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Speaker 1: Black Cast nine our voices. Welcome to the Black Magic

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Speaker 1: Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. Welcome to another amazing episode

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Speaker 1: here on beautiful Kubbycubby Country the Clean Energy Network. But

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Speaker 1: get this, First Nations Clean Energy Network gathering is happening

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Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes down the road for me. So what

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Speaker 1: an amazing opportunity to come down the road here on

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Speaker 1: the Sunshine Couras. If you don't know where Kubbycubby Country is,

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Speaker 1: we're at the overtok Twin Waters. Thank you for joining,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're on YouTube. Ruby, my sister, thank you

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Speaker 1: for coming in to our little studio here, little makeshift

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Speaker 1: studio to share your story and just have a yarn.

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Speaker 1: I was told by another brother here from another mother

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Speaker 1: that I needed a yarn with you. So Michael, well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for the referral rebrief you don't mind, just

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Speaker 1: for our listeners and viewers on YouTube. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to share a little bit about yourself? You might start

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Speaker 1: with your name, your mob, and a little bit about

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Speaker 1: where you grew up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so thanks so much for having me. I'm an

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Speaker 2: electrical engineer. My family, I'm a descendant of the jar

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Speaker 2: U and Gidja peoples of the Kimberly Western Australia.

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Speaker 3: But I was actually.

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Speaker 2: Born in Victoria and now find myself living in beautiful

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Speaker 2: sunny Queensland up in Rockhampton, where I've also got some

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Speaker 2: lovely family connections to make me feel very welcome.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I've been working in the.

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Speaker 2: Clean energy space for the last maybe nine years over

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Speaker 2: in the US and here in Australia for the last

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Speaker 2: seven years.

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Speaker 3: I mean running my own company.

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Speaker 2: A Linger Energy Consulting and basically putting all of my

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Speaker 2: energy and my efforts into the renewer bleantergy space and

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Speaker 2: figuring out how we can get benefits and participation to

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Speaker 2: mob So Alinga means it's the Sun goddess basically, so

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Speaker 2: I wanted to pay respect to the Sun. It's where

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Speaker 2: all of our energy comes from, whether it's it's wind,

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Speaker 2: you know, look into wind. Wind is generated by heat differentials.

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Speaker 2: It's all about the Sun.

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Speaker 3: We're using solar power.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, every bit of energy

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Speaker 2: that's on this planet comes from our beautiful Sun.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I only in the last kind of

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Speaker 1: ten years of delivering training and supporting a lot of clients,

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Speaker 1: and some of them more recently are directly in this

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Speaker 1: space in terms of big renewable energy companies that are

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Speaker 1: looking for like cultural capability, skills and an uplift to

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Speaker 1: be able to better engage with not just our mob

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Speaker 1: in terms of First Nations peoples, but predominantly traditional owners

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Speaker 1: right who are the cultural authority for their country. And

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Speaker 1: we're trying to teach people how to operate on Aboriginal terms,

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Speaker 1: but when they're in these communities that they're operating on

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Speaker 1: their terms in that community, can you share a little

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Speaker 1: bit about maybe some of the work that you've done

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Speaker 1: or you're doing at the moment, so our listeners can

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Speaker 1: kind of get a feel for the clean energy space

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Speaker 1: for people that are not kind of up to date

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Speaker 1: with renewables and sustainable ESG goals and a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that some of our mob and even non Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: people just everyday people are not too sure about or

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Speaker 1: they're just not educated about this very important topic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So it wasn't always the case that we were

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Speaker 2: a part of this conversation, and myself and some others,

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Speaker 2: particularly Karina Nolan from Original Power, realized that we were

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Speaker 2: about to be left behind on another big economic opportunity.

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Speaker 2: So the resources boom happened without us, and we've seen

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Speaker 2: minimal benefits from that, and we didn't want that to

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Speaker 2: happen again with the renewable energy space. And so in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, really pushed by Karna, was the formation

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Speaker 2: of the First Nation's Clean Energy Network. So I've been

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Speaker 2: engaged since then. I'm on the steering committee of the network.

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Speaker 3: And we basically have taken this thing big. So we

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Speaker 3: took it.

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Speaker 2: From us not really not having any seat at the table,

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Speaker 2: not being part of the conversation, to now being us

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Speaker 2: to speak at every single conference. Every energy conference has

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Speaker 2: sessions around First Nations and traditional owners and negotiation and

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Speaker 2: every part of the energy transition and how it affects

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Speaker 2: us and how it can benefit us and how we

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Speaker 2: can actually get in the driver's seat of this. And

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Speaker 2: that really is like you know, there's so much of

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Speaker 2: that was driven by the formation of the network. So

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Speaker 2: we're a member based organization and we're really trying to

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Speaker 2: do things for community, and so we're working across multiple

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Speaker 2: layers directly with community, giving them information and education so

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Speaker 2: that they know how to negotiate with these companies. They

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Speaker 2: know they're informed. We're working with industry setting standards for

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Speaker 2: this is how we expect you to come into our

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Speaker 2: communities and work with them. And finally, with government doing

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Speaker 2: tons of work around policy, how do we change policy

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Speaker 2: to make sure that there is a more supportive environment

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Speaker 2: for us to participate.

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Speaker 1: What some of the successes so far that you've seen

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Speaker 1: in just a short space of time.

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Speaker 2: Well, like I said, being part of the conversation is

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Speaker 2: in itself an amazing success. We're now seeing over twenty

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Speaker 2: First Nations led clean energy projects from everything from concept

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Speaker 2: and development stage through to constructed, so that is a

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Speaker 2: massive win.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing the educational.

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Speaker 2: Programs that are being rolled out by the network, So

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Speaker 2: we have every year been taking around thirty Indigenous people

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Speaker 2: from around the country, putting them through a week of

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Speaker 2: intensive training to become the next energy leaders. So now

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Speaker 2: there's so much more about there who have the information

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Speaker 2: to take back to their communities.

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Speaker 1: You're telling me about some media training that you got

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Speaker 1: given as part of this program. Can you share a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the Was it the power?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So that's the power makers the power Yeah. So we're

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Speaker 2: teaching them about energy, teaching them about how electricity works

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Speaker 2: in Australia, how the markets, work how their small community

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Speaker 2: might be able to look to renewable energy either to

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Speaker 2: create a more resilient power system for themselves, work on

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Speaker 2: their energy security, reduce their energy costs.

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Speaker 1: Because these costs are quite enormous for mob, especially in

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Speaker 1: rural and remote and very remote parts of this country.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's a huge part of the conversation.

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Speaker 2: And so Karna's organization, Original Power, was originally focused on

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Speaker 2: on advocacy and human rights and that sort of thing,

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Speaker 2: and she realized how critical energy was to ensuring that

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Speaker 2: we were healthy, that we had access to communications and

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Speaker 2: all of these modern conveniences. That mob deserved to have

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Speaker 2: access to. Energy is a huge part of that, and

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Speaker 2: I think one of the most important aspects of it

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Speaker 2: being we've got a lot of people in the top

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Speaker 2: end living in substandard housing.

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Speaker 3: The climate is extreme.

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Speaker 2: Up there, and they need air conditioning, and they're being

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Speaker 2: subjected to prepayment meters which are cutting them off and

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Speaker 2: leaving them in you know, un air conditions.

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Speaker 1: Way they get these cards, don't they. I've got some

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Speaker 1: of our mob that sometimes ask us to top up

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Speaker 1: a card. Yeah, I'm sure cre paid tell us about

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Speaker 1: these cards because a lot of people in probably Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: Brisbane and Sydney would not have a clue that this

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Speaker 1: is this is the reality for especially the most vulnerable

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Speaker 1: and marginalized populations in this country, which are Aboriginal people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people in the energy industry are

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Speaker 2: not aware of these power cards.

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Speaker 3: So some of our.

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Speaker 2: Communities literally need to go and pick up a physical voucher,

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Speaker 2: just like an old prepaid phone, pick up a physical

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Speaker 2: voucher to go and plug that into their met to

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Speaker 2: have access to power. And when that credit runs out,

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Speaker 2: their power disconnects. And so you can imagine if you're

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Speaker 2: living out of town, how far you might have to

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Speaker 2: drive at a time that's.

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Speaker 3: Very inconvenient to you.

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Speaker 2: Maybe the shop's not open, maybe it's Sunday and the

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Speaker 2: shops closed.

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Speaker 3: So we've got mob.

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Speaker 2: Walking around to family and neighbors saying, oh, can I

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Speaker 2: borrow a power card?

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Speaker 3: Do you have a spare one? And it's just not something.

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Speaker 2: That we would ever subject our towns and cities too.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, it's wild that it's unheard of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it wasn't until I went for a

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Speaker 1: trip to Gama with AGL. I've been working with AHL

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Speaker 1: and I'm helping them with their rap because my mob

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Speaker 1: are from the Hunter Valley. We want to real people.

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Speaker 1: And there's a connection there with AGL and my uncle,

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Speaker 1: my deadly uncle lor Perry, who told AGL you should

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Speaker 1: talk to my niece to do some training, which was

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Speaker 1: an amazing opportunity. But it was AGL that invited me

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Speaker 1: to Garma, and it was the mob up there that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about these cards, and I had no idea

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Speaker 1: what they were talking about. So yeah, the AGL mob

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Speaker 1: told me about these cards, and I said, this is crazy.

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Speaker 1: This is such a rich country, the mining, the resources

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Speaker 1: that are developed and shipped out of this exported out

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Speaker 1: of this country, and yet we're still living in substantate housing.

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Speaker 1: We're still if you think about the Abishal population, half

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Speaker 1: of us are living below the poverty line. How do

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Speaker 1: we And like you said, this is all about being

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Speaker 1: in the driver's seat, not being caught in to have

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Speaker 1: a look at the program or the gender. Once it

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Speaker 1: has been set, we're in the driver's seat now and

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Speaker 1: it's like we've got power, maybe a little bit of power.

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Speaker 1: We're in the room, we're at the table. Now, what's

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges that you're seeing or you've experienced

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Speaker 1: that you want to share with people, especially in the industry.

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Speaker 1: In the sectors, these big multinational corporations might be the

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Speaker 1: people that you could speak to.

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Speaker 3: There's still a lot of challenges.

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Speaker 2: Some of them are technical, a lot of them are

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Speaker 2: financial and economic. So you know, these are the types

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Speaker 2: of conversations we're having at this conference, bringing the right

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Speaker 2: parties together. We've got government in the room, with industry,

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Speaker 2: with community, you know, everybody's here to talk about these

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Speaker 2: issues and what we might do to overcome them. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: a huge portion of it is funding issues and.

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Speaker 1: The funding funding from who to wear.

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Speaker 2: So for instance, we have about four million rooftop solar

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Speaker 2: systems across Australia. How many of those are on mob houses?

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Speaker 2: Very few of them. Funding is one barrier our households

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Speaker 2: having the capital, but then there's all these other complex

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Speaker 2: issues that overlay as well, not owning enough of our houses,

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Speaker 2: so then you've got to talk to the Aboriginal Housing Corporation.

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Speaker 2: You know, it just becomes super complex. Something that should

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Speaker 2: be easy because everybody else is just able to go

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Speaker 2: and get a solar system, you know, very easily and

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Speaker 2: get massive benefits from those That's.

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Speaker 1: What I was thinking, like, is there anything that you

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Speaker 1: can see is achievable or what's some of the things

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Speaker 1: that you know that there are solutions now, but we

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Speaker 1: don't have the right people at the table.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean we're starting to get the right

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Speaker 2: people at the table, I guess is the first thing.

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Speaker 2: So funding organizations like the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. The

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Speaker 2: last twelve months I've been on the board, you know,

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Speaker 2: just continuously bringing back First Nations challenges and you know,

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Speaker 2: how do we get in here and how do we

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Speaker 2: solve these issues. We've got organizations starting to work together,

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Speaker 2: Indigenous Business Australia, you know, starting to talk to Arena.

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Speaker 2: We've got the first Nation's clean energy strategy. So the

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Speaker 2: Network did a lot of work of the last couple

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Speaker 2: of years to assist the federal government to go out

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Speaker 2: and talk to mob and so we went out and

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Speaker 2: had we had round tables in every single state and territory.

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Speaker 2: We invited community to come, you know, facilitated them to

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Speaker 2: get from their remote community to the table with government

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Speaker 2: and tell them directly what it was that they needed

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Speaker 2: from the clean energy transition. And from that conversation we've

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Speaker 2: now got a strategy, we've now got a draft implementation plan, and.

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Speaker 3: You know, so there's some things are moving.

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Speaker 2: There's some money that's just been announced towards that, Like

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Speaker 2: this is a ball that's going to keep rolling.

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Speaker 1: Of course, this is early days if you think about it, right. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the network was set up five years ago, yes, four years ago. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and here we are today with four hundred and fifty deli.

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Speaker 1: It's sitting in this room now and that speakers turn

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Speaker 1: about some of the speakers, who are you excited to

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Speaker 1: hear or for people to hear?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's fantastic when we can bring speakers from community

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Speaker 2: that government and industry don't usually get exposure to.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're not usually in the same room.

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Speaker 2: That's the beauty of this conference is we make sure

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Speaker 2: we get community out here so they're able to tell

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Speaker 2: their stories. So we are, we're doing a lot of

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Speaker 2: that work, that advocacy piece. We're being the voice for

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Speaker 2: a lot of our communities. But we also want them

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Speaker 2: to have a platform and so that's they're the speakers

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Speaker 2: that I get most excited about, and they're the speakers

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Speaker 2: that I will hear industry and government going oh well,

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Speaker 2: that blew me away that we had a young islander girl.

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Speaker 3: Just speaking a lot from Arab.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and wasn't she amazing impact?

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Speaker 1: For goodness, I was like writing down notes, going so

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Speaker 1: she's a climate advocate for Arab and she's a language

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Speaker 1: teacher keeping language strong, and her father was one of

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Speaker 1: the last speakers of the language. And a young josh

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Speaker 1: underwoman and opened up in language. There was so much

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Speaker 1: power in that, and she's so far from home. I

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Speaker 1: just thought to myself, if there was not this opportunity,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't know about the challenges that are impacting those islands,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people in this country that

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Speaker 1: don't even know where the Torrest Trade Islands are. And

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Speaker 1: we are a minority and they are a minority within

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Speaker 1: a minority. So it was really good to hear sister

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Speaker 1: girl talk about some of the challenges, but not even

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. You hear a lot of our challenges.

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Speaker 1: But that's what are some of the successes? What are

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Speaker 1: you most proud of? What are we looking forward to?

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Speaker 1: What does this sector have to be able to look

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Speaker 1: forward to?

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Speaker 2: I think the empower mom peace right, the fact that

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Speaker 2: people know that they can start their own project. Now

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Speaker 2: we have created negotiation guides to put in the hands

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Speaker 2: of communities so that they're not having renewable energy developers

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Speaker 2: proponents coming to them and they have no idea how

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Speaker 2: to interact with them. So we're starting to set those

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Speaker 2: standards from both sides, from industry side expectations to community

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Speaker 2: side power, information education, and we've just we're just building

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Speaker 2: the whole thing from the ground up, right, And I

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Speaker 2: think we've gotten there in time that we're being able

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Speaker 2: to make changes in real time now and see the.

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Speaker 3: Benefits start to flow.

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Speaker 2: So that's what I'm most excited about that I do

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Speaker 2: see change happening.

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Speaker 1: And what are you in terms of your background? You know,

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Speaker 1: you tell me your back on what do you study?

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Speaker 2: Electrical and electronic engineering Victoria University?

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Speaker 1: Wow, how did you get into that? What made you

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Speaker 1: want to choose that field or course of study?

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Speaker 2: So I always knew I wanted to save the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I had.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in country Victoria, huge connection to the environment,

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Speaker 2: and I just wanted it to be saved. And so

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Speaker 2: I remember thinking when I was about fifteen sixteen, you know,

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Speaker 2: like what can you do as a fifteen sixteen year

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Speaker 2: old that makes you feel like you're saving the world recycling,

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Speaker 2: you know, and so I would. I was the one

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Speaker 2: at the party like going around picking everyone it's cans

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Speaker 2: up and going, you have to put them in the

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Speaker 2: recycle bin, guys, because that's all the power I had.

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Speaker 2: And so I thought, oh, well, maybe I should get

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Speaker 2: into recycling.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I should open up a big recycling plant.

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Speaker 2: And then I thought further and went, yeah, but if

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Speaker 2: you're using fossil fuels, this stuff I've heard about is

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Speaker 2: really bad for the planet. So if you using fossil fuels,

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Speaker 2: you're still harming the environment. It's got to start with

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Speaker 2: a different.

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Speaker 3: Way of generating power.

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Speaker 2: And so sixteen year old me made that decision and

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Speaker 2: decided to pursue that. At university, I didn't take the

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Speaker 2: right classes in year eleven and.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't take physics.

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Speaker 2: I had to catch up in year twelve when I

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Speaker 2: realized I'd made a mistake.

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Speaker 3: So that was a challenge.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I got into the COSS with one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty students, five women. I graduated four years later

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Speaker 2: with about twenty students.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, really quickly, twenty shyeent's how many

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Speaker 1: were indigenous sue this one.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but we graduated with about twenty or twenty five

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Speaker 2: kids and five women.

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Speaker 1: Five women. Yeah, so my black woman.

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Speaker 2: Made it through well. In my course, I was actually

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Speaker 2: the white woman. Why because everyone else was of an

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Speaker 2: Asian background, and so I was seen as the odd

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Speaker 2: one out and they said, well, you're the white girl,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing here? Because it was acceptable for

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Speaker 2: someone with an a Asian background to be in an

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Speaker 2: engineering course, and they thought it was very strange to

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Speaker 2: have someone who's white in the course. So it's like

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Speaker 2: this very layered racism that I've had to do the game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even imagine in terms of just, you know,

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Speaker 1: going through this study with not many people around you,

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Speaker 1: like at that time going for university. Who was you

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Speaker 1: aspiring to be or what was it that was kind

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Speaker 1: of motivating you to keep going even in your toughest times.

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Speaker 3: Just an internal north star that.

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Speaker 2: I kept following and knowing that that was my direction.

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Speaker 2: Like I've been very fortunate to always since I made

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Speaker 2: that decision when I was sixteen, never questioned it and

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Speaker 2: just kept moving in that direction.

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Speaker 1: How hard was university for a lot of our young mob?

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Speaker 1: Now that I want to speak to that listened to

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Speaker 1: this podcast and middle age mob too, that are actually

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Speaker 1: either thinking about going to university. Tell us about university,

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Speaker 1: like even you know the ups and downs. Maybe a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have got this fear and I was

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Speaker 1: one of it, and that fear held me back from

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Speaker 1: going to university into last forty one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say if you have waited, you have

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Speaker 2: such a better chance of success because you have so

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Speaker 2: much more experience and resilience, and so you know, don't

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Speaker 2: be afraid to go to university later. I actually think

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Speaker 2: that's a really good option. You'll probably do better, You'll

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Speaker 2: probably get more out of it because you'll put more

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Speaker 2: into it because you know you want to be there.

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Speaker 2: Young people can be very flaky and you know they're

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Speaker 2: not sure they want to be there. So yeah, and

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Speaker 2: if you are a young person, look, it can be tough,

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Speaker 2: especially if you're in a course like electrical engineering. It's

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Speaker 2: not easy. And you know a lot of people found that.

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Speaker 2: But look, at the end of the day, I found

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Speaker 2: it hard to you know, everyone's going to find it hard.

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Speaker 2: You've got to put in the work. When I first

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Speaker 2: got there, I had watched too many American movies, and

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Speaker 2: I thought university was.

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Speaker 3: Going to be more about parties and fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, big party.

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Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah, not so if you're in engineering. Look, there's

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Speaker 2: some other courses that have got a bit more flexibility.

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Speaker 3: You got it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you do have to buckle down if you've you've

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Speaker 2: picked a very serious subject, but look, it can be

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Speaker 2: well worth it.

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Speaker 1: Who are your mentors?

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Speaker 3: Well, I have a.

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Speaker 2: Few different mentors in my life, so I do have

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Speaker 2: some mentors in the electrical engineering space, Indigenous, non indigenous alike.

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Speaker 2: They bring different things to me. And then I also

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Speaker 2: have spiritual mentoring to make sure that I am coming

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Speaker 2: back to who I really am all the time and

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Speaker 2: not getting sucked too much into the western world and

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Speaker 2: the workspace.

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Speaker 1: Oh my sister, it's been an absolute delight to hear

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Speaker 1: your story and just your passion and the power that

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Speaker 1: you brought into the room, the power you bring into

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Speaker 1: this space, into this sector, and just the inspiration for

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Speaker 1: our younger mob in particular, to see someone like you

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Speaker 1: that has done a degree in electrical engineering setting up

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Speaker 1: your own company and leading some of these conversations within

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Speaker 1: this country. When it comes to policy, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to government, when it comes to mob setting those creating

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Speaker 1: guidelines and protocols and opportunities for the industry or the

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Speaker 1: sector to better engage with our mob. We know that

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Speaker 1: it's not always going to go right, but at least

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Speaker 1: people are trying to do the right thing, and they've

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Speaker 1: got the support and guidance from the First Nation's Clean

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Speaker 1: Engine Network. My sister, I can't wait to work with you.

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Speaker 1: I'll be literally reaching out to you to see how

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Speaker 1: we can support each other with the work that we

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Speaker 1: both do. Thank you for taking a little bit of

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Speaker 1: time out of your busy day to join me here

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Speaker 1: on the Black Magic Woman Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed. There's Deadly Yan Until next time.

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Speaker 1: Bye for now. If you'd like any more info on

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Speaker 1: today's guest, please visit our show notes in the episode description.

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Speaker 1: A big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and

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00:22:22,271 --> 00:22:25,951
Speaker 1: allies who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.

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00:22:26,151 --> 00:22:29,471
Speaker 1: Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review

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Speaker 1: the podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to

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Speaker 1: our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman

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Speaker 1: Podcast is produced by Clint Curtis,