Speaker 1: Already, and this is the daily.
Speaker 2: This is the daily, This is the daily. OAHs, Oh,
Speaker 2: now it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,
Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of March.
Speaker 2: I'm Sam, I'm Billy.
Speaker 1: Russia has just experienced its deadliest domestic terror attack in
Speaker 1: twenty years in Moscow. On Friday, four gunmen stormed a
Speaker 1: concert hall and killed at least one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: seven people, with another one hundred and forty injured. Now,
Speaker 1: as the four gunmen faced trial, questions are being asked
Speaker 1: about the failure of Russian intelligence to foreshadow this attack.
Speaker 1: This is all despite some very explicit warnings from the
Speaker 1: US intelligence services only a few weeks ago. We're going
Speaker 1: to explain what happened, what the world knew, and how
Speaker 1: Russia is responding all in today's They Dive. But first, Billy,
Speaker 1: what is making headlines.
Speaker 2: Legislation to jail immigration detainees who don't cooperate with the
Speaker 2: deportation process is expected to pass the Senate today. Labour
Speaker 2: introduced its proposed amendment to the Migration Act in Parliament
Speaker 2: yesterday with the support of the Coalition. It means non
Speaker 2: citizens will be required to comply with efforts to ensure
Speaker 2: their prompt and lawful removal from Australia, otherwise they will
Speaker 2: face lengthy prison sentences and large fines. It comes amid
Speaker 2: debate in the High Court over whether the government can
Speaker 2: lawfully force asylum seekers to leave the country even if
Speaker 2: they face persecution in their home country.
Speaker 1: Melbourne's crownd casino will be allowed to keep its license
Speaker 1: after a Victorian inquiry and Royal Commission had threatened to
Speaker 1: ban its gambling operation. A twenty twenty one investigation found
Speaker 1: Crown had been involved in illegal activity, including tax avoidance
Speaker 1: and money laundering. The state's Gambling and Casino Commission gave
Speaker 1: Crown two years to quote address the failure it had identified.
Speaker 1: The Commission says it's now satisfied that the casino has
Speaker 1: reformed its operations, ruling Crown can keep its casino license.
Speaker 2: The New Zealand government has raised concerns with the Chinese
Speaker 2: government over foreign cyber interference. New Zealand's Foreign Minister Winston
Speaker 2: Peters said officials have spoken to the Chinese ambassadors to
Speaker 2: address these concerns, which he described as unacceptable. It follows
Speaker 2: action against alleged Chinese cyber activity by UK and US
Speaker 2: authorities this week.
Speaker 1: And today's good news. Scientists at the Australian National University
Speaker 1: in Canberra have discovered what causes ciiasis. Ciriasis is a
Speaker 1: skin disease that causes inflammation and skin irritation, which can
Speaker 1: also lead to arthritis, joint pain and swelling. A and
Speaker 1: U researchers have now found that a mutation in genes
Speaker 1: considered quote gatekeepers of the immune system, is the reason
Speaker 1: people get ciiasis. The breakthrough paves the way for new treatments,
Speaker 1: earlier diagnosis, and a potential future cure.
Speaker 2: Okay, Sam, so let's start by you just explaining what
Speaker 2: exactly happened in Moscow on Friday.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we go back to Friday night for this
Speaker 1: attack in Moscow, and Moscow is the capital of Russia.
Speaker 1: About six thousand people were attending a concert at a
Speaker 1: hall for the Russian rock band Picnic. They play kind
Speaker 1: of traditional Russian rock. They're very popular, and just before
Speaker 1: the concert began, at least four gunmen walked into the
Speaker 1: entry hall carrying semi automatic weapons and wearing camouflage gear
Speaker 1: and they began to shoot indiscriminately. Now, a lot of
Speaker 1: this attack is captured on video footage filmed by the
Speaker 1: terrorists and they posted it straight away on social media,
Speaker 1: and it is horrific footage of people being shot at
Speaker 1: point blank range. Then the terrorists start pouring a flammable
Speaker 1: liquid on the floor and light the building on fire. Now,
Speaker 1: talk emergency services about fifteen minutes to arrive the scene,
Speaker 1: and I want to come back later to why that
Speaker 1: is significant. But in that time the fire had totally
Speaker 1: engulfed the hall that caused the roof to collapse. The
Speaker 1: four men escaped, leaving one hundred and thirty seven dead
Speaker 1: and at least one hundred and forty injured, and that
Speaker 1: death toll is still expected to grow as emergency services
Speaker 1: work through the building that is now rubble.
Speaker 2: And you said that the terrorists got away, but they
Speaker 2: were captured soon.
Speaker 1: After, right, Yeah. So on Saturday morning local time, Russian
Speaker 1: authorities said that they'd arrested eleven people in relation to
Speaker 1: the attack, and that does include the four gunmen that
Speaker 1: we can see in the video footage. Now, according to
Speaker 1: the Russian government, they were taken into custody in a
Speaker 1: region in the southwest of the country near the Ukrainian border.
Speaker 1: That's a few hours drive from the concert hall, and
Speaker 1: according to Russia, they were getting ready to escape into Ukraine. Now,
Speaker 1: I do just want to mention here that it is
Speaker 1: incredibly hard for international media to independently verify the reports
Speaker 1: and statements that we get from the Russian government. But
Speaker 1: there's been some really amazing journalism I've been reading over
Speaker 1: the last couple of days by those trying to verify
Speaker 1: these facts for themselves. And an example is the New
Speaker 1: York Times. They looked at the video footage and then
Speaker 1: they looked at the profiles of those men who have
Speaker 1: been arrested, and they've concluded with relative certainty that they
Speaker 1: are indeed the same people.
Speaker 2: And so you've been calling it a terrorist attack. From
Speaker 2: what I understand, the Islamic State has claimed responsibility for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the men were arrested on Saturday morning. A
Speaker 1: couple of hours after that, Islamic State claims responsibility for
Speaker 1: the attack, and they released their own photo of the
Speaker 1: four masked gunmen. And the Islamic State is a group
Speaker 1: Australia lists as a terrorist organization, and Islamic State has
Speaker 1: a deep seated historical hatred towards Russia. Most recently Russia's
Speaker 1: been involved in a number of military campaigns against the
Speaker 1: Islamic State. I mean the big one is Syria's civil
Speaker 1: war in twenty fifteen, and Islamic State since then has
Speaker 1: vowed vengeance against Russia for its attack in that region.
Speaker 1: Now as to the specific branch of ISIS that is
Speaker 1: responsible for the attack, because there's lots of different branches.
Speaker 1: It's based on where they are, they're particular ideologies. It's
Speaker 1: believed in Afghanistan based branch called isis K is responsible.
Speaker 1: In terms of getting more specific of who these men
Speaker 1: actually are, where exactly they came from, it is still
Speaker 1: an evolving situation, but I do just want to really
Speaker 1: emphasize that. I think often we forget that there are
Speaker 1: deep divisions within the world of Islamic terror organizations. We
Speaker 1: need to go one step deeper when reporting this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. And it's not surprising that a friend of Syria,
Speaker 1: as Russia is, is an enemy of ISIS. And it's
Speaker 1: just the same way that ISIS and the Taliban attempts
Speaker 1: to destroy each other. They come from different sides of
Speaker 1: the political and ideological divide.
Speaker 2: So the Islamic State has come out and claimed responsibility
Speaker 2: for this attack. What has the Russian government said in response?
Speaker 1: Well, firstly, it took Vladimir Putin, who's the Russian president,
Speaker 1: almost a full day to comment publicly on the attack,
Speaker 1: and that's a relatively delayed response for a leader after
Speaker 1: such a severe attack.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Australia and other countries.
Speaker 1: We'd hear from them in the hours following yea. And
Speaker 1: then when he did speak publicly, he delivered a five
Speaker 1: minute speech that was televised to Russia that didn't include
Speaker 1: a comment on Islamic State taking responsibility. Interesting why, Well,
Speaker 1: he believes that Ukraine could partly be to blame for this.
Speaker 1: Putin highlighted the fact that the men were caught fleeing
Speaker 1: in the direction of Ukraine, and he kind of was
Speaker 1: suggesting that Ukraine had a direct role in the attack.
Speaker 1: And then it was only yesterday in another televised speech
Speaker 1: that Putin acknowledged that what he described as radical Islamists
Speaker 1: were responsible for the attack. But even then, when he
Speaker 1: acknowledged that there was this link that Islamic State themselves
Speaker 1: have identified, he linked it further to what he described
Speaker 1: as the neo Nazi Kiv regime. And that's obviously a
Speaker 1: reference to Ukraine. Now, Ukraine's president Vladimir Zelenski has denied
Speaker 1: any Ukrainian responsibility for the terror attack. In response to
Speaker 1: the accusations, Zelensky accused Pudin of trying to shift the
Speaker 1: blame to someone else.
Speaker 2: So what you're suggesting is that Russia is trying to
Speaker 2: make this terrorist attack about Ukraine, who they have invaded
Speaker 2: and they are in a war against, instead of Islamic State,
Speaker 2: who has claimed responsibility.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to really understand this, you have to zoom
Speaker 1: out and look at the big narratives in Russia and
Speaker 1: the big narratives that Vladimir Putin pushes forward through state
Speaker 1: run media to the Russian people, and that story is
Speaker 1: that Russia have two clear enemies at the moment, and
Speaker 1: that is Ukraine and the West, and Islamic State doesn't
Speaker 1: really fit into that framework. But you also have to
Speaker 1: understand that a lot of Putent support in Russia comes
Speaker 1: from this perception of Putin as a strong man, as
Speaker 1: somebody who can guarantee the security and safety of Russian
Speaker 1: citizens inside Russia. So the idea that there's a terrorist
Speaker 1: attack inside Russia really doesn't help that perception of Puden,
Speaker 1: especially just after an election.
Speaker 2: Now, I want to move to something that I find
Speaker 2: really interesting about this terrorist attack, and that's that US
Speaker 2: intelligence actually warned that a terrorist attack in Russia was
Speaker 2: imminent earlier this month.
Speaker 1: This is remarkable and it's incredible to see how close
Speaker 1: to the attack these warnings were issued. So earlier this month,
Speaker 1: the US Embassy in Moscow issued an alert to all
Speaker 1: American citizens in the city, and they basically warned them
Speaker 1: to avoid large events, including concerts. They went that specific
Speaker 1: for at least two days. Now, that warning was about
Speaker 1: two weeks before the concert hall attack occurred last Friday night,
Speaker 1: but intelligence officials have confirmed to The New York Times
Speaker 1: that the warning issued by US intelligence was directly related
Speaker 1: to Friday's attack. So they were two weeks off with
Speaker 1: the timing, but they were clearly absolutely right that a
Speaker 1: terror attack was imminent.
Speaker 2: That'sistounding how specific they went that. They literally said, a
Speaker 2: terrorist attack will happen in a concert.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Russia didn't really listen to it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was delivered to Russia, but they didn't really take
Speaker 1: it on board. A couple of days before the attack,
Speaker 1: so like almost a week ago now, Vladimir Putin was
Speaker 1: reported to have dismissed the warning in a speech and
Speaker 1: he called it blackmail. And I think one thing to
Speaker 1: look at to really demonstrate just how underprepared Russia was
Speaker 1: for this attack despite the warnings from other security agencies,
Speaker 1: was how little security there was at the concert hall
Speaker 1: and how long it took emergency services to arrive at
Speaker 1: the scene. I mean, think of you know, you and
Speaker 1: I went to Taylor Swift together, for example. The amount
Speaker 1: of security in Australia and the amount of police and
Speaker 1: emergency services present, it's hard to deny. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that it took fifteen minutes for emergency services to
Speaker 1: arrive and four men could enter the building with semi
Speaker 1: automatic weapons really gives you a sense of how safe
Speaker 1: and how low the risk was in the eyes of
Speaker 1: Russian authorities.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's so astounding. Can you explain intelligence? I feel
Speaker 2: like it's a word we hear a lot about, but
Speaker 2: it's not really something that I've ever heard explained. Can
Speaker 2: you explain how the US have gone about getting this information?
Speaker 1: I think when you hear the word intelligence, just think
Speaker 1: of it as information. It's government code for information, and
Speaker 1: it can be collected covertly, so in secret, and it
Speaker 1: can be restricted to just a few people or given
Speaker 1: to a whole department, or indeed, in this case, it
Speaker 1: is given out publicly. Now, intelligence is what helps governments
Speaker 1: and their agencies understand if there are any threats to
Speaker 1: their nation or to their people in other nations. And
Speaker 1: it can be you know, you could accidentally stumble across
Speaker 1: details of a potential attack in Russia when US officials
Speaker 1: were looking at information about a potential attack in America.
Speaker 1: So it's not always found on purpose, but there is
Speaker 1: this culture of sharing information amongst intelligence agencies, and it
Speaker 1: does seem like that's what the US was hoping to
Speaker 1: happen here, and.
Speaker 2: So Russia must have its own intelligence. But I presume
Speaker 2: their intelligence, like we've gone over, didn't pick up anything
Speaker 2: because they didn't believe that a terrorist attack was imminent.
Speaker 1: Look, intelligence operations in even the most transparent of countries
Speaker 1: are hard to get information out of, so our hopes
Speaker 1: of really understanding how Russian intelligence works are limited here.
Speaker 1: But many international experts are suggesting that it's the fact
Speaker 1: that Russian intelligence bodies, and the one that sticks out
Speaker 1: is its national security agency called the FSB, and Vladimir
Speaker 1: Putin was actually once the head of the FSB. Have
Speaker 1: been so focused on limiting political opposition to Putin inside
Speaker 1: Russia as well as the ongoing war in Ukraine, that
Speaker 1: they fell asleep at the wheel here and they weren't
Speaker 1: noticing the rise of an Islamist terror threat to the country.
Speaker 2: So what happens now.
Speaker 1: Well, the four men at Juda face trial in May,
Speaker 1: and they each face a maximum sentence of life in
Speaker 1: prison under the current terror charges. There's been renewed calls
Speaker 1: across Russia over the last couple of days for the
Speaker 1: death penalty to be brought back. And we got a
Speaker 1: look at the four men when they appeared in court
Speaker 1: earlier this week, and they all weren't in good shape.
Speaker 1: They all looked like they'd been beaten, with black eyes
Speaker 1: and swollen faces.
Speaker 2: I think one man was even in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and one had a bandage over one of
Speaker 1: their ears. Now, this is not something that Russian authorities
Speaker 1: wanted to hide. They literally broadcast photos and videos of
Speaker 1: the detainees around the world and via social media, so
Speaker 1: it's fair to say that the images were a clear
Speaker 1: warning to others connected to the group not to think
Speaker 1: about further attacks, so where are we at well for now.
Speaker 1: At the same time, as more evidence comes out confirming
Speaker 1: Islamic state's involvement, Russia continues to shift the blame to Ukraine.
Speaker 2: And in the days since the attacks, some European countries,
Speaker 2: including France, has raised its national security alert to the
Speaker 2: highest level, saying there could be an attack emergency. So
Speaker 2: it's a story. We will continue to keep an eye on. Sam.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking us through it. Thanks Billy,
Speaker 2: and thank you so much for listening to The Daily Odds.
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Speaker 2: will see you tomorrow.
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda
Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily Ods acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations.
Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
Speaker 2: both past and present,