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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul mchughue. Good morning to you, Paul,

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Speaker 1: Good morning Katie. Paul. A terrible incident there on our

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Speaker 1: roads overnight and really, you know, another example of the

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Speaker 1: various incidents that our police attend and you know, front

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Speaker 1: and center each and every day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really tragic circumstances and you know, sadly every day,

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Speaker 2: I mean police officers go to work, they don't know

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Speaker 2: what potentially they're going to walk into that day, and

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Speaker 2: a very sad events taken place there and of course

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Speaker 2: it was our police along with other frontline workers that

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Speaker 2: are out there twenty four to seven dealing with that

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Speaker 2: very sad incident and the aftermath of that, and of

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Speaker 2: course that takes its toll over many many years. But

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Speaker 2: you know, it's the Blue Shirts out there again and

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Speaker 2: they're keeping us safe and we're very proud of.

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Speaker 1: Them, absolutely, Paul. We do know that there was some

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Speaker 1: revelations yesterday or the day before I should say an estimates,

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Speaker 1: no sorry, yesterday that the government and has got plans

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Speaker 1: to now implement some tougher sentences for those who assault

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Speaker 1: frontline workers. Now spinning on emergency workers could attract tougher

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Speaker 1: penalties under these new laws being drafted by the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government. It is something which you and I have

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Speaker 1: spoken about on numerous occasions. I know that the opposition

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Speaker 1: had proposed some legislation a few weeks back in this space, Paul,

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Speaker 1: there does seem to be a high volume of assaults

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Speaker 1: on our police in recent months. Firstly, how are things

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Speaker 1: going when you talk about, you know, the assaults that

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Speaker 1: we've seen on our frontline workers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they look that continues almost daily, Cadie to be

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Speaker 2: some pretty vile, disgusting attacks on our officers out there.

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Speaker 2: And you know, spitting, of course is one of those

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Speaker 2: horrible acts that can have lifelong effects for members if

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Speaker 2: they pick up a terrible communicable disease. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we have long advocated and you know that for tougher

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Speaker 2: penalties on this very issue, and you know we're very supportive.

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Speaker 2: Obviously the c ORP previously put up some proposals. We

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Speaker 2: know that Labor have been focusing on some tougher penalties

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Speaker 2: as well. We haven't seen the detail and what they're

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Speaker 2: proposing at this stage, but you know, any increase in

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Speaker 2: penalties and a tougher message to those in the community

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Speaker 2: you think it's okay to or sold. Our offices will

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Speaker 2: be very supportive of there's no doubt so.

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Speaker 1: Has the association been consulted with at this point on

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Speaker 1: this new legislation that was flagged yesterday by Chancey Paig.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. I mean it's very disappointing, I

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Speaker 2: guess when you hear these announcements. Very supportive of the announcements.

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Speaker 2: But of course we were part of a working group

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Speaker 2: which has only ever met once, you know, since September

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Speaker 2: of last year around this very issue from government, and

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Speaker 2: so we have no idea really what they're proposing of

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Speaker 2: this stage. They're saying tougher penalties, but until we really

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Speaker 2: see the detail, we can't comment too much about what

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Speaker 2: that looks like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, ideally, what do you want to see.

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Speaker 2: Obviously the community want to see a message. We want

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Speaker 2: to be a message delivered on behalf of our members

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Speaker 2: that you know, if you're going to sold a police

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Speaker 2: officer and no matter what the circumstances, and you think

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Speaker 2: it's okay, Remember some of these assaults are horrific. Katie

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Speaker 2: as Katie not just spitting. We're talking about you know,

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Speaker 2: some serious harm incidents against their officers. They've been attacked

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Speaker 2: with edge weapons before they get punch, They've had hair

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Speaker 2: ripped out, they've had broken ribs. You know, these are

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Speaker 2: very serious assaults that have lifelong impacts, and the message

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Speaker 2: has to be quite clear that if you do that,

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Speaker 2: you're going to spend some time in jail and you

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Speaker 2: can have a good think about your consequences around that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, like you said, some of what we

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Speaker 1: have seen and certainly reported in recent months has been

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Speaker 1: pretty horrific, and I think if there are different things

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Speaker 1: that can be done to try to deter people from

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Speaker 1: assaulting our frontline workers, well hopefully it does have an

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Speaker 1: impact in terms of that being reduced, those numbers being reduced.

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Speaker 1: You know, I guess time will tell Paul, the devil

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Speaker 1: will be in the detail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look at the devil will be in the d

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Speaker 2: But obviously, you know, there's obviously some messages at times

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Speaker 2: people say, well, you know, just putting people in jail

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Speaker 2: is and going to stop assaults on police. But we

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Speaker 2: do know there are repeat offenders out there. We know

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Speaker 2: there are quite a few times our officers have been

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Speaker 2: assaulted by people who've been released on bail after previously

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Speaker 2: assaulting police. So we know if we can at least

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Speaker 2: interject somewhere and reduce just one assault, that's one less

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Speaker 2: we have to deal with and one less impact on

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Speaker 2: an officer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Paul. Earlier in the week, I know that the

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Speaker 1: opposition did attempt to ask questions in the estimates process

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Speaker 1: about branches of the association wanting to see a vote

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Speaker 1: of no confidence take place when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: Police commissioner. The Minister didn't answer the questions on this.

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Speaker 1: The Police Commissioner did hit back at critics, saying that

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Speaker 1: some of the commentary has been nothing short of disgusting. Paul,

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Speaker 1: can we clear this situation up a little bit when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the branches, How many of them do

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Speaker 1: want this vote to happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Obviously there is a lot of media common tree

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Speaker 2: and a lot of it is quite inaccurate. But we've

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Speaker 2: had sort of nine of our twelve branches thus far

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Speaker 2: meet and discuss this issue. Now, this is obviously driven

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Speaker 2: from the membership. They're run by elected officials these branches,

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Speaker 2: and our responsibility as the NTPA executive is to take

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Speaker 2: those minutes on board when we receive them. Of course,

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Speaker 2: we have to wait for them to come to us,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, we make a decision from there.

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Speaker 2: But quite clearly, you know, nine of the twelve have

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Speaker 2: asked for this to take place, and you know I've

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Speaker 2: been quite upfront with the Commissioner about this, and we're

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Speaker 2: directed by those regions. And ultimately, this is about a survey.

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Speaker 2: It's not about necessarily a vote of no confidence. It's

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Speaker 2: about undertaking a survey to see how the members are feeling.

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Speaker 2: And no doubt that will take place.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not actually so it's not an actual

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Speaker 1: vote of no confidence in the commissioner. It would be

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Speaker 1: a survey where presumably they would be asked if they

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Speaker 1: still have confidence in the commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, and no doubt that would be one of

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Speaker 2: the questions. But I guess more importantly, almost from our perspective,

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Speaker 2: and we could sit here and debate all day about,

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Speaker 2: you know, whether we have confidence in the commissioner or not.

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Speaker 2: It won't affect the way I manage relationships with the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner and the senior police executive. But what I'm almost

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Speaker 2: more importantly worried about is what are the reasons for

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Speaker 2: this what are the reasons that so many members are

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Speaker 2: coming to us at regional meetings. I've been doing this

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Speaker 2: for ten years now with the Association and this is

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Speaker 2: by far one of the strongest pushes from the rank

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Speaker 2: and file in terms of the feelings towards the senior

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Speaker 2: executive and obviously the commissioner. But what are some of

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Speaker 2: those reasons? And that's something we will be diving into.

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Speaker 2: And you know, just to simply say we don't have

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Speaker 2: the commissioner that really that's all well and good. We

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Speaker 2: could say that today and really it doesn't mean much.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately what we want to know is why is

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Speaker 2: it the attrition rate? Is it the role for matter?

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Speaker 2: Is it discipline? Is it resources? Is it they're feeling

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Speaker 2: a lack of support? I mean, there's a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of reasons, you know, why why people might be feeling

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Speaker 2: this way, and we certainly want to know.

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, what is the process going to be in

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Speaker 1: this space? You know, if you've got nine of the twelve,

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Speaker 1: you know, asking for this survey to take place and

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Speaker 1: you know, speaking quite openly about this, passing that information

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Speaker 1: on to the association, what is the process then in

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Speaker 1: terms of this survey.

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Speaker 2: It's very simple really. I mean, ultimately, you know, we

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Speaker 2: have a responsibility to allow all our regions to meet.

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Speaker 2: Whether it comes up at the meetings or not is

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Speaker 2: totally up to them. And then ultimately, once we've received

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Speaker 2: all that information, it'll be a very short, sharp process

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Speaker 2: in terms of a survey. And then when we get

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Speaker 2: the survey results back, we'll provide that information of course

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Speaker 2: to the Commissioner, the Minister and of course importantly the

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Speaker 2: membership who have been asking for it. But as I said,

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Speaker 2: we will also want to know what the reasons are

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Speaker 2: behind simply saying we don't have confidence in the Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: That's well and good, and I understand people are frustrated that.

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Speaker 2: The message we've been delivering to the members is you

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Speaker 2: need to tell us why, You need to tell us

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Speaker 2: what are the key reasons for that, and we need

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Speaker 2: to use it as a positive to make some change

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Speaker 2: because clearly they're upset at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Will yeah, well, so when is that going to happen?

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Speaker 2: I can't give you a timeframe on that. It'll it'll

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Speaker 2: be sooner rather than later. I mean annual conferences in

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Speaker 2: August of this year. And you know there's every chance

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Speaker 2: we'll we'll take we'll take that to the conference, or

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Speaker 2: you know, if we receive all the other minutes from

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Speaker 2: from the meetings prior to, then we'll undertake that prior

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Speaker 2: to the prior to the annual conference.

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Speaker 1: All right, So either August this year or it could

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Speaker 1: potentially happen prior prior to that. Paul, I know that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know that there have been some within

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Speaker 1: the force at the moment who have been critical of

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Speaker 1: you that something hasn't happened sooner is the fact here

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Speaker 1: though that you know that realistically you do need to

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Speaker 1: actually listen to those branches before before you're able to

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Speaker 1: do anything.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, you know, I know people have been critical,

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Speaker 2: but we have responsibility to the membership and the association

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Speaker 2: to make sure everyone's had an opportunity to have their say.

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Speaker 2: You know, we won't steer from that process. It's the

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Speaker 2: way we've always done the business. It doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: people on social media and those sorts of things that

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Speaker 2: publicly criticize us, saw the police executive or whoever. We

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Speaker 2: will continue the process as we're doing it. We're responsible

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Speaker 2: about it, and as I said, this is about really

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Speaker 2: understanding the reasons behind it, and making sure that both

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Speaker 2: the government and the Commissioner, who have been quite upfront

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Speaker 2: with about this, really understand the reasons.

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Speaker 1: Why are you worried that we've got a police force

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Speaker 1: that is divided in some ways.

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Speaker 2: Look quite potentially, I mean, obviously, as I said, we've

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Speaker 2: had large amounts of people turn up to our meetings.

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Speaker 2: There's equally been quite a few members offer support for

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Speaker 2: the commission and a lot of the work that's been

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Speaker 2: implemented since he's come in, such as additional resourcing in

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Speaker 2: remote stations, bringing back the duty soupers, all those sorts

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Speaker 2: of things. You know. Equally, there's been some comments around

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Speaker 2: the positives. So and obviously in we're now looking at

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Speaker 2: trying to improve our support and well being. We want

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Speaker 2: to work with the Commissioner and the Senior Executive on that.

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Speaker 2: It's very very important to us. So, yes, there is

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Speaker 2: obviously the risk there's division out there. If we don't

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Speaker 2: understand why, we'll never be able to fix it. And

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Speaker 2: that's one of the key drivers behind these motions, no doubt, Paul.

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Speaker 1: On that support and well being. It was revealed as

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Speaker 1: well throughout the estimates process that that report is now complete.

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Speaker 1: It is understood that there's going to be some changes

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Speaker 1: made in this space pretty swiftly and fairly soon, is

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Speaker 1: my understanding. You know, how important is it that we

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Speaker 1: get this right.

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Speaker 2: It's extremely important. I mean, it was the NTPA that

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Speaker 2: lobbied hard for government to commit to this review. It

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Speaker 2: was undertaken as a promise to us at one of

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Speaker 2: our annual conferences. It took place late last year. Quite simply,

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Speaker 2: we recognize for many, many years that the support and

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Speaker 2: well being branch of the police force is well and

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Speaker 2: truly underfunded and understaffed. You know, we've known that for

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Speaker 2: a long time. It shouldn't have taken us to force

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Speaker 2: a review to take place for this to come up.

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Speaker 2: Now it has, the conversation's begun. There can be no

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Speaker 2: going back from this. The government cannot commit to a

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Speaker 2: survey and now not follow through with sufficient funding for

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Speaker 2: the commissioner to put in place additional resources in this

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Speaker 2: very important area, because this is sadly, very sadly a

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Speaker 2: growing business in certain terms of the amount of support

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Speaker 2: and well being we need to offer police and the

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Speaker 2: government cannot walk away from this. Now we've got the

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Speaker 2: review and some results. They need to put their hand

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Speaker 2: in their pocket and give some funding to the Commissioner

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Speaker 2: to make sure we've got sufficient resource.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon it is going to be a situation

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Speaker 1: where there is going to need to be additional funding

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Speaker 1: provided here, Paul, no doubt.

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Speaker 2: I mean the one point six million or thereabouts that's

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Speaker 2: been provided now is clearly insufficient. We do not have

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Speaker 2: enough full time sits. Internally, we don't have enough investment

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Speaker 2: into our peer support program. We really struggle to get

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Speaker 2: full time professionals down in Alice Springs, a very important

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Speaker 2: part of the territory, the Central Australia and southern part,

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Speaker 2: and we know there's been obviously some tragedies down there

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Speaker 2: of recent times and we really need to make sure

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Speaker 2: we've got sufficient resources in place, and right now we

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Speaker 2: don't and that can only come with reinvesting some additional

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Speaker 2: money from government. It's as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: Well, Police Association President Paul mckew, we are going to

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Speaker 1: have to leave it there. We've run out of time.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning though.

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Speaker 2: No thanks Katie, thank you