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Speaker 1: Well, pressure is mounting on the Chief Minister at Tasha

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Speaker 1: Files to reveal the future of the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: Commissioner Jamie Chalker, after she yesterday refused to say if

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Speaker 1: she has confidence in the commissioner. On the weekend, Sky

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Speaker 1: News revealed the government had asked mister Chalker to resign,

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Speaker 1: losing confidence in his ability to continue in the role. Now,

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Speaker 1: mister Chalker has taken indefinite leave. And as I mentioned

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Speaker 1: a moment ago, the Chief Minister yesterday addressing the media

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Speaker 1: and also again this morning in a local radio interview,

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Speaker 1: and Will has not confirmed or she has confirmed that

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Speaker 1: he's on leave, but refused to say if she'd asked

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Speaker 1: him to resign or if she still has confidence in

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Speaker 1: the police commissioner. Now she said, I've indicated to you

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Speaker 1: that mister Chalker is on leave.

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Speaker 2: That's all I'll be saying now.

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Speaker 1: She was asked numerous times if she had confidence in

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Speaker 1: the police commissioner and did not answer the question, which

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Speaker 1: really speaks volume. If she did, she would have said

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Speaker 1: she had confidence in him. Now joining me on the

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Speaker 1: show is the Opposition leader Leafanoki are, Oh, good morning

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 3: Leaving Katie and to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now the Chief Minister is refusing to say if she

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Speaker 1: does have confidence in the Northern Territory Police Commissioner. It's

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Speaker 1: understood that a cabinet meeting took place on Friday the

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner was told that the government's lost confidence in him.

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Speaker 1: He's now on leave and no one is prepared to

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Speaker 1: say anything. What do you make of this situation.

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Speaker 4: It's really quite extraordinary, Katie, and I think it's a

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Speaker 4: new loaf Natasha Files and her government. Ultimately, our police

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Speaker 4: are the backbone of our society. A strong police force

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Speaker 4: means a strong community, and it means we have law

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Speaker 4: and ornor and people can go and live their lives

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Speaker 4: in freedom.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: Our police force, make no mistake, has been in crisis

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Speaker 4: for a very long time. But ultimately for the Chief

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Speaker 4: Minister and the Police Minister to be burying their heads

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Speaker 4: in the sand and providing such high levels of uncertainty

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Speaker 4: and mischief essentially around the top police officer in the

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Speaker 4: Northern Territory is unfathomable. This is not a tenable position

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Speaker 4: for either of them. Our police need to know what

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Speaker 4: is going on at the top, and so do our community.

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Speaker 4: And it's really extraordinary that Natasha Files thinks again she

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Speaker 4: can deal with this and put politics above people and

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Speaker 4: deal with this in a way that she feels like

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Speaker 4: she's managing the media rather than managing at the government.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, that's the part that I'm sort of struggling

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Speaker 1: to get my head around at this point is on

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Speaker 1: the weekend we had extreme crime. You know, we had

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Speaker 1: a situation in Allie Springs where there was five cars,

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Speaker 1: more than five cars stolen on Friday night. On Sunday night,

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Speaker 1: there was further cars stolen here in Darwin on Sunday morning,

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Speaker 1: and also late in the hours of Saturday night there

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Speaker 1: was a car stolen from a family that was carjacked.

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Speaker 1: We also saw the vision out of moyl a mum

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Speaker 1: who who's filmed that vision from her balcony in moil

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Speaker 1: of people in the street with axes attacking each other.

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Speaker 2: It's woeful what's going on right now.

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Speaker 1: What we actually need is some really clear leadership. We

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Speaker 1: need to know who is running the show within the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Force and whether the Chief Minister has

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Speaker 1: confidence in the Police Commissioner or not. The fact that

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Speaker 1: she's not even able to answer that question to me

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Speaker 1: speaks volumes.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly right, and the Chief Minister is responsible

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Speaker 4: for hiring and firing of CEOs. That's how government works.

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Speaker 4: And ultimately, if Natasha Fars doesn't have confidence in the

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Speaker 4: police commissioner, she's got to come out and say that

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Speaker 4: and deal with that issue head on, because you cannot

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Speaker 4: have a situation where the police force is essentially being

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Speaker 4: undermined by the government, where you have a commissioner who

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Speaker 4: is holding a position who may or may not have

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Speaker 4: the confidence of rank and file and the cabinet.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is just an.

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Speaker 4: Extraordinary, possible, unprecedented situation, Katie, and it can't be left

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Speaker 4: to go on. We know that we have an eleven

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Speaker 4: percent attrition rate in our police force, we know that

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Speaker 4: morale is very low, we know that health and well

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Speaker 4: being is a serious issue, and yet the government are

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Speaker 4: pretending like nothing is going on here and that this

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Speaker 4: is just going to blow over.

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Speaker 3: Well it won't.

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Speaker 4: We have a police commissioner with a job to do

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Speaker 4: and now we have a situation where he may not

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Speaker 4: enjoy the confidence of the Chief Minister any longer.

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Speaker 3: She's got to come up and, you know, tackle this

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Speaker 3: issue head on.

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Speaker 4: She's got to say what is going on because this

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Speaker 4: is not sustainable.

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Speaker 1: Lea, as the Opposition leader of the Northern Territory, do

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Speaker 1: you have confidence in the police Commissioner.

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Speaker 4: So we've been really clear about our position on the

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Speaker 4: Police Commissioner for a long time. A couple of years now, Katie,

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Speaker 4: we've tried six times in Parliament to have an urgent

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Speaker 4: inquiry into the police crisis. We believe that's the best

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Speaker 4: way to deal with these issues. And the first thing

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Speaker 4: we would have done is call forward the Police Commissioner

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Speaker 4: to explain why he should keep his job. Now that's

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Speaker 4: a process I would undertake if I was the Chief Minister.

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Speaker 4: I'm clearly I'm you opposition leader and the government do

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Speaker 4: not want to have a police inquiry to trust.

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Speaker 1: That point though, now right like, we're past the point

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Speaker 1: of sort of saying all right, you know, should this

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Speaker 1: person keep their job or not, because by the sounds

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Speaker 1: of things, the government's actually said that they don't have

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Speaker 1: confidence in him. So what do you think needs to

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Speaker 1: happen here?

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Speaker 4: Well, the Chief Minister and Natasha Files and the Police

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Speaker 4: Minister need to front Territorians and explain what's going on

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Speaker 4: our police in our community. Deserve that certainty. You can't

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Speaker 4: have a police commissioner on indefinite leave. You can't have

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Speaker 4: an acting police commissioner for an indefinite period of time.

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Speaker 4: This needs to be dealt with immediately and decisively. And

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Speaker 4: instead what we have is Natasha Files trying to play

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Speaker 4: politics with this issue and hope that if she buries

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Speaker 4: her head in the sand long enough, it will go away.

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Speaker 3: But it won't. This is a crisis point of an

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Speaker 3: entirely new level. Katie, do you.

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Speaker 2: Think that commissioner can stay in the role.

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Speaker 4: I think past this point it seems impossible for the

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Speaker 4: government to be able to maintain this. I mean, there's

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Speaker 4: clearly an unsustainable position at both levels. You've got a

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Speaker 4: Police Minister who's saying nothing. You have a Chief Minister

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Speaker 4: who is saying nothing. You have a Police commissioner who

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Speaker 4: is saying nothing. I mean, who is running the Northern territory.

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Speaker 4: We have a crime crisis of proportions we've never seen before.

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Speaker 4: We literally have carnage and destruction on our streets every

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Speaker 4: single day, and now at the very highest levels of

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Speaker 4: our government we have everyone missing an action.

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Speaker 1: So who do you think is to blame for that?

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Speaker 1: For the crime levels that we are seeing across the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Do you think that that is the government's

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Speaker 1: policy settings. Do you think that it's an issue of

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Speaker 1: there being such low morale within the Northern Territory police force.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is happening here and how do

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Speaker 1: you think that the removal of the Police commissioner could

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Speaker 1: make a difference in that space.

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Speaker 4: Well, ultimately, Natasha Philes and her government are responsible for

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Speaker 4: the laws.

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Speaker 3: Our police are there to uphold the lord.

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Speaker 4: That's what they go out and do every single day

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Speaker 4: to keep us safe. Now Territorians know that the laws

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Speaker 4: are not adequate. They are not protecting people to keep

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Speaker 4: them safe, they're in fact protecting the criminals and the offenders.

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Speaker 4: So changing out a police commissioner, if that's what ends

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Speaker 4: up happening, is not going to solve our crime crisis,

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Speaker 4: because ultimately Natasha Files and Kate Warden still sit in

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Speaker 4: those top jobs. They still have shown through their actions

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Speaker 4: that they are not willing to tackle this issue of

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Speaker 4: law and order. They're not willing to support our police

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Speaker 4: and in doing what's required, and they're not willing to

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Speaker 4: make sure that offenders are behind bars and not out

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Speaker 4: there terrorizing our community on a daily basis, So nothing change.

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Speaker 1: People messaging through this morning saying, can you please ask

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Speaker 1: Lea if she has confidence in the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: Commissioner Katie? Doesleia have confidence in Chalker's leadership? There's like

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Speaker 1: a few different versions of the same question from different people.

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Speaker 4: Sure, and ultimately it's very difficult from opposition. I'm not

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Speaker 4: saying this as a cop out, but I'm not his boss.

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Speaker 4: Natasha files is, and so I don't have I'm not

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Speaker 4: privy to information she would have. What I know is

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Speaker 4: that things are not okay. I know that morale is

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Speaker 4: through the floor. I know that ninety seven percent of

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Speaker 4: our police don't feel like they're supported by their government.

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Speaker 4: And I know that health and wellbeing is a major issue,

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Speaker 4: which is why the best step I can take, the

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Speaker 4: most responsible action I can take, is to hold a

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Speaker 4: full inquiry into that police in crisis, which includes calling

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Speaker 4: not only the police commissioner but the entire executive of

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Speaker 4: the police force.

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Speaker 2: Does that just continue to drag things out here? Though?

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Speaker 1: Isn't it a situation where we've got a boil that

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Speaker 1: needs to be lanced And what you're suggesting is that

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Speaker 1: we put a band aid on it.

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Speaker 3: No, it would be a it could be a very

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Speaker 3: quick process.

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Speaker 4: Another month in this situation is not going to change

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Speaker 4: anything and ultimately would then give the community and me

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Speaker 4: the evidence we.

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Speaker 3: Need to do what needs to be done.

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Speaker 4: Ultimately, though, we have a situation where if the government

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Speaker 4: and the cabinet have formed some decision to ask the

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Speaker 4: police commissioner to leave, they need to either back their

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Speaker 4: decision in and come forward and front the community, or

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Speaker 4: they need to clear the air. But ultimately, this level

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Speaker 4: of uncertainty is just going to create massive problems for

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Speaker 4: our police force. Community safety is going to be at risk,

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Speaker 4: and ultimately, who is running our government? If Natasha Files

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Speaker 4: cannot even explain where our police commissioner is or who

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Speaker 4: is our police commissioner, then what hope do we have

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Speaker 4: of her dealing with any other issue in the territory?

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Speaker 2: All right, a few very quick questions.

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Speaker 1: Is the police commissioner's position right now tenable?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think this is a disaster.

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Speaker 4: I don't know where Natasha Philes, Kate Ward or Jamie

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Speaker 4: Chalker can go from this point. All three of them

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Speaker 4: are now compromised and under a shroud of secrecy and

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Speaker 4: it's an possible situation.

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Speaker 2: For any of them to come out of sounds like no.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, how can we move forward from this point?

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Speaker 4: There needs to be right from the tops and clearing

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Speaker 4: the air of what is going on.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the Chief Minister's position is tenable

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Speaker 1: at this point?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 4: We've just had two weeks of Parliament where she's ignored

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Speaker 4: the community on law and order and now we have

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Speaker 4: a situation where for days she is trying not to

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Speaker 4: answer a very simple question around whether or not the

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Speaker 4: Police Commissioner is still the police commissioner. I mean, if

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Speaker 4: she can't answer questions like that and deal with this issue,

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Speaker 4: she's not up for the job, and neither is Kate Warden,

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Speaker 4: the policemanister.

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Speaker 2: So are you calling on them to step down? What

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Speaker 2: are you calling on this morning?

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Speaker 4: We're calling on them to today clear the air, give

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Speaker 4: absolute clarity to our police and the community on exactly

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Speaker 4: what is going on and what the plan is going forward,

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Speaker 4: because if they have asked the Police Commissioner to step down,

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Speaker 4: then the police and the community deserve to know what

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Speaker 4: that plan, what the arrangement is in the in the interim.

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Speaker 1: Leah very quick question before I let you go this morning,

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Speaker 1: community courts. We know the Attorney General Chancey Pake on

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Speaker 1: Thursday last week push to reinstate community courts in the

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Speaker 1: territory after they were abolished back in twenty twelve. He

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Speaker 1: reckons the community court sentencing structure would be a separate,

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Speaker 1: standalone new court when he tabled that Sentencing Legislation Amendment

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Speaker 1: Bill for twenty twenty three. So he has said the

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Speaker 1: community court sentencing procedure will be open to Aboriginal offenders

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Speaker 1: by application to the court where they've pleaded guilty to

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Speaker 1: an offense in the local court or Youth Justice court

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Speaker 1: and have provided agreed facts to the court.

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Speaker 2: LEA.

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Speaker 1: Should those community courts be reinstated, would it mean that

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Speaker 1: we've got a situation where people are actually attending those

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Speaker 1: community courts on country rather than coming into the likes

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Speaker 1: of Darwin to go to court.

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Speaker 4: I think this is cute politics, Katie, because anyone who's

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Speaker 4: been around the system knows that our judges go out

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Speaker 4: to communities now and hold court in community. So this

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Speaker 4: is not an issue of moving people around. Is there

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Speaker 4: some merit in it? I would say yes, But the

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Speaker 4: devil is always in the detail. This sounds very light

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Speaker 4: on to me, and of course, for a government who

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Speaker 4: has a proven track record in putting the rights of

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Speaker 4: offenders above the rights of people to be safe, it

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Speaker 4: just sounds to me like another reason, another excuse for

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Speaker 4: Labor to be letting criminals not face consequences.

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Speaker 3: For their offending, and that's absolutely unaccepted.

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Speaker 1: Could the colp abolish those the community courts when you

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Speaker 1: guys were when you were in power.

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Speaker 4: Look, I'm not aware of that, Katie, and I haven't

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Speaker 4: heard the Labor government say it.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: If we had have done that, I'm sure it would

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Speaker 4: have been the first thing out of their mouth, Katie,

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Speaker 4: and I will tell I'm.

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Speaker 2: Really not sure.

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Speaker 1: I guess I was just more looking at the timing

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Speaker 1: of that twenty twelve when.

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Speaker 4: We just came into power in August that year, so

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Speaker 4: it would have been pretty quick work for us to

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Speaker 4: have scrapped that before the end of the year. It

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Speaker 4: possibly was scrapped by Labor either way, this government's been

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Speaker 4: in power for six long years and what we're seeing

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Speaker 4: is a lot of talk, no action, and ultimately, if

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Speaker 4: this is another way for offenders to have more of

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Speaker 4: a free ride, we're not interested.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting things I suppose at the moment, well,

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Speaker 1: it's not that interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's actually a terrible situation.

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Speaker 1: But one of the situations we've got at the moment

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, our jails are overflowing. We've got

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Speaker 1: offenders that are being housed in the watchhouses because we

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Speaker 1: don't have enough room for them. I guess what I'm

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Speaker 1: getting to is, are there different ways that we could

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Speaker 1: actually deal with this situation? So you know, you've got

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Speaker 1: boot camps, so you've got different kinds of models that

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Speaker 1: you're working with, so that offenders are being rehabilitated on

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Speaker 1: country if they're low risk.

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Speaker 4: Oh, there's lots of fantastic things you can do. Community

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Speaker 4: court I don't think is the answer to that. So

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Speaker 4: ultimately what we want to see is more low risk

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Speaker 4: prisoners in work camps. We know work camps mean that

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Speaker 4: prisoners are getting up, they're going to work, they're doing

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Speaker 4: the landscaping of towns. They're out there giving back to

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Speaker 4: their community. It's an important workforce. It then builds up

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Speaker 4: their skills and caper abilities of those individuals whilst they're incarcerated,

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Speaker 4: and hopefully connects them to a place of work. And

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Speaker 4: an opportunity for a job at the end of their

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Speaker 4: prison sentence.

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Speaker 3: That's vital and important.

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Speaker 4: We need to be seeing much more of that than

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Speaker 4: what labor are delivering.

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Speaker 1: Leah, quite a few messages here this morning, Matt in

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Speaker 1: driver Leah, simple yes or no? Would you retain Chalker

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Speaker 1: if you were elected the Chief Minister tomorrow?

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately, Matt, I can't say. I just don't have the information.

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Speaker 4: It would be reckless of me to do that from

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Speaker 4: my position. But what I've said is we would hold

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Speaker 4: a forensic inquiry and get the Police Commissioner to come

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Speaker 4: forward and explain very clearly why he should keep his job.

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Speaker 1: So based on the former police surveys, based on the

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Speaker 1: evidence that you have right now of police officers leaving

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Speaker 1: the force, based on the level of crime that you're seeing,

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Speaker 1: you still can't answer whether you do or don't think

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Speaker 1: that the Police Commissioner should stay in that role.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean the Chief Minister can't answer this, Katie,

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Speaker 4: it's ridiculous his boss. Ultimately, the crime is because Natasha

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Speaker 4: Files's laws are not strong enough. So that's why we

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Speaker 4: have crime. It's not because of any of our police.

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Speaker 4: It's because the laws are broken and Natasha Files doesn't

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Speaker 4: want to fix them. And ultimately all of the issues

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Speaker 4: around morale and a lot of the other problems in

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Speaker 4: our police force are undoubtedly being contributed to by the

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Speaker 4: Police Commissioner and the executive, which is why we'd have

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Speaker 4: an inquiry. Equally, they're being exacerbated because the laws are broken.

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Speaker 4: Our police are out there doing a job where they're

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Speaker 4: picking up offenders every day, they're getting bailed because the

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Speaker 4: laws are too weak and it is just a revolving

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Speaker 4: circus of criminality because this government puts the rights of

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Speaker 4: offenders above the rights of you out there to be safe.

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Speaker 1: Lea, we are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you as always for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thank you take everyone.

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Speaker 2: That's the Opposition leader, Leah Fanochi Aro