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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, they've found that adolescence experienced more frequent, high intensity

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Speaker 2: positive and negative emotion.

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Speaker 3: I could have told that that without doing a study.

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Speaker 2: This is really important. Don't knock it, don't say it's

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Speaker 2: from the University of duhh.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 2: This is the episode that everybody looks forward to more

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Speaker 2: than any other on the Happy Families Podcast. It's so

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Speaker 2: excited to be able to share it with you. What

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Speaker 2: are you sniffling laughing about? The most loved podcast episode

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Speaker 2: that we ever do, the benchmark. It's the moment in

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Speaker 2: the month that everybody looks forward to. I'm justin. I'm

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Speaker 2: here with Kylie, my wife, mum to our six kids.

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Speaker 2: And this is the doctor's desk episode. It's the episode

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Speaker 2: where we dive into the science. We recognize that people

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Speaker 2: are doing great research and that research can change our

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Speaker 2: lives for the better way.

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Speaker 3: You smirking at me, Well, I know where we're starting.

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Speaker 2: Where are we start?

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Speaker 3: Let's start with the mental loads mums Carrie.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to work through four recent studies, because

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Speaker 2: there's been so much good research that's come out recently

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Speaker 2: and we need to talk about it. This one was

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Speaker 2: done by Headspace. The survey in fact, there's some good

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Speaker 2: and some bad in this survey. So as Mother's Day approached,

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Speaker 2: Headspace National Youth Mental Health Foundation did a whole of

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Speaker 2: research with young people and they asked a couple of questions.

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Speaker 2: Here's the first question that they asked, who would you

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Speaker 2: seek support from if you're experiencing a personal or emotional problem?

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Speaker 2: And four and five eighty one percent of our twelve

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Speaker 2: to twenty five year old said, it's got to be mum.

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Speaker 2: It's just got to be a mom. Now, that's really

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Speaker 2: great news, right, because comparatively, seventy four percent would approach

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Speaker 2: their friends, seventy three percent would approach their boyfriend a girlfriend,

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Speaker 2: and only sixty percent will approach their fathers for support

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Speaker 2: in tough times.

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Speaker 3: Still a pretty good number.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Six percent That means forty percent are

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Speaker 2: not looking at dad as being emotionally supportive. Dad's the

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Speaker 2: one that says you'll be right, you'll be okay, don't

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Speaker 2: worry about it is going to be fine. And kids

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Speaker 2: are actually recognizing that they're saying, your dad doesn't get

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Speaker 2: it when it's hard. Dad doesn't know how to deal

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Speaker 2: with this. That I think is kind of concerning. But

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Speaker 2: there's a flip side of that, and that is the mum. Therefore,

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Speaker 2: in eighty one percent of the cases, it's the one

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Speaker 2: that gets shouldered with the burden of their child struggles.

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Speaker 2: And so there's both good and bad news here. We

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Speaker 2: know that it's really hard to talk about mental health.

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Speaker 2: We know it's extremely important that kids have got someone

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Speaker 2: to talk to, and isn't it great that mum is there?

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Speaker 2: But as a mum to six every now and again,

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Speaker 2: do you kind of go I'm burned out, I'm over it.

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Speaker 2: Do I really need to carry your load as well

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Speaker 2: as mine?

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Speaker 3: I don't even need to answer that question.

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Speaker 2: So essentially, young people are turning to mum's more for support,

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Speaker 2: which is fantastic, but it does take a toll on

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Speaker 2: mum and that's what that research says. So as we

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Speaker 2: move through the next couple of doctor's desk conversations that

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Speaker 2: need to be had, are you going to let.

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Speaker 3: Me say something wing to take over the whole podcast?

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Speaker 2: Okay, what do you want to say about it.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: What I love about this, in spite of the fact

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Speaker 3: that it is a heavy load is number one, the

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Speaker 3: kids are coming to you, Yes, But secondly, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean that I have to carry the whole load.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, great, great. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So when the kids come to me, it's a wonderful

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Speaker 3: opportunity for you and I to connect and talk about

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Speaker 3: how we might best support her, because while she's coming

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Speaker 3: to me, it's because at this point in our lives,

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Speaker 3: I'm more available. It might not necessarily be that they

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Speaker 3: don't go to dad. It might just be because of

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Speaker 3: circumstances he's not as available. Yeah, but it doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: she doesn't or they don't want Dad included.

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Speaker 2: So let's be really clear. When we look at it

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Speaker 2: from this perspective, we are doing so with an expectation

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Speaker 2: that families are functioning reasonably well, the relationships are safe,

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Speaker 2: and that kids are able to have that quality connection,

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Speaker 2: that sense of mattering and belonging and knowing that they

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Speaker 2: are unconditionally accepted for who they are. With all of

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Speaker 2: those things said, overall, I think it's great that kids

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Speaker 2: know that they can turn to their parents and there's

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Speaker 2: a little bit of good news in that research.

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Speaker 3: What's number two?

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Speaker 2: Oh you tell me you decided that was going to

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Speaker 2: be number one.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think let's talk about emotionality in adolescence.

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Speaker 2: All right? No from so since nineteen zero four, nineteen

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Speaker 2: oh four, one hundred and twenty years ago, when G.

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Speaker 2: Stanley Hall wrote the classic book Adolescence, it was as

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Speaker 2: the first time anyone who had really talked about adolescents,

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Speaker 2: and Hall is saying, hang on, there is definitely something

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Speaker 2: going on here. I mean, we've known for centuries that

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Speaker 2: kids in their team years are a little bit different

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Speaker 2: to everybody else, and he started to put a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff together. Well, we now know that there

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Speaker 2: are dramatic social and biological changes that occur during adolescents,

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Speaker 2: and understanding their emotional development through this period is just

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Speaker 2: so critical.

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Speaker 3: So are you telling me that this is new news?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah it is. So what's basically happened is Natasha Palen,

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Speaker 2: Lauren Green, Renee Thompson three researchers have written this really

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Speaker 2: important article called Understanding Emotion in Adolescence, A Review of

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Speaker 2: Emotional frequency, intensity, instability, and clarity. So what they're really

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Speaker 2: doing is they're saying, let's take a close look at

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Speaker 2: what's really happening. What's normative development, what's non normative development?

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Speaker 2: How does gender interact with emotionality, how does puberty interact

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Speaker 2: with emotionality? What do we really truly need to know?

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Speaker 2: And this is what they've found as they're reviewed all

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Speaker 2: of the research and look at what's going on, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: they've found that adolescence experience more frequent, high intensity positive

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Speaker 2: and negative emotion.

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Speaker 3: I could have told that that without doing a study.

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Speaker 2: This is really important. Don't knock it, don't say it's

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Speaker 2: from the University of Duh, because when we've got the

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Speaker 2: empirical evidence, then we can start to work out the

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Speaker 2: best ways to interact with our kids. So let me

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Speaker 2: just highlight a couple of things. More frequent emotions at

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Speaker 2: both the high end and the low end of the

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Speaker 2: emotional spectrum. That that is the positive and negative emotional spectrum.

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Speaker 2: So they experienced joy. Have you noticed teenagers experience joy

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Speaker 2: in ways that.

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Speaker 3: It's intense?

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Speaker 2: We don't as adults. I mean, we have teenagers who

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Speaker 2: say this is the saddest thing I've ever seen, but

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Speaker 2: they say it every third or fourth day, or this

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Speaker 2: is the most incredible thing I've ever done. Is I've

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Speaker 2: ever eat it? There's never been a dinner like this before.

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Speaker 2: But then four days later they're like, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: the best dinner ever. Like every now and again, I'll

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Speaker 2: look at you and say, this is an incredible steak.

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Speaker 2: This is a top five steak moment. But it's got

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Speaker 2: to be pretty unusual for that to happen. But for teenagers,

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Speaker 2: it's almost like they're experiencing the highs and lows of

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Speaker 2: life at a greater intensity. Then well then you've got

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Speaker 2: the child and.

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Speaker 3: With experiences the high and the low all in Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's she's laughing as Dereca.

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Speaker 2: Watch he's so big, I'm happy, sad. Yeah, but not

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Speaker 2: only do we have more frequent high intensity in emotions,

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Speaker 2: but there is generally greater emotional intensity and greater instability overall.

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Speaker 2: So g Stanley Hall in nine and O four with

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Speaker 2: this theory of adolescence, generated this idea that adolescence is

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Speaker 2: a period of storm and stress. And that's really what

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Speaker 2: these researchers are saying. We've got one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 2: years of research now that shows that this what's going on,

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Speaker 2: and it's also consistent with what we are learning neuro developmentally.

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Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating to look at this so well.

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Speaker 3: I love that they've just described in my home into

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Speaker 3: three teenagers, stress and storm.

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Speaker 2: Adolescents primarily respond to emotional cues with increased activity of

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Speaker 2: subcortical circuitry. In other words, the emotional part of their brain.

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Speaker 2: Don't roll your eyes. The emotional part of their brain

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Speaker 2: is fired up and it gets really really activated. That's

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Speaker 2: all it's saying. With regard to gender, Kylie, this may

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Speaker 2: oh sorry, just before we get to gender, I also

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Speaker 2: have to highlight this. The researchers found frequent or intense

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Speaker 2: emotions in a peer context communicate important information about the

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Speaker 2: desirability of friendships and potential romantic partners. So there is

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Speaker 2: a there is an important social context to this high

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Speaker 2: emotionality that we don't really show as adults. Now let

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Speaker 2: me get into the gender stuff. Findings from the review

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Speaker 2: suggest the girls. Well, let me ask you. Am I

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Speaker 2: going to say girls have higher or lower intensity and

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Speaker 2: instability of emotions?

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Speaker 3: Do you know that when most people find out that

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Speaker 3: you have six daughters, they literally look at you and

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Speaker 3: say poor you.

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Speaker 2: If they do, which I don't understand because I love

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Speaker 2: being a dad to six daughters. But you're laughing. So

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Speaker 2: is it higher or lower? Just let's just it's higher.

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Speaker 2: It's higher. Okay, I'm going to read this word perc.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what?

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Speaker 3: Stereotypically, the girls are more expressive and as hard as

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Speaker 3: that is, I would rather that have that than the grunt.

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Speaker 2: You know what, Every now and again, I'd take a

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Speaker 2: grunt or two. This is what they say. Girls have

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Speaker 2: higher intensities and instability of emotions, and this is critically important.

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Speaker 2: Not only are they experiencing these emotions morely, but they

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Speaker 2: have a poorer understanding of their emotions than boys do.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe they're calling us some unstable, just some

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Speaker 3: greater instability than boys.

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Speaker 2: They didn't say they're unstable.

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Speaker 3: That's what they're trying to say.

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Speaker 2: They also say this. There is also preliminary evidence that

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Speaker 2: girls have higher frequencies of positive and negative emotions than

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Speaker 2: do boys.

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Speaker 3: Have you heard of the monthly cycle?

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Speaker 2: Well there's that as well. But I just think about

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Speaker 2: I mean, I look at one of our kids who

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Speaker 2: literally she'll go from laughing to crying, if not in

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Speaker 2: the same breath, within two or three breaths, and they're

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Speaker 2: both as intense as the other, like the intensity is

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Speaker 2: just so up there. We know that we've got well

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Speaker 2: documented row anatomical differences between boys and girls that can

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Speaker 2: influence their emotional experience. Different amignalo size, different functionality there.

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Speaker 2: But the research is there last point they want to make.

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Speaker 2: I've spent a lot of time on this, but it's

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Speaker 2: just fascinating for anyone who has adolescence. Given how puberty

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Speaker 2: affects neurobiology during adolescence, there's a real lack of studies

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Speaker 2: that show a relationship between puberty and emotionality, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's fascinating. Maybe maybe that there's just more research

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Speaker 2: to be done there, but I guess overall, given the

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Speaker 2: number of changes that adolescents are going through in pretty

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Speaker 2: much every domain of their lives, it's not really a

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Speaker 2: surprise that adolescence is a time of high emotionality. I

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Speaker 2: want to emphasize this though. The research has found that

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Speaker 2: it's typical that not only are teenagers having more intense

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Speaker 2: emotions than adults, and that those emotions are becoming increasingly

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Speaker 2: unstable throughout adolescence, but increased intensity and instability of negative

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Speaker 2: emotion has been linked to various forms of adolescent psychopathology

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Speaker 2: like anxiety and depression. And so while this is typical,

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Speaker 2: we also want to make sure that as parents, and

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Speaker 2: this is the critical reason that I wanted to share this.

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Speaker 2: As parents, we need to be aware of our teenager's

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Speaker 2: emotional frequency, intensity, instability, and clarity and provide them with

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Speaker 2: the support that they need so that it doesn't develop

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Speaker 2: into psychopathology. So it doesn't develop into anxiety, because it's

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Speaker 2: normal that they're going to have these experiences. It's healthy

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Speaker 2: as a general rule, so long as it can be

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Speaker 2: well processed, and so much if it comes back to us.

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Speaker 3: Well, number three is a sure fire method to help

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Speaker 3: kids be pro social.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's do this one really quickly. It's really simple.

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Speaker 2: I love this one. There's a guy who's been making

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Speaker 2: a lot of noise lately with the brand new book.

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Speaker 2: His name is Dasher Helped Dasher Keltner is the name

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Speaker 2: of the guy. And I'm not sharing this study because

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Speaker 2: in the book, I haven't read the book, but the

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Speaker 2: book is called or awe Or by Dasha Keltner. In

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Speaker 2: the book, the subtitle is the New Science of Everyday

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Speaker 2: Wonder and how it can transform your life, And so

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Speaker 2: in this study with Eddie Brummleman and a couple of

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Speaker 2: other colleagues as well. What they've basically said is this,

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Speaker 2: we studied the effects of art elicited or on children's

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Speaker 2: pro social behavior. In other words, when you look at

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Speaker 2: a piece of art that is or inspiring, what does

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Speaker 2: it do to you in terms of the way you

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Speaker 2: behave towards others those who are specifically not of your

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Speaker 2: in group. They're not part of the people you know

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Speaker 2: and recognizing get along with. So they've got one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty nine kids and then three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: three kids between eight and thirteen, and they had them

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Speaker 2: watch movie clips that either elicited or or joy or

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Speaker 2: just a neutral feeling, and the kids who watch the

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Speaker 2: are inspiring the or eliciting clip were more likely to

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Speaker 2: in Study one, spend time on a task that was

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Speaker 2: difficult and effortful, and then donate their earnings from being

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Speaker 2: in the study both Study one and Study two towards

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Speaker 2: helping refugees. They also showed increased respiratory sinness a rhythmal,

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Speaker 2: which is an index of the parasympathetic nervous system activating

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Speaker 2: that's associated with social engagement in other words, it's helping

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Speaker 2: them to be calm and nice and kind. They're being

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Speaker 2: pro social. That's the simple way of saying the fancy stuff.

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Speaker 2: What it was really saying is if your kids aren't

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Speaker 2: being kind and nice, get them into a situation where

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Speaker 2: they will experience something that is aw inspiring. This is

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Speaker 2: why I always say that nature is fuel for the soul.

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Speaker 2: We've found that when we step our children outside when

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Speaker 2: they're having a moment, when they're big on their emotionality,

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Speaker 2: when the intense and he's right up there being in nature,

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Speaker 2: staring at the sky, at the clouds, something bigger than them,

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Speaker 2: something that creates a sense of awe is calming, It

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Speaker 2: brings them back to earth and they become more pro social.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a fascinating study or Sparks pro Sociality

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Speaker 2: in Children, published in the journal Psychological Science in April

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, brand new research hot off the doctor's desk.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess that's why when I went to my

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Speaker 3: very first art class and they had the art teachers

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Speaker 3: work up on the wall for me to look at,

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Speaker 3: I was so or inspired yes by her efforts that

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Speaker 3: I write.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and it creates a sense of desire to create

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Speaker 2: and master and develop as well. Yeah, I love this, okay,

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Speaker 2: of course, all right.

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Speaker 3: Last one, mental health and exercise.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is a study that's just coming out of

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Speaker 2: the University of South Australia.

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Speaker 3: You're going to tell me something I don't know?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: Or are you just going to confirm something?

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm going to be ready.

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Speaker 3: Know.

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Speaker 2: This is just something that every parent needs to remember.

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Speaker 2: This is a great reminder. But you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's new data, it's new research. It's only just been published.

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Speaker 2: Joe Rogan was talking about it on his podcast the

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Speaker 2: other day. That's how big this is. This is a

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Speaker 2: big It's a big deal. Joe Rogan has probably the

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Speaker 2: most listened to podcast on the planet. I think he

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Speaker 2: signed like one hundred million dollar podcast deal. Can I

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Speaker 2: have one of those?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: Let's starve into this. Published in the British Journal of

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Speaker 2: Sports Medicine, the review is the most comprehensive to date

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Speaker 2: looking at exercise as an essential for managing depression. The

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Speaker 2: research has found that physical activity is one point five

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Speaker 2: times more effective than counseling all the leading medications. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is incredible. So what they've done They've reviewed a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of reviews. This is this is legitimate science.

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Speaker 2: They've looked at ninety seven different reviews, one and thirty

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Speaker 2: nine different trials, and one hundred and twenty one hundred

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Speaker 2: and nineteen participants. Wow. And what they found is that

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Speaker 2: physical activity is extremely beneficial if you want to improve

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Speaker 2: symptoms of depression, anxiety, and distress. They found that exercise

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Speaker 2: interventions that were twelve weeks or shorter were actually the

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Speaker 2: most effective at reducing mental health symptoms. So physical activity

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Speaker 2: makes changes, and it makes changes fast. Then it's just

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Speaker 2: up to you to maintain those changes. And here's the

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Speaker 2: critical thing. The largest benefits were seen among people with

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Speaker 2: depression or pregnant and postpartum women, as well as healthy

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Speaker 2: individuals and people diagnosed with HIV or kidney disease. I

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Speaker 2: think that this is just a fascinating piece of research.

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Speaker 2: The more that we do high intensity exercise, and they

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Speaker 2: did say any kind of exercise is good, it's useful,

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Speaker 2: and it will make a difference. But when you lift

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Speaker 2: the intensity, you get greater improvements for depression and anxiety.

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Speaker 2: If you do longer duration exercise, it has smaller effects

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Speaker 2: compared to shortened mid duration bursts. There's just that motivation.

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Speaker 2: It feels really good. And the last thing that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to mention is that they found that all types

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Speaker 2: of physical likectivity and exercise with beneficial including aerobic exercise

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Speaker 2: like walking or resistance training or pilates or yoga.

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Speaker 3: I'm on the right path, then you are.

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Speaker 2: You are. So that's the doctor's desk today for studies

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Speaker 2: that can help us to raise our kids and our

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Speaker 2: families better and to be better ourselves. Number One, your

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Speaker 2: kids want to talk to you, they really do, so

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Speaker 2: make sure that you're available for it. And Dad's let's

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Speaker 2: see if we can get that number up beyond sixty percent.

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Speaker 2: Number two, teenage years are an emotional time, so again,

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Speaker 2: be available for them and ride out the storm and

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Speaker 2: the stress. Study three or inspiring moments lead to better

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Speaker 2: outcomes with kids, and study for move in nature. It's

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Speaker 2: good for you, it's good for your kids. Kylie, what's

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Speaker 2: the standout for you when you think about how brilliant

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Speaker 2: today's doctor's desk has been?

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Speaker 3: Well, to me, it's all relational, uh huh. As we

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Speaker 3: build strong relationships with our kids, then they'll be willing

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Speaker 3: to come to us there'll be more social because we'll

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Speaker 3: have all inspiring opportunities together. We'll take those opportunities. We'll

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Speaker 3: move our bodies together. Yeah, and we'll recognize that the

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Speaker 3: emotional storms that we're going through are just part of

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Speaker 3: the territory.

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Speaker 2: You can see why this is such a popular podcast.

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Speaker 2: Amazing the Doctor's Desk. The Happy Famili's podcast is produced

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Speaker 2: by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our

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Speaker 2: executive producer. Hey, thanks for listening. Hope you're loving it.

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Speaker 2: We'd love to feedback podcast. It's at happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot au. Let us know if you're enjoying the

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Speaker 2: Doctor's Desk as much as Kylie or as much as me,

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Speaker 2: and we'll see you tomorrow. For I'll do better tomorrow

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Speaker 2: on the Happy Families Podcast