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Speaker 1: Teachers are outraged over a new approach for suspending students

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Speaker 1: at government schools.

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Speaker 2: It's understood a.

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Speaker 1: New checklist needs to be completed by principles, with suspensions

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Speaker 1: only able to be issued after collecting evidence from students,

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Speaker 1: witnesses and staff, reporting any criminal activity to police, and

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Speaker 1: consultation with the Education Department. Joining us on the line

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Speaker 1: to shed a bit more like our light on these

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Speaker 1: concerns is the former chair of the mid min College.

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Speaker 2: Board, Beverly Ratahi. Good morning to your Beverly.

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Speaker 3: Morning, Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: Lovely to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: Now, tell us a little bit more about the concerns

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Speaker 1: that you're aware of with these new rules.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, keeping in mind it's the last week

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Speaker 3: of school again before the next trend. So I've been

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Speaker 3: inundated by teachers over the last couple of days. If

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Speaker 3: only now I've just found out and what their concerns

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Speaker 3: relate to is that public schools are going to be

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Speaker 3: less safe for them as a working environment and then

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Speaker 3: for students because the new guidelines make it very clear

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Speaker 3: that the intent is to minimize the number of days

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Speaker 3: a student is suspended during the course of a year,

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Speaker 3: but there's no focus on the victim. Tody shocking and

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Speaker 3: you know the victim. You've seen some of the assault

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Speaker 3: behaviors and virtually now the principles. If they are going

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Speaker 3: to consider a suspension over five consecutive days, which should

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Speaker 3: be automatic for any physical assault or it used to be,

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Speaker 3: or a student accumulates three or more periods of suspension

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Speaker 3: which could be three one day suspension for ten or

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Speaker 3: more days in the current school year, they then have

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Speaker 3: to additionally, from all the bureaucratic vapor paperwork they now

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Speaker 3: have to must do, they have to conference with their

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Speaker 3: senior director. So yes, absolutely, what the department is doing

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Speaker 3: is trying to influence a reduction in suspension by diverting

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Speaker 3: attention to principal decision making to take the heat off

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Speaker 3: the fact that this chief executive and deputy chief executives

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Speaker 3: in charge of schools have done nothing over the last

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Speaker 3: three or four years to implement other programs and facilities.

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Speaker 3: Where can go when they're suspended. I mean, we all

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Speaker 3: agree as not be sitting at home up to their

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Speaker 3: own devices for twenty days, well, you know, for assaulting

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Speaker 3: somebody when they're probably out, But that's the issue. The

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Speaker 3: suspension is not the issue the fact that the department

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Speaker 3: has a sleep at the wheel. Again, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how or twenty times I've spoken to you about this.

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Speaker 3: They have not implemented any program or other facilities to

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Speaker 3: support schools. In fact, all they've done is reduced the support.

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Speaker 3: How many times have I taken you about the reduction

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Speaker 3: in counselors in school based time.

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Speaker 1: Look, and the thing is, Beverly, is it's reaching a

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Speaker 1: point right where the kids can see it.

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Speaker 2: The kids know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And I mean the victims in a lot of these

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Speaker 1: cases and the other kids that are at school that

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Speaker 1: are there following the rules. They're trying their best to

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Speaker 1: do the right things. You know, they're going home to

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Speaker 1: their parents and they're going you know, you're not even

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Speaker 1: you don't even get in trouble now if you're get

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Speaker 1: in a fight, yep.

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Speaker 3: And what's actually worse, Well, this is another thing the

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Speaker 3: teachers have said to me. So obviously principals have never

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Speaker 3: used at tension as a willy nilly thing. So it

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Speaker 3: actually has to be that the behavior is harmful psychologically

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Speaker 3: or you know, so it's assault, its drugs, weapons, you know,

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Speaker 3: or property damage vandalism. But now with the addition all

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Speaker 3: measures that the principles have to do in collecting and

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Speaker 3: documenting the accounts from students, witnesses and whatnot. The teachers

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Speaker 3: have said the students who witness things aren't prepared to

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Speaker 3: document things. They're scared of these kids, so they think

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Speaker 3: they are going to be the next target.

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Speaker 2: Which I can absolutely understand.

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Speaker 1: And wouldn't you then be even more frightened about documenting

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Speaker 1: it if there seems like there's no bloody consequence to

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Speaker 1: the kid that's doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 3: And you know, if you actually look holistically, Katie, they've

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Speaker 3: bought in all this additional bureaucracy in the context of

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Speaker 3: principles are leaving the profession due to increasing unsustainable workloads

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Speaker 3: and administry. We've got a national teacher shortage, which means

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Speaker 3: more principals are having to be in classrooms teaching to

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Speaker 3: get a teacher in a classroom, and the department's response is, well,

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Speaker 3: let's add more paperwork and bureaucracy to these principles. Either

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Speaker 3: either they've appointed principles who are up to the job

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Speaker 3: and who should be in charge of the decision making

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Speaker 3: as previously or if they haven't, well, then they need

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Speaker 3: to address that. But it is not the solution because

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Speaker 3: I've actually been in an executive position in the public service,

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Speaker 3: and believe me, when these guidelines are put out, which

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Speaker 3: I'm actually not sure that the government would even be

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Speaker 3: aware of because they're guidelines. They're not a policy or

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Speaker 3: a right actual thing that would have to go so that,

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Speaker 3: you know, because I just can't believe this government would

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Speaker 3: want this.

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Speaker 1: But well, if they do, they're not reading the room,

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Speaker 1: Beverly like, if they want it, if they want this,

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Speaker 1: they're not reading the room, and they're not listening to

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Speaker 1: parents and to teachers and to everybody involved at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Like even yesterday, I'd seen a post go up on

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Speaker 1: social media from a very concerned parent after their child

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Speaker 1: had been well, I don't know whether the right word

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Speaker 1: is beat up at school, but definitely subjected to some

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Speaker 1: very very poor behavior. And the feeling that I got

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Speaker 1: from that parent based on that post was that they'd

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Speaker 1: felt that the school had done nothing. Now, after hearing

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Speaker 1: what you are telling me, with these guidelines, I can

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Speaker 1: understand why a school is in a situation where they're

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Speaker 1: doing pretty well, you know, not as much as what

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Speaker 1: the parent's expectation would be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And do you know, Katie, the other thing

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Speaker 3: is why I can't believe that the government might know

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Speaker 3: about this because the minutes of the police, he'd be

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Speaker 3: having connections. You know, after I listened to estimates this

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Speaker 3: week and they were talking about the number of calls

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Speaker 3: into the call center. Well, this new guideline, I mean,

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Speaker 3: if it wasn't so serious, it'd be funny. But now

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Speaker 3: all principles have to report all alleged alleged un lawful behavior. Right,

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Speaker 3: So that's going to be if you if you're all

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Speaker 3: the suspension data, that's going to be thousands of extra

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Speaker 3: reports because most of the behaviors that students are getting

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Speaker 3: suspended for are either criminal or unlawful. So there's going

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Speaker 3: to be thousands of more reports going into one, three, one,

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Speaker 3: triple four or triple zero. Well, that's not going to

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Speaker 3: be very good for them.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think this has happened?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you suspect this new policy is

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Speaker 1: aiming to achieve.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've said it many times on your show, is

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Speaker 3: that stats don't look good, right, because we live in

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Speaker 3: a stat world. Cadience and you know, once or twice

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Speaker 3: a year. I know the media gets on to oh,

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Speaker 3: look at these number of suspensions, right, So this will

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Speaker 3: absolutely deliver the intent to reduce the number of suspensions.

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Speaker 3: But what it will mean is that those students engaging

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Speaker 3: in violence behavior awful because we'll be spending more time

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Speaker 3: in the schools. And that's what teachers really want next

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Speaker 3: term for that parents to be listening to their kids,

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Speaker 3: monitoring the incidents in school and demanding that there's appropriate

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Speaker 3: consequences that reflect the community's concerns.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes they don't.

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Speaker 3: What's going to happen is the teachers have already said,

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Speaker 3: if my workplace gets any more unsafe than it already is,

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Speaker 3: noting we know that frontline staff are assaulted regularly in school,

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Speaker 3: there will be a move of those teachers to private schools,

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Speaker 3: and probably some of the good kids who want to learn,

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Speaker 3: who are at school to learn but are being disruptive.

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Speaker 1: And do you know what, like even now, I've just

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Speaker 1: got an email from a listener it says, Katie are

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Speaker 1: regarding government middle schools, Palmerston College is literally a war

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Speaker 1: zone every single day. My daughter has attended a total

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Speaker 1: of three weeks maybe since starting there. She's too scared

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Speaker 1: to go. She was dragged by the hair across the

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Speaker 1: school yard and threatened multiple times. She's attempted self harm.

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Speaker 1: The department was not helpful at all. Evidently, my options

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Speaker 1: are to move out of Darwin, or find five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars to send her to private school, or she could

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Speaker 1: possibly attend top end flexible learning with older kids. The

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Speaker 1: assistant principal contacted me three weeks ago and said that

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Speaker 1: we could come back to come back on Tuesday after

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Speaker 1: meeting about options, and she says she's still waiting for

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Speaker 1: that school. She's got multiple videos that she's found on

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Speaker 1: her daughter's iPad of fights and it's really really awful stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and look now that we can see these new guidelines,

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Speaker 3: what's the chief executive and the deputy in charge of

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Speaker 3: school needs to do is actually try and do something.

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Speaker 3: It is so maybe that means getting out of carpetland

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Speaker 3: and their harbord views, getting out into schools and asking

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Speaker 3: the staff what they need in resourcing and facilities, rather

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Speaker 3: than being a hindrance with this bureaucratic crap they're producing.

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Speaker 3: It's just ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Beverly, do you think that we could potentially lose teachers

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Speaker 1: as a result of this, and particularly Principles.

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Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, there is a national trend, Katie. You know,

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Speaker 3: Principles are leaving. The workload is just obscene and increasing,

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Speaker 3: and it's increasing because of bureaucracy like this. You know,

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Speaker 3: it just annoys me. The system wasn't broken. The problem

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Speaker 3: with the system was kids sitting at home engaging in

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Speaker 3: other unlawful or criminal behavior while they were suspended. So

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Speaker 3: why further reduce the consequences in school. Let's look at

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Speaker 3: the problems the solution to getting those kids involved in

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Speaker 3: other programs or attending other facilities, which could be a

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Speaker 3: combination of education and restorative practice and community service. Let's

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Speaker 3: look at where the problem is. That's the problem. The

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Speaker 3: problem isn't the stats, you know. And maybe if they

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Speaker 3: don't like the suspension word, we'll use it as diversion

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Speaker 3: and some of our diversion facilities and programs. But agree

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Speaker 3: trying to create this the teachers absolutely will, no doubt.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I know there's already a number considering it

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Speaker 3: not getting out the year.

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Speaker 1: Beverly, I really appreciate your having a chat with us

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Speaker 1: because what I find as well, when it comes to

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Speaker 1: this area, particularly education.

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Speaker 2: If you've got kids that are still at.

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Speaker 1: School, a lot of parents don't want to speak because

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Speaker 1: they don't want to put their children at a greater

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Speaker 1: risk of something going on. They also don't want their

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Speaker 1: kids to then be, you know, in any way targeted

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Speaker 1: while they're at school, or any way sort of viewed

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Speaker 1: in a negative in a negative context.

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Speaker 2: So quite often I feel like we don't really.

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Speaker 1: Hear about the issues within our education system, particularly in

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Speaker 1: this space.

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Speaker 2: So look, we'll try and stay on to it.

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Speaker 1: We might see whether we can get the Minister for

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Speaker 1: Education on the show next week and get some kind

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Speaker 1: of response about this.

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Speaker 3: The other thing that would be interesting, I cannot imagine,

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Speaker 3: as I said, I've been inundated from teachers. I cannot

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Speaker 3: imagine any principle being infused about this new process. But

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Speaker 3: they are represented by the NT Principles Association. If there

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Speaker 3: was any consultation, if there was consultation with the Principal's Association,

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Speaker 3: well what's the Principal's association view and did they consult

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Speaker 3: with the principles in school?

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Speaker 2: Very very good point. We'll get onto it. Beverly.

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Speaker 1: Always appreciate your time. Thank you so much much for

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Speaker 1: making us aware.

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Speaker 3: Thank you Katie for your interest in this, because you

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Speaker 3: know public education is on its knees already. We don't

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Speaker 3: need any further bureaucracy that you signed impact on teaching,

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Speaker 3: school staff and principal.

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Speaker 1: And fundamentally for me, Beverly, every child deserves to go

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Speaker 1: to school and feel safe when they're there is what matters.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. It should not matter whether where your

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Speaker 1: parents come from. You know, whether you can go to

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Speaker 1: a private school or what school you go to. You

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Speaker 1: should be able to be safe when.

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Speaker 2: You're at school.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you.

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Speaker 1: As always, I always appreciate it. Thanks Beverly, Thank you Katie.

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Speaker 2: Bye now