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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, I think that there's an argument we made for

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Speaker 2: encouraging kids to persist at something that we know that

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Speaker 2: they'll be grateful for that they've expressed interest in and

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Speaker 2: love for previously. If we can just get the activity right.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot a U. Season two of Parental

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Speaker 2: Guidance coming soon to Channel nine. We can't wait to

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Speaker 2: share everything great about the brand new season of Parental

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Speaker 2: Guidance that's coming up. I mean with Kylie, my wife

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Speaker 2: and mum to our six children, our six daughters, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: As we start off the school year, parents are enrolling

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Speaker 2: their kids in all kinds of activities, extracurricular stuff. God

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Speaker 2: enrich them. Got to help them to have fancy and

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Speaker 2: fulfilled lives doing all those things that we know are

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Speaker 2: going to make such a difference in their lives and

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Speaker 2: their wellbeing. Sport, music, art, drama, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it's around about this time that we usually have

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Speaker 2: questions from parents who say, how do we how do

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Speaker 2: we get this right? Like? How many activities should they

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Speaker 2: be doing? And what if they don't want to do

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Speaker 2: the activity that we know that they should be doing,

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Speaker 2: or what if they start an activity that they really

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Speaker 2: want to do and they want to quit after they've

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Speaker 2: only been doing it for one or two weeks? How

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Speaker 2: do we figure this out? I thought that today would

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Speaker 2: be a good day to answer those questions. I think

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Speaker 2: I'm going to start with the first obvious one, how

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Speaker 2: many extracurricular activities should our kids be doing? I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you and I agree on this or not.

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Speaker 2: We seem to have a little bit of conflict in

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Speaker 2: our relationship about this one. What's your thought.

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Speaker 3: Some of the early days, we ca with this great plan. Well,

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Speaker 3: at least we thought it was great because we had

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Speaker 3: never done it, that the children would have two extracurriculars

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Speaker 3: each until you realize that six times two equals twelve.

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Speaker 2: And that's a recipe for bankruptcy. That not only that,

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Speaker 2: an exhaustion.

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Speaker 3: Time poor, like how do you physic do it all?

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Speaker 3: And then you're dragging X amount of kids along to

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Speaker 3: watch one child explore and enjoy their experience. Well, everyone

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Speaker 3: else is moaning and groaning because the last thing they

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Speaker 3: want to do is sit in a waiting room.

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Speaker 2: So we decided that we're going to have the kids

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Speaker 2: do one musical instrument and one sport, and so we

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Speaker 2: chose swimming because we want the kids to be safe

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Speaker 2: in the water, and they could choose their musical instrument,

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Speaker 2: until we realized that was too hard, and so we

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Speaker 2: basically booked them all into swimming lessons on the same

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Speaker 2: day at the same time, which was brilliant, And we

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Speaker 2: booked them in for music lessons with the same teacher

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Speaker 2: one after the other, until we realized that doesn't work

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Speaker 2: very well at all. And then we had one child

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Speaker 2: that didn't really want to learn that instrument. She wanted

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Speaker 2: to learn something else. And we had kids that were

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Speaker 2: starting to get better at swimming because they were bigger

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Speaker 2: and older, and they had to go to the squad

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Speaker 2: instead of the swimming lessons, and it started to fall apart.

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Speaker 2: It got really really messy.

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Speaker 3: Well, and your way of seeing things is, if the

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Speaker 3: kids want to do it, let them do it well.

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Speaker 2: I want them to have enriching experiences, even if it's

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Speaker 2: going to break me financially well it's.

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Speaker 3: Breaking you financially but me physically because you're often not

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Speaker 3: home and I'm the one trying to navigate the challenges

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Speaker 3: of a very busy schedule.

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Speaker 2: And then that means that we come home late and

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Speaker 2: there's no dinner organized, and everyone's tired, and like, it's

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Speaker 2: really really hard to get this right. So for the

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Speaker 2: average parent who's only got one or two kids and

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Speaker 2: maybe three, I still think that the idea of having

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Speaker 2: them involved in one sporting activity for health and teamwork

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Speaker 2: and fitness and all that kind of stuff, I think

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Speaker 2: that's a really good thing to do. And I really

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Speaker 2: believe that getting them involved in some kind of art,

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Speaker 2: some kind of music, some sort of drumma, something creative, creative, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think there's value in that, because if you're going

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Speaker 2: to do a sport, it's usually quite structured. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily always lend itself to a whole lot of creativity

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Speaker 2: and a whole lot of strategic thinking. You get in

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Speaker 2: the pool and you swim as fast as you can,

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Speaker 2: or you get in the bike and you ride as

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Speaker 2: fast as you can, or you get on the field

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Speaker 2: and you run as fast as you can. And I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be too reduction. I know that some

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Speaker 2: people who are big sporting of Fishnado are going to

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Speaker 2: be upset about what I just said, But as a

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Speaker 2: general rule, I'm being fairly simplistic. Whereas when the kids

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Speaker 2: are learning music, they're learning to be creative there, or

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Speaker 2: if they're doing drama or art, they're expanding the repertoire of.

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Speaker 3: Using different sides of your brain different entirety.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Completely, So I reckon that that's a really good idea.

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Speaker 2: But we've got to go deeper than that. We've got

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Speaker 2: to explore other ways to help our kids to have

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Speaker 2: that enrichment and what is the right amount, how.

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Speaker 3: Are we supposed to do it?

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Speaker 2: We also need to talk about when to start. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I talk to some parents who've got their kids into

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Speaker 2: tutoring and into different sports and maybe dancing or gymnastics

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Speaker 2: or whatever it might be from a really, really young age.

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Speaker 2: So I reckon, when it comes to kids and extracurricular activities,

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Speaker 2: there are some things that they want to start as

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Speaker 2: soon as possible for safety, such as swimming. So we

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Speaker 2: want to teach our kids to swim full stop, endo story.

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Speaker 2: But in terms of more organized kinds of sports and activities,

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Speaker 2: more structured activity. I don't think that there's really good

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Speaker 2: research evidence to support getting our kids involved in that

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Speaker 2: until they're at least eight, nine, maybe even ten years

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Speaker 2: of age, perhaps even a little bit older.

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Speaker 3: Again, and we've watched this time and time again every

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Speaker 3: now and again because we've got so many children. The

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Speaker 3: little kids have seen their big sisters involved in things

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Speaker 3: and want to get involved, and it's just never been

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Speaker 3: a positive experience while they're.

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Speaker 2: Young, right, So research on kids and competitiveness shows that

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Speaker 2: that's not in their best interests. So I think we

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Speaker 2: want to hold off on anything competitive for as long

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Speaker 2: as possible. I don't know. Some parents say, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: my kids are going to have the edge, they're going

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Speaker 2: to be so much better at it if they start younger. Again,

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Speaker 2: the research evidence doesn't support that they may develop a

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Speaker 2: reasonable level of competence. But if you get a kid

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Speaker 2: playing let's say ball sport from the age of eight,

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Speaker 2: and another kid starts at eleven, within a year or two,

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Speaker 2: that eleven year old will have caught up without any

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Speaker 2: problems at all. You look at someone like Roger Federer,

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Speaker 2: one of the.

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Speaker 3: Well it's life experience, right right, they're much better equipped

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Speaker 3: with their hand eye coordination. They're more physically developed and

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Speaker 3: have better strength and coordination. There's just there's so much

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Speaker 3: more available to them because they're actually older.

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Speaker 2: And so speaking of the older thing, Federer's mum was

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Speaker 2: a tennis coach. He hated tennis. He didn't want to

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Speaker 2: play tennis. He wanted to be involved in all sorts

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Speaker 2: of other sports so long as it wasn't tennis. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't until he was in his late teams that

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Speaker 2: he decided that he wanted to give tennis a shot.

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Speaker 2: And we all know how that turned out. He's essentially

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Speaker 2: the greatest tennis player in the history of the world.

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Speaker 2: A really really incredible phenomenon, Roger Federer, and he didn't

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Speaker 2: start until late. We have other incredible success stories like

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Speaker 2: Patrick Johnson, the sprinter who started in his twenties and

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Speaker 2: went on to win gold medals for Australia.

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Speaker 3: So I think it comes down to motivation exactly. If

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Speaker 3: our children actually want to participate and want to do

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Speaker 3: well at something, then they're motivated to do it and

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Speaker 3: regardless of their age, they're going to move forward in

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Speaker 3: really positive and strong ways.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let's do a quick stop down here and

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Speaker 2: just summarize what we've talked about. First off, in terms

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Speaker 2: of getting kids involved, yes, but wait until they're older,

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Speaker 2: especially for structured and competitive activities.

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Speaker 3: So if you want to start saving from an.

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Speaker 2: Early number two in terms of how many activities, our

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Speaker 2: recommendation is that you do as many activities as you

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Speaker 2: can comfortably both afford from a time perspective and from

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Speaker 2: a financial perspective.

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Speaker 3: So we totally disagree on this, and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: say less is more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we do a disagree. I just want the kids

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Speaker 2: to do as many things as they can because they

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Speaker 2: want to do them. But you've got to be able

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Speaker 2: to afford it, and you've got to have the time

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Speaker 2: and capacity to run them around and get them to

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Speaker 2: all the places they're supposed to be. And that's a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a challenge.

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Speaker 3: You spend your whole life in a car instead of

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Speaker 3: actually allowing them to just live their lives.

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Speaker 2: The third thing that we're going to touch on that

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Speaker 2: I think we will agree on is that we want

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Speaker 2: to follow our children's interests. So we've got that.

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Speaker 3: You've got it right. When your kid is sitting in

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Speaker 3: the backseat literally three weeks after season's finished and they're

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Speaker 3: asking you when the next season is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, when you're saying, hey, it's time to go,

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Speaker 2: and they say, I know, I'm already in the car

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Speaker 2: waiting because they're excited for it. They're dressed, they're ready

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Speaker 2: to go. So we've got one of our kids doing acro.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what acro actually is, but I

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Speaker 2: drop her off every week and she loves it so much,

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Speaker 2: like she just loves it. And I never really wanted

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Speaker 2: to have a child doing whatever this acro thing is.

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Speaker 3: And it's called acrobatics. Mayni.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what it is, but I don't really

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Speaker 2: I don't get it. I don't actually get it.

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Speaker 3: She's on the silks, and she's on lyra, and she's

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Speaker 3: on the hoop and she is in heaven. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: doesn't have a clue what she's doing at this point.

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Speaker 3: She literally has done twelve weeks. But there was a

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Speaker 3: demonstration in the shopping center the other day when we

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Speaker 3: went to buy our school shoes and it just stopped

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Speaker 3: her in the tracks. Yeah, these girls are amazing what

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Speaker 3: they can do. And I just sat and I thought,

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Speaker 3: if that was my kid, I would be so impressed.

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Speaker 2: Whereas swimming. I mean, we are dragging these kids out

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Speaker 2: the door and saying you need to get in the car,

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Speaker 2: you need to swim. We live near the beach, we

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Speaker 2: spend time at the ocean. Swimming is compulsory and they're like,

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Speaker 2: no bird, swim like it's a It's such hard work

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Speaker 2: to get them doing that.

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Speaker 3: It didn't used to be, but unfortunately because of the

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Speaker 3: moves that we've had, we haven't had consistency with the coach.

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Speaker 3: It makes such a difference.

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Speaker 2: So that brings me on next point, and that is relationships.

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Speaker 2: Relationships really matter. So you don't just follow your kids' interests,

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Speaker 2: but you also follow their relationships. If all of their

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Speaker 2: friends are playing a sport, they're much more likely to

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Speaker 2: want to play that sport.

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Speaker 3: Well, Emily had no interest in a team sport whatsoever,

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Speaker 3: but one of her little friends was putting together a

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Speaker 3: team for oz tag and asked if Emily wanted to

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Speaker 3: join in, and Emily kind of shrugged his shoulder and said, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: But three weeks after season's over, she's like, Mum, when's

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Speaker 3: Ostag gone again? I really want to play. She's missing

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Speaker 3: the connection with her friends and she's missing the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to learn and grow. She knows that she's not particularly

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Speaker 3: good at it, she's only had one season, but she's

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Speaker 3: so excited about going back. Yes, and that is perfection

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Speaker 3: in my books.

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Speaker 2: Okay, great, So we've got to follow their interests, we've

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Speaker 2: got to follow the relationships. Let's change it up just

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Speaker 2: a little bit. What about when they want to quit?

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Speaker 3: So this was really really hard for me on the

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Speaker 3: early days, especially when budgeting was so tight. It was

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Speaker 3: hard for me to recognize that we've just spent two

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty dollars on their uniforms and their sign up,

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Speaker 3: and now they don't want to do it anymore.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember when I was riding my bike on

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Speaker 2: the velodrome, I was competing, and our eldest daughter, Chanelle, said,

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Speaker 2: I want to ride with you. So we got her

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Speaker 2: involved in the club a little bit, and we went

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Speaker 2: out and we bought her a bike, and to buy

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Speaker 2: when you ride on the velodrome competitively, you can't just

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Speaker 2: ride any old bike. You have to have a track bike, which.

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Speaker 3: Can't be ridden any other way. It's only for the track.

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Speaker 2: So this is a bike that has no brakes and

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Speaker 2: it's a bike that has a fixed gear. So if

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Speaker 2: the wheels are spinning, the pedals to spinning and you

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Speaker 2: can't stop unless you're just sort of pushing gently against

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Speaker 2: the pedals to slow it down until eventually you stop.

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Speaker 2: It's a specialized piece of bicycling equipment only for the velodrome.

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Speaker 3: So went, now, you got to buy the Likra.

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Speaker 2: You got to buy the Likera, got to buy the pedal,

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Speaker 2: like the shoes that clip into the pedals, and the

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Speaker 2: gloves and the helmet like. So we were poor UNI

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Speaker 2: students the time. I think I had spent maybe eleven

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Speaker 2: hundred twelve hundred dollars on setting her up, plus she

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Speaker 2: had to become a member of the club and all

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Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. It was a huge sacrifice to

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Speaker 2: get her recycling. But she was young, and she was

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Speaker 2: competing against maybe three or four other girls who had

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Speaker 2: all been cycling their dads had gotten the into cycling

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Speaker 2: at about the age of five, and they were.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a particularly big club, so she didn't have

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Speaker 3: anyone her age or at her level.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she was like, she was the worst by

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Speaker 2: a mile. She was about half the speed of everyone else.

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Speaker 2: It was embarrassingly awfully horribly bad for her, and after

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Speaker 2: three or four weeks she said that I don't want

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Speaker 2: to do this anymore. And I remember just going, don't.

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Speaker 2: You've got to keep trying. You've got to practice, Like

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Speaker 2: the more you practice, the better you'll get, and soon

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Speaker 2: you'll be able to And I was doing all the

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Speaker 2: motivational talks and I was doing the big pump up speeches.

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Speaker 2: I was like, just come along for one more week,

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Speaker 2: Let's just give it one more go. And eventually we

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Speaker 2: were having major conflict over it, and within about six

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Speaker 2: weeks she was out. She was completely fully out. We

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Speaker 2: spent all that money and eventually we sold everything and

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Speaker 2: we got a good portion of the money back, but

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Speaker 2: not all of it. And it was a really expensive

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Speaker 2: and painful exercise. But sometimes you've just got to let

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Speaker 2: them work it out for themselves.

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Speaker 3: In the early days, it was actually really really hard

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Speaker 3: to let them change their mind because of that financial outlay.

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Speaker 3: And for some families where you're stuck in that place

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Speaker 3: and it is it's really hard. But what we've recognized

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Speaker 3: as we have gotten to a much more comfortable position

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Speaker 3: financially firstly, but secondly, have alone so much as parents

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Speaker 3: through this process is that if we can work with

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Speaker 3: our children's in trists and their relationships and their skill

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Speaker 3: set their strengths, life is actually great. They enjoy life more,

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Speaker 3: there's more energy around everything that they're doing, and what

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Speaker 3: they bring back to us is better. And so sometimes

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Speaker 3: it can be really really frustrating to sign up and

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Speaker 3: then have them pull out. But you don't know what

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Speaker 3: you don't know. Our kids don't know that they're not

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Speaker 3: going to enjoy X, Y, and Z unless they give

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Speaker 3: it a go. And if we have the capacity to

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Speaker 3: allow them to actually experience and experiment, then they're better

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Speaker 3: for it.

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Speaker 2: The last point that I want to make as we

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Speaker 2: wrap this up is every now and again, you'll have

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Speaker 2: a child who doesn't want to do something, and I

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Speaker 2: think that it's okay to push a little bit now

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Speaker 2: and then, even if they don't have the relationships or

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Speaker 2: the competence and skills, and they don't even necessarily have

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Speaker 2: the interest, and that's because of time, they will be grateful.

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Speaker 2: The case in point is music lessons. So at the moment,

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with a twelve year old who's saying, I

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Speaker 2: just don't want to do it. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: learn an instrument. I don't like this instrument. I don't

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Speaker 2: like that instrument. I don't enjoy it. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be doing it at all. She's happy to sit

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Speaker 2: on the piano and bang out some chords and sing

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Speaker 2: at the top of a voice, but she doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to do the work. She doesn't want to exercise that

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Speaker 2: conscientiousness that's required to practice and learn the skill. She

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to literally do the work. And what I'm

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Speaker 2: finding in my conversation with her is I need you

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Speaker 2: to trust me on this. One day, I think you're

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Speaker 2: going to be really glad that you've persisted with it,

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Speaker 2: that you're stuck with it, and that you made it happen,

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Speaker 2: because one day you're going to be like your big

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Speaker 2: sister and you're going to be able to pick up

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Speaker 2: the guitar and go down to the street corner and

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Speaker 2: busk and make some money. Or you're gonna be able

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Speaker 2: to sit around with some friends and play the piano

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Speaker 2: and all singing. Or you'll be able to do these things,

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Speaker 2: and you'll be so grateful for that skill, for that capacity,

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Speaker 2: for that knowledge that you've accrued over the years, that

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Speaker 2: we've paid all that money for and so we've got

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Speaker 2: to tread carefully and we shouldn't be forcing our kids.

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Speaker 2: But I do think that there's an argument who made

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Speaker 2: so long as our motivations are right, we're not doing

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Speaker 2: it because it's about us and our ego. I think

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Speaker 2: that there's an argument to be made for encouraging kids

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Speaker 2: to persist at something that we know that they'll be

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Speaker 2: grateful for that they've expressed interest in and love for previously,

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Speaker 2: if we can just get the activity right.

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Speaker 3: And I guess in line with that is an acknowledgment

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Speaker 3: that timing is really important. So Emily wanted to do gymnastics,

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Speaker 3: but she wanted to do it when she was about six,

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Speaker 3: and against all of our conversations and considerations around starting

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Speaker 3: children that early, recognizing that she's a ridiculously busy kid, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we decided we'd give it a go. And it was

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Speaker 3: a disaster. It was an absolute disaster. She lasted two

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Speaker 3: lessons and literally ran out there of the second lesson

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Speaker 3: screaming at the top of her lung saying, I hate this,

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Speaker 3: I'm never coming back.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: But two years.

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Speaker 2: Later, yeah, yeah, as an eight year old, rather than.

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Speaker 3: And recognizing and learning more about her and how she works,

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Speaker 3: checking in and realizing that gymnastics is quite structured but

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Speaker 3: acro is not. And so I put her into ACRO

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Speaker 3: classes as an eight year old instead of a six

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Speaker 3: year old, less structure, and her body is just in heaven.

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Speaker 3: She is loving it. We go to the shopping center

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Speaker 3: and I have to stop her from doing handstand. She

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Speaker 3: cartwell's in the corridors of the shopping center.

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Speaker 2: So now we've just got to work out what musical

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Speaker 2: instrument she's going to play, because she's old enough for that,

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Speaker 2: and I.

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Speaker 3: Think she really wants to play the violin.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, We really hope that this has been a

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Speaker 2: helpful podcast. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 2: and Rulin from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: The take home message get the kids involved in extracurricular

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Speaker 2: activities if you can afford and you've got the time,

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Speaker 2: But let their interests and their relationships be the motivation.

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Speaker 2: Push them now and then if you know better, but

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Speaker 2: please make sure it's not about your ego, Please make

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Speaker 2: sure it's really about them, and wait until old enough.

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Speaker 2: Can't wait to share more with you on The Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast tomorrow as we go back to an interview

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Speaker 2: from our Little People Big Feelings Conversation Our Summit I

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Speaker 2: Should Say, with Reenie Jane of Gozen Little Kids, Big Feelings.

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Speaker 2: If that's what you're struggling with, you don't want to

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Speaker 2: miss tomorrow's podcast episode and for more information, please visit

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Speaker 2: us at Happy families dot com Donau