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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ours. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the fourteenth of February.

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Speaker 3: Happy Valentine's Day, Sam, Thank you Zara.

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Speaker 4: Happy Valentine's Day to you. I thought we'd talk about

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Speaker 4: something romantic today. UFOs, spy balloons and the US China relationship.

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Speaker 4: Was it a harmless weather balloon or a spy in

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Speaker 4: the sky. Whatever it was, the American government had decided

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Speaker 4: enough was enough.

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Speaker 5: The American military has shot down another flying object.

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Speaker 6: In Prime Minister of Justin Trudeau announced that a US

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Speaker 6: warplane shot down an unidentified object flying in Canadian airspace.

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Speaker 5: Three in three days.

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Speaker 4: Now that the USAir Force has seen fit to.

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Speaker 2: Take out the object, we don't yet know what.

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Speaker 4: A spy balloon from China and at least three other

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Speaker 4: objects have been shot down in recent days, raising questions

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Speaker 4: about surveillance in the sky. I can tell you now

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Speaker 4: the Pentagon has ruled out any alien involvement, but it

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Speaker 4: stopped short of confirming anything else. So what does this

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Speaker 4: all mean and is Australia at risk? We'll let you

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Speaker 4: know in the deep dive. But Firs Sarah the headlines.

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Speaker 2: Governor General David Hurley, who's the representative of King Charles

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Speaker 2: the Third here in Australia, was given no warning about

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Speaker 2: the Reserve Bank's intention to change the five dollar note.

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Speaker 2: The plan is to replace the late Queen Elizabeth I's

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Speaker 2: portrait with the design honoring First Nations people. The revelation

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Speaker 2: came during a Senate estimates hearing yesterday, with Hurley's secretary

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Speaker 2: Paul Singer saying the Governor General found out about the

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Speaker 2: plan from a press release.

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Speaker 4: Areas across New Zealand have declared a state of emergency

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Speaker 4: in the face of risks posed by Cyclone Gabrielle. Prime

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Speaker 4: Minister Chris Hipkins said yesterday the least twenty five thousand

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Speaker 4: people had already received assistance due to the cyclone, adding

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Speaker 4: that the emergency illustrated the global importance of tackling climate change.

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Speaker 2: The PM of Vanawatu will commence a three day visit

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Speaker 2: to Australia today. Talks are expected to be centered on

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Speaker 2: strengthening cooperation in trade, security and climate in the Pacific.

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Speaker 2: PM Anthony Abernezi said he's delighted to be welcoming the

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Speaker 2: leader to Australia.

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Speaker 4: And the good news. Australia has won its opening match

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Speaker 4: of the twenty twenty Women's Cricket World Cup on Sunday.

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Speaker 4: They defeated New Zealand by ninety seven runs. They're now

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Speaker 4: going to face Bangladesh tomorrow before playing Sri Lanka later

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Speaker 4: in the week. Australia has won the past two T

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Speaker 4: twenty World Cups.

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Speaker 2: Sam, I learned a very interesting fact yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I want to know what it was.

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Speaker 4: Ask me what it was that you loved me.

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Speaker 2: No, it was that UFO stands for unidentified flying object.

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Speaker 3: Did you know that?

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Speaker 4: No? Wait, no, yes I did. That's what it standing for.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I didn't know that anyway.

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Speaker 2: I learned that yesterday because it's been in the news

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Speaker 2: affair bit and I always thought that UFOs were only

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Speaker 2: for aliens, but it appears that there are more serious

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Speaker 2: sides to it, and it's definitely been hard to ignore.

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Speaker 2: Let's start at the very beginning of when we first

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Speaker 2: heard about UFOs in the current news cycle.

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Speaker 4: Well, for us, it was when a little image of

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Speaker 4: a spy balloon came across our social media. It looked

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Speaker 4: like a little satellite drifting across a white orb which

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Speaker 4: is not as our podcast producer thought, the moon, but

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Speaker 4: rather it was a balloon attached to a device. So

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Speaker 4: on the second of February, the US Department of Defense

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Speaker 4: confirmed that it was a high altitude surveillance balloon that

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Speaker 4: belongs to China.

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Speaker 2: I think all of us were a bit confused when

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Speaker 2: we first started to see those images and to hear

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Speaker 2: about it. How did the US initially respond. Was it

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Speaker 2: immediately deemed a threat?

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Speaker 4: Well, by the language that the Pentagon used as soon

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Speaker 4: as the news was released, they were very quick to

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Speaker 4: establish that the balloon was traveling at an altitude above

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Speaker 4: air traffic, so not in the way of an aeroplane,

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Speaker 4: and didn't pose a threat to anyone on the ground.

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Speaker 4: But it did potentially present a different type of risk,

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Speaker 4: and that all came about in a press conference where

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Speaker 4: a senior defense official said he was confident the balloon

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Speaker 4: was forced surveillance and that it was flying over some

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Speaker 4: sites of significance for national security. When those words are used,

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Speaker 4: it's always a little bit scarier. Now, they didn't spell

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Speaker 4: out exactly what the sites of significance might be, but

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Speaker 4: we do know the balloon flew over Montana, which is

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Speaker 4: one of the locations where the US stores their nuclear weapons. Now,

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Speaker 4: China claimed the balloon was not for surveillance, but instead

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Speaker 4: it was a weather balloon that had blown off course.

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Speaker 4: An official spokesperson for China said it had limited steering

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Speaker 4: capability and deviated from its planned course. They said they

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Speaker 4: regretted the incident and would continue communicating with the US

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Speaker 4: to properly handle the situation.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so then what happened from there?

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Speaker 4: Well, last week President Biden said he authorized the balloon

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Speaker 4: to be shot down as soon as it could be

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Speaker 4: done without any risk to American lives. The balloon had

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Speaker 4: flown over North America for more than a week at

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Speaker 4: this point, but it was eventually shot down over the

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Speaker 4: Atlantic Ocean.

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Speaker 3: A successfully took it down, and I want to compliment

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Speaker 3: our aviator as we did it.

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Speaker 4: Shortly after that, the Chinese government issued a statement expressing

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Speaker 4: their dissatisfaction with what they called the US's use of

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Speaker 4: force and said they were obviously overreacting and seriously violating

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Speaker 4: international practice.

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Speaker 2: I think the fact that the two players in this

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Speaker 2: story are the US and China makes it of greater concern,

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Speaker 2: especially given the tensions that already exist between the two countries.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it goes to the bigger picture

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Speaker 4: here of how real this risk was to US security. Now.

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Speaker 4: According to a US senior defense official, whatever the blue

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Speaker 4: ball could be capturing, it wouldn't really be a huge

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Speaker 4: value add on whatever China was already able to collect

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Speaker 4: from the satellites that they have up in space right now,

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Speaker 4: And that basically raises the question of what purpose a

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Speaker 4: balloon like this would actually serve. I was doing some

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Speaker 4: digging and found out that surveillance balloons like this were

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Speaker 4: widely used in the Cold.

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Speaker 3: War, but they have it feels very Cold War ish.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but they'd fallen out of popularity due to the

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Speaker 4: rise of satellites in space. But satellites are really expensive,

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Speaker 4: and they're being threatened with a rise in counter technologies,

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Speaker 4: and then you've got balloons on the other hand, which

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Speaker 4: is super cheap and also easier to retrieve. In a

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Speaker 4: press conference, a senior Defense official did say there had

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Speaker 4: been previous balloons in US airspace in recent years, at

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Speaker 4: least three of them under the Trump administration and once

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of Biden's terms, but weirdly these were

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Speaker 4: not detected at the time, which is something the Department

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Speaker 4: of Defense says it'll be looking at. The Department also

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Speaker 4: told the world that spy balloons are part of a

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Speaker 4: larger Chinese surveillance program, which is oper for several years

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Speaker 4: and has operated over at least five continents. We also

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Speaker 4: heard reports that US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken had

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Speaker 4: postponed a visit he had planned to China last week

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Speaker 4: because he didn't want the balloon to dominate his meetings

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Speaker 4: with Chinese officials. So I guess it's fair to say

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Speaker 4: the whole situation is having quite an impact in the

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Speaker 4: two nations freight relationship.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back right after this.

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Speaker 2: It's been over a week since we first heard about

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Speaker 2: that spy balloon, and during that time we've actually heard

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Speaker 2: about a lot of other unidentified random objects in the air,

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Speaker 2: more so than I can ever remember hearing about talk

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Speaker 2: to me about what happened over the weekend.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's been another three UFO zara shutdown in the

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Speaker 4: last week, and these have been both above the US

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Speaker 4: and above Canada as well, and it has made me

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Speaker 4: think whether they've always been there and now the Department

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Speaker 4: Defense are looking particularly close for them, or whether this

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Speaker 4: is in fact a spike. But we haven't had any

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Speaker 4: official suggestion that the three new UFOs spotted since that

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Speaker 4: first spy balloon are linked to any foreign government or

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Speaker 4: connected in any way to that original spy balloon. So

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Speaker 4: let's just get into some of the weeds of it.

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Speaker 4: Last week, Biden ordered an object above Alaska to be

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Speaker 4: shot down. Have A listened to a White House spokesperson

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Speaker 4: confirming that decision adam.

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Speaker 6: An abundance of caution and of the recommendation of the Pentagon.

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Speaker 6: President Biden ordered the military to down the object and

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Speaker 6: they did. We're calling this an object because that's the

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Speaker 6: best description we have right now.

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Speaker 4: On Saturday, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said an object

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Speaker 4: was shot down over Yukon, which is a territory in

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Speaker 4: northwest Canada. The Canadian government said this was a cylindrical

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Speaker 4: object smaller than the Chinese balloon shot down in US airspace.

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Speaker 4: It was intercepted by an organization we've gotten quite familiar

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Speaker 4: with over the last week. It's called the Northern American

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Speaker 4: Aerospace Defense Command or NORAAD, and that's a joints US

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Speaker 4: Canadian organization that has the remit of defending airspace above

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Speaker 4: both countries. But just when we thought we were done

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Speaker 4: with UFOs being shot down on Sunday, another one was

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Speaker 4: being shot down over Michigan. So we're still waiting for

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Speaker 4: the Department of Defense to go and retrieve and examine

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Speaker 4: these UFOs before we're likely to know any more details.

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Speaker 2: I think it's one thing to watch these events from

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Speaker 2: AFAR and to read about them as news events, and

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Speaker 2: it's another to think about when it is in or

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Speaker 2: above the country that you live in. Do we know

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Speaker 2: of any kind of interference like the spidalloon for example?

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Speaker 4: Here in Australia, well lasi oboss so, the head of

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Speaker 4: Australia's Security intelligence his name's Mike Burgess, was asked about

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Speaker 4: this yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Is the agency aware of any intempted incursions or any

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Speaker 1: real incursions or any threats of incursions over Australian airspace

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Speaker 1: of a similar.

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Speaker 4: Device, and this is what Burgess said.

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Speaker 5: Again, I don't comment on operach noal matters. Of course,

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Speaker 5: I'm aware of the reporting around balloons and balloons allegedly

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Speaker 5: being used for spying. My experience, that's not the principle

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Speaker 5: by means which by people are spying on this country.

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Speaker 4: So ASIO definitely isn't ruling out this kind of surveillance.

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Speaker 4: But I think if we read between the lines of

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Speaker 4: what the AZEO chief was saying, it's fair to say

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Speaker 4: Australia is still at risk from foreign interference in general.

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Speaker 4: Earlier in that Senate Estimates hearing, which is where Burgess

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Speaker 4: was talking about this, Burgess spoke about the fact that

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Speaker 4: last year AZIO lowered the domestic terrorism threat level, but

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Speaker 4: that meant that espionage and foreign interference actually surpassed terrorism

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Speaker 4: as asio's principal security concern. So even if we don't

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Speaker 4: see any balloons floating through the sky, our security intelligence

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Speaker 4: organization still has a lot of work to do in

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Speaker 4: this space, and not just from China.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the daily OS.

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Speaker 2: We'd love if you could give us a rating or

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Speaker 2: a review on whatever app you're using.

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Speaker 3: Right now.

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Speaker 2: It helps new people find us and join the TDA community.

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Speaker 3: Have a great day,