WEBVTT - 16: Courage Under Fire 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:06.360 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:11.760 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:18.960 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:29.319 lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:35.880 devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:45.200 mom bags packed car, running her daughters strapped into the backseat. 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.040 Mom told me that she needed to go back inside 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:49.839 to grab something. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:50.640 Panic. 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.199 Amy is dead, sir By Amy's Dead? 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:54.560 Eight Confusion World. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.120 About five minutes they sit N's a suicide. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:57.840 One hundred percent. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:00:59.240 This is immersing. 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:05.319 What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy? 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:12.080 The Truth About Amy? 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:26.160 Episode sixteen. I'm Liam Bartlington and I'm Alison Sandy. So 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.160 before we get started, I just wanted to provide listeners 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:37.920 with the latest on David Simmons. Since we last spoke Liam, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.280 Yet another warrant was issued for his arrest after he 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.560 failed to turn up to Armadale court, this time on 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:49.480 driving offenses. The following day, wa police picked him up 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.600 and brought him to the courthouse. So it's no longer 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.080 a case of him turning up a few hours later. 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.200 Police are now giving him a lift, which I guess 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.400 is better than nothing. When he gets there, he's again 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:08.720 granted bail and scheduled to reappear three weeks later. Sound familiar, limb. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:17.200 Wel, I'm sorry, but it's laughable, isn't it. It's absolutely laughable. 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.519 As you say, he's got the best uber in town, right, 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.720 the police are taking him straight there, not charging him 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.560 a cent. He's obviously got an account, but it's for free. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.839 I mean, when is the justice system going to catch 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:35.519 up with David Simmons? How many times do you breach bail? See? Look, 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.040 I'm a bit old fashioned. I always thought that breaching 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.520 bail is a really really serious charge, that's a really 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.040 serious thing to do. But clearly I'm wrong because they 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.720 just sort of give him chances like lollies to a 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.160 little kid. And that's how they're treating him, and that's 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.639 how they're treating the breaching of the bail. I mean once, twice, 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.920 three or four times. Now. The other thing, when you 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.680 say driving offenses, let's pause for a minute because that 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.720 sounds fairly innocuous. But it's worth mentioning here that these 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:10.680 driving offenses comprise reckless driving using an unlicensed vehicle on 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:15.200 the road, no authority to drive that means you haven't 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.079 got a license out, and driving with a prescribed illicit 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.720 drug in either oral fluid or your blood. I mean, 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.280 that's a nice grab bag, isn't it. And these aren't 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.480 isolated incidents. He's been a numerous traffic accidents, one of 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.239 which was mentioned in court the other week, a motorcycle 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.040 accident where, of course he lost his spleen. We spoke 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.200 about that at length in the first season. Then of 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.920 course the one that nearly killed Amy. Also remembering that 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.160 car accidents are the nation's biggest killer. So regardless of 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.880 what level of threat to society, the WA police or 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.120 the court system deem David Simmons to be or make 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.080 their mind up that he is or he isn't. He is, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.800 at the very least safe to say, a serial dangerous 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.760 driver who can con tinuously flouts the law that we 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.520 know to be a fact. Now, bearing that in mind, 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.200 I just want to put it to the magistrate and 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.240 the lawyers, the police and the police prosecutors who collectively 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.360 enable him to continue just to walk free and do 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.200 seemingly whatever he likes. Of course, remember remember what they 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.360 said in court his family would keep him out of 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.039 trouble and he would apparently get the help that he 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:31.480 quote so desperately needs. Well, if in the future, if 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.719 there is a fatal car crash involving David Simmons, and 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.760 when I say fatal, not fatal for David, but fatal 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.080 for the poor blighters who are in the other car, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.760 whoever they may be, however many they may be, whoever 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.760 gets caught in the crossfire. Let's face it, how many 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.520 times can you run the gauntlet on this? Then I 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.839 say to the magistrate and his lawyers and the police 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:00.479 and the prosecutors, that is on you. It's as simple 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.840 as that, precisely, Lamb. Yeah, and look, I don't think 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:05.480 I'm being too harsh in saying that. I mean, how 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.760 many chances does a person like that get out? It's just, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.720 you know, it's a cliche these days, but it is 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.000 a truism. They will have blood on their hands. It's 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.960 as simple as that. And it's not difficult. It's not 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.880 difficult to foresee, you know, we're not trying to do 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.160 a nostrodamis. And anybody with half a brain can work 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.080 out that that is a very, very possible scenario given 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.120 what's happened in the past and his level of behavior 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.920 and the continuous level of behavior. Anyway, let's get back 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:42.080 to the death of Amy Wensley. Now. When we've started 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:46.479 this investigation, we discussed how the uniformed officers and the 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.279 detectives seemed very much to be pitted against each other 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.640 in their opinions of what really happened to Amy. 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.120 Yes, Liam, simply put. The Rockingham detectives, led by Detective 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:03.440 Sergeant Tony Kirkman, believed Amy killed herself, and the uniform detectives, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.719 led by Senior Constable Ian Roberts did not. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.240 Yeah, you couldn't get more polarizing, could you. I mean, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.720 it's one side of the fence the detectives, the other 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.240 side of the fence of the uniformed officers. And as 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.600 we delved deeper, we discovered there were also other detectives 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.200 and authorities behind the scenes who didn't just fall in 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.000 behind their particular colleagues. And it was their courage, I think, 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.120 to probe further that helped get Amy's case to where 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:30.680 it is today. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.240 This episode details how that came about. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.279 By way of background, in Western Australia, the rule is 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.400 that all deaths are reported to the coroner or the 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.800 coroner's clerk. If it's a reportable death as defined by 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.080 the Coroner's Act nineteen ninety six, then the coroner must 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.960 be notified. A reportable death, as defined by the Coroner's 0:06:54.000 --> 0:07:00.760 Act is unexpected, unnatural, or violent, or to have resulted 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:05.680 directly or indirectly from some sort of injury. Now, this 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.520 generally includes a review of the person's medical history and 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.960 circumstances of death, a post mortem examination, and medical testing, 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:18.240 alongside the witness statements. Sometimes it also includes reports from 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:22.120 forensic experts, engineering and crime scene analysis. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.400 The coroner assigned to this case was Deputy State Coroner 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.080 Evil and Vicker. Ms. Vicker, who would be the first 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.679 of several who would ultimately take carriage of Amy's case, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.960 made it clear from the start that she wasn't satisfied 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.640 by wa police's conclusion that Amy took her own life. 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.480 But before we get into all that, let's revisit the 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.840 crime scene through the eyes of one of the uniform officers. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.920 First on scene, I entered the property, had a quick look. 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.480 I saw what looked to be a female in black top, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.720 black jeans, black beats, slumped behind the door. It was 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.800 a bit tight to enter as her left foot was 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:02.520 against the door. 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.720 This is a statement made by Senior Constable Ian Roberts, 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.880 dated July fourth, twenty fourteen. He made several over the 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.440 course of a decade, one of which you've heard already, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:18.160 but this one you haven't. Unlike the statements from Joshua Brydon, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.880 Gareth Price, David Simmons, and his father Robert, Senior Constable 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.480 Roberts is consistent in his recollection. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.320 The body had a blue towel over the head, covering 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.960 the wounds. At this time the towel was left in 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.720 place and untouched. I could see a large amount of 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.000 blood spatter, bone fragments, and brain matter on the rear 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.240 wall to the side of the head, and the large 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.320 amount of blood had pooled under the bottom of the 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.080 body as it sat there. I could see that her 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.000 right hand was under her bottom and her left resting 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.760 in her lap. There was a queen sized bed in 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.160 the center of the room, with wooden bedside cabinets either side. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.440 On the bedside cabinet to the left were two fourteen 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.880 gaged shotgun cartridges. One was live and the other spent. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.839 I also saw there was a side by side double 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.200 barrel shotgun lying by the side of the bed and 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.520 it was pointing barrel towards the deceased. It was about 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.400 two meters away from the deceased. I could see that 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.600 it had blood spatterings around the front of both barrels. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.080 Next to this bedside cabinet there was a pink rifle 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.800 leaned up against the wall in the corner. In the 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.480 far corner of the room, next to the other bedside 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.559 cabinet was another shotgun leaning against the wall. In the wardrobe, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.520 another rifle was leaning against the inner wall, and several 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.480 boxes of ammunition, both shotgun and twenty two could be 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.720 seen on the upper shelf. It was about seventeen fifty 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.560 five hours that the paramedics arrived and I asked that 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.400 everything be untouched as much as possible, and simply ascertained 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.319 that the body was actually deceased so that the relevant 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.560 paperwork could be completed. The paramedics were in the scene 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.160 for no more than a few seconds. They signed and 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.920 completed the life extinct form and left the scene. At 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.959 eighteen o five a PFA was de declared and a 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.840 running sheet commenced At nineteen o five hours, Weedman and 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.280 Kirkman and Povar from Rockingham Detectives attended the scene. We 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.000 explained where the body lay and what we had so 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.680 far done. They viewed the photographs that I had taken, 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.400 and Kirkman and Povar took our camera and went into 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.880 the property to assess the scene for themselves. They returned 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.199 about fifteen minutes later. We all stood in the large shed, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:27.920 as it was raining quite heavily by this time, and 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.880 we discussed the incident. Sergeant Kirkman explained that he and 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.240 his partner had come to the conclusion that it was 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.840 a non suspicious suicide, stating that they thought the deceased 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.959 had pulled the trigger herself using her left hand, by 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.480 pressing the butt of the gun against the bed and 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.240 leaning over with her left arm. I then tried to 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.720 tell Sergeant Kirkman that I did not agree with him, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.920 and stated that it would be almost, if not impossible, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.199 for a slight girl of her size to be able 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.640 to reach over her body and pull the trigger with 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.480 her left hand, and demonstrated that even my arm was 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.720 not longer enough to reach the trigger. I also mentioned 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.920 that her natural trigger finger would have been her right hand, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.400 which was situated under the bottom so could not have 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.520 been used. Sergeant Kirkman dismissed these facts, and his partner 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.000 Povar agreed with him. First Constable Blandford again tried to 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.040 explain that for a person to shoot themselves, they would 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.040 have to be seated with the butt of the weapon 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.480 against the ground and the barrel in their face. Sergeant 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.679 Kirkman replied that she was shot from the side of 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.719 the head. First Constable Blamford stated that there is no 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.319 female capable of holding the shotgun to the side of 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.280 their own head and pulling the trigger, certainly not with 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.800 their right hand trapped under their buttocks. Sergeant Kirkman answered 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.480 by saying she must have lent sidewards into the barrel. 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.040 I then stated that if the sergeant was happy to 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.480 call it a suicide, and there were not suspicious circumstances, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.439 then we would continue with this as a sudden death 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.680 and complete the paperwork accordingly. Sergeant Kirkman stated that he 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.079 and his colleagues would first read the statements that were 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.520 taken to see if they confirmed the conclusions they had determined. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.959 I asked that they call us once that decision had 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.840 been made. A short time later, Constable Dixon received a 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:14.400 call from Rockingham detectives that stated this incident was non suspicious. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.360 Now, according to the Major Crime Division decision Log, on 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.040 the twenty seventh of June, a decision was made to 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:30.560 arrest David Simmons and Gareth Price because of the following points. 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.800 Simmons history of violence, evidence of an argument between person 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:40.320 of interest Simmons and Amy prior to her death, the 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:45.720 inconsistency of the accounts they had provided thus far. However, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.880 they were released the following day because and old quote, 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:56.920 forensic examination doesn't provide evidence of criminality. Their accounts were 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:04.240 more detailed and clarified earlier. And lastly, the police at 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.800 that stage were unable to establish that an offense had 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.560 been committed. And that's a bit of a save all, 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.000 isn't it now. That was signed by Detective Senior Sergeant 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.240 Gregory MacDonald of the Major Crime Division, who was the 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:22.640 officer in charge of Operation Juhnde. We'll come back to 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.160 him later this episode, but first a statement. Here's what 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:32.000 Serpentine Roadhouse owner Robert Ibbotson, who ironically is also a 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.480 former police officer, here's what he recalled. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.240 I am sixty eight years old and the owner of 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.640 the Serpentine Falls Roadhouse, located on the corner of Fools 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:46.440 Road in Southwestern Highway in Serpentine. On Thursday, the twenty 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.360 sixth of June, I was at work. I was working alone. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.040 I was standing behind the counter when I saw a 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.520 white sedan pulled up close to Bowser five and two 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.480 males came inside in a hurry. I later checked the 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.280 cc TV footage and saw they arrived at five twenty 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.800 two pm. The clock on the CCTV footage is about 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:08.800 two minutes fast. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.240 That would make it five twenty four pm, but it's 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.760 worth noting that according to the Major Crime Report, the 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.040 CCTV clock was five minutes fast. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.760 I don't recall seeing either of them before. They both 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.440 looked to be in their late twenties or early thirties 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.080 and Caucasians. Male number one was wearing a black hooter 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.600 jump up with a green mother logo with a bright 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.240 green capital M. I can't recall what else he was wearing. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.440 He was the only one who spoke to me. He said, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.200 I got to use the phone. I got to call 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.480 Triple zero. I was about to point to the public 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.520 phone outside, but I let him use the roadhouse landline 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.960 because he spoke the submergency in the voice. The phone 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.600 number for the roadhouse is nine to five to two. 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.560 It is the only line I have and is the 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.520 cordless phone. I stood two to three meters away from 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.320 him when he called triple zero, and I heard him 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.760 say wanted an ambulance and gave an address of lot 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:13.360 number on the Southwestern Highway Serpentine. But I can't recall 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:14.040 the lot number. 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:15.040 He said. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:16.640 There was a name on the gate, but I can't 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.120 recall the name. He said someone shot themselves in the head. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.520 He gave the mobile number and said it didn't work 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.920 because he got wet. The entire time, he was calm, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.480 just a little bit edgy and nervous, but he wasn't crying. 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:31.960 He asked if he could make another call, and I 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.760 said he could help himself. He took the cordless phone 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.640 just outside the door and made another call. I could 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.280 not hear him as the door was closed, but the 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.880 conversation was a minute or two long, at the longest. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.880 The whole time, the second male stayed close behind him 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.640 and said words to the effect you're right mate, you're right, mate. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.160 The second male wore a black beanie and a white 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.560 logo of some sort on the front, and a black 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.520 horter jumper with white logo on the front too. I 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.960 can't describe the logo as any further than that they 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.120 clearly visible on the CCTV and they are very distinct. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.520 He brought the cordless phone back inside to me, handed 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.840 it to me, and walked out without another word. The 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.480 second mile, wearing the black beanie, didn't say anything either. 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.160 They got in the car and left. The first mile 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.320 without the beanie got in the driver's seat and drove 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.960 south on the Southwestern Highway. I did not notice anyone 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:23.520 else in the car, but I did have a good 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.520 view and it was just starting to get dark outside. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.920 There was one other male customer in the store at 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.240 the time, and he heard the first mile without the 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.240 beanie say someone had shot themselves in the head. I 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.080 don't know his name, but he is a regular if 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.280 the police need to follow up with him too. On Friday, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.240 the twenty seventh of June twenty fourteen, I downloaded a 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.520 copy of the CCTV footage of the two miles coming 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.760 into the store around five point twenty two on the disc. 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.480 I provided the disc a detective Senior Constable Danderly at 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.840 the same time, I provided the statement on the Saturday 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:55.920 of the twenty eighth of June twenty fourteen. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.960 So we know from this that the clothes they were 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.200 wearing at the roadhouse were the same clothes police confiscated 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.960 shortly after. You'll recall that these clothes didn't have any 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:15.720 blood or any gun residue on them whatsoever, despite Simmons 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.080 admitting to firing his gun not long before Amy died. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.320 Remember he said he was firing his gun outside at 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.600 some parrots or whatever. The story was, oh fish, it was. Yeah, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.119 there was a couple of different conflicting stories depending on 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.679 who you believed. And also Gareth Price, in his own words, 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.600 gave evidence that he patted down Amy's dead body looking 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.000 for her phone. Can you imagine patting down anybody in 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.920 that position that had been on the receiving end of 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.359 that sort of gunshot wound? And still, because let's go 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.520 back to the evidence, the police found, their clothes had 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.959 no blood residue, no gun residue, not one bit, not 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.800 one spot, not one spot. To believe, isn't it? 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.120 Yeah? Or woodchips from chopping wood all afternoon, or. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.359 Any sort of fiber from all that wood shopping. That 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:08.000 is amazing. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.320 Look, it doesn't make any sense. The evidence is contrary 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.040 to what they've been saying. They obviously change their clothes. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.720 There is no other reason that that would be the case. 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.560 They would have blood, they would have woodchips, they would 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.400 have gun residue, and even if they talk about gun 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:27.280 residue being you know, not reliable, they would at least 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.800 have Gareth having padded down a body. There's no way 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.959 you could do that without having some transfer of blood. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.040 And there's no way that David Simmons wouldn't have wood 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.760 chips on his body from having chopped wood all that afternoon. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.720 So if we were to believe, let me just give 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.760 you a scenario. So let's assume that the clothes they 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.320 had on at the roadhouse, which were the ones police 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:56.160 then confiscated, finding no residue anywhere. Let's just say if 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.919 they were fresh clothes, they would have had to find 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.520 the time before they went to the roadhouse to phone 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.280 for the ambulance to both change their. 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.399 Clothes, yep, or they had thirteen minutes. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:07.840 Thirteen minutes well at. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.760 Least that we know of. That's their official time frame that. 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:16.359 Had Okay, I mean, do you think police have fully 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:17.479 investigated that aspect? 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:17.680 Oh? 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.720 No way, Amy doesn't look like it doesn't. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:24.159 No, no, And that's just been brushed over, right, you 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.439 know it hasn't. There's been no No one's really talked 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:31.440 about it, No one's pushed them about it. At the inquest, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.160 it just wasn't. It was just glossed over. Really one 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.120 of the many things that was glossed over. And then 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.159 even looking for Amy's phone, patting down her body. I 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.520 mean that that whole thing of David Simmons not being 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.400 able to go up to the house because his dad 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.440 apparently wasn't there even though he worked at home all 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.120 the time, and then him also afterwards when they came 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.439 back to the property trying to get in there to 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.960 get Amy's phone again where he said, de Larry Blain, 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.240 you know I need to go get my phone. Wasn't 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.000 his phone because when he said it was my phone, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.040 they said what color is it? And he said pink. 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.920 He was claiming Amy's pink phone was his phone. Yeah, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.719 and he wanted it, but Constable Blandford refused to give 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:14.120 it to him. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.400 Yeah, refused to let him back, and he denies it obviously, 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:19.560 But I mean, who are you going to believe a. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:21.879 Swan police officer. I believe the police officer. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.639 Yeah, yeah, Well what benefit would he get from making 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:24.959 that up? 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:25.159 No? 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:29.400 Exactly, that was part of his official signed statement as 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.440 a police officer. I mean, I've got no doubt that 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.120 what he said was exactly what happened. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:37.160 This same day, the forensic Field Operations team, led by 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.879 Sergeant Brad Nind, went back to the house where Amy died. 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.760 In his report, Nind noted that the bedroom had been 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.800 professionally cleaned, and even a section of carpet and underlay 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.200 in the doorway to the bedroom had been removed. Now 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.920 that's the first time I've read this, but this carpet 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:56.040 had been removed. 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.439 Well, who made the decision to remove that carpet? Unsafe 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.240 to assume anything in this case, But do we assume 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.879 that was the professional cleaners who said, look, this is 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.760 beyond cleaning, and either David Simmons or his father were 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.119 present to supervise the cleaning and agreed that the carpet 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.080 should be removed. I mean, how do you how do 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:15.560 you do that? 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.440 Another unanswered question, liamb something that the police, the new 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.560 investigation team should be going back to. 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.560 The premises was clean and tidy. Very small amounts of 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:27.760 blood evidence were present on the rear of the door 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.040 and adjacent walls. These stains were recorded and collected by 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:32.080 BPA officers. 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:37.800 Well BPA is what they referred to in forensic circles 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.800 as blood pattern analysis. 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.520 Upon completion of the scene examination in Serpentine, FFO officers 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.000 attended the location of a vehicle subject to this incident 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.320 in company of Detective Dan Drilly. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:55.080 And FFO refers to forensic field operations. 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.199 Photographs were obtained of the interior and exterior of the 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.800 vehicle and the presumptive test for blood was conducted on 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.600 the steering wheel, interior and exterior driver's door handle which 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.479 gave a negative reaction. Due to this, no swabs were 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:08.479 obtained from the vehicle. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.040 Back to Detective Senior Sergeant McDonald at the inquest, he 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:17.240 was questioned about how Operation Dundee came under his jurisdiction. 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:21.080 There's a team structure within the Major Crime Squad which 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.919 is now the Homicide Squad, same principal, different name. So 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.960 the on call which was the process of provision of 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.320 a telephone so that anyone required assistance or advice they 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.359 would contact the on call phone. 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:37.600 My team was on call that week. 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.680 We were advised in the morning of the twenty seventh 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:44.480 by Rockingham detectives that there were some concerns. 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:46.520 This is what they were advised. 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:51.159 My understanding is the initial investigations were conducted under the 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.639