1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 2: Well, we're all debriefing about the events of the weekend 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 2: at Bondi Junction. How we respond in these situations? How 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: should we respond? What can we learn from what has happened. 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: Scott Taylor is a security expert. He's trained alongside the 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: world's leading security experts, including the formerhead of the FBI 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: Behavior Unit, Scott Heloe. Just lean into your microphone, there 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: a bit better. There we are. We're in a new 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: studio this morning. 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: And a beautiful studio it is. 11 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: Are you on the on? There we are? Scott, you 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: were in Bondai Junction yesterday and you spoke with people 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: who'd been part of of what went down. How are 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: they all going? 15 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean when you're there on site, you were 16 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: seeing people coming in. It was the first time they 17 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: had to physically reconcile with what occurred. So you saw 18 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: that they would come in and it would physically hit them. 19 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: They would stop and they'd see the crime tape around 20 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: the areas that they'd normally go on a weekend. So 21 00:00:58,920 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: I mean people are heard. 22 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: We took a call from someone earlier I thought made 23 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: a really interesting point. We talk about the heroism of 24 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: people on the day, and it's very easy for some 25 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: people maybe to feel did I do enough? But just 26 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: surviving a day like that is doing enough. 27 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: Oh ondred percent. I mean, the thing is, I know 28 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: we will talk about the heroism of the people that responded, 29 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: but for their parents to be able to under that 30 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: level of stress and duress to make some smart decisions 31 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: and to be calm and to evacuate the families the 32 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: way they did is straight courage. 33 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: When you look at the footage of what happened on Saturday, 34 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: what do you glean about this perpetrator and what can 35 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: we learn. 36 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Well compared to I suppose what would be said as 37 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: a traditional or active armed defender. Normally they are trying 38 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: to just get to as many people as possible and 39 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: trying to get as many victims as possible. But he 40 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: had some element of target selection. You'd see there were 41 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: some people he would choose not to engage with, and 42 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: I suppose, drilling down a bit further than that, you 43 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: saw when some of the males would turn around and 44 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: even just turn to face him, not be aggressive, just 45 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: put the hand up. He wouldn't even make eye contact. 46 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: So that's showing some level of awareness and target selection there. 47 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: So that's why it reiterates the point about him trying 48 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: to either target females or to people that just he 49 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: thought would not be more of a threat to him. 50 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: And we're presuming mental illness. Schizophrenia has been bandied about 51 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: a bit, but there's a lot of schizophrenic people that 52 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: walk among. 53 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: Us that don't stab people. 54 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the other thing even the presence of mind 55 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: with things like you see some of the footage when 56 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: he's on the escalator, he's got his hand on the handrail, 57 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: he's making some elements of conscious decisions there. Has had 58 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: some mental presence about the things that he's done, and 59 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: I think that's some of the other thing that's been 60 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: a bit more jolting for people about that he appeared 61 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: calm in some of the footage that we've. 62 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: Seen, because you'd expect someone in the midst of a 63 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: frenzy to not look like a normal, calm human. 64 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's correct. And the thing is the whole process 65 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: that occurs and with the response processes that we talk 66 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: about as well. We say, in these type of circumstances 67 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: that you want to try and we go through an 68 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: escape hotel and the whole process of it that is 69 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: slowing down people's access to get to more people, and 70 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: because that is traditionally what will happen. And yeah, like 71 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: I said, it was just different behavior than what you 72 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: would expect from that type of frenzied or crazed attack 73 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: if you do. 74 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: Come across a similar situation. Because a lot of people 75 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: are thinking, how to ever go back to a shopping mall? 76 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: What should Is there something we can be thinking of 77 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: to be useful? 78 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean those three words escape, hotel and in 79 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: that order. And from the escape point of view, I 80 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: suppose what we would say is a sape, whether it's 81 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: for a firearm or with an edge weapon, so escaping, 82 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: staying down low, and escaping. But don't just think the 83 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: traditional exits, because for example, if this wasn't an edge weapon, 84 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: if this was a firearm, then you're going to be 85 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: thinking any exit you can, whether it's staff exits, loading docks, 86 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: staying down low and moving from cover to cover like 87 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: which is important cover so you're not being seen, but also, 88 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: depending on if it was a firearm attack, hard cover 89 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: to protect you as well. So I know it's not 90 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: the sort of thing that we would like to think about. 91 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: But the other thing I think this important is about 92 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: up being aware, situational and environmental awareness. I mean, sadly 93 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: we're just not generally aware of what occurs around us. 94 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: That's why they've got tex wild walking lanes in various 95 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: countries because people are watching their phones and not what's 96 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: around them. 97 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 3: And have you found, like I have, just people just 98 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: not engaged with they're walking around. They're just sort of 99 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: kid the other day just on his phone, just walking 100 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: across the street, and I'm thinking, you know, you're you're 101 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: not aware of anything. 102 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: But at the mall. That's the pleasure of being at 103 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: the mall. If you can leave your brain in a jar, 104 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: that's what's disappeared from this. 105 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: But I don't think you can. 106 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: Can we not live like that? 107 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: Scott, Yeah, I mean, if I suppose the way that 108 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: I would like things to be is that we don't 109 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: have to live like that. But the fact that I 110 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: think there's a key element of awareness here, and so 111 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: I recommend things like walk around with one headphone not 112 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: too so you're actually aware and of what's going on 113 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: around you look up from your devices as much for 114 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: the good relationship in dynamic if you're looking up, you're 115 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: more aware, you're seeing things going on, you're having better communications, 116 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: but you're also picking up if there's some negative things 117 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: occurring around you because you saw some times there that 118 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: I think the footage that's been shown regularly about when 119 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: the offender is going through the area and approaches a 120 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: couple of people, it's the kids that you see turn 121 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: and see first, just at the end of that frame, 122 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: before even the parents are were more aware. Wow. 123 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: So after this horrendous event, what do we come away with? 124 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: I mean, firstly, I think what we need to come 125 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: away is that the focus that under pressure some people, 126 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: that the bravery of people, and not just the first responders, 127 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the everyday person there. And probably something that's really stuck 128 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: with me and with everybody is the photo of the 129 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: father leaving with the two kids and he's covered their 130 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: eyes and ears. That's showing mental presence, not just about 131 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: let me get you out of here, but let me 132 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 1: try and protect you from every sensory element of what's occurred. 133 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: I think the other thing I think to take out 134 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: of it, like out of this, is that unfortunately, regardless 135 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: of you know, I know there's going to be some 136 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: talk about that the mental illness is that there's also 137 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: some people whose moral compass isn't aligned with ours and 138 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: that's hard to reconcile. And so as a result that 139 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: we just need to be to be present and aware, 140 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: and it's also a time that we just need to 141 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: be really supportive of each other. And I know you're 142 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: speaking to somebody later on today about that. 143 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, we do have Joe Lamble coming on who's absolutely 144 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 3: fantastic and she'll give us some tips on how to 145 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 3: negotiate stuff with the little ones at home. But Scott, 146 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: thank you for joining us. If you want to find 147 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: out more, head to prad Presadium Group dot com dot au. 148 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: Scott Taylor, thank 149 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: You, Thanks very much, great to speak with you.