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Speaker 1: Earlier in the show, we spoke to the Attorney General

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Speaker 1: about the government's knife crime strategy, which does recommend a

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Speaker 1: number of short term actions, but no further reform at

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Speaker 1: this point. Chancey Paik says the government plans to work

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Speaker 1: with the retail and hospitality sectors to make it harder

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Speaker 1: for people to access knives and deliver de escalation training

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Speaker 1: to staff. Now joining me on the line to give

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Speaker 1: us their perspective is the mt director of the union

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Speaker 1: which represents those workers, and that is the Shop Distributive

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Speaker 1: and Allied Employees Association Shlock Sharma, Good morning to your Schlock.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: What's your reaction to the knife crime strategy that was

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Speaker 1: announced like yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie from the asset, I should say we certainly

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Speaker 2: agree that there needs to be a knife crime strategy

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Speaker 2: in place. Obviously, for too long, too many workers have

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Speaker 2: had to face knife crime in their workplace, and we

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Speaker 2: certainly congratulate the government on coming forward and implement the strategy. Look,

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Speaker 2: my immediate thoughts about Australogy were though, Look, I think

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Speaker 2: too much of the onus is being placed on retail

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Speaker 2: workers to prevent knife crime from happening in their stores.

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Speaker 2: I know the government is certainly taking a strong stance,

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Speaker 2: and you know they're looking to fund some de escalation

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Speaker 2: training in store. Look, from our point of view, I

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Speaker 2: don't think anything can prepare a young worker working their

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Speaker 2: first job from dealing with knife crime. You really need

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Speaker 2: ice in your veins to properly the escalate a situation

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Speaker 2: whereby you're being held up or knife is being brought

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Speaker 2: into your workplace. I'm not sure that the going down

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Speaker 2: the path of you know, further de escalation training will

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Speaker 2: necessarily see the outcomes the government wants to see. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time, we're certainly committed to working with

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Speaker 2: the government on any measure that you could see better

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Speaker 2: outcomes and workplaces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought exactly the same guy was a retail

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Speaker 1: worker from the age of fourteen right up through my

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Speaker 1: UNI days up until about twenty one. You know, I

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Speaker 1: have been inside, you know, inside those retail outlets, and

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell you, if someone walked in with

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Speaker 1: a knife, to put it really bluntly, I would have

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Speaker 1: absolutely packed myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, you're absolutely right, and I mean, look, I

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Speaker 2: thought the government to take analystic approach to this. But

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Speaker 2: one thing the strategy doesn't address is the impact on

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Speaker 2: that worker when they go through a trouble incident like that,

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Speaker 2: How does that impact them at work? You know, are

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Speaker 2: they able to work again? You know, is that person

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Speaker 2: loss to the territory workforce forever? So, look, I think

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Speaker 2: we do want to see their strategy, you know, take

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Speaker 2: and approach that supports workers. Also, I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: government's ignore I'm not suggesting that the government's ignoring them,

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Speaker 2: but that strategy doesn't really seem to address how we

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Speaker 2: better protect our workers and how we support them when

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Speaker 2: they go through something terrible.

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Speaker 1: Was there any consultation with you guys before this strategy

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Speaker 1: was announced yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Look, we weren't consulted. Look, I'm not saying that we

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Speaker 2: have to be. I'm certainly not going to come here

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Speaker 2: and talk about not being consulted, but I think it's

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Speaker 2: certainly it would have been helpful for the retail sector

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Speaker 2: to be consulted about this. We do know there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of operators out there that are being proactive

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Speaker 2: about better protecting their workers. There are some of our

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Speaker 2: major retailers are looking into how they how their workplaces

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Speaker 2: are designed to see if there the environmental layout of

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Speaker 2: their store is contributing to unsafe practices in their store, Schlock.

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Speaker 2: We hope the government will you take some advice of

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Speaker 2: industry and that they will get them all together to

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Speaker 2: get their advice on this. Yeah, look, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not going to crack it over not

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Speaker 2: being consultant over this.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask though, you know, obviously the

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Speaker 1: government's come out and they've spoken about the statistics that

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Speaker 1: they've sort of utilized to be able to make this

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Speaker 1: knife crime Strategy announcement. I want to ask you from

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Speaker 1: your perspective in terms of being the you know, the

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Speaker 1: NT director. Are our retail workers in situations very often

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Speaker 1: where somebody may pull a knife on them? Or is

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Speaker 1: it something that it feels like it's happening more often

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Speaker 1: because we in the media are reporting it.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think we need to understand that what happens

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Speaker 2: to Decklin Lavity only happened six months ago. There is

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Speaker 2: still a plamate of fear within our workplaces right now. Look,

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Speaker 2: obviously we haven't seen an incident as bad as that

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Speaker 2: one since, but look, there are a lot of workers

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Speaker 2: out there that are scared and are only going to

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Speaker 2: work right now just because they can't afford not to have.

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Speaker 1: I mean, have you had other people in retail settings

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Speaker 1: or in you know, in bottle shop settings, supermarket settings

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Speaker 1: where they have been threatened with knives or weapons?

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Speaker 2: Look short, Actually, yes we have. I think a day

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Speaker 2: doesn't go by without a retail worker being threaten in

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Speaker 2: their workplace. We know that the police have been fantastic

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Speaker 2: in their response to this, but yes, unfortunately retail workers

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Speaker 2: still continue to be threatened with weapons on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: So obviously the de escalation training is part of this,

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Speaker 1: and the government have said that there will be funding

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Speaker 1: associated with that de escalation training. I mean, does the

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Speaker 1: government realistically need to make sure that they are funding

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Speaker 1: that de escalation training for retail workers.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's only a very small part of

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Speaker 2: the problem. You know, workers and bottle shops already already

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Speaker 2: undertake the escalation training. They a lot of them get

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Speaker 2: you know, training quarterly on how to de escalate the situation.

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Speaker 2: Whether or not that's effective or not is I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: I don't have any evidence to suggest that it does

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Speaker 2: prevent violent instance from occurring. And look, I'm skeptical that

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Speaker 2: any additional training would necessarily see us getting different outcomes

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Speaker 2: to what we're already getting.

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Speaker 1: Seck, can I ask you one of the other parts

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Speaker 1: of this is, you know, there's the education side of things,

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Speaker 1: which I get that they're working through. But another part

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Speaker 1: of this is the possible restriction of access to knives.

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Speaker 1: The Attorney General sort of wouldn't rule in exactly whether

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Speaker 1: knives are going to be behind cabinets or not this morning,

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Speaker 1: but like, what's your take on this?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think this is why it's important for the

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Speaker 2: government to work with the major retailers to see, you know,

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Speaker 2: what's working and what isn't working in stores. I think

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Speaker 2: you know, workers and owners have a better appreciation of

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Speaker 2: what could or couldn't work rather than you know, I

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Speaker 2: think you know what the data necessarily could. So look

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Speaker 2: at the union will obviously support any measure that'll keep

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Speaker 2: our members safe and that'll keep workers more broadly say

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Speaker 2: from their workplace. But I'd say before making an arbitrary decision,

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Speaker 2: just actually get out there, you know, consult consulting industry

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Speaker 2: and you know, work with them to make the changes

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Speaker 2: that need to happen. And look, I think you know

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Speaker 2: in March the government did commit to you know, developing

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Speaker 2: a best practice guideline on the environmental designs of your

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Speaker 2: stores and other other workplaces where workers are vulnerable and

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Speaker 2: at harm's way. Today, you know, we haven't actually seen

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Speaker 2: the results of that, so we'd certainly encourage the government

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Speaker 2: to progress that work rapidly rather than going gun ho

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Speaker 2: and you know, arbitrarily making a decision without necessarily consulting

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Speaker 2: the people that need to be consulted.

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Speaker 1: Schlock, what had you hoped would come out of that

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Speaker 1: knife crime strategy?

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Speaker 2: Look, I will be up front with Tkadi. I don't

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Speaker 2: have a silver bullet to this. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: the solution to the issues that our members are facing,

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Speaker 2: but we just want to make sure that the government

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Speaker 2: has the backs of our members and that their safety

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Speaker 2: and their needs are at the forefront of any decision

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Speaker 2: that they make. Like, like I said, I'm not I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna I'm not going to criticize the government for

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Speaker 2: releasing a strategy, but I think they really really need

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Speaker 2: to have a think. They really need to review every

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Speaker 2: touch point of what's led us to why we're here,

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Speaker 2: and I think as a part of that they shouldn't

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Speaker 2: rule out legislative changes to that too. I think if

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Speaker 2: they want an evidence based approach, they should also review,

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Speaker 2: consists constantly review the legislation that they have, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not saying to make things, you know, make

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Speaker 2: to make the legislation stronger. You know, there may be

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Speaker 2: some elements of the legislation that I'm working as they should,

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Speaker 2: but I think leave options on the table and don't

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Speaker 2: rule anything out right now.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's I guess, you know, fund meantally, what

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Speaker 1: I sort of want to know is are our retail

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Speaker 1: workers feeling safe at work right now? And is this

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Speaker 1: strategy going to make them feel any safer?

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Speaker 2: Look, like I said, what happened to Taklin lab and

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Speaker 2: it only happened six months ago. The issue is still raw.

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Speaker 2: Our retail workers aren't They're not feeling completely safe at work. Look,

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Speaker 2: I really hope this strategy works, so I'll be the

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Speaker 2: first one to come out publicly to praise the government

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Speaker 2: if it does. We'll certainly be keeping an eye on it.

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Speaker 2: But as I said, the government should keep all options

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Speaker 2: on the table here. I don't think one strategy will

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Speaker 2: think is the problem. We know that it's a It's

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Speaker 2: going to take a lot of leaders being pressed to

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Speaker 2: make things better. But look, I think today it probably

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Speaker 2: won't feel make workers feel any safer. But as I've said,

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Speaker 2: I really really hope it works.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I'm just receiving word this inside Parliament right now

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Speaker 1: that one of the ministers had said that they'd talked

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Speaker 1: to the SDA and and also to Hospitality in relation

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Speaker 1: to these reforms and in relation to this strategy. But

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Speaker 1: by the sounds of it, it doesn't seem like much

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Speaker 1: consultations happened.

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Speaker 2: Look, we certainly haven't had any conversations with government about

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Speaker 2: the actual nice crime strategy. Look, the government has been

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Speaker 2: talking to us quite regularly over the last year, and

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Speaker 2: in particular since the since the incident occurred with Deklin,

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Speaker 2: But look, we certainly haven't been consulted on the micromet strategy.

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Speaker 1: No, Schlock, I really appreciate your time this morning. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I know that like you're wanting. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're obviously wanting, like I think everybody is right now,

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Speaker 1: we're all wanting this strategy to make a difference. We're

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Speaker 1: all wishing that some of the announcement that the government's

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Speaker 1: making will make a difference. But I guess we're all

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Speaker 1: just you know, we're all a bit broken after the

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Speaker 1: events that have unfolded unfortunately over the last year. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I always, like I feel for people working

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Speaker 1: in retail jobs were you're just there trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to make your wage, You're trying to earn some money,

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Speaker 1: and to be put in a dangerous situation is really

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Speaker 1: unfair and uncalled for.

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Speaker 2: Look, you're absolutely right, Katie, and like I've said, we

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Speaker 2: just want the government to have, you know, retail workers

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Speaker 2: and other workers expose locations at the forefront of their

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Speaker 2: mind when they propose any reforms. Yeah, I hope things

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Speaker 2: get better. And like I said, look, I'll be the

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Speaker 2: first one, you know, cheering on the government if things

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Speaker 2: do get better.

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Speaker 1: Schlockshama, I always appreciate your time, mate, Thanks very much

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Speaker 1: for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank Katie, Thank you,