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Speaker 1: If you tuned into How I Work last week, you

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Speaker 1: will have heard part one of this conversation, where I

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Speaker 1: interviewed one of my teammates at Inventium, Ali Sully, about

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, which definitely was the hardest year I've

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Speaker 1: been through in business, and certainly the hardest year our

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Speaker 1: culture has been through. Today, we are exploring how trust

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Speaker 1: was rebuilt after this very crappy year. Together, Alie and

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Speaker 1: I unpack how we hit reset. We look at the

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Speaker 1: offsite that really changed everything, the tiny rituals that rebuilt connection,

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Speaker 1: and the moment I realized that my fear of saying

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing had finally disappeared. If you've ever wondered

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Speaker 1: how do you turn a fractured team back into a

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Speaker 1: thriving one, then I think you'll find today's conversation very helpful.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals,

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Speaker 1: and strategies.

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Speaker 2: For optimizing your date.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imber. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the things that we've done differently this

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Speaker 1: year in twenty twenty five, and as you've talked about,

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Speaker 1: there were moments in twenty twenty four that were really fundamental,

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Speaker 1: you know, particularly for us in our working relationship, but

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Speaker 1: as a team. You know, one of the things I

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Speaker 1: was mindful of with you know, a slightly new combination

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Speaker 1: of people going into the new year together is that

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Speaker 1: we needed to do a reset, and we needed to

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Speaker 1: talk about what are the behaviors that we want more of,

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Speaker 1: and what are the ones that we just absolutely do

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Speaker 1: not accept anymore, like this individualism that had become the

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Speaker 1: way that some people had worked and that were so

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Speaker 1: not invent here. And so we came together for a

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Speaker 1: couple of days face to face, and that's really important

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Speaker 1: when you're a remote first team and we all work

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Speaker 1: from all over the place wherever we want. And we

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Speaker 1: had an external facilitator, which I also think was helpful,

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Speaker 1: just having someone who could be objective and help guide

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Speaker 1: us through. How was that experience for you, that reset, Like,

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Speaker 1: what were those moments where you thought, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: really helpful.

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Speaker 3: I think for me, the reflection my fear going into

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Speaker 3: that was that we were going to look to the future,

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Speaker 3: plan for the future without looking at the past. And

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Speaker 3: I think it was really helpful for us to spend

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Speaker 3: a good amount of time venting and not venting that's

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Speaker 3: the wrong word, probably just naming the elephant in the room,

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Speaker 3: because we had all carried the load and there was

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Speaker 3: some scar tissue there, so actually identifying that and then

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Speaker 3: working from that to build something else, and so I

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Speaker 3: think that was really important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember, I can't remember who was. Someone commented

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Speaker 1: on the fact that I was being very very open

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Speaker 1: about my experience for twenty twenty four, which I hadn't

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Speaker 1: been during the year, and I didn't feel safe doing that.

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Speaker 1: And also as a leader, you also you know, you

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Speaker 1: know so much in confidence that you can't share, and

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of it's always I find that there's

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Speaker 1: a fine line between and particularly now because I think

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Speaker 1: I've learned even though it's stuff we teach clients like

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Speaker 1: sometimes it just takes that lived experience to really settle

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Speaker 1: in your body and go, I need to be a

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Speaker 1: lot more open, but you know, in an appropriate, non emotional,

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Speaker 1: dumpy kind of way. I think that was helpful. I

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Speaker 1: think the choices that I made around sharing a lot

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Speaker 1: more than I had shared about my experience of the

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Speaker 1: year that had been I think was also quite helpful

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Speaker 1: in building that trust and sych safety.

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Speaker 3: And I think knowing that you know, you had made

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Speaker 3: some decisions with you'd use some strategies earlier at the

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Speaker 3: end of the previous year. That meant that when I

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Speaker 3: walked in the room, I knew that everyone was there

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Speaker 3: and was on board as well. So I think there

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Speaker 3: was that vulnerability, and your vulnerability allowed us to be

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Speaker 3: vulnerable in the room. But it was also that feeling

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Speaker 3: that when we were going through those tough times, I

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Speaker 3: didn't know who was on the boat and who was

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Speaker 3: on the rescue raft. So we were all sailing along,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't know who was about to zip off.

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Speaker 3: And I remember, sorry going in hindsight again, but that

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Speaker 3: moment where you pulled out the deal or no deal

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Speaker 3: and sat down with us around you know, are you

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Speaker 3: in or are you out? And really drew a line

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Speaker 3: in the sand that I think was such a fundamental

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Speaker 3: thing for that January offsite to go, hey, we're all

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Speaker 3: on the boat together, no one's on the lifeboat.

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Speaker 1: And for context what this deal or no deal thing was.

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Speaker 1: And I'd used it once before it invent him where

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Speaker 1: this is maybe like six or seven years ago, where

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Speaker 1: we've been through a ton of change, and I should

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Speaker 1: preface this with speak to unemployment lawyer. Don't do anything

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Speaker 1: illegal if you're a leader or a business owner. But

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Speaker 1: it was essentially in a way that was legally appropriate

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Speaker 1: giving people the option to go, look, if this is

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Speaker 1: not for you, I'll give you a like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a payout that makes sense and we can just part ways. Like,

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Speaker 1: I only want people who are genuinely here, because it's

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Speaker 1: really really hard to rebuild if you've got people that

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Speaker 1: are kind of on the fence. And I think by

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Speaker 1: January we were all one hundred percent yeah, where yes,

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Speaker 1: we are rebuilding this together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me,

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Speaker 1: that was really really important. It would have been a

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Speaker 1: much harder job to do if there was still like

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Speaker 1: a couple of people that were like, yeah, I'll wait

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Speaker 1: and see.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's other things that I think have been helpful,

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Speaker 1: and these are I think of them as more they're important,

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Speaker 1: but they're you know, perhaps more sort of not micro strategies,

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Speaker 1: but they're certainly rituals I guess that we've had in

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Speaker 1: place this year that I think have served us really well.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that we do about every

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Speaker 1: six to eight weeks, more realistically every eight weeks, is

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Speaker 1: that we have a Team Health Monitor, and this was

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Speaker 1: inspired from what Alassian do around their It might be

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Speaker 1: called their Team Health Monitor as well. I think we

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Speaker 1: call it. I can't remember the difference in language, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: it was inspired by a Lassian where as a team,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really make sense for us to do an

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Speaker 1: engagement survey because there's just not enough data and then

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Speaker 1: it's easy to identify people and the data and that

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Speaker 1: then defeats the purpose of collecting data a lot of

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Speaker 1: the time. So instead what we do is we gather

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Speaker 1: and this is almost always I think always done in

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Speaker 1: person where we will gather as a team. There are

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Speaker 1: about ten different dimensions that we go through, such as safety,

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Speaker 1: ways of working, how we communicate sort of like work

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Speaker 1: life balance, workloads, set of stuff. And with each of

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Speaker 1: those dimensions we do a thumbs up, although there's also

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Speaker 1: a two thumbs up score as well. There's like a

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Speaker 1: thumbs horizontal which is neutral, and then there's a thumbs down,

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Speaker 1: which is we've got a problem. And at the KNA three,

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Speaker 1: like rock paper scissors, we all give our actions and

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Speaker 1: then we talk about it and like if it's all good,

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Speaker 1: we don't spend that much time talking about it. But

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Speaker 1: where where there's a mix of like neutral and thumbs down,

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Speaker 1: we then go through okay, how are we each feeling,

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Speaker 1: because often we'll have, you know, different experiences or perceptions

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Speaker 1: of the same dimension, and then at the end of it,

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll prioritize what are two or three actions that

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Speaker 1: we can take. What's that experience been like for you.

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Speaker 2: I've loved it.

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Speaker 3: It's incredibly simple, And what I love about it is

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Speaker 3: that with engagement surveys any sort of serve the nuances

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Speaker 3: in the question are never really talked about. So what's

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Speaker 3: one score for another one person maybe different for another

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Speaker 3: on very different reasons based on the nuances of the question.

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Speaker 3: So when we started introducing this and we talked about

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Speaker 3: our work life balance and what came up was a

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Speaker 3: real mixture. And what it turned out to be was

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Speaker 3: that some people were thinking about it as far as

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Speaker 3: I've got balance to go to pick up my kids.

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Speaker 3: Other people it was around the four day work week,

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Speaker 3: so everyone was looking at it completely different. And I

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Speaker 3: saw that across this year with lots of different questions

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Speaker 3: where we started really picking into okay, why is that

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Speaker 3: so and taking action straight away, So rather than a survey,

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Speaker 3: coming back and then analyzing results, coming back to the

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Speaker 3: team with the results, discussing it and losing all this time. Well,

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Speaker 3: I love about it is that we make decisions on

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Speaker 3: the spot around it. We can be there right there.

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Speaker 3: And I think one of them that came up earlier

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Speaker 3: in the year was around I've forgotten what the actual

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Speaker 3: category is, but it's really about that celebration and recognition.

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Speaker 3: And I had been a bit on the fence with that.

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Speaker 3: Everyone else felt great, and I thought, we don't actually

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Speaker 3: have a mechanism. We do pump each other up a lot,

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Speaker 3: but we don't have a mechanism in place that is consistent.

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Speaker 3: And so then off the back of that came out

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Speaker 3: values and the Values Awards and a few other things

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Speaker 3: that came out of that.

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Speaker 1: I think that's such a good point, and particularly for

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Speaker 1: the leaders listening that leading a team within a much

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Speaker 1: larger company, where you might go, well, I'm just at

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Speaker 1: the mercy of the engagement surveys that HR or the

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Speaker 1: PNC team put out once a year, or maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of times a year. It's something that any

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Speaker 1: leader of a team can do to get an immediate

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Speaker 1: check on what's the vibe of the team right now,

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Speaker 1: and it's also in their control to take a media action,

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Speaker 1: because I think that has got to be one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest complaints and problems with engagement surveys, where you

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Speaker 1: do the survey and then maybe two months later you

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Speaker 1: may or may not get told what the results were,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe a month or two after that something

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Speaker 1: might change, Yeah, but generally it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And the decisions are made often in the ivory tower.

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Speaker 3: So when you're all in the room and you're understanding

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Speaker 3: the stories and narratives around what's happening for that person

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Speaker 3: or those people, and then ideating around how we can

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Speaker 3: solve for that in the room with those people, you

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Speaker 3: get real impactful strategies out of it, rather than those

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Speaker 3: assumptions that often happen as a result of the engagement surveys.

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Speaker 1: Certainly, something that I think about a lot is meetings

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Speaker 1: and our team meeting on Monday because it's the only

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Speaker 1: scheduled time that we have as a team to all

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Speaker 1: gather synchronously so live, and something I will often do

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Speaker 1: is we record those meetings because often they might be

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Speaker 1: you know, one person that can't attend and we're a

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Speaker 1: Microsoft organization, and so we use teams to record it,

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Speaker 1: and I will often look back over the image, like

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Speaker 1: if you have a team's premium subscription, it will analyze

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Speaker 1: who spoken when, and I'll often look back over that

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Speaker 1: to see what percentage of the time was I speaking

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Speaker 1: in these meetings, And when I see that it was

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Speaker 1: majority me talking for me, that is a flag to go, oh,

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Speaker 1: I am not sharing in our face synchronously. I've obviously

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Speaker 1: defaulted to information sharing mode, which we tell all our

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Speaker 1: clients don't do that. Meetings for discussion and debate, they

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Speaker 1: are not for sharing information. And I'll often then like

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Speaker 1: lean into LOOM more so. LOOM is like screen and

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Speaker 1: video recording software that is wonderful for asynchronous updates, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really mindful of that. I think something else that

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Speaker 1: we do in our team meetings that is really small

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Speaker 1: and sounds I don't know, it can sound quite simplicity,

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Speaker 1: but I actually think it's helped a lot is that

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Speaker 1: at the top of our team meeting agenda. And I

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Speaker 1: think Jem put all these questions in are just these

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Speaker 1: very random, interesting questions that we all answer as a team,

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Speaker 1: like what's your experience of that being like yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if one stands out one of those questions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's been so interesting, you know, talking about

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Speaker 3: skills that we wish that we had, or just this week,

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Speaker 3: we were talking about, you know, if you could change

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Speaker 3: jobs into a different job for the week, and we

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Speaker 3: had you know, red bull athletes and we had you know,

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Speaker 3: just such an insight and you know, we've got people

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Speaker 3: that are living in coastal locations that don't like water,

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Speaker 3: Like I never would have known that, You're right, So

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Speaker 3: just some random things that come out, and it's been

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Speaker 3: such a good way to really quickly get to know

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Speaker 3: not the person as the job title, and you know,

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Speaker 3: we often find out about their family and things like that,

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Speaker 3: but really the things that make people tick and the

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Speaker 3: things that are unique about them, you know that I

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Speaker 3: think really does build that connection.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's funny, like if someone would have told me

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Speaker 1: that that would make a big difference, because I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's so I feel like a COVID cliche to go,

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Speaker 1: let's just start with some random question. But I'm always

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Speaker 1: like really pleasantly surprised as to what comes out. I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking what other cause I'm sure listeners will be thinking. Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell us some of the questions. Shall we see how

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Speaker 1: many we can remember?

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Speaker 2: Gosh, there's been some good ones over that time.

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Speaker 1: I think we've had superpower, Like what superpower would you have?

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Speaker 1: There's also one around if you were going to be

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Speaker 1: arrested for a crime or that was a time one

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Speaker 1: would it be? That was?

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Speaker 3: Yes, leaving the binting things into the bins of other

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Speaker 3: people's bins? Yes, Yeah, Oh gosh, there's been You know,

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Speaker 3: if you were a billionaire tomorrow, what would be the

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Speaker 3: first unnecessary thing you'd spend money on?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Lots of Gosh, we might have to add some of these.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'll try to remember to put some in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Yeah. It's easy to talk about culture

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Speaker 1: when everything feels light and fun, but the real test

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Speaker 1: comes when things go wrong. Coming up, Allie and I

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Speaker 1: go deeper into how we rebuild things, from redefining trust

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Speaker 1: and role clarity to spotting the small moments that prove

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Speaker 1: a team has changed. You will hear about our Christmas outfits,

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Speaker 1: tough feedback, and the one conversation that flipped everything from

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Speaker 1: blame to learning. If you're looking for more tips to

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Speaker 1: improve the way you work, can Live. I write a

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Speaker 1: short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have

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Speaker 1: helped me personally. You can sign up for that at

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Speaker 1: Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot Com. Something else that

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Speaker 1: I think is useful is that we I think we

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Speaker 1: do reflect quite a lot as a team, and I

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Speaker 1: know something that we're planning to do I think in

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks time is a post mortem. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we earlier in the year we had someone

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Speaker 1: you joined the team, and it felt like a kind

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Speaker 1: of fly by the seat of your pants induction because

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Speaker 1: we're all quite busy, and that's why we've you know,

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Speaker 1: we've hired someone and I know that they've, like you know,

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Speaker 1: they've reflected on what worked, what didn't work. And so

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Speaker 1: what we're planning to do is having a post mortem,

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Speaker 1: which I love because it's the chance for us to

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Speaker 1: really deliberately dissect what will we do differently next time

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Speaker 1: in a way that isn't about pointing blame, but just

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Speaker 1: unpacking the process.

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Speaker 3: You've just sparked my mind with how far we've come

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Speaker 3: as a in relation to the onboarding process.

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Speaker 2: And I remember a moment where.

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Speaker 3: I gave some feedback and thought, gosh, that didn't hit.

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling terrible about how I went about that. I

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Speaker 3: was flustered and moving from meeting to meeting, and I

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Speaker 3: actually called you and went, I don't know what to do.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I just got a vibe.

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Speaker 3: It didn't hit. What can I do? And even that moment,

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Speaker 3: that action, compared to where we were a year ago,

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Speaker 3: where I probably would have called one of my confidence

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Speaker 3: and gone, oh, well, that was a complete disaster. I

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Speaker 3: was actually able to get some advice and then you said, well,

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Speaker 3: go back to them and say, gee, that felt like

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Speaker 3: it was a flop. What can I do better? And

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Speaker 3: I love that about how we work and reflect.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious for you allie. What have been some of

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Speaker 1: the signs that things have changed.

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Speaker 3: So one more recently is we had the Christmas in

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Speaker 3: July celebrations and we all came together in our Christmas outfits,

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Speaker 3: so we all decided it was not forced on people.

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Speaker 3: We all decided as a team, yes, this is what

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Speaker 3: we want to do. So even that in itself last

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Speaker 3: year we had the same conversation and most of the

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Speaker 3: team decided, no, I don't want to do it.

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten that yeah, so everyone was on board.

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Speaker 2: Now. I remember when I rocked up. I had a.

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Speaker 3: Christmas outfit that I'd had made that had everyone's photo

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Speaker 3: on it, and I rocked up and you were standing

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Speaker 3: in front of me as a tree.

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Speaker 2: Christmas and Neo in.

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Speaker 3: A full suit with Christmas fit and Hannah. Hannah walked

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Speaker 3: in and she said, oh, I've really underdone it. And

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Speaker 3: I loved that moment for her in that we all

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Speaker 3: had a choice that morning of like do I choose

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Speaker 3: safety or do I just lean into the fun And

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Speaker 3: we all grabbed it two hands and just leapt in.

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Speaker 1: I think something that like we've always talked about at

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Speaker 1: Inventum that we assume positive intent. But I think they

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Speaker 1: just got to a point where that was like I

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Speaker 1: think people sometimes assumed the opposite, Yeah, whereas I think

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Speaker 1: now and I'll often hear it in conversation, you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of like there's always a choice in terms

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Speaker 1: of how you can interpret something like whether it be

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Speaker 1: you know, a piece of feedback or an email or

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Speaker 1: an opinion, Like you've always got the choice to assume

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Speaker 1: like were they just having a bad day but they

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Speaker 1: did mean positive intent? Or are they just really deep

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Speaker 1: down they're just a bitch. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: has genuinely changed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think getting to know each other and being vulnerable

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Speaker 3: with each other to really speak up, and that has

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Speaker 3: allowed us to get to know each other on a

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Speaker 3: personal level. And I say that in the it's not

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Speaker 3: all you know, coffee and cakes at lunchtime can't getting

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Speaker 3: to know you. It's like really getting to know the

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Speaker 3: core of the person as good and the intentions being good.

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Speaker 2: So I think we all.

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Speaker 3: Know who's in our team and we know, you know,

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Speaker 3: rather than if someone says something a bit off, it's

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Speaker 3: more of a signal are they okay, rather than it

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Speaker 3: being oh.

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Speaker 1: Wow, they're very awful person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I also think one thing that's changed a lot is

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Speaker 3: the clarity that we bring to our roles. When there

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Speaker 3: was complete chaos, there was an opportunity for us to

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Speaker 3: reinvent how we work together, what energizes us, and again

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Speaker 3: get to know each other about what we bring. School wise,

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Speaker 3: if I think back how I was working the middle

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Speaker 3: of last year, I was really doing a lot of

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Speaker 3: things that I wasn't even employed to do, a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that really deenergized me. And I remember having

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Speaker 3: this moment with you and talking about the energy circles,

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Speaker 3: and you say, well, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing that. Give that bit to me.

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Speaker 3: And we've reshuffled and jigsawed around, and I think now

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Speaker 3: a really good sign of our culture is that we

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Speaker 3: know our lane ways, and whilst we're in our lane ways,

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Speaker 3: we know that we've got the skills and the energy

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Speaker 3: now to help each other when we need to step

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Speaker 3: across into the other lane ways. So that's certainly something

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Speaker 3: that I've seen that's really different. All the jigsaw puzzle

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Speaker 3: pieces fit together into a high performing team rather than

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Speaker 3: the jagged edges that don't quite fit.

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Speaker 1: I know, for me, one of the signs that, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: things have really changed is that that fear of cancelation

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Speaker 1: that I had last year is just no longer here.

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Speaker 1: And it's ironic because I am much more open and

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Speaker 1: honest about things and you know, my experiences than I

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Speaker 1: was last year. And I'm like, that's fine, Like I

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Speaker 1: won't get canceled for this because I know my team

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Speaker 1: really understand where I'm coming from and that I do

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Speaker 1: have the best intentions.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Like there have been a couple of times where sometimes

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Speaker 1: on how I work where I am dipping into the

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Speaker 1: inventium experience and certainly my experience. I sometimes feel a

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Speaker 1: bit nervous that I've made a bad judgment call on

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Speaker 1: what I should include and what should just remain on

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Speaker 1: the cutting room floor. And I know I've run a

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Speaker 1: couple of episodes by you, Ali and by someone else

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Speaker 1: on the team, and I've had no qualms in like you,

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Speaker 1: hearing the whole cut and then being able to just

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Speaker 1: trust your judgment to just go yeah, maybe just leave

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Speaker 1: that bit out, which I know for me has been

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Speaker 1: really valuable. But it's also just like such a sign

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Speaker 1: that the trust is there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think all of us take much more personal

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Speaker 3: risk with each other, even on our personal WhatsApp now

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Speaker 3: equal contributions and fun and games on there that maybe

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Speaker 3: we weren't doing as much last year as well.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: I was even thinking about your birthday gift that Hannah

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Speaker 3: and I plotted behind the scenes. Anyone that doesn't know

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Speaker 3: Amantha doesn't necessarily want grand Final tickets to the AFL,

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Speaker 3: but I mean, you know, I won't shut you off

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Speaker 3: from that, but we thought we could we do that's

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Speaker 3: really going to make her think, And we came up

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Speaker 3: with it kind of design this beautiful VIP experience at

402
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Speaker 3: the AFL, knowing we bought a present that you actually

403
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Speaker 3: would like. And I said to my husband last night,

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Speaker 3: that is such a sign of the psychological safety in

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Speaker 3: our team that I would never have done that last year.

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Speaker 3: I was still a bit worried about you opening it

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Speaker 3: up and thinking we didn't know you.

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Speaker 1: Had seen eight thousand dollars Grand Final ticket email in

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Speaker 1: my inbox Happy birthday.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but the fact that we can have fun like that.

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Speaker 3: And again, if you didn't know that we were all

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Speaker 3: acting with positive intent, you would have thought, what have

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Speaker 3: they done?

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Speaker 2: But you knew straightaway, didn't you idea?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I kissed myself. Yeah, that was very,

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Speaker 1: very funny. I think something useful to end on because

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Speaker 1: I imagine, you know, there are probably listeners hearing these

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Speaker 1: stories and going, my team's great, but thanks for the lessons.

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Speaker 1: And then I imagine there's probably other listeners that are like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like my team is where you guys were

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Speaker 1: out last year. Where do I even start to change?

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Speaker 3: What would your advice be bringing the team along for

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Speaker 3: the ride like you did with keeping the conversation open

424
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Speaker 3: rather than stepping in and solving it for the team,

425
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Speaker 3: getting them involved and accountable for that.

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Speaker 2: The role clarity knowing where we step together and where.

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Speaker 3: We have it on our own, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: really really important. But also building that trust with each other,

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Speaker 3: and that's such a hard thing to do, but it

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Speaker 3: does start with that vulnerability of getting together and also

431
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Speaker 3: knowing there's no one going to be backstabbing you or

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Speaker 3: jumping off the boat. So I really think that clarity

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Speaker 3: around you know, are you in the team or are

434
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Speaker 3: you out? And what does it look like if you're out?

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Speaker 3: And what do we do about that? And being really

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Speaker 3: clear about that, although you know there's very very hard

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Speaker 3: to do as a leader, it's a the yucky position

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Speaker 3: to be in, but to really draw the line as

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Speaker 3: a team around what behaviors do we accept and what

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Speaker 3: happens if we see behaviors that we don't accept, and

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Speaker 3: how do we speak up about that?

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Speaker 1: I love those things. I think the one thing I

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Speaker 1: would add is I think for leaders, it's really hard

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Speaker 1: to build trust unless you're willing to take an emotional risk.

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Speaker 1: I think if you're not willing to do that, it's

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Speaker 1: almost impossible to build trust. And I think about that

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Speaker 1: session that we had in August around the well being survey,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of felt like that was probably and

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize it at the time, but that was

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Speaker 1: a bit of a fork in the road moment. You know,

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Speaker 1: our relationship probably could have gone down different paths, you know,

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Speaker 1: had I not made that choice to just be really

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Speaker 1: open with where I was, which was not in a

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Speaker 1: great place. So my advice would be to start to

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Speaker 1: take those small emotional risks where you can, because I

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Speaker 1: think they really pay off. Yeah, Allie, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me today getting behind the mic. I've

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Speaker 1: loved this conversation and I just think there are so

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Speaker 1: many people that will just really value the things that

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Speaker 1: we've talked about, make them feel like they're not alone,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully give them some practical ways through whatever they're

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Speaker 1: in right now.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Trust isn't rebuilt by policies or posters. It's rebuilt by

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Speaker 1: people taking small emotional risks again and again. The next

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Speaker 1: time you feel tempted to hold back in a tough conversation,

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Speaker 1: try what we learned at Invent Him, Lead with honesty,

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00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: and invite others to meet you there. If you missed

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Speaker 1: part one of my chat with Ali, go back and

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00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: take a listen. There is a link in the show

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Speaker 1: notes because it's where the cracks first appear and the

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Speaker 1: lessons begin. And if you're new here, follow How I

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Speaker 1: Work for more honest conversations about what it really takes

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Speaker 1: to lead, especially when things get hard. If you like

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00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: today's show, make sure you hit follow on your podcast

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00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I

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Speaker 1: Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people,

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Speaker 1: part of the Cooler Nation