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Speaker 1: Already, and this is the daily.

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Speaker 2: This is the daily, This is the daily. OAHs, Oh,

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Speaker 2: now it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of March.

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Speaker 2: I'm Sam, I'm Billy.

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Speaker 1: Russia has just experienced its deadliest domestic terror attack in

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Speaker 1: twenty years in Moscow. On Friday, four gunmen stormed a

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Speaker 1: concert hall and killed at least one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: seven people, with another one hundred and forty injured. Now,

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Speaker 1: as the four gunmen faced trial, questions are being asked

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Speaker 1: about the failure of Russian intelligence to foreshadow this attack.

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Speaker 1: This is all despite some very explicit warnings from the

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Speaker 1: US intelligence services only a few weeks ago. We're going

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Speaker 1: to explain what happened, what the world knew, and how

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Speaker 1: Russia is responding all in today's They Dive. But first, Billy,

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Speaker 1: what is making headlines.

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Speaker 2: Legislation to jail immigration detainees who don't cooperate with the

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Speaker 2: deportation process is expected to pass the Senate today. Labour

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Speaker 2: introduced its proposed amendment to the Migration Act in Parliament

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Speaker 2: yesterday with the support of the Coalition. It means non

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Speaker 2: citizens will be required to comply with efforts to ensure

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Speaker 2: their prompt and lawful removal from Australia, otherwise they will

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Speaker 2: face lengthy prison sentences and large fines. It comes amid

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Speaker 2: debate in the High Court over whether the government can

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Speaker 2: lawfully force asylum seekers to leave the country even if

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Speaker 2: they face persecution in their home country.

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Speaker 1: Melbourne's crownd casino will be allowed to keep its license

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Speaker 1: after a Victorian inquiry and Royal Commission had threatened to

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Speaker 1: ban its gambling operation. A twenty twenty one investigation found

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Speaker 1: Crown had been involved in illegal activity, including tax avoidance

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Speaker 1: and money laundering. The state's Gambling and Casino Commission gave

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Speaker 1: Crown two years to quote address the failure it had identified.

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Speaker 1: The Commission says it's now satisfied that the casino has

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Speaker 1: reformed its operations, ruling Crown can keep its casino license.

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Speaker 2: The New Zealand government has raised concerns with the Chinese

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Speaker 2: government over foreign cyber interference. New Zealand's Foreign Minister Winston

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Speaker 2: Peters said officials have spoken to the Chinese ambassadors to

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Speaker 2: address these concerns, which he described as unacceptable. It follows

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Speaker 2: action against alleged Chinese cyber activity by UK and US

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Speaker 2: authorities this week.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news. Scientists at the Australian National University

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Speaker 1: in Canberra have discovered what causes ciiasis. Ciriasis is a

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Speaker 1: skin disease that causes inflammation and skin irritation, which can

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Speaker 1: also lead to arthritis, joint pain and swelling. A and

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Speaker 1: U researchers have now found that a mutation in genes

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Speaker 1: considered quote gatekeepers of the immune system, is the reason

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Speaker 1: people get ciiasis. The breakthrough paves the way for new treatments,

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Speaker 1: earlier diagnosis, and a potential future cure.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Sam, so let's start by you just explaining what

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Speaker 2: exactly happened in Moscow on Friday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So we go back to Friday night for this

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Speaker 1: attack in Moscow, and Moscow is the capital of Russia.

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Speaker 1: About six thousand people were attending a concert at a

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Speaker 1: hall for the Russian rock band Picnic. They play kind

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Speaker 1: of traditional Russian rock. They're very popular, and just before

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Speaker 1: the concert began, at least four gunmen walked into the

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Speaker 1: entry hall carrying semi automatic weapons and wearing camouflage gear

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Speaker 1: and they began to shoot indiscriminately. Now, a lot of

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Speaker 1: this attack is captured on video footage filmed by the

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Speaker 1: terrorists and they posted it straight away on social media,

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Speaker 1: and it is horrific footage of people being shot at

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Speaker 1: point blank range. Then the terrorists start pouring a flammable

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Speaker 1: liquid on the floor and light the building on fire. Now,

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Speaker 1: talk emergency services about fifteen minutes to arrive the scene,

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Speaker 1: and I want to come back later to why that

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Speaker 1: is significant. But in that time the fire had totally

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Speaker 1: engulfed the hall that caused the roof to collapse. The

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Speaker 1: four men escaped, leaving one hundred and thirty seven dead

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Speaker 1: and at least one hundred and forty injured, and that

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Speaker 1: death toll is still expected to grow as emergency services

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Speaker 1: work through the building that is now rubble.

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Speaker 2: And you said that the terrorists got away, but they

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Speaker 2: were captured soon.

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Speaker 1: After, right, Yeah. So on Saturday morning local time, Russian

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Speaker 1: authorities said that they'd arrested eleven people in relation to

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Speaker 1: the attack, and that does include the four gunmen that

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Speaker 1: we can see in the video footage. Now, according to

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Speaker 1: the Russian government, they were taken into custody in a

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Speaker 1: region in the southwest of the country near the Ukrainian border.

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Speaker 1: That's a few hours drive from the concert hall, and

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Speaker 1: according to Russia, they were getting ready to escape into Ukraine. Now,

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Speaker 1: I do just want to mention here that it is

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Speaker 1: incredibly hard for international media to independently verify the reports

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Speaker 1: and statements that we get from the Russian government. But

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Speaker 1: there's been some really amazing journalism I've been reading over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of days by those trying to verify

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Speaker 1: these facts for themselves. And an example is the New

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Speaker 1: York Times. They looked at the video footage and then

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Speaker 1: they looked at the profiles of those men who have

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Speaker 1: been arrested, and they've concluded with relative certainty that they

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Speaker 1: are indeed the same people.

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Speaker 2: And so you've been calling it a terrorist attack. From

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Speaker 2: what I understand, the Islamic State has claimed responsibility for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the men were arrested on Saturday morning. A

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Speaker 1: couple of hours after that, Islamic State claims responsibility for

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Speaker 1: the attack, and they released their own photo of the

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Speaker 1: four masked gunmen. And the Islamic State is a group

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Speaker 1: Australia lists as a terrorist organization, and Islamic State has

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Speaker 1: a deep seated historical hatred towards Russia. Most recently Russia's

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Speaker 1: been involved in a number of military campaigns against the

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Speaker 1: Islamic State. I mean the big one is Syria's civil

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Speaker 1: war in twenty fifteen, and Islamic State since then has

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Speaker 1: vowed vengeance against Russia for its attack in that region.

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Speaker 1: Now as to the specific branch of ISIS that is

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Speaker 1: responsible for the attack, because there's lots of different branches.

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Speaker 1: It's based on where they are, they're particular ideologies. It's

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Speaker 1: believed in Afghanistan based branch called isis K is responsible.

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Speaker 1: In terms of getting more specific of who these men

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Speaker 1: actually are, where exactly they came from, it is still

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Speaker 1: an evolving situation, but I do just want to really

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Speaker 1: emphasize that. I think often we forget that there are

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Speaker 1: deep divisions within the world of Islamic terror organizations. We

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Speaker 1: need to go one step deeper when reporting this kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. And it's not surprising that a friend of Syria,

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Speaker 1: as Russia is, is an enemy of ISIS. And it's

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Speaker 1: just the same way that ISIS and the Taliban attempts

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Speaker 1: to destroy each other. They come from different sides of

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Speaker 1: the political and ideological divide.

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Speaker 2: So the Islamic State has come out and claimed responsibility

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Speaker 2: for this attack. What has the Russian government said in response?

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Speaker 1: Well, firstly, it took Vladimir Putin, who's the Russian president,

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Speaker 1: almost a full day to comment publicly on the attack,

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Speaker 1: and that's a relatively delayed response for a leader after

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Speaker 1: such a severe attack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in Australia and other countries.

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Speaker 1: We'd hear from them in the hours following yea. And

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Speaker 1: then when he did speak publicly, he delivered a five

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Speaker 1: minute speech that was televised to Russia that didn't include

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Speaker 1: a comment on Islamic State taking responsibility. Interesting why, Well,

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Speaker 1: he believes that Ukraine could partly be to blame for this.

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Speaker 1: Putin highlighted the fact that the men were caught fleeing

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Speaker 1: in the direction of Ukraine, and he kind of was

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Speaker 1: suggesting that Ukraine had a direct role in the attack.

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Speaker 1: And then it was only yesterday in another televised speech

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Speaker 1: that Putin acknowledged that what he described as radical Islamists

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Speaker 1: were responsible for the attack. But even then, when he

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Speaker 1: acknowledged that there was this link that Islamic State themselves

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Speaker 1: have identified, he linked it further to what he described

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Speaker 1: as the neo Nazi Kiv regime. And that's obviously a

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Speaker 1: reference to Ukraine. Now, Ukraine's president Vladimir Zelenski has denied

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Speaker 1: any Ukrainian responsibility for the terror attack. In response to

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Speaker 1: the accusations, Zelensky accused Pudin of trying to shift the

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Speaker 1: blame to someone else.

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Speaker 2: So what you're suggesting is that Russia is trying to

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Speaker 2: make this terrorist attack about Ukraine, who they have invaded

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Speaker 2: and they are in a war against, instead of Islamic State,

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Speaker 2: who has claimed responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and to really understand this, you have to zoom

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Speaker 1: out and look at the big narratives in Russia and

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Speaker 1: the big narratives that Vladimir Putin pushes forward through state

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Speaker 1: run media to the Russian people, and that story is

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Speaker 1: that Russia have two clear enemies at the moment, and

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Speaker 1: that is Ukraine and the West, and Islamic State doesn't

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Speaker 1: really fit into that framework. But you also have to

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Speaker 1: understand that a lot of Putent support in Russia comes

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Speaker 1: from this perception of Putin as a strong man, as

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Speaker 1: somebody who can guarantee the security and safety of Russian

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Speaker 1: citizens inside Russia. So the idea that there's a terrorist

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Speaker 1: attack inside Russia really doesn't help that perception of Puden,

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Speaker 1: especially just after an election.

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Speaker 2: Now, I want to move to something that I find

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Speaker 2: really interesting about this terrorist attack, and that's that US

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Speaker 2: intelligence actually warned that a terrorist attack in Russia was

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Speaker 2: imminent earlier this month.

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Speaker 1: This is remarkable and it's incredible to see how close

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Speaker 1: to the attack these warnings were issued. So earlier this month,

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Speaker 1: the US Embassy in Moscow issued an alert to all

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Speaker 1: American citizens in the city, and they basically warned them

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Speaker 1: to avoid large events, including concerts. They went that specific

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Speaker 1: for at least two days. Now, that warning was about

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Speaker 1: two weeks before the concert hall attack occurred last Friday night,

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Speaker 1: but intelligence officials have confirmed to The New York Times

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Speaker 1: that the warning issued by US intelligence was directly related

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Speaker 1: to Friday's attack. So they were two weeks off with

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Speaker 1: the timing, but they were clearly absolutely right that a

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Speaker 1: terror attack was imminent.

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Speaker 2: That'sistounding how specific they went that. They literally said, a

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Speaker 2: terrorist attack will happen in a concert.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Russia didn't really listen to it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was delivered to Russia, but they didn't really take

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Speaker 1: it on board. A couple of days before the attack,

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Speaker 1: so like almost a week ago now, Vladimir Putin was

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Speaker 1: reported to have dismissed the warning in a speech and

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Speaker 1: he called it blackmail. And I think one thing to

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Speaker 1: look at to really demonstrate just how underprepared Russia was

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Speaker 1: for this attack despite the warnings from other security agencies,

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Speaker 1: was how little security there was at the concert hall

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Speaker 1: and how long it took emergency services to arrive at

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Speaker 1: the scene. I mean, think of you know, you and

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Speaker 1: I went to Taylor Swift together, for example. The amount

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Speaker 1: of security in Australia and the amount of police and

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Speaker 1: emergency services present, it's hard to deny. And so the

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Speaker 1: fact that it took fifteen minutes for emergency services to

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Speaker 1: arrive and four men could enter the building with semi

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Speaker 1: automatic weapons really gives you a sense of how safe

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Speaker 1: and how low the risk was in the eyes of

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Speaker 1: Russian authorities.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it's so astounding. Can you explain intelligence? I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's a word we hear a lot about, but

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Speaker 2: it's not really something that I've ever heard explained. Can

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Speaker 2: you explain how the US have gone about getting this information?

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Speaker 1: I think when you hear the word intelligence, just think

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Speaker 1: of it as information. It's government code for information, and

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Speaker 1: it can be collected covertly, so in secret, and it

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Speaker 1: can be restricted to just a few people or given

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Speaker 1: to a whole department, or indeed, in this case, it

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Speaker 1: is given out publicly. Now, intelligence is what helps governments

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Speaker 1: and their agencies understand if there are any threats to

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Speaker 1: their nation or to their people in other nations. And

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Speaker 1: it can be you know, you could accidentally stumble across

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Speaker 1: details of a potential attack in Russia when US officials

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Speaker 1: were looking at information about a potential attack in America.

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Speaker 1: So it's not always found on purpose, but there is

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Speaker 1: this culture of sharing information amongst intelligence agencies, and it

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Speaker 1: does seem like that's what the US was hoping to

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Speaker 1: happen here, and.

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Speaker 2: So Russia must have its own intelligence. But I presume

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Speaker 2: their intelligence, like we've gone over, didn't pick up anything

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Speaker 2: because they didn't believe that a terrorist attack was imminent.

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Speaker 1: Look, intelligence operations in even the most transparent of countries

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Speaker 1: are hard to get information out of, so our hopes

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Speaker 1: of really understanding how Russian intelligence works are limited here.

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Speaker 1: But many international experts are suggesting that it's the fact

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Speaker 1: that Russian intelligence bodies, and the one that sticks out

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Speaker 1: is its national security agency called the FSB, and Vladimir

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Speaker 1: Putin was actually once the head of the FSB. Have

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Speaker 1: been so focused on limiting political opposition to Putin inside

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Speaker 1: Russia as well as the ongoing war in Ukraine, that

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Speaker 1: they fell asleep at the wheel here and they weren't

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Speaker 1: noticing the rise of an Islamist terror threat to the country.

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Speaker 2: So what happens now.

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Speaker 1: Well, the four men at Juda face trial in May,

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Speaker 1: and they each face a maximum sentence of life in

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Speaker 1: prison under the current terror charges. There's been renewed calls

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Speaker 1: across Russia over the last couple of days for the

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Speaker 1: death penalty to be brought back. And we got a

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Speaker 1: look at the four men when they appeared in court

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Speaker 1: earlier this week, and they all weren't in good shape.

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Speaker 1: They all looked like they'd been beaten, with black eyes

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Speaker 1: and swollen faces.

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Speaker 2: I think one man was even in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and one had a bandage over one of

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Speaker 1: their ears. Now, this is not something that Russian authorities

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Speaker 1: wanted to hide. They literally broadcast photos and videos of

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Speaker 1: the detainees around the world and via social media, so

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Speaker 1: it's fair to say that the images were a clear

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Speaker 1: warning to others connected to the group not to think

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Speaker 1: about further attacks, so where are we at well for now.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, as more evidence comes out confirming

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Speaker 1: Islamic state's involvement, Russia continues to shift the blame to Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: And in the days since the attacks, some European countries,

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Speaker 2: including France, has raised its national security alert to the

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Speaker 2: highest level, saying there could be an attack emergency. So

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Speaker 2: it's a story. We will continue to keep an eye on. Sam.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking us through it. Thanks Billy,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much for listening to The Daily Odds.

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Speaker 2: We are a small independent media company and if you

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Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or if you're listening on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: you can hit subscribe. Thank you so much and we

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Speaker 2: will see you tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily Ods acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations.

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Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 2: both past and present,