Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's exactly right. It's where our reaction doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily fit what's going on in front of us, although
Speaker 1: not always, you know, it may maybe a great fit
Speaker 1: of what's going on in front of us. But either way,
Speaker 1: we're being reminded of something that happened in our past.
Speaker 1: So we're being reminded of an experience within a parental
Speaker 1: relationship or within another relationship that we experienced as traumatic,
Speaker 1: and that old reaction just floods in. And there's a
Speaker 1: phrase that I really encourage people to focus on, which
Speaker 1: is if it's hysterical, it's historical.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Writers and Conquered podcast. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Georgie Stephenson, former lawyer turned entrepreneur, social media personality and
Speaker 2: personal development junkie. This podcast is for my girl who
Speaker 2: want to feed their mind with positive and expansive thoughts
Speaker 2: to help them step into their power and live their
Speaker 2: most authentic life. Which had a variety of topics including mindset, business, relationships, health,
Speaker 2: and so much more. Basically, wherever you are on your journey,
Speaker 2: I want to help you feel inspired and empowered to
Speaker 2: rise up and conquer your next bold move. I know
Speaker 2: that's going to look different for everyone, but just no,
Speaker 2: I'm right here by your side and that you have
Speaker 2: the RNC community behind you. Let's do this. Hello and
Speaker 2: welcome back to the Rise and Conquer podcast. Today I
Speaker 2: am joined by doctor Sarah Woodhouse. Sarah is a research
Speaker 2: psychologist of trauma. Her research explores how different ways of thinking, feeling,
Speaker 2: and being can affect trau symptoms. Sarah wrote a book
Speaker 2: called You're Not Broken, which discusses the ins and outs
Speaker 2: of trauma. Today we are diving into a book. We
Speaker 2: are discussing what exactly trauma is, how it can show
Speaker 2: up in our everyday lives, from health both physical and mental,
Speaker 2: to our relationships, even down to our finances. We also
Speaker 2: discuss how we can break that trauma loop. You guys know,
Speaker 2: I'm such a big advocate for talking about our trauma
Speaker 2: working through it. You guys know, I personally see a
Speaker 2: psychologist and it's definitely one of the best things that
Speaker 2: I have ever done. So I'm really excited for you
Speaker 2: guys to hear this episode, and I think you're really
Speaker 2: gonna love it and get a lot from it. Let's
Speaker 2: go straight into it, Doctor Sarah Woodhouse. Welcome to the
Speaker 2: Rise and Conquer podcasts.
Speaker 1: Thank you, it's so lovely to be here.
Speaker 2: I am so excited. My audience knows I am a
Speaker 2: self development junkie, and especially something I'd love getting into
Speaker 2: is limiting beliefs, which is pretty much what well, I
Speaker 2: guess my interpretation of what your book is about, You're
Speaker 2: not Broken, break free from the trauma and reclaim your life. So,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. And you're right. No, it's a really
Speaker 1: key piece of it. And it's why I called the
Speaker 1: book You're Not Broken.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It was all to do with kind of the beliefs
Speaker 1: that so many of us carry around that.
Speaker 2: And I love the title because I think sometimes we
Speaker 2: can think, oh my god, we've got all these issues,
Speaker 2: we've got all these trauma, traumas, we've got all this
Speaker 2: stuff happening are But I think the reality is most
Speaker 2: of us, well, I think all of us do have this,
Speaker 2: and even like you say in your book, these little
Speaker 2: traumas that you probably may think, it's not like something
Speaker 2: that bad happen, Why is this affecting me? But they
Speaker 2: can affect us in so many different ways.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Absolutely, that's just a key you know,
Speaker 1: key part of the book really is explaining, explaining those
Speaker 1: traumas that we don't often think of as traumas. You know,
Speaker 1: for many of us, it's it's the it's the relationship stuff.
Speaker 1: It's relational trauma, very often from the parental relationship, and
Speaker 1: so many of us carry it. And and as I
Speaker 1: explain it, you know how as a child these experiences
Speaker 1: like you know, feeling unseen, feeling unheard, having your ideas
Speaker 1: and feelings kind of dismissed or belittled. How if that's
Speaker 1: occurring regularly, you know, fairly constantly, we will react to
Speaker 1: that as if it's a trauma. Yeah, yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: You know, that's that's been one of the best things really,
Speaker 1: That's that's happened in terms of the trauma field over
Speaker 1: the last fifteen years, I would say, is total recognition
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: Huge and I I want to get into that in
Speaker 2: just a moment before we get into the book and
Speaker 2: all things trauma and limiting beliefs. This is a bit
Speaker 2: of a fluffy question beforehand, but as this is the
Speaker 2: Rising Conquer podcast, what is your favorite quote or motto
Speaker 2: that helps you rise and conquer?
Speaker 1: The one I've got so many. I've got so many
Speaker 1: little because they're almost like giving you their cues and
Speaker 1: they're just so important. So I've got so many. But
Speaker 1: the one that I that if I'm really feeling disempowered
Speaker 1: and really feeling yeah, I think disempowered is the right word.
Speaker 1: Disconnected from my strongest self, the one that I always
Speaker 1: lean on is I'm the queen of my life. And
Speaker 1: it just gets me like right in my gut. You know,
Speaker 1: even as I say, I feel really emotional because it's
Speaker 1: it's just so true for all of us, you know,
Speaker 1: and we have to recognize that life's in session, man.
Speaker 1: You know, we've got to we've got to take it seriously.
Speaker 1: We've got to create what we want. And I'm I'm
Speaker 1: the queen of my life. You know, I get to choose.
Speaker 1: I get to create what I wanted to create. And
Speaker 1: that little phrase reminds me of that, you know, the
Speaker 1: fact that I'm the boss here. You know, it's my
Speaker 1: life and I get to live it however I want.
Speaker 2: Ah, that is so simple but so powerful. I absolutely
Speaker 2: love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great, isn't it. I love it.
Speaker 2: And so for the listeners who don't know who you are,
Speaker 2: could you just give us a little snapshot. Yes.
Speaker 1: So I'm Sarah Woodhouse, doctor Sarah Woodhouse, and I am
Speaker 1: a research psychologist, which basically means I research. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm an academic rather than being clinical and treating people.
Speaker 1: I'm an academic and I'm a trauma expert. And I've
Speaker 1: spent about eleven years is academically researching trauma. I was
Speaker 1: funded by the UK Medical Research Council and worked with
Speaker 1: some absolutely incredible organizations therapists, and along the way worked
Speaker 1: in various kind of treatment centers and addiction centers. And
Speaker 1: I've just had a very broad, incredible experience. And alongside that,
Speaker 1: I've had my own journey with trauma and recovery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's me. I moved to Australia two years ago
Speaker 1: and very grateful given everything that's going on with COVID,
Speaker 1: especially very very very grateful to be here. And when
Speaker 1: I landed in Australia, I was up for different another
Speaker 1: research grant, but decided it was time to write a book.
Speaker 1: I felt very compelled me too. Movement was going on.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe some part of me new COVID
Speaker 1: was along the way, because it was only about eight
Speaker 1: months later. So, yeah, I wrote the book, and I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful in terms of the timing of it because
Speaker 1: I think it's perfect.
Speaker 2: A hundred percent. And I love that. I love like
Speaker 2: little intuition nudges and things where you're like, no, this
Speaker 2: is actually my next step. And the fact that you
Speaker 2: followed that is yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you because it did feel scary and i'd so,
Speaker 1: you know, we're all taught to see the ladder, aren't we,
Speaker 1: and just keep climbing up it. So you got to
Speaker 1: that stage you've got to keep going, keep going, keep going.
Speaker 1: So it felt like a real leap and a stretch
Speaker 1: to roll the dice as coming to Australia did. To
Speaker 1: be honest, we've had like three years of dice rolling
Speaker 1: and it's been phenomenally scary at times and without doubt,
Speaker 1: the best three years of my life. And I think
Speaker 1: my husband would say the same because we've just I
Speaker 1: feel like we've torn up the rule book. It's been
Speaker 1: really exciting.
Speaker 2: Oh I love that. I'm all about that, making your
Speaker 2: own rolls, making your own way. And so is the
Speaker 2: book out for the audience to buy yet, I know
Speaker 2: I got an advanced copy, but when is it coming out?
Speaker 1: It is. It came out on the thirtieth of March,
Speaker 1: so it is available. Yeah, it's in all most bookshops
Speaker 1: should have it, independent bookstores and all the big ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's there. It's available online as well, you know, book Topia,
Speaker 1: book Depository, Amazon. So yes, and it's doing really well,
Speaker 1: which just beyond congratulations. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Well it's yeah, it's such an amazing read. I got
Speaker 2: straight into it and loved it. So I was so
Speaker 2: excited to have you on the potty and you've heard
Speaker 2: it here. Guys. It is available. I'll put the links
Speaker 2: in the show notes, but without further I do. Let's
Speaker 2: get into it. So first of all, before we get into,
Speaker 2: you know, how we can change our trauma, how we
Speaker 2: can change our limiting beliefs and that side of things,
Speaker 2: I really want to get into what actually is trauma,
Speaker 2: because we did touch on this at the start. But
Speaker 2: I think some people, you know, they see trauma as
Speaker 2: if they saw a loved one die or if they
Speaker 2: had something very horrific happened to them. Like when I
Speaker 2: think of the word trauma, I think of, you know,
Speaker 2: people coming back from the war and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: So can you explain to us what trauma is.
Speaker 1: So essentially, it's a reaction. One of the big things
Speaker 1: I wanted to do with the book was bust myths
Speaker 1: about trauma because there are so many misconceptions about what
Speaker 1: it is, who it applies to, who has it. Trauma
Speaker 1: isn't a disorder. Post traumatic disorder is a name that
Speaker 1: we gave to very high levels of trauma symptoms in
Speaker 1: the seventies, but it's just a name. Trauma is a reaction,
Speaker 1: and it's a reaction to any experience, and that's really
Speaker 1: important that any experience that makes us feel overwhelmed, threatened,
Speaker 1: and out of control. So I really encourage people to
Speaker 1: focus on those three things what's going on. The reason
Speaker 1: we feel those three things is because our fight flight
Speaker 1: freeze response has been triggered, so there's a ton of
Speaker 1: hormones coursing through our nervous system. But what I personally
Speaker 1: find is that when I talk nervous system stuff, a
Speaker 1: lot of people check out. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is. Maybe I'm projecting, maybe it's just me, but
Speaker 1: when I mentioned nora adrenaline or adrenaline, I just feel
Speaker 1: like I lose people a little bit. So although I
Speaker 1: recognize and acknowledge that learning about what's going on in
Speaker 1: the nervous system is so important. Has been a really
Speaker 1: important part of my healing. I was thinking, it's really
Speaker 1: useful to use really human terms. So overwhelmed, threat and
Speaker 1: out of control. They're the three things, and if those
Speaker 1: three things are experienced in response to any event, they're
Speaker 1: the baseline for the traumatic reaction and any event, as
Speaker 1: you say, you know, when I say trauma, people think bushfires, floods, war, assault.
Speaker 1: You know, that's traditionally what we think of, and of
Speaker 1: course we do, because that's when we first noticed trauma.
Speaker 1: We first noticed it in the most extreme cases who
Speaker 1: were experiencing you know, extreme flashbacks and all the rest
Speaker 1: of those kind of PTSD symptoms. But gradually, as the
Speaker 1: research and therapy has moved on, we are recognizing and
Speaker 1: fully acknowledging that PTSD is not the only response to trauma.
Speaker 1: And so, yes, there's all these severe, big experiences, but
Speaker 1: then there are these commonplace, everyday experiences that can also
Speaker 1: lead to us feeling overwhelmed, threatened, and out of control.
Speaker 1: And that's particularly true for children.
Speaker 2: So interesting, I remember when I was kind of reading
Speaker 2: about that and yeah, I think when you I guess,
Speaker 2: I guess. For me, it felt like validation when I
Speaker 2: realized because I know we're going to probably get into it.
Speaker 2: But like you said, a lot of our limiting beliefs,
Speaker 2: or you know, our traumas and stuff can come from
Speaker 2: our parents and our childhood. And sometimes, like when I
Speaker 2: went to therapy and I was dealing with our sorry,
Speaker 2: working through a lot of things, I would feel guilty.
Speaker 2: Was I had the most amazing childhood. You know, I
Speaker 2: had the most loving, amazing parents. I had a really
Speaker 2: good you know, it's not like I went without and
Speaker 2: all these different things. So I remember I used to
Speaker 2: feel guilty for having traumas and I was like, but
Speaker 2: you know, my life was quote unquote perfect. But I
Speaker 2: think it's very validating to realize even if it is
Speaker 2: quote unquote perfect, you can still have stuff that happened
Speaker 2: in your life that are traumas that you know triggered
Speaker 2: these symptoms and other limiting beliefs. So in your book,
Speaker 2: I know that you go through four different types of trauma.
Speaker 2: Can you explain these? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that you've asked that. Actually I haven't been
Speaker 1: asked that in any of the podcasts. So I know
Speaker 1: it's really nice. So yeah, so I include four definitions
Speaker 1: of trauma, and what I'm trying to do in the
Speaker 1: book is what you'll find is that most trauma books,
Speaker 1: not all of them, but most of them from a
Speaker 1: specific therapeutic modality. So their long words, aren't they What
Speaker 1: I mean is that they're from a type of treatment perspective.
Speaker 1: So they give a fantastic explanation of trauma and how
Speaker 1: to heal it, but it's in like one tranch, so
Speaker 1: it's not broad, it's not covering the others. And I
Speaker 1: was absolutely determined to incorporate all the modalities, so that's
Speaker 1: why I did this. So for definition, so the first
Speaker 1: the first definition is a trauma is a perceived threat
Speaker 1: that overwhelms us and our ability to respond. And that's
Speaker 1: really what I was just talking about, you know, it's
Speaker 1: the overwhelm and the threat and the feeling out of control.
Speaker 2: So do you have an example of that?
Speaker 1: I mean, the truth is it could be anything, and
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, what I'm trying to do with the
Speaker 1: book is to stop people thinking so much about the
Speaker 1: event and to focus on the reaction. So a trauma
Speaker 1: is a perceived threat and I think that's a really
Speaker 1: important word because what I perceive is threatening will be
Speaker 1: different to what you perceive as threatening based on our conditioning,
Speaker 1: based on our fear conditioning. So that's a really important
Speaker 1: part of that definition. And in terms of what it
Speaker 1: could be, you know, it's those relationship if you're thinking
Speaker 1: about childhood, it's those relationship issues or dynamics that I
Speaker 1: first mentioned. So feeling unseen and unheard, any kind of
Speaker 1: boundary violation, and I'm not just talking here about you know,
Speaker 1: physical boundary violations. I'm talking about people not listening when
Speaker 1: you say no, you know, not listening to your opinions,
Speaker 1: any kind of enmeshment as well, which kind of goes
Speaker 1: along with those boundaries. There's so much in that relationship piece.
Speaker 1: But also it's not just that you know that there
Speaker 1: are you know, everyday slips and falls, strangers coming to
Speaker 1: the front door, routine medical procedures, going for your vaccinations.
Speaker 1: Your mum goes, oh, actually, this is a very common
Speaker 1: one I speak to about, speak to people about that
Speaker 1: often comes up as they do their work, one of
Speaker 1: their parents having been put in hospital for two weeks
Speaker 1: or three weeks or four weeks. You know, that's extremely
Speaker 1: traumatic for a child, not you know, not potentially a
Speaker 1: teenager who would be able to cognitively understand what's going on,
Speaker 1: but for a younger child that that would be that
Speaker 1: would be perceived as a huge threat. It would be
Speaker 1: felt as extremely overwhelming, and they would feel like they
Speaker 1: weren't able to adequately respond. So that's that's what that
Speaker 1: first definition is all about. Yeah, and then the second
Speaker 1: one is trauma is our unprocessed memory of the experience.
Speaker 1: So a lot of my work looked at memory and
Speaker 1: I was really it was really important to me to
Speaker 1: include this aspect of it because I find it to
Speaker 1: be really empowering when I explain it to people because
Speaker 1: essentially trauma is a memory issue because what's going on
Speaker 1: during so and each definition kind of leads on from
Speaker 1: each other. So if you take that child whose mums
Speaker 1: say had gone into hospital, that they perceived that event
Speaker 1: as experience as extremely threatening and overwhelming. Now, what goes
Speaker 1: on with our fight flight freeze is that our body
Speaker 1: is flooded with hormones and our mind is flooded hormones,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people miss that piece of it.
Speaker 1: So it is the body. Yes, So you're going to
Speaker 1: be experiencing anxiety like symptoms most likely, or if you've
Speaker 1: gone into freeze, you'll have kind of completely shut down
Speaker 1: or dissociated. But it also affects our thinking, It affects
Speaker 1: our cognition, so our prefrontal cortex kind of goes offline.
Speaker 1: So that's the bit that makes decisions, and it really
Speaker 1: affects our memory processing. So essentially, as those hormones course
Speaker 1: around our body, we can't remember in the way that
Speaker 1: we usually do. So normally we would expect it. We
Speaker 1: would any of our experiences are processed, and by that,
Speaker 1: I mean we understand them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: We we experience an event and we apply our own
Speaker 1: filter to it, so we understand it, we assimilate it
Speaker 1: within our entire life experience, and we kind of pop
Speaker 1: it in a box. That experience was sad or that
Speaker 1: experience confirms my belief of X y Z. We can't
Speaker 1: do that with trauma memories. Our memory literally isn't processing,
Speaker 1: can't process them because of that flood of hormones. So
Speaker 1: something really odd happens to the memory. And it's almost
Speaker 1: the way that I explain it is that it's almost
Speaker 1: like so instead of being So if you picture the
Speaker 1: process memory as kind of whole and complete and where
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be, the unprocessed trauma memory is in bits.
Speaker 1: It's kind of maybe it's attached to a little bit
Speaker 1: of it might be a physical feeling in our body,
Speaker 1: say a pain. Part of it might be a belief.
Speaker 1: Part of it might be a smell. Part of it
Speaker 1: might be an image. Part of it's a feeling, of course,
Speaker 1: So it's like this disp spread of sensory and emotional bits,
Speaker 1: and that's why we're triggered.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: That's why today if you're walking down the road, so
Speaker 1: this this fictatious person who you know, whose mum went
Speaker 1: into hospital, it's why when they're walking down the road
Speaker 1: and maybe they walk past the hospital and they see
Speaker 1: a woman going into it, why they might have a
Speaker 1: huge flood of fear adrenaline, suddenly feel extremely afraid, or
Speaker 1: whatever their triggered reaction might be. So that that memory
Speaker 1: piece explaining that's really important because it explains why we're
Speaker 1: triggered today. So essentially, trauma is a memory dysfunction. That's
Speaker 1: that's what it is, and it's really important. So even
Speaker 1: though nowadays we're so focused on explaining the somatic side
Speaker 1: of it, that cognitive piece of it is really really
Speaker 1: really important to remember.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, so you're kind of explaining that, you know
Speaker 2: what tram is, it could really be anything. It's really
Speaker 2: our perceived notion of what happened. I really want to
Speaker 2: get into how trauma can show up in different aspects
Speaker 2: of your life, so you know, relationship, physical, mental health, finances, work.
Speaker 2: Because I think I was a bit like when I
Speaker 2: was reading the book, I was like, I kind of
Speaker 2: know this, but it was almost like a bit shocking
Speaker 2: to see how much it can come up in something
Speaker 2: that is completely, you know, different to the trauma, if
Speaker 2: that makes sense. So I was wondering if you can
Speaker 2: kind of break that down.
Speaker 1: Yes, totally. So in the middle part of the book
Speaker 1: is my favorite part, and I explain how trauma shows
Speaker 1: up in our relationships, in our health, and in our work.
Speaker 1: And you know, the truth is so the first part
Speaker 1: of the book when I'm explaining all about trauma and
Speaker 1: I've got those definitions in there and really trying to
Speaker 1: get under the bonnet of what it is that really
Speaker 1: all comes from my research that is have academic hat
Speaker 1: on when I did that and it was really important
Speaker 1: to me to explain it in a in a an
Speaker 1: accessible way. But the middle parts it was all fresh research.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Obviously I drew on my knowledge, but had you know,
Speaker 1: so many interviews with people really trying to dig down
Speaker 1: into how it affects these different areas of our life,
Speaker 1: and and it was fascinating, you know. So so for
Speaker 1: in relationships, for example, the primary way that I talk
Speaker 1: about it affecting it is through being triggered. And this
Speaker 1: is true with romantic relationships or friendships or family relationships,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. If we so so say we've got
Speaker 1: relational trauma in particular, So there I'm talking about those
Speaker 1: kind of other other traumas, the ones that we the commonplace,
Speaker 1: every day ones that we didn't traditionally think of as trauma.
Speaker 1: So say we're focusing on that kind of relational trauma.
Speaker 1: If you imagine anyone who carries that when involved in
Speaker 1: any kind of uncomfortable relationship dynamic today as an adult,
Speaker 1: that they're possibly going to get triggered. And that could
Speaker 1: be you know, it could be a conflict, it could
Speaker 1: be someone someone using a certain tone of voice, It
Speaker 1: could be a comment someone makes it work you know,
Speaker 1: So they're really I'm focusing on the relationships, and really
Speaker 1: it's all to do with being triggered.
Speaker 2: Interesting, So you're saying, in a relationship with someone else, yeah,
Speaker 2: it can just be something. And so you're saying, look
Speaker 2: for the aspects of that relationship that kind of set
Speaker 2: you off. I'm not going to say for no reason,
Speaker 2: but yeah, set you off more than other things.
Speaker 1: No, it's true, and you're right, it's not for no reason,
Speaker 1: but it is. It is notable, isn't it? Because you
Speaker 1: are right? So I spoke to someone the other day
Speaker 1: and they they were explaining that they'd been triggered by
Speaker 1: I can't remember it was their partner had done their
Speaker 1: partner had it was something just totally innocuous, like had
Speaker 1: the partner had seen a cockquach, And they were kind
Speaker 1: of arguing about this cockquach, and we were both having
Speaker 1: this conversation about it's you know, if one of you
Speaker 1: has an extreme reaction, it's not actually about the thing
Speaker 1: in front of you. It's not actually about the cock coroach,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Yeah, So that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: It's where our reaction doesn't necessarily fit what's going on
Speaker 1: in front of us, although not always, you know, it
Speaker 1: may maybe a great fit of what's going on in
Speaker 1: front of us, but either way, we're being reminded of
Speaker 1: something that happened in our past. So we're being reminded
Speaker 1: of an experience within a parental relationship or within another
Speaker 1: relationship that we experienced as traumatic, and that old reaction
Speaker 1: just floods in. And there's a phrase that I really
Speaker 1: encourage people to focus on, which is, if it's hysterical,
Speaker 1: it's historical, which is just so cheesy, but I love
Speaker 1: it because it's just so true. You know, if your friend,
Speaker 1: your mum, your partner, whoever it is, is having an
Speaker 1: extreme reaction, I would always be saying that they are
Speaker 1: most likely not just responding to what's going on in
Speaker 1: front of them, but it's about something deeper. You know,
Speaker 1: something from their past has been triggered. And really what
Speaker 1: we're looking for is it's about strength of reaction and
Speaker 1: it's about repetition. So doing it once it still indicates
Speaker 1: that something's been triggered, but really it's the repetition. So
Speaker 1: if you find yourself responding strongly in response to the
Speaker 1: same type of situation or the same type of trigger
Speaker 1: the same thing that your partner does, or your friend does,
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. If it's happening often repeatedly,
Speaker 1: then I would be saying, Okay, we've got a pattern here.
Speaker 1: Your past rum is being triggered. There's something we need
Speaker 1: to look at and heal. Because our triggers really are
Speaker 1: the pathway to healing. They show us what is unresolved
Speaker 1: and what needs to be resolved.
Speaker 2: Okay, rn C fam, I'm going too quickly interrupt myself
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Speaker 2: spelled completely out, no symbols, and I will put a
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Speaker 2: show notes. But enough about wellness, Let's get back into
Speaker 2: the show. And I always find in regards to relationships,
Speaker 2: like where where am I really so kind of feeling
Speaker 2: like a victim? Like where am I hate again? Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you said, like showing up in these kind of
Speaker 2: bigger triggered ways, But also where am I feeling like, oh,
Speaker 2: poor me and very much like this person has done
Speaker 2: something to me and very victim by that person, which
Speaker 2: for me has come up.
Speaker 1: Yes, totally, that's a really common, very common relationship reaction,
Speaker 1: I would say, is going into victim? You know that
Speaker 1: really is. And in the book I do detail because
Speaker 1: it's so important to because because relationships are so complicated
Speaker 1: and so glopy, you know, I think the word I
Speaker 1: use in the book, or the phrase I using the
Speaker 1: book is it's like a muddy pain. It's just really
Speaker 1: glopy and sticky and confusing. It can all just feel
Speaker 1: a bit much. And that's especially true if you have
Speaker 1: any kind of relational trauma from childhood. That's it's going
Speaker 1: to feel especially difficult, especially can using. So it was
Speaker 1: really important to me to kind of pull it apart.
Speaker 1: So I list all, or as many as I could,
Speaker 1: the main ones that I've seen that the relationship triggers,
Speaker 1: so the things that can trigger us, and I also
Speaker 1: list the reactions that I've seen or personally experienced, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think that allows people to find some clarity,
Speaker 1: which is really what the book is all about, and
Speaker 1: what my work is all about is helping people pull
Speaker 1: it apart, which in itself that insight and awareness it's
Speaker 1: really healing.
Speaker 2: Huge, huge, And so let's go on to health because
Speaker 2: this was so interesting to me. So you're saying, you know,
Speaker 2: our traumas can show up in our health. Can you
Speaker 2: kind of explain to us how they can sharpen our
Speaker 2: physical health?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I've got to be honest, that is so
Speaker 1: broad that it's hard for me to give a really.
Speaker 2: What about with our relationship with food? Because this is
Speaker 2: something that I have had with my past.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, isn't it so common? You know? And the
Speaker 1: reason I do that so so the so the chapter
Speaker 1: is all about how trauma affects our health, and I
Speaker 1: detail how it affects our coping mechanisms, in particular food
Speaker 1: and alcohol. And the reason I do that is because
Speaker 1: so many of us, you know, thinking of food, now,
Speaker 1: so many of us do you have a difficult relationship
Speaker 1: with food, And I'm picking that apart in the context
Speaker 1: of trauma and explaining why that happens. Really, because food
Speaker 1: is about comfort, right, you know, it's it's and in
Speaker 1: its and in its most innocent form, it's extremely joyful.
Speaker 1: It's coming in on a cold day having a hot
Speaker 1: bowl of soup. You know, you may be a bit hungry.
Speaker 1: It's a comforting thing. But because it's comforting if we
Speaker 1: have trauma, so if we carry trauma and we're experiencing
Speaker 1: often experiencing these kind of overwhelming triggered reactions, we can
Speaker 1: end up reaching for that comfort in more of a
Speaker 1: dysfunctional way, as so many of us do. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: I would say it's one of the main coping you know, dysfunctional,
Speaker 1: disempowering coping mechanisms that I encounter on a daily basis
Speaker 1: with people. So so I just knew that had to
Speaker 1: be in there and had to be explaining what that's
Speaker 1: about and you know a little bit about kind of
Speaker 1: how we can move through it.
Speaker 2: So you're saying these, you know, these relationship with foods,
Speaker 2: with alcohol and those sorts of things can actually be
Speaker 2: from a pass trauma or almost like a crutch that.
Speaker 1: You know very often, you know, one of the one
Speaker 1: of the questions people ask me the most, really it's
Speaker 1: just as so often is but how do I know?
Speaker 1: Like what are the main signs? And the one that
Speaker 1: I always say is the biggest red flag is if
Speaker 1: people are using compulsive avoidant coping mechanisms. You know, for me, honestly,
Speaker 1: I would go as far to say that I have
Speaker 1: never worked with anyone who hasn't in some way or another,
Speaker 1: developed some kind of avoidant coping. And you know, that
Speaker 1: might look like obsessively working. You know, that might be
Speaker 1: you know, another word that would be workholism. But it
Speaker 1: could be obsessively thinking about your projects and you and
Speaker 1: your work. It could be distracting yourself with your phone,
Speaker 1: It could be compulsive eating, it could be compulsive busyness.
Speaker 1: I see that so often, this kind of tidying the house,
Speaker 1: running from appointment to appointment. You know, anything that is
Speaker 1: pushing our feelings away from us is avoidant coping. You know,
Speaker 1: we're avoiding the cape, We're avoiding the feeling as a
Speaker 1: way to cope because it feels too much, so we
Speaker 1: just run from it. And actually that keeps us stuck
Speaker 1: in the cycle of reactions, because really what we need
Speaker 1: to do is move towards our feelings to release them.
Speaker 2: So interesting, So I know you also in the book
Speaker 2: you chat about, you know, how the trauma can affect
Speaker 2: our education, our finances, our work, and you know, it's
Speaker 2: much like what you kind of just went into them.
Speaker 2: But something that you just said, which I really want
Speaker 2: to chat about, is breaking the trauma loop. So, like
Speaker 2: you said, it's almost like we are unaware. We're just
Speaker 2: you know, we're getting triggered or we're addicted, we're using
Speaker 2: things as a crutch, and I guess because it feels
Speaker 2: like what we've always done. I think it can be
Speaker 2: sometimes super hard to even be aware. But you know,
Speaker 2: that's what's so great about the middle section of this
Speaker 2: book is we're like having light bulb moments and we're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: so this is interesting, But then how do we break
Speaker 2: the trauma loop? So this is a very exciting part
Speaker 2: of the book for me because, like I said, I
Speaker 2: love I love self development. I love getting into, you know,
Speaker 2: the actual how aspect, and I very much see this
Speaker 2: podcast as giving the audience actionable tools. So can you
Speaker 2: kind of get into the how to break the trauma
Speaker 2: loop and that side of things?
Speaker 1: Yes, I would love to talk about that, and there
Speaker 1: are so many different ways that we can do it,
Speaker 1: you know. And in the book, I include seven tools
Speaker 1: and they are all designed to help us break the
Speaker 1: cycles that we're trapped in. Because the thing that your
Speaker 1: listeners should know is that these traumatic reactions happen in
Speaker 1: a kind of cycle. So initially you're triggered, and then
Speaker 1: you experience the kind of physical and emotional reaction, and
Speaker 1: then very quickly it's followed by a cognitive reaction. So
Speaker 1: that will show up in your beliefs and your thinking,
Speaker 1: so like negative spiraling thinking or those old beliefs that
Speaker 1: we were talking about, and then almost always it's going
Speaker 1: to sharpen your behavior and most often, like I said,
Speaker 1: that's a kind of avoidant coping. So my whole philosophy
Speaker 1: is around, you know, figuring out ways to get out
Speaker 1: of that loop. And there are so many different ways
Speaker 1: to do it. Want you know, I did just just
Speaker 1: mention really one of the best ways to do it
Speaker 1: is to learn to and it's so hard, it's so
Speaker 1: simple and so hard, but to learn to be with
Speaker 1: our feelings instead of running from them, because we become
Speaker 1: trapped in these cycles. If you think about it, that
Speaker 1: behavioral push to push away our feelings is then keeping
Speaker 1: us trapped in the pattern and in the cycle. So
Speaker 1: we need to a simple way of doing that is
Speaker 1: to be with our feelings. So that can be as
Speaker 1: simple as you know, when you realize that you're feeling shame,
Speaker 1: or you're feeling anxiety, if you're feeling afraid, whatever it
Speaker 1: might be, or you say you realize your thoughts are spiraling,
Speaker 1: or all those old beliefs have been triggered, just pausing.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds like maddeningly simple, But what
Speaker 1: we have been taught and conditioned to do is to run.
Speaker 1: So we feel it, like we'll notice in a kind
Speaker 1: of half way, and then we run from it, we
Speaker 1: get on with the day. We you know, we clean something,
Speaker 1: we get on with work, we look at our phone,
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, we go and eat something. And
Speaker 1: actually the healing piece there is to pause and acknowledge
Speaker 1: how you're feeling. And it's such a powerful thing to
Speaker 1: do because healing from trauma is all about strengthening the
Speaker 1: mind body connection. So what's going on is we kind
Speaker 1: of cognitively or consciously notice something in our body, because
Speaker 1: that's where our feelings are experienced, right, They're in our body.
Speaker 1: So we'll notice that we're feeling a little bit ashamed
Speaker 1: or we're feeling anxious, and we immediately pull up an
Speaker 1: out of it. And what we need to do is
Speaker 1: come back down into it and so notice what's going on,
Speaker 1: but cognitively acknowledge it. So say to ourselves, I've been triggered,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling really ashamed, or I've been triggered, I'm feeling
Speaker 1: really anxious, or whatever it might be, I've been triggered,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling really angry. And then so kind of pulling
Speaker 1: the mind body together by then allowing the feeling and
Speaker 1: just noticing what's going on in your body. So, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, my jaw is really tense, I've got a
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a pain or tension in the
Speaker 1: back of my neck. My shoulders are really tight, my
Speaker 1: heart's be beating. And the more we do it, the
Speaker 1: more we can be with our body. It's fascinating, it
Speaker 1: really is. When you start working this way and actually,
Speaker 1: and this doesn't have to take long. I'm not saying, like,
Speaker 1: take an hour out of your day to just sit
Speaker 1: and feel your feelings. I'm saying, when you notice an uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: negative feeling, just pause, acknowledge it in your mind, and
Speaker 1: just notice where it is in your body, you know,
Speaker 1: And that is one of the simplest and quickest ways
Speaker 1: to kind of step out of the trauma loop because
Speaker 1: allowing our feelings to be and do what they need
Speaker 1: to do, it helps them resolve. Because what you're also
Speaker 1: going to realize is when you're with that feeling, you
Speaker 1: might realize that your eyes are prickling and you need
Speaker 1: to cry and you've got to let yourself. Or you
Speaker 1: might realize that you have a ton of pressure in
Speaker 1: your arms you feel like you want to punch, so
Speaker 1: you punch the air. It's also the kind of resolution
Speaker 1: piece of it is allowing your body to do what
Speaker 1: it needs to do. Maybe it needs to shout, maybe
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, maybe it needs to cry,
Speaker 1: maybe it needs to make a call, like maybe you
Speaker 1: just know you need to speak to someone. But it's
Speaker 1: kind of understanding that feelings have a beginning, middle, and
Speaker 1: end if we allow them to and see it through,
Speaker 1: see the rise and fall of it, like the bell
Speaker 1: curve of it. But it's so simple, and I get
Speaker 1: that it sounds so simple, but I've been practicing this
Speaker 1: for probably I would say, seventeen eighteen years, and still
Speaker 1: there are times when I can't do it, when instead
Speaker 1: of pausing and just being with my feelings, I run
Speaker 1: from them. So it's simple, but it's difficult. But it
Speaker 1: comes with practice, it really does. Like the more you
Speaker 1: do it, the better at it we get. And it's
Speaker 1: a really exciting journey, Like it's a really exciting way
Speaker 1: to walk because it's also about embodiment. It's about reconnecting
Speaker 1: to your body and your authentic self.
Speaker 2: I absolutely love it, and I love that you said
Speaker 2: it sounds simple, but it's so powerful because it's so true.
Speaker 2: I remember doing some work where I realized I was
Speaker 2: just so disconnected from my feelings. And you know, my
Speaker 2: psychologist would ask, so, how do you feel? And I
Speaker 2: used to give her a word that it wasn't a feeling,
Speaker 2: it was a logical thought. And it's almost like I
Speaker 2: had trouble articulating feelings because I would never feel them.
Speaker 2: I would push them away, and then that manifested in
Speaker 2: anxiety like a workaholic, that sort of side of things too.
Speaker 2: And I noticed such a huge difference when you actually
Speaker 2: just feel your feelings. And for me, it felt almost
Speaker 2: like painful and very much like shameful to feel feelings,
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't do it and I would push it down.
Speaker 2: But when I started actually feeling the feelings and doing
Speaker 2: what you're saying now, Sarah is, I realized it wasn't
Speaker 2: that bad, and I was like, oh okay. Like once
Speaker 2: I had done the process and like you said, pause
Speaker 2: felt the feeling and it left, I was like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: I don't actually have to keep all these feelings bottled up.
Speaker 1: I so appreciate you sharing that, and you articulated it
Speaker 1: so beautifully because and I would say, you know, from
Speaker 1: where I'm standing, your experience of not being able to
Speaker 1: feel your feelings from feeling detached from your body. You know,
Speaker 1: they are all signs of relational trauma. So no matter
Speaker 1: how perfect I'm doing like air quotes now, no matter
Speaker 1: how perfect our childhood was, we can all experience you know,
Speaker 1: we can all experience this, that, this, and many of
Speaker 1: us do you know what you've described, There are common
Speaker 1: symptoms of relational trauma of not being able to kind
Speaker 1: of be with our with our feelings, and that very
Speaker 1: often happens because of our experiences in childhood and not
Speaker 1: having our feelings validated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And also what I did find after really
Speaker 2: being aware aware of this, and for me it's always
Speaker 2: awareness comes first, and then I can kind of get
Speaker 2: into you know, past traumas and helping and breaking the
Speaker 2: loop and whatnot, is once that I actually started feeling
Speaker 2: the feelings. So something I used to talk to my
Speaker 2: psychologists about was I never because I never kind of
Speaker 2: like felt my feelings whole. It's almost like life felt
Speaker 2: a bit. I'm trying to articulate the world, like I
Speaker 2: don't want to say mundane, almost like like colorless, if
Speaker 2: that makes sense, and it's like something really amazing would
Speaker 2: happen and I'd be like, oh yeah, cool, something really
Speaker 2: bad would happen and I'd be like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 2: could deal with this. So it's like I had this
Speaker 2: coping mechanism of yeah, not feeling my feelings, but then
Speaker 2: you know, I couldn't feel that super joyful feeling. And
Speaker 2: so once I started feeling the feelings, connecting with my
Speaker 2: feelings and really connecting with my body, is I could, really,
Speaker 2: I guess, receive happiness, receive love, receive you know, those feelings,
Speaker 2: and life got a lot better.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I've got nothing to add to that because you
Speaker 1: just described it so beautifully. You know that that is
Speaker 1: exactly the problem is when we deny, if if we
Speaker 1: deny any feeling, we deny all of them. There is
Speaker 1: no middle ground there. You have to allow them all
Speaker 1: or else you do end up in this very kind
Speaker 1: of it's almost like everything has been dialed down. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that's very very very common.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, yeah, would you rather you know,
Speaker 2: not feel the highs and lows or would you rather just
Speaker 2: feel that kind of in the middle stage all the time.
Speaker 2: And I just realized I could, you know, I had
Speaker 2: lived my life for like that's for so long that
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I want to feel the highs
Speaker 2: and I want to feel the lows. So that was
Speaker 2: a huge breakthrough. And I think that's also me just
Speaker 2: explaining to the audience too for you R and c
Speaker 2: F them is you know, if you ask someone who
Speaker 2: you do feel a bit disconnected to your feelings and
Speaker 2: stuff happens and you almost feel like you can't receive
Speaker 2: the love, receive the joy, or even the bad feelings,
Speaker 2: it's definitely a sign that you're a bit to get
Speaker 2: disconnected in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely a sign you're disconnected. And I would be
Speaker 1: using the language of trauma, you know, then I would
Speaker 1: be I would be explaining that, you know, very it's
Speaker 1: very feasible that there's some older relational trauma there and
Speaker 1: that that's okay. You know, the whole point of the
Speaker 1: book is that we've all experienced trauma, that we've all
Speaker 1: experienced the traumatic reaction in one way or another. We
Speaker 1: all carry it. So when I say, you know, well,
Speaker 1: you know, do any of the listeners who are that
Speaker 1: could be trauma, I'm saying, yeah, you and the rest
Speaker 1: of us, you know, it's okay, It really is okay.
Speaker 1: It's a common protective reaction, and the best thing we
Speaker 1: can do is acknowledge it and call it what it is.
Speaker 1: You know, just call it what it is, and and
Speaker 1: you will begin to heal. You know, as you learn
Speaker 1: about it, you will begin to heal.
Speaker 2: And so Sarah, to finish off the interview, I want
Speaker 2: to chat about your tools in the book. So, guys,
Speaker 2: Sarah's got a chapter that is literally called the Tools,
Speaker 2: where she gives you I think there's seven yes that correct? Right? Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: so seven tools, which I loved reading because it's kind
Speaker 2: of like, you know, you can pick the ones that
Speaker 2: resonate with you. Our bit to finish, Sarah, I was
Speaker 2: wondering if you can go in and explain tool one
Speaker 2: because that was definitely my favorite because it's got a
Speaker 2: bit of spiritualness in it, a bit of woo woo,
Speaker 2: which is down my alley. And then guys, make sure
Speaker 2: you go read the book for other other tools.
Speaker 1: Great. So setting you in tool one, setting your intentions
Speaker 1: in your path? Is that the one that you loved?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so happy that you asked for me to
Speaker 1: talk about that. So this is all I'm going to look.
Speaker 1: I'm going to open the book and have a liks
Speaker 1: so I can find the actual questions so I can
Speaker 1: read them out. So this is it's part practical and
Speaker 1: as you said, part spiritual, which the book is. You
Speaker 1: know that I would say it spans both of those.
Speaker 1: It was really important to me because I'm authentically both
Speaker 1: of those things. You know, I'm a researcher, but I'm
Speaker 1: also very very spiritual, and it's been a really important
Speaker 1: part of my healing journey. So the tools I really
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to incorporate both, and as the
Speaker 1: whole book does. So this is part practical and part spiritual,
Speaker 1: and it's really about encouraging people to build a clear
Speaker 1: vision for themselves. Because what I've found personally and professionally,
Speaker 1: because this is a tool I use when I work
Speaker 1: with people, or you know, a version of it is
Speaker 1: if we're going to break free from old cycles, if
Speaker 1: we don't know what we're stepping into, we can feel
Speaker 1: really unsafe. So I always encourage people to create a
Speaker 1: vision and engage with their purpose and their you know,
Speaker 1: and engage with what they're seeking before they begin the work,
Speaker 1: because it's just it's almost like it gives you a
Speaker 1: structure and a sense of safety that when we're in
Speaker 1: this zone so when we're talking about trauma and doing
Speaker 1: this kind of work is really really important. So it's
Speaker 1: a really important tool. That's what I would say to people.
Speaker 1: So the questions are, so I've said, what are you
Speaker 1: seeking in your relationships? What are you seeking in your
Speaker 1: health and well being? What are you seeking in your work?
Speaker 1: And when you picture your life a year from now,
Speaker 1: what do you want it to look like? So that
Speaker 1: idea of seeking is really important to me in the
Speaker 1: work that I do. And I think there's something about
Speaker 1: the word that just helps people kind of key into
Speaker 1: or access on a deeper level when we talk about
Speaker 1: what you're seeking, what you're I don't know that there's
Speaker 1: a deeper spirituality the word than the media saying what
Speaker 1: do you want? You know, what are you're seeking? It's
Speaker 1: kind of a reaching for something that we need, that
Speaker 1: we instinctively know. So they're the questions that we use
Speaker 1: and what we do from those, So you're right as
Speaker 1: much as you would want on those. And then I
Speaker 1: really encourage people to take their answers and translate them
Speaker 1: into daily intentions, which I think are so important. I
Speaker 1: think it's really important that we're all using intentions. And
Speaker 1: I know that also probably all sounds a bit Gabby Bernstein,
Speaker 1: but they work. There is so much evidence to show
Speaker 1: that they work. I am really into I've done a
Speaker 1: lot of kind of training and research into the subconscious
Speaker 1: and how it plays out in our beliefs on a
Speaker 1: daily basis, and how we can break habits and patterns
Speaker 1: and intentions are really powerful, you know. So from those,
Speaker 1: so say you know, what are you seeking in your relationships?
Speaker 1: Once you've got that answer, you would then pull from
Speaker 1: that intentions, which is it is a bit of a
Speaker 1: tricky practice that they there can be hard to initially set,
Speaker 1: but you the more you practice them, the more you
Speaker 1: get familiar with the wording. So so for example, what
Speaker 1: here we go? So here I've written, So for example,
Speaker 1: so you wrote, I'm seeking deeper emotional connection in my
Speaker 1: closest relationships. So your intention then would be so my
Speaker 1: intention is to be more honest and open about how
Speaker 1: I'm feeling. So you see, there's the seeking piece first,
Speaker 1: and then we translate it into an intention, and then
Speaker 1: from that I really encourage people to to create affirmations
Speaker 1: because we set the intention in the morning, but then
Speaker 1: during the day I use affirmations to queue in and
Speaker 1: remind me of where I'm headed. Because remember we've set
Speaker 1: the we've we've did the seeking weight work first, so
Speaker 1: we know that that that's coming from a really deep
Speaker 1: place within us. So on a daily basis, we need
Speaker 1: to find ways to remind us of where we're headed.
Speaker 1: And affirmations work so beautifully. So take that intention of
Speaker 1: my intention is to be more honest and open about
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling. To support the intention, you could use
Speaker 1: an affirmation like I'm deeply connected to those I love,
Speaker 1: or it's safe to be open about my feelings, or
Speaker 1: I state my feelings honestly. So they're just smaller affirmations
Speaker 1: that you can use during the day that keep you
Speaker 1: on the right path, one that's come from a deep,
Speaker 1: a deeper place within you that's connected to your purpose.
Speaker 2: I love that, and I love the last bit of
Speaker 2: that tool you wrote. You know what the worst thing
Speaker 2: is about trauma? It keeps us focused on the past,
Speaker 2: so then our future ends up being a carbon copy
Speaker 2: of what happened before. To change, we gently remind ourselves
Speaker 2: to refocus on what we want. So what do you want? Ah?
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: I'm so pleased you like to I love it too.
Speaker 1: It's just so empowered and it's just so important with
Speaker 1: this work because I find that the trauma space often
Speaker 1: is very very heavy, you know, and I understand why,
Speaker 1: of course it is, but I think because because of that,
Speaker 1: so because there's so much or can be so much
Speaker 1: deep healing and processing going on, I feel like that
Speaker 1: often the lighter empowerment piece is missing. So it was
Speaker 1: really really important to me to pull those two, those
Speaker 1: two spaces together so as we heal, we can also
Speaker 1: empower ourselves. And it's really critical that we do.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And yeah, I resonate with that so much.
Speaker 2: Out well, thank you so much, Sarah. You have been
Speaker 2: such a light and it's just so yes, so many
Speaker 2: like aha moments, and I absolutely loved how you explained everything,
Speaker 2: and I really appreciate your time on coming up coming
Speaker 2: on the podcast and it's.
Speaker 1: Been such a wonderful chat. So are they were amazing
Speaker 1: amazing questions and oh I'm just a big fan, you know,
Speaker 1: it's been great.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Sarah. And can you let the audience
Speaker 2: know You've already let them know where they can find
Speaker 2: the book, so I will link that, but where can
Speaker 2: they find you? And follow you.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm everywhere. Really, you can't. You can't escape me.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I've got a website which is
Speaker 1: ww dot Sarah Woodhouse dot com, and I'm on Instagram
Speaker 1: and Facebook. I'm at the Sarah Woodhouse and on Twitter,
Speaker 1: I'm sn Underscore Woodhouse and I would love to connect. Ah.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Sarah, Thank you, thank you for listening
Speaker 2: for another RNC episode. I really appreciate taking the time
Speaker 2: to be here with me, and also for taking the
Speaker 2: time for yourself. If you found this episode helpful, it
Speaker 2: would be so amazing if you shared it on your
Speaker 2: stories and tagged us, or simply just send it on
Speaker 2: to a girlfriend or family member who would benefit from listening.
Speaker 2: We are an independent podcast run by me and my
Speaker 2: amazing podcast manager, so it would mean the world to
Speaker 2: us if you left a review on the Apple podcast app. Also,
Speaker 2: if you're vibing this podcast and the concepts we're chatting
Speaker 2: about and your craving community, please come and join us
Speaker 2: over at the RNC podcast community Facebook group. Just search
Speaker 2: Rise and Conquer Podcast Community on Facebook and I will
Speaker 2: be in there to chat to you. Until next time.