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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, I would say I'll do more than half the housework.

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Speaker 2: Do you disagree with that?

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Speaker 3: You're laughing?

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Speaker 4: Do you mean blowing the lease?

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson, the author of six

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Speaker 2: books about raising happy families. I'm here with Kylie, my

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Speaker 2: wife and mum to our six kids. Who's a little

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Speaker 2: bit cranky with me today? Because I won't be saying

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Speaker 2: the author of six books for much longer. I've taken

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Speaker 2: on some projects. You might say, Kylie, you're with me

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Speaker 2: on FaceTime because we're living in different places right now,

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Speaker 2: and I'm kind of glad because.

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Speaker 3: You are a bit cranky. Do you want to highlight

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Speaker 3: why are you a bit cranky?

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Speaker 4: Well, at the.

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Speaker 5: End of Parental Guidance, you took on two more books,

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Speaker 5: which would take you to eight. Then you ran me

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Speaker 5: yesterday to tell me that not only are you about

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Speaker 5: to write book seven and eight, but you've actually now

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Speaker 5: just taken on nine and ten, and over the next

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Speaker 5: eighteen months you have to write four books.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of work to do, isn't there.

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Speaker 2: It's exciting such a big project, so much opportunity to

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Speaker 2: help families in so many different ways.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm so excited for this, but you're share

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Speaker 3: my enthusiasm.

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Speaker 5: Part of the reason we were moving to the coast

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Speaker 5: was because we were looking to slow life down and

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Speaker 5: to enjoy what life has to offer instead of you

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Speaker 5: being stuck in the office writing.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, honey, it's going to be fine. It's going

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Speaker 2: to be fine. I promise you it's going to be great.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So this is the point where maybe I should put

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Speaker 2: you on mute because I'm really scared about what you're

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Speaker 2: about to say.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's just say I have this recorded, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, you do.

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Speaker 4: I have proof that you told me it's going to

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Speaker 4: be okay.

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Speaker 2: So the reason that we're having this conversation with you

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Speaker 2: in public rather than keeping it behind closed doors is

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Speaker 2: because every relationship has it challenges. But when we get

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Speaker 2: our relationship working, when we're on the same page, we

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Speaker 2: are much better together. And tonight, there's a webinar for

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Speaker 2: all Happy Families members, whether you're a basic member or

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Speaker 2: a Premium member. It's called Better Together last year, Kylie

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Speaker 2: and I did a workshop, a two hour workshop about it.

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Speaker 3: This is a completely different thing.

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Speaker 2: It's just me a one hour webinar about how to

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Speaker 2: make your couple's relationship stronger, whether you're co parenting, whether

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Speaker 2: you're with an x or not with an ex, regardless

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Speaker 2: of the whether with your husband or wife or a

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Speaker 2: new partner, Better Together is for you. If you're not

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Speaker 2: a Happy Family's member, why not. It's only thirteen dollars

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Speaker 2: a month or eighteen for a premium membership. The list

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Speaker 2: of value the premium Happy Families content that we give

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Speaker 2: you is extraordinary. Thirteen dollars a month or eighteen dollars

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Speaker 2: a month, or when you sign up for a year,

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Speaker 2: you get two months free. So jump online and sign

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Speaker 2: up today and join us for Better Together tonight. If

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Speaker 2: you don't want to sign up as a member, you

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Speaker 2: can still pay thirty dollars and the webinar is yours

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Speaker 2: as well. So Kylie, let's talk about the webinar. We're

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Speaker 2: going to be talking about how to make our relationship strong.

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Speaker 2: But I thought in the podcast today we could play

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Speaker 2: around with some relationship errors that every single one of us.

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Speaker 4: Make, or we've highlighted many times that I'm perfect.

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Speaker 5: So I'm not sure which I'm bringing up today, but

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Speaker 5: let's just say, for everybody else out there, what would

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Speaker 5: you say the number one relationship mistake would be?

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Speaker 2: All right, So we're going to talk about this in

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Speaker 2: detail tonight, but let's give it a sort of a

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Speaker 2: quick overview right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to say the number one.

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Speaker 2: Mistake is it's universal. We all make this mistake, and

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Speaker 2: that is that we fall victim to biases. So let

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Speaker 2: me talk about a couple of them, and you tell

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Speaker 2: me whether or not there might be any of these

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Speaker 2: even in the current issue that we're dealing with just now.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to start with egocentrism. Egocentrism is when

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Speaker 2: we feel like everything is about us. Okay, so I'm

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Speaker 2: only thinking about things from my perspective. I'm seeing it

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Speaker 2: through my lens. And then let's say you're not in

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Speaker 2: a great mood, Kylie, and it has nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with me at all. Egocentrism biases when I say to you, hey,

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Speaker 2: what's wrong and you say nothing, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: it seems like you're upset, and you say, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: not doing great, but it's got nothing to do with you.

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Speaker 3: I'm just having a bit of.

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Speaker 2: A day, and I'm like, no, no, no, there's something going on,

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Speaker 2: and you're denying it, and I think that there's something

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Speaker 2: the matter. And then what happens is you start to

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Speaker 2: get mad at me because I'm telling you that there

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Speaker 2: must be something wrong and that you're mad at me,

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Speaker 2: and you're saying that you're not mad at me, which

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Speaker 2: makes you mad at me, even though it had nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with me in the first place. But now

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Speaker 2: it does have everything to do with me because I've

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Speaker 2: made it all about me, because my egocentrism.

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Speaker 3: That was a mouthful, Yeah, but you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: right well.

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Speaker 5: Since we're talking about it, obviously, yesterday when you shared

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Speaker 5: with me that you had taken on these extra projects,

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Speaker 5: I was not very excited about it, and our conversation

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Speaker 5: didn't end on a good note.

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Speaker 3: No no, no, you're pretty cranky.

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Speaker 2: And then you texted me later and try to explain

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Speaker 2: yourself a little bit more and we were able to

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Speaker 2: work it out. But that's because not only was the

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Speaker 2: egocentric bias working against me. I was getting a little

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Speaker 2: bit too egocentric, but I was also doing something called

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Speaker 2: projection bias. So projection bias is when we think that

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Speaker 2: other people share our preferences and believes more than they

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Speaker 2: actually do. I just thought that you'd be as excited

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Speaker 2: about this as I am, because if I'm excited about it,

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Speaker 2: surely you're going to be excited about it.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: One of the things that I absolutely love about you

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Speaker 5: and always have is your enthusiasm for life, and you

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Speaker 5: desire to jump jump into life in every every stage,

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Speaker 5: every place that you feel would be beneficial. And in

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Speaker 5: saying that, it's also the thing that drives me the

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Speaker 5: most crazy, Yeah, because you just you don't know how

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Speaker 5: to sit still and you don't know how to not

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Speaker 5: be doing things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. We've actually talked about this before.

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Speaker 2: We're pretty certain when we look at the criteria for

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Speaker 2: adult ADHD that I probably qualify and I might have

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Speaker 2: even had it when I was a child, but it

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Speaker 2: was never diagnosed. And this is one of those things

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Speaker 2: where and the other aspect of this is we get

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Speaker 2: kind of optimistic about our own well I do anyway,

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Speaker 2: about our own capacity to do things.

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Speaker 3: And I remember it many years ago, somebody said, what's

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Speaker 3: your life motto?

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Speaker 2: If you had to make up a life model on

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Speaker 2: the spot what would be And I was quite for

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Speaker 2: about ten seconds and then I said there would be

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Speaker 2: two things. Number one, always bite off more than you

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Speaker 2: can chew a Number two, make it up as you

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Speaker 2: go along. And I remember you just laughing and being

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Speaker 2: that is so what we do, that is so what

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Speaker 2: you do. But that's where projection bias. It becomes a

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Speaker 2: really big error because when I'm projecting onto you and

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Speaker 2: saying this is going to and we do it all

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Speaker 2: the time, right, this is going to be great, You're

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Speaker 2: going to love it, and we're only saying it because

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Speaker 2: I think it's going to be great, and I think.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to love it.

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Speaker 2: So it's like oysters oysters and olives love olives. And

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Speaker 2: when I say to you you can love it, it's

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Speaker 2: so good, that's projection. I want to get to a

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Speaker 2: couple more of these biases, because we all make these mistakes.

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Speaker 2: After the break, let's talk about overclaiming and the fundamental

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Speaker 2: attribution error.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 3: For a happier family, try a Happy Families membership, because

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Speaker 3: a happy family doesn't just happen.

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Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we're

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Speaker 4: delving into some of the biggest relationship mistakes we all make,

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Speaker 4: except no.

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Speaker 3: Even me.

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Speaker 2: I make these more than just about anyone, even though

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Speaker 2: I teach people how to not make them. And that's

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Speaker 2: because Tonight Better Together. The webinar is happening for all

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Speaker 2: Happy Families members. It's including your membership. If you're not

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Speaker 2: a member, please sign up today and join us for

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Speaker 2: what should be an absolute cracker, an absolute cracker.

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Speaker 3: Of a webinar.

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Speaker 2: Kylie, We've done two of our that I'm going to

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Speaker 2: talk about. There's actually about seven that we could talk about.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there's more but that we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about in tonight's webinar. I want to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about the overclaiming bias. Tell me if this sounds familiar.

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Speaker 2: If somebody says, hey, justin what percentage of the housework

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Speaker 2: do you do? What percentage do you think I would claim?

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Speaker 4: I think that you would think you do about fifty percent.

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Speaker 2: No, I would say I do more than that. I

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Speaker 2: would say I do more than half the housework. Do

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Speaker 2: you disagree with that you're laughing.

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Speaker 4: Do you mean blowing the leaves?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, no, no, I'm talking about inside the house. I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking about all the stuff outside the house. I

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Speaker 2: reckon I would do between fifty and sixty percent. Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to all of the cleaning or the vacuuming,

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Speaker 2: or the type the amount of work that I do

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen alone, Kylie, it's got to be seventy

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Speaker 2: percent of the housework, the amount of time that I

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Speaker 2: spend in the kitchen.

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Speaker 3: Wow, how much would you say that you do?

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Speaker 2: What percentage would you say if we weren't having this,

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Speaker 2: if we hadn't already had this part of the conversation.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I would say that I do about eighty eighty percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And if we ask the children and what percentage

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Speaker 2: they did, it's going to add up to more than

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Speaker 2: one hundred, right.

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Speaker 4: As well with your seventy percent.

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Speaker 2: So all right, So maybe I've overclaimed it on purpose.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I've overclaimed it a little bit on purpose.

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Speaker 3: But here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: When researchers ask couples who does what percentage of what

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Speaker 2: share of the housework, what we tend to find is

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Speaker 2: that it always adds up to.

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Speaker 3: More than one hundred.

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Speaker 2: Both partners believe that they're contributing more than they probably

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Speaker 2: actually are, and they're overclaiming, and this is a bias.

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Speaker 3: Now, this happens for a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 2: Number One, I know very well what I'm doing, but

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Speaker 2: I don't really have a clue what you're up to.

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Speaker 2: I'm fully immersed in my own world, and I know

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Speaker 2: how many dishes I clean, and I know how much

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Speaker 2: how many sourcemans I scrub, like, I know what I'm

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Speaker 2: doing and how much work I'm doing on the house,

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Speaker 2: but I can't see what you're doing because I'm so

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Speaker 2: busy doing what I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: And so that's part of the overclaiming problem.

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Speaker 2: The other part is we just we actually think that

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Speaker 2: we're bigger contributors than we really are, overclaiming. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you and I together, we're doing one hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: percent of the housework, Kylie, and yet it's still never done.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand that.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, tell me what's the last one.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to talk about that later tonight.

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Speaker 2: And the last one that we'll talk about for now

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Speaker 2: is the fundamental attribution error, which is a really fancy

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Speaker 2: way of saying that when our.

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Speaker 4: Partner makes it's just a mouthful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I know, I know, but it's been around for

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Speaker 2: about seventy years now and there's a lot of research

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Speaker 2: to support.

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Speaker 3: And that's what it's called fundamental attribution error.

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Speaker 2: It's basically, when our partner makes a mistake, it's primarily

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Speaker 2: because they're faulty, like they've got an issue with their character,

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Speaker 2: and we see their character flaws and weaknesses and we

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Speaker 2: blame them for being malicious or unthoughtful or selfish. But

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Speaker 2: when we make mistakes, it was all about the circumstances.

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Speaker 2: It was just bad like conspiring against us.

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Speaker 3: It's not me. It's the environment. It's not me.

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Speaker 2: It's the pressure, it's the kids, it's the fact that

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Speaker 2: my mum called at the wrong time. It's all of

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Speaker 2: those kinds of things. So when you get mad at

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Speaker 2: me for doing something that you didn't want me to do,

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Speaker 2: that's not take on bok like take on too many books.

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Speaker 2: It's not actually my fault. It's all of the other

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Speaker 2: stuff that's happening. It's all of that stuff out there,

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Speaker 2: not me, because I'm a good person. But when you

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Speaker 2: do the wrong thing, you know, if you were to

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Speaker 2: sum it up in a simple sentence. Fundamental attribution area

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Speaker 2: is basically, I want you to judge me by my intentions,

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Speaker 2: not my actions, because that's how you judge yourself.

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Speaker 3: You judge yourself by your intentions, not your actions. But

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Speaker 3: we tend ah.

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Speaker 4: You know what you were thinking in the moment that

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Speaker 4: you did whatever you.

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Speaker 3: Did exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: So all of those things we're going to be talking

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Speaker 2: about in Better Together Tonight, as well as the solutions

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Speaker 2: how we can get past these faulty biases, how we

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Speaker 2: can get past our failure to invest, how we can

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Speaker 2: get our focus right in our relationship, get past the

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Speaker 2: idea that we should be comfortable, recognize the bumps in

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Speaker 2: the robe a road sorry, and then look at six

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Speaker 2: sure fireways that we can strengthen our relationship. I think

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Speaker 2: this is going to be the best webinar that I've

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Speaker 2: done in such long time. I can't wait for you

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Speaker 2: to join me, Kylie. Thanks for sharing all of my

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Speaker 2: faults with everyone in today's podcast.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 4: Well, you must feel like you've just hit the jackpot.

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Speaker 4: I feel married today with no faults at all.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that every day tonight.

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Speaker 2: Please join us Better Together at seven o'clock queens Land time,

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Speaker 2: eight o'clock New South b was Victoria time.

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Speaker 3: Check your local guides for details.

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Speaker 2: What I mean by that is jump on a Happy

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Speaker 2: families dot com dot you become a Happy Family's member.

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Speaker 2: It's included in your membership thirteen bucks a month or

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Speaker 2: eighteen bucks a month. Or if you don't want to

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Speaker 2: become a member for some reason that I can't quite understand,

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Speaker 2: you can always buy the webinar for thirty dollars and

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Speaker 2: hopefully we'll have a record crowd, a whole bunch of

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Speaker 2: people working out how to make their relationships better. That's

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Speaker 2: better together tonight. All the details at Happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot you. As always, we appreciate Justin Roland. He

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Speaker 2: produces the podcast and makes it sound great and fixes

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Speaker 2: up all of our mistakes.

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Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. He's the ideas man. Craig,

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Speaker 3: thanks for your work.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like to get more info, Like I said,

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Speaker 2: all the details are at happy families dot com dot au.