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Speaker 1: The ALP has claimed Fanny Bay in that by election.

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Speaker 1: On the weekend, the Chief Minister declaring that the constituents

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Speaker 1: of Fanny Bay had been heard and that they want

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Speaker 1: a government that backs them and only a Labor government

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Speaker 1: can do that. But not many people are buying the

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Speaker 1: spin on first preferences. We know that the Country Liberal

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Speaker 1: Party has been Hosking was ahead with forty two percent

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Speaker 1: of the primary vote. Labour's tally was thirty three percent

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Speaker 1: of first preferences, nineteen percent going to the Greens. So

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Speaker 1: when you actually look at those first preference numbers, so

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Speaker 1: essentially the ALP one eighty nine votes, the Greens six

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty, the COLP oney three hundred and ninety four.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me in the studio to talk more about

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Speaker 1: the by election in her usual spot, the opposition leader

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Speaker 1: Leah Finocchiaro. Good morning to you, Lea.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie in to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, you and I spoke last week on the

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Speaker 1: show about the enormity of the COLP actually winning the

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Speaker 1: by election. Were you surprised that the COLP actually won

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Speaker 1: the primary?

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Speaker 3: Vosh, Look, it was always going to be a huge task.

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Speaker 3: We needed a ten percent swing, so there was no

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Speaker 3: question we were the underdog, but gosh, Ben Hoskin did

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Speaker 3: the most amazing job. We got a seven point six

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Speaker 3: eight percent swing towards us, which is an absolute clear

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Speaker 3: pathway to government in twenty twenty four. So you know,

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Speaker 3: the people of Fanny Bay spoke loud and clear. You know,

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Speaker 3: Ben clearly won by hundreds of votes on the primary

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Speaker 3: vote count. You know that last lot of Green's preferences

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Speaker 3: at the parat boost just knocked us out of the race.

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Speaker 3: Ben was leading all night, and it shows that our

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Speaker 3: message was strong. I mean, people want action on crime,

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Speaker 3: and they want action on cost of living and for

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Speaker 3: Labor to interpret there's any other way than a strong

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Speaker 3: push against them on those issues.

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Speaker 2: They're crazy, Katie.

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Speaker 3: They're primary vote collapsed by sixteen percent.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think that the results is?

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Speaker 3: The result says people are really angry with the government

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Speaker 3: and they want change. And that was a very strong

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Speaker 3: message coming out on the doors in the parks when

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Speaker 3: we were doing their activities and all sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: That was the absolute message.

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Speaker 3: And if it wasn't for those Green votes all flowing

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Speaker 3: to Labor, you know, Brent would not be the local

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Speaker 3: member Ben would be, So, what do.

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Speaker 1: You make of those Green votes? Because obviously, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're saying this morning that you think that the vote

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Speaker 1: swung towards you because of those crime issues and other

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Speaker 1: things that we talk about very regularly on this show.

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Speaker 1: But then what do you think that the swing towards

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Speaker 1: the Green votes is, because obviously their message is very

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Speaker 1: different to yours.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and they did have a really good swing

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Speaker 3: as well. And so look, I think the environment is

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Speaker 3: a critically important issue to a lot of people, and

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Speaker 3: I think unfortunately for the CLP, I think we have

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Speaker 3: the wrong stigma around that our green's policies and our

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Speaker 3: environmental policies are very very good. And that's something that

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Speaker 3: I've taken away is making sure people understand that. So

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Speaker 3: if they do want to put Greens first, there's no

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Speaker 3: reason why they shouldn't be putting CLP second. But also

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, people probably voted Greens as well,

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Speaker 3: some people to protest on both the major parties. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're seeing that right around the country. But ultimately, the

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Speaker 3: vast maturity of people voted CLP. The swing we received

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Speaker 3: was so heartening. It just is encouraging us to keep going,

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Speaker 3: keep fighting for people who feel forgotten, and really marching

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Speaker 3: towards twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Now. Leah the Labor Party says that the low voter

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Speaker 1: turnout could have been because people were happy with the

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Speaker 1: current state of affairs. Do you think that that's the

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Speaker 1: reason why a third of the electorate didn't turn up

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Speaker 1: to vote.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: I think that's very optimistic, and I mean, they're good

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Speaker 3: at spin.

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Speaker 2: I'll give them one thing.

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Speaker 3: If this government's not good at many things, but that

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Speaker 3: spin machine is bang on every time, Katie, So No,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's why. I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people were really disenfranchised by the whole process. They were

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Speaker 3: annoyed that they had to go to a by election

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Speaker 3: because Michael Gunner just decided he didn't want to do

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Speaker 3: it anymore and hadn't really given any good reasons why

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Speaker 3: he couldn't see out the term. And ultimately, I think that,

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Speaker 3: you know, equally, on our side, perhaps we hadn't motivated

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Speaker 3: those people enough to vote that perhaps they just felt

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Speaker 3: annoyed by the whole thing, annoyed we government and just

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Speaker 3: decided I'm not being part of this.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's the fact that the two major

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Speaker 1: parties ran people who don't actually live in the electorate

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Speaker 1: had any contributing factor.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure it did.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, there's no real way to analyze it,

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Speaker 3: but I'm sure for some people that might have been

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Speaker 3: their reason. For others, they just were annoyed with the

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Speaker 3: whole process. So you know, there's a number of ways

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Speaker 3: to do it. Of course, we're seeing more and more

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Speaker 3: people disengage with the system as well, and I think

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Speaker 3: integrity and government has meant a lot of people just

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Speaker 3: think it's a load of garbage, you know, and that's

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Speaker 3: really really sad. And that's why things like you know,

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Speaker 3: us holding government to account on cutting funding to the

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Speaker 3: IKAC and the issues we've seen around the twelve million

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Speaker 3: dollar grandstand for example. You know, they are all things

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Speaker 3: that turn people away and it becomes something that then

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Speaker 3: you know, all politicians get lumped in this one basket.

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Speaker 3: But transparency, scrutiny, and accountability are the foundations of our

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Speaker 3: democracy and it's something that we are really trying to protect.

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Speaker 3: And I think some people just probably felt like, you know,

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Speaker 3: what is the point, And that's sad.

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Speaker 2: It's something we've got a work.

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Speaker 1: It is sad, and it is something that needs to

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Speaker 1: be worked on. I think that we all need to

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Speaker 1: get out there and exercise our democratic right. I know

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Speaker 1: that sometimes people are frustrated they don't know who to

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Speaker 1: vote for. I had a lot of people say that

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Speaker 1: to me. You know, they were saying, Katie, I actually

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Speaker 1: don't know who to vote for because I want somebody

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Speaker 1: who lives in the electorate. So I know that it

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Speaker 1: is something that was a contributing factor. But Lea, the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, on Saturday night said what this is is

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Speaker 1: the fourth straight election loss for Leofinocchiaro. On the COLP,

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Speaker 1: she questioned, if you can retain your leadership, can you?

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Speaker 3: Of course, Katie, again, this viin machine in total tilt

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Speaker 3: there for LAB. I mean, what they're trying to do

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Speaker 3: is deflect from what is a catastrophic situation for them

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Speaker 3: where a sixteen percent swing against them and a seven

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Speaker 3: point sixty eight to us, they'll be reduced to something

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Speaker 3: like six seats in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: And just to clear this idea.

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Speaker 3: Of the four losses up Johnston by election, I'd been

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Speaker 3: in the top job for two weeks. The next election

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Speaker 3: they're talking about is twenty twenty where I took the

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Speaker 3: CLP for from one seat to eight and nearly one

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Speaker 3: government by five hundred votes. So I don't think anyone

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Speaker 3: you know, technically we lost, but that was an enormous triumph.

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Speaker 3: Even in daily we increased our percentage vote in the

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Speaker 3: rural area, and of course just in this funny Bay

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Speaker 3: one we increased our margin by seven point six eight percent,

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Speaker 3: which gives us a pass to government.

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Speaker 2: So clear up for.

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Speaker 1: Us once and for all. I mean, is there any

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Speaker 1: angst whatsoever amongst the CLP with you as the leader

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Speaker 1: at this point?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not, Katie. We are all so encouraged by the result.

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Speaker 3: Of course, we would have loved to have been in

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Speaker 3: the team.

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Speaker 2: It just would have been.

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Speaker 3: He's just such an incredible person and he is such

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Speaker 3: a fighter.

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Speaker 2: But he's not going anywhere. He's going to be there

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Speaker 2: nipping at Brin's Hill.

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Speaker 1: So you're going, is he going to move into the

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Speaker 1: electroc Are you going to run him? Yeah? Absolutely, I'm sure.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that's the case. I mean, the party does

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Speaker 3: the pre selection, but Ben's moving. He was out there yesterday.

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Speaker 3: He turned his campaign posters around and gotten a big

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Speaker 3: text and wrote thank you on them and were standing

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Speaker 3: on the side of the road waving and saying thank you,

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Speaker 3: even though he'd lost. I mean, where was the labor

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Speaker 3: member thanking the voters, you know?

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Speaker 2: Nowhere?

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Speaker 1: So well, I think he was out actually doing some

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Speaker 1: stuff as well, just for you know, I.

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Speaker 2: Do think he was out thank you, but.

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Speaker 1: Well I think he was out pruning a senior Territory

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Speaker 1: instree say he was definitely out there also, just good

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Speaker 1: sake of transparency, Leah. One thing I do want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about. Obviously, the by election incredibly fascinating.

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Speaker 1: If you're a political nerd like me, I think you

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Speaker 1: trawling over it, no doubt about that. But I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about the situation with our Northern Territory Police. Now.

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Speaker 1: You and I have spoken about this on numerous occasions.

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Speaker 1: Last week you said that there needs to be a

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Speaker 1: thirty day inquiry into the Northern Territory Police Force, conducted

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Speaker 1: by a form of judge. Now I want to take

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Speaker 1: you through what Paul Mchughe, the president of the Police Association,

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Speaker 1: had to say on the show yesterday. Paul, specifically, from you,

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Speaker 1: what do you what do the members think needs to change? Here?

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Speaker 4: First and foremost, I need a government that's willing to

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Speaker 4: back him with a decent amount of investment into the

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Speaker 4: actual reasons while people are leaving. So there needs to

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Speaker 4: be that review first and foremost. Secondly, there needs to

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Speaker 4: be an admission that things aren't right. There needs to

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Speaker 4: be an actual admission that things are not right and

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Speaker 4: we want to look very very closely at why. And

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Speaker 4: then thirdly, of course we've got a very competitive market.

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Speaker 4: You're not going to offer a decent pay deal to

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Speaker 4: stay here in the Northern Territor. You're not going to

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Speaker 4: offer the actual incentive to make sure you want to

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Speaker 4: come to work every day, and that is support, and

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Speaker 4: that is numbers which all reflect on morale and safety.

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Speaker 4: Then we're in a world of pay. But those are

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Speaker 4: they're the things that need to change LEA.

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Speaker 1: That's obviously. Police Association President Paul Mitchew on the show yesterday,

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Speaker 1: following on from the annual conference on Thursday and Friday

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Speaker 1: last week. Now you called for this thirty day inquiry.

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Speaker 1: Do you stand by that call? What do you think

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Speaker 1: needs to happen?

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 3: So it sounds to me like the Police Association and

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Speaker 3: the CLP are singing of the same song sheet. There

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Speaker 3: We've tried twice in parliament to have a review into

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Speaker 3: why police are leaving the force in droves, you know,

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Speaker 3: last year and this year, So that review Paul's talking about,

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Speaker 3: we've tried to do it twice and we will be

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Speaker 3: doing it again next week in parliament.

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Speaker 2: We've said there needs.

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Speaker 1: To be next week Parliament sits and you are going

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Speaker 1: to be trying again again to the time absolutely a

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Speaker 1: parliamentary review as well.

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Speaker 3: A parliamentary committee, because obviously this government has not established

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Speaker 3: an inquiry. We would have preferred it to be a

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Speaker 3: full inquiry where the Police Executive and Commission have to

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Speaker 3: come forward and show cause, explain what they see the

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Speaker 3: issue is and what their plan to fix it is.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that the government can knock this back

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Speaker 1: again next week. I don't think that they're in a

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Speaker 1: situation now after what's happened with these survey results that

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Speaker 1: they can actually knock this back just to take our

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Speaker 1: listeners through this parliamentary review or inquiry. What exactly would

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Speaker 1: it look into?

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Speaker 3: Yep, so it would look into So how it would

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Speaker 3: be made up is it's got government members, opposition members

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Speaker 3: and independent members. It's a full inquiry. So it's basically

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Speaker 3: like a mini court process. I suppose you could say

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Speaker 3: people would be summons to come and appear. They have

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Speaker 3: to tell the truth, the whole truth, all of that

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Speaker 3: stuff and provide submissions. And so what it would do

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Speaker 3: is it would look at police attrition, police morale, police resourcing,

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Speaker 3: police pay and conditions, all of those types of issues,

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Speaker 3: because we have what government has done, not ask because

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Speaker 3: we recognize it, but what government has done is just

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Speaker 3: ignored why we've got an eleven percent attrition rate and

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Speaker 3: it's not sustainable. We can't pump out recruits faster than

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Speaker 3: they're leaving, so we've tried to do that twice already.

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Speaker 3: We think that absolutely should have been done following the

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Speaker 3: results of the survey, and again the results just told

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Speaker 3: us what we already knew. Everyone was expecting those numbers,

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Speaker 3: apparently except for the labor government. We also think there

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Speaker 3: needs to be a full review into resourcing.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Ten years ago there was something called the O'Sullivan Review, sorry,

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Speaker 3: the Sullivan Review, and that was a full comprehensive review

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Speaker 3: into resourcing, so quite different to the immediate review required

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Speaker 3: to look at the immediate crisis in policing. But those

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Speaker 3: two things need to happen simultaneously, but a resourcing review

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Speaker 3: will be a longer, more detailed process, and that could

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Speaker 3: take a number of months. But immediately, right now, we

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Speaker 3: need to be responding to the concerns of our police

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Speaker 3: and working out what is going on at the top.

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Speaker 1: Now with this for next week when parliament resumes and

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Speaker 1: you're calling for this parliamentary review, how quickly could that

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Speaker 1: get underway and how quickly could that work sort of

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Speaker 1: start happening.

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Speaker 3: Like literally the same day, Katie, literally the same day.

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Speaker 1: Just for our listeners, because I know that it's probably

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Speaker 1: going to turn into some political argybarging next week. But

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Speaker 1: for our listeners, would it require like does it require

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Speaker 1: any of our parliamentarians to be taken away from their

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Speaker 1: normal day jobs or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: No, So what would happen is, say at ten o'clock

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Speaker 3: in the morning, I would move the motion that would

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Speaker 3: technically should go to a debate orthough usually government just

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Speaker 3: shut it down and don't even let us talk about it.

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Speaker 3: So let's pretend they were being open and we could

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Speaker 3: discuss the merit of it. Then it would get voted

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Speaker 3: on each each party and the independence would then pick

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Speaker 3: who their two or three people are that are going

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Speaker 3: to be on it.

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Speaker 2: That takes five minutes.

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Speaker 3: By lunchtime we could be having our first meetings setting

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Speaker 3: the terms of reference. So it's really not an issue.

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Speaker 3: People won't be missing parliament to do it. It's an

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Speaker 3: important part of our jobs and really focusing on the

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Speaker 3: health and well being of our police force. You know,

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Speaker 3: at a time when crime is so out of control,

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Speaker 3: it's got to be our number one priority. It just

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Speaker 3: has to be. Everything else flows from having a safe community.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that in any way a review like

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Speaker 1: this would be like would waste time in terms of

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Speaker 1: actually making changes that are required really quickly.

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Speaker 3: No, because what it would do is provide the transparency

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Speaker 3: and oversights. So once you've got government members, opposition members

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Speaker 3: and independents all sitting together, there's nowhere to hide, right

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Speaker 3: And whilst government would probably have the numbers, you know,

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Speaker 3: you can't take away from the fact that you've got

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Speaker 3: other people there holding government to account and providing that

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Speaker 3: high level scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that this is the right path

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Speaker 1: to go down?

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Speaker 2: I can't see any other way to do it.

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Speaker 3: Traditionally, you would have a minister who recognizes the problem

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Speaker 3: in our own department and takes the leadership and action,

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Speaker 3: or you would have a chief Minister who steps in

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Speaker 3: over the Income Minister and takes action. What we've got

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Speaker 3: here is a situation where neither the Chief Minister or

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Speaker 3: the Police Minister think there's a problem, have acknowledged there's

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Speaker 3: a problem, and haven't set forward a plan. And in

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Speaker 3: the absence of leadership, I've got to do whatever I can,

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Speaker 3: as you opposition leader, to make sure that we're forcing

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Speaker 3: some sort of action out of this government. So you know,

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Speaker 3: they can turn around and vote us down next week, Katie,

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Speaker 3: And that's on them, and they've done it plenty of

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Speaker 3: times before. But they're not voting down me. They're voting

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Speaker 3: down sixteen hundred police who have been brave enough to

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Speaker 3: raise this concern. And something I said in my speech Katie,

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Speaker 3: was you had the Minister standing there talking about how

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Speaker 3: health and well beings her biggest priority, and that people

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Speaker 3: have to feel safe and confident to come forward and

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Speaker 3: share their stories. And yet on the other hand, she's

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Speaker 3: basically gaslighting the police saying, oh, yeah, we saw your

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Speaker 3: survey results, but there's nothing to see here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it just the hypocrisy is unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I'm very keen to hear from our listeners

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Speaker 1: this morning. Zero four double nine seven double one three

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Speaker 1: six zero. Do you think that this parliamentary review should

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Speaker 1: be able to go ahead? I mean it is something

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Speaker 1: that obviously Leah Fanocchiaro, the opposition leader, has just said

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Speaker 1: she's going to be putting forward next week in parliament.

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Speaker 1: She's also just said that the reality of it is

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be taking away any of our

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Speaker 1: politicians from doing their normal jobs. It's a committee where

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Speaker 1: then questions can be asked and they can try to

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Speaker 1: get to the bottom of some of these issues. So

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Speaker 1: feel free to send me a message, give us a call,

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Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts, Leah, before I let you

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Speaker 1: go this morning. The issue of crime is one which

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Speaker 1: continues to bubble along. Kids on a round page in

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Speaker 1: Casuarina on the weekend, as young as ten and eleven

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Speaker 1: year years old. I had the auntie of one of

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Speaker 1: the victims call me or will actually email us yesterday,

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Speaker 1: very concerned about the situation and questioning why we are

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Speaker 1: in a situation now where our kids can't go to

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Speaker 1: places like a shopping center without worrying about this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing happening. Now her nephew has autism.

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Speaker 2: Well, I spoke to this eighty two.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you know, she's obviously incredibly concerned and rightly so.

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Speaker 1: Now I know that, you know, we focus a lot

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Speaker 1: on these kids that are doing the wrong thing, but

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Speaker 1: this is just a situation that should not be happening.

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Speaker 3: It's destroying our way of life and our kids, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean when you can't send your fourteen or fifteen

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Speaker 3: year old to Casurina to go to a movie with

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Speaker 3: their friends, or when you're constantly worried about, oh, let's

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Speaker 3: not go out at night. Maybe we shouldn't go get

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Speaker 3: that ice screen, Maybe we shouldn't do this, and shouldn't

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Speaker 3: do that. It starts to encroach on your mental health.

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Speaker 3: It encroaches on the way you live your life. We

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Speaker 3: are letting these ten to eleven twelve year olds essentially

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Speaker 3: terrorize people right across the territory. They are the ones

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Speaker 3: running the show because government is empowering them and disempowering

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Speaker 3: our police to be able to deal with this issue.

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Speaker 2: I mean that it's just insane.

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Speaker 3: We are putting the rights of offenders and criminals above

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Speaker 3: the rights of people to be safe.

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Speaker 1: So how do we change it. How do we make

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Speaker 1: sure that the rights of the victims are put first.

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Speaker 3: Well, my view is that the police portfolio should always

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Speaker 3: be held by the Chief Minister, and we look at

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Speaker 3: the situation we've got in policing right now because we

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Speaker 3: have not had that. If I was Chief Minister k

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Speaker 3: I would hold the police portfolio. We would remove use

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Speaker 3: justice from territory families. It has been a disastrous, failed experiment.

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Speaker 3: We would make sure that breach of bow condition is

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Speaker 3: an offense. We would make sure that if you're a

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Speaker 3: repeat offender, you do not get endless amounts of bail

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Speaker 3: like they currently do now. We'd give our police back

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Speaker 3: the power to deal with criminals out on the street

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Speaker 3: alcohol laws. I mean our police are being treated like

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Speaker 3: a taxi service at the moment with you know, they

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Speaker 3: take two thousand people to the watchhouse a year, three

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Speaker 3: thousand to sobering up shelters, and about fifteen hundred home

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Speaker 3: or to the hospital. I mean, this is not a

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Speaker 3: free taxi service. This is our police who are there

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Speaker 3: to fight crime.

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Speaker 1: Leah, we are going to have to wrap up. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time, so Parliament back next week. Sure it's

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Speaker 1: going to be an interesting one. It will be indeed,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thanks for your time to take care