1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy Kate and 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: Sophie Torber. We're identical triplets, but we often don't have 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: all things reality TV, influencers, entertainment, and issues facing women. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 2: That is so fatch. 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: Thank you. On today's episode, we're talking all things beauty, 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: business and influencer marketing with Sarah Hamilton, who co founded 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: popular beauty brands Bella Box and sand and Sky. Sarah 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: and her twin sister Emily have grown their subscription beauty 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: service Bella Box from the ground up, securing over forty 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: thousand subscribers and seeing off thirteen competitors in their nine 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: years of business. Sarah shares her advice on how to 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: get started in the industry and how to make your 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: mark on the business world. So thank you so much 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: for joining us, Sarah. Now, we thought we'd get stuck 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: in to today's episode by training some twin andch bitlet 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: stories because just like us, you work with your twin sister. 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: So what is it like working alongside your sister. 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: It's funny, it's definitely a question that I get asked 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 2: a lot and I reflect on it sometimes and it's 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 2: obviously for you girls to say as well. But I 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 2: actually think it's probably easier than working with a friend, 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 2: because I think with a friendly tiptoe. 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 3: Around issues a bit more. 26 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 2: And with the sibling you're probably like, since you know, 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: we were born, we've been arguing about various things, so 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: you're a lot less worried about offending, perhaps, so you 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: get through a lot of the crap that you need 30 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:39,919 Speaker 2: to quite quickly. 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: So how do you guys actually deal with your disagreements 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: because I suppose with us we find that we can 33 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: just be super honest, but sometimes that can be a 34 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: problem as well. 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: We're definitely honest, but I feel like as we get older, 36 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: we're more respectful of our differences. So now we probably 37 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: you know, with our first business together, we were probably 38 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 2: like baiting each other, but more so Exand and Scott 39 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: I always need to laugh about because we've never worked 40 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 2: in the same country together. Emily's in Singapore and I'm 41 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 2: in Australia. So with fellow box, you know, I would 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: be like angry typing over Scott, And now I'm probably 43 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: a bit more like, why don't I give her a 44 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: call and let me just chat to it politely And 45 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: we know where we're sensitive, so we try to say 46 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 2: it in a nice way. Yeah, so I think we're 47 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 2: probably just matured a bit more and you're yeah, you're 48 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: definitely more respectful. 49 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: So your advice is just to move to different countries. 50 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: And then. 51 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: I always said that made it easier. It is nice 52 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: to hang out in person, but definitely if you need 53 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: a bit of me time, it's obviously a lot easier 54 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: if you don't have to see each other in that 55 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 2: cross the offer. 56 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: Now, you both grew up with parents who are entrepreneurs. 57 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: Do you think that's what ignited your passion for business? 58 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. I think that as we grew up, it 59 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: was all around us. You know, that's one of his 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 2: first businesses with the carpet shop, which sounds funny now, 61 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: And you know we would go and have to put 62 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 2: pamphlets in, you know, like sale pamphlets in other pamphlets 63 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: and then do letterbox drop letterbox drop drops and so 64 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: when you remember those sort of things, and that would 65 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: be on a Saturday and he would buy fish and 66 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: chips and we'd sit in this room with the other 67 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: owners and their kids putting all these pamphlets into sort 68 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: of envelopes, and it. 69 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 3: Felt very normal. 70 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: So I think for us, we saw our parents working 71 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: that way and it felt natural, and then you were 72 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: probably less scared about the risk that you normally take 73 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: if you go into your own business. 74 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: You often hear a lot from really successful entrepreneurs like 75 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: Gary Vee. You know, he was selling trading cards and 76 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: mowing lawns and all of that kind of stuff. And 77 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: I understand you would you know, you were working in 78 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: the bakery when you were young and mac donald's. Do 79 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: you think it is good for young people to do 80 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: a job that just I suppose sort of get to 81 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: know what the business world is like. Yeah. 82 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: So we so actually our first business together as we 83 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: made Christmas reefs out alling. 84 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: I love that. 85 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: And we lived in this in Geelong, so in this 86 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: dead end street, which is a really beautiful street, and 87 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: there are lots of lovely old grandparents that also lived 88 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 2: in the streets, so they were almost compelled to buy 89 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: from these young girls twins, so you know, double the trouble. 90 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: But and I think just yeah, that confidence with presenting 91 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: things to people, which again felt quite normal and then 92 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 2: working again. I sort of reflect on it now having kids. 93 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: It feels like kids now are not pressured to work 94 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: because it's almost like, oh, school works, you know, all important. 95 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. 96 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: But I really felt like I was laughing about this 97 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: because McDonald's thing does come up. You know. I worked 98 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: because I wanted to go to eighteenth and I wanted 99 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: to buy my own sparkly dresses that were probably too 100 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: short for my mum to buy for me. Like it 101 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: was just a sort of means to an end, and. 102 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 3: I was really happy with it. 103 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: But it was my own money, so I had that responsibility, 104 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: I suppose quite early, and I do think it's important 105 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: because otherwise, you know, especially now, your parents are just 106 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 2: paying it with a credit card and you're not valuing 107 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: anything that you're doing because everything. 108 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: Is given to you. 109 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: So it was definitely for me, it was like I 110 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: have to have a job, and then I used that money. 111 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: I didn't ask mum and dad for money. I use 112 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: the money that I earned. 113 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: That's really cool, especially I mean especially working at McDonald's, 114 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: which you know has a bit of a stigma around it. 115 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: But obviously after McDonald's you moved into work in finance, 116 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: and you actually went to London and New York, which 117 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: sounds amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about that. 118 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 3: It was super fun. 119 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: So London, and I've said this before, is like a 120 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 2: pub a New York's like a winebar. But London, I 121 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: mean like lived in a house with six friends, like ridiculous. 122 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: But it was so much fun. And we all had 123 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 2: quite serious jobs, even though we went out all the time, 124 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: and again was just and the Australian work f co 125 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: over in London was really revered, like people were excited 126 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: to have Australians work for them. Obviously they had to 127 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: pay them out about their accents as well, but again 128 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: it was it was about starting again, you know, renting 129 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: a house and trying to get a bank account and 130 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: mobile phone and all these silly things that you take 131 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 2: for granted now, but when you throw yourself in a 132 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: new country and you've got a random visa, it's actually 133 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: quite hard. So it was so much fun. We were 134 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: all in the same boat. We were going out together 135 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: and even got to the point where mom and Dad 136 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 2: were like, you know, I'm sick of you being away 137 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: at Christmas. The rules are you can live overseas, but 138 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: you have to come home for every Christmas. So from 139 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: there it was just like okay, cool. You know, your 140 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: friends became your family. But it just provided a completely 141 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: different experience and gave you a different worldview. 142 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 3: And New York was exactly the same. 143 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: Now you were overseas when your sister came up with 144 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: the idea for Bella Box, And I feel like that's 145 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: very good of you to acknowledge that she came up 146 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: with the idea. 147 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: A few years older. 148 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: Can you tell us about how the idea came about 149 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: and what exactly Bella Box is for those who might 150 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: not know. 151 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: Yes, So the idea was totally inspired by Birch Box, 152 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: which launched in the US, and there's a beauty sampling 153 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: service so each month you get a box with five 154 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: samples of beauty products. And it was came up. 155 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: It was actually a project. 156 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: Two Harvard girls did it as a project and they 157 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: presented it and they were like, okay, this is a business. 158 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: And it was funny for us because and Emily saw 159 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: it first. These two girls had no background in beauty, 160 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: but they had the means to buy beauty products and 161 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: they didn't really understand them. And so Emily, who's more 162 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: from the marketing side, came up to New York and 163 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: she's like, we can do this, Like you kind of 164 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: know finance and management and I know marketing, and guess what, 165 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: there's these two girls that have no idea about beauty, 166 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: but they've made this a success. 167 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: So from there we were. 168 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, okay, cool, let's and she very much said 169 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: to me, it's time for you to come home. You 170 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: spent four years in New York doing this business together. 171 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: You've got to grow up. And so it just started 172 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: from there. It was just really an idea that was 173 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: inspired by what someone else is doing, and especially that 174 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: we could relate to the fact that we aren't very 175 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: good at beauty. 176 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: I think one of the hardest things for people who 177 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: are starting a new business is to come up with 178 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: the name. And I love the name. Did you guys 179 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: come up with it straight away or what was kind 180 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: of the process. 181 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: We did because Bella was our first dog, which is 182 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: really random. We're a very much dog family, and she 183 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: was a beautiful black Labrador and Bellow obviously is Italians 184 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: to beautiful, so it was kind of an easy name 185 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: to come for a dog. But again, it felt quite 186 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: tangible and quite practical, which is what we wanted it 187 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: to be. We didn't want it to be too flowery, 188 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: I suppose, because that was where we were at with 189 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: our beauty journey. It was more a practical but something 190 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: that we really loved. And the name obviously meant a 191 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: lot to us because your first dog never gets. 192 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: Gotten, well, that's gorgeous. I love that. I love it 193 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,599 Speaker 1: even more now. Another time, there were a number of 194 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: other subscription based beauty businesses that were starting to pop up. 195 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: What do you think it was about bella box that 196 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: stood the test of time and kind of stood out 197 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,359 Speaker 1: from those other businesses. 198 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: So while we're in planning, so while I was still 199 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: in New York, I was just about to go up 200 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: the brunch Andly called me and she was like, oh 201 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: my god, I'd have a look. There's you know, there's 202 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: a landing page for another beauty box. And that was 203 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: really worrying because we thought, Okay, we're on something, but 204 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 2: it's not yet in Australia in Singapore, and it'll be 205 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: really exciting. But very quickly, you know, I think we 206 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: had eleven competitors come and go, and I think, you know, 207 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: for us because again we don't really know, Biddy. We 208 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: found the beauty world a little bit catty, which is, 209 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 2: you know, quite sad, you know, and and so it 210 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: was quite catchy, like it was quite mean with the 211 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 2: competitors for a while there, and we always took the 212 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: view it was almost like one eye on the competition, 213 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: but really the other on what we wanted to do 214 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: and what we believed this business concept meant and what 215 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 2: it would mean for the customer. And so the less 216 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 2: that we worried about the competition, the more that we 217 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: were able to chart our own course. And I think 218 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: by sticking true to that, then the customer understands that 219 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: as opposed to being worried about which brand has gone 220 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: with which box, it was more about how the customer 221 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: felt when they received our product and how we've worked 222 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: to improve that. We just didn't want to get caught 223 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 2: up in the noise. 224 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: Do you think it was helpful to come into the 225 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,239 Speaker 1: industry with those fresh eyes. 226 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: I really do, just because we had no idea, and 227 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 2: I think it was like again, like as a consumer, see, 228 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: a lot of people know about beauty, and there's a 229 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: decent amount of population that was super into it, but 230 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: there's huge amount of the population that just aren't and 231 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 2: they need to be educated. So we were really like, great, 232 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: if you know about it cool, then we obviously have 233 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: to educate ourselves so that we sound intelligent. We hire 234 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: the right people that can talk to you in that language. 235 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: But also for everyone else, we understand that this is 236 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: a sort of a pursue everyone's into, but they might 237 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: beyond sort of different levels. So I think by being, 238 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: you know, standing back and being able to say not 239 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: everyone you know a beauty writer, then you just capture 240 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: a much larger audience and you. 241 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: Don't alienate people. 242 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: I think you want a brand that's aspirational, but again 243 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: doesn't alienate, Like, can't be so cool that you feel 244 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: nervous to walk into a store. I think you don't 245 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: want to be that brand. I think you have to 246 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 2: be relatable. 247 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: You mentioned that some of the other brands are a 248 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: bit catty. Are there any sort of examples that might 249 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: shock people, because you often hear these rumors about how 250 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: different brands or businesses might act, and it often sounds 251 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: extremely petty. Without naming any names, have you had any 252 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: sort of like hilarious stories you could share. 253 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: One of our first meetings was hilarious, and we hired 254 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: because we didn't have a background you doing. We quickly 255 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: hired two girls that are our brand managers that had 256 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: amazing backgrounds because we were like, we're not going to 257 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: pretend that we know about the viney world. And one 258 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: of the meetings where I was presenting, and it was 259 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: quite quite a big group of uny buyers and literally 260 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: one of the girls that was in the BlackBerry days, 261 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: but she was on her phone messaging on her BlackBerry 262 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: while I was presenting, and I for the first time 263 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: in my life, I just never been in a meeting 264 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: where someone would be that rude. And I was just 265 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: and she seemed like she was maybe nineteen, so I 266 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: was really quite old, so. 267 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: I was thirty. 268 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that to me was just really like, wow, 269 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 2: you just you think you're so good that you just 270 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: you just want to be rude, Whereas I'm kind of like, 271 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: I liked banter. So I go into a meeting and 272 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: I chat for a while, and I like to get 273 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: to know people. I've never been in a meeting in 274 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: my life where someone would be so blatantly rude, and 275 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 2: that's when I thought. 276 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 3: Oh, wow, this is like, this is different from. 277 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: What I've experienced in life. So that's probably the one 278 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: that has totally burnt in my mind that I'm just like, 279 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: I let me never be that person. I never want 280 00:12:58,520 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: to be that person. 281 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: Well, having it experience that, what would be your advice 282 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: young women who are starting out in the business world 283 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: to dealing with that cattiness. 284 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: I think it could be true to yourself. Much like 285 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: you one eye on the competition. You know, you're never 286 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: going to you can't change someone, but you can be 287 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: the best person that you can be, and I would 288 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: much And I've got kids now, so I'd much rather 289 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: be the friendly person than the beach like. 290 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: I hate that. 291 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: I and even as we employ people, I'm like, the 292 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: one thing that I hate is bitchiness. And if you 293 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: do it, then you're out. That's just as simple as 294 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: it gets. So I think you know, when you're younger, 295 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 2: you probably seek out drama more, but it's boring, you know, like, 296 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: have a great life and do exciting things and just really, 297 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 2: especially when you're young, don't claim to that drama. 298 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: It's just not worth it and it's really mean. 299 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: Well, something that I love about your business is that 300 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: both you and your sister add different strengths to it, 301 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: and I feel like that's something that we do in 302 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: our business as well. Can you tell us about how 303 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: you broke up the roles? 304 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: So, I think just quite naturally, like Emily is more 305 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 2: on the marketing side, and because I've done more operations 306 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: finance side, that was a natural delineation. But then we 307 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: really loved the brand and we wanted to you know, 308 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: we knew what we wanted to create. So with that, 309 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: we still work together in elements. But again, she's excellent branding, 310 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: she's a really great at product, so I always defer 311 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: to her, but I don't let myself not have an opinion. 312 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: So I think that's how we're able to work it out. 313 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: We still know where our strengths are and we always 314 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: provide an opinion, but we're willing to listen to each other. 315 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: What was it like when you went from just being 316 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: you and your sister to then starting to employ new 317 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: people into the business, and how did you go about 318 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: that expansion phase? 319 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 2: So with Bello Box, we did it straight away, and 320 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: with sand and Sky we actually brought some people over 321 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: from Balla Box, so it was like, you know, people. 322 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: That we'd worked with before. 323 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: And we knew how they worked, and I think especially 324 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: with age, you get to understand what sort of employee 325 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: is you want to hire and what you expect them from. 326 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: With us, we love people that are ambitious, you know, 327 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: no bitchiness life. We love people that are full of 328 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 2: new ideas. So it was really about trying to understand 329 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: what sort of personality and what sort of fit and 330 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: work ethic that you want from people, and that helped 331 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: helped us hire the best people. 332 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: And going on from that expansion, you then obviously opened 333 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: up your second business, stand in Sky, which is another 334 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: hugely successful business in the beauty industry. How did the 335 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: second business come about? 336 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: So, I think you know, through years of learning how 337 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: to promote other people's brands, like almost being that middleman, 338 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 2: and especially once we started bella Box, it was very 339 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: much at the start of Facebook and so social media 340 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 2: and influencers were so big, so I think it was 341 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: just almost a crash marketing course on how to promote 342 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: your own brand. And so from that we were a 343 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: bit like, wait a minute, you know what about we 344 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: create a brand? Like can't we do this? We now 345 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: know a lot more about beauty and we think we 346 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: understand what people want out of a product and out 347 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: of a brand, and so from there that was the 348 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: idea and then it just blossomed from there and obviously 349 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 2: a lot of hard work to then get to the 350 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: point where we were able to launch our first product. 351 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: Well, talking about influencers, there has been a lot of 352 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: discussion about influencers worth I suppose it's been brought up 353 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen. A lot of brands have obviously had 354 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: to drop some influencers. Do you think that the influencer 355 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: trend will continue to be just as successful as it 356 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: was pre Covid? 357 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 3: I think it will evolve. 358 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we work now with a lot more micro 359 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: influencers that we've done in the past, and we definitely 360 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: value more our customer. So we launched a new enzyme 361 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: polish two weeks ago and we did a customer event 362 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: to thirty people, and that was the second customer event 363 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: we did it virtually. Of course, that was the second 364 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 2: customer event that we'd done with the first one with 365 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: our bodies. And in February we had influencers emailing us 366 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: because they were. 367 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: Upset that we had a party and we had. 368 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: Fielding is the most hilarious thing but for us, I 369 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 2: think it's evolving, like what is an influencer And I 370 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: think right now it focuses more on customers. But you 371 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: still like the value of the Kim Kardashian talking about 372 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: your product, if she does it sincerely, is still extremely 373 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: valuable because people are following these people and they want 374 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 2: to learn about products. So I think for us too, 375 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 2: it's with the influencers. We want them to educate. It's 376 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 2: not about just them taking a selfie with the mask on, 377 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: It's about them talking about how they use product, why 378 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 2: they use the product. So sort of morphing influence influencers 379 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 2: from just that selfie into more content. 380 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: That's really cool. Do you think that you do get 381 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: more value with micro influencers because we work in PR 382 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: and we have heard that happen that sometimes they're reach 383 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: far outweighs someone like a Shany Grimman who's got a 384 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: million followers, like they're targeted reaching. Yeah, people believe more. 385 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: I suppose in theming totally. 386 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: Like I think early with Standards guy, we looked up 387 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 2: that we looked at makeup influencers, So those creating really 388 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: amazing makeup looks, We're like, well, everyone finishes their video, 389 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: so let's go to them. So they would literally have 390 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 2: you know, three hundred followers and we would get such 391 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: amazing reach from that. So for us, it was like, yeah, 392 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: what drives more engagement? And I think sometimes micro can 393 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: It does look more sincere, but I also think there's 394 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: some big influences that, again when they're sincere and when 395 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: they driving gragement, can. 396 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: Give you that value. 397 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: But as I said, the customer events that we've done 398 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 2: have been extremely value valuable, and we've got really good 399 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: content that we can then use for advertising because it's 400 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: real girls using our products and talking about our products 401 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: and getting excided. 402 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: That's so cool. If there is anyone that's listening, because 403 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: we have a lot of sort of twenty to thirty 404 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: five year olds listening, and I know a lot of 405 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: our audience are interested in starting a business, would you 406 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: recommend that as a great marketing strategy to start at 407 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: we get micro influencers or other influencers on board. What 408 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: would your best tips I suppose to when people go 409 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: to market. 410 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: I think definitely starting small. I think being smart. I 411 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: think you learn so much more with those micro influencers. 412 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 2: So what content resonates and instead of paying you know, 413 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars you've paid free product to get that learning. 414 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 2: So I think there's so much that you have in 415 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: your head about what might work on social media, but 416 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: until you put yourself out there, until you try it 417 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: and you see the results, you're not going to know. 418 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: So if something slow, I would, you know, has just started, 419 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: then I would totally go low with spend and try 420 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 2: to learn more about what drives engaging content with your 421 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 2: product than just spending a heap of money and then 422 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: you know, next week you're being like, oh my god, 423 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: that doesn't work. And I've seen a couple of vidy 424 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 2: brands do that recently which I won't name, but big launches, 425 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: big influencers, and then two thousand followers later, they've just 426 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: got nothing. So I think you've got to build it 427 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: up with grounds well, and even with sand and Sky. 428 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: We you know, when we first really started taking off 429 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: in the first couple of months, it wasn't influences, it 430 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: was customers because it was when a lot of brands 431 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 2: were launching and then they were shipping out of China 432 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: and you know, didn't really have. 433 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: A brand story behind them. 434 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 2: That that was very important to us, and so I 435 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: don't know if you've seen, but we once, you know, 436 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 2: someone said they're made in China and we were like, oh, 437 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: we're not. And so we took a photo of the 438 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: staff in our boardroom and our old offices on the 439 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: corner of Elizabeth and Flinder's Lane in Melbourne, and so 440 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: we had a tram going past. I don't know what 441 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: else to say that product, and it was customers that said, 442 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 2: I know, we're their offices, I've got their products. They're amazing, 443 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: and we were like, oh my god. 444 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 3: Really, okay, that's cool. 445 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 2: So then we were like, wow, it's not the influencers, 446 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: it's the customers that then drive Couse were like I've 447 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: tried it, I love it, you know, And for us, 448 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: reviews really important, So forget I think, Yeah, obviously the 449 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: most important person are always the customer. 450 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Well, it's getting that product right first, isn't it, because 451 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: then you are going to get that loyal customer base 452 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: that will vouch for you, they'll vouch that you're not 453 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: in China and all of those sorts of things. 454 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 455 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: Look, and I think for us as well, that was 456 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: the most important thing. And again probably they like a 457 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: beauty break background help because you're impatient for something to work. 458 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: And I think that's what bella Box taught us as well, 459 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: is that you need instant results. You know, publishing something 460 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: and saying in two weeks your fine line will be 461 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 2: reduced is just not good enough anymore. On social media, 462 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: lays like I am not waiting two weeks for that 463 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 2: thing to work. So all of our products have that 464 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: in mind. It's like you need to put it on 465 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: and you need to feel the difference, otherwise it doesn't 466 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 2: make the cup. 467 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: And as Amy touched on another moment, we're seeing a 468 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: huge rise in the number of young women starting up 469 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: their own businesses. Why do you think it is that 470 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: women are taking the plunge at the moment? 471 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 2: I think, you know, platform like Shop of Rise have 472 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: afforded us the opportunity to give it a go. And 473 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: I think women, you know, are more risk tas risk 474 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 2: taking than men sometimes and maybe that's because men more 475 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: men of the breadwinners, Like I don't know. I think 476 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 2: it's a really hard question, but I'm really lucky to 477 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 2: have lots of friends that have started their own business, 478 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: and a lot some of them have started a little 479 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: bit later, but definitely the opportunity is there, and especially 480 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 2: when your household living costs are lower, that would be 481 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: my time to do it. And I think too, with 482 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: the rise of social media, I mean, and we say 483 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: this internally too, that shouldn't be a job. Social media 484 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: that is what you're doing all of the time. 485 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 3: So if you master it outside. 486 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: Your work and then you've got a really cool product idea, 487 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: then you should be well on your way. 488 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: To having a successful company. 489 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: You know it, Like I can't even do an Instagram 490 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: live by myself. I was laughing about the other day business, 491 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: So that's something like this is you know that that 492 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,239 Speaker 2: business opportunity through social media is all around and it's 493 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 2: something that people are doing every single day. They just 494 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 2: need to be able to I think, well, it's good 495 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: to connect the dots and understand how you can turn 496 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: that skill, which is a skill as long the right 497 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: product into something that sells well. 498 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: In terms of time saving for people who are starting 499 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: out with a business. Often people say that it is 500 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: always good to get someone in. I suppose that, for example, 501 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, if you're a pr business, hire a videographer 502 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: and pay them a certain rate and you get paid 503 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: X amount, would you advise people to do that that 504 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: it is better rather than just doing everything yourself. You know, 505 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: how important is time when you're starting up a business. 506 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 2: I think it's really important, and I think it's not 507 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: only time, but you want to present yourself as being professional. 508 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: So if you've got a videographer, as you said, and 509 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: you're trying to do that yourself, you should notice the 510 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: massive difference between the output you can do and then 511 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 2: then what they can do. So it's really about, yeah, 512 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: where is the most valuable input of my time in 513 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: this business. And if I've had to pay someone two 514 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: hundred dollars or three hundred dollars, but I get such 515 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: a good result, then great. Like even with our first 516 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: PR agency, PR girl that we used, you know, we 517 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 2: paid her post per picture because we were like, okay, 518 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: well we need to make sure that that third party 519 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 2: cost is in line with exposure that we get and 520 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 2: money that we can then earn. So it was almost 521 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: like a commission model that we were like okay, cool, 522 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: and we did little things like that. We were like, okay, 523 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: well we don't want to overspend to start, and we 524 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 2: want to be able to say, look, if you get 525 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 2: lots of pieces and then you keep getting paid and 526 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 2: she did very very well, so that worked out for her. 527 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: But little things like that, I think it's good to 528 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: look at. You shouldn't spend ten grand on a launch 529 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 2: event if there's just other little things that you could 530 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: be doing to build up that business and then to 531 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: allow you to concentrate on what you can execute. 532 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: Well, we'll talking about spending your time and maximizing your 533 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: time the best you can. Of course, one of your 534 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: other roles is being a mother. How do you balance 535 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: time between your businesses and being a mum. 536 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 2: I think I just try to and you know, I'm 537 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: certainly not perfect. I try to be present when my 538 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: kids are around. They're all luckily at school now, but 539 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: they also understand that I work, and then they appreciate that. 540 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 2: So I think it's there. On the weekends, I really 541 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 2: try not to do too much work. I wait till 542 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: they're asleep, you know. I just try to do little 543 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 2: things that then makes them feel that I'm not, you know, 544 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 2: hitting my phone or on my laptops the whole time. 545 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: There's been lots of talk about the term mumpreneur. What 546 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: do you think about it? And also a girl boss. 547 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: Everyone's a girl boss. And a month preneur. 548 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 2: Now, oh my god, I hate it. I want bit 549 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: a panel and they're like, we interview you afterwards because 550 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: we want to talk about mumpreneurs. And I'm like, I 551 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 2: am not going to do the panel. Yeah, I just 552 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: think I and I actually don't think I'm an entrepreneur. 553 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: I just think I'm a business woman. I like run 554 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: businesses kind of what I like. I'm just in business 555 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: like I don't. Yeah, I don't like exlination. I do 556 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 2: not like being called out for being a girl boss. 557 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: And we have been asked to do introduced for TV. 558 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,239 Speaker 2: I'm talking about that and I refuse one and I 559 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to tell my stuff. Hey, 560 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: you've got to talk about the fact that you've got 561 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: a female as a boss, because I don't want them 562 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 2: to think that that's a thing. So yeah, I absolutely 563 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: hate it. I just think it's you know, I don't 564 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: mind for click bait because obviously. 565 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 3: Pr is always good, but I really, you know, I. 566 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 2: Found hard having a business and you talk to people 567 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 2: in their immediate assumption assumption is that you're knitting booties 568 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: at home and you don't have an office, Like I 569 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 2: think that you know, it's a tough one. Obviously, there's 570 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 2: lots of different stereotypes that are a lot harder to 571 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: steal with, but yeah, it's one that really frustrates me. 572 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the term just all sets us back. 573 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it shouldn't be a big thing that there 574 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: is a woman boss or a mum working. It just 575 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: should be the norm. There's also great that you're saying no, 576 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: that you're not going to participate in interviews that are 577 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: sort of portraying you in that way, because I think 578 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: that's what more women have to do, because everyone's like, oh, yeah, 579 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: I'll just say I'm a girl boss, but you're just 580 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: a boss. 581 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're just thank you. 582 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: But definitely because even I was laking my daughter, who's 583 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: my eldest. I had to do a panel and it 584 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: was women in business and she's like, and they get 585 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: excited because there's typically a present and involves chocolates. It's like, oh, 586 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: what are you doing in stay cool, like but you know, 587 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: make sure you're brings heads at home. And she said, 588 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 2: what are you talking about today? And I said, I 589 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: won't say women in business. I was like, oh, it's 590 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 2: about being in business and she was like boring, you know, 591 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: female business, which is actually even more boring talking about 592 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: being a business. 593 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 3: So yeah, I. 594 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: Think it's I think it will change. And you know, 595 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 2: I'm lucky to have great friends and it's not They 596 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 2: don't think about me as being a female in business. 597 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: So I think it's something that we will slowly get over, 598 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 2: but it definitely is hanging. 599 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: Around, definitely. Well, just lastly, what would be your message 600 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: to young women who are listening to this, who are 601 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: thinking of starting their own business. 602 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 2: I am not a massive, massive planner like I think 603 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 2: you need to take that risk. Come up with your 604 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: idea and start feeding it out there. Get like shine 605 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: up for a shopply account. So I don't even know 606 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: what it costs anymore, but it's obviously really cheap. And 607 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: push yourself like you will. If it doesn't work, you 608 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: will get a job. It will work out, like I 609 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: always us to Luf. I've moved to New York without 610 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: being employed, and I mom was like, oh, what are. 611 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 3: You going to do? 612 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,239 Speaker 2: And I said, you know what, I'll work in a 613 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: cafe if I need to. I haven't worked in a 614 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: cafe since. 615 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 3: I was like being a what about that? 616 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: I was always like, I just don't worry about the failure. 617 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: Just give it a go and if it doesn't what 618 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 2: you will still survive. Something else will come up, but 619 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with trying to give something and go. 620 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: That's amazing advice. Well, thank you so much for taking 621 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: the time and joining us today. We've loved having a 622 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: chat to you. 623 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. 624 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 2: It's been really lovely. My kids will just arrive time. 625 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: Actually, well, thank you so much for tuning into another 626 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: episode ab Outspoken. If you did enjoy today's show, we'd 627 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: love if you could tag us in your Insta story 628 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: so we can reshare it. Thanks so much.