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Speaker 1: Mama always always, sir, be careful.

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Speaker 2: Love those Uh.

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Speaker 3: Let well use your head, they will tear you lack

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Speaker 3: a paper talk.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no.

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Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Remy.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to It's layer.

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Speaker 2: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago when we were in high school.

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Speaker 3: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

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Speaker 3: and everything else under the sun.

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Speaker 2: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, yeah yeah yeah yeah. So in light

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Speaker 3: of just being coming coming heavy this season, our elevation

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Speaker 3: this season, we've obviously chosen another topic room with that.

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Speaker 1: Yo, yeah, in Malaya's domestic violence. What are you? What

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Speaker 1: are you thinking?

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Speaker 2: Why do you think this is difficult to chat about

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Speaker 2: because it happens so often in especially our communities black community.

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Speaker 2: It's such a what what's the thing was like the

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Speaker 2: most known and it's not known unknown, but like the

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Speaker 2: thing that happens the most that people think or pretend

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Speaker 2: does not happen, Like it's one of those things that

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Speaker 2: is so.

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Speaker 1: Pretty huge elephant in the room, Yes, huge.

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Speaker 2: Huge elephant in the room, and its I don't know

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Speaker 2: about other people, but it's had an impact in my

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Speaker 2: life as well. And I've seen it and around me,

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Speaker 2: grew up with it around me, and it's I think

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Speaker 2: it's difficult because it's confronting because no one wants to

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Speaker 2: look like the villain, right or no one wants to

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Speaker 2: look like the sort of the victim. You don't want

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Speaker 2: to look weak either, So it's one of those things.

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Speaker 2: And of course as Zimbabweans, we like to uphold the

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Speaker 2: perfect home situation. The propectics, optics, optics are so so

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Speaker 2: huge for us, so it's uncomfortable. It's also just in

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Speaker 2: general a difficult thing to talk about. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think that's why we're talking about it, which is kind

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Speaker 2: of warped. But yeah, and for.

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Speaker 3: You, I have to agree. I think also people have

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Speaker 3: different nuances and different facets to them, so I think

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Speaker 3: domestic violence really brings that to the forefront because if

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Speaker 3: it's your mate who's being violent towards his wife or

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Speaker 3: towards her husband, it's like they don't like that with me,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like it's like it definitely

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Speaker 3: drives this hole. It's and and it's it's for the

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Speaker 3: most part it's it's it's behind closed doors. It's the

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Speaker 3: ultimate behind closed doors. And the moment that person, the

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Speaker 3: perpetrator becomes so confident to do it in front of

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Speaker 3: someone else, yes.

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Speaker 1: Then then that is that's escalation.

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Speaker 3: They've come from a long way of having hidden it.

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Speaker 3: So I think that's why it's so difficult talk about,

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Speaker 3: because it's confronting, it's jarring.

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Speaker 1: And then when you when you see it in.

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Speaker 3: Someone else, you realize that you're seeing it at the

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Speaker 3: end because definitely they're not just gonna start with punching,

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Speaker 3: you know, they're gonna start Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So like it's so confronting because.

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Speaker 3: You're like, they're not like that with me, they're such

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Speaker 3: a stand up, stand up person, or that it leaves

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Speaker 3: you vulnerable because you're like do I know you?

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Speaker 1: Like, how can I not know this about you? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: And then it's like oh what.

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Speaker 3: Then an automatic thing is what did she or what

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Speaker 3: did he do to drive you to that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So I think that's why it makes a different chatter

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Speaker 3: about because it's the ultimate in realizing that you never

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Speaker 3: know someone true, never.

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Speaker 2: Truly they are people true that we hide like people

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Speaker 2: hide from each other exactly, and to that too. I

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Speaker 2: think it's taboo to speak of because this idea of

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Speaker 2: airing dirty laundry, and we are a religious society, you know,

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Speaker 2: we believe in God and also like back and she

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Speaker 2: see it, like, what's happening in someone's home. Leave it alone.

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Speaker 2: That's their business. It has nothing to do with me. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's such. And I think it's also taboo because a

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Speaker 2: lot of people have experienced it or seen it or

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Speaker 2: witnessed or been around. So it's kind of yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: this kind of best kept secret, which is not real

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Speaker 2: your secret.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I think mentioning it as well shatters the dream,

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Speaker 3: shatters the optics, yes, because rightfully, when you say to

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Speaker 3: someone someone beat you up, would you be with them?

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Speaker 3: They'll be like no, you know, but then the reality

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Speaker 3: could be so layered, yes, you know. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's like it confronts us as a as a people,

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Speaker 3: even individually that I never thought I'd be this person,

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Speaker 3: you know, either the perpetrator or the victim, because you're like,

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Speaker 3: that's not what I thought I would do. Because people

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Speaker 3: always think in certain situations, they definitely know how they

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Speaker 3: would act and be, and the situation happens, and usually

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Speaker 3: with domestic violence, it tends to be what you thought

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't do is what you exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I think in the movie Enough, the JLO movie,

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Speaker 2: I think they said it takes a certain number of

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Speaker 2: times before someone actually leaves. I don't know if that

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Speaker 2: was Enough or in another movie, but it takes a

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Speaker 2: number of times before someone who's experienced domestic violence actually

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Speaker 2: leaves leaves, and it's such a weird leave and leaves

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Speaker 2: as well, yeah, like you just like I'm done with

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Speaker 2: this person. So I think that's the other thing, because

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Speaker 2: they may not know do I really want to leave,

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Speaker 2: or like they think, okay, even yes, when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid, I was like, if this happens, I'm definitely

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Speaker 2: not going to sit around for this. And then now

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Speaker 2: they're like, what I'm actually thinking about staying? And it

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Speaker 2: plays on that and it kind of you know, twists you, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a little bit on yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: What what compiled us? Do you think to talk about this?

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Speaker 3: Because I mean you and I people who don't know

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Speaker 3: we obviously based this around, you know, bring up different

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Speaker 3: topics that are relevant to us, irrelevant to our existence

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Speaker 3: as black women, Zimbabwean women, African women. Yes, and this

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Speaker 3: in particular, I felt like we always had a driving

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Speaker 3: force to be like, we need to talk about this,

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Speaker 3: because we definitely have not heard it talked about, and

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Speaker 3: if so, not heard it talked about at length. Yes,

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Speaker 3: So what do you think has compiled us to date

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Speaker 3: to decide to to just come?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's questioning the society we live in,

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Speaker 2: right to be like, guys, you know, it's not normal

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Speaker 2: to live in an abusive relationship, right, Like it's I

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Speaker 2: think it's so normalized and I feel crazy even saying this,

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Speaker 2: but it's so normalized where we come from to live

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Speaker 2: in abusive and we're not just talking only physical but

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Speaker 2: like verbal, emotional, financial, financial is huge, huge, and all

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Speaker 2: that obviously domes like there's abuse in many forms, but

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Speaker 2: it's so normalized and it's kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's not supposed to be the way it is. I

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Speaker 2: saw that there was a tweet the other day about

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Speaker 2: someone saying, you know, parents telling their daughter, girl child

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Speaker 2: to just hang on, like in a terrible home situation,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, yes, that's what that's literally what happens

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Speaker 2: if someone actually then builds up the courage to say

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Speaker 2: I'm not happy in this relationship. I need to leave

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Speaker 2: because of domestic violence or other other forms of abuse.

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Speaker 2: It's like, no, what have you done? How can you

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Speaker 2: make it work? It's not taken seriously, but it's actually

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Speaker 2: like it needs to be taken seriously because what it

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Speaker 2: builds is a society of violence, of perpetrators getting away

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Speaker 2: with violence, and victims having no voice and therefore being

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Speaker 2: sort of tied to these to the oppressor and the perpetrator,

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Speaker 2: and there's a we're not healing as a society. We're

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Speaker 2: not moving past this, we're not fostering healthy relate like

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Speaker 2: it just creates and then children are born into that

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Speaker 2: and then see that and then it's like these cycles

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Speaker 2: of cycles, you know, which I believe need to be broken.

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Speaker 2: That's how I feel. I don't know about you, oh

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 3: And I mean throughout the pandemic, throughout lockdowns South African particular,

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Speaker 3: there were so many girls that we saw that were

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Speaker 3: being violated. And whether it is you said, most of

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Speaker 3: it ends up being physical, but obviously it starts out.

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Speaker 3: You might not start out there at all, and it's

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Speaker 3: like you they become a clickbait or like topic of

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Speaker 3: the month or the week and you're.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh that girl, oh that story, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: And then next week is like someone else or you've

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Speaker 1: forgotten about it all, and as.

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Speaker 3: You said, is becomes so normalized and we've stepped away

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Speaker 3: from seeing it as horrific as it actually is. Yes,

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Speaker 3: you know this is not normal and we should not

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Speaker 3: take it like oh h it happens, you know, And

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Speaker 3: I feel like we're getting to that point where we

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Speaker 3: are taking it like that. Or if the guy is rich,

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Speaker 3: or if the guy is a provider. You know, you

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Speaker 3: put up with these things, you know. That's how African

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Speaker 3: Antis would have raised us. That's what happens in marriage,

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Speaker 3: you know. And it's like, I think we have always

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Speaker 3: been quite intentional with our podcast of trying to make

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Speaker 3: us question why we do what we do.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you know, we.

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Speaker 3: Can't make it a change, of course, not going to

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Speaker 3: be in your house every day telling you what to do,

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Speaker 3: but like it's a good moment to take a take

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Speaker 3: a moment to just consider like hmmm, for sure going.

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Speaker 2: Wait until too late, you know, like where where people

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Speaker 2: then tragically lose their lives because they're in these unhealthy

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, why didn't she leave. But it's like,

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Speaker 2: do we make the environment, do we make safe spaces

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Speaker 2: for these people to be able to speak up? I

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Speaker 2: mean you hear things of people going to report to

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Speaker 2: the police when they're abused or and then they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: what did you do to this to deserve this? Or

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Speaker 2: what happens in your house Jagua and you what happens

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Speaker 2: in your house is yours, like it's your business, like

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Speaker 2: when they aren't those safe spaces like wow. And to

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Speaker 2: add to that, the Zimbabwean economy and environment is very strained.

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Speaker 2: So then now people really use the power of like

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Speaker 2: I feed you, I close you, I educate your children,

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Speaker 2: or ever against And it's such a twisted, twisted.

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Speaker 1: Environment for sure. For sure.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think though, it's still prevalent in our

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Speaker 3: lives because as you said, we're religious society. We spoke

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Speaker 3: in the previous episode about how western nint week we are.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think it's it's because I mean, as

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Speaker 3: much as people say, actually it's not there, we all know.

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Speaker 1: We all know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's prevalent again because of the cycle. Like

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about, it's like growing up seeing your elders

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Speaker 2: and like their elders, your elders, and then it's it

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Speaker 2: starts to infiltrate your society because even our age group

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Speaker 2: it's happening too, So it's not like it's it's still

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Speaker 2: an abnormal thing. It continues and again, as mentioned before,

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Speaker 2: the economy of the country we come from, patriarchy is

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Speaker 2: a huge thing, a huge part of it. Man, right,

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Speaker 2: you don't challenge the man. Things like that, fear the society,

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Speaker 2: the fear that's instilled in us, and just not feeling

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Speaker 2: like we have a voice and if we are honest.

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Speaker 2: I think the domestic violence often happens against women, though

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Speaker 2: I have heard more and more of women, you know,

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Speaker 2: retaliating or acting out against their partners. You know, I've

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Speaker 2: heard of like castration, of you know, different things, but

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Speaker 2: the most common is against women. Understandably so because of

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Speaker 2: patriarchy and the hold, the chokehold it has our society.

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Speaker 2: And so no pun intended. Yeah, so I don't know,

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Speaker 2: what do you why do you think it's that way?

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Speaker 3: I think it brings the forefront a lot of the

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Speaker 3: things you've talked about, you know, classism.

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Speaker 1: So men or the perpetrator, i should say.

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Speaker 3: Will feel like they are above someone else, Yes, because

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Speaker 3: I mean to really treat someone that way, it's to

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Speaker 3: see them in some way.

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Speaker 1: As beneath you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, like I can do what I want, like to

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Speaker 3: the point where I can beach up for a pulp,

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Speaker 3: you know, like it's like I can do what I want. Literally,

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Speaker 3: So it's like, as you said, Zimbabwe is not really

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Speaker 3: in the best economic situation. So then that also becomes

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Speaker 3: about financial independence. So a lot of women don't have

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Speaker 3: financial independence in Zimbabwe, but financial dependence because if they're staying,

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Speaker 3: taking care of the kids, taking care of the household,

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Speaker 3: which then gives again a sense of ownership to people

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Speaker 3: who then decide to do this because they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: like I can do this to you, and I know

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Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to walk out of

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Speaker 3: here and survive. You know, your wounds will heal, will

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Speaker 3: call it a day, and round two, round three is

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Speaker 3: coming around the corner, you know, like it's it's like

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Speaker 3: and alcoholism, you know, not as an excuse as well, true,

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Speaker 3: but that is such a huge thing, you know, someone

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Speaker 3: literally being out of their senses when they do things

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Speaker 3: like that, and not as an excuse. Of course, it's

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Speaker 3: not to say everyone who gets drunk, you know, beats

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Speaker 3: up people. But it does definitely play a part that

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Speaker 3: things can get related and out of hand. I think

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Speaker 3: the secrecy there's also the major thing, because not that

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Speaker 3: we need to name and shame, but we need to

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Speaker 3: name and shame, like seriously, because I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: not doing something with no consequence, yes, just means that

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Speaker 3: there's what's going to happen. At the most tending You'll

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Speaker 3: come and talk to you and like, I'm sad, Arrow,

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Speaker 3: don't do that, And that's it is. So you know

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Speaker 3: the effects that it has on your kids, the effects

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Speaker 3: that it has on your neighbors. Even everyone can get involved,

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Speaker 3: depending on how you know, especially when you live in

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Speaker 3: like a high density area, people can all be like,

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Speaker 3: you know and people know about it, yeah, or you

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Speaker 3: know you have scars and all these marks on you,

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Speaker 3: or whatever the case may be. I think the secrecy

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Speaker 3: around it actually makes it even more prevalent because it's

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Speaker 3: like people.

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Speaker 2: Think they can get away with it.

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Speaker 1: They can't get away with it.

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Speaker 3: They can get away with it because the victim is

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Speaker 3: going to be ashamed to share their story, and the

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Speaker 3: perpetrator is also going to be like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry that happened, and then next week we're back

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Speaker 3: where we started.

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Speaker 2: I think two, you're so right. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: also it symbolizes a fragmented society and a society because

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Speaker 2: there's so much that's not working in the society. There's

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Speaker 2: so many things people can get away with and then

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Speaker 2: tie in the culture side of things and it becomes

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Speaker 2: even more prevalent and more normalized in a way because

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Speaker 2: there's no one holding anyone accountable. People are just trying

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Speaker 2: to live. There are no systems, there's no social service,

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Speaker 2: there's no social security there know, you know, we grew

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Speaker 2: up there was child lyne at the time, but like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how accessible it is, you know, for

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Speaker 2: people to call and say, hey, I'm being abused. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's domessic not just for the for you know, between adults,

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Speaker 2: but children too, you know, all those things.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's yeah, and there's also a victim mentality

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Speaker 3: at play where it's like, oh, you know, it's not

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Speaker 3: that bad because I get X y Z. You know,

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Speaker 3: at least I have a roof over my head. At

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Speaker 3: least I have a you know, or I did or

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Speaker 3: at the moment they do reach out to someone if

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Speaker 3: that someone's not the right person, you know, because it

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Speaker 3: takes courage to then also open up.

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Speaker 1: Your dirty laundry or air dirty laundry, so to speak.

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Speaker 3: And then if you're telling someone and then they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it happens, or it happened to me and I didn't

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Speaker 3: do anything about it, or you know, they will you

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Speaker 3: grow out of it or whatever, it can then also

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Speaker 3: make it normal, yes, because it's like, oh, okay, I

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Speaker 3: reached out to Tite and she said that she had it,

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Speaker 3: so yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: Them question to you then, Amanda, is even as we

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Speaker 2: discuss this topic, do you think we're discussing it from

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Speaker 2: a point of privilege because we don't have those existential issues.

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Speaker 2: So because that's what people will say, right, you don't

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Speaker 2: know what it's like. You know, if I don't if

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Speaker 2: I'm not with this person, I won't eat if I'm not. Like, so,

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Speaker 2: are we coming from the point of privilege of being

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Speaker 2: outside of the environment where like, you know, we are

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Speaker 2: dependent to that extent on someone and you know, if

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Speaker 2: its hits the fan, we can take care of ourselves

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Speaker 2: like we're removed.

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Speaker 3: From I think I would normally because we speak especially

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Speaker 3: on this podcasts through a Zimbabwean lens, Zimbabwean diaspora and

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Speaker 3: lens specifically, it makes it seem like we're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I got it good here, but in Australia this is

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Speaker 3: an issue too, like you know, and all I actually

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Speaker 3: think this affects all classes, This affects all backgrounds. Of course,

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Speaker 3: when you speak on a Zimbabwean thing, we're just give

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Speaker 3: you the extra layer of But even the rich people

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Speaker 3: or people who do have financial independence or companies or

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Speaker 3: can still in fact sometimes even more so. It was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you think that the partner can be like you think

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Speaker 3: you're you think you're a big tough guy.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'll show you. It's like an ego thing.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh but you know you might be seeing

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Speaker 1: oh outside these doors, but in here you were under

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Speaker 1: my foot, you know what I mean. It's like that.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like I feel like because I definitely

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Speaker 3: remember during lockdown, some people were desperately calling the helplines

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Speaker 3: like there's beyond Blue and a few here, and they

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Speaker 3: were like, I can't stay home because it's an unsafe

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Speaker 3: environment for me. So you're telling me now I had

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Speaker 3: to stay home to not get this disease. I would

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Speaker 3: rather get COVID than you know, be staying under this

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Speaker 3: roof twenty for seven with this person. Yes, we're married though,

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Speaker 3: and this is coming across the board from all walks

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Speaker 3: of life, all backgrounds, So yeah, okay, only speak about

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Speaker 3: it in a Zim lens. We could sound like we're

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Speaker 3: like huh.

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Speaker 1: But when you look at it globally.

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Speaker 3: I think domestic violence is seen everywhere all kinds.

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Speaker 2: And I think the reason why it's more prevalent. I

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Speaker 2: think this is what I was saying. In a society

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Speaker 2: like Australia, you have the help you can reach out to.

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Speaker 2: But because Zim is its own beast. Yeah, and unless

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Speaker 2: there's like some NGO, some humanitarian, yeah, you literally aren't,

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Speaker 2: like government ain't looking out for you like that.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, but sidebar.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it funny that even if people have resources, doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean they'll go for them for.

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Speaker 1: Sure, for sure, because there's fear.

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Speaker 2: There's fear that's it's associated with like oh I look

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Speaker 2: like I don't know how to control my life, or

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Speaker 2: I look like I'm weak, or.

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Speaker 1: People will just how do we get here?

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Speaker 2: How do I get here? I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: the victim. Oh, but they're a good person. Really, it's

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Speaker 2: just this.

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Speaker 3: One thing, you know, this every everyone loves him because

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Speaker 3: it tends to be the most charming.

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Speaker 1: Guys as well, let's not lie. Sometimes people are like,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean you would never do that? People

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Speaker 1: don't don't vouch for you.

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Speaker 3: They make it seem like again like even like we

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Speaker 3: ran and Chris Brown whatever, it's like, what did she do?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like that that mentality that is crazy.

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Speaker 2: How aware are you that women can also be the

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Speaker 2: perpetrators of domestic violence?

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Speaker 3: You know, I think I'm very pro feminist, so like

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Speaker 3: I I when I speak, and even in this episode,

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Speaker 3: forgive me because a lot of times I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be saying he he he he, even though I am

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Speaker 3: aware that women are and I might not always be physical,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of us you said as well, mental abuse,

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Speaker 3: you know, like manipulating someone and driving them down, and

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Speaker 3: you know that's that's quite common too.

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Speaker 1: So I think I'm.

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Speaker 3: Becoming more and more aware of it in a Zimbabwean context.

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Speaker 3: I feel like with women, most times, as you've mentioned,

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Speaker 3: it's in retaliation. Yes, so it's like, oh, you've beat

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Speaker 3: on me ten times?

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Speaker 1: Now there's eleventh time I'm going to show you.

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Speaker 3: You know, so it's just toxic, man, Yeah, toxically is

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Speaker 3: toxic all the way.

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Speaker 2: I think it's true. The why I think it's hard

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Speaker 2: for society to realize for or to fully grasp, that

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Speaker 2: women too can be the perpetrators is because we often

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Speaker 2: look at violence coming from the point of like power physically,

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Speaker 2: when it looks like, you know, because the notion is men,

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Speaker 2: you know, they gain muscle is more easily than women.

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Speaker 2: The biggest you know, this is the generalization. Of course,

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Speaker 2: so visually it's obvious like men would be more likely

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Speaker 2: to be violent and in that way, but I think

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Speaker 2: it is true to to be aware that also women

399
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Speaker 2: are also perpetrators. I can absolutely agree that it's definitely

400
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Speaker 2: mostly probably emotional and mental abuse, but I think some

401
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Speaker 2: women too violently, you know, like I told you of castrated.

402
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Speaker 2: I'm sure I've heard it in the news, getting castrated,

403
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Speaker 2: you random for like things like that, So for sure,

404
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Speaker 2: but unfortunately, I feel the scale has tipped more towards

405
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Speaker 2: men being perpetrators in general. And but all violence is

406
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Speaker 2: violence or all abuses abuse. I think that's the thing

407
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Speaker 2: that's really hard it's like there's no like, oh no,

408
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Speaker 2: but this is less there's no scale.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

410
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Speaker 2: There's no because the mental usually also mental damage is

411
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Speaker 2: so much harder to overcomes. Do heal sometimes obviously there's

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Speaker 2: tragic incidents where they don't and people lose lives and

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Speaker 2: things like that, but mental scars are much harder to

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Speaker 2: trace and to kind of understand and.

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Speaker 1: To pinpoint as well, because you don't really realize it until.

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Speaker 3: Again, like physical if someone hits you, you know, but

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Speaker 3: with mental stuff, it's like it drains you over time. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it's like damn or the gas lighting. Yeah, the gas lighting,

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Speaker 3: the narcissism, all that stuff is for the toll.

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Speaker 2: Would you say it's a deal breaker for you in

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Speaker 2: a romantic relationship domestic violence?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sorry I thought, don't mean to be laughing

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Speaker 3: about this, but yes, you know what that's also layered. Yes,

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Speaker 3: because I've definitely been courting situations before.

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Speaker 1: People think it's my husband. It's not my husband. It's

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Speaker 1: just relationships.

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Speaker 3: Where you get in a heated argument, you get so

428
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Speaker 3: heated that you know, pushing and shoving and the physical

429
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Speaker 3: stuff becomes it's too close for comfort.

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Speaker 1: You know, you do it once, you do.

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Speaker 3: It twice, it's like, oh, okay, you know when you're

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Speaker 3: trying to you know, especially if you're with someone who

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Speaker 3: shuts down in an argument, because you know, as they're

434
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 3: walking away, like don't walk away and obviously grab their

435
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 3: arm or we grab their you know, and it's like

436
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: this can escalate. And I think it's happened to me

437
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: in a previous relationship before, where I've been.

438
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Like who am I and what is this? And what

439
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: am I accepting?

440
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: And you know, the first time when you apologize each other,

441
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 3: you're full of stories.

442
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: We never do it again. Then the second time.

443
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: It's like, okay now, and you know, like this is

444
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 3: and obviously and in no way my victim shaming and

445
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 3: saying people aren't strong enough for anything like that, but

446
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: just for me personally, it was a wake up call

447
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: because like, now I can't do this, Like I'm not

448
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 3: built for this, Like I'm not going to allow myself

449
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: to But I think it's also because of this background

450
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: I've had, where I have seen it in previous relationships

451
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 3: from other uncles, auntser I've always thought not for me,

452
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: you know, So I think the moment I saw even

453
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: a little bit of it. I just it's done. Deal

454
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: no for me, whether I know the escalation can be quick.

455
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 3: You know, I have seen it happen.

456
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: So for me personally, definitely, it's a deal breaker. When

457
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: it comes to the physical side. The mental stuff is

458
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: where it's tricky. But I think, I yeah, man, I

459
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: think it's sucked in before you even realize, and because

460
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: a lot of it breaks down your sense of self.

461
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: It's like me, is it him? You know?

462
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: Is that questioning like who am I? Like?

463
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: What what did I do?

464
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: Am I? Okay?

465
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 3: And then that stuff because it's mental as well, it's

466
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 3: like is it on purpose? Does he not realize he's

467
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: like this? Is he a victim also of a circumstance?

468
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: You know?

469
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 3: Is a narcissist born a narcissist? Or do they become one?

470
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: So these are the questions that can't really go to

471
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: therapy for this. So I think.

472
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 3: For me the physical is definitely yes, but the mental

473
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 3: is where it starts to get tricky. Because I would

474
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 3: I allow a bit more grace than I would with

475
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 3: physical I allow a bit more grace with the mental

476
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 3: stuff because I'm like, okay, maybe he doesn't even realize

477
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 3: that he's gaslighting me because that's how he that's how

478
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 3: Maybe that's his fight language, maybe that's his you know.

479
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: So then I think, okay, can therapy work through this?

480
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: You know? And does a person show a desire to

481
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: change and make strives?

482
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

483
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah, exactly exactly.

484
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: And what about for you?

485
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: I Yeah, it's a no for me too. I think

486
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: similar to you, I've grown up with domestic violence in

487
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: my home around me, So for me, it's a no no. Actually,

488
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: like anything that triggers like close to I'm very easily triggered.

489
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 2: And I think I know what I experienced growing up

490
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: and seeing that and family and and just it was

491
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: so twisted, like I think it's too close to home

492
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: for me to be like I can sit with this.

493
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: I think almost in the extreme, I was like, you know,

494
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 2: like some people repeat what they've grown up with and

495
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: then like I would like, oh hell, you know to

496
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: the no no so anything, it's like oh my gosh.

497
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,239
Speaker 2: You know. So I've had to catch myself too to

498
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: be like it's normal for people to get angry. It

499
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: doesn't mean they're going to attack.

500
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 4: You see now, So okay, you know, like it's like

501
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 4: you get upset but does that mean you're going to

502
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: attack somebody or you hate somebody, or you're going to

503
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 4: be vile towards someone, And.

504
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: You know it's a natural emotion. Now, it doesn't mean

505
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: so I would like want to shut down and run

506
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: away like immediately, Yeah, do you get what I mean?

507
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 3: So I completely get.

508
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: It's a very layered thing for me. So I think it's.

509
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: Do you see it in yourself, like you being the perpetrator?

510
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: I think it could easily because I'm a very opinionated person.

511
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: I'm very like strong minded, and so you know, I

512
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: have to catch myself and a lot of things to

513
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: be like, oh am I being you know, too harsh

514
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: or too demanding, and not just even to others, but

515
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: within myself. Do you get what I mean? Like you

516
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: to start to be like too hard on myself, like

517
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: oh you're being this or whatever those mental voices like

518
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: we're talking about like mental and emotional pieces is a

519
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: different ballgame because then you start doing it to yourself

520
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: in some ways, So you have to catch yourself like actually,

521
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: you're fine, it's not the end of the world. Actually,

522
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, man, it's so so layered, and I think

523
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: for me it's I'll have to say no. And I think,

524
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: like you said, because I was thinking about any human interaction,

525
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: there will be disagreement and misunderstanding. Right, No one is perfect.

526
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: I'm not perfect. Nobody is perfect. But I think it's

527
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: the cycle, this thing of cycles, this thing of not

528
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: wanting you to get better. That's where I have I

529
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: take issue if that makes sense, Like, yeah, where you're

530
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: not trying to resolve, find a constructive way to work

531
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: through things, and it doesn't have to be anything huge

532
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: or dramatic, but it's like, how do we constructively work

533
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: through things? But I think a lot of the time

534
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: we as people don't know how to manage our own feelings,

535
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: our own emotions, and then that coupled with the situation,

536
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: so it just becomes like a like a melting part

537
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: of just a lot.

538
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, I.

539
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: Mean, to be fair, we say these things, but when

540
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: in the situation you don't. And that's the major as

541
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: we to tie back to what we said in the

542
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 3: beginning of the episode, that's one of the things that

543
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: keeps its prevalent because people think they know what they're

544
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: going to do, yes and say they're going to do that,

545
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: and then do Because I'm just sitting here hearing you speak,

546
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 3: and I thought, you know, if myself just decided to

547
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 3: be Mike Tyson, no run for.

548
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: Wrap, you know, it wants to tossle with me, like

549
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: oh what I do?

550
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: Like I was just literally thinking, and especially now with

551
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: the added layer of motherhood, yes, the added layer of would.

552
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: I literally break my home because of that? Would I?

553
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: You know? Would I? Would I be like one punch,

554
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm out here?

555
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: Or is it like ah, okay, I forgive you, but

556
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: don't do it again? Like now, it's like, yep, a

557
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: question you have to really And I don't think we

558
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: truly we can sit here on this pod and go

559
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 3: back and forth. I don't think we can ever truly

560
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: know the answer.

561
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: You don't know till you know, as in, until you.

562
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: Decide to my ear like Mike Tyson, I will not know.

563
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: If I would be gracious enough to forgive him you

564
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: be like.

565
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: Me, you know, so true, it's one hundred percentury, like

566
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: we feel like we know.

567
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: Oh hell.

568
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: And I think that's also been the tough part because

569
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: I've seen strong women in my life and been like,

570
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: oh but I never thought you you know what I mean?

571
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: And so that's where it's really showing make that judgment. Yeah,

572
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: And I think that's what it needs to be talked about,

573
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: because it's really just like yo, man, like there's no

574
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: formula for I can live with that, Like there's no

575
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: formula of who who is not susceptible, who's who's.

576
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's no gauge as well of was that

577
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: or why not? Yes or not? You know, has he

578
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: been chipping away at this person?

579
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: He's never done this before, so I just gonna let

580
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: it go, Or he's never done this before, so I'm

581
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: definitely leaving, Like is it.

582
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Like yeah, you don't know.

583
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: So so.

584
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 2: But again, I think it's important to talk about it

585
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: because it's like yeah, yeah, and to create a safe

586
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: space for those for those around you. So yeah, Which

587
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 2: brings us to what advice would you offer to someone

588
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: experiencing it, witnessing it domestic violence and abuse? How would

589
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: you What would you say?

590
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: Definitely, when it comes to the physicality of it, I

591
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: it sounds so, you know, I just I would definitely

592
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 3: say to leave that that's a place where you are safe,

593
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: find a place, yes, yeah. But then the question then becomes,

594
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: do you leave the relationship or you're just leaving the

595
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: the space.

596
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

597
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 2: Because some people then say, for example, especially with religion,

598
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: they say marriage is not to be broken, right, And

599
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: then some people counter that with okay, but you make

600
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: sure you are safe space and then ask for counseling,

601
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: like with a mediator, like not a lot, like yeah

602
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: what I mean?

603
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, for sure, some people say that and.

604
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: Can you move past it because next time he wants

605
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: to be intimate with you or he raised his hand

606
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: too quickly?

607
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: Are you going to jump every time?

608
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: Every time?

609
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, you know, you're dodging here, like seriously. So

610
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: it's it's like, and we make light of this because

611
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: these are the questions you really will be asking yourself.

612
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: So I find that I'm probably ill advised to advise

613
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: anyone because it's such a personal thing and it's such

614
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: a case by case thing that it's like I can

615
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: have a blanket thing of seek help, you know, seek

616
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 3: a shelter, seek advice, go talk to someone, and all

617
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 3: those things are true.

618
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: But I think it's a decision you yourself have to

619
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: make within yourself. As you said, you ca it the

620
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: movie enough and there's been other movies made. It's never

621
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: really from the first time someone leaves and cleaves a

622
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: lot of times.

623
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 2: You know, it takes many many, it takes many Yeah,

624
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: and I think really this is a discussion and you know,

625
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: to find out what resources actually are out there to

626
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 2: help people who are experiencing you know, some form of

627
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: domestic viole. And also I think what we can do

628
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: is also be for someone we know who's experienced domestic violence,

629
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: like what kind of friend do we want to be?

630
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: I think that's more where I can even try and

631
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: offer advice as opposed to someone who is experiencing it,

632
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 2: because I don't know. I'm not in those shoes, and

633
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: it's easy to much easier said than done. But for

634
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: those around or who know someone who is experiencing domestic violence,

635
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing is to make them feel safe, supported,

636
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: that they can talk about it, that they don't need

637
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: to take it on themselves, you know, like that it

638
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 2: diminishes who they are, and seek help for them, you know,

639
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 2: because it's such an even when it's violent, it's also

640
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: really mental, you know, and support and also be ready

641
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: and prepared that the person will go back and don't

642
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: about to.

643
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: Say that yeah that well, how how do you think

644
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: you would treat the person, the perpetrator obviously the victims,

645
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 3: your friend you talk through she's said she or yeah,

646
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 3: it's had to go back.

647
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 2: How would I treat you?

648
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: Well? Then?

649
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: I think you know. My thing is always to hear

650
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: someone out. I've always been someone to be like, let

651
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: me hear your perspective. And one thing about advice, you

652
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: can never tell someone how to live their life. You

653
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: can only give them your show concern, show your like,

654
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 2: I'm concerned that this could happen again. I'll be here

655
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: for you, of course, but please no, like, please know,

656
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: I'm always here for you. I'm concerned it could happen again.

657
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: Is you know, is there any way we can work

658
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: around this until you know things settle that? Do you

659
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: get what I mean? Like you have to offer to

660
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: say you you don't deserve, you are worthy, you don't

661
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 2: deserve this kind of experience. However, I will support you

662
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 2: and I'm here. And that's a hard thing for us

663
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: humans to do, is to support and be there for

664
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: someone if you feel they made a decision contrary to

665
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: what you think, yeah they should.

666
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or what you think is stupid quote unquote exactly,

667
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: I think for me, I've experienced it once where unfortunately

668
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: the person the perpetrator was the friend, And that was

669
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: even a hard conversation to have because it was like

670
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 1: I never saw this side of you.

671
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

672
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: And then it's like, do you also need help?

673
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 2: You know?

674
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 3: And obviously it's like, yeah, I do. And obviously it's like, oh, yeah,

675
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: I went out of hand. I will never do that again.

676
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 3: I can't believe I even did it, Like this is

677
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: I'm in shock and all those things I probably wanted

678
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 3: to hear so that I can feel like, Okay, you're.

679
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: My friend is so terrible, yeah, psychopath.

680
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: But it's hard because.

681
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 2: And do you think that is the duty of a friend,

682
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 2: if you know your friend is the perpetrator, to call

683
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: them out on.

684
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: Yes, I think you and me call out people by nature,

685
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 3: so it's easy. Someone who isn't confrontational, it's a bit harder.

686
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: But I think it's our social duty because yes, today

687
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: maybe it's a fist, but tomorrow, maybe your homie could

688
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: be killing someone like literally, you know, using fists or whatever,

689
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 3: but they could literally just that one punch could change everything. Yeah, yeah,

690
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: And I wouldn't want to have been in that situation

691
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 3: where I said nothing, it's a hard conversation to have.

692
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: The reception is not going to be. But I do

693
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: think especially once it gets the levels where it's our

694
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: to the open, it happens in front of you. I

695
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: think that very first moment is because because you set

696
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 3: that boundary.

697
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: Right, like this is not right.

698
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: And I think it is so confronting because it fights

699
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: against all those things we talked about at the beginning

700
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: of the episode, the behind closed doors that happens in

701
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: their relationship. Let's not mess with that, all that stuff.

702
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 3: But I think you're only doing humanity a service and

703
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 3: even the person themselves, because people can be rehabilitated and

704
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 3: say I used to do that and now they don't,

705
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: so I've worked through it, or I'm a victim of

706
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 3: a cycle of abuse from my father, from my grandfather,

707
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: from you know, so knowing that that people can change,

708
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: if you do believe people can change, then you do

709
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: owe it to the person to speak up, because they're

710
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: not going to change without you speaking up.

711
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: It's true, is fine with me acting acting like that?

712
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: You know?

713
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's always good to put yourself in

714
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: the position of someone else. So, for example, if you

715
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: found yourself in an abusive relationship and you knew your

716
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: abuser's friends all were aware of it and did nothing

717
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: like wouldn't that trip you up? Like I'd be like, hey,

718
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: hold your person, hold your homie, you know what I mean. Like,

719
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: so that's also another way. It's not easy, of course

720
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: it is hard, but ha, we got to do better

721
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: in society. Like this thing of hands off is just

722
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 2: not not healthy at all. It hasn't served us as

723
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: a people, it will not continue to serve us. And

724
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: I think everyone in everyone deserves to live and grow

725
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: up in a home or a space where they feel safe,

726
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: will stop Like it's I believe it's a basic human

727
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: human right. And you know I can, from personal experience

728
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: say to you the journey to move past the cloud

729
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: of domestic violence is a long, tedious and as a child,

730
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: when you are fumbling with your emotions and how you

731
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: feel and dealing with life, and then all of a sudden,

732
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: this huge thing is dropped in your lap and you

733
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: don't even know like how to process that, you don't

734
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: have those tools. There was no one to speak like, yeah,

735
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: it's insane. I don't know how else to put it.

736
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: So sure, everybody. Everybody deserves to grow up in a

737
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 2: safe space and to feel loved and to feel welcome.

738
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: Of course, it's normal to have disagreements. Of course, it's

739
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: normal to you know, Nazi I to e. Because we

740
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 2: are human and we're all different and have from viewpoints.

741
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: But domestic violence is not normal and should not normalized.

742
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: No, not at all, And we need to have good

743
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 3: language around disagreements because it doesn't have to escalate, Yes,

744
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 3: it literally doesn't. That part, to me is a choice,

745
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: you know, because you do have a moment where you

746
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 3: can be like, oh my emotions are getting the better

747
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 3: of me, let me pause, and then to let me

748
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: pause and then to let them get that far. Some

749
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: people have it in them. They will never do that,

750
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 3: they'll always check themselves. And some people don't. And the

751
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 3: ones who don't need to be conscious of that and

752
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: find ways and strategies in and around that, because.

753
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: That ain't the way to do it.

754
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 2: To do it for sure, any helpful resources that one

755
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: can reach out.

756
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 3: To, there's definitely a few, and we're gonna probably compile

757
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 3: a list and make sure to add them onto our

758
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: socials when this episode airs.

759
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: And in the episode notes for you.

760
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 3: A lot of them, of course, unfortunately are women centric,

761
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: but that's just the way, as Rumby has eloquently explained,

762
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 3: it is just the way that the scales were tipped.

763
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 3: But having said that, a lot of them are also

764
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: help lines, so I'm sure even men can reach out

765
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 3: to them, but when it comes to shelters and stuff,

766
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: it tends to be women. But there's help out there,

767
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: and even just having your friend to talk to you,

768
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: obviously being quite specific about your friend.

769
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: Hopefully people will listen to this episode.

770
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: If you are going through a difficult time, you are

771
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: welcome to reach out to us and you can try

772
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 3: to connect you with any resources, but that's a decision

773
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: that you would have to make on a personal level.

774
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: You do deserve better.

775
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: As Ruby said, yeah, I know that was a that

776
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 2: was a very deep, deep topic and we hope we

777
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: added some value, brought up value to you our listeners.

778
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: So our ZIM shout out for this week on a

779
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: much lighter note, Amanda, Who's shout out for.

780
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 3: This week ZIM shout out this week is Munwawa. I'm

781
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 3: pretty sure we've all seen his skits. I'm pretty sure

782
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: he got us all through the pandemic, just yeah, a

783
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 3: lot of seeing Zimbabwe and also you know, making it

784
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: on the UK comedy scene is very, very exciting, and

785
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 3: he's always quite quick with his Yeah.

786
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 2: His turner around time, his.

787
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 3: Turnaround time, and he gets it. He always gets it.

788
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 3: And we love the creativity, we love the songs, we

789
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: love the personas, and all we can do is say,

790
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: keep going. We know this is not like he's just

791
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 3: gonna rise and rise because chalent is evident.

792
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

793
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

794
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: One of my favorite skits if you haven't seen it,

795
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: was after Rihanna announced she was pregnant by ASAP and

796
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 2: then drake that response I know right.

797
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: I was.

798
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: So good, so talented. Really he's great. So shout out

799
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: to and yeah. This brings us to the end of

800
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: this episode. As always, please, especially with these topics, please

801
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 2: hit us up. We're on Instagram at its laird, We're

802
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: on Twitter at its laired pod. Email us It's lad

803
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: pod at gmail dot com. Please submit your comments, questions.

804
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: We will be talking about this in our final episode,

805
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: just you know, sharing and responding to you. So shout

806
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 2: out to our loyal listeners, to everyone who's been writing,

807
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: is like, when's the new season or when's the new episode?

808
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: You guys really keep us going, Like who would have

809
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 2: thunk the world opened up, but we're still here, so

810
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 2: thank you so so much, and we'll see you again

811
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: on the next episode.

812
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 3: Bye bye rem bye Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

813
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: Oh no no no