Speaker 1: Ordinarily Speaking, you see a two hundred and forty three
Speaker 1: game veteran, four time champion of the Perth Wildcats who
Speaker 1: you don't see sub abuse, domestic violence, and an adult
Speaker 1: without a childhood time.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. I'm
Speaker 2: narrowly meadows. Today's guest is Greg Higher. Greg is a
Speaker 2: recently retired champion of the National Basketball League, having won
Speaker 2: four titles with the Perth Wildcats. What he has achieved
Speaker 2: is astonishing given what he has overcome in life. A
Speaker 2: self described troubled team, Greg was going down a destructive
Speaker 2: path but managed to turn his life around. This is
Speaker 2: a story of unbelievable resilience as Greg explores what it
Speaker 2: means to be a man. Please know this chat discusses
Speaker 2: some very serious issues. If it is triggering for you,
Speaker 2: please know there is help out there beyond blue dot org,
Speaker 2: dot AU, Lifeline one three, double one, one four or
Speaker 2: one eight hundred, respect I just a couple of places
Speaker 2: you can go. I thank Greg for his candor and
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks for joining
Speaker 2: me on your podcast, Greg. I wanted to start by
Speaker 2: asking you, in the broader context of your life. What
Speaker 2: has basketball meant to you?
Speaker 1: I think it's everything really from my livelihood now with
Speaker 1: raising two beautiful children of my amazing wife. Basketball was
Speaker 1: a thing that brought us together in a weird way,
Speaker 1: like we were in the same grassroots organization. It's made
Speaker 1: me who I am in terms of what I do
Speaker 1: now off the court. Without the profile of a purf
Speaker 1: Walkeets player, full time NBL champion, I don't think would
Speaker 1: be in a position to be able to deliver the
Speaker 1: workshops that we're doing now in Western Australia. And I
Speaker 1: think it's as a troubled team. As an adolescent, basketball
Speaker 1: was that sort of sanctuary as a sixteen seventeen year
Speaker 1: old kid really struggling with life. That was that one
Speaker 1: thing that was constant in a weird way at that time.
Speaker 1: As a sixteen year old kid, I didn't really look
Speaker 1: at it going oh, basketball was going to teach me
Speaker 1: these valuable life lessons in terms of how to deal
Speaker 1: with plenty of challenges in your life. But I knew
Speaker 1: that one thing was always going to remain constant. I
Speaker 1: was going to have a coach that cared for me.
Speaker 1: I had some peers that would Jerry Thing in their
Speaker 1: power to make sure that I was okay, and then
Speaker 1: I was able to get on the court and escape
Speaker 1: for whatever that time was. Knowing that I had an
Speaker 1: hour an hour and a half that whatever was going
Speaker 1: on in my life, you know, I could just focus
Speaker 1: on the game of basketball, something that I love doing.
Speaker 1: And I think, moving past, you know, down the track
Speaker 1: ten years later, that remained constant whilst there was maybe
Speaker 1: things happening around my life. I think that sort of
Speaker 1: dictated the way I played. Quite emotional, maybe a bit
Speaker 1: aggressive at times, definitely aggressive, but yeah, it was that
Speaker 1: moment that I could get on the court and put
Speaker 1: it everything that was happening in my life on the
Speaker 1: court as well.
Speaker 2: I spoke to your brother in law and best mate
Speaker 2: and best man, Brad Robbins, and it's interesting that you
Speaker 2: just said it that way because he said, as your
Speaker 2: teammate at the Perth Wildcats, it was every rebound, every
Speaker 2: loose ball was actually almost you saying I'm not going
Speaker 2: to end up like that.
Speaker 3: That's not going to be me.
Speaker 2: Is that a fair assessment?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I had this massive chip on my
Speaker 1: shoulder my whole career, just even the standpoint of when
Speaker 1: I was a development player. There was no even coming
Speaker 1: up from WI. I was cut like and it's not
Speaker 1: that Michael Jordan, absolutely no doubt, like high school career
Speaker 1: and then come back, and I would have loved the salary.
Speaker 1: But I remember starting and I thought I'd be given
Speaker 1: a gig and then getting my first professional contract. It
Speaker 1: was six thousand dollars for the season worked out being
Speaker 1: three dollars twenty an hour. But I loved it. I
Speaker 1: love that environment, but it was that no one expected it.
Speaker 1: I felt like every opportunity was for me to stake
Speaker 1: a claim. It wasn't about me getting more minutes. It
Speaker 1: was about me keeping my spot on the team. And
Speaker 1: even six years later vice captain, I still felt like
Speaker 1: every single game was an opportunity to prove myself.
Speaker 2: And was that symbolic of how you were brought up
Speaker 2: as well and representative of that the way you played.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. My style wasn't pretty like I
Speaker 1: can say that, And you know I had a few
Speaker 1: moments now retired Matt Neilson, huge mentor of mine. You know,
Speaker 1: once you retire and you have those moments where you
Speaker 1: sitting down and you share a few red wines or
Speaker 1: you know, sitting on the boat, you know mad Mondays,
Speaker 1: and you have that reflection, those real special pieces, and
Speaker 1: you sort of look back at those games where not
Speaker 1: only did they change the game, they sort of changed
Speaker 1: the season. You know. Then there's a few things I
Speaker 1: look back at. One game, I was literally I slept
Speaker 1: for two hours over two days, like I was so sick,
Speaker 1: Like I remember the only food that I could eat.
Speaker 1: I was staying at a Melbourne hotel. I ate these
Speaker 1: giant chocolate freckles to cost twelve dollars fifty play room service.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I had no sleep, I had no energy.
Speaker 1: I remembered like thinking I just can't, like there's no
Speaker 1: way I can play.
Speaker 3: And I got on stomach barg Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like I don't know what it was. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I literally like slept. I finally got sleep like thirty
Speaker 1: minutes before we left, and I was like said to
Speaker 1: dam I just get me up and I'll have a
Speaker 1: shower and I'll get to the game. And still like
Speaker 1: I was like just couldn't move. And I went through
Speaker 1: my Sammy return. I hit three threes as soon as
Speaker 1: I got on the core, broke the game open. And
Speaker 1: that was like this, we sort of separate ourselves throughout
Speaker 1: the pack. You know, on the eve of trying to
Speaker 1: make the playoffs, We're down by eight points against Adelaide
Speaker 1: my last season, where I had announced my retirement and
Speaker 1: I'm about to get a screen. I see Harry Frowling,
Speaker 1: a youngster from Adelaide thirty six's and he's setting the
Speaker 1: screen and I was actually livid that I hadn't been
Speaker 1: given the court time to get on the court, and
Speaker 1: I literally was just like screwed. There's a moment in
Speaker 1: this game that we could you know, I can run
Speaker 1: with this and I can set the tone and just
Speaker 1: sort of be like, you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: back down. I'm going to sort of make a statement
Speaker 1: We're not taking any shit. And I did it, and
Speaker 1: in doing so, I smashed my ac joint. You know,
Speaker 1: for the last eight weeks of my career, I was
Speaker 1: getting jabs time. I'm still struggling with it now, like
Speaker 1: before games, just to be able to play. But it
Speaker 1: was that moment where I just ran through Harry, then
Speaker 1: ran through Harry again, and the crowd got up off
Speaker 1: their feet. Things would going on berserk, and we ran
Speaker 1: with it. We changed our seats and we stealed a
Speaker 1: playoff spot and we end up winning a championship. And
Speaker 1: there's those moments that they're not pretty. Everything was hard,
Speaker 1: Like I look at back at and I think that's
Speaker 1: why I appreciate you know, every single person, and by
Speaker 1: us yourself, Like what's those moments in your life that
Speaker 1: he cherishes, the things that you work so extremely hard
Speaker 1: for that you never really were expected to achieve. And
Speaker 1: I think that's been my life. I look back as
Speaker 1: a youngster, I couldn't dribble basketball, like I literally had
Speaker 1: to go see a specialists because I had poor hand
Speaker 1: eye coordination. They might say I still have poor hand
Speaker 1: ole coordination as a professional athlete, but like even then,
Speaker 1: I remembered like I had to go these classes in
Speaker 1: a random place and morlly it was like you go upstairs.
Speaker 1: It was a warehouse and they would throw me the
Speaker 1: ball and I still remember vividly now like they would
Speaker 1: throw me the ball, the ball drop, I'd clap and
Speaker 1: that was me. Like this intensive course for six months,
Speaker 1: Like that was me?
Speaker 2: How old were I was.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, literally four or five? Like yeah, And so
Speaker 1: even for two years I kept going like to what
Speaker 1: that is my motor skills were so underdeveloped, Like I
Speaker 1: mean I look at my two children now and my
Speaker 1: little fellow's going around and shooting, and you know I
Speaker 1: look at other kids like they're riding bikes. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: motor skills were so poor. It was like a point
Speaker 1: where they were like okay, my parents are like yeah,
Speaker 1: they've identified this, and being my mum being Eastern European,
Speaker 1: it's still not even like that was like you know
Speaker 1: that scope, what where do you go out and see support?
Speaker 1: So it was just randomly like a doctor's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's a bit behind. And it's bizarre that
Speaker 1: that's in the in the app. That was my makeshift.
Speaker 1: Like I played professional sports for ten years when I
Speaker 1: couldn't even really catch a ball at a young as a
Speaker 1: young kid.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to the beginning. We call you
Speaker 2: Greg High, but that's not actually your name, is it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you spoke to Brad Robins, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you would have loved this. Yeah, so my name's Gergelay
Speaker 1: High and one more time, Gerglay Higher. Now in Hungarian
Speaker 1: it's Gergay And obviously you can expect that when you're
Speaker 1: in primary school. Primarily like kids ruthless and so obviously
Speaker 1: say there there's two words, and obviously we're progressive as
Speaker 1: a community. But people are like are just like saying
Speaker 1: that all the time, or I would get scared. You know,
Speaker 1: the Royal Corps first day and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: h's in the middle of the names and they're coming.
Speaker 1: I would like put up my hand like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: me before my name's even being announced, because like I
Speaker 1: knew they would, yeah, wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Just reflecting on it. It's like you've got a school.
Speaker 1: I know. And it's even now like I'll get out
Speaker 1: my license and people were like, oh, like something and
Speaker 1: they'll look at me and then like they're like, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's my real name. I'm Hungarian. So yeah, quite quite interesting. Greg,
Speaker 1: It's just like this Aussie like, yeah, no worries, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that was going up. Was a bit unique, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Your parents were illegal immigrants.
Speaker 1: Crazy story. They immigrated from Hungary. Obviously back then it
Speaker 1: was a case of you know, there wasn't the come
Speaker 1: in here visa laws like whatever. It was literally process
Speaker 1: they want to leave the country. They were still reeling
Speaker 1: from World War two, the effects like everything, you know,
Speaker 1: the country was so behind the times and they sort
Speaker 1: of said, all right, here's a deal. Immigrant to Canada,
Speaker 1: you'll be fine, or immigrate to Perth and Australia. Basically
Speaker 1: similar situations were in Perth. You'll just have to stay
Speaker 1: in a community for a month where basically all immigrants
Speaker 1: will come across, which was the KGB which is known
Speaker 1: as Condola, Grouine and Bouga. And so that was me.
Speaker 1: I'm a proud KGB boy and it was the best
Speaker 1: time of my life because you can imagine there were
Speaker 1: so many kids in the same similar situation. My mum's
Speaker 1: job was a babysitter, Like I literally remember being in
Speaker 1: this home in Balga, massive home, and the brutal thing
Speaker 1: was was like we would have all these families and
Speaker 1: then a month they would just move on. So I'd
Speaker 1: have a best mate for a week and then there'll
Speaker 1: be another new lot of kids and whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know the circumstances until being on a
Speaker 1: road trip and so my very first year I was
Speaker 1: getting on the road quite a bit. We didn't We
Speaker 1: suffered a few injuries and Matt Knight unfortunately suffers a
Speaker 1: few concussions and got knocked out one game and I'm in.
Speaker 1: I got brought up to Sydney as an injury replacement,
Speaker 1: and literally yeah at those times, like as a developed player,
Speaker 1: the only good thing about getting on the road was
Speaker 1: obviously being part of the team. But I got paid
Speaker 1: an extra one thousand dollars. My salary was six grand,
Speaker 1: so like you're.
Speaker 3: Like, chicken Den, we're rolling here.
Speaker 1: So yes, I got there and Maddie gets knocked out
Speaker 1: like the second quarter, and it was the first game
Speaker 1: of a three game road trip, and I just went, oh, no,
Speaker 1: Like they're going to ask me and I don't have
Speaker 1: my passport, and their professional athlete old standards like just
Speaker 1: be ready for everything, be ready for the unexpected, and
Speaker 1: literally as certain if the game gets done or beverage
Speaker 1: taps me. Is like, mate, we're going to bring you
Speaker 1: to New Zealand and then Ilwarra. So first thing, he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I thinking there's an extra two grand. Awesome,
Speaker 1: But then he's like, do you have your passport? And
Speaker 1: I'm like nah, So I'm trying to get my passport arranged.
Speaker 1: They're literally gonna fly someone to bring it in the morning,
Speaker 1: like drop it off and then find New Zealand. So
Speaker 1: I was stuck in Sydney. I went to the embassy.
Speaker 1: The very first few things I said, idea of birth certificate, perfect, yep,
Speaker 1: got that, and then they go, do you have your
Speaker 1: your parents' citizenship papers? And so I was like yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1: So I called my mom up and she's literally like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I've got your birth certificate, but I don't have
Speaker 1: any citizenship papers. And I was like what do you
Speaker 1: mean and she's like, literally, yeah, we were legal immigrants.
Speaker 1: And I was like, you are joking?
Speaker 2: And how old were you when you found that out?
Speaker 1: Twenty three twenty four?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was just like okay, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I should now disclosing up. My mom doesn't get deported,
Speaker 1: but you know, but like I yeah, and I for
Speaker 1: a moment there, I was like, holy crap, like that's
Speaker 1: so bizarre, like that had sort of happened.
Speaker 3: And then was eye opening for you.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, because I like, and Mum always said, but
Speaker 1: Mum's so humble, obviously knew the scope. But I remember
Speaker 1: even like when mum got her first car, like and
Speaker 1: it was that very traditional like Eastern Europeans mums are
Speaker 1: doing this, you know, like they're cooking, cleaning providers, you know,
Speaker 1: like they're doing all that sort of stuff, whereas you know,
Speaker 1: Dad comes in here and food's got to be on
Speaker 1: the table and all that sort of stuff. And Mum
Speaker 1: would work. I remember, like her first car had no indicators,
Speaker 1: so she would be like hand outside the car and
Speaker 1: then if I'm in the front seat, would ask me
Speaker 1: to like put out a hand, and I'm like, but
Speaker 1: I think it's the best thing in the world. But
Speaker 1: she'd and of it, like she because she didn't have
Speaker 1: cyiszenship papers, she couldn't get her license for years, like
Speaker 1: so she was driving illegally. Like she learned English from
Speaker 1: Jehovah's witnesses, Like she didn't know a lick of English,
Speaker 1: and it was a case of like people knocking the door, Hey,
Speaker 1: how a she would like get those words and then
Speaker 1: like pick up and obviously then she would you go around,
Speaker 1: but those just entry statements are going to shops or
Speaker 1: like she would go to the shops to then like
Speaker 1: find out what the checkout operator is saying, so then
Speaker 1: she can understand or oh, here's milk, oh milk, you know,
Speaker 1: like here's that, so like it was crazy like and
Speaker 1: so yeah, end up getting the passport, but that was
Speaker 1: just that like eye opening experience, like and I think,
Speaker 1: how yeah, my mum never complains like it's just like
Speaker 1: this unbelievable woman, and I think it's it's been ingrained
Speaker 1: in me as well as like to do that, like
Speaker 1: just you know, expectations like she she's still she still
Speaker 1: works now. Most beautiful, selfless human being in the world,
Speaker 1: most gentle soul, Yeah, pretty special.
Speaker 2: Do you speak any Hungarian?
Speaker 1: I do a little bit. That The word I always
Speaker 1: and I know this from a young age was an
Speaker 1: yatzi kosh loveda which is I played basketball, and so
Speaker 1: I knew that was like my go to and hot
Speaker 1: void and is how are you and I spend a
Speaker 1: little bit of time there. It's something I actually would
Speaker 1: love to do. I'm not the intellect, so I don't.
Speaker 1: I struggle with the English language a let alone trying
Speaker 1: to adopt the Hungarian language as well. So but yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. And that was the thing growing up my family,
Speaker 1: My brother and my mom would speak it all the time,
Speaker 1: like and especially if like I'd done something wrong, so
Speaker 1: all I'd hear is gogee, come up, And then I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've done something. I'm in trouble here. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a unique language.
Speaker 2: So you were born in Australia, right, I was born?
Speaker 2: When did they move? It mustn't have been that.
Speaker 1: It was literally, well when I'm nineteen eighty seven to twenty,
Speaker 1: so that it was nineteen eighty six, like I think
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, I think my mum.
Speaker 3: So you were on the way yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like which I was born in a pm
Speaker 1: age or Subiaco. Yeah, brother was five years so yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was born here. Yeah, they made the move basically.
Speaker 2: Then Wow, your life could have been different.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Did your brother have any early memories of what Hungary
Speaker 2: was like at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not particularly, Like they've gone back a little bit
Speaker 1: and obviously we've got all of our family members and
Speaker 1: a few of them have come out here. You know,
Speaker 1: when you go to school as a young kid like
Speaker 1: you or western eis and this is the thing, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at my photos, we were
Speaker 1: so like stuck out, like I remember my mum. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like my very first photos is a year one. I
Speaker 1: was in a suit, like I was in an all white,
Speaker 1: like smiling from from ear to ear. But I was
Speaker 1: in in like a white shirt, white suit, white pants,
Speaker 1: and there's like our classroom photos and obviously pretty diverse
Speaker 1: sort of class, but like there's just me a suit
Speaker 1: and then there's just kids in te's you know, and
Speaker 1: like you know, like you see that like people bring
Speaker 1: in like I brought in full traditional Hungary and gulash
Speaker 1: for like you know, like introduction to country days. And
Speaker 1: but that was the thing Mum was, you know, never
Speaker 1: like we were so different like it was and obviously
Speaker 1: as time Mom still went, but it.
Speaker 2: Was like did you feel different at the time?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Like I mean I look at them
Speaker 1: and then even like haircuts and obviously with the name,
Speaker 1: and at a time, like I embrace it, like I
Speaker 1: always love being different. But then it's like sometimes, as
Speaker 1: I said before, kids are vicious and they're ruthless, and
Speaker 1: so you know, you have that Ozzie mentality and like
Speaker 1: you know, I would go to the point where I
Speaker 1: went like overboard. Obviously I have a lot of pride
Speaker 1: and playing for Australia that I did last year and
Speaker 1: those sort of experiences because it gave the life. But
Speaker 1: to the point where then Australian tatoo like some of
Speaker 1: that sort of anger, Yeah, like all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: You got made in Australia tattoo.
Speaker 1: No, I definitely don't. I'm thank god I've got one
Speaker 1: of my best mates with the Southern Cross Stars and
Speaker 1: I hope led him all the time, like how much
Speaker 1: do you regret that? Never see you without your shirt on?
Speaker 1: So yeah, but yeah, it is it will you know?
Speaker 1: Growing up it was something that I definitely in that
Speaker 1: way wish I could have maybe owned a little bit
Speaker 1: more and embraced Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely sort.
Speaker 3: Of aware, I guess exactly.
Speaker 2: So your mum has she told you any story? Have
Speaker 2: you ever asked her about what life was like for
Speaker 2: her before she got to Australia.
Speaker 1: In a way, it was just you know, you're looking
Speaker 1: at it from that Cold War and that Eastern European
Speaker 1: sentiment where poverty was huge, like, and she comes from
Speaker 1: a massive family. She had a relative that had an
Speaker 1: intellectual disability, so she would look after them and the
Speaker 1: family go along, and unfortunately her dad turned to alcohol
Speaker 1: early in the peace just because he was trying to
Speaker 1: provide for so much, was dealing with some mental health
Speaker 1: conditions and in a weird way, like she didn't really
Speaker 1: have a strong connection to her mum. She loved the dad.
Speaker 1: She always used to say, emotional here, but I reminded
Speaker 1: a lot of her dad, gentle, tall guy that wasn't
Speaker 1: yeah it wasn't you know. You'd see this polarizing figure
Speaker 1: and go, oh, you know, he's just going to be
Speaker 1: this real dominant guy. So she used to always say
Speaker 1: it me like, you always reminded me of my father,
Speaker 1: and then he eds to be tough because she obviously
Speaker 1: I didn't never got to meet any of my grandparents
Speaker 1: by on my father's side. But it was, yeah, pretty
Speaker 1: brutal think like even a you know, this massive role
Speaker 1: model a life basically like in her words, in a
Speaker 1: weird way, took his own life not at one moment,
Speaker 1: but it turned to alcohol to then you know obviously
Speaker 1: did that and that was pretty brutal. So thinking of
Speaker 1: that environment, especially when my mom grew up, and how
Speaker 1: she would have tried to take ownership of all responsibilities
Speaker 1: in her life and so I know that I guess
Speaker 1: that's why she still provides now. It's ridiculous what my
Speaker 1: mum tries to do, even at her age. She's actually
Speaker 1: looks after my brother's child at the moment, and my
Speaker 1: mom's yeah sixty odd, you know, because he's in a
Speaker 1: position to do that at the moment. And that's ridiculous,
Speaker 1: Like I say to him, like she should be enjoying
Speaker 1: the fine points of license. She's actually trying to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess raise a child like at that age when
Speaker 1: she should be embracing grandchildren. But that's just my mom,
Speaker 1: and she never complains, and that's pretty Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: amazing to think of woman like that.
Speaker 2: You sound like you're pretty damn proud of your mom.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, I think you know. That's the one
Speaker 1: massive regret in my life now, to be honest, and
Speaker 1: I look at it all the time, is I don't
Speaker 1: tell my mom how much that how much of an
Speaker 1: influence I do. I do share what she's done for me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, she's an unbelievable human being, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: So you didn't have it easy either early days your childhood.
Speaker 2: Tell me a bit about what it was like being
Speaker 2: you as a kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's funny because you say it's not easy,
Speaker 1: but then it's and I keep going back, it's who
Speaker 1: I am as a As a young kid, you know,
Speaker 1: you're trying to find your identity, identity, and you're looking
Speaker 1: for a role model, and I didn't have that. My
Speaker 1: parents split up at an early age, officially, but they
Speaker 1: were separated for some time. And so when it was
Speaker 1: that pivotal piece in life, that twelve or thirteen year
Speaker 1: old age group, Mum would work away for sometimes three
Speaker 1: to four months or should do like a fly and
Speaker 1: flight at Rossaware. She would look after that and this
Speaker 1: Danish royalty whoever it was, and she'd work there and
Speaker 1: then Mum would.
Speaker 3: Come in actually as a nanny time.
Speaker 1: Yeah basically, but she this lady was incapable of doing
Speaker 1: any really bodily function. But I would actually love to
Speaker 1: find out who she was. She owns ships and stuff
Speaker 1: like it. But anyway, yeah, she Mum would go sometimes
Speaker 1: in part of that because she was so successful. They
Speaker 1: would go to Europe for three four months. I'd go
Speaker 1: to Africa for three four months and so Mum would
Speaker 1: be there. And so growing up it was just my
Speaker 1: brother and I and we used to live in this
Speaker 1: home in Hillary's. You know, looking back now, it was
Speaker 1: a really destructive time because I just would never go
Speaker 1: to school. My brother was eighteen, I was thirteen.
Speaker 3: So he was effectively guarded.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, and so and at that station in
Speaker 1: his life he was getting into drugs and alcohol. You know.
Speaker 1: We would have people over all the time. So that
Speaker 1: was my life. I would miss school all the time,
Speaker 1: and because again my mum was like very trustworth like
Speaker 1: sort of trusting of us, Like even when she would
Speaker 1: come back and get a report card and be like,
Speaker 1: Greg's got seventy four half day absence, shit, but what
Speaker 1: is that, I'm like, oh, it's NAT's incorrect. I was
Speaker 1: sleeping on ovals like at times because I had these
Speaker 1: massive nights and I was so ashamed and embarrassed to
Speaker 1: go home and I knew Mum would be home. So
Speaker 1: then like I remember one time sleeping at an oval
Speaker 1: and sprinklers wake up some of my bed. And because
Speaker 1: I was tall, like i'd go out for my brother
Speaker 1: in night clubs.
Speaker 3: You know, and at what sort of age.
Speaker 1: Fifteen sixteen, it was stupid, absolutely stupid, And I'd go
Speaker 1: home and Mum would like, go know, but she'd go
Speaker 1: just have a shower and make sure like I was okay,
Speaker 1: putting the right things in place, But she could control
Speaker 1: it like in a way like and I don't have
Speaker 1: any resentment in that way, and I don't, and no
Speaker 1: one could say, well, why did she not step in?
Speaker 1: Like she needed to provide for the family, like that was, yeah,
Speaker 1: she had to, and she just didn't see the effects
Speaker 1: of that, and so I could have gone spiring out
Speaker 1: of control. There's there's absolutely no doubt about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I was doing all sorts of drugs like in
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: And drugs were you taking.
Speaker 1: Like I mean marijuana was like an easy one, but ecstasy, cocaine,
Speaker 1: like yeah, Like it was sort of just like I'm
Speaker 1: seeing my brother some when I look up to you know,
Speaker 1: that's who I wanted to be. He would sell drugs.
Speaker 1: We would reap the rewards. I would get presents, you
Speaker 1: know why, whatever you want, I'd have a chain or xbox,
Speaker 1: you know, all this sort of stuff. But then the
Speaker 1: other side comes with it. Well you're not ready, like
Speaker 1: as a young kid, like you know, you don't know
Speaker 1: what that is. You're just seeing your idol. So I'm
Speaker 1: looking at that and then going okay, well yeah who cares,
Speaker 1: Like that's a really that's a good way of life.
Speaker 1: Let's embrace it. But then randomly the chain that I
Speaker 1: get goes missing, you know, or the Xbox that was
Speaker 1: just PlayStation goes missing, you know, or police come in
Speaker 1: the house, and then you're like, well, what's going on
Speaker 1: is because well, yeah, there's no drugs are being sold,
Speaker 1: so he's taken it back off and sold them, but
Speaker 1: in a bad way as well. Was like my mates,
Speaker 1: their parents then would start going, let's see, like I
Speaker 1: wasn't the person that was good to hang around with,
Speaker 1: start removing friends around from my circle, or hey, he's
Speaker 1: not a good person to hang around with, or even
Speaker 1: come into a house and say like, you know, Greg's
Speaker 1: a horrible person, Like you know, that was tough, like absolutely,
Speaker 1: because I was just like I wasn't a bad kid,
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't a violent kid. I wasn't disrespectful, you know,
Speaker 1: like I was just that that way of living that
Speaker 1: just seemed natural to me at that time. Basketball was
Speaker 1: that thing. It was at that stage it was this
Speaker 1: real critical piece in my life where I wasn't picking
Speaker 1: up that I was having destructive behavior in terms of
Speaker 1: my own life, and I had a coach and teacher
Speaker 1: that basically was like, what do you want to do? Like,
Speaker 1: you know, do you want to play bart you want
Speaker 1: to take it seriously? Names Benettridge and literally from that day,
Speaker 1: like I fell asleep in physical education class, like because
Speaker 1: of what I was doing on the weekend. And he
Speaker 1: was like, and that's why I have such amount and
Speaker 1: respect for teachers because he saw that and it was like,
Speaker 1: that's not like normal behavior, Like that's his favorite Class's
Speaker 1: the only class I thrived in, you know, it was fyzed.
Speaker 1: And so he's like, okay, you're coming to school. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get you on this. I was at
Speaker 1: that time, I think year nine or ten. So he
Speaker 1: was like, you're going on this basketball tool with me
Speaker 1: with all the year elevens and twelves, like I was
Speaker 1: the only kid. Yeah, you're going to fundraise, You're going
Speaker 1: to sell chocolates, you know, like all this sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: and just installed that sort of work ethic. And then
Speaker 1: I guess the floodgates open. I saw like, okay, maybe
Speaker 1: I could do something about basketball, you know, and then
Speaker 1: that's when all this other stuff will go to college.
Speaker 1: You actually got to go attend school. And yeah, it
Speaker 1: was that moment where you're talking of the fork in
Speaker 1: the road. Yeah, that was that moment, falling asleep in
Speaker 1: class pretty much. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Did you ever get into trouble with the police when
Speaker 2: you're in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I actually remember this moment. It
Speaker 1: was like a blue light disco and yeah, talking about
Speaker 1: our age now, but I remember just being an absolute belter,
Speaker 1: like going our brother's house lived in junele up and
Speaker 1: smoking weed, drinking alcohol. We're all going to like the
Speaker 1: blue light light later, like I was the only underage
Speaker 1: thing that you could go to. The other people that
Speaker 1: I was drinking with, yeah, they were like and then no,
Speaker 1: posy shouldn't to be able to stand, like they put it.
Speaker 1: I remember getting into a room and my mate was
Speaker 1: like literally on a portable bed or whatever and was
Speaker 1: like couldn't speak, you know, and that was like far out,
Speaker 1: Like did I do that? If I didn't bring him
Speaker 1: to my brother's house, that never would have happened. You know.
Speaker 1: That was pretty frightening. I can damage myself, but I
Speaker 1: can't get mates involved, you know. And at that time
Speaker 1: as well, you please don't really and turn their own
Speaker 1: like I'm not disputing that, but they were like your
Speaker 1: scum of the earth, you know, like this is all
Speaker 1: because of you. Like that was that, you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm a young kid. My mum was away, so I
Speaker 1: couldn't call anyone. My brother's not picking up the phone,
Speaker 1: you know, so I'm literally there till the very end,
Speaker 1: and I think someone In the end, I think my
Speaker 1: mum had got like I had to come back in
Speaker 1: from work. But it was that like moment where they
Speaker 1: were pretty ruthless, Like you know, I just remember being
Speaker 1: like interrogate, like what you know, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: You know, like thinking I felt like a criminal, sat
Speaker 1: there just going like what is going on? Like I
Speaker 1: literally at the start was trying to hook up with
Speaker 1: some chick only an hour ago to really like this going.
Speaker 1: Now I'm in a room with a guy that can't
Speaker 1: even speak, and police.
Speaker 2: Are like, you know, interrogating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it was pretty daunting.
Speaker 3: How often were you using?
Speaker 1: Oh, oh, weekly, easily? Easily. My mum would work four
Speaker 1: days a week, so on those weeks, like if I'm
Speaker 1: staying at my brother's house, that's that's when I'm going
Speaker 1: on drugs, whether it's smoking weed or I'd be drinking
Speaker 1: all the time every weekend.
Speaker 3: How early did you start, oh, fourteen?
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, even yeah, I'd say fourteen, I don't know
Speaker 1: what year, but like near nine's and tens and then
Speaker 1: like I'm going out. I never enjoyed childhood, you know,
Speaker 1: like I grew up way too quick. Like I remembered
Speaker 1: like playing in an in an under eighteen nationals and
Speaker 1: then flying in, coming in and then going to a
Speaker 1: nightclub that night and then taking a pill, whereas like
Speaker 1: all these other kids, like you know, they're going home
Speaker 1: and getting picked up by their parents, you know, like
Speaker 1: they hadn't been with their family for a week. And
Speaker 1: I was even getting asked for ID like because I
Speaker 1: remember being in the line and just being taller than
Speaker 1: everyone and then I'd get in and then do that
Speaker 1: and that was my way of living. Like yeah, looking back,
Speaker 1: it's like I wish I had a childhood, Like maybe
Speaker 1: that's why I'm such a big kid. I missed that
Speaker 1: in life.
Speaker 2: You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Greg Heiher. When you
Speaker 2: were littler. You've written before about the fact that there
Speaker 2: was violence in your home. What sort of stuff happened?
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, looking at that traditional Eastern European parenting styles
Speaker 1: instead of that do something wrong, you're going to get hit.
Speaker 1: You know, or grab your arm and rip you through here.
Speaker 1: And then even I remember playing basketball, It's lucky enough
Speaker 1: I didn't hate the sport because like it was an
Speaker 1: intimidating environment to be in. Like I remembered, my brother
Speaker 1: is way better than me at basketball. He's taller, more athletic, better,
Speaker 1: IQ had all the tools like he. I'll say this,
Speaker 1: he's a smarter guy. Used to go to PIAC, you know,
Speaker 1: until actually advanced all this sort of stuff. And it's
Speaker 1: his circumstances on his own accord that's hurt him in
Speaker 1: the long run. And for me, my recollection of playing
Speaker 1: Baskett a young age, it was going to local basketball courts,
Speaker 1: local schools and seeing like my brother and my dad
Speaker 1: play one on one and just nothing fun from it.
Speaker 1: It's a hard slog like every drill is like yours.
Speaker 1: It's a workout, like every single and that was me
Speaker 1: as a young kid, Like there was never once where
Speaker 1: I could just go around and shoot, like you cannot
Speaker 1: just hang out. Every single time I was playing on
Speaker 1: the basketball court was to get better, and that obviously
Speaker 1: instilled work ethic, but that was me and so even
Speaker 1: as as a young kid like that was at home
Speaker 1: there was no disobedience, messing like yeah, absolutely, there was love,
Speaker 1: but it was Yeah, I got taught lessons, you know,
Speaker 1: like stupid lessons as well. If you're not going to
Speaker 1: eat spaghetti until you eat it, you're going to set
Speaker 1: the dinner table till ten o'clock at night, and that
Speaker 1: would happen, you know, like to the point where I'm
Speaker 1: falling asleep, like at the dinner table, like that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff, that parenting style. Yeah, it was tough. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, you know, it doesn't it's not stuff. I
Speaker 1: look back with fondness and happiness and go, oh, this
Speaker 1: is the best time of my life. There's obviously a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of great things and they stand
Speaker 1: out more vividly because yeah, it was tough.
Speaker 3: Were you scared of your dad?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. Welso I don't think he would
Speaker 1: have never heard an individual like you know, and that
Speaker 1: never went too far. Yeah, if there was fear, like
Speaker 1: he'd cast fear in your eyes, knowing if you had
Speaker 1: messed up like that was Yeah, you're going to get
Speaker 1: your ass kicked if you if you stepped over the line.
Speaker 2: You have a look in your face right now that
Speaker 2: you can almost see he's fast.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I spoke. I think it's you know,
Speaker 1: I look at everything happens for a reason. And I
Speaker 1: remember yelling at my son a few months ago, like
Speaker 1: he was a few brutal nights of sleep and really
Speaker 1: really struggling and just frustration. I just sort of like
Speaker 1: venting a little bit, no physical nature, just more you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: as you do. And I went back into the room
Speaker 1: and I just like was crying like for hours, and
Speaker 1: U pont hours and I could like I felt sick
Speaker 1: to my stomach, like.
Speaker 3: Just because you felt you lost, just because.
Speaker 1: I never wanted to be that guy, you know, like
Speaker 1: I never wanted to have that. I never wanted my
Speaker 1: son to ever look at me like with the fear
Speaker 1: that I ever had, you know, like that is something
Speaker 1: I never wanted. Like and even now there's been times
Speaker 1: like just parenting, normal stuff. But I remember, like my
Speaker 1: daughter and I'm sitting there and she's like, I don't
Speaker 1: want dad to be angry, and like that kills me,
Speaker 1: Like it kills me because like I know how much
Speaker 1: like I hate it, Like that's not me, and.
Speaker 3: It takes you back.
Speaker 1: Fa yeah, like yeah, they're brutal times like thinking about
Speaker 1: that like that scope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you how old are you when your dad left?
Speaker 1: Left the numerous times, but like from that thirteen to seventeen,
Speaker 1: like I really barely had contact, Like he was over
Speaker 1: in Canada, had a relationship there, and then the ould
Speaker 1: sort of speak to him and then sort of came
Speaker 1: back in my life fifteenth but again also inconsistent. I
Speaker 1: really don't know if there was a patch there. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was there every single day. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about him now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, a bunch of mixed emotions. Definitely the level of resentment.
Speaker 1: I think that's obvious grateful in a way, in a
Speaker 1: weird way because of who I am, Like I am
Speaker 1: proud of of who I am, not just yeah, obviously
Speaker 1: of the full time NBL champion, but of the human
Speaker 1: being like the prayerent and the husband. And that's obviously
Speaker 1: something I'm more proud about because it's something I don't
Speaker 1: want to be like, you know, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, there's there's some some some things
Speaker 1: in that you take from The good is not this monster,
Speaker 1: but the things that that he displayed I didn't like.
Speaker 1: I've obviously put not put in my life, but there's
Speaker 1: obviously a level of absence. It's just so murky because
Speaker 1: I don't have I don't have this relationship with my father,
Speaker 1: and there's a part of me that goes, you know,
Speaker 1: do I want my children to meet their grand their granddad?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm such a family man, like with my
Speaker 1: with my with my wife's family, Like, you know, I
Speaker 1: look at that, like just went to Christmas Carols, my daughters,
Speaker 1: you know, sitting on the lap of my grand of
Speaker 1: her grandmom, you know, and the joy in their face
Speaker 1: is when their granddad comes home from work and like
Speaker 1: literally not just my kids, but all the other siblings
Speaker 1: as well, they just run to him. And I like
Speaker 1: look at that, like I can't wait, you know, like
Speaker 1: to be that guy. So for part of me, I
Speaker 1: feel sorry for him that he doesn't have that in
Speaker 1: his life, Like he's missing that because you would have
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Would you like to reconcile with him? Or is that
Speaker 2: ship sailed?
Speaker 1: I don't know nearly. I really don't know. There's been moments,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to make an effort in that
Speaker 1: in that manner, Look, I'm not a definitely don't hate
Speaker 1: the man there's obviously I always love. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: a case of if someone wants something, they'll do it.
Speaker 1: The same do with my brother. He's had so many
Speaker 1: chances in his life to change the way his life is.
Speaker 1: If you want to, if you can help a person
Speaker 1: as much as they want, but if they don't want
Speaker 1: to be helped, then there you go, you know. And
Speaker 1: so it's a similar boat. You know. I would never
Speaker 1: I don't have that much hate in my life to go, Nah,
Speaker 1: I'll completely remove you because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's not about me. I dread the day they asked
Speaker 1: why do I never see where's your dad to my children?
Speaker 1: That hurts? Like that hurts? And what do I say?
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, you know, this is the reasons why.
Speaker 1: And that's tough like us that that that that hurts.
Speaker 2: What's your relationship like with your brother?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's such a tough one now because you know,
Speaker 1: as a you only want to help. But it's so
Speaker 1: far gone now. I literally and I talk about hope
Speaker 1: so much now, about mental health and having hope. I've
Speaker 1: lost hope because he's been given so many chances to
Speaker 1: change his life. I don't know and if he, if
Speaker 1: he listens to this, he would never there would not
Speaker 1: be a point of him go. He'd say, to screw you.
Speaker 1: You've got all the chances. You're a professional athlete. You know,
Speaker 1: you were lucky enough. Dad preferred you, Mum gave you
Speaker 1: all these chances. That's just the way it's been. But
Speaker 1: at some point you've got to then take responsibility of
Speaker 1: your own life, you know. And the same similar situation,
Speaker 1: i'd there'd be nothing more that I would love to
Speaker 1: be able to have this family. That would be like
Speaker 1: he's he's here's your uncle, you know, But I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have the confidence to know if I leave him in
Speaker 1: my own house, that's something want to go missing. And
Speaker 1: when you become a father and a husband, no longer
Speaker 1: do you think about yourself. You worry about the others
Speaker 1: in your life and how impacted and how you can't
Speaker 1: hide them away from anything. You know, if there's a confrontation,
Speaker 1: I can walk away or you know I can do that.
Speaker 1: I can't hide my children. Well, I can't hide my wife,
Speaker 1: you know. And they're things in my life that are
Speaker 1: the most important.
Speaker 2: Has your wife met your brother?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, numerous times.
Speaker 2: Have you ever sat down with him and told him.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, so many times. Yeah, And it's tough because
Speaker 1: it's that, you know, as a brother, you sit there
Speaker 1: and you you don't want to, but there's that point
Speaker 1: where you just reach tipping point or your last straw,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, there's been many chimes.
Speaker 2: And just can never get through.
Speaker 1: Nah, exactly, I don't. It's that Nut doesn't accept that
Speaker 1: he's doing anything wrong or yeah, taken responsibility or the avenues.
Speaker 1: And I think it's because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: my mom's love for her children. He always knows he's
Speaker 1: got a parachute, you know, if if something happens, he's
Speaker 1: got someone he can rely on. And that's the thing
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. As bad as the
Speaker 1: sounds people might go, Wow, what a horrible human being,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's like that case of going you needed to
Speaker 1: spend some time in jail to see it, to be
Speaker 1: at rock bottom, to know what truly is, you know,
Speaker 1: and to go like I don't know what to do,
Speaker 1: and then completely change your life. But right now it's
Speaker 1: just sort of still floating. And unfortunately I worry that
Speaker 1: I will just see, you know, I'll be I get
Speaker 1: a message. And there's no doubt I have fear every
Speaker 1: time I get a text message from my mum telling
Speaker 1: me that my brother's dead.
Speaker 2: That's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like every single like, yeah, I every single time
Speaker 1: I worry opening up that text message.
Speaker 2: How did that's a that's a massive thing to live with.
Speaker 2: Becauld you clearly really love him?
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3: Has he been in jail?
Speaker 1: Has he has spend some time but just days, you know,
Speaker 1: and then but that's the thing. We've got the best
Speaker 1: lawyers to get him out, you know. Like I've been
Speaker 1: at the point because of like I'm obviously a bit stronger,
Speaker 1: but to say to mine like I'm going to call
Speaker 1: the police, you know, I'm removing it, like he's got
Speaker 1: to go, and like, but how do you do that?
Speaker 1: It's it's like it's just not a there's no winners,
Speaker 1: you know, like you don't just go oh cool, like
Speaker 1: and it's tough because I'm this professional athlete that's been
Speaker 1: very successful, that's earned a lot of money. It's like,
Speaker 1: well you should be helping everyone. You know.
Speaker 3: It's easy for you to X y Z correct.
Speaker 1: You know, Hey how about this, Oh you've always had
Speaker 1: a good you know, I've found out of a mental
Speaker 1: health organization with my brother that struggles with mental health conditions,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, hold on, how does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Like you know that shouldn't be the case, like worry
Speaker 1: about your own backyard. Like it's tough. It's definitely tough,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you just feel weakless, like you just you
Speaker 1: go like I wish I could do it, but I
Speaker 1: don't know what. Sometimes it's like I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do, Like there is every every avenue has been explored,
Speaker 1: and you just simply feel hopeless.
Speaker 2: So is it drugs with him?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: When you reflect on the person you were as a kid, now,
Speaker 2: how do you feel about that person?
Speaker 1: I Everything in life that I've worked for has been
Speaker 1: like such like that grind and nothing was roses all.
Speaker 1: All I wanted in life was for someone to care
Speaker 1: about me. Like, so when I had a teacher, and
Speaker 1: it's weird, but people that you know, it's so easy
Speaker 1: for teachers when there's that like person that's disobedient and
Speaker 1: being boisterous and loud, they just go like, oh, that's typical. Great,
Speaker 1: Like and I was obviously like yearning for something. I
Speaker 1: was grasping, like I want some help and I don't
Speaker 1: expect it, but you know what I mean. So then
Speaker 1: I would gravitate to somewhere that like they would care
Speaker 1: about me. And that was like the basketball coach, or
Speaker 1: I had a political and legal studies coach, a teacher, sorry,
Speaker 1: and I had a history teacher, and whilst didn't have
Speaker 1: an inclination to love that subject, it was the teacher,
Speaker 1: Like it was crazy to think even now I remembered,
Speaker 1: like there was this lot more historytician. She actually cared
Speaker 1: about me as a human, not as a student, and
Speaker 1: that meant so much to me. So when you asked that, like,
Speaker 1: it's made me again, like you know, I have this
Speaker 1: gravitational pool to like trying to assist with people that
Speaker 1: are in less fortunate, you know, and being the position
Speaker 1: that I was in was in that regard was like
Speaker 1: you can give back to so much more, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's fair to say. Why you're doing this today
Speaker 2: as well? Was that because by sharing your story it helps.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And even there's like you know when you prepare
Speaker 1: for that. And I was thinking in the drive here
Speaker 1: and obviously listen to a few of the other episodes
Speaker 1: in like Horse and that natural you know, how are
Speaker 1: you going to approach that? And then as you speak,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, there's some things that initially I felt
Speaker 1: would I be reluctant to share that? But then I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: there's people in the same similar position, and for me,
Speaker 1: being vulnerable, being open, being honest, being authentic is is
Speaker 1: sharing stories is what we need and we need human connection.
Speaker 2: If you had listened to a podcast like this when
Speaker 2: you were a kid, do you think it would have
Speaker 2: made a difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I wasn't expected to be as successful
Speaker 1: as what I am, Like there's no way, and like
Speaker 1: I get pissed off now and like people like still
Speaker 1: they talk about my career, you know, like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you had great opportunities, or no one gives me the
Speaker 1: plaudits that I believe I deserve. It's because of the
Speaker 1: young kid that was on a very dangerous path. So
Speaker 1: like in that essence, like even when I was a
Speaker 1: young like as a young development player, like I busted
Speaker 1: my ass and no one ever knew that, Like, no
Speaker 1: one was like why is he so? Why does he
Speaker 1: work so hard?
Speaker 2: You only told your teammates about halfway through your Wildcat's career?
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 1: But I don't even know the scope, like we don't
Speaker 1: as professional athletes get fully immersed in people's lives. And
Speaker 1: that was my responsibilit of understanding people and that I
Speaker 1: wanted to know their story, and we did this in
Speaker 1: my very last season, like what their why was? Because
Speaker 1: how can you expect people to hold each other accountable,
Speaker 1: hold standards, real, tear someone apart and then have a
Speaker 1: coffee later, But then you don't know the human being.
Speaker 1: How do you expect people to give all their emotion,
Speaker 1: all their effort, sacrifice.
Speaker 3: So much be there for you on the court as
Speaker 3: a teammatee.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you don't even know if they've got siblings,
Speaker 1: or what their backstory is or what their motivation was.
Speaker 1: We got everyone to write down what their why was,
Speaker 1: and no one opened it up. We left it till
Speaker 1: the eve of the finals and we sat there outside
Speaker 1: of the Perforna in the car park and like Trev,
Speaker 1: he was like, I do you want to lead this?
Speaker 1: And I said no, I'll let you go. It's all you.
Speaker 1: Trev opened up his.
Speaker 2: One big thing for a coach today.
Speaker 1: Mate, unbelievable like rawness and I won't share his one
Speaker 1: but the most powerful thing he's ever done in his
Speaker 1: coaching career because we had a group there that was young,
Speaker 1: but like for him to just this bravado, strong, proud
Speaker 1: man which he is to like actually allow every single
Speaker 1: person within the team to see what his why is
Speaker 1: but then strip it down on these layers with no
Speaker 1: judgment was special for him to be vulnerable and that
Speaker 1: moment of time was huge. Obviously loved it to have
Speaker 1: done it early and the peace, but it's what it's about,
Speaker 1: and that was me as a captain, was like to
Speaker 1: sit down and figure that out.
Speaker 2: Your mental health? Did it ever suffer from what you
Speaker 2: went through?
Speaker 1: Yeah? It's funny, yeah, because like whilst I was playing
Speaker 1: professional basketball, never at one point that I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, I suffer from a mental health I was
Speaker 1: never diagnosed with a mental health condition. But the more
Speaker 1: and more I have become immersed in this space in
Speaker 1: understanding it, yeah, Yeah, there's moments in my career that
Speaker 1: I look back and go like, holy shit, Like I
Speaker 1: would have loved to have like acknowledged at that time,
Speaker 1: even the way I still struggle with social media that
Speaker 1: sort of side to it, and how like our brutal
Speaker 1: that that really is and what that made that, how
Speaker 1: that made me feel, But then the other effects of
Speaker 1: how that impacted my play.
Speaker 2: As people criticizing, Yeah, what kind of things.
Speaker 1: Like you talk about the story like, as a development player,
Speaker 1: you're an underdog. Everyone loves you right, like you can't
Speaker 1: do any wrong. You hit a shot in layup and
Speaker 1: warm ups and hit a layup and people are like,
Speaker 1: Greg High is the future. And the following year you
Speaker 1: start getting some minutes W A guy, proud w A guy,
Speaker 1: and they're like, awesome, you have a few good games, yep,
Speaker 1: really good and even those games aren't that special, but
Speaker 1: people just the underdog awesome, let's let's embrace him. And
Speaker 1: I end up being a starter. I get invited to
Speaker 1: a boomer camp. I'm playing good, but in one minutes
Speaker 1: aren't like this, you know, amazing thing whatever. And that
Speaker 1: changes as an impact because as your role grows, your
Speaker 1: expectations grow, obviously within yourself, but fans start going, oh,
Speaker 1: hold on, like is he as good as he is?
Speaker 1: Like all that, and then they start but that ends
Speaker 1: up being their fall guy. You know. Initially I got
Speaker 1: so consumed in a dangerous way, and that was to
Speaker 1: my own accord and my own damaging behavior. But I
Speaker 1: remember seeing on Twitter and everyone's just sort of adding,
Speaker 1: like mentioning an awesome job, well done. But then that
Speaker 1: year or that shift was like people just like his shit,
Speaker 1: worst player should be sacked. And the thing was was
Speaker 1: like I could never understand the human like context.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why somebody would want to say that to another person?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't understand how we could be so hurtful,
Speaker 1: like and we could be so quick for judgment and
Speaker 1: being like he should be sacked or get rid of him.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, what about their livelihoods? You know,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying that. I understand it's the results
Speaker 1: driven industry, but we just don't understand that give people
Speaker 1: a chance. We're just so quick to tear people down,
Speaker 1: but we're not we're not quick to celebrate success.
Speaker 2: So how bad was it for you? Were you just
Speaker 2: sitting there scrollings?
Speaker 1: I remember this is a moment, and it sort of
Speaker 1: really changed me. I remembered like, and I was sort
Speaker 1: of getting minutes and we're having a bit of a
Speaker 1: down year and we're playing towns with crocodiles, and I
Speaker 1: got brought in with like a minute left and got in,
Speaker 1: got found in this, two free throws got scored on,
Speaker 1: and then the last possession I came in and rotated
Speaker 1: on a guy that I definitely shouldn't have completely my
Speaker 1: fault got scored on. They hit a game winning as
Speaker 1: a game winning shot time expired, and you always it's
Speaker 1: not only one possession. I'm like, I clearly lost this
Speaker 1: the game, like I can be honest, some fine of it.
Speaker 2: I'm aware of it.
Speaker 1: It was one, not one. It was like three four
Speaker 1: bad possessions and I had a shit game. So I'll
Speaker 1: cop that, like absolutely. But I remember sitting in the
Speaker 1: ice bath, being on my phone. The BRA just like
Speaker 1: came in and people that I was like had just
Speaker 1: seen in the members function like the week before, you know, like,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is so awkward, Like at night,
Speaker 1: like my wife's asleep and I can't. I can barely
Speaker 1: sleep off the games anyway. I'm just so wide up,
Speaker 1: still scrolling, gone gone to sleep and then opening my
Speaker 1: phone and still scrolling. And it was just like this
Speaker 1: constant or then like seeing it. Some people save it
Speaker 1: and use it for motivation, but it actually directly hurt me.
Speaker 1: It's easy to say, we just don't look at it
Speaker 1: from that, Like, I remember my mum reading newspaper articles
Speaker 1: talking about me getting sacked and should call and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: I've got there's a job opportunity at City of June.
Speaker 1: There's a youth support worker and I'm like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about. She's like, oh, I saw this article
Speaker 1: saying you're potentially going to be fired. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't worry about that to then, you know, your wife,
Speaker 1: seeing that.
Speaker 3: She's legitimately trying to.
Speaker 1: My mum was just so like she honestly did. She
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, look, you've had a great run,
Speaker 1: well done, and I was just like cool, you know,
Speaker 1: but that consumed me and ended up having the best
Speaker 1: game maybe of my career, like at that point Double
Speaker 1: Double Back Backskin or Massive Game, and I put my
Speaker 1: phone away. I just put those things in place in
Speaker 1: my life to be like. It consumed me. There's no
Speaker 1: denying it was. One of the catalysts of why I
Speaker 1: retired was that it consumed me so much that my
Speaker 1: energy and emotion was going to that sort of stuff
Speaker 1: that I couldn't control, maybe in an addictive way that
Speaker 1: I was worried so much about what people thought about
Speaker 1: me that I wasn't enjoying the game. And so when
Speaker 1: you asked about like that mental health conditions and in
Speaker 1: that regard, I look back and now go, did I
Speaker 1: really have a control on things? And yeah, is there
Speaker 1: a lot more to it that I can really focus on?
Speaker 2: And you sort of alluded to it before, but I
Speaker 2: suppose when those sorts of things happen where it feels,
Speaker 2: even though it's a it's just inverticom as a basketball performance,
Speaker 2: that it feels that it's attached to your self worth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, every game was like it was like running a
Speaker 1: marathon at some points as well. It's tough because like
Speaker 1: I retired in a manner like it and I still
Speaker 1: love the sport. And when I retired, it was like
Speaker 1: I really think give a fuck? And it was exhausting
Speaker 1: and that affected my relationships, Like yep, I was obviously
Speaker 1: a loving husband, my children, Like would they see me
Speaker 1: like I was exhausted? You know? Was I a little
Speaker 1: bit more less impatient? And that sucks because like what
Speaker 1: that game as a young kid gave me so much
Speaker 1: and gave me the life I am at some point
Speaker 1: then was becoming a burden and that hurts. This really sucks.
Speaker 1: But like, I'm still playing basketball, and I have ambitions
Speaker 1: to try and play in the Conwarf games for three
Speaker 1: and three because I love that sort of side that
Speaker 1: I still have an opportunity to do that. It's a
Speaker 1: new element, new sport. Once that happens. Whether irrespective if
Speaker 1: I play or not, I'll never play basketball again. I
Speaker 1: should round off my kids. Absolutely, I'll coach, but I
Speaker 1: won't even do local, which is pretty bad.
Speaker 2: When I ask you the question, after everything that you've
Speaker 2: been through, When I ask you the question, what is
Speaker 2: a real man to you, how do you answer it?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a good one. Really. Look, I think for me,
Speaker 1: someone that's vulnerable. That's someone that's happy enough to show
Speaker 1: their emotion. It's someone that's as loving and is happy
Speaker 1: enough to tell someone all the time that they love
Speaker 1: them and to share that both verbally and physically. It's
Speaker 1: taking the lead. It is that stereotype of being a
Speaker 1: provider for your family and being that guy that goes, yeah, hey,
Speaker 1: absolutely take the man to hell, but then taking the
Speaker 1: back seat too and just happy enough to sit on
Speaker 1: the wayside and you know, just enjoy life as patience. Man.
Speaker 1: It's just being comfortable with who you really are and
Speaker 1: embracing that. I think you know, as we as as
Speaker 1: as as men, we're expected too to be so proud
Speaker 1: and stoic and never to display emotion and to withdraw
Speaker 1: and and not show compassion. And the other side is
Speaker 1: we're so to just tear each other down. Oh, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you apart makes it stronger, Like nah, god, no,
Speaker 1: you know, it's been so so often I've been able
Speaker 1: to share like these, these like real fine moments with
Speaker 1: some of my best mates, you know, like the Trevor
Speaker 1: Gleeson incident where he was able to share that. But
Speaker 1: why are we so reluctant to be open? What are
Speaker 1: we so hot? Like? What do we fear for of?
Speaker 1: And it's that fear of judgment like that that's it,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's when you ask me, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what what does a man represent? That's all those things?
Speaker 2: Good answer.
Speaker 3: Before I let you go.
Speaker 2: I mean, I thank you so much for sharing your
Speaker 2: story because I always I get goosebumps every time I
Speaker 2: say this to somebody, But I think it does help
Speaker 2: kids coming through and even big.
Speaker 3: Kids like us. Now you talk about blue light discos.
Speaker 2: We've been around a while that you know, to share
Speaker 2: our own stories and be vulnerable. As you say, but
Speaker 2: that's exactly what you do through your charity Stitch in Time.
Speaker 2: So tell people listening how they can support your charity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, As you know, there's a few ways hit
Speaker 1: up stitch in Time, dot org, dot you, or obviously
Speaker 1: through all the social media platforms. If there's one piece
Speaker 1: of advice that I always like, try and leave people,
Speaker 1: and in that sentiment is that we are so much
Speaker 1: for people to reach out for support, but we need
Speaker 1: to think about how tough that really is. So many
Speaker 1: people are waiting for people to be reached out upon.
Speaker 1: You know, I ask five closer you mates how they're
Speaker 1: doing and to actually show genuine care because like if
Speaker 1: I said to you Nearroly, he's struggling in that you're
Speaker 1: okay and we just have that human connection, I don't
Speaker 1: think things are going okay. And we kept talking for
Speaker 1: a little bit and I asked, have you considered taking
Speaker 1: your own life? And you said yes. The one thing
Speaker 1: you would do, respective of my education level, is I
Speaker 1: would place every out of any in my life to
Speaker 1: know that you would be okay. Like I'd go seek
Speaker 1: out accounts, I talk to your parents, talk to your partner,
Speaker 1: talk to a psychologist. You'd get the experts, but you'd
Speaker 1: do that because we value human life, but we're so
Speaker 1: fearful of asking for that question for that reason. To
Speaker 1: hear that, because you'd go, I don't really know what
Speaker 1: to do. I would encourage everyone to be an advocate
Speaker 1: for mental health, like you don't need a title, and
Speaker 1: if we truly want to play any points on it,
Speaker 1: every single person needs to play a priority on it.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for everything you shared today. It's
Speaker 2: pretty damn inspiring and four time MBO champion more than
Speaker 2: two hundred games. As you said, your mum must be
Speaker 2: pretty proud at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: She is. I'll tell you one thing that's always really sentimental,
Speaker 1: and it was funny. I was just cleaning up my offices.
Speaker 1: My mum amazing to think person in speaking unless she writes.
Speaker 1: She writes all the time. From when I was playing,
Speaker 1: Mum would write these like little essays just how proud
Speaker 1: she was of me, and yeah, there's always special and
Speaker 1: I was looking for on the other day and she
Speaker 1: had a few tears, just like how how lucky I
Speaker 1: am obviously had it in my life. But how special
Speaker 1: was for her to share those moments that mean as
Speaker 1: well awesome.
Speaker 3: Well done, Thanks for love soon time.
Speaker 2: Once again, thank you to Greg for sharing his story.
Speaker 2: Please remember if this chat was triggering for you, or
Speaker 2: there is someone you know who may need help, Beyond
Speaker 2: Blue dot org, dot AU, Lifeline one three, one, one
Speaker 2: one four or one eight hundred respect are just a
Speaker 2: couple of places you can go. This is the final
Speaker 2: episode for season two of Ordinarily Speaking. I want to
Speaker 2: thank each and every one of you who have reached
Speaker 2: out along the way and shared your stories with me.
Speaker 2: You're the reason I started this podcast and why each
Speaker 2: and every sportsperson has agreed to come on the show
Speaker 2: and share their story to try and help people listening.
Speaker 3: If you want to.
Speaker 2: Get in touch at Ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or
Speaker 2: at Narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter. And if you've enjoyed
Speaker 2: the series, please tell your nights. Thanks again,