1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: This is the Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coulson, 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: where Luke and Susie and this is the podcast for 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: the time, poor parent who just wons answers now. 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: And sus when it comes to the memories that you 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: have as Amma or Dad. One of my favorite home 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: videos of any that we've ever had is one where 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: I was at the park with Tyson. He was probably 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: about four at the time, and I had the camera 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 2: on him up the top of a hill and he 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: came running down as fast as he could. The next 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: thing I know, the camera goes flying because he's hit 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 2: me in the biggest rugby tackle ever and together we've 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: both gone rolling down the rest of the hill and 14 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 2: it was just laughter and it was just it was 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: the best little moment ever. But sus in today's modern world, 16 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: the big hit and the rolling down the hill apparently 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: is not allowed anymore. 18 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: Sus Well, it all depends on where you are. Doctor 19 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Justin Coulson from Happy Families dot Com, that are you. 20 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit devastated because it was you who 21 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: raised the flag and said, Susie, there are places where 22 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: you're not allowed to roll down ell anymore. And this 23 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: horrifies me. 24 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 3: So. A little while ago, there was this article in 25 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 3: the paper in the Adelaide Advertiser. The Mount Lofty Botanic 26 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: Gardens in the Adelaide Hills, or you know, the beautiful 27 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: city of Adelaide, has erected signs that request that people 28 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: not roll down the hill, that parents restrain their children 29 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: from rolling down the hill because well, somebody might get hurt. 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: Does you specifically say restrain your children? Because that means 31 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: I can still roll down there unless my parents are there. 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 4: Your kids are not allowed to roll down the hill, 33 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 4: but you are, Yeah, that's right, unless accompanied by an adult. 34 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: No, they were. They're pretty serious about it. We do 35 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: not want The article basically said that the sign basically 36 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: said we're banning children from rolling down the hills here 37 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 3: at our botanic gardens. It's the fun police, really, isn't it. 38 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: And the reason for it is the sign says for 39 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: your safety and that of others, please do not engage 40 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 3: in sliding or rolling downhill. 41 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to assume I'll give them the benefit of 42 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: the doubt and assume that there was an incident that 43 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: we're not aware of. 44 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 3: The article talked about how somebody was rolling down a 45 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 3: hill and they took out somebody's legs and that person 46 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: broke a bone as a result. 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, so there was an incident that 48 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: led them to this. Is this in their mind they're 49 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: protecting the public. 50 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know there's a car accident every day. 51 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: People still drive cars. 52 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: Yes, so there can be some nitpicking on this. Kids, 53 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: I mean, kids run into poles all the day, and 54 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: yet we continue having poles around the school. 55 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: Children have broken arms that way, Adults on their phone 56 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: walking down the footpath running the poles every day. 57 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: Monkey bars. My daughter fell off some monkey bars and 58 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: broke her arm. We didn't go and sue the people 59 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: that had the monkey bars, for goodness sake. She's a kid. 60 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: She was singing on the monkey bars. She broke her arm. 61 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: That life, Life happens. 62 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: So this is the interesting thing, is what we understand 63 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: is most of us think this is the litigious society 64 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: over the top. Like something happens, you worry about the 65 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 2: insurance costs and whether someone's going to sue you, because 66 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: that's the world we live in. So therefore you ban 67 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 2: everything that could lead to that. And we know that 68 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 2: that feels ridiculous to us. But at the same point, 69 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: it is the society that we're in. But what do 70 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: we lose if we start to get so scared of 71 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: doing what was normal fun because of the risk that 72 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: possibly something might happen where someone might suit. 73 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 3: Helen Keller said, life is a daring adventure or is nothing. Yeah, 74 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 3: I think we lose adventure. I think we lose thrill. 75 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: We lose the opportunity to be curious and to explore. 76 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 3: The International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health had 77 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: a research article published not too long ago, and it 78 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: says that children need risky play, which includes things like 79 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: climbing or jumping from great heights or a quick tangent. 80 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: Before I tell you what the research found, my kids love. 81 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: You know, when you're walking along a footpath and there 82 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 3: the wall beside the path, the kids can walk. My 83 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: kids love doing that, and every now and again my 84 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 3: wife Kylie will say, I want them to get down. 85 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: That's not safe, it's risky. And dads are always almost 86 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: always the ones that say, doubt, be fire, let them play. 87 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: I just look at my kids now, say look, you 88 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: can go up there, but if you fall and break 89 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: both your legs, don't come running to me. But you know, 90 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 3: we're talking about things like unsupervised play where a child 91 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 3: might actually take a wrong turn and get lost or 92 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: be out of sight of parents for more than two 93 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: or three minutes at a time. Do you remember we 94 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: all seem to survive not being able to be texted 95 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 3: by our parents every fifteen minutes. So where are you 96 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: being able to ride a bike fast down a hill? Yes, 97 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: sometimes we skin knees and even lose teeth. Sometimes it 98 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 3: can even be worse than that. But what the research 99 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: has found in this particular journal was that when we're 100 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: doing all this stuff, playing with knives or playing near 101 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: a waterfall or the top of a cliff, you know, 102 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 3: and who hasn't gone for a bushwalk to the top 103 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 3: of a hill and seeing how close to the edge 104 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 3: that they can get when they're a kid, And also 105 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: sort of did. 106 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: You just stay playing with knives? 107 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? And hammers and nails? 108 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: Okay, back to the waterfall, Back to the waterfall. 109 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 4: This conversation is very uncomfortable. Who hasn't run with sisson? 110 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 3: The research has found that when kids are allowed to 111 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: do these kinds of things, and these were the kinds 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: of things that were on the list, Okay, I'm not 113 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: making this up and just being intentionally provocative. What they 114 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 3: found was that children who do these things number one, 115 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 3: and I think this is helpful. I laugh every time 116 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 3: I think about this one. They increase their reaction time 117 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: in detecting risk. 118 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: Oh yes, that's good, but yeah, that. 119 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 3: Is actually important. I mean it sounds really funny. Oh great, 120 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 3: my child, But that means that they're going to recognize 121 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: what's risky because they've had some experience with risks. 122 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: Because you don't understand the potential consequences until you've seen 123 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: a few of the consequences, so you've experienced the pain. 124 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 2: It's like the touching of the hot plate scenario that 125 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: we use as an example. Once they touch it once, 126 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: like now, you don't want them to leave their hand 127 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: on there, But once they learned that that's hot, they're 128 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: less likely to go near it again. 129 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: And that's kind of what the researchers have identified. Usually, 130 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: the children don't have to hurt themselves to work out 131 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 3: what's going to hurt them and what's not. By the way, secondly, 132 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 3: they found that the kids who are allowed to take 133 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: risks usually have high levels of self esteem, which I 134 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 3: thought is really interesting. If we keep them withholding opportunities 135 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 3: for risk from our children, they don't grow in self esteem. Now, 136 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: let's extend this into growing boys in particular. We've removed 137 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: all of the rights of passages that boys' rights of 138 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 3: passage that boys used to go through to become men, 139 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: and we're dealing with dramatic problems in terms of self 140 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: esteem and identity for our young men. Our young men 141 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 3: aren't being allowed to take the kinds of risks that 142 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: they once took. And I'm getting a bit nostalgic and 143 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 3: romanticized about the good old days. But listen to the 144 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 3: third critical thing that happens when we remove risk from 145 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: the environment for our children. The researchers found that they're 146 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: less likely to take risks related to sex and drugs 147 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: as adolescents if they're allowed to take risks in other 148 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: parts of their lives, like riding their bikes downhill, playing 149 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: with knives, playing near the top of mountains, near cliff edges, 150 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: and that kind of thing. It seems like giving our 151 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: children the opportunities to experience risk actually makes them more 152 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: wise about risk. 153 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: Wow, and you think about it, it makes complete logical sense, 154 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: Like to me that that would follow on when you 155 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: say it, it's not something unnecessarily new, but I go. 156 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: Obviously that makes sense to me. 157 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: But when you've got a child teuing on the edge 158 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: of a cliff, the potential consequences of them getting it 159 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: slightly wrong are huge. Where do you know what's a 160 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: risk worth letting them take versus one which is just 161 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: too full on? 162 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: You know, if we're really worried about our children being endangered, 163 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: we should never put them in a car again, because 164 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: the most likely place for a child to die is 165 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: in the car in a car crash. In terms of 166 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 3: working out the balance, I don't think that there's an 167 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: easy balance, except that we want to get our children 168 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 3: outside and exploring and playing, and when they're going to 169 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: do something that's a little bit dangerous, we should just 170 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 3: pause and say, I think they'll be okay, and if 171 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: they're not on nearby so that I can help, And 172 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: if I'm not nearby, they've got a phone, or their 173 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 3: friends's got a phone, or there'll be somebody nearby. We 174 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: just have to trust that they're going to be all right. 175 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: Recently we had an overseas holiday and it was such 176 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 3: a treat and my wife and I had our eldest 177 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: daughter with us, sixteen years old at the time. She's 178 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: about to turn eighteen. So it was a little while ago, 179 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 3: and we were riding in the rocky mountains. We hide 180 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 3: some mountain bikes and we were on this mountain bike 181 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: track and I thought I was going to die. Now 182 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: I'm an experienced cyclist. I love to ride my bike, 183 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: and I thought I was going to die. This track 184 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: was so scary and it was on the edge of 185 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 3: a cliff, and my poor wife Kylie was riding right 186 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 3: behind me, and she was really, really nervous, but our 187 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: sixteen year old was having the time of her life. 188 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: She just thought this was amazing. She loved it. She 189 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: thought it was great. She didn't think that it was 190 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: risky at all until we got to the bottom and 191 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: she's like, there was a couple of really close ones there. 192 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 3: Did you see how far down that was? And well, 193 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 3: like ah, and she's like, that was so awesome. 194 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: It's funny because because justin you don't strike me as 195 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: the reckless, adrenaline junkie stereotypical Ossie mail. 196 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 4: That was like, yeah, let's take some. 197 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: Huge risks, but you're talking so positively about almost some 198 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 2: of the same attributes that we might put onto that 199 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 2: kind of ossy day, Like it's. 200 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 4: A significant thing. 201 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: You talked about the rights of passage, This allowing a 202 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 2: boy to be physically expressing themselves in the world. Is 203 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: that what you're really talking about, like that physical nature 204 00:09:59,120 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: versus girls. 205 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: Well, I suppose so, But again we need to treat 206 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: them that it's still not okay to hurt people. Boys 207 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: can be boys, but they've still got to be respectful 208 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 3: and going through rites of passage doesn't mean being disrespectful. 209 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: That means learning what it is to be a man. Look, 210 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 3: all of this comes back to rolling down hills, right, 211 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 3: Is it okay to roll down hills? You could ask 212 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: the same question, is it okay to walk the kids 213 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 3: to school? I don't have any Aussie data on this, 214 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 3: although I'm pretty certain that it has been collected, but 215 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 3: I couldn't locate it in time for our interview. But 216 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: I found an English study that showed that eighty six 217 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 3: percent of kids between the age of seven to eleven. 218 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 3: Eighty six percent of kids used to go to school 219 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 3: without an adult in the nineteen seventies today twenty five percent. 220 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 3: That's true. That's huge. There's a study that I found 221 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: in Canada, eighty one percent of parents, eighty one percent 222 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: of parents percentage of parents with kids between ten and twelve, 223 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 3: are worried about stranger danger. You know, the odds of 224 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: your child being abducted one in fourteen million. And yet 225 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: we've got this overblown sense of my children going to 226 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 3: be okay. They're going to be okay. They can roll 227 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 3: down hills, they can ride bikes, they can go out 228 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 3: with their friends and not come home until whatever time 229 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 3: you decide is curfew plus thirty minutes or an hour, 230 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 3: and they will usually be okay. I know that sometimes 231 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: they're not, but the times when they're not are so 232 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: infinitesimally small. Obviously, I can say that because nothing awfuls 233 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 3: happened to one of my kids. Yeah, and I'm sensitive 234 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 3: to sometimes things that are bad do happen. But I 235 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: still believe that we are way too overprotective. Let them 236 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 3: roll down the hill for crying out, Lad, You've got 237 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 3: me all. 238 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 4: I've seemed up too well. 239 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: Two things that I do want to go in a 240 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 2: slightly offshoot from this. First of all, I like to 241 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 2: say I think Susie as a mum has grown in 242 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: this area so incredibly well, like at the start of 243 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 2: us having kids, you were so protective and so female 244 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 2: with boys. And I say that none of that not derogatory, 245 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: but it's not less risk taking, the research, the research. 246 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 4: But just the. 247 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: Other day I discovered that it was it was mum 248 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: that put our six year old up on the roof 249 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: of the house to get the balls down. It's the time, yeah, 250 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: And I went, oh, my goodness, Like that just showed 251 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: incredible growth, because there's no way that five years ago 252 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: if I would have thought that you would ever be 253 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: the one, you know, the first one to put our 254 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: kids up on the roof. So I just think it's 255 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: wonderful that you're you're, you know, stretching yourself in this 256 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: area because I know instinctively it wasn't you know where 257 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 2: you were naturally at. Here's the thing though, justin because 258 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: I'm naturally the risk taker in life, but I'm also 259 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: the one that has been naturally more free to let 260 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: our kids explore and potentially get hurt. I've always feared, though, 261 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 2: what if I'm the one who put them up on 262 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: the roof and they fall down and break their leg? 263 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: How would Susie be with me? If I'm the one 264 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: who took the risk as the parent and it turned 265 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: out bad. 266 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: I don't know why you're asking me should soon, But. 267 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 2: I mean, because it's not about us relationships generally that 268 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: there is. Is there a risk from mom and dad 269 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: or the two carers that one who allows the risk 270 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: to happen. It puts a friction in the relationship because 271 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: something did. 272 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 3: Go Sometimes that tension will exist, and other times they'll 273 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 3: look one another and say, you know, this could have 274 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 3: happened to anyone, And it just depends on the people 275 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: in the relationship. I have a wonderful friend who his son, 276 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 3: sixteen or seventeen years old, ran and dived into the ocean, 277 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 3: didn't realize that there was a sandbar. He's a paraplegic. Now, 278 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: you know, we don't have to be putting our kids 279 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 3: in risky situations for awful things to happen. You can 280 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: step off a gutter and break your ankle. Life does 281 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 3: this stuff to all of us in different ways. And 282 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: because I mean, life is so fragile and things can 283 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 3: happen in such remarkably bizarre ways. And then you know, 284 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 3: you hear about a child who falls from a third 285 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 3: story window, and survives, or you hear these stories that 286 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 3: just nothing short of miraculous, and you think, how does 287 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 3: this work? I just think maybe I'm wrong, and I'm 288 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: willing to accept that I could be wrong. But we've 289 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: got to let our kids take risks. How else will 290 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 3: they ever learn. It's kind of like the parent who says, 291 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 3: I want my child to be to be responsible. I'm 292 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: not going to let them have any responsibility until they 293 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: can prove that they can be responsible. Yeah, well no, 294 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: You've got to give them responsibility so that they can 295 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 3: prove that they're responsible. And when they get it wrong, 296 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 3: you say that was not responsible. Try again. I'm going 297 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: to give you the responsibility again. Try again. And it's 298 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 3: the same with risk. You did something, you got hurt. 299 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: What can you learn from it? How can we make 300 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 3: this work better. There's a place in Norway or Finland. 301 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: It's called Pulpit Rock. It's about a thousand vertical meters 302 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 3: above the lake and there's this rock there and the 303 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: authorities have rammed this iron I guess bar into the 304 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: rock and you can see photos when you google the 305 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 3: images of it, you can see photos of pe people 306 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: who are literally hanging one thousand meters above the water, 307 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: off the edge of this rock. There's nothing under them, 308 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: there's no trick photography here and they're just hanging onto 309 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: this rock. And I thought to myself, Australian authorities wouldn't 310 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: do that. Yeah. True, we would have fences and we 311 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: would have signs and warnings and all sorts of things 312 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: to keep people as far away from the edge as 313 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 3: we can. Now, there is value in staying away from 314 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: the edge. Some risks are not worth taking, but we 315 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: know from research that our kids do better when they're 316 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 3: allowed to take appropriate, age appropriate, developmentally appropriate risks and 317 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: explore the world as a result. 318 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful, doctor Justin calls them from happy families dot 319 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: com dot au. Shall we go roll down hill? 320 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 4: Yes, let's all do it. 321 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: And when you finished rolling down that hill, you can 322 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: jump online to happy families dot com dot au where 323 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: you'll find more resources on how to improve parenting or 324 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: just find some answers to some questions you might have 325 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: about parenting. That's happy families dot com dot au. Or 326 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: if you're interested in having doctor Justin calls and speak 327 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: at your school, church or community group, you can find 328 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: out more at Justinculson dot com.