Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload, the podcast last week thatdline. Welcome back guys
Speaker 1: to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and on
Speaker 1: this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest
Speaker 1: players in television. Each episode you will get a front
Speaker 1: row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors,
Speaker 1: and casting agents lost the talent that we see on
Speaker 1: our screens. TV Reload reloads the shows that we're all
Speaker 1: currently watching and gives you a better insight into our
Speaker 1: television industry and our streaming services. Today on the podcast,
Speaker 1: I have my final guest of the year. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening. It is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: actors ever, a household name and an award winning TV
Speaker 1: and film actress. It's none other than Claudia Carven. Claudia
Speaker 1: started out in films working with the likes of Gary
Speaker 1: McDonald and Judy Davis. Growing up in front of the cameras.
Speaker 1: We saw her work in The Big Steel and The
Speaker 1: Heartbreak Kid, but it was her role as Alex Christiansen
Speaker 1: in the television series Secret Life of Us that had
Speaker 1: audiences mesmerized. It was a great turn of events working
Speaker 1: with the writers like Judy mccrosson and Christopher Lee, and
Speaker 1: the series saw her collaborate for the first time with
Speaker 1: John Edwards, a genius storyteller and producer. John Edwards encourage
Speaker 1: Claudia to work as a director and a producer, and
Speaker 1: they soon collaborated on a TV series called Love My Way,
Speaker 1: which was a series for Foxtel that still has a
Speaker 1: massive cult following even though they only did three seasons.
Speaker 1: That series is one of the most powerful, impactful and
Speaker 1: inspired stories ever brought to the small screen and we
Speaker 1: will get a chance to talk about that today. With
Speaker 1: shows like Time of Our Lives, Puberty, Blues, The Other
Speaker 1: Guy and Spirited, we've been gifted a catalog of characters,
Speaker 1: each as real as the next. Today we will talk
Speaker 1: about all of her roles in these iconic shows. We
Speaker 1: will get a backstage pass to reasons and rationales of
Speaker 1: most of her legendary performances. The new series Bump is
Speaker 1: out on Boxing Day on STAN Australia, which is their
Speaker 1: best series yet and I promise you that. However, let's
Speaker 1: get started on today's episode as I welcome Claudia Carfon
Speaker 1: to the podcast TV Reload.
Speaker 2: That is what acting is acting, is listening and responding.
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll be different to how you thought it would be,
Speaker 1: but you'll make her work.
Speaker 2: I love Alex and I love working with deb Mailman
Speaker 2: and Samuel Johnson.
Speaker 1: I share a flat with Alex, and we're pretty much opposites.
Speaker 2: I'm very confident that Franky from Love My Way is
Speaker 2: living a beautiful life and she's feeling strong and loved somewhere. Hey,
Speaker 2: Mammie had me in a hospital. Heay. Name is Francesca
Speaker 2: Page and she's an excellent mum and an excellent painters man. Tonally,
Speaker 2: it's the same show, but we moved into different territories.
Speaker 1: Please welcome Claudia Carvin on, but.
Speaker 2: We empower our actors.
Speaker 1: Hi, Claudia Carvin, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm very well. How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm doing so well. I'm so happy to be chatting
Speaker 1: with you after doing two hundred and five episodes of
Speaker 1: this podcast. No disrespect to any of my other guests.
Speaker 1: This is the kram Della Creme for me.
Speaker 2: Oh that's too nice, that's way too kind.
Speaker 1: Well, you consistently and have been one of my favorite actors,
Speaker 1: and no matter what role that you've played, I've always
Speaker 1: been genuinely mesmerized by the way in which you make
Speaker 1: your characters seem real.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a lovely, lovely review. I think the sort
Speaker 2: of responsibility that comes with performing is that you do
Speaker 2: want to, you know, pay homage to us as humans
Speaker 2: and as fallible people and to humanity in general. I
Speaker 2: guess you sort of don't want to present the sort
Speaker 2: of fake version of life. Really is my sort of
Speaker 2: motivation anyway, and that's my instinct. That's why I really
Speaker 2: love watching documentaries. I love watching people when they're not
Speaker 2: when things aren't scripted, and I actually watch a lot
Speaker 2: more documentaries than I do drama.
Speaker 1: I think the reason for doing that, though, is, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're studying real people. What you're trying to tap into
Speaker 1: is the nuances of real people.
Speaker 2: That's right, And yeah, that's that's me. I'm just always studying,
Speaker 2: always working.
Speaker 1: I think of all the characters, I think of all
Speaker 1: the characters something that you have in common. And it
Speaker 1: was funny yesterday I watched a whole chunk of Secret
Speaker 1: Life of Us. I watched a whole chunk of Love
Speaker 1: my Way, and all of these women that you play
Speaker 1: was so extraordinarily different. But the one thing that you
Speaker 1: had in common with all of them was that you
Speaker 1: made them curious, you made them intelligent, and I think
Speaker 1: that's the currency of your performance.
Speaker 2: Ah, that's really lovely. Oh wow, Well, I think I
Speaker 2: just set out to make them feel layered and as
Speaker 2: you say, nuanced and in the moment and aware of
Speaker 2: their environments, and you know, and blinded by certain things
Speaker 2: as well. There's always blind spots in us. But intelligence
Speaker 2: is great because I don't know, you know, you never
Speaker 2: know if that's that's a lovely thing to get feedback on.
Speaker 1: I think curious is really interesting because you make them
Speaker 1: always seem in Ga and I you know, I remember
Speaker 1: meeting you at the Logis and this was such an
Speaker 1: odd moment and you kind of looked at me like,
Speaker 1: oh god, this guy's crazy. But I was telling you
Speaker 1: that if ever I felt like nervous or worried, I
Speaker 1: would pretend to be Claudia Carbon and I would do
Speaker 1: this in the doctors. So like, you know, you go
Speaker 1: to the doctors in my twenties and you'd be like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this awkwardness. So I
Speaker 1: would slip into you know you, and you were like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've got that many nuances like
Speaker 1: what are you doing? It sounds so ridiculous. That's why
Speaker 1: I'm so glad.
Speaker 2: I'm totally I totally remember this conversation. Now, that was
Speaker 2: the bizarrest thing anyone has ever said to me on
Speaker 2: a red carpet. Yeah, I can't work at I don't
Speaker 2: know what my idiosynthesies are and how anyone would recognize
Speaker 2: them will repeat them. But that is hilarious and so beautiful.
Speaker 2: I love that. I think you said it was something
Speaker 2: to do with the hesitations or the pauses or whatever. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I shouldn't analyze what I do, because no, it is.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is. It's but it's also you're listening.
Speaker 1: And obviously I don't know you as a person, so
Speaker 1: I'm only going by the performances that you've had and
Speaker 1: with these characters, no matter who they were, and as
Speaker 1: I said, they're all vastly different people. But you could
Speaker 1: see your characters listening, and that's a form of intelligence
Speaker 1: because you're making sure you listen to what people are saying.
Speaker 2: That is what acting is. Acting is listening and responding.
Speaker 2: That is what it is, and that's when you you know,
Speaker 2: in the early days when you start acting, they say
Speaker 2: action and all you can hear is the blood pumping
Speaker 2: in your ear drums, that's all you can hear. You
Speaker 2: can hardly breathe, and you're swept away in this sort
Speaker 2: of panic and you're just getting through the scene. That's
Speaker 2: what happens when you're younger and before you sort of
Speaker 2: just once you realize, actually, all I have to do
Speaker 2: is be here and listen and receive. And I can't
Speaker 2: listen and receive if my blood pressure is going crazy
Speaker 2: and I can hardly breathe. And it calms you down
Speaker 2: and it centers you because you're putting all your energy
Speaker 2: into the other person. You're not thinking about yourself and
Speaker 2: what you're doing. And it's great to take that into
Speaker 2: life as well. It makes life a lot easier to
Speaker 2: get through, and you know, you avoid those sort of
Speaker 2: anxious as often as possibly, sort of avoid that sort
Speaker 2: of panic or anxiety in your own life. But did
Speaker 2: you watch the actors this year? Yes? How funny was
Speaker 2: Chris Hemsworth's speech about how he ripped off Russell Crow
Speaker 2: and he built a whole career pretending to be Russell
Speaker 2: Grow and doing the deep voice with gravitas. And then
Speaker 2: Barry was on set with Russell Crowe playing Zeus and
Speaker 2: he's like, Russell Crows probably thinking why is this guy
Speaker 2: playing Russell Chrome? So funny?
Speaker 1: That is the strangest thing that you're saying that Because
Speaker 1: that was what I didn't want to do today, and
Speaker 1: because I've been ripping you for a good part of
Speaker 1: twenty five years, maybe longer, I just was like, what
Speaker 1: happens if while I'm talking to you today, I start
Speaker 1: doing you back to you?
Speaker 2: So basically you're having a Chris Hemsworth moment. That's pretty good.
Speaker 1: This is my Chris Hemsworth moment.
Speaker 2: That's gorgeous. It's so funny.
Speaker 1: Of all the characters that you've played, though, I still
Speaker 1: think about most of them, and I still feel as
Speaker 1: though they would still exist, do you think about them?
Speaker 1: Do you think about a lot of these characters you've
Speaker 1: played and wonder what they would be doing now?
Speaker 2: Oh wow, what a beautiful question. Frankie. I'm very confident
Speaker 2: that Frankie from Love My Way is living a beautiful
Speaker 2: life and she's feeling strong and loved. Somewhere. Alex is
Speaker 2: probably running a hospital by now, total perfectionist she's probably
Speaker 2: just killing it. Probably internationally, she's probably running some scientific
Speaker 2: medical health company somewhere or platform or something saving people's lives.
Speaker 2: Caroline from Time in My Lives is probably She's probably
Speaker 2: been scheduled by now.
Speaker 1: I'm just hoping she's still with Tommy Little what was
Speaker 1: that character's name again. He was so hot in that show.
Speaker 1: I remember watching that show thinking because he was relatively
Speaker 1: unknown to me when he was in that series, and
Speaker 1: you guys just had really good chemistry, and I just
Speaker 1: thought he was so sexy. So I'm hoping Caroline's there.
Speaker 2: I think he would have. I think he would have
Speaker 2: woke up one morning and gone, I think I need
Speaker 2: to get out of this relationship.
Speaker 1: She was kind of a gross character at times, so
Speaker 1: I mean, she exists in the real world and we
Speaker 1: meet that woman. I mean, we've all met that woman,
Speaker 1: but she kind of was a very different person to
Speaker 1: who you'd played before because she was so unlikable, That's.
Speaker 2: Right, which is why I took the role. In the end.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was Amanda Higgs and Judy m Across
Speaker 2: and the beautiful Crap team from Secret Life of Us,
Speaker 2: so I had a great relationship with them. And they
Speaker 2: offered me the role of Caroline. They sent the scripts
Speaker 2: through and I was like, oh, this is oedious, She's
Speaker 2: ogius and I was like, oh, no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I don't think I want to play this role. Sorry,
Speaker 2: And then I was sort of then a couple of
Speaker 2: days and I was like, I cannot stop thinking about
Speaker 2: that woman and why does she behave like that? And yes,
Speaker 2: you're right, they exist in real life and you come
Speaker 2: across them and you can't get away from them quick enough.
Speaker 2: They just sort of sap your energy somehow. But then
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to. I want to understand
Speaker 2: that woman, and I want to make sense of those
Speaker 2: scenes and I want to I want to investigate that
Speaker 2: attitude to life and what is it like to live
Speaker 2: in that headspace? So I was like, actually, can I
Speaker 2: take the role. I have not put it to someone
Speaker 2: else yet, have you? I want to. I want this
Speaker 2: character to surprise me, and I want to try and
Speaker 2: find the empathy or are crazy like that?
Speaker 1: But you did? I think you did put things into
Speaker 1: that woman as time went on of that show into
Speaker 1: series two, and I felt like, if we had a
Speaker 1: series three, I think you did humanize this Karen woman.
Speaker 1: Do you know she was a Karen before we'd call
Speaker 1: them Karen's. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, we
Speaker 1: like people are probably not as familiar with that show
Speaker 1: as I am. I've rewatched that show so many times
Speaker 1: that my partner of thirteen years he comes home and
Speaker 1: he's like again again, and I'm like, I will rewatch
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 2: But it was an interesting show and that it's sort
Speaker 2: of you weren't really aware of the power of that
Speaker 2: show when you read it, because I felt like, well,
Speaker 2: this is just life, this is what we're all living.
Speaker 2: So it didn't feel that extraordinary to me, and then
Speaker 2: you watch it on screen, you go, oh wow, why
Speaker 2: am I crying all the time? How is this so powerful?
Speaker 2: Until you see your life reflected back at you and
Speaker 2: what you're living in this period of parenting where the
Speaker 2: rules are so specific and so generational, Until you see
Speaker 2: it reflected back at you, you can't sort of process it.
Speaker 2: And I found it incredibly powerful and moving that show.
Speaker 2: I thought it was so sad that the ABC didn't
Speaker 2: order it for a third season. And you know, I
Speaker 2: also loved working with my one of my oldest and
Speaker 2: bestest friends, Justine Clark.
Speaker 1: What I was going to ask you, though, is about
Speaker 1: stepping back with Secret Life of Us. You know, that
Speaker 1: was a really interesting move for you in two thousand
Speaker 1: because you were really known for your movie roles. I
Speaker 1: was wanting to know, you know, why did you say
Speaker 1: yes to that show? Because you know, now it's really
Speaker 1: common for movie actors to be on television. It's like
Speaker 1: you were ahead of your time, but that wasn't the
Speaker 1: case in two thousand. So what was it about Secret
Speaker 1: Life of Us that made you go, oh, I'm going
Speaker 1: to make the move.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It was a really big decision and
Speaker 2: I'd only done TV long running TV once before and
Speaker 2: it was a train wreck. It was a Louis Auers
Speaker 2: series for the ABC when I was in year eleven,
Speaker 2: with Kate Fitzpatrick and Nel Schofield and Paul Chub and
Speaker 2: had all the recipe for being a great show, but
Speaker 2: it just tanked. And it was just immoralizing to be
Speaker 2: stuck on a show that just was not getting an
Speaker 2: audience and no one was watching it, And so I
Speaker 2: sort of vowed to never do that again. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: the Secret Love of Us script came along, and my
Speaker 2: Robin Gardner, who'd been constantly saying, no, you're never doing TV, No,
Speaker 2: you're never doing TV. That's you know, she's she recommended
Speaker 2: that I do this, and I was like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is a change of tune. And I was a bit skeptical.
Speaker 2: And then I read the script and I asked to
Speaker 2: speak to Amanda and Judy because I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't understand. I mean, I was like twenty I think
Speaker 2: I was twenty eight or something like that. I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't understand, Like, how can this really smart, successful
Speaker 2: doctor be so crap with men, you know, be so
Speaker 2: useless in relationships because at that stage, you didn't see
Speaker 2: characters on screen that were sort of contradictory. They just
Speaker 2: didn't exist. Like TV writing has evolved to such an
Speaker 2: extraordinary degree, so I think it's such a sort of
Speaker 2: naive question. Now it's like, well, why would you want
Speaker 2: to see a doctor on television who's also smashing it
Speaker 2: in relationships? And this is perfect communicator with the opposite set.
Speaker 2: So they sort of explained that to him and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, yeah, okay, that's sort of interesting. And
Speaker 2: then I just I didn't sign on for a long
Speaker 2: period of time. I just said lookol again hilariously naively,
Speaker 2: I just said to John Edwards, oh, look, I think
Speaker 2: I'll just do four episodes and then I'll see if
Speaker 2: I want to keep going, which now I'm a producer,
Speaker 2: that's just impossible. And I've often said to John it's like,
Speaker 2: how did you agree to that? And he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: we just took a punt. We sort of knew you'd
Speaker 2: love it and you'd stay on, and so they did.
Speaker 2: They took a punt, and I loved it. I loved it.
Speaker 2: I loved Alex and I loved working with dev Mailman.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's just one of She's a national treasure
Speaker 2: and just an extraordinary actress. And Samuel Johnson, who's just
Speaker 2: he's like a young Ben Mendelson. He's such a live
Speaker 2: while so beautiful to act opposite. So it was just
Speaker 2: a gift, and it was like really interesting because it's
Speaker 2: it was a solid long jobs. So as an actor,
Speaker 2: it was like six months work. You feel like a
Speaker 2: real person having a real job, you know, going to
Speaker 2: work every week. And the audience response was like I
Speaker 2: never I'd never had a you know, I had never
Speaker 2: had a response like that. We go, oh wow, the
Speaker 2: work we're doing, people are actually watching it and talking
Speaker 2: about it. You go, oh, this is why we at
Speaker 2: because we would like people to entertain people and actually
Speaker 2: resonate with an audience. And it happened.
Speaker 1: So people were flying over to live in Sint Kilda
Speaker 1: from England, Like that's what, that's the phenomenon. I'm a
Speaker 1: Melbourne person and I spend at that particular point of
Speaker 1: my life that I was the same age as those characters,
Speaker 1: so we were in Sint Kilda living that life.
Speaker 2: Did you resent us? Did you feel annoyed that we
Speaker 2: were ruining Saint Kilda a bit? Because it sort of
Speaker 2: it did go through a major gentrification, didn't it after
Speaker 2: the show? Like they even had it on the real
Speaker 2: estate for sale come and live the Secret Life of
Speaker 2: Sint Kilda stuff?
Speaker 1: Because I love television so much. For me, it just
Speaker 1: electrified the experience and I enjoyed the whole Oh well,
Speaker 1: this is kind of what we'd be doing for on
Speaker 1: Secret Life of Us. But I did have other friends
Speaker 1: who weren't television obsessed like me and did feel like
Speaker 1: it was a bit of an intrusion of their secret world.
Speaker 1: And that's what they felt like it was because sink
Speaker 1: Kilda is sort of where the super rich met the
Speaker 1: super poor of the time, and I think that's why
Speaker 1: the show electrified like it was even when it came
Speaker 1: back on I don't know if you read about this,
Speaker 1: but when it came back on Netflix, all these young
Speaker 1: people were watching it, and I was so shocked about
Speaker 1: it because they if you rewatch Secret Life of Us,
Speaker 1: there's no phones. Like there's an episode where Samuel comes
Speaker 1: home as Evan to look for you and he has
Speaker 1: to go to all of the places where you may
Speaker 1: be because he can't just call you on the phone
Speaker 1: and he just keeps turning up at the fubah and
Speaker 1: he's like, as Alex come back in here. By Now,
Speaker 1: that would just never happen. Now. Younger people would be thinking,
Speaker 1: what is wrong? Why is any on his phone? Why
Speaker 1: is any on his Apple phone?
Speaker 2: It's quite romantic. Yeah, I know a lot of people
Speaker 2: have watched it. It's really stood the test of time.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh no, I did so much bad
Speaker 2: acting in those first few episodes, like oh no no.
Speaker 2: But I had a little flick through it and it's
Speaker 2: beautiful and it's a beautiful show.
Speaker 1: Have you gone back and watched episodes of it, have.
Speaker 2: You, Yes, Yeah, I did. I did. It was so bizarre. Yeah,
Speaker 2: such a time walk, Yes, and you sort of get
Speaker 2: a little bit more objectivity because of the time that's passed. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I really appreciated the writing and some of the most
Speaker 2: amazing directors cut their teeth on that show, like Kate Shortland,
Speaker 2: who's gone on to didn't she direct a Marvel film recently? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then Tony McNamara was on that and he went
Speaker 2: on to do the great and the favorite you know,
Speaker 2: extraordinarily talented people who were just starting out in not
Speaker 2: for years.
Speaker 1: The way in which the writing was so snappy for
Speaker 1: Secret Life of Us at that particular time was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: That show was in aging people in a way that
Speaker 1: has never happened since. I mean, why haven't they made
Speaker 1: a show about twenty somethings living in an apartment building
Speaker 1: like that since then? I mean, there's been nothing with
Speaker 1: that writing. And as successful as Secret Life of Us
Speaker 1: was of that time.
Speaker 2: Was was Wonderland a bit in that sort of territory.
Speaker 1: I didn't know Wonderland was, Like the writing just wasn't
Speaker 1: at that same level, Like it just wasn't and everyone
Speaker 1: wanted Wonderland to be, you know, the next Secret Life
Speaker 1: of Us, but nothing has ever been done like Secreal
Speaker 1: Life of Us. Those characters were given a lot to do.
Speaker 1: They tackled things that I think producers might worry if
Speaker 1: that subject matter is, if you're allowed to tackle that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff on television, you know they'd be worried.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's interesting, I think given the time period,
Speaker 2: and also because I know Amanda hit so Well and
Speaker 2: Christopher Lee Now and Judy mccrosson and John Edwards now
Speaker 2: are the four core team that were the four creators.
Speaker 2: And now I know I've created shows and I've produced shows,
Speaker 2: so I sort of can detect. I can sort of
Speaker 2: see that you could sort of pull apart the engine,
Speaker 2: I guess. And so when I went back and watched
Speaker 2: Secret Life of Us, I was like, oh wow, Oh
Speaker 2: I can hear Amanda Higgs's voice and that storyline. Oh
Speaker 2: I could hear Judy maccosson's voice and her influence over
Speaker 2: that show. It was just so clear. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you have met Judy macrossen or interviewed her,
Speaker 2: but she's one of those people that just has no filter.
Speaker 2: There is no small talk. She just goes straight to
Speaker 2: the heart of the matter. She says the most outrageous things.
Speaker 2: She'll sort of say out loud what you might you know,
Speaker 2: keep in your head. And it's that bravery and that
Speaker 2: you know, when you set that tone in a story room,
Speaker 2: when you're talking like that, then other people start talking
Speaker 2: like that, and that's when the good, intimate and truthful
Speaker 2: and authentic personal stories come out and you put them
Speaker 2: through the TV filter, and then they make great television,
Speaker 2: great great episodes, great characters.
Speaker 1: I thought it was also clever because it provoked conversation
Speaker 1: amongst everyone that watched it. You know, I think it
Speaker 1: allowed you to see these people talking about things. I mean,
Speaker 1: September eleven happened, and they you know, the characters were
Speaker 1: talking about September eleventh. And then I think afterwards, you know,
Speaker 1: hearing these fictitional characters talk about it with integrity and
Speaker 1: intelligence and even politics. You know, that was even tackled
Speaker 1: in a way that I thought was well ahead of
Speaker 1: its time, and I don't think that's ever been done.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's some dialogue I saw yesterday where one
Speaker 1: of the characters, Jason says, you know, no one admits
Speaker 1: to voting for John Howard, and I thought, well, that's
Speaker 1: you know, that's a bold decision to make in television,
Speaker 1: because you may alienate your audience by having someone make
Speaker 1: such a stance. But then afterwards, I remember sitting around
Speaker 1: talking about it at the time and being like, well,
Speaker 1: did you vote for John Howard? No one admitted to it?
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I mean my character Alex talked about Palestine.
Speaker 2: You know, like no one's brave to talk enough to
Speaker 2: talk about Palestine. It just doesn't happen. So that was
Speaker 2: pretty incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Jason's partner Aleis Gana, Yes, she ends
Speaker 1: up saying horrific things after Alex talks about Palestine. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 2: Why they become a target in the first place.
Speaker 3: Don't tell me talking about israelis the Palestinians are terrorists.
Speaker 2: You don't really expect the US to support them doing
Speaker 2: what your Palestinians have And anyway, that's exactly my point.
Speaker 2: The US totally support is Russia and they always have.
Speaker 1: But I remember being like, how is this on television?
Speaker 1: But these people really exist, and you know, there are
Speaker 1: ignorant people in real life that would say that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. I mean, I don't think we're supposed to
Speaker 1: like her character. I think that was on purpose. But anyway,
Speaker 1: we're delving way too deep into Love My Way is one.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite TV show of all time. Nothing's ever
Speaker 1: touched it. I never forget watching that show for the
Speaker 1: first time. There was four fictitious characters in you know,
Speaker 1: these characters in the first season who were so flawed
Speaker 1: they were kind of almost a bit unlikable. I don't know,
Speaker 1: how did you feel working on that show, you know,
Speaker 1: because this was your first time co creating, co producing,
Speaker 1: you know, were you trying to do something particularly different
Speaker 1: with Love my Way that hadn't been done on television before.
Speaker 2: Well, the genesis of that is that I directed a
Speaker 2: block of Secret Love of Us and Ammanda and John
Speaker 2: let me do that, which was incredible. And then John
Speaker 2: took me aside and said, do you want to create
Speaker 2: a show with me? And he's sort of pitched, you know,
Speaker 2: how about we do a spinoff show you and Rex
Speaker 2: Alex and Rex. I'm like, no, I don't feel like
Speaker 2: doing that. Then we were sort of like some sort
Speaker 2: of crime show. And then I was like, what I
Speaker 2: really want to do is I want to do something
Speaker 2: in Sydney. I don't want it to be in a studio.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be all on location. So I want
Speaker 2: to put all my sort of film values into TV.
Speaker 2: So it's we treat it like it as a film.
Speaker 2: We're not going to treat it like it's TV, which
Speaker 2: means the production values. You want to have more sort
Speaker 2: of mizen scene you want to have, you know, you
Speaker 2: want to be able to see people walking out out
Speaker 2: the window. You want to see people walking around the park,
Speaker 2: or you want some wind or that makes a big
Speaker 2: difference to the feeling and also acting in those environments.
Speaker 2: And it has been Sydney, and I wanted to be
Speaker 2: around being in your thirties and the legacy of past
Speaker 2: relationships because I was a stepmother at the time, you know,
Speaker 2: dealing with flip families. And then John put together an
Speaker 2: amazing writers room that had Brendan Carroll and Jacqueline Persky,
Speaker 2: Piana Siries, Tourny, mac Namara Loofox, incredible voices and you know,
Speaker 2: all the facets of human nature were in that room.
Speaker 2: And I guess we were just all very strong minded
Speaker 2: and we just wanted everything to be authentic. And my
Speaker 2: greatest fear when we were making it was is this
Speaker 2: just sort of middle class naval gazing? Is this going
Speaker 2: to be the moor And show? And no one will
Speaker 2: watch it? And so the only comfort was like, wow,
Speaker 2: well it is sort of our lives and it is
Speaker 2: what we think and how we feel, so we'll just
Speaker 2: go with this. But yeah, it might just be naval gazing.
Speaker 2: So I was pleasantly surprised that people sort of responded
Speaker 2: to those, you know, authentic voices. We all sort of
Speaker 2: were vulnerable and stripped ourselves bare, I guess, and put
Speaker 2: everything up there and yeah, unlikable, and then it's you know,
Speaker 2: gets studied at the aft RS, the scripts get studied
Speaker 2: and we won some award. I don't know, ten years
Speaker 2: after it was when it was made, and it still
Speaker 2: gets sort of talked about. But it was during the
Speaker 2: time where HBO had just launched, and so there were
Speaker 2: shows like The Sopranos, and that was the beginning of
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the writers in Hollywood had
Speaker 2: realized they'd lost all their power. They would get a
Speaker 2: production up and then there's script would be overwrited by
Speaker 2: a famous director or a famous actor or both and
Speaker 2: the writer would just be sort of a third class citizen.
Speaker 2: So what happened in the genesis of storytelling is all
Speaker 2: the writers gravitated to HBO and similar platforms because the
Speaker 2: shows were being run by writers and the writers were
Speaker 2: being respected. And that's what we did on Love My Way.
Speaker 2: It was very rightle led and writer respected, and that's
Speaker 2: that's when you get good story.
Speaker 1: Well, Frankie was so well crafted. I mean she was.
Speaker 1: She couldn't have been any more of a different character
Speaker 1: to Alex from Secret Life of Us. And you know,
Speaker 1: both Frankie and Alex are different to you, you know,
Speaker 1: Claudia Carvin. But you know what was it that you
Speaker 1: enjoyed the most about playing this woman? About playing Frankie?
Speaker 2: See, yeah, see I find that really weird. I look
Speaker 2: at Alex and go, that is me. And I look
Speaker 2: at Frankie and go that is me. And you're going, oh,
Speaker 2: but they're so different. Oh, I see them as the
Speaker 2: same person. I mean, yeah, I think almost every job
Speaker 2: I do, I like my character and bump, I go,
Speaker 2: well that's me. I pretty feel like sort of every
Speaker 2: job I do, go yep, I'm just playing myself.
Speaker 1: This is my version of it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm just one punter that watches your work, you know,
Speaker 1: so this is my opinion of it. So I can't
Speaker 1: speak for everybody, but I could not think of Alex
Speaker 1: and Frankie being like they were just worlds apart. I mean,
Speaker 1: I kind of imagine Frankie, Alex and Caroline even sitting
Speaker 1: together having a conversation like they would hate each other.
Speaker 2: They totally can. I just think it's that's what human
Speaker 2: beings are. We have all those people inside us, all
Speaker 2: of them, and that's why, you know, you can empathize
Speaker 2: with people and connect with people, and they all exist
Speaker 2: in us. We got them all in there.
Speaker 1: I mean I watched those shows and thought, oh, I
Speaker 1: can relate to Alex, And when I watched Frankie, I
Speaker 1: was like, I can relate to it. So I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: they are relatable, and I think you're right, all those
Speaker 1: characters are in us. I just felt like they were
Speaker 1: vastly different. But was it harder to get networks to
Speaker 1: understand a show like that, you know, because the subject
Speaker 1: matter was quite bleak at times?
Speaker 2: No, not at all. We had a wonderful woman called
Speaker 2: Kim Vettra who was looking after us. She was our commissioner,
Speaker 2: and she totally got us. In fact, I would credit
Speaker 2: her with pushing the time further. Like I remember Jack
Speaker 2: Lon Percy coming into the room and we'd already created
Speaker 2: the show and we were up to episode six and
Speaker 2: she walked in and she said, oh, I think we
Speaker 2: should kill Lou, and we all just bawled our eyes out.
Speaker 2: And it was sort of weird because I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: we're just plotting this episode where Lou was doing a
Speaker 2: family tree school project. Oh, starting to feel emotional. Oh,
Speaker 2: this is just so awful, and I sort of I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, okay, we all went yeah, that sort
Speaker 2: of makes sense, you know, structurally, to pull the lynchpin
Speaker 2: out from this world. She is the one that's uniting
Speaker 2: all these people, so what happens when you pull her out?
Speaker 2: So it made sense on a narrative level, But me
Speaker 2: the actor in the room, in the back of my mind,
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, I'll agree to this, but I
Speaker 2: know Kim will come in and she'll say absolutely not.
Speaker 2: So that's good. It'll never have to happen. I'll never
Speaker 2: have to do this. And then Kim Vetra came into
Speaker 2: the room and she was like Yep. She just totally Baptist.
Speaker 2: And then it was like, Oh, no, we're going to
Speaker 2: have to do this. This is just awful.
Speaker 1: I've been living in the same apartment for twenty four
Speaker 1: years in Melbourne and so everything I can remember, and
Speaker 1: I lost my father, father to sudden death, and that
Speaker 1: happened at the same time as that show happened, and
Speaker 1: so I tapped into that piece of television much harder
Speaker 1: than I think even most people would have. But I
Speaker 1: would these characters dealing with grief in a way that
Speaker 1: was so relatable to me that I felt seen. And
Speaker 1: I think that's where television is at its best, is
Speaker 1: when we feel seen on screen, when we relate, and
Speaker 1: that particular series of that show resonated with me in
Speaker 1: a way like no other television ever had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've made a new friend. She lives in Bali,
Speaker 2: and she just because she's Australian, great Australian, and she
Speaker 2: used to just catch up on Australian shows and she
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about Love my Way, no one had
Speaker 2: told her anything about it. She watched it and then
Speaker 2: she just saw her life unfold in front of her.
Speaker 2: She's single mother with a sixteen year old daughter who
Speaker 2: had died in the same way, blue eyed, and I was,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm so sorry, and she said it
Speaker 2: was great and she just used to do what Frankie
Speaker 2: would do, Like she said, I do what she does.
Speaker 2: Like sometimes people come up and ask how my daughter
Speaker 2: isn't I as pretend she saw live, but she's studying
Speaker 2: at UNI and we've formed a really strong bond, and
Speaker 2: she says, to me, know what I went through.
Speaker 1: I know this sounds like I think because of the
Speaker 1: type of actress that you are, for you to be
Speaker 1: able to go to that place so convincingly, there's almost
Speaker 1: a part of you that must have gone through it.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like, we all know
Speaker 1: that you didn't have that experience and that's not your
Speaker 1: real daughter, but I think there's no way you could
Speaker 1: have played that part as well as you did without seriously,
Speaker 1: at some way convincing yourself that that had happened. So
Speaker 1: she's not too far off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a little bit uncomfortable, but yeah,
Speaker 2: what I did was I spoke to counselors at hospitals
Speaker 2: and talked about the moment when you are told given
Speaker 2: this news, and I did a bit of research, but
Speaker 2: then I found this incredible slim book that was called
Speaker 2: something like twenty Tips for Grieving Parents something like that. Honestly,
Speaker 2: before I do a scene, I just open it up
Speaker 2: and it was like, day twenty five, this is what
Speaker 2: you're going to do today, Day fifty, this is what
Speaker 2: you're going to do today. Day it's your child's birthday.
Speaker 2: You just had to read one page of that and
Speaker 2: you're there. Okay, I'm in that headspace. It was an
Speaker 2: extraordinary book. I've still got it. It just took you there.
Speaker 1: The reason why we've talked about it and we've gone
Speaker 1: into it as deep as we have is because grief
Speaker 1: is not something people talk about very easily. And I
Speaker 1: think that show allowed people to be seen and allowed
Speaker 1: people to feel normal. You know. I think people going
Speaker 1: through a lot of that time saw that show and
Speaker 1: felt like, oh, I'm not alone. You know, this weird
Speaker 1: behavior that I'm doing at the time must be real
Speaker 1: because it's being put on screen like this. Why do
Speaker 1: you think that show finished after three seasons? I mean
Speaker 1: I felt like I needed another. I felt like I
Speaker 1: really needed a season four of that show more than
Speaker 1: I needed another series of Secret Life of Us or
Speaker 1: more than I needed another series of Time Time of
Speaker 1: Our Lives. Why did you guys not go into a
Speaker 1: season four?
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, that's an interesting question. Well, jack Lin Perski
Speaker 2: moved overseas because her husband Rowan Woods got a film
Speaker 2: over there. I can't remember what was so, and she was,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the core team, so she wasn't
Speaker 2: involved in series three, but it was tricky her not
Speaker 2: being around. And also I gave birth to Albi at
Speaker 2: the beginning of series three, so we made it a
Speaker 2: shorter run. And then I just I don't know, I
Speaker 2: just think we all felt like we've just run out
Speaker 2: of ideas, you know, Like I think TV is at
Speaker 2: its worst when it becomes business, where it's like, great,
Speaker 2: we've got this brand. Let's just keep generating content, shall we,
Speaker 2: and keep getting those checks. That's when TV's at its
Speaker 2: worst in my opinion. And we just couldn't none of
Speaker 2: us could really find where we wanted to go.
Speaker 1: So you are right though, I mean, the second series
Speaker 1: of Whiteloaders to me was stronger than the first series
Speaker 1: of white Loaders. Not sure if you've watched any of it,
Speaker 1: I'm starting it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've done the first episode it's brilliant.
Speaker 1: But then the second series for that's better than the
Speaker 1: first I think, And that's very rare because most of
Speaker 1: the time people go, great, this is a hit, rush
Speaker 1: it in, you know, where the second series of Whitelatus
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like there's anything rushed about it. It actually
Speaker 1: feels like the first season's a prequel to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you've just got to be really honest
Speaker 2: about with yourself and just make sure you're doing things
Speaker 2: for the right reasons. Our third series of Bump is
Speaker 2: coming out on Boxing Day, and we delivered that in
Speaker 2: about April and Stan weren't sure whether they wanted a
Speaker 2: fourth series, and so all year I've pretty much just
Speaker 2: been cruising around and having a lovely quiet time. I
Speaker 2: haven't done much work, and I've sort of thought, oh,
Speaker 2: it's sort of great. We're not doing a Bump for
Speaker 2: not really sure where we'd take it or what we
Speaker 2: do or say. And now we're developing Bump four. And
Speaker 2: because we have that breathing time, it allowed us to go, actually,
Speaker 2: we really want to do this and say this. It's
Speaker 2: we're galvanized and we have a really strong theme and
Speaker 2: stories that we genuinely want to tell and feel passionately about.
Speaker 2: But we had that breathing space, which was great. We
Speaker 2: didn't have to just go straight in and start churning
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 1: Season three. I've watched all of it, so I've been
Speaker 1: very lucky to have seen the whole thing. And I
Speaker 1: watched it over two days because you know, I wanted
Speaker 1: to watch it the way Australia is going to get
Speaker 1: to watch it, binge it. I really enjoyed season three
Speaker 1: the most.
Speaker 3: I think that I'm so happy you said that, because
Speaker 3: it is so dangerous to just pump out stuff, and
Speaker 3: that's what everyone felt, were all the cast and.
Speaker 2: All the crew. They read the series three scripts and
Speaker 2: like these are the best scripts. And I was just
Speaker 2: saying to Kelsey, that is so unusual that we were
Speaker 2: still managing to come up with true and relevant story
Speaker 2: by the third series, because usually you started to starting
Speaker 2: to run out of ideas or things becoming a bit contrived,
Speaker 2: like how do we convincingly, you know, intertwine these people's
Speaker 2: lives and generate drama. It's really it gets harder. And
Speaker 2: that's why I just feel so proud of us that
Speaker 2: we got to series three and reinvented the world and
Speaker 2: kept it alive. Tonally, it's the same show, but we
Speaker 2: moved into different territory. It was like time travel. It
Speaker 2: was so exciting and same with series four. We feel
Speaker 2: like we're covering genuinely new territory and yet we don't
Speaker 2: sort of have to shoehorn the stories into the world
Speaker 2: in a sort of a contrived way.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that you made some really bold choices
Speaker 1: with season three, and I think that might have been
Speaker 1: hard in the writer's room to think, oh, can we
Speaker 1: do this? Is this kind of jumping the shark. But
Speaker 1: everything lands, Everything works really well. And what's interesting to
Speaker 1: me about Bump and of how I felt about when
Speaker 1: it was promoted for series one, was that it looks
Speaker 1: really different for you and John Edwards like it looked
Speaker 1: a little different, but yet by the time I watched
Speaker 1: the very first episode of season one of bub, I
Speaker 1: was like, there's the grit, there's the reality. There's the
Speaker 1: real world that you guys have been creating for decades now,
Speaker 1: and it is in this show. However, in a third season,
Speaker 1: it's kind of where most seasons have their worst season,
Speaker 1: you're at your best and I think all of the
Speaker 1: actors could not be any better.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think what makes it so different is
Speaker 2: it's half hours. It's the first time John and I
Speaker 2: have done half hours, and that really does change things.
Speaker 2: It changes the way you tell stories. Oh, I'm so
Speaker 2: glad to get that feedback. That's fabulous, that's so great.
Speaker 1: And I'm doing my best to hold my timee because
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to hear anything about this series.
Speaker 1: I think that the fans of the show need to
Speaker 1: come back and be surprised, and I think new audiences
Speaker 1: if they're listening to this right now. I might be
Speaker 1: bold by saying this, but I don't even feel like
Speaker 1: you need to see season one or season two. You
Speaker 1: can just pick up this show at season three because
Speaker 1: it's just as vibrant and the characters are just so
Speaker 1: accessible that you can tap in at this point and
Speaker 1: it will.
Speaker 2: Be well, you know, I don't want to take up
Speaker 2: anymore of people's time is necessary, because they should be
Speaker 2: walking in the sunshine and swimming and dancing, not sitting
Speaker 2: in front of a screen. So I'm with you. Stan
Speaker 2: probably would prefer people to go back and watch series
Speaker 2: one and two.
Speaker 1: I just think if you watch season three. You will
Speaker 1: go back and watch series one and two afterwards. I
Speaker 1: just think there's an entry point, there's a really clear
Speaker 1: entry point. But what is it about your work in
Speaker 1: collaboration with John and Dan that makes these shows so electric?
Speaker 1: Like no one else is doing it. It's almost inked
Speaker 1: to you that you understand Australian culture in a way
Speaker 1: that no one else in Australia is telling those stories.
Speaker 1: What is it? I don't know. How are you doing this?
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, I think it's a little bit like what
Speaker 2: Judy Mcrosson did on Secret Life of Us. You sort
Speaker 2: of create an atmosphere in the story room where people
Speaker 2: unlock things and people don't offer up inauthentic ideas or
Speaker 2: you get quite raw. I'd say that's probably it. I
Speaker 2: think John Edwards is quite unusual and that he's really
Speaker 2: he really gives people a lot of permission to play.
Speaker 2: He doesn't try and control things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think that you understand so the social
Speaker 1: conscience of Australia. I think that's what it is to me,
Speaker 1: like no other storyteller.
Speaker 2: That's great. I mean, that's what we're aspiring to do.
Speaker 2: So that's really lovely to hear that that's really great.
Speaker 1: Do you remember fifteen years ago doing like a presentation's
Speaker 1: on YouTube where you talk about the importance of the
Speaker 1: writers and the importance of the actors and those people
Speaker 1: working together, and you were very passionately talking about it.
Speaker 2: The writers and the actors, two very creative people are
Speaker 2: quarantine from each other. Potentially, what you could do is
Speaker 2: think about sitting, putting aside four to five hours or
Speaker 2: whatever whatever you've got for the actors to meet or
Speaker 2: actor whoever you think is appropriate to be with the
Speaker 2: writer and with the present, and go through that script
Speaker 2: scene by saying, yeah, I did watch a bit of
Speaker 2: that sometime. I sort of I was cringing in horror
Speaker 2: because I you know, it was early days and I
Speaker 2: wasn't really I really wasn't that authorized to speak like that,
Speaker 2: to be honest. And I don't think that template works
Speaker 2: for everyone. It doesn't work for every actor, and it
Speaker 2: doesn't work for every producer, and it certainly doesn't work
Speaker 2: for every writer. But it works the way we do
Speaker 2: it and the way we collaborate and the atmosphere that
Speaker 2: we create. But I mean, you know, on Bump, we
Speaker 2: empower our actors. We use Kirstin McGregor to cast, and
Speaker 2: we cast actors who are smart and good people and
Speaker 2: professionals and passionate. And then you, you know, because I'm
Speaker 2: a producer on set as well, in those downtime moments,
Speaker 2: you talk to those actors about how do you feel
Speaker 2: about that scene? How do you feel about your character
Speaker 2: doing this? Do you want to pictu us an idea
Speaker 2: for your character? Do you want to name your mum? Yes,
Speaker 2: I want to give her my grandmother's name. So that
Speaker 2: is that cross pollination of making sure those actors feel
Speaker 2: empowered and feel seen and heard, because so often as
Speaker 2: an actor you're just just told to do stuff and
Speaker 2: told to wear stuff and you know it's not doesn't
Speaker 2: fit the character, but no one's you know, it's an
Speaker 2: expedient medium, so you don't have a lot of time
Speaker 2: to go around and check in with all the actors
Speaker 2: about does this feel real to you? And a lot
Speaker 2: of actors are not going to rock the boat and
Speaker 2: be unpopular or be difficult and inverted commas, so you
Speaker 2: know they'll be professional and do it. But when you
Speaker 2: get asked, actors very rarely disappoint you. They they're smart
Speaker 2: and they have good instincts and they should be invited
Speaker 2: to contribute creatively, but not all actors want to and
Speaker 2: not all actors are good at it, So it's just
Speaker 2: a manner of managing.
Speaker 1: Well, whatever's happening is unbelievable because even with these younger people,
Speaker 1: you know that you've been able to alight in this series.
Speaker 1: They're all phenomenal. Like all of these young people in
Speaker 1: this show, the show wouldn't work if you didn't have
Speaker 1: that level being matched by the adult actors in this
Speaker 1: I mean, your daughter is so brilliant.
Speaker 2: Natalie Morris, She's she's utterly superb. I love that girl
Speaker 2: so much. When I met her over Zoom, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god. You know she was reading the same
Speaker 2: books I was reading at that same age. We've got
Speaker 2: so many things in common, and go to the theater
Speaker 2: with her tonight. We spend a lot of time together
Speaker 2: off screen. We go for bushwalks, we do yoga, we
Speaker 2: go for swims. Like that's a genuine connection there, that's
Speaker 2: real chemistry. Like I utterly adore Natalie.
Speaker 1: Her performance has a lot of your mannerisms, Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's did you both work on that together or is
Speaker 1: that the work being done by you creating that relationship.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the connections there and you're genuinely friends,
Speaker 1: but what is coming across on screen is a mother
Speaker 1: daughter relationship that is it's so authentical, it's so real.
Speaker 2: Well, that's full credit to Natalie. That is full credit
Speaker 2: to her. And she's a really really intelligent performer and
Speaker 2: highly aware, highly observant, highly tuned in. You know, she's
Speaker 2: a daughter of she grew up in Canberra in the bush.
Speaker 2: She's got one of four siblings and her dad's a GP.
Speaker 2: She just has this solid base and this increditious. She's
Speaker 2: so perceptive and yes, she did something in the scene.
Speaker 2: It was so funny. I was watching her on set
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I love that little moment
Speaker 2: where you did that, and she went, I was copying
Speaker 2: what you did in that of the scene because I'm
Speaker 2: your daughter. And I was like, oh, wow, you are
Speaker 2: just like you're so evolved. She's so clever.
Speaker 1: That's so brilliant, Like she's doing that so well. And
Speaker 1: Carlos is amazing, everyone is amazing. I think the comedy
Speaker 1: in this series is also is there, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's effortlessly there and it's not funny. The same way
Speaker 1: that Love My Way was funny. It's not funny like that.
Speaker 1: It's not funny like a sitcom. But you are genuinely
Speaker 1: laughing out loud and enjoying this show.
Speaker 2: Well that's I mean, that's how we are in the
Speaker 2: writer's room. And we've got We've also got Nick Coyle.
Speaker 2: I have to give a lot of credit to Nick Coyle.
Speaker 2: He's he wrote two episodes of series three and he
Speaker 2: came into the Bump story room just for series three
Speaker 2: and he did change the climate of the room. Like
Speaker 2: he's we just like we want to have fun. How
Speaker 2: can we have the most fun with this scene? How
Speaker 2: can we give this actor the most you know, like
Speaker 2: the most absurd thing to play that they're going to
Speaker 2: enjoy going to work that day.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you one last question, because it's
Speaker 1: the same question goes on all of my podcasts. We'll
Speaker 1: do it, smash it out, but what is something from
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, something that the viewers won't know or
Speaker 1: won't see, kind of like a behind the scene secret
Speaker 1: of the makings of Bump.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean there's so many like for instance, the
Speaker 2: baby we had twenty different babies, so you just like
Speaker 2: have a different baby in every scene. I mean people
Speaker 2: may have noticed that once you tune into it, it's
Speaker 2: really annoying. I mean there was all a behind the
Speaker 2: scenes COVID stuff which you can't see on screen. You know,
Speaker 2: we went out, we wanted one of the first productions
Speaker 2: to go out in COVID, the first wave. Then we
Speaker 2: went out. Second series was just tuned into Delta, and
Speaker 2: our third series was totally tuned into Omicron. So we
Speaker 2: were just smashed series after series. In fact, Series three
Speaker 2: was the worst out of them all. We were literally
Speaker 2: it was like collecting water with a sieve. So you
Speaker 2: are like, oh, okay, so we don't have that actor
Speaker 2: today because they have COVID. Oh right, so we don't
Speaker 2: have this location now because you know it's in a
Speaker 2: lockdown suburb or the amount of last minute scrabbling that
Speaker 2: was happening behind the scenes of series three would blow
Speaker 2: your mind. And yet what's so curious is you lose
Speaker 2: something that we all loved and we all created in
Speaker 2: the room and you have to kill it and then
Speaker 2: you go, oh, okay, so we'll do this. So you've
Speaker 2: just got to sort of just keep reinterpreting it and
Speaker 2: you know, trying to stay creative with the problem solving,
Speaker 2: and I think we did. But yeah, that behind the
Speaker 2: scenes scrabbling was going on.
Speaker 1: The world will be a different world while you're shooting
Speaker 1: season four, so that like it's a lot has changed,
Speaker 1: and so I think that the entire experience will be different.
Speaker 1: Yet again, who knows. Maybe then it'll be a really
Speaker 1: crap season because you know, all of that, all of
Speaker 1: it right, taken out of it, and so the yeah
Speaker 1: gets taken out but obviously obviously not. Claudia. I am
Speaker 1: so thankful for the generosity of your time to be
Speaker 1: talking to me this morning. You are the most amazing
Speaker 1: television and film actor in Australia and I will be
Speaker 1: in your audience for a very long time. So good
Speaker 1: luck with everything and thank you.
Speaker 2: I plan to keep working up until the day before
Speaker 2: I die, so you.
Speaker 1: Know, okay, look after yourself.
Speaker 2: Thank you, said bye.