1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: We learned about this research that had been done by 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: a team of economists led by Linda Babcock at Carnegie 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: Mellon University showing that women really struggle to say no 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: when asked to do what she calls non promotable tasks. 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: So these are things like organizing the office party, taking 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: notes at work, giving a talk at an event, or 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: sitting on a committee that won't be rewarded in any 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: way other than appreciated because it's good citizenship. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 2: Organizing the office Christmas party, taking the minutes at every 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: single meeting, making showing your colleagues get a nice cad 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: signed by the whole team on their birthday. Maybe you 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: don't mind putting your hand up for little jobs like 13 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: this from time to time, but if it's always your responsibility, 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: you're definitely losing out on time that might be better 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: spent on deep work, on work that truly moves the needle, 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: work that earns you at promotion. Non promotable tasks and 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: nobody's favorite. But research shows that women have a much 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: harder time saying no when asked to do these little 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: tasks than men do. Add up all these little jobs 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: over the course of a few months, or a few 21 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: years and those little tasks become a big disadvantage. So 22 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: how do you get better? It's saying no more often. Well, 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: you don't have to do it alone. My name is 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: of behavioral science consultancy invent Him. And this is how 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: I work a show about how to help you do 27 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: your best work. Welcome to your Favorite Tips. Across ten 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: bite sized episodes, I'll be sharing tips from some of 29 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: the world's best thinkers that you, the listeners, have found 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: the most useful. We're covering everything from creating better to 31 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: do lists to setting more effective boundaries around your time, 32 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: and you'll be hearing from people like best selling author 33 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: Sally Hepworth, Corona Cast host and journalist Norman Swan, and 34 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: Google's executive productivity advisor Laura may Martin. Today's favorite tip 35 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: comes from Bianca, and she writes Katie Milkman's No Club 36 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 2: was a game changer for me. After hearing this strategy, 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: I got together with a couple of workmates and started 38 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: my own I. 39 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Love my no Club. Yes, it is life saving and 40 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: for so many reasons. Yes. So I have a group 41 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: of it's three of us, three women at you know, 42 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: research intensive business schools, all of whom care a lot 43 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: about doing science, who care a lot about communicating about 44 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: science and being good teachers and good citizens. We really 45 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: are very aligned and similar goals. And we learned about 46 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: this research that had been done by a team of 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: economists led by Linda Babcock at Carnegie Mellon University showing 48 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: that women really struggle to say no when asked to 49 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: do what she calls non promotable tasks. So these are 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: things like organizing the office party, taking notes at work, 51 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: giving a talk at an event, or sitting on a 52 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: committee that won't be rewarded in any way other than 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: sort of appreciated because it's good citizenship. And men and 54 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: women both get these kinds of asks a lot. It's 55 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: part of being, you know, in any organization, and women 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: have a lot more trouble saying no than men. They 57 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on these kinds of tasks, 58 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: and it can take away from doing things that are 59 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: more valued by their organizations and may prevent them from 60 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: rising to the highest levels. So we learned about this work, 61 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: and we learned that Linda and her collaborators had formed 62 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: a NO Club of women who would basically reach out 63 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: to each other for second opinions whenever they got an 64 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: ask that fit into this category of something that's not 65 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: part of your job description that they knew wouldn't strictly 66 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: be rewarded by the organization, but that might be worth 67 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: doing because you want to be a good citizen, you 68 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: want to do the right things. And we thought, this 69 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: is such a great idea to have this no club 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: because it turns out when we're in an outsider mode, 71 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: when we're evaluating these kinds of asks to someone else, 72 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: it's much easier and clearer for us to say objectively, 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: oh no, that's a bad use of time. And when 74 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: it's insider mode, you're thinking about the feelings you might 75 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: hurt and the how are you going to handle everything? 76 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: So we have this no club. We reach out to 77 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: each other whenever we get these kinds of asks, and 78 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: it has been absolutely incredible over the last I think 79 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: it's going seven years and strong now for a bunch 80 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: of reasons, but actually not all reasons I anticipated. So 81 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: I know it would be great to have these incredible 82 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: women on my size or of offering consulting services and 83 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: to offer my own on these kinds of challenges, and 84 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: then I might free up a lot of time and 85 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: help me prioritize better. What I didn't fully appreciate when 86 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: we created this is what an amazing community it would build. 87 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: Right where these women were already friends, but they've become 88 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: closer because we see each other's struggles. We're in touch regularly, 89 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: and it's become more like a support group. We actually 90 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: recently added joy Club to No Club so that we 91 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: can celebrate each other's successes, which I love so like 92 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: emails go out, they used to just have a tag 93 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: in front No Club and then people would respond right away. 94 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: But we added joy Club so we could share good 95 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: news with each other and celebrate it. A third thing 96 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: that I didn't anticipate but that I've researched and now 97 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: appreciate more thanks to that is that when we give 98 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: advice to each other, it actually ends up helping us too. 99 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: So I thought that would just be, you know, it's reciprocity, right, 100 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: they give me advice, I give them advice. That's just 101 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: sort of the price you pay for joining this club. 102 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: But it's not a price. It turns out to be 103 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: really valuable to me every time I see a challenge 104 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: they're struggling with, because first of all, I'm likely to 105 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: face similar challenge and thinking through in an advance, seeing 106 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: it with that outsider perspective, I learn and I build 107 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: my own confidence because it's easy for me to see, oh, 108 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: this is the right way to think about it when 109 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: it's someone else's problem, and then when I face the 110 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: same challenge myself, I feel confident that I can tackle 111 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: it because I've seen it before. So that's actually there's 112 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: research showing that advice giving improves your own confidence and competence, 113 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: which I got to be a part of, and that 114 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: sort of opened my eyes to the power of the 115 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: advice club, not only as a social support group, not 116 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: only as a way to tap into the wisdom of others, 117 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: but actually to build your own confidence and competence as well. 118 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me for this mini series. 119 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: I hope you've enjoyed seeing which teaps other listeners have 120 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: found most valuable, and now that how I work it's 121 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: been running for a few years, I also love being 122 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: reminded of it's a powerful advice that I needed to revisit. 123 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 2: If you missed any of the episodes in this series, 124 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: make sure you go back through the feed and give 125 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: them a listen. There are some great tips in there 126 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: from brilliant minds like Calan Newport, Turia Pit, Sally have Worth, 127 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: and heaps more. As the listener of How I Work, 128 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: you've hopefully picked up a few tips on this show 129 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: to help you work better? But do you want more? 130 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: And maybe in a book form, because let's face it, 131 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: books are the most awesome thing on the planet. Well, 132 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: now you can. In my new book, time Wise, I 133 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: uncover a wealth of proven strategies that anyone can use 134 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: to improve their productivity, work, and lifestyle. Time Wise brings 135 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: together all of the gems that I've learned from conversations 136 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: with the world's greatest thinkers, including Adam Grant, Dan Pink, 137 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: Mia Friedman, and Turia Pit and many many others. Time 138 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: Wise is launching on July five, but you can pre 139 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: order it now from Amantha dot com and if you 140 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: pre order time Wise a couple of bonuses. View First, 141 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: you'll receive an ebook that details my top twenty favorite 142 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: apps and software for being time Wise with email, calendar, passwords, reading, 143 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: cooking ideas and more. You will also get a complementary 144 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: spot in a webinar that I'm running on June twenty nine, 145 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: where I will be sharing the tactics from time Wise 146 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: that I use most often, and also some bonus ones 147 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: that are not in the book that I use and love. 148 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: Hop onto Amantha dot com to pre order now. How 149 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: I Work is produced by Inventium with production support from 150 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: Dead Set Studios, and thank you to Matt Nimba who 151 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: does the audio mix for every episode and makes everything 152 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: sound so much better than it would have otherwise. See 153 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: you next time.