problem, a loophole in the legislation, the 183 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 4: government introduced new laws and problem solved, loophole closed. But 184 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 4: this is not a simple story. Remember how at the 185 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 4: lab in Wollongong, Jody showed me how deep manufacturers tapped 186 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 4: into a loophole by removing the word nicotine from their packaging. 187 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 4: Almost immediately after that twenty twenty one reform. 188 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,479 Speaker 5: These manufacturers immediately shifted to change their pocket packaging. 189 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 4: Where there are signs something simil ah might happen with 190 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 4: these new reforms. 191 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 5: This is called the iget bar. Yeah, so this is 192 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 5: the most popular device among younger people in and it's 193 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 5: clearly as you can see, it's absolutely everywhere. 194 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 4: You may not be familiar with the name I Get Bar, 195 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 4: but you are probably familiar with the vape. They're the 196 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 4: brightly colored kind of rectangular ones that say rock on 197 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 4: the front with the skull. If you're in a busy 198 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: public place right now, look around, because chances are someone's 199 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 4: holding one right next to you. 200 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 5: So this is a really really popular device. So in 201 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 5: May of twenty twenty three, the Health Minister announced that 202 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 5: disposables were going to be banned in Australia. 203 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 4: Making the I get Bar illegal. 204 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 5: Within a couple of months of that happening, we saw 205 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 5: this device. 206 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 4: Arrival while that Jodi is holding something new. It looks 207 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 4: like the iget bar, except this one is round instead 208 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 4: of a rectangle, and it's designed a bit differently. 209 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 5: So this is called the iget bar. Plus, this is 210 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: not disposable. This is actually a pod device. So this 211 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 5: is the battery and this is the pot. 212 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 4: So it's like the same thing. It's just this bit 213 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 4: comes off. 214 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 5: The exactly the same thing, except that bit coomes off 215 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 5: and you can see they're actually designed to look like 216 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 5: a bottle, not to look like a disposable device. So 217 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 5: they're deliberately trying to manipulate the market again to get these, 218 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 5: to get these into Australia. 219 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 4: So this year this might be the thing that people 220 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 4: have in their pencil cases. 221 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly right. 222 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 4: In case you need a reminder of how we got here. 223 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 4: Last year, the government announced they would be cracking down 224 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 4: on the import of disposable vapes from January one. What 225 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 4: Duty is saying is that the manufacturers of one of 226 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 4: the most popular disposable vapes quickly adapted to make a 227 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 4: vape that technically isn't disposable. It's like the government closed 228 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 4: the disposable vape door and vap makers just opened a window. 229 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 4: But it's possible the government saw this coming because they 230 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 4: already have more reforms on the way. 231 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 8: From the first of March, it will be illegal to 232 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 8: import and supply any any vape that does not comply 233 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 8: with TGA standards. 234 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 4: This is the Health Minister Mark Butler announcing new reforms 235 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 4: beyond just the crackdown on disposable verbes. Basically, the government 236 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 4: wants to introduce a new set of rules for any 237 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 4: veeps being imported or sold in Australia. 238 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 8: That it be nondisposable, that it be plainly packaged, that 239 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 8: it not be flavored, and that have a range of 240 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 8: other conditions about nicotine content and the absence of certain 241 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 8: chemicals we know to be particularly harmful. 242 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 4: What this means is that from March, the government plans 243 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 4: to make it illegal to import or sell any veap 244 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 4: without a prescription from a doctor. But to implement part 245 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 4: of these reforms, the government will need to introduce legislation, 246 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 4: and that legislation will need support from other members of 247 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 4: Parliament outside the government. How hard are you going to 248 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 4: push against the upcoming reforms. 249 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 6: I'll keep fighting. I'll fight every tooth in no way 250 00:12:59,720 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 6: I can. 251 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 4: This is Senator Matt Canavan from the Nationals. That means 252 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 4: he's part of the coalition opposition to the government. 253 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 9: I'm not a vapor. I don't encourage my kids or 254 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 9: anyone to vapor. I don't think it's the right thing 255 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 9: to do. But sometimes people are going to do things 256 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 9: that you don't think are right. And so there's already 257 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 9: a vibrant crime supply of vapes. I think a lot 258 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 9: of that is ending up in our schools, which is terrible. 259 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 9: And now that the government's going to effectively make it 260 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 9: illegal to buy a vape from anywhere but a pharmacy, 261 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 9: we're only going to supercharge that crime supply network. It's 262 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 9: only going to become a worse problem, in my view, 263 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 9: in our schools. 264 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 4: One key argument made by advocates for veeps is that 265 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 4: veeping can save lives. 266 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 9: Vaping has been a very effective way to give up smoking, 267 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 9: to give up a much worse habit, and all the 268 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 9: evidence out there is that vaping is much better for 269 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 9: your health, even though it's not something I'm encouraging, but 270 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 9: if you do find yourself addicted to smokes, vapes is 271 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 9: probably a better option. 272 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 4: There is some evidence that for some individuals a veep 273 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 4: will help them quit smoking, but the evidence also says 274 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 4: that for the majority of people who smoke who then 275 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 4: go on to vape, they don't quit smoking. 276 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 9: It was a couple of points, the Nina one. It's 277 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 9: not just some evidence that vapings effective quitting tool. It's 278 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 9: the conclusion of a thing called the Cochrane Review. The 279 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 9: Cochrane Review is a sort of a peer review of 280 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 9: the peer reviewed science. It's a collection of all the science. 281 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 9: And they updated their findings on vaping in November last year, 282 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 9: and they found very strongly that vaping is the most 283 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 9: effective smoking quitting tool. 284 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 4: We spoke to Senator mag Man Evan and he's a 285 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 4: staunch advocate for the legalization of vapes, and he told 286 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 4: us that vaping is the number one tool for quitting smoking. 287 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 6: Is that true? 288 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 10: So we know that about two thirds to three quarters 289 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 10: of people who have quit smoking successfully do so without 290 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 10: any specific aids. 291 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 4: This is Professor Emily Banks from the Australian National University. 292 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 4: She's a leading expert on the health impacts of vaping. 293 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 10: The other things that we see in our Australian community. 294 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 10: If you look at who is using e cigarettes, a 295 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 10: lot of people who are using e cigarettes are actually 296 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 10: smoking as well, so they're dual using and they might 297 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 10: be saying I'm using it to quit, but actually they're 298 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 10: continuing to do both, and in doing both, they're exposing 299 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 10: themselves to the hazards of both of those things. 300 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 6: The risks of both of those things. 301 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 10: When you look at young people, the majority of young 302 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 10: people who use e cigarettes had not smoked before they 303 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 10: started using e cigarettes. It's clearly not a product for 304 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 10: them to quit smoking. 305 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 4: It's about getting more people using it and how many 306 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 4: of them then go on to cigarettes. 307 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 10: So what we know is that young people who use 308 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 10: e cigarettes are three times as lightly to go on 309 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 10: to smoke as young people who don't. 310 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 7: Use e cigarettes. 311 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: Will you win the war? 312 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 8: And Vaves, Well, We're determined to stamp this out. 313 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 4: This is veederal Health Minister at Mark Butler. 314 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 8: This is so clearly a product now targeted at young people. 315 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 8: You know, the pretense that was made by the industry 316 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 8: years ago that this was a product for hardened, long 317 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 8: term smokers, people my age who might have been smoking 318 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 8: for thirty years has been showing to be complete rubbish. 319 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 8: This is not what that product is targeted at. It's 320 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 8: targeted at kids to get them hooked on nicotine and 321 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 8: then get them onto cigarettes a little bit later. And 322 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 8: you know, I just think it's become a source of 323 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 8: outrage to parents, to school communities, certainly is to me, 324 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 8: and I'm determined to do everything I can to stamp 325 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 8: it out. 326 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 4: Are you expecting a fight on these regulations. 327 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 8: We always prepare for a fight. 328 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 6: Don't have a lot of power. 329 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 9: I'm fighting against some of my own party, of course, 330 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 9: I was, I think the only liberal National Center who 331 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 9: voted to legalize vapes. 332 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 4: Just to reminder, this is National Senator Matt Canavan. 333 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 9: I see my job as trying to do what I 334 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 9: think is right for the country and trying to do 335 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 9: right for a lot of people out there who find 336 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 9: that vapes are a much easier way to quit smoking. 337 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 6: So that's what I want, that's the outcomes I want. 338 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 6: I'll just keep fighting for. 339 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 4: That next episode, the fight ahead, we're gonna look a 340 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 4: bit deeper at the role big tobacco has to play. 341 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 8: The tobacco industry has always fought very hard against these 342 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 8: sorts of regulations. 343 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 3: If I put it down to one thing, it is 344 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 3: access and power. 345 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 7: It is not time for us to cut ourselves on 346 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 7: the back and think, oh, John done, tobacco industry be No, 347 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 7: they'll be back. 348 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 4: This series was written and edited by me Nina Kopple. 349 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 4: Joe Kylie was our producer, Lucy Tassel was our fact checker, 350 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 4: and Billy fitz Simon's was our executive producer. 351 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 11: Hi, I am Billy and I'm the editor at The 352 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 11: Daily OS. Now, for those listening right now, it means 353 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 11: you've listened right to the very end of this episode, 354 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 11: and I just wanted to say a huge thank you 355 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 11: for listening to The Daily ODS. 356 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 8: Now. 357 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 11: If you're interested in helping us grow, there is one 358 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 11: thing you could do. If you could share this episode 359 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 11: to your Instagram stories. It will help share our content 360 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 11: to as many young people as possible, and most importantly, 361 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 11: it will inform them on what they need to know 362 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 11: about vaping. Thank you so much for your support and 363 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 11: they can't wait for you to hear episode three already. 364 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 4: And this is this is the Daily This is the 365 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 4: Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.