1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: In the fast paced, work focused world we live in, 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: is hitting burnout now just inevitable for all of us. 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: Last year I suffered from intense burnout and hit an 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: all time work low, and a close friend who helped 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: me through this period was Sabina Read, a psychologist who's 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: a regular contributor on threeaw and the host of the 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Human Cogs podcast. And it was on one of our 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: regular catch up walks that I confessed my experience of 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: burnout to Sabina, and it was her advice and understanding 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: that helped me work through it. Welcome to How I Work, 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your date. 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. On today's quick Win episode, 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and 14 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: I'd pick out a quick win that you can apply today. 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: So last year, when I was suffering from a burnout, 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: I was grappling with a few different decisions and Sabina 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: offered me some incredible advice about walking the different paths. 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: So I knew I had to get her back to 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: share it for the podcast. 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: But I think what you and I were talking about 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 2: then was some fear based things about what if, what 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: if this happens, what if that happens? And I find 23 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: a really useful response or a strategy to that is 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: to not just in your mind and not just in 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: a journal, and not just talking and not just therapy, 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: but to actually take some physical steps thinking about what 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: would happen if that came to fruition or if I 28 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: took that path, and then physically to walk back to 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: your starting point and physically to walk down a separate 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: path in a different direction. I mean, physically move your 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: body in a different direction. I think I said to you. 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: There's something called chair work in psychology which kind of 33 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: uses similar principles, where you're inviting one part of a person. 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: We're all made up of parts, and these parts are conflicting, 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: and these parts need to talk to each other. And 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 2: in chair work, in the therapeutic setting, you're inviting one 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 2: part of a person. So perhaps a part that wants 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: to leave, let's say, leave a job, leave a marriage, 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: change something, and then another part wants to stay and 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: wants the status quote. So we can all relate to 41 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: those even outside of the work domain. And there's something 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: about actually inviting a person to sit in chair A 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 2: and talk for part A, and then sit in the 44 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: second chair and talk for part B and the physical 45 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: movement from chair. Now, as I'm saying this, there'll be 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: people listening to this sounds bonkers. Why would you ask 47 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: someone to get up and say a few sentences in 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: one chair and then move themselves to the next chair. 49 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: But it's a way to shake off some of the 50 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: PRECONCEPD ideas, the faulty thinking, the expectations, the shoulds, and 51 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: just be clear with that part and let that part 52 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 2: have a voice. So the physicality matters. It shifts something 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: in our physiology. And what I think you and I 54 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: were talking about in the park was physically taking yourself 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: down that path and imagining. And I'm closing my eyes 56 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: as I'm saying it, but what would it feel like? 57 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: Who would be there, what would it smell like? What 58 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: would I do with my time? How would I be 59 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: as a partner, what would be like as a parent, 60 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: where would I live? Whatever? All the questions are. And 61 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: then going back down starting point and going you know, 62 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 2: down path B and asking the same questions and something 63 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: around the physical walking through allows us to really imagine 64 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: it before we shut it down. 65 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: I found that strategy very very helpful, you know. And 66 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: I think as like as I contemplated, you know, just 67 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: different scenarios with the different decision points that I had 68 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: throughout twenty twenty four, I think it helped me make better, 69 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: clearer decisions using that strategy. It's funny twenties when I 70 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: studied costalt therapy, I did so much empty chair work. 71 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: Okay, so you're well familiar. 72 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: I've spoken to many an empty chair. 73 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: Ah, they're great company, aren't they. 74 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: Love an empty chair? Although I think after doing about 75 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: three or four years of costalt therapy, I am this 76 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: is you as a client, This is me as a client. 77 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: So I studied as a therapist, but I saw a 78 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: gastalt therapist as a client. And I think after about 79 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: four years of talking to empty chairs, you were ready 80 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: for a human enough. 81 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: Yes, you know, we were just talking off air briefly, 82 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 2: then around what are the tactics? What are the strategies? 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: And I think we need to understand this is not 84 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: something you wrap in a bow and lately take forward 85 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: and see you never burn out. This is about actually 86 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: knowing who we are at our very core. We need 87 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: to know what I need, I need to know what 88 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: I need and I need to understand and when I 89 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: ignore that, at what cost it comes to me. I 90 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: also need to understand and feel and appreciate the dynamics 91 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: between me and others in my life at this relational piece, 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: professionally and personally. And again, now, we can't always honor 93 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: our own needs in a relationship because there's other people 94 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: at play. So let's just give an example. When you 95 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: are in the company of someone that you find exhausting 96 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: and depleting, that can be a factor towards burnout. It's 97 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: not the only factor, but can be a cumulative factor. 98 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: The only person who can change that is you. You 99 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: can either have a conversation with the person or multiple 100 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: conversations to talk about what happens in their orbit, or 101 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: you can just depending on the relationship and how high 102 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: stakes a relationship is, you can just say I'm not 103 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: going to spend time in this person's company anymore because 104 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: it is emptying my tank. Knowing what I need, knowing 105 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: what we need, and then also knowing some of the 106 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 2: external contextual pressures that happen to all of us as workers, 107 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 2: as parents, as partners, as humans, and in the context 108 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: also of a world that's spinning out of control. And 109 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: then we couple that with all of these shoulds, and 110 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: so we ignore and we put our blinkers back on, 111 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: and we think, well, everyone else seem's fine, so I'll 112 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: escape marching along, or you said, I'll take a holiday. 113 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Vietnam and a staycation in Melbourne. 114 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: And then when I got back, I felt fine. Band 115 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 2: aid good good, I mean a powerful band aid, but 116 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: it's not a permanent fix. And then you describe, well, 117 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: after a couple of weeks, some of the same experiences 118 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: start to set in again, and you think, damn, I 119 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: was doing so fine, and that's why I said, what 120 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 2: were the ingredients? How do we unpack that? How do 121 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: we define that? And we didn't even finish that, but 122 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 2: you said very clearly I wasn't contactable or responsible for 123 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: other people. Then you go back to the world, the job, 124 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: the life you were living, and now, of course we 125 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: all have some responsibility to other people, but with what 126 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: magnitude and to how many is probably in our control. 127 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this quick win with Sabina Reid. 128 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: If you'd like to listen to the full interview, you 129 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,559 Speaker 1: can find a link to that in the show notes. 130 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: If you like today's show, make sure you hit follow 131 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: on your podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop. 132 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 133 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: the warrangery people, part of the Cooler Nation.