1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: It's so hard to be in the moment when somebody 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: is speaking and what they're saying matters, But our mind 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: is a monkey and it's jumping all over the place 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: and making us think of a whole lot of things 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: that we want to do. We want to say how 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: we can help rather than just listen. Today we talk 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: about how to listen better. Hello and welcome to the 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast, Real parenting solutions every day. On Australia's 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson. 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: Kylie had to chat with a guy called Ross Yard. 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: He's written a book called Listening, and today we're going 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: to preview a much longer discussion that's going to be 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: played on Saturday about how to listen. How do you 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: rate your listening? 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 2: What did you say? 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: How do you know that was not even set up? 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: You were so quick, You did that so authentically, and 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: you were doodling while I was talking that I genuinely, 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: genuinely thought you were being serious. Got me for half 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: a second. I asked ross the question, how can we 21 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: listen better? And I loved his response. Check this out. 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 3: I would put that in three steps. First one is 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: don't try to do it all the time. Don't try 24 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: to listen better every single minute of every day. That's 25 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 3: just late. You know, that's just too hard. So look 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: for and recognize the moments. Look for those special moments 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: when you can tell there's a deeper issue. There's a 28 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 3: whole chapter dedicated to explaining what they are, and there's 29 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 3: lots of clues and hints that people give you, and 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 3: the most common one is either emotion or that they're 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 3: behaving in an unusual way. Second one is then when 32 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 3: you engage in that moment, just just engage, just be quiet, 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 3: shut up, let them talk, and just use neutral hemy more. 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 3: And then when they start talking, summarize. That would be 35 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: it for me. Three simple steps. Recognize this is a 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: moment when I can do something different and really connect Kylie. 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: So simple when you think about it, and yet so 38 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: hard to do. 39 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: I was about to say, there is actually no complexity 40 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: to this at all, and yet we all struggle with 41 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 2: it so much, so much the idea that we would 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: try to actively listen every minute of every day is exhausting. 43 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I like what he says, Yes you need 44 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: to listen. Yes, what your kids are saying matters, But 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: there are times where you really need to tune in. 46 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: And it's been actually keenly aware of when those times 47 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: are being able to read the room. Yeah. 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: Last week I did a webinar about really helping kids 49 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: to emotionally regulate, and as I describe what it is 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: to emotion coach a child, I could just hear the 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: collective groans of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of parents 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: around the country who were listening to this webinar, going, 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: I don't have time for that. But the reality is 54 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: you don't have to do it all the time. Time 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: being present and being discerning key moments, key moments. Yeah, 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: of course, the more you can be present for your kids, 57 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: the better, But life is busy. 58 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: Well, what I love is that once you recognize that moment, 59 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: the actual main thing to do here when we engage 60 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: is actually to do nothing. We're not not having to 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: fix a problem, we're not having to find solutions. What 62 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: we actually need to do is to be quiet, to 63 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: literally be quiet, to be in the moment, and to 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: hear what sometimes is not even being said. 65 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes when someone's talking, all we're doing is thinking about 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: what we're going to say next. Stephen Covey used to 67 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: talk about how when people talk and listen, they don't 68 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: really listen, they just talk and then prepare to talk. 69 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: And I remember Lisa to More saying, when it comes 70 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: to the way we communicate, quite often, it just feels 71 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: like we've got these little, you know, trinkets that you 72 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: buy on holidays and you put them up on the bookshelf. 73 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: She said, When people are talking quite often, it just 74 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: feels like we're taking a trinket off our bookshelf and 75 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: we're saying, hey, look at my trinket, and then we 76 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: put it back up in the other place. It says, well, 77 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: look at my trinket or trink it off their bookshelf. 78 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: And the idea is, what would it look like, what 79 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: it feel like if when somebody took a trinket off 80 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: their bookshelf and said, I want to show you this. 81 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: What if we said, can I can I become really 82 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: carefully and closely acquainted with this? Can I touch it? 83 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: Can I feel it? Can I experience it the way 84 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: you experienced it. I'm not worried about my bookshelf anymore. 85 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: I just want to understand what's what it is that 86 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: made you want to share this with me. 87 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The other night I was talking with a 88 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: friend who has never used Marco Polo before. 89 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: This is your favorite app? Oh my goodness. If you 90 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,239 Speaker 1: are not familiar with Marco Polo, Kylie gets on Marco 91 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: and you and your friends leave each other our long messages. 92 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: Well, so here's the thing. Yes we do, Yes we do. 93 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: It's not regular. Our way is not regular. 94 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: One way conversation. Somebody would just be driving and mark 95 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: owing you and they'll talk for an hour for their 96 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: entire drive from Brisbane of the Gold Coast and then 97 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: send it in you. Then you've got to listen for 98 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: an hour. It's this asynchronous monologue. 99 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,239 Speaker 2: So I was trying to explain to this friend who 100 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: has not used it before, and she couldn't understand it 101 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: at all. And a mutual friend that I communicate with 102 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: on Marco had shared it with her and was showing 103 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 2: her how to use it, and her daughter had actually said, 104 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: you know that Marco was just snapped for old people. 105 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 2: I love it, but what as we talked about it, 106 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 2: I kind of shared with her. I said, you know 107 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: how sometimes you're having experiences in your life and you 108 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: actually just need to talk it out. And I said 109 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: and when you share it with somebody, they're so busy 110 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: trying to fix the problem that you actually never get 111 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 2: the rhythm of being able to just pour. 112 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: It out because they don't take the ride. They take 113 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: the wheel. They start diverting the conversation into all the 114 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: different ways that they want to take it. 115 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: Yes, and they've got a solution for everything. It's like, no, no, 116 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: I don't need the solution right now. I need to 117 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 2: actually just sit in this pain and have a big 118 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 2: winge or have a big cry or whatever it is. 119 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: And so I actually see Marco often as just being 120 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: the therapy of just being able to talk it out. 121 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: And my friends and I both recognize that from time 122 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: to time we might just put it on speed too, 123 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: because it's not that they're wanting a response. We actually 124 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: just need to share it with somebody else. 125 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So back to Ross and what he had 126 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: to say. It ties in quite a lot here. He says, 127 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: just look the clues. If they need to communicate, they'll 128 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: give you the clue that they need to communicate, then engage, 129 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: and then summarize. 130 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: And I love this. I love this because what it 131 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: does is it allows the person who's sharing with us 132 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: to know that number one, they've been heard, but number two, 133 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: there's a real power in not giving them solutions because 134 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: in the absence of that solution, what we actually are 135 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: sharing with them is the belief that they will find 136 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: the answers. 137 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: The answers are inside them. I said this about our 138 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: kids all the time. After the break, we're going to 139 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: talk about why it's so hard to stay in that moment. 140 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: Okay. 141 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: Ross jud is the author of a book called Listening. 142 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: We'll linked to that in the show Notes. Had a 143 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: really delightful conversation with Ross talking about listening, especially in 144 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: a parenting context, and I asked him, why is it 145 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: so hard to be in that moment? 146 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I would say there's probably not many things 147 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 3: that are harder to do in our experience, like as humans, 148 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 3: that has to be one of the hardest things that 149 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 3: we could ever do. That ability to just keep your 150 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: mind out of the equation and focus on what they're 151 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,119 Speaker 3: saying is just incredible difficult. And the only way I've 152 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 3: personally found to do it is by this concept of summarizing. 153 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: So when I really need to listen to someone, it's 154 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: like a conscious thought process that almost hurts, you know, 155 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: I'm concentrating on what they're saying and repeating it back 156 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: in my head so I can repeat it back when 157 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 3: they're finished and summarize what they've said when they're finished. 158 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 3: It's the only way I've found to quiet and all 159 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 3: of I refer to them as monkeys as well. It's 160 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: like you've got monkeys chattering away in your brain. It's 161 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: the only way to quiet those voices. 162 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: Kylie, how do you stay present when there's so much 163 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: going on, you want to say so much. You listen 164 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: and then you summarize. 165 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: So this is the this is the big challenge. I 166 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: love how he acknowledges that there's pretty much not much 167 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: harder the thing for us to do than to be 168 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 2: present in these moments and to quiet the monkey mind. 169 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: I love the idea of the monkey mind because I 170 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: feel it so often going off in my brain. The 171 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: challenge we have is that when we hear someone talking 172 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: to us, we're actually listening through our own life experiences 173 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: and perspectives. We're actually it's going through that funnel of oh, yeah, 174 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: I've done that before, Yes, I know how that feels. 175 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: You know I've experienced that or whatever, and we're ready 176 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: to show them through our empathetic response of yeah, I've 177 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: done that, I've been there, I've felt that that we 178 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: hear them, but what we actually do is shut them down. 179 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: We stop them from being able to continue the flow 180 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: of their thought process and thinking. So, for me, what 181 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: I take away from everything this is actually a practice 182 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: in stillness. 183 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 3: Love that. 184 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: This is a practice in stillness, and that's why we 185 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: suck at it because as humans we still it's so 186 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 2: unnatural for us. 187 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: Yes, yep, yep. 188 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: The book is called Listening. Rossjudd is the author. We 189 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: have you enjoyed this very quick preview of what was 190 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: a It was a delightful common We're going to play 191 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: the whole interview on Saturday for your weekend. Listening while 192 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: you're doing the yard work, or going for a walk, 193 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: or just having a few moments, maybe strolling the aisles 194 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: of the supermarket and getting the growth. Don't know, do 195 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: you listen to a pod when you're shopping? I can't 196 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: do that. I've got to concentrate on one I'm picking 197 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: up off the shelves. 198 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: I might run over an old lady. 199 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: If that's not even funny, I don't know why I'm 200 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: laughing at that. 201 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: That's terrible. 202 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: A couple ive you said that. That's on Saturday. Thanks 203 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: so much for listening. We hope that you've got something 204 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: out of it and it helps you to listen better 205 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: with your kids. Like I said, a whole lot more 206 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: on Saturday with Ross and we'll link to his book 207 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: in the show notes. The Happy Family's Podcast is produced 208 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: by Justin Rulon from Bridge Media. If you would like 209 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: more information and more resources to make your family happier, 210 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: visit us at happy families dot com dot au and 211 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: tomorrow on the pod, a conversation you don't want to miss. 212 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: Your child will see pornography. We're going to tell you 213 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: what you need to know. That's The Happy Family's Podcast 214 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: tomorrow