Speaker 1: My name is Mark Mariana. I'm a storyteller on Find
Speaker 1: and Tell. I'm Filipino and live on Diric Land. I'd
Speaker 1: like to recognize the traditional custodians of this continent whose
Speaker 1: land was stolen nearly two hundred and fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: in particular the Cama, Eagle and Uruanderie people whose land
Speaker 1: this podcast was recorded on, and we extend our respect
Speaker 1: to all Aboriginal and Torrest Street Islander peoples. The rich
Speaker 1: storytelling history of the world's oldest living culture is what
Speaker 1: we pay homage to when we tell our stories on
Speaker 1: Find and Tell.
Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Jamila Risby.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to Find and Tell, the search for the
Speaker 3: next generation of Australian storytellers. Each week, our storytellers go
Speaker 3: head to head to see who finds and tells the
Speaker 3: best story, and every win brings them a step closer
Speaker 3: to being crowned the Find and Tell Champion and winning
Speaker 3: the grand prize. We've now met all four of our storytellers, Mark, Naar,
Speaker 3: Kate and Ben and the competition.
Speaker 2: Is starting to heat up.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I have been blown away by the quality of
Speaker 3: the stories that each of them has created so far.
Speaker 3: It's genuinely incredible when you remember that they have never made.
Speaker 2: Anything like this before.
Speaker 3: Okay, so far Mark and Ben have each taken home
Speaker 3: a win that we.
Speaker 2: Are far from finished.
Speaker 3: Today we have a new theme, Forgive and Forget. First
Speaker 3: up to tackle the challenge is Mark.
Speaker 2: When we last.
Speaker 3: Heard from Mark, he told a really beautiful story about
Speaker 3: spirituality and sexuality.
Speaker 2: Let's see what story he can find for us this time. Mark,
Speaker 2: welcome back to find and tell.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be back.
Speaker 3: Okay, we've done this. We've done this once. It's out
Speaker 3: in the world. So you've had that feeling of it's
Speaker 3: about to happen, and it's happened.
Speaker 2: You're ready to go again.
Speaker 1: I'm so ready.
Speaker 3: I think you're ready too. This week's theme is forgive
Speaker 3: and Forget, so we're not we're not pulling any punches
Speaker 3: forgiven forget. What was your first reaction when you saw
Speaker 3: that written on the page?
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I fell to the ground. I was sobbing.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: I you know, it's such an interesting topic, interesting theme,
Speaker 1: and I think something that a lot of maybe new
Speaker 1: adults are experiencing, or just anyone in any stage of
Speaker 1: their life, you know, having to let go is such
Speaker 1: a hard thing. Having to feel your emotions and go
Speaker 1: through them is so difficult. So I so many thoughts
Speaker 1: came into my mind when I got the theme. But
Speaker 1: I'm excited with how it turned out. I'm so happy
Speaker 1: with how it turned out.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 3: Well, without further ado, let's hear your second story on
Speaker 3: the theme of forgive and forget, Let's go.
Speaker 1: There are many moments in Australian television history that had
Speaker 1: the whole country unbaited breath. We had Kathy Freeman's golden
Speaker 1: run in the two thousand Olympics to the Tillies penalty
Speaker 1: shootout against France. But back in two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: all eyes were on Australian idol.
Speaker 4: Has My the Decision?
Speaker 1: The live Grand final amassed over three million viewers.
Speaker 5: The winner of Australie Not in Gossip s.
Speaker 1: The debut season alone, tore through our country's music industry,
Speaker 1: setting a new standard and method for the attainment of
Speaker 1: musical fame. If you were too young to remember, idle
Speaker 1: Mania had Australia in a chokehold. This wasn't your run
Speaker 1: of the mill reality TV show. This was why two
Speaker 1: K stardom. It was glitz and glamour and fame and fortune,
Speaker 1: and the contestants became instant superstars. The series itself had
Speaker 1: produced some of Australia's biggest names in the music industry
Speaker 1: Jessica Mowboy, Riki Lee, Matt Korby Milsey. But one contestant
Speaker 1: has lived in the back of my mind since I
Speaker 1: was just eight years old at the time. But I
Speaker 1: still remember that one feetful night in two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: hundreds and thousands of Ossie families gathered around their boxy
Speaker 1: TVs and tenas tuned to Channel ten, hearts pounding brows, sweating,
Speaker 1: palms clenched.
Speaker 5: However, Cosma rescently that you would like to say, I'd like.
Speaker 6: To thank all my supporters and the Australian public for
Speaker 6: believing in me. I've been extremely humbled by the support
Speaker 6: that you have shown me.
Speaker 1: Where were you the night Costumer Divito withdrew from Australian Idol.
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, I have a temporary condition that's affecting my voice.
Speaker 6: It's forced me to make the decision to leave the competition.
Speaker 1: It was the worst case scenario. Costumer Divito, the singer
Speaker 1: adored by everyone, was pulling out of the competition just
Speaker 1: as she was becoming an unstoppable force. Australian Idol is
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime opportunity, and all these years later,
Speaker 1: I still think about it and I think about Costomer.
Speaker 1: Where is she now?
Speaker 4: It's so hot, isn't it? Oh my god today? Are
Speaker 4: you okay? You look like you're sweating as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, my gorgeous, beautiful sheen because I've got to shut
Speaker 1: off the fan for the recording purposes. That's showbiz, baby,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, yes, that is the Costomer de Vito,
Speaker 1: the legend herself. It was her husky, deep voice that
Speaker 1: caught everyone's attention. During the very first season of Australian Idol.
Speaker 1: She was so popular that she was brought back as
Speaker 1: a wild card after an early knockout.
Speaker 7: When I came back as a world card and then
Speaker 7: I got into top twelve, it was like go go, Go,
Speaker 7: go go.
Speaker 1: However, a hefty run of Belty ballads soon caught up
Speaker 1: to the twenty six year old.
Speaker 6: This has been the most difficult decision of my life.
Speaker 6: But I'm not sure that I'm going to be able
Speaker 6: to give one and that my voice is gonna hold up.
Speaker 1: Costomer still remembers the point in the competition where her
Speaker 1: voice started to slip away.
Speaker 7: And then every week I was noticing, what's happening with
Speaker 7: my voice is getting really deep. It was there, but
Speaker 7: it was just deeper and deeper and deeper. It was
Speaker 7: vocal nodules.
Speaker 1: This is every singer's nightmare. Vocal nodules are benign folds
Speaker 1: and lesions that can sometimes grow on your vocal chords.
Speaker 1: It affects both your singing and speaking voice, drastically changing
Speaker 1: your natural vocal tone. Amidst her rise up the ranks,
Speaker 1: Cossomo was sent to a doctor who soon confirmed various
Speaker 1: small nodual growths caused by vocal overuse.
Speaker 7: You either rest it or you keep going and they
Speaker 7: get hard and then you have to have surgery.
Speaker 4: And as soon as you said surgery, I'm like Julie Andrews.
Speaker 1: Julie Andrews, the songbird slash actress from the famed Sound
Speaker 1: of Music, had surgery to remove vocal nodules in ninety nine.
Speaker 7: A routine procedure that I was told would not be
Speaker 7: threatening to my vocal cords.
Speaker 1: The procedure scarred her vocal cords and she was never
Speaker 1: able to sing the same again. So at this point,
Speaker 1: Costumer was at a crossroads. She was given an ultimatum,
Speaker 1: leave the competition and heal, or push on and risk
Speaker 1: injuring herself permanently.
Speaker 4: No, we're not doing that. It was hard. It was hard.
Speaker 4: I was crying when I was reading that speech.
Speaker 6: And again, a big, big kiss and hugs to everyone
Speaker 6: who's supported me. You have humbled me and I'm forever
Speaker 6: grateful for what you've done.
Speaker 1: For Costomer, running the risk of losing her voice forever
Speaker 1: was not an option. In the end, she decided to
Speaker 1: leave Australian Idol to enter a course of recovery that
Speaker 1: would get her back on track, but off the winning one.
Speaker 1: Costumer was a fan favorite and many thought she would win,
Speaker 1: but then her world fell apart, and her hopes and
Speaker 1: aspirations for her singing career soon followed.
Speaker 7: Because in that moment, you just feel like your whole
Speaker 7: world is crumbling. That's what it felt like in that moment.
Speaker 7: That was extremely difficult. The day after I withdrew, I
Speaker 7: remember I had to hide out in the hotel because
Speaker 7: all the media, it was such a hype after I left,
Speaker 7: and for me, I felt like I had lost an opportunity.
Speaker 1: The year after Idole was the hardest for Customer. The
Speaker 1: songshis that hit an all time low, and with her
Speaker 1: future up in the air, she struggled with her sense
Speaker 1: of self.
Speaker 7: It took a good year, I think before my head
Speaker 7: was on straight. But even then, a lot of reflection,
Speaker 7: a lot of mourning. I wasn't able to watch any
Speaker 7: singing competition for years, and then that whole year I
Speaker 7: had this paranoia that they were going to come back.
Speaker 7: So every time I sang as a psychological component that
Speaker 7: comes with it also because you feel, oh my god, it's.
Speaker 4: Going to come back again. I'm going to lose my
Speaker 4: voice again.
Speaker 1: The series finale had taken center stage and for a
Speaker 1: period of time, Costomer was nowhere to be found. While
Speaker 1: everyone wondered where she had gone, the show moved on
Speaker 1: without her, and she used this moment of quiet to
Speaker 1: find herself and her voice again.
Speaker 7: As soon as I got off the show, it was like, Okay,
Speaker 7: I'm in India, Now what's my next step? And that's
Speaker 7: when I went, you know what, I had to be
Speaker 7: part of the Idol tour. I had to start speech therapy,
Speaker 7: so I was doing that twice a week. I was
Speaker 7: going to a vocal coach who was familiar with singers
Speaker 7: who had nodules, and it was just rehabilitation. It was
Speaker 7: just hardcore rehabilitation, no singing, just working on getting it
Speaker 7: back to where it was.
Speaker 1: Costomer threw herself into recovery. While she couldn't win this series,
Speaker 1: she hit back stronger during the Top twelve tour. The
Speaker 1: two thousand and four concert was Costumer's return to the
Speaker 1: Australian Idol stage and in their opening group number, she
Speaker 1: was back as a crowd favorite. So after all this,
Speaker 1: where is the diva? Now? What about Costomer? Having recently
Speaker 1: dropped a duet with Nolsey, the indie artist has hot
Speaker 1: plans for her music ventures.
Speaker 7: It's a project that I've been working on since last year.
Speaker 7: I can't say too much at the moment, but I'll
Speaker 7: be touring towards the end of the year and it's
Speaker 7: very exciting and you need to come. I promise, I
Speaker 7: promise you'll love it. I promise, but I'm very excited
Speaker 7: about it.
Speaker 1: While there was a hard decision leaving Idol, there was
Speaker 1: no other choice. She took the route that in short,
Speaker 1: she would be able to keep singing for the rest
Speaker 1: of her life. This was simply a hurdle, one that
Speaker 1: she triumphantly conquered with a lot of time and care.
Speaker 7: I love my power ballads. The depressing power ballads are
Speaker 7: my thing. I think that's the Italian in me. When
Speaker 7: you sing an Italian and you sing an Italian ballad,
Speaker 7: it's very different to when you do it in English,
Speaker 7: just just so much more passionate, and you know the
Speaker 7: words and the lyrics.
Speaker 4: It's just different. I absolutely love it, love it.
Speaker 1: When I interviewed Costomer, I was starstruck. We share a
Speaker 1: love for singing, and I too dreamed of being a
Speaker 1: pop star. I mean, who didn't. I couldn't imagine being
Speaker 1: on the rise she was on and then having to
Speaker 1: let that go. When I spoke to Costomer, I was
Speaker 1: taught an important life lesson and it had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with music.
Speaker 7: The thing I guess that got me through it was
Speaker 7: just the It was the old Wise title of you
Speaker 7: know everything happens for a reason, because you know, there's
Speaker 7: a reason why you weren't meant to go all the way,
Speaker 7: There's a reason why this has happened.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have met my husband, I wouldn't met my daughter.
Speaker 7: You know, being an independent artist has been incredible.
Speaker 4: I've always done what I've wanted to do.
Speaker 1: Do you have a message for any fans who, even
Speaker 1: twenty years on, are still heartbroken over your Australian ad
Speaker 1: or verdicts? I myself included, I'm one of them.
Speaker 4: You're gonna make me very emotional just by saying that.
Speaker 4: I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank
Speaker 4: you from.
Speaker 7: The bottom of my heart, even twenty one years on,
Speaker 7: that you're all still standing by me. And every time
Speaker 7: I post something, you're on social media, You're there.
Speaker 4: You're supporting me.
Speaker 7: I'm here because of you, and I used to say
Speaker 7: that back then. Also, I'm here because you've voted for me,
Speaker 7: because you fiercely voted for me and stood by me,
Speaker 7: and you're still here today.
Speaker 4: I love to sing, but the support that I get
Speaker 4: from fans is just beautiful and it's truly truly a gift.
Speaker 4: It's truly a gift.
Speaker 7: And I thank you from the bottom of my heart
Speaker 7: still being here.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we put too much importance on winning.
Speaker 1: What I used to see as a heartbreaking withdrawal, I
Speaker 1: now see as the importance of letting go of the
Speaker 1: life and a path that's simply not meant for us. Sure,
Speaker 1: in life will miss some chances, but there will always
Speaker 1: be others.
Speaker 4: The human spirit's amazing.
Speaker 7: Only when you go through the lows can you really
Speaker 7: learn about yourself and learn about life and how to
Speaker 7: get through it.
Speaker 4: Otherwise you don't learn anything.
Speaker 7: You have to go through the lows, and it makes
Speaker 7: you a different person on the other side of it,
Speaker 7: and you wouldn't change that.
Speaker 4: When you get to the other side, it's great. It's
Speaker 4: just through the storm that's really really hard. I'm forty seven.
Speaker 4: I feel like I've let a lot of things go.
Speaker 7: When you reach forty it's just like, yeah, kay, I
Speaker 7: feel like I'm still learning about myself.
Speaker 4: But I am stronger.
Speaker 7: I am stronger, and I do know a lot more
Speaker 7: than what I did when I was twenty six years old.
Speaker 1: When the time comes and the opportunities you were meant
Speaker 1: for are come your way, there's only one thing we
Speaker 1: can do.
Speaker 8: We've got to rise, and that through the sky. We've
Speaker 8: got to rise over.
Speaker 4: Mountain.
Speaker 3: Hey, Mark, that was super fun and wild in its
Speaker 3: degree of nostalgia. Like I'm still a bit like I
Speaker 3: don't think I have thought about Cosmo Divido in a
Speaker 3: very long time, but I was equally Australian idol obsessed
Speaker 3: that first season.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was iconic, it was it was it. It
Speaker 1: changed the nation, it really did. It swept us away.
Speaker 3: I remember borrowing my mum's phone so I could text
Speaker 3: vote for twenty cents or whatever it costs me on
Speaker 3: a smith. But don't let me get get stuck there.
Speaker 3: I hadn't thought about her in a long time. Why
Speaker 3: this story? Why do you still think about her?
Speaker 1: So it's really interesting. This episode was meant to go
Speaker 1: in a really different direction. I had some other people
Speaker 1: in mind, but at its core, I really did want
Speaker 1: to talk about this proximity to fame, this proximity to fortune,
Speaker 1: to this like what many people consider to be the
Speaker 1: jackpot of success, being so close and then not reaching it,
Speaker 1: not hitting it, not winning, being second best. You know,
Speaker 1: being seen is not good enough. And I think, I
Speaker 1: think we really do just place so much weight into
Speaker 1: success and into what you know, conventional success looks like,
Speaker 1: when really it should be a personal thing. It really
Speaker 1: should be an individual thing. You know, we will win
Speaker 1: and thrive in our own ways, and it won't always
Speaker 1: be winning season one of the streaming modol as we
Speaker 1: came to find.
Speaker 2: Were nervous about speaking to a cosma.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a little starstruck. I was very starstark
Speaker 1: speaking to her. But then as we eased into it,
Speaker 1: it was like, no, we're not. This isn't an interview.
Speaker 1: This is two adults having a conversation about the realities
Speaker 1: of life and that things won't always go the way
Speaker 1: that we want it to go, and how that is
Speaker 1: completely fine and completely okay.
Speaker 3: You created a great redemption arc, you know, a sense
Speaker 3: of hope came through with Costomer's story. Did you have
Speaker 3: that episode arc planned out from the beginning? Did you
Speaker 3: know where you were going or what did it look
Speaker 3: like as it sort of shifted and remolded itself.
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be that she had won in
Speaker 1: her own way, that she had forgiven this incredibly massive,
Speaker 1: big deal that had happened to her, to forget it
Speaker 1: in her own way, not completely disregard it, but to
Speaker 1: just let go in her own way and then thrive.
Speaker 1: I wanted that to be the third aspect of that
Speaker 1: forgive and forget theme, because it just it doesn't require
Speaker 1: a trophy it doesn't. Winning doesn't require a certain thing.
Speaker 1: It could just be that you are content with your
Speaker 1: life and loving who you are where you are now,
Speaker 1: and understanding that there's more of a life to live
Speaker 1: and that there's more to learn. And so yeah, listening
Speaker 1: to customer vocalize that and speak that to existence was
Speaker 1: just was so nice to hear.
Speaker 4: Mark.
Speaker 3: Congratulations, another great episode, and I'm going to do an
Speaker 3: extra shout out for the ending there.
Speaker 2: Coming out on.
Speaker 3: Rise Up, Gosh, you made me feel very, very old.
Speaker 3: But then I was like bopping along. You know, I've
Speaker 3: got to listen to this for the first time in
Speaker 3: a studio. But I think if I'd been listening to this,
Speaker 3: you know, with my EarPods running down the street, I
Speaker 3: still would have broken out into a really big, fat
Speaker 3: grin hearing that song again.
Speaker 2: So thank you forgive me that.
Speaker 1: Of course you're not gone.
Speaker 3: That's two stories down for Mark, well done. Kate is
Speaker 3: back with her second in Just a Moment. This is
Speaker 3: Find and Tell. I'm Jamilla Risby, and this week's theme
Speaker 3: is Forgive and Forget. Our next storyteller opened her heart
Speaker 3: and revealed to the world the pain behind a really
Speaker 3: difficult breakup a stunning story, but she had stiff competition
Speaker 3: and didn't quite get the win. So let's hear what
Speaker 3: she's made for us this time.
Speaker 2: Hey, Kate, welcome back to Find and Tell.
Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me Jamilla.
Speaker 3: We're about to hear your second story, but before we
Speaker 3: get to that, I want to get to know a
Speaker 3: little bit more about you beyond the beautiful vulnerability you
Speaker 3: shared with us last week about your breakup.
Speaker 2: What do you do for a job?
Speaker 9: So I'm actually a visual artist, and so it's been
Speaker 9: really cool for me because I think like how you
Speaker 9: approach creating art with your hands and how you create art.
Speaker 5: For your ears is really different.
Speaker 2: How for those of us be on the obvious.
Speaker 9: Well, I think for me, a lot of it is
Speaker 9: about feeling, and when I'm painting, I really follow colors
Speaker 9: and motifs and things.
Speaker 5: That feel like home, that feel special.
Speaker 9: I think for a long time, when I was creating
Speaker 9: like physical art, I thought that I had to paint
Speaker 9: in a very particular way, And more recently I've realized
Speaker 9: that No, I just love sparkly, tacky things.
Speaker 5: So that's what I'm going to focus on.
Speaker 9: And so I guess with the creative process, Like for
Speaker 9: this podcast, it's super different in terms of how you
Speaker 9: piece together a story and how you make things make sense.
Speaker 9: But I'm also bringing that essence, like I'm just following
Speaker 9: the feelings that I want to explore and little sparkly
Speaker 9: things that bring me joy.
Speaker 3: To This week's theme is Forgive and Forget. What are
Speaker 3: we about to hear?
Speaker 9: Yeah, to be honest, this was a really really difficult
Speaker 9: podcast episode to create, I think because I have a
Speaker 9: really difficult relationship with forgiveness. Yeah, so I saw Forgive
Speaker 9: and Forget and I was like, really, do we have
Speaker 9: to forgive and forget? But I guess also when they
Speaker 9: gave us their themes, the intention was that we would
Speaker 9: create three separate stories, and so I decided to mess
Speaker 9: with the format a little bit. And so this one's
Speaker 9: also about that.
Speaker 3: Well, that is your right, my friend, and you get
Speaker 3: to throw some glitter at it if you want to.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear your second contribution to find
Speaker 3: and Tell on Forgive and Forget.
Speaker 10: I feel like Persian, you can cover this up. Persian
Speaker 10: taciness is coming in in a big way.
Speaker 5: Oh that's my aesthetic entirely.
Speaker 10: It's really just cool now.
Speaker 9: That's parasitosif she's one half of the band Vallas Alps,
Speaker 9: and I'd originally wanted to talk to her because her
Speaker 9: music had a big impact on me during a really
Speaker 9: difficult breakup last year, But somehow, maybe because we're both Persian,
Speaker 9: within minutes, I was instead pitching her own music video.
Speaker 9: So there's my suggestion for a future video clip where
Speaker 9: you just get thirty fake Versachi bathrobes and try and
Speaker 9: incorporate them.
Speaker 10: Yes, that is fantastic. Well, I'm actually working on a
Speaker 10: solo project where I'm using music to connect to my
Speaker 10: Iranian heritage, so it's indie pop kind of songwriting with
Speaker 10: Iranian instrumentation.
Speaker 9: When I started listening to Valas Alps, I had no
Speaker 9: idea that Parisa was Persian. But as I talked to her,
Speaker 9: I realized that we had this shared experience. Both of
Speaker 9: our families had actually fled Iran because of the nineteen
Speaker 9: seventy nine revolution.
Speaker 10: And its stories around the revolution and my family and
Speaker 10: life as a migrant. When I think about the music videos,
Speaker 10: I always think groups of people wearing something particular. So
Speaker 10: the fact that you just said that maybe is linked
Speaker 10: somehow you read it my mind.
Speaker 5: I'll bring the Versati roads. You read the music.
Speaker 9: I felt so linked to Parasite in the last year,
Speaker 9: even before I knew about our shared heritage and our
Speaker 9: love of fake Versati robes, I had thought that we
Speaker 9: had this shared experience of heartbreak because one of their songs,
Speaker 9: You and I, it really felt like it was written
Speaker 9: about my breakup.
Speaker 10: It's funny because we have never written, and almost intentionally,
Speaker 10: we've never tried to write a traditional breakup or love song.
Speaker 10: But we have this rule between us, which is, if
Speaker 10: we write a song and it can be interpreted as
Speaker 10: a breakup song, then we've won. Because love and heartbreak
Speaker 10: is so inherently human that if a song can invoke
Speaker 10: even a little bit of that feeling, then it kind
Speaker 10: of connects us all, which is a little bit sad
Speaker 10: and strange, but beautiful too.
Speaker 9: I guess that's Parasa basically ruining my internal narrative of
Speaker 9: her work. But as we talked more, it became clear that,
Speaker 9: whether on purpose or not, this album was about heartbreak,
Speaker 9: just not in the way that I was experiencing it.
Speaker 10: We wrote this whole album at a time where we
Speaker 10: were really struggling in our friendship, and we'd been friends
Speaker 10: for years, but we've been fighting a lot, specifically when
Speaker 10: we started to write the album, because it had been
Speaker 10: an aque of many years of not listening to each other,
Speaker 10: not shining light on each other's strengths in the creative process,
Speaker 10: not being true friends at different points, not forgiving each other,
Speaker 10: not letting go, and it kind of all built up
Speaker 10: into this point while we were working on the album
Speaker 10: where we kind of decided either to quit the band
Speaker 10: or do mediation.
Speaker 9: That friendship was between Parisa and the other half of
Speaker 9: valas Alps, David. I'm sorry they chose to do mediation.
Speaker 9: They went through weeks of it, wading through their problems
Speaker 9: and trying to rebuild their relationship.
Speaker 10: We built completely new processes, We learnt a lot about
Speaker 10: each other and continued on with writing the album with
Speaker 10: that newfound clarity. We ended up being able to finish
Speaker 10: the song You and I and realized that You and I,
Speaker 10: plus half of the other songs we were working on,
Speaker 10: had somehow been a reflection of our tumultuous relationship.
Speaker 9: The problem with me it's you.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 9: During the worst moments of my breakup, those lyrics really
Speaker 9: spoke to me and they helped me to process my reality,
Speaker 9: and now it made sense why. But it also made
Speaker 9: me curious about how artists, how musicians like Dallas Alps,
Speaker 9: they use their music to process their emotions.
Speaker 10: When you're creative, you're vulnerable and you're putting your heart
Speaker 10: out on the table. At least for us to be
Speaker 10: truly creative means to do that in some way, and
Speaker 10: you're showing each other half ideas, new ideas, and when
Speaker 10: the relationship wasn't strong, those ideas would be shut down.
Speaker 10: There'd be a lot of disappointment. And then when we
Speaker 10: worked on our process, the opposite happened, where we were
Speaker 10: able to realize how much much good came from creativity
Speaker 10: and creating together.
Speaker 9: I love hearing about two people who've been able to
Speaker 9: rebuild and repair broken friendship and turn things around.
Speaker 10: There's a song called turn It Around, and it's about
Speaker 10: forgiveness and about that moment where you realize you need
Speaker 10: to do better in a relationship, doesn't matter what the
Speaker 10: relationship is, friendship, parent, child relationship, love like a love relationship,
Speaker 10: and you're kind of looking for that person and hoping
Speaker 10: you're able to turn things around. And it's about forgiveness
Speaker 10: and seeking forgiveness, and we realized after mediation that a
Speaker 10: lot of that had actually been about us. Obviously, no
Speaker 10: relationship is ever going to be perfect, but I think
Speaker 10: what changed for us was that now we have tools
Speaker 10: to deal with the challenges we face, whereas before we
Speaker 10: were just kind of going through the challenges at.
Speaker 9: War with each other. To break Parison and David were
Speaker 9: able to forgive each other to heal together, and through
Speaker 9: that process creates some incredible music which I then listened
Speaker 9: to when I was going through my breakup. So of
Speaker 9: course I just had to ask Parisa about what tools
Speaker 9: she thought I could try and use to forgive my ex.
Speaker 10: Oh. Man, I think there's elements of seeing the other
Speaker 10: person in a completely new way that's really hard, and
Speaker 10: I feel like that almost literal shift in the mind,
Speaker 10: and it takes constant reminding of who that person could
Speaker 10: be in a positive way so that you can let go.
Speaker 10: Because I've realized, even with David, the hardest parts were
Speaker 10: showing him love in my brain when I needed to,
Speaker 10: even though it was really hard, so that I could
Speaker 10: let go of something he'd done or that I'd done.
Speaker 10: And I can imagine almost the opposite with the heart breakup.
Speaker 9: It's really frustrating. But honestly, I don't know if I
Speaker 9: can take Paris's advice. I don't know if I can
Speaker 9: let go of my breakup. I don't think I can
Speaker 9: find it within me to forgive. I thought it was
Speaker 9: because a broken romantic relationship is really different from a
Speaker 9: broken friendship. But actually, as we started talking about how
Speaker 9: she was exploring her Iranian heritage through her music, something
Speaker 9: else clicked.
Speaker 5: We do have a shared.
Speaker 9: Experience of heartbreak. It's just for a place and not
Speaker 9: for a person.
Speaker 10: I actually didn't really think about my Iranian heritage at
Speaker 10: all growing up until I got to my late twenties
Speaker 10: and I had this sudden hit in my heart. I
Speaker 10: don't know where it came from where. I just felt
Speaker 10: like there was something missing, something I needed to connect to.
Speaker 10: And I realized I'd never asked my family about their
Speaker 10: stories of leaving Iran, and I'd never asked specific stories
Speaker 10: around emotional things like heartbreak during the revolution or what
Speaker 10: it felt like to lose a sibling at the hands
Speaker 10: of the government. I'd never known those stories.
Speaker 5: Until she said those words.
Speaker 9: I'd never thought of my family's experience of leaving Iran
Speaker 9: as heartbreak, but it is, and it's framed how I've
Speaker 9: approached all forms of heartbreak. It's made me believe that
Speaker 9: I shouldn't forgive what's happened in Iran or what's happened
Speaker 9: in my breakup, and then I definitely shouldn't forget. But
Speaker 9: here was Pariser, who had a completely different relationship with forgiveness,
Speaker 9: whose family had a similar experience to mine of leaving Iran.
Speaker 9: I love the way that Pariser has used her music
Speaker 9: to process her heartbreak, both about David but also about Iran.
Speaker 10: And the songs are about snippets of these stories me
Speaker 10: trying to kind of convey those emotions. So it's been
Speaker 10: like the whole in my heart that I was looking
Speaker 10: to feel. Honestly, it sounds so cheesy, but it started
Speaker 10: to feel. And the longing that I have to know
Speaker 10: where I come from has slowly started to kind of ease,
Speaker 10: and I feel like a tiny bit more connected. And
Speaker 10: it's been such a beautiful process and emotional process.
Speaker 9: I think I'm finally ready to give in too, forgiveness,
Speaker 9: because I want so deeply for the whole in my
Speaker 9: heart to fill, So I'm ready to take Paris's advice,
Speaker 9: but first I think I need to start with me.
Speaker 9: She said that I have to make a literal shift
Speaker 9: in my mind and that it takes constant reminding. So
Speaker 9: I just want to say to the future version of
Speaker 9: myself that listens back to this, I hope that you're happy.
Speaker 5: And that you got that Vasati robe.
Speaker 9: I also hope that you've learned to forgive yourself, that
Speaker 9: you haven't cut yourself off from your capacity to love
Speaker 9: because you're afraid. And I hope that you remember they're
Speaker 9: getting through this. It honestly means you can get through
Speaker 9: absolutely anything, because that's the one thing I don't want
Speaker 9: to forget.
Speaker 3: Firstly, I love the reference to the Vasati robes. But
Speaker 3: one of the things that struck me listening to that, Kate,
Speaker 3: it's what a beautiful artistic sense you have of I
Speaker 3: would almost say symmetry between the two episodes we've heard
Speaker 3: so far, because in the previous episode where we got
Speaker 3: to hear your first piece of work, we got to
Speaker 3: hear all these voice notes about your breakup, so you
Speaker 3: all almost were listening to past you, and now here
Speaker 3: you are leaving messages for future you. There's some big,
Speaker 3: deliberate artistic swings, my friend. When you were making this,
Speaker 3: did you have that planned out from the beginning? How
Speaker 3: did it start to take shape this episode?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 9: So I think I got my three themes and they
Speaker 9: just slotted in so nicely with each other, and so yeah,
Speaker 9: I did have that that journey in mind, and it
Speaker 9: felt really special because for me, it's really it's about
Speaker 9: not only me trying to find forgiveness and find a
Speaker 9: way to go through that process, but it's also about
Speaker 9: creativity and it's also about art, and there's something so
Speaker 9: special about creating a podcast that is a creative process
Speaker 9: and then exploring some of the ideas that you're thinking
Speaker 9: about through that storytelling.
Speaker 5: So that felt very special for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes for podcasters, particularly new podcasters, music can
Speaker 3: be a bit of an afterthought. You know, you tell
Speaker 3: the story, you make the thing, and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I got to shove some music on it. Different case
Speaker 3: for this one, even if that was your approach, right,
Speaker 3: because you've got this bank of music to work with,
Speaker 3: how did you go or about making those decisions?
Speaker 9: Basically, in the interview, I asked her if she would
Speaker 9: feel comfortable with us using some of ouris Alps's music
Speaker 9: in the episode because for me, it's so deeply emotional
Speaker 9: and it's so deeply connected to how I felt at
Speaker 9: these particular moments, and so I wanted to create that
Speaker 9: for the audience too.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you change listening back to it now.
Speaker 9: I think I'm always a bit nervous talking about Iran,
Speaker 9: To be completely frank, I mean there's two parts to that.
Speaker 9: I think one is like, I'm biracial, so I'm half
Speaker 9: Australian and I'm half Irni, and so anytime I talk
Speaker 9: about that experience of being Persian, there is a small
Speaker 9: part of me that has like a little bit of
Speaker 9: imposter syndrome about like whether I should be taking up
Speaker 9: space talking about this experience that isn't mine but is mine.
Speaker 9: So there's that element. But also talking about this story
Speaker 9: does impact how safe I would feel going back to Iran.
Speaker 9: The political situation in Iran is very uncertain and can
Speaker 9: be quite dangerous if you speak up against the government.
Speaker 9: And so even now, when I was listening back, I
Speaker 9: was like, oh, gosh, what impact does this have for
Speaker 9: me in my future?
Speaker 10: That's a lot to carry.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it is. But I think also like if you
Speaker 9: don't talk about it. That's part of the problem.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Kate, Thanks for having Michama.
Speaker 3: So who told the best forgive and Forget story. I'm
Speaker 3: going to share my decision with the winner in just
Speaker 3: a moment. This is fine and tell, and the theme
Speaker 3: this week was forgive and forget. Mark's episode was a
Speaker 3: whole lot of fun, especially for someone who absolutely grew
Speaker 3: up living for Australian idol and was personally devastated when
Speaker 3: Cosuma had to leave. I think it was entertaining, and
Speaker 3: it was nostalgic, and we had a really strong tie
Speaker 3: to the theme. Mark's episode would have benefited from spending
Speaker 3: some more time at the start setting up the stakes.
Speaker 3: I think if you weren't an idle nerd back in
Speaker 3: the early noughties, you might have been wondering why it
Speaker 3: was such a big deal that Cosuma left, and I
Speaker 3: think he could have bridged that gap by telling us
Speaker 3: why he was so personally invested in her and spending
Speaker 3: a little bit more time audio time on helping us
Speaker 3: get invested too. Moving to Kate's episode, Kate's storytelling strength
Speaker 3: really shines through in all of her episodes. I loved
Speaker 3: the theming that she seems to be setting up for us,
Speaker 3: maybe because in this episode she left a message to
Speaker 3: a future version of herself, and last episode, if you remember,
Speaker 3: we heard from past Kate with all of the audio notes,
Speaker 3: speaking to her friend AJ about her breakup. Kate's abilities
Speaker 3: as a really natural storyteller are really evident in the
Speaker 3: way that she helped all of us as the listeners
Speaker 3: care about Parissa, toss If and Vallas Alps even if
Speaker 3: we didn't know who they were.
Speaker 2: That takes real skill.
Speaker 3: It's easy to get invested and focused on a band
Speaker 3: that you love or a singer that you love, but
Speaker 3: if you've never heard of someone, it's hard to care
Speaker 3: about them quickly, and Kate's helped us to achieve that.
Speaker 3: If I had any suggestions for Kate for future is
Speaker 3: to just make sure she focuses on a single theme.
Speaker 3: This week, it was very much a story of a breakup,
Speaker 3: but then when we got more of Kate's family life
Speaker 3: and her family history in Iran, I then kind of
Speaker 3: wanted to hear that story and it was hard to
Speaker 3: come back again to Parissa and the breakup. So she
Speaker 3: just needs to be a bit distinct which story she tells,
Speaker 3: But honestly, I would have listened to both of them.
Speaker 3: After hearing both stories, I have decided who the winner
Speaker 3: is this week. Kate, Congratulations, you are this week's winner.
Speaker 5: That's so exciting, Dalla.
Speaker 9: I feel like I should have brought us the Sadi
Speaker 9: bathrobes to wear in celebration.
Speaker 2: I mean, I might take the win back conditional win.
Speaker 3: So it turns out that making a decision every week, folks,
Speaker 3: is not getting any easier. But you're allowed to argue
Speaker 3: with me. You're allowed to make the case for who
Speaker 3: you think I should have chosen. Get in touch and
Speaker 3: follow along at find and Tell dot com dot AU.
Speaker 3: Don't miss our next episode. Just press follow in your
Speaker 3: podcast app as we draw closer to.
Speaker 2: Crowning our Find and Tell Champion.
Speaker 3: Find and Tell is a coproduction between iHeart Australia and
Speaker 3: the black Cast podcast network. Black Cast empowers First Nations
Speaker 3: people and people of color to reclaim their narratives, strengthen
Speaker 3: cultural identity, and contribute to a more inclusive Australia by
Speaker 3: showcasing exciting emerging talent from Australian communities.