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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Behind the Scenes. This is the final edition,

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Speaker 1: final for a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean well rest yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: We don't say that on the radio. We actline we're

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Speaker 1: on here, but we yeah. From the podcast. We'll be

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Speaker 1: having a two week break.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 4: I'm not doing what I was doing, like two weeks

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Speaker 4: of best of of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Struggle and we would. So I think the POD's been

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Speaker 1: hot recently. I'm loving these questions, and you've got a

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Speaker 1: brand new question today.

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Speaker 2: Woulds yep picked another one?

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm high maintenance when it comes to really really

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Speaker 4: interested by this, because you know, I think I may

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Speaker 4: high may, and a lot of people get known as

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Speaker 4: oh this or you're high may, and oh no, this

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Speaker 4: person's low may.

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Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with that.

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Speaker 3: That mean, what does it mean? Because I remember it

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Speaker 3: just used to be.

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Speaker 1: The only context that I remember high maintenance being thrown

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Speaker 1: around in is when I was younger, and we used

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Speaker 1: to say that about mate's girlfriends.

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Speaker 2: If they were like needy, oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: We called them.

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Speaker 1: We would always call them high maintenance, which is pretty gross.

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Speaker 4: Probably just wanted some love. It happened from their neglectful boyfriend. Absolutely,

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Speaker 4: But I would say in this context, I'm talking about

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Speaker 4: just the area in your life, and I'm probably like,

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Speaker 4: your partner is probably a good person in this context

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Speaker 4: to know what you're high may about. But the thing

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Speaker 4: in your life that you put a lot of time

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Speaker 4: and energy into it, it's high maintenance. You spend a

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Speaker 4: lot of time maintaining a part of your life.

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Speaker 3: Oh so that's what you mean.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so you might be really high maintenance around

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Speaker 4: your hygiene. So it's like I spend you know, I

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Speaker 4: have fourteen showers a day and I can't leave the

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Speaker 4: house unless I've had three showers in a row, or

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Speaker 4: you know, I've scrubbed all the excess skin off myself

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Speaker 4: before I leave. You'd say like that, I'm high maintenance

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Speaker 4: about that.

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Speaker 3: So you're home.

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Speaker 1: So the question is what in your life are you

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Speaker 1: high maintenance about. Yeah, that's what I'm actual very interested

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Speaker 1: to hear from you about.

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Speaker 4: I don't view you as a high maintenance person from

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Speaker 4: the outside, but I'm sure there is something in your

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Speaker 4: life that that is high maintenance for you.

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Speaker 2: I will kick things off.

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Speaker 4: This is actually something that mem and I have spoken

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Speaker 4: about recently. I'm I'm very high maintenance about my first

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Speaker 4: my first two hours after I wake up or there's

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Speaker 4: like certain things that I've really will strictly do and

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Speaker 4: it's very very structured because if I do that, I

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Speaker 4: feel really really good after and I just feel like

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Speaker 4: there's nothing life can throw at me that I can't

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Speaker 4: just absolutely smash through.

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Speaker 2: But that what am I displacing there?

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Speaker 4: And that's a conversation Mim and I have had because

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Speaker 4: this will sound weird, but so another thing that's an

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Speaker 4: absolute must for me is I always wake my daughter

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Speaker 4: up because I'm not there for bed Yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I'm there, but I am there in the morning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's at seven am.

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Speaker 4: So I need to do all of my stuff for

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Speaker 4: seven So from five am to seven am is like

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Speaker 4: your window.

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Speaker 2: That's my window to do all these things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Now the thing that that's sacrificing sometimes is so the

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Speaker 4: night before when that can be a time for mem

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Speaker 4: and I to be out, yeah, maybe having a drink

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Speaker 4: or maybe a bit later or Dad. Yeah, I'm going, well,

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Speaker 4: if I do that, yeah, then I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: be able to do this thing that.

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Speaker 2: I'm very high may about in the morning.

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Speaker 4: And at what point are you going to are you

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Speaker 4: going to have the ability to let some a day

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Speaker 4: go past where you let that go, You're going to

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Speaker 4: be okay if you And that is genuinely saying that

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Speaker 4: I'm grappling with.

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Speaker 3: That's good, it's good thing to grapple with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I was actually reading a piece of writing once about

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Speaker 1: a guy who was writing this great argument for what

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Speaker 1: he called an open door policy.

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: Well, he said that like a lot of creatives or

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Speaker 1: writers in particular, are really stringent about isolated time to themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like a closed door policy, like and it's sacred,

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Speaker 1: like I've got two hours to myself here, this is

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Speaker 1: my time.

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Speaker 3: I know exactly what I'm doing. Piss off.

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Speaker 1: And he was saying, the issue with that is that

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've made an interruption. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use a hobsy in word which is not gonna

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Speaker 1: make sense anyone, but a Leviathan, which is a sea monster.

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Speaker 2: And how is that a Hobsian?

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Speaker 3: What is he wrote it?

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Speaker 1: He wrote a book on about the Leviathan. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a legal theory book.

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Speaker 2: That's a huge fish.

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Speaker 3: It's a sea monster.

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Speaker 2: It's a big sea monster.

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Speaker 3: It's a sea monster.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so sorry, where's the sea monster.

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Speaker 1: Well, he said that the law needs to be a

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Speaker 1: leviathan to make people scared of it.

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Speaker 3: That was his theory.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, So basically, you're doing you need you're doing

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Speaker 1: the same thing. You're doing the same thing when it

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Speaker 1: comes to disruption by and by maybe just high maintenancing,

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Speaker 1: anything in general, is if you put it on a pedestal, yes,

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Speaker 1: I must do and I must do this, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to be good unless I do that. Then

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Speaker 1: anything which slightly gets in the way of that it

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be that much of an infraction.

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Speaker 3: But because you've.

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Speaker 1: Said you've put it on the pedestal, then the interruption

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Speaker 1: becomes murder. And he was like, that's as you get older,

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Speaker 1: you need to accept the fact that if you don't

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Speaker 1: open the door and let your life in, you will

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Speaker 1: miss out on your life because all you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: are these precious moments that you have to yourself.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I relate to that so much.

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Speaker 4: And the positive way of looking at that is I'm

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Speaker 4: and everyone in the team knows this, and I will

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Speaker 4: ghost from things when when it gets dark like I

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Speaker 4: really don't like, I don't actually enjoy the night.

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Speaker 2: I'm a morning person and.

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Speaker 3: Leave god asses on bins. It's a very dark time

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Speaker 3: for me. Get it made, but.

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Speaker 2: It's so, but it's in a positive way.

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Speaker 4: Like the bar, the bar of what I'm doing at

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Speaker 4: night needs to be really high.

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Speaker 2: Now because I literally go into it going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is it worthwhile? What's the trade off?

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Speaker 4: If I am going to really push the boat out tonight.

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Speaker 4: That's not necessarily in an alcohol sense or whatever. It's

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Speaker 4: just like sounds like I'm a child. But if I'm

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Speaker 4: going to stay up late, then I really want to

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Speaker 4: do that because I am sacking out in the morning.

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Speaker 4: In the morning, but you're right, if that bar is

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Speaker 4: too high, I am I'm closing off to.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that he said, which is I've

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Speaker 1: obviously been thinking about this a lot recently as well,

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Speaker 1: because I think it just comes with the territory of

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Speaker 1: having a child. The other thing he said is that

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Speaker 1: if you have a door open policy. When I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to continue with your analogy, if your dog walks

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Speaker 1: in or your child walks in and you have to

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Speaker 1: deal with that thing.

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Speaker 3: You also get a lot better at going I've been interrupted.

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Speaker 1: I can go back to that thing now and it

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Speaker 1: hasn't affected how I feel about it. It's a skill

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Speaker 1: where you have that closed door policy over your time

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Speaker 1: and you have that glass, you know, that protective glass

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Speaker 1: over that time. Every time it does get interrupted, or

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Speaker 1: let's say you wake up at six o'clock rather than

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Speaker 1: five o'clock, you would feel like, oh, God, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've fucked it this morning. I didn't get to do

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Speaker 1: everything that I wanted to do. But if you have

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Speaker 1: that more open policy, then that can happen and you go, oh,

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Speaker 1: I've still got an hour, and how am I going

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Speaker 1: to make.

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Speaker 3: The most of this?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I personally I think that's been a very

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Speaker 1: hard thing for me to learn. But I think that

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Speaker 1: I think the philosophy needs to be doing something is

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Speaker 1: better than doing nothing. Anyone who's trying to I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether you've got an exercise goal or if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to write a book like me, or whatever thing

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Speaker 1: that you're doing which you're working, which you're chipping away on.

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Speaker 1: Just having some sort of a constant thread to that,

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Speaker 1: even if it isn't in the perfect regime, means you're

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Speaker 1: still making contact with it.

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Speaker 4: It was very hard to pull myself away from a

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Speaker 4: sadoku the other morning, like I was, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was a hard one. Is this part of your

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Speaker 3: two hours? Well?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes it varies, but like I like I am,

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Speaker 4: I have worked my absolute ass off. And if anyone

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Speaker 4: found out there, I know you're out there, a couple

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Speaker 4: of you under the rocks there. But you know that

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Speaker 4: the real joy of sudoku comes at the end. It's

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Speaker 4: a lot of the fair bit of pain and suffering

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Speaker 4: at the start where you're making all your freaking notes

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Speaker 4: and you're like, oh God, but when they start dropping

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Speaker 4: like Domino's, the feeling will the feeling.

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Speaker 1: And you're telling me that you're canceling, like having a

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Speaker 1: nice dinner with mem and like, you know, doing some

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Speaker 1: good stuff in your relationship to put a few late

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Speaker 1: numbers in a sadoku.

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Speaker 2: Now, don't you? Don't you dishes?

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Speaker 3: Is that is that?

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Speaker 2: Like, it's not it's not not necessarily always dogs. I'm not.

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Speaker 1: In the morning dove punching dogs. What would you like

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Speaker 1: to watch another episode? No, man, you know how precious

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Speaker 1: this time is to me. Got a spicy dog upstairs,

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Speaker 1: I can whine to crack in but it becomes, but

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Speaker 1: it becomes the point that you're saying is and I

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Speaker 1: think this is interesting that you know, I am joking

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Speaker 1: about the small things here, like you know, for example,

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Speaker 1: you focusing on your saidoku and I think that I

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Speaker 1: think that's also a really nice thing to do to

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Speaker 1: yourself is actually look at how silly it is the

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Speaker 1: thing that you have put in a glass casing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because then you realize how much. And I'll call it

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Speaker 1: addiction because that's what I think it is. You have

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Speaker 1: become addicted to how you feel after that or the

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Speaker 1: idea of doing that meaning something to you. Like you've

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Speaker 1: totally brought into that narrative. So you're like, well, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what happens. And I remember I because I was

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Speaker 1: a lot worse than I am at this, probably about

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Speaker 1: ten years ago and no, probably little bit less, but

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Speaker 1: it was when I was in Perth. I was really

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Speaker 1: depressed and one of the issues I had was I

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Speaker 1: could never and I still got this issue big time.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'm late everywhere because I would rather I

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Speaker 1: would rather be late. And again this happens at a

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Speaker 1: subconscious level, but subconsciously, my brain says, you would rather

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Speaker 1: be late to something than not do the thing that

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Speaker 1: you're currently doing and finish it and do it well,

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Speaker 1: because you'll hate yourself if you don't do it right.

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Speaker 2: Get in, you want to get even the start of

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Speaker 2: the show. But yeah, that's fast.

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Speaker 1: That's the argument that that's what goes on in my

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Speaker 1: head there. So I remember, And I had the same

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Speaker 1: thing with mornings as well. I was like i would

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Speaker 1: wake up and I'd be like, Okay, I've got to

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Speaker 1: get this done, this done, this done, and this done.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't have a child then, so it'd be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd be sitting aside like five hours at

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Speaker 1: a time, bloody yeah, because I was studying at the time,

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Speaker 1: or to finish my law degree while we're doing Refast radio.

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Speaker 1: And it was just so much and I've got shingles

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Speaker 1: as a result.

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Speaker 3: But it was a rash.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was a rash. Walked into the chemist,

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Speaker 4: I was like, can I get some creep for this rash?

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Speaker 4: And she's like, I mean, that's not a rash. He

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Speaker 4: actually went at the gym with Will and he was

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Speaker 4: he was working out and he was, oh.

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Speaker 2: My god, I'm overheating this goddamn rash, and he took

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Speaker 2: his shirt off in the middle of the gym and

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Speaker 2: he was like, I'm breaking out in a rash. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, I think there's a problem.

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Speaker 3: Gracious stress to express itself, guys, it will get out.

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Speaker 3: Should we take this time to get a message from

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Speaker 3: our sponsors?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, because I've got to hit you with a pearl.

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Speaker 1: A pearl from my my psychologist, which which helped me

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Speaker 1: with this high maintenance thing that whether it's with your

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Speaker 1: morning or whether you with your your gardening and you

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Speaker 1: obsess over it.

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Speaker 4: If you're high made with something or do it up next,

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Speaker 4: it stops. We're going to bed as well. People are

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Speaker 4: late night people anyway, enjoy this.

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Speaker 3: What an ad.

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Speaker 1: So we were talking about high maintenance and how once

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Speaker 1: he gets stuck on that cycle of I've got to

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Speaker 1: do that thing to feel good or for things to

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Speaker 1: be right, give me the pearl. So my college at

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Speaker 1: the time, Claire, who I was, who I was seeing

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Speaker 1: quite a lot of that time, she said she started

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Speaker 1: doing this thing with me called the worst case scenario test.

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Speaker 1: So we'd be talking about like something that I had

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Speaker 1: to do. So let's say it was at the time

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Speaker 1: I was studying to do law right, and it was

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Speaker 1: really big. It was so much going on, and I

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Speaker 1: was really cramming in the study, but I was physically exhausted.

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Speaker 1: As we just heard, I got jingles, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to skip the exam. And she would say to me, okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's say you're looking at the afternoon.

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Speaker 3: This is what happens.

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Speaker 1: I find with this high maintenance obsessing over efficiency of

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Speaker 1: time is you start to get anxious about free time.

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Speaker 1: I should be doing this because you look at the

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Speaker 1: free time or even with your morning time, You're like,

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Speaker 1: that's the time. And if I'm not doing that, like

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Speaker 1: insert whatever narrative that is, I'm a failure.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to be great today.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be as good as I can

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Speaker 1: whatever that narrative is for you guys, where you're looking

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Speaker 1: at time and feeling that you should be using it

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Speaker 1: in a particular way.

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Speaker 4: And the hyperbole that comes from what happens if you

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Speaker 4: don't do it, Like I'm more than happy to share

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Speaker 4: like if I if I don't do that, yeah, like

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Speaker 4: I will be I'll be sad, Like my emotions will

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Speaker 4: be low, and then again the radio show will be awful.

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Speaker 2: Because you will be slow. Yeah, and it's predicul it's ridiculous. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: actually ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: But but you read, you drink the kool aid, like.

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Speaker 4: Totally, totally, totally, and you start convincing yourself that, like,

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Speaker 4: the only reason things are going quite well, because things

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Speaker 4: are going pretty well the man, yeah killing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: the only and you start you start going and the

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Speaker 4: only reason that's happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because you're hitting ducks in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, See, I don't have that.

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Speaker 4: I don't have that that cause and effect thing with

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Speaker 4: this pattern of behavior as leading to success superstition, I

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Speaker 4: don't have that, But I do have the fear alone.

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Speaker 3: I do have the fear.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you have that quite genuinely with lots of

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Speaker 1: things you very assume stitious person. Absolutely, So let's run

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Speaker 1: with you one of your superstitions and for this pet

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Speaker 1: so it's called the worst cast scenario test.

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Speaker 3: Yea.

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Speaker 4: So she would be like, Okay, so what's the thing

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Speaker 4: you're worried about. If I don't DOOKU in the morning,

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Speaker 4: I will not be sharp, my brain will be foggy

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Speaker 4: all day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm gonna running through it. So if you

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Speaker 1: don't do sodoka in the morning, Yeah, what's the worst

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Speaker 1: thing that can happen?

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Speaker 3: I don't do it?

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Speaker 4: Just give me the first step if I don't do it? Yeah, First,

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Speaker 4: the first thing it's going to happen, There'll be an

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Speaker 4: undone sodoka upstairs, okay?

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Speaker 3: And then what's the worst thing that's going to happen

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Speaker 3: after that?

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Speaker 4: I'll be I having not done my sodoku, I'm nowhere.

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Speaker 4: And then what's the worst thing that's going to happen

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Speaker 4: after that awful radio show? And what's the worst thing

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Speaker 4: that's going to happen after that?

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Speaker 2: Get fired straight away?

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Speaker 3: What's the worst thing that's going to happen after that?

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Speaker 2: Unemployed?

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Speaker 3: What's the worst thing that's going to happen after that?

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Speaker 2: Can't support my family?

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Speaker 3: What's the worst thing that's going to happen after that?

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Speaker 2: Family leaves me?

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Speaker 3: What's the worst thing that's gonna happen after that?

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Speaker 2: Very unhappy in my apartment without my family?

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Speaker 3: And what's the worst thing that's going to happen after that?

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Speaker 4: I see on Instagram Mims moved on with the more

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Speaker 4: impressive man, and then I see my daughter calling the

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Speaker 4: new guy Dad, make me go further.

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Speaker 2: Please don't make me go further, because it keeps going down.

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Speaker 3: Surely you can't go further than.

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Speaker 4: Would bloody hope. Just don't ask me the question what's

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Speaker 4: the worst thing you can happen? After that, then my

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Speaker 4: family start weirdly. They always like memoir. And then she

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Speaker 4: nims having Christmas at my family. My family is Christmas,

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Speaker 4: so I'm having Christmas alone.

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Speaker 2: The guy there as well, I love him. Guess what,

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Speaker 2: because you're unemployed?

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Speaker 4: The new partner does the radio show with Will Now, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's a that's the next step he is now doing

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Speaker 2: and he's your best.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's pretty bad, are there?

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Speaker 4: I would hope that, i'd bloody hope. Okay, so thanks

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Speaker 4: thanks for chipping in.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I really appreciate that. That's nice.

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Speaker 3: Nice touch, step, nice touch.

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Speaker 1: So basically, you run it all the way down and

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Speaker 1: whether it is as imaginative as what is is or

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Speaker 1: it's not, you basically get to ground zero, yeah right,

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Speaker 1: and get familiar with that, Like get.

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Speaker 2: Why when I want to get familiar with.

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Speaker 1: That, because because once you know the worst thing that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen, once you see what that space looks like,

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Speaker 1: the next question she would ask is what are you

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Speaker 1: going to do?

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Speaker 3: And my answer is.

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Speaker 2: Probably start probably start working.

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Speaker 3: I'd probably roll over one day and probably just like

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Speaker 3: get going again. And she was like, well, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: Or I'd never miss a doka ever again because something

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Speaker 4: really bad happened when I missed the dog. I'm going

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Speaker 4: to start hidding dogs probably earlier. I'm going to start

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Speaker 4: hitting two dogs today.

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Speaker 1: So my point is for everyone who wants to play

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Speaker 1: this practically with themselves, it is a really really good

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Speaker 1: thing to do if you're worried about feeling as if

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Speaker 1: you're not doing something, and it's going to have a

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Speaker 1: cause and effect. Because if you get to what's realistically

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Speaker 1: the cause and effect there, which I think the end

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Speaker 1: of the line there was probably do a bad radio show.

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Speaker 1: That's probably the realistic end to that scenario.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's any world where oh I can't

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Speaker 4: be had cent sure, but there's no world if I

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Speaker 4: have a say, if I did have a slightly offragiom, which

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Speaker 4: by the way.

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Speaker 2: Happens all the time I do a doc in the morning. Yeah, gantee, you're.

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Speaker 3: Gonna have a great show exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the point is that you get really like comfortable

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Speaker 1: with what the worst case scenario is, and then that

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Speaker 1: because you know that you can bounce back from what

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Speaker 1: the worst case scenario is. Because the worst case scenarios,

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Speaker 1: you do a bad radio show, what do you do

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Speaker 1: from there? Well, probably just make sure I don't do

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Speaker 1: another one the next day or the next day. Like

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Speaker 1: once you know what that scenario is, then that can

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Speaker 1: loosen your grip a little bit on the thing that

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Speaker 1: you're obsessing over because you're like, well, that thing doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter as much to me because even if I don't

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Speaker 1: do it, I know what the worst thing possible is from.

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Speaker 3: It, and that gives me a little bit more freedom.

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Speaker 2: Actually brilliant, It's really really and you would do.

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Speaker 1: That with me all the time because I would come

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Speaker 1: in and be really worried about a conversation I have

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Speaker 1: with someone or some issues in my family at the time,

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Speaker 1: and it would let you get to the point where

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Speaker 1: it'd be like, oh, so I know, I don't talk

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Speaker 1: to my sister for six months, and she'd be like okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then what happens I'd probably like one day wake

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Speaker 1: up and call her and like try and read connect.

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Speaker 3: Great.

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Speaker 2: Done.

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Speaker 4: So it's it's it's almost like it's like that old

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Speaker 4: Thing's the only thing thing to fear is fear itself.

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Speaker 3: The Boogeyman is so big with the thing.

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Speaker 4: There's things that you obsess over because you don't know

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Speaker 4: what it is yet it's so scared of, like confronting

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Speaker 4: the thing that you're scared of, that you put all

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Speaker 4: these things in place to make sure that it doesn't happen,

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Speaker 4: and they're the things that end up pushing you over

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Speaker 4: the edge.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't be motivated by fear

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Speaker 2: that never works.

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Speaker 3: Never works.

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Speaker 2: Although bloody hell, i'd swim fast if a shark was

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Speaker 2: chasing me. I say that. I say that outlaud like,

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Speaker 2: don't be motivated by.

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Speaker 3: Works. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys, have a

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Speaker 3: great astut