1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: bunjelung Caalcutin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Strain island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's theirsday, 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: the twenty ninth of September. I'm Zara, I'm Billy. About 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 2: ten million Ausies got a nasty surprise in the middle 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: of their public holiday last week when Optics announced they've 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: been the victim of a massive cyber attack targeting their customers' 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: personal information. Sensitive info like driver's license numbers, phone numbers 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: and physical addresses had been leaked. We'll get into what 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: has happened in the week since, because boy, has there 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: been a lot and what you can do if you're 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: has been compromised. First, Billy take us through the headlines. 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 3: Treasurer Jim Chalmers has said that the government is under 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 3: no illusions about the impact that reinstating the fuel excise 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: will have the excise returned today after the previous coalition 20 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 3: government cut the tax for six months to address rising 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: cost of living. 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: The controversial Cashless Debit card has officially been scrapped after 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: legislation to abolish the program past both houses of Parliament. 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 2: Over seventeen thousand Australians will be taken off the card 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: next week. It was first introduced back in twenty sixteen. 26 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: Cuba has experienced a complete blackout after Hurricane Ian swept 27 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: through the country. Over eleven million people were left in 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: the dark from the storm, which has held wind speeds 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: of up to one hundred and ninety five kilometers per hour. 30 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 3: It is now set to hit Florida, with Americans bracing 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 3: for extreme winds, flooding and title surges. 32 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: And some good news for your Thursday, The Australian Opals 33 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: have finished a top Group B of the Women's Basketball 34 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: World Cup and have set up a quarter final clash 35 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 2: with Belgium tonight. The Oples finished group play with four 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 2: consecutive wins after losing to France in their opening game. 37 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: The Oples could be looking at a potential gold medal 38 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: match against the top ranked US on Saturday. Okay, so 39 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: Billy it turns out that once upon a time I 40 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: was an Optu's customer. I had completely forgotten all about 41 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: it until I woke up yesterday morning to an email 42 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: from them telling me that some of my data was 43 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: now floating around on the World Wide Web. 44 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 3: That is happening to a lot of people. I think 45 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: I must be one of the only people in Australia 46 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: who has never been an Optus customer. 47 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: Do you feel left out now? 48 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: I feel thankful fair enough, given this past week of news. 49 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 3: But so you said that you're a former customer. This 50 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 3: has mostly affected current customers, as I'm sure that you 51 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: can imagine. So what we know is that over ten 52 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: million Aussies are Optis customers, which is actually quite a 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 3: lot when you consider there's about twenty six million Australians 54 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: and almost all of them have had some of their 55 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: data exposed from the information that we know so far, 56 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: so it won't be a surprise that that makes this 57 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: one of the biggest hacks in Australian history. 58 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: It is a story that somehow gets worse at every turn. 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: What do we know about how the hack occurred, because, 60 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: as you said, it happened, or at least we found 61 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: out about it on a public holiday, Who carried it out, 62 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: when was it discovered? Tell me everything. 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to start with the easiest question first 64 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: of how this started. So Optis discovered and stopped the 65 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 3: hack on Wednesday afternoon last week when their cybersecurity team 66 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 3: noticed suspicious activity with their customer data. And so I 67 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: think one of the big questions we've had is obviously 68 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: who carried out this hack? And that is a lot 69 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 3: more blurry. So we know that earlier this week, a 70 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: hacker going by the username of Optis data posted to 71 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 3: forum taking credit for the hack, but we don't know 72 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 3: anything else about them. All we know is they use name, 73 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: and it's been speculated that they might have been acting 74 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: on behalf of someone else. I mean, obviously that's a pseudonym, 75 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 3: so we don't know who this is. But at this stage, 76 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 3: that's basically. 77 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: All we know. 78 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: When that forum post appeared, it was accompanied by the 79 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: personal data of about ten thousand Optis customers, so it 80 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: was basically them confirming that they do have these details, 81 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: and that included details like medicare numbers, which Optis had 82 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: previously said wasn't actually included in the hack. So we've 83 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: since realized that Medicare numbers were that data has now 84 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 3: allegedly been deleted by the hacker. 85 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: Okay, so that really shows how much this situation is evolving. 86 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: I guess what data has optis conclusively said was exposed. 87 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're really finding out new information basically every day. 88 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 3: I have a list in front of me of what 89 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 3: optis said was initially included. So it was customers names, 90 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 3: dates of birth phone numbers, and email addresses, and then 91 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: for some customers it also included addresses, ID document numbers 92 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: such as driver's licenses and also passport numbers. 93 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: It is so concerning to hear you read it out 94 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 2: like that. It just really distills how much information we 95 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: believe has been taken. That is a lot of detail 96 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: about someone's identity. 97 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. Interestingly, TDA spoke to a cybersecurity expert yesterday, Catherine 98 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 3: Manstead from A and U, and she said that it's 99 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: pretty much everything you'd need to put together one hundred 100 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 3: points of ID and that means that you could basically 101 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: spoof someone's identity with all of those identification details, which 102 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: I think is what makes this hack so dangerous. How 103 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 3: much detail was exposed Another thing that she pointed out 104 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 3: to us was that this hack is of a serious 105 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: concern to someone who might be leaving a violent relationship 106 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 3: or who has had experiences with stalking in the past. 107 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: You know, having their data available online could literally be 108 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 3: life threatening for some people. 109 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: It really could. And I mean the list of concerns 110 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 2: goes on. How has Optus responded to this well. 111 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 3: OPTA CEO Kelly Beyer Rosmarin has been in the media, 112 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 3: as you can imagine, a fair bit in the past week. 113 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 3: She started off by describing the hack as quite sophisticated, 114 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: which has been largely disputed in the days since, but 115 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 3: one of her most quoted lines from the last week 116 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 3: was that quote, most customers understand that we and she's 117 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 3: referring to Optics there are not the villains. But as 118 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: I said, this has turned out to be quite a 119 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: contentious point. The government has a slightly different view on 120 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: the whole situation. 121 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: They do, and the Minister for Cybersecurity has not really 122 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: held back in this arena at all. Can you talk 123 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: me through what Clara O'Neil has said. 124 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, Clara O'Neil, as you said, she is the 125 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: Minister for Cybersecurity in Australia, and she has made a 126 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 3: few statements certainly unambiguous about how she's feeling about this situation. 127 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 3: She's really challenged Rosmarin's claim that this was a sophisticated hack, 128 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 3: and she's described as quite a basic hack. And she 129 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: went on to say that Optis has effectively left the 130 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: window open for data to be stolen, so there's certainly 131 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: no questions there about where she's placing the blame. And 132 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: in Question Time this week, remembering it is a sitting 133 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: week at the moment, O'Neil called for Optis to provide 134 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: free credit monitoring to affected customers, which might sound like 135 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: a lot of words, but basically that means that they 136 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: would be able to check if their details were used 137 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: for fordulent transactions going forward, which Optis has now provided. 138 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: We'll be back in just a moment, but first a 139 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: message from our sponsor. Okay, so I want to zoom 140 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,239 Speaker 2: back in on the average Optus customer or previous customer 141 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: like myself, who might be stressing about their personal data 142 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: being stolen. What can you actually do if something like 143 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: your passport number, for example, has been leaked. 144 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you'll need to replace anything that's 145 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: been leaked and a lot of those personal documents like 146 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: passports and driver's licenses cost money to replace, and obviously 147 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: the next question is who's going to pay for that. 148 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 3: So in New South Wales, the state government will give 149 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: you a replacement digital driver's license and has said that 150 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 3: optis may be held to reimburse the cost of replacing 151 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: your physical license. And then in other states like South Australia, 152 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 3: Queensland and Victoria they have also said that replacement licenses 153 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: will be reimbursed. And then other states and territories are 154 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: working out agreements as well. And if you want to 155 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: replace your passport right now, you'll be paying out of pocket. 156 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: It looks like at the moment the Australian Passport Offices 157 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: website says, quote, we charge fees to cover the cost 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: of a new passport. We weren't responsible for the data breach, 159 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 3: some shadow ministers, so people from the opposition have released 160 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 3: a statement calling for the government to issue free replacement 161 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: passports to victims of the breach. So we'll see how 162 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 3: that plays out in the coming weeks. 163 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: A lot of that sounds like a lot of personal 164 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: responsibility for the individual to take. So are there any 165 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: other steps that people affected by the hack can actually take, 166 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: will there be legal ramaficas for example. 167 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: So there's one big development here on the legal front, 168 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: and that involves Slater and Gordon, and they are a 169 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,239 Speaker 3: huge law firm who really specialize in class action lawsuits, 170 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: which is where a group of people sue a person 171 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: or organization that has harmed them collectively. Now Slater and 172 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 3: Gordon have announced that they are investigating a potential class 173 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: action lawsuit on behalf of people affected by the breach. 174 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: So that might involve Uzara as a former customer, and 175 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: if successful, that could potentially see off just paying people 176 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 3: who lost ID documents and data in the hack. 177 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: I mean, for me, it's interesting because I'm pretty sure, 178 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: given that I can't remember, I must have been a 179 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: customer over seven to ten years ago, and so all 180 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: of my personal documents would have actually changed. So that 181 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 2: puts me in an interesting position where they've taken my data, 182 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: but I don't think that it's actually the most accurate data. 183 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: But probably puts you in a lucky perser. 184 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: I know, and I know that the people many others 185 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: aren't in that position. So it'll be really interesting to 186 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: see how this plays out. It's certainly not looking good 187 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: for Optus, and there's a lot of saving face that's 188 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 2: going on. It's a very good example of crisis communications 189 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: and how that plays out, certainly in the media too. 190 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: I can imagine a lot of people in PR classes right, Yes, a. 191 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: Lot, a lot. Thank you for joining us on the 192 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: Daily OZ. If you learned something from today's episode, don't 193 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 2: forget to hit subscribe so that there is a TDA 194 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: episode waiting for you every weekday morning. We'll be back 195 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: again tomorrow, but until then, have a fabulous Thursday.