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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ozs. Happy Friday.

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Speaker 2: It's the eleventh of August. I'm Azara Sidler.

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Speaker 3: I'm Sam Becauseloski Australian.

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Speaker 2: Artists Jack River and Josh Pike have supported a push

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Speaker 2: in Parliament to remove limits on how much radio stations

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Speaker 2: pay artists. But what is this limit and why does

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Speaker 2: it exist in the first place. Singer Jack River is

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Speaker 2: going to explain what you need to know in today's

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Speaker 2: deep Dive.

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Speaker 4: We absolutely love and rely on radio and you know,

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Speaker 4: want to be besties all the time, but sometimes.

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Speaker 2: You've got to ask for money from your besties.

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Speaker 5: After the money, you know.

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Speaker 2: The first Sam, there was some big news out of

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Speaker 2: Ecuador yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was some very dramatic video. A presidential candidate

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Speaker 3: known for speaking out against corruption in Ecuador has been

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Speaker 3: assassinated less than two weeks before polls open. Fernando Via

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Speaker 3: Vincensio was shot dead at a campaign rally in the

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Speaker 3: Ecuadorian capital. The country's president, who isn't seeking reelection, said

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Speaker 3: his death will not go unpunished.

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Speaker 2: PM Anthony Albanesi has confirmed he's accepted an invitation from

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden for a trip to the US in October.

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Speaker 2: The three day visit will include a state dinner with

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Speaker 2: a president at the White House, and it comes as

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Speaker 2: Congress in the US considers legislation on the Orcus nuclear

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Speaker 2: submarine deal.

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Speaker 3: A review into WA's handling of COVID nineteen has recommended

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Speaker 3: better access to mental health support and improved efforts to

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Speaker 3: counter vaccine misinformation. The independent review into the state government's

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Speaker 3: pandemic management is the first of its kind in Australia.

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Speaker 3: The government has supported all thirty five of the review's recommendations.

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Speaker 2: And the good News. A thirteen year old soccer player

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Speaker 2: has made history as the youngest American team sports athlete

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Speaker 2: to go pro. Davian Kimbro signed a professional contract with

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Speaker 2: Sacramento Republic FC after scoring a whopping sixty one goals

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Speaker 2: in his last two seasons. The club said they were

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Speaker 2: excited to support Davian's professional dream. We are all big

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Speaker 2: Jack River fans in the office, but we are also

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Speaker 2: interested in following when Australian music intersects with the news,

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Speaker 2: and that's exactly what happened this week with the Senate

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Speaker 2: considering a bill that would remove limits of how much

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Speaker 2: Australian recording artists can be paid. We thought, who've better

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Speaker 2: to get on to explain this to us than one

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Speaker 2: of the artists pushing for this change, you know how

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Speaker 2: publicly as Jack River. Her name is Holly Ranken, and

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Speaker 2: today Holly joins us on the podcast. Holly, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the Daily Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to start at the beginning because

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Speaker 2: I think it's very rare for the Daily Ods to

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Speaker 2: get a pop star onto its pubcas. But for anyone

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Speaker 2: listening that sort of isn't in the music industry, doesn't

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Speaker 2: follow how it all works. When you, as a recording

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Speaker 2: artist have your music played on the radio, how are

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Speaker 2: you actually compensated for that?

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Speaker 4: So we receive a royalty that gets paid to our

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Speaker 4: collecting bodies Radio pay an agreed lump sum of money

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Speaker 4: to the rights holders and then they distribute that to us.

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Speaker 4: So that's kind of a very basic way of thinking

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Speaker 4: about it. So it can be a large amount of

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Speaker 4: money or a small amount of money. I think we'll

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Speaker 4: get into it in a moment. A fair bit of

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Speaker 4: complication in the weeds there, but basically the money flows

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Speaker 4: through to us through collection bodies and our labels.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I don't want to go into the weeds

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Speaker 2: too much. But you were standing next to Senator David

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Speaker 2: Pokark earlier this week in camera while he was introducing

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Speaker 2: new legislation. Can you take us through the legislation? And

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Speaker 2: I guess for you, as an artist, why it was

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Speaker 2: so important to see something like this in parliament.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely so, might rewind one moment to look at a

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Speaker 4: bit more of the breakdown of those royalties.

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Speaker 5: It's so hard to explain. Fml what's your favorite song

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Speaker 5: in the moment.

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Speaker 2: Zara Endless Summer by Jack River.

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Speaker 4: Okay, if your favorite song is Endless Summer by Jack River.

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Speaker 4: Within that song, there's two major areas of rights. We

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Speaker 4: have the songwriting, which is myself and Matt Mason from

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Speaker 4: DNA's we wrote the song together, so we own the

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Speaker 4: lyrics and the melodies. And then on the other side,

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Speaker 4: the other fifty percent of this song is the recording,

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Speaker 4: so the actual sound that was recorded to create the song,

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Speaker 4: and those two sides of the song are handled by

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Speaker 4: different different electing bodies. So bust forward to David Pocock's

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Speaker 4: bill and he's talking about sound recording rights. So his

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Speaker 4: bill is called fair Pay for Radio Play.

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Speaker 2: It's got a nice sound to it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got a real ring. So within the Copyright Act,

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Speaker 4: which is, you know, the Act in our federal legislature,

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Speaker 4: how do we say, our federal piece of legislation that

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Speaker 4: looks after the rights around any work that's created, any

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Speaker 4: intellectual property that's created. There's this funny little thing in

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Speaker 4: there leftover from nineteen sixty eight when the Copyright Act

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Speaker 4: was formed, when the price of bread was twenty cents.

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Speaker 5: I learned yesterday, and it's a cap. It basically says

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Speaker 5: that radio radio networks will never pay more than one

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Speaker 5: percent of their gross annual earnings for sound recordings in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Why why it's.

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Speaker 4: Kind of like this piece of call it legacy legislation

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Speaker 4: in Canberra so like old school stuff that's left in

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Speaker 4: acts that absolutely doesn't apply to today, but just hasn't

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Speaker 4: been cleaned up yet. And that that little quirk in

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Speaker 4: the Copyright Act that's pertinent to us at the moment,

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Speaker 4: seemed to be there as something to get radio networks

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Speaker 4: used to paying us as songwriters and sound recordings. And

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Speaker 4: it was meant to kind of go away after twelve months,

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Speaker 4: like a kind of sunset clause in a contract, but

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Speaker 4: it's stayed there for fifty five.

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Speaker 5: Years and now it needs to move on. So to

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Speaker 5: sound recording.

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Speaker 4: Some radio around the world, the trend is between three

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Speaker 4: to four percent of gross annual earnings from a radio network,

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Speaker 4: if that makes sense. So we are actually sitting at

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Speaker 4: zero point four percent. Radio networks pay point four percent

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Speaker 4: of their gross annual earnings to write holders of songs.

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Speaker 4: And we're not asking to like change the percentage and

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Speaker 4: change the payment right now. We're just asking for this

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Speaker 4: earnings cap to be taken out of the Copyright app

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Speaker 4: so we can just simply negotiate our.

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Speaker 5: Value of those works. Does that make sense. There's a

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Speaker 5: bit on.

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Speaker 2: There that it does make sense. And I have a

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Speaker 2: question that I want to ask, but I just want

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Speaker 2: to finish on this topic first. So why a has

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Speaker 2: this not happened before?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: I mean a sunset clause that was meant to be

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Speaker 2: up after twelve months versus fifty five years is fairly different.

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Speaker 2: And be like, do you expect this legislation to pass

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Speaker 2: now that it is in front of Parliament?

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Speaker 4: So five different reviews over that fifty five years have

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Speaker 4: said every review that has looked at this has said

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Speaker 4: to remove it. I think it hasn't been removed because

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Speaker 4: radio networks, like traditional media corporations, have very deep ties

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Speaker 4: to Canberra. They are very their legacy companies, you know,

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Speaker 4: and they do things in an old school way and

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Speaker 4: they want to hang on to these pieces of legislation

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Speaker 4: that really serve them. So we absolutely love and rely

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Speaker 4: on radio and you know, want to be besties all

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Speaker 4: the time. But sometimes you've got to ask money from

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Speaker 4: your best.

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Speaker 5: After some money, you know, to pay for your life.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that's where it sits whether it will pass

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Speaker 4: or not. So David Pocock is an independent senator and

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Speaker 4: so therefore he can introduce private senator's bills only and

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Speaker 4: generally they don't pass because David doesn't have you know,

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Speaker 4: a party behind him to back in that legislation. It

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Speaker 4: is quite rare for that kind of bill to pass.

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Speaker 4: But regardless, it's put the issue to the kind of

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Speaker 4: front of the queue when it comes to issues between

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Speaker 4: music copyright and communications portfolios.

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Speaker 5: But it hasn't come into fruition yet.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we want to get things moving and

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Speaker 4: we want to start these conversations, and we're you know,

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Speaker 4: very ecstatic that because David's an independent he can get it,

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Speaker 4: get this tabled and get people talking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it certainly puts it on the agenda,

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Speaker 2: and I think for a long time in this country

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Speaker 2: we haven't necessarily heard from artists themselves about the way

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Speaker 2: that their work is valued. And so I guess I

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Speaker 2: want to take it a bit broader and ask for you,

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Speaker 2: as an artist, what would you want to see in

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Speaker 2: the future. I mean, this legislation we're talking about is

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Speaker 2: quite niche. There's obviously a lot more that can be done.

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Speaker 2: What are you hopeful for?

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Speaker 4: So I'm an Australian recording artist, as you just recognized,

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Speaker 4: and this country has had, you know, a pretty long

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Speaker 4: history of not valuing us and our role in society

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Speaker 4: as much as other countries like Canada and France, and

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Speaker 4: these Grade A students over there who prioritize local content

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Speaker 4: ahead of international content, or at least they assign quotas

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Speaker 4: to local content on radio, streaming, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: We are in a time where.

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Speaker 4: Global forces, global streaming, you know, AI, like social media, TikTok,

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Speaker 4: you know, you name it. These forces are coming and

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Speaker 4: completely disrupting how we all consume music. Right it's becoming

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Speaker 4: really global and instant. And so it's up to local governments,

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Speaker 4: up to our government to protect protect Australian artists against that,

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Speaker 4: but also prioritize us and give us, give us like

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Speaker 4: a first step at least in our own country so

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Speaker 4: that we know at least Australians can can hear us,

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Speaker 4: and then we go out to the world. So coming

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Speaker 4: back to how that looks in policy, is local content quote,

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Speaker 4: That's something that as an artist, I'm pretty excited to

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Speaker 4: talk about, and I think.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean exactly?

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Speaker 5: So it means, well, it's different on radio.

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Speaker 4: It means that there would be regulation created around like

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Speaker 4: a percentage of local music that should be played or

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Speaker 4: must be played on radio stations. So on radio right now,

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Speaker 4: less than one percent of music played is new Australian

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Speaker 4: music for music released in the last year, so that

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Speaker 4: kind of sucks. And then when you look at Australian

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Speaker 4: music in general, you can see a trend of like

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Speaker 4: kind of between five and twelve percent is Australian music.

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Speaker 4: So we have very chill regulations and it's also all

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Speaker 4: self regulated by radio stations. When it comes to streaming,

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Speaker 4: all countries around the world are figuring out how to

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Speaker 4: deal with this because Spotify and other streaming platforms you know,

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Speaker 4: control the algorithm basically, and there's a lot of discussion

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Speaker 4: around how to prioritize local content through things like you know,

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Speaker 4: local content algorithms that skew for a little while down

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Speaker 4: a local content journey and then let you often to

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Speaker 4: the big sea of international content. Same on TikTok. So

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Speaker 4: how can we make sure we're prioritizing local artists on

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Speaker 4: these huge platforms that are just you know, churning out

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Speaker 4: music from major players US and UK. And that's a conversation.

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Speaker 4: We really haven't had it as a nation in a

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Speaker 4: very very long time, and music's the music industry is

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Speaker 4: set to i think triple over the next ten years.

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Speaker 4: It's a booming time, but we have to protect our artists.

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Speaker 2: It makes me think about when you started a movement

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Speaker 2: to have more Ouzzy music playing in broadcasts of it

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Speaker 2: was at the Olympics. It was I remember seeing that

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Speaker 2: and thinking that is something that I, as a consumer,

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Speaker 2: had never thought about. You know, I was watching the Olympics,

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Speaker 2: I was listening to whatever I was listening to in

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Speaker 2: the broadcast, and when you identified the need to have

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Speaker 2: Ossie artists playing, I was like, yes, so good. Has

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Speaker 2: that kind of taken any shape? Are you seeing any

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Speaker 2: movement towards you know, they're wanting to be a prioritization

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Speaker 2: of Ossie artists in these sorts of circumstances. I mean,

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Speaker 2: watching the Matildas. It's great to hear Aussie artists being

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Speaker 2: played when you're at the game, but what's it like

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Speaker 2: from your end?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So that movement was called our Soundtrack, Our Stories and

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Speaker 4: Happening because I was watching the Olympics and in these

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Speaker 4: incredible Australian moments where Australian athletes were winning gold, whatever, silver, bronze,

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Speaker 4: whatever you do in sport, just your pation awards, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: participation awards, incuragion Awards.

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Speaker 5: We were hearing you know, these hits from like Kanye

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Speaker 5: West and Beyonce and stuff, songs that come from overseas,

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Speaker 5: and I like took that thought.

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Speaker 4: And went to Woolies that night and was hearing the

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Speaker 4: same and I was like, we were in a pandemic

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Speaker 4: where our industry was at rock bottom.

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Speaker 5: Most of our businesses were down like eighty percent.

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Speaker 4: Meanwhile, you know, Channel seven were playing overseas artists in

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Speaker 4: these incredible Australian moments. So I made that post and

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Speaker 4: within you know, two weeks, we had Channel seven come

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Speaker 4: forward and say, oh my god, of course we'll change

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Speaker 4: the music. We weren't thinking about that. Channel nine and

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Speaker 4: Channel ten also jumped on board and completely changed their playlisting.

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Speaker 4: And then we had multiple companies come out and come

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Speaker 4: out in support of the movement, like Bank Australia and

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Speaker 4: Woolworths and Smirnoff and I can't remember, there's a huge

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Speaker 4: list of companies that came out, and.

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Speaker 5: I think it was just like, you know, artists.

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Speaker 4: Don't don't want to rock the boat because we're trying

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Speaker 4: to keep things fun and chill and just release music

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Speaker 4: and have a good time and make other people have

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Speaker 4: a good time. We don't step out often and say hey,

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Speaker 4: like this needs to change, or are you guys.

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Speaker 5: You know, considering this.

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Speaker 4: So when we did, yeah, the country responded so positively

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Speaker 4: and there's been great things happen since then. And as

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Speaker 4: opposed to like the political regulation side that we were

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Speaker 4: talking about before, this is more like, let's do it

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Speaker 4: because it's good and we have good music and really

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Speaker 4: cool stories that really resonate with local people and communities

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Speaker 4: and tell the story of the country we live in.

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Speaker 4: So that a cool thing happened. Recently, ARIA announced Best

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Speaker 4: Use of Australian Music in an Advertisement, So there's going

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Speaker 4: to be a new ARIA Award for Best Use of

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Speaker 4: Local Music in an Ad, which encourages the ad industry

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Speaker 4: to play more Australian music. I'll use more music and

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Speaker 4: like every day I hear about a new awesome ad

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Speaker 4: campaign that is kind of taking pride in the song

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Speaker 4: that they're choosing and that can have an enormous effect

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Speaker 4: on an artist's life.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a brilliant note to end on, which

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Speaker 2: is one of optimism and hope and that there are

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Speaker 2: ways to be platforming Australian artists. So Holly, Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for your time today.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us today on the daily Ours really

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Speaker 3: appreciate you tuning in this week. We're going to be

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Speaker 3: back again with five more Banger episodes next week. Have

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Speaker 3: a wonderful weekend, go Matilda's and we'll speak to you

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Speaker 3: on Monday.