WEBVTT - For Constance the Coroner Failed.

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast Unite Our Voices. This is Curtain, a podcast where

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<v Speaker 1>we expose the disappearances of Aboriginal people across this country.

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<v Speaker 1>Shining a light on the darkest parts of our justice system.

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<v Speaker 1>We ask who are the victims?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Amy mcquaire and I'm Martin Hodgson, Senior advocate at

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<v Speaker 2>the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning, this series

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<v Speaker 2>contains the names of deceased people and includes distressing content

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<v Speaker 2>that may upset some listeners. Welcome to Season two, Episode

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<v Speaker 2>nine of Curtain the podcast. This week, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>discuss the case we've spoken about previously, and that's the

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<v Speaker 2>case of Constance May wat Show, whose in quest we've

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<v Speaker 2>previously reported on. Two weeks ago in Brisbane, the coronial

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<v Speaker 2>in quest findings were finally handed down by the state

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<v Speaker 2>coroner and my co host Amy maguire was there that day. Amy,

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<v Speaker 2>I was just wondering if you can tell the audience

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<v Speaker 2>what it was like when you were there and what

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<v Speaker 2>the reaction was to the findings, which we will discuss shortly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this had been seven long years of waiting

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<v Speaker 1>for answers as to what had happened to Constance naywatch

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<v Speaker 1>her and just for our listener's knowledge. Constance had been

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<v Speaker 1>disappeared in November twenty seventeen, so November twenty seventeen was

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<v Speaker 1>the last time anyone had heard from her, the last

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<v Speaker 1>time there was any proof of life. And in the

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<v Speaker 1>months following November twenty seventeen, her family, who were from Sherburg,

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<v Speaker 1>had become increasingly worried and they'd actually gone down to

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<v Speaker 1>Brisbane in order to search for her. So two of

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<v Speaker 1>her brothers, part of her large extended family, had gone

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<v Speaker 1>down and inquiring about her whereabouts in Brisbane because that's

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<v Speaker 1>where they knew that she was staying. And they went

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<v Speaker 1>around to specifically the suburb of Kangaroo Point, West End

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<v Speaker 1>and Roma Street, which are all suburbs and inner city Brisbane,

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<v Speaker 1>and when they couldn't find her, they grew even more worried,

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<v Speaker 1>and they knew that this was deeply out of character

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<v Speaker 1>for Constance to disappear and not tell her family where

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<v Speaker 1>she was or not come back to Sherburg, so they

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<v Speaker 1>actually filed them as in person's report after that, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's no really follow up on the police end until

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<v Speaker 1>ten months later when her remains were found in really

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<v Speaker 1>horrific and brutal circumstances at the base of cliffs in

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<v Speaker 1>Kangaroo Point, which is for our listeners benefit, a very

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<v Speaker 1>affluent suburb in Brisbane now found by a cliff where

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very busy area where on Saturday's children learn

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<v Speaker 1>how to rock climb, meet us away and where passes

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<v Speaker 1>by passed by frequently, so it's quite a busy area.

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<v Speaker 1>And Constance was actually found two minutes from the unit

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<v Speaker 1>in which she'd been staying. Since then, there had been

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<v Speaker 1>no charges laid in relation to her murder. The police

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<v Speaker 1>had announced a reward of two hundred and fifty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars for any information to do with her murder, so

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<v Speaker 1>they'd very explicitly called it a murder. And yet five

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<v Speaker 1>years later the family were not at the steps of

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court, were actually in the Coroner's court for

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<v Speaker 1>a coronial inquest into her death and disappearance. And what

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<v Speaker 1>happened was the family had all come down again from

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<v Speaker 1>Sherberg on June sixth and they packed out the courtroom.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's quite a long journey for them to make.

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<v Speaker 1>Two and a half hours they've packed out the courtroom

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<v Speaker 1>and basically heard the Coroner's finding. Deputy State Coroner Stephanie

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<v Speaker 1>Gallagher deliver her finding within six minutes. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even know if you can call it a finding,

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<v Speaker 1>because the coroner didn't really deliver anything even close to justice.

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<v Speaker 1>She basically left it open and said that Constance's cause

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<v Speaker 1>of death would remain unknown, and even in relation to that,

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<v Speaker 1>she said that there was a possibility that Constance died

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<v Speaker 1>from some other unknown caused. She also said the identity

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<v Speaker 1>of the person's responsible for interfering with Constance's body was

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<v Speaker 1>also unknown based on the evidence she had heard, and

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<v Speaker 1>so it really felt like with an absence of evidence

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<v Speaker 1>came an absence of a perpetrator. So, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>think the family felt incredibly traumatized from hearing after seven

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<v Speaker 1>years that sort of finding delivered within six minutes, and

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<v Speaker 1>there were cries of no justice, no justice in the

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<v Speaker 1>public gallery, and then the family had moved shortly after

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<v Speaker 1>outside the courthouse where they gave a press conference. So

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<v Speaker 1>it was a severe feeling of let down. And yet

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<v Speaker 1>I think the families knew that there probably wasn't much

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<v Speaker 1>hope in this inquest process, which is quite the devastating

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<v Speaker 1>thing because they'd actually sat on it for a week

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<v Speaker 1>in September twenty twenty two, and even in sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>that in that process, there weren't a lot of answers

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<v Speaker 1>that came out.

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<v Speaker 2>So just to re establish the findings of the coroner

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<v Speaker 2>were that the precise circumstances of the death or unknow.

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<v Speaker 2>The place of death is listed as unknown, the cause

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<v Speaker 2>of death is listed as unknown, and the date of

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<v Speaker 2>death is listed as unknown. Between the twenty seventh of

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<v Speaker 2>November twenty seventeen, which is when Constance was last seen,

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<v Speaker 2>and tenth of September twenty eighteen, so nearly a year

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<v Speaker 2>later is the time of death and when it could

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<v Speaker 2>have taken place. But even despite the lack of a

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<v Speaker 2>proper police investigation, there is still plenty of evidence to

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<v Speaker 2>point to the people who were involved and gave the

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<v Speaker 2>coroner a lot to work with, which made this finding

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<v Speaker 2>even more ridiculous. So we're just going to go back

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<v Speaker 2>through some of those details and a warning to listeners

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<v Speaker 2>that there is confronting commentary in this process. As we've

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<v Speaker 2>previously explained, Constance's body was found in a bag that

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<v Speaker 2>was black and white, described as urban style, as Amy

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<v Speaker 2>said in Kangaroo Point, near a cliff. Now, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the key pieces of evidence was that the bag had

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<v Speaker 2>pink paint splattered on the top sides of it, and

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<v Speaker 2>there was a pink tube with a white lid on

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<v Speaker 2>it as well. The Queensland Police Service located an open

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<v Speaker 2>bottle of pink paint in the unit where Constance was

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<v Speaker 2>last seen at the apartment blocks in Kangaroo Point. That

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<v Speaker 2>paint was seized and tested and it matched the color

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<v Speaker 2>of pink paint that was located on the bag and

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<v Speaker 2>on items inside the bag. So to suggest that there

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't direct evidence that linked Constance to a certain location

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<v Speaker 2>prior to her death was of course absurd. There was

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<v Speaker 2>also curtains found alongside constance remains, and those two were

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<v Speaker 2>a direct match for curtains that were found hanging in

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<v Speaker 2>the kitchen in that same unit at the River Terrace

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<v Speaker 2>unit complex. And not only that, but the man who

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<v Speaker 2>was living in that apartment confirmed that the curtains appeared

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<v Speaker 2>to be from the unit. So this is also a

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<v Speaker 2>man who was one of the last people to see

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<v Speaker 2>Constance alive, and that just begins some of the evidence

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<v Speaker 2>that places Constance with these three men that we will

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<v Speaker 2>speak of in this episode. There was also a white

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<v Speaker 2>floral pillowcase that matched the same pattern as a sheet

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<v Speaker 2>located both in the unit and with Constance's remains. Amy,

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<v Speaker 2>based on just some of that evidence, what else to

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<v Speaker 2>these three men that we're speaking of to Constance's disappearance?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as well as that during the coronial inquest, there

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<v Speaker 1>are a number of people who also had their identity

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<v Speaker 1>and their evidence suppressed by the coroner. But there are

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<v Speaker 1>things that are still on the public record, And what

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<v Speaker 1>is known is that, as you've pointed out, is that

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<v Speaker 1>Constance was staying in a unit that was effectively a

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<v Speaker 1>two minute walk from where she was found. Her remains

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<v Speaker 1>were actually found by one of those non Indigenous men

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<v Speaker 1>who lived in that same apartment, and he knew Constance

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<v Speaker 1>and was also the last to see her alive. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we can't discuss his identity, and we can't discuss

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<v Speaker 1>some of the evidence. But I think one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that shook the family at the outset, and which

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<v Speaker 1>was known at the outset by the police and in

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<v Speaker 1>the media, was that it seemed like a really unbelievable

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<v Speaker 1>coincidence that the person to find her remains would also

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<v Speaker 1>be one of the last to see her alive. But yes,

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<v Speaker 1>there was these really shocking moments within the inquest where,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, one of the men whose name was Dallas

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<v Speaker 1>Bandman and who didn't have his evidence suppressed, actually agreed

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<v Speaker 1>that yes, that was the curtain and that was the

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<v Speaker 1>bag that he believed he gave to Sam and Constance

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<v Speaker 1>when he supposedly last saw them. The other thing to

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<v Speaker 1>point out is that another one of the men who

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<v Speaker 1>was named Sam's subject and also gave evidence that the

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<v Speaker 1>inquest had actually been Constance's ex partner. And in the

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<v Speaker 1>days leading up to constance disappearing, which were only four

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<v Speaker 1>days so Constants had just been released from a very

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<v Speaker 1>short term of imprisonment at the Brisbane Correctional Center. She

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<v Speaker 1>had been heavily surveiled by police when she had been

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<v Speaker 1>released in those four days, but she'd also seen a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of her friends and a lot of her family

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<v Speaker 1>in Brisbane, and many witnesses had reported that she had

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<v Speaker 1>bruises on her body. Her ex partner had actually seen

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<v Speaker 1>her and said that she had complained that Sam Subject

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<v Speaker 1>was stalking her, and so people were really concerned when

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't see her after November twenty seventh or twenty eighth,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that this was really uncharacteristic, that something may

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<v Speaker 1>have happened to her. And when we were sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>the inquest, this evidence came out connecting where Constance was

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<v Speaker 1>found to this particular unit. There was evidence suggesting foul play,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet there was also this really strange lack of

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<v Speaker 1>evidence which didn't fit the gravity of the situation. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the way Constance was found, the fact that she had

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<v Speaker 1>been brutally murdered, and that really came out in the

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<v Speaker 1>inquest finding by the coroner when she claimed that she

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<v Speaker 1>left it open for something else to have happened to

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<v Speaker 1>cause Constance's death. And this came up when the forensic

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<v Speaker 1>pathologist gave evidence the pathologists who had conducted an autopsy

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<v Speaker 1>on Constance, and the coroner had actually questioned the forensic

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<v Speaker 1>pathologist about whether injuries or certain injuries could have been

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<v Speaker 1>perpetrated in relation to hanging. So underlying this really you know,

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<v Speaker 1>brutal process was this assumption again which we've seen with

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<v Speaker 1>many cases of disappeared Aboriginal women, is that they've somehow

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<v Speaker 1>caused their own death, and that to me was absolutely shocking.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think there was evidence and yet there also

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to be a lack of evidence. And the other

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<v Speaker 1>thing I would point out as well is that during

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<v Speaker 1>the inquest, as I previously said, the police were first

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<v Speaker 1>looking at Constance's death as a murder. During the inquest,

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<v Speaker 1>the lead investigator at Dad and Park's CIB, which had

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<v Speaker 1>carriage of the investigation, had basically said he didn't consider

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<v Speaker 1>it a homicide investigation. It was still just a suspicious death.

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<v Speaker 1>And he was questioned quite a couple of times by

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<v Speaker 1>Constance's children's legal representative about how that even made sense,

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<v Speaker 1>how that was even logical, and he can still continued

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<v Speaker 1>to say we had no evidence to suggest a homicide,

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<v Speaker 1>and that to me was again unbelievable given the gravity

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<v Speaker 1>of what had obviously happened to Constance, and also reperpetrated

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of hurt and pain on her family who

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<v Speaker 1>had to sit through this evidence and could see that

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<v Speaker 1>this is obviously foul play and yet to have their

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<v Speaker 1>own questions repeatedly ignored by the investigators. MANA, did you

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<v Speaker 1>want to add to that in relation to the autopsy?

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<v Speaker 2>I think most troubling to me about the suggestion that,

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<v Speaker 2>or even the underlying implication that suicide could have been

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<v Speaker 2>a cause of death is absurd when you know and

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<v Speaker 2>remember that Constance's body was found as the coroner was

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<v Speaker 2>told by doctor Reid, the forensic pathologist, that her body

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<v Speaker 2>had been dismembered and dismantled, and he said particularly that

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<v Speaker 2>a reasonable degree of care had been exercised to disarticulate

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<v Speaker 2>the limbs. Now, to be really blunt about it, how

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<v Speaker 2>can a person possibly commit suicide? And the suggestion was

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<v Speaker 2>potentially by hanging. It really is absurd. And given that

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<v Speaker 2>the confronting nature of how Constance was found and what

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<v Speaker 2>had been done to her body, it was very clear

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<v Speaker 2>that this was not just a murder, but something that

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<v Speaker 2>had been done very very deliberately and potentially, as doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Reed explained, by someone who wasn't in a rush and

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<v Speaker 2>knew what they were doing. This should really worry not

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<v Speaker 2>just anyone who cares about Constance, but anyone in the public.

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<v Speaker 2>Where you have a coroner hearing this evidence from an

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<v Speaker 2>expert in their field and then opining about other theories

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<v Speaker 2>that really do not fit the evidence. And then there

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<v Speaker 2>was something else that points to foul play. The unit

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<v Speaker 2>at the River Terrace Complex in Kangaroo Point was set

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<v Speaker 2>on fire and a witness at the inquest, and I'll

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<v Speaker 2>just give his first name, Cameron told him that Dallas

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<v Speaker 2>had admitted to him that he'd set his own unit

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<v Speaker 2>on fire because Sam, that's Constance's ex partner, had told

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<v Speaker 2>him to do so. Another witness also suggested that Dallas

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<v Speaker 2>had set his unit on fire. And given that there

0:14:24.631 --> 0:14:29.031
<v Speaker 2>was substantial evidence like the curtains, the floral bed sheets

0:14:29.071 --> 0:14:32.471
<v Speaker 2>and pillow case, the pink paint, who knows what else

0:14:32.831 --> 0:14:36.151
<v Speaker 2>was there that the police were yet to find. And

0:14:36.191 --> 0:14:40.391
<v Speaker 2>then that unit is burnt to the ground. Again, none

0:14:40.391 --> 0:14:44.351
<v Speaker 2>of this points to the fact that Constance had harmed herself,

0:14:44.471 --> 0:14:48.791
<v Speaker 2>and everything points to the fact that these men were

0:14:48.871 --> 0:14:54.391
<v Speaker 2>involved in Constance's disappearance. And on the day it is

0:14:54.471 --> 0:15:00.351
<v Speaker 2>believed that Constance was murdered, Dallas banman had actually called

0:15:00.511 --> 0:15:04.311
<v Speaker 2>Triple zero from that unit and he he said to

0:15:04.391 --> 0:15:08.191
<v Speaker 2>the operator and I quote, some guy pushed his way

0:15:08.271 --> 0:15:11.751
<v Speaker 2>into our house and won't let us leave. He's robbing

0:15:11.871 --> 0:15:16.191
<v Speaker 2>us and bashing us. A Bosnian looking dude named Sam,

0:15:16.631 --> 0:15:22.151
<v Speaker 2>again referring to Constance's ex partner. So now you also

0:15:22.311 --> 0:15:27.711
<v Speaker 2>have this man Sam, who is seen with Constance by eyewitnesses,

0:15:28.431 --> 0:15:31.151
<v Speaker 2>who is seen by the other men at the unit

0:15:31.511 --> 0:15:35.031
<v Speaker 2>with Constance, who then returns the next day to that

0:15:35.231 --> 0:15:40.751
<v Speaker 2>unit where there is endless forensic evidence linking that unit

0:15:40.911 --> 0:15:45.511
<v Speaker 2>back to Constance's body, and this guy is breaking in

0:15:46.631 --> 0:15:49.191
<v Speaker 2>and trying to rob and bash the people who live

0:15:49.231 --> 0:15:53.311
<v Speaker 2>in that unit. This surely points to the fact that

0:15:53.391 --> 0:15:58.591
<v Speaker 2>this gentleman was absolutely involved, and yet there is nothing

0:15:58.631 --> 0:16:01.951
<v Speaker 2>that comes out of this inquest that he was ever

0:16:02.111 --> 0:16:06.711
<v Speaker 2>subjected to much of a police investigation at all. Again,

0:16:06.751 --> 0:16:10.471
<v Speaker 2>as I said before, how the broader public read any

0:16:10.511 --> 0:16:14.311
<v Speaker 2>of this and aren't concerned that a potential killer is

0:16:14.431 --> 0:16:20.911
<v Speaker 2>just allowed to walk free. How police, politicians, and especially

0:16:20.991 --> 0:16:28.351
<v Speaker 2>the coroner themselves knows this information and yet doesn't recommend anything,

0:16:28.991 --> 0:16:34.551
<v Speaker 2>simply states unknown, unknown, undetermined, and displays a lack of

0:16:34.711 --> 0:16:39.511
<v Speaker 2>care towards the family knowing all of this evidence. That

0:16:39.631 --> 0:16:42.831
<v Speaker 2>is simply indescribable. And I think that takes us to

0:16:42.991 --> 0:16:47.151
<v Speaker 2>what we wish to discuss, which is do these coronial

0:16:47.191 --> 0:16:51.551
<v Speaker 2>in quests serve a purpose at all for Aboriginal interrestraight

0:16:51.591 --> 0:17:14.031
<v Speaker 2>islander families. I mean, you were there on that day

0:17:14.071 --> 0:17:17.551
<v Speaker 2>when the findings were handed down. Do you think this

0:17:17.711 --> 0:17:20.271
<v Speaker 2>inquest actually harmed the family.

0:17:20.351 --> 0:17:23.391
<v Speaker 1>More, I think it shouldn't have even got into an

0:17:23.431 --> 0:17:27.471
<v Speaker 1>inquest at this point because I think what has happened

0:17:27.551 --> 0:17:30.591
<v Speaker 1>is that there's this degree of finality to the proceedings,

0:17:30.831 --> 0:17:36.151
<v Speaker 1>and also the inquest sort of justifies itself, if that

0:17:36.271 --> 0:17:39.991
<v Speaker 1>makes sense. It didn't seem to be focused towards finding

0:17:40.071 --> 0:17:42.751
<v Speaker 1>the truth of what had happened to Constance, even though

0:17:42.751 --> 0:17:45.351
<v Speaker 1>that was in the terms of reference. It seemed to

0:17:45.351 --> 0:17:49.431
<v Speaker 1>be almost like a ticker box exercise. And one of

0:17:49.471 --> 0:17:52.231
<v Speaker 1>the really disturbing things to come out of the inquest

0:17:52.351 --> 0:17:55.991
<v Speaker 1>is that the coroner had determined that the police investigation

0:17:56.191 --> 0:17:59.351
<v Speaker 1>itself was not something that she was going to critique

0:17:59.471 --> 0:18:02.911
<v Speaker 1>or look into or examine. So there's very fundamental question

0:18:02.951 --> 0:18:06.431
<v Speaker 1>is that the family had around why haven't people been

0:18:06.511 --> 0:18:10.071
<v Speaker 1>charged in the relation to the murder of Constance? Was

0:18:10.311 --> 0:18:14.111
<v Speaker 1>not answered because the police investigation was not part of

0:18:14.151 --> 0:18:17.631
<v Speaker 1>the inquest. And I've sat through a number of these inquests,

0:18:17.631 --> 0:18:20.271
<v Speaker 1>I've never sat through an inquest like this in which

0:18:20.391 --> 0:18:25.111
<v Speaker 1>no police officers have really been called to give answers

0:18:25.111 --> 0:18:27.711
<v Speaker 1>in relation to that. Usually you have a few officers

0:18:27.751 --> 0:18:30.391
<v Speaker 1>who are witnesses. In this case, there was only one.

0:18:30.431 --> 0:18:33.911
<v Speaker 1>The lead investigator at Dunda Park's CIB and the police

0:18:33.911 --> 0:18:37.791
<v Speaker 1>officer who was there to find Constance's remains. There was

0:18:37.871 --> 0:18:42.191
<v Speaker 1>no testimony given by a missing person's unit about what

0:18:42.231 --> 0:18:44.951
<v Speaker 1>they had done when Constance was disappeared in those ten months,

0:18:45.511 --> 0:18:48.671
<v Speaker 1>and there was no testimony given by the state homicide

0:18:48.671 --> 0:18:53.791
<v Speaker 1>squad about why they had left the investigation effectively nearly

0:18:53.831 --> 0:18:57.231
<v Speaker 1>a year after Constance was found and what their role is,

0:18:57.311 --> 0:19:00.871
<v Speaker 1>why they didn't take over carriage of this investigation at

0:19:00.911 --> 0:19:04.311
<v Speaker 1>every stage it was at Dunham Park's CIB. No questions

0:19:04.311 --> 0:19:07.271
<v Speaker 1>about whether there would be extra resources if homicide had

0:19:07.311 --> 0:19:09.791
<v Speaker 1>taken over, but at every point they just had a

0:19:09.831 --> 0:19:13.831
<v Speaker 1>level two roll and then effectively disengaged from the investigation

0:19:14.431 --> 0:19:17.271
<v Speaker 1>within a year. So there were no questions raised about

0:19:17.271 --> 0:19:19.031
<v Speaker 1>how we actually got to this point where we're at

0:19:19.031 --> 0:19:21.511
<v Speaker 1>an inquest or not at the Supreme Court, and that

0:19:21.631 --> 0:19:24.351
<v Speaker 1>was something that was questioned by the families. And I

0:19:24.351 --> 0:19:26.631
<v Speaker 1>think the other thing that emerged in the coronial processes

0:19:26.831 --> 0:19:30.951
<v Speaker 1>was again another disappearing of Constance and her family had

0:19:31.031 --> 0:19:34.231
<v Speaker 1>done so much in order to make sure Constance and

0:19:34.271 --> 0:19:38.391
<v Speaker 1>who she was was remembered. They brought across from Sherburg

0:19:38.511 --> 0:19:42.151
<v Speaker 1>to the courthouse, they brought a wreath of red and

0:19:42.151 --> 0:19:45.751
<v Speaker 1>black and yellow flowers, they brought pictures how they wanted

0:19:45.751 --> 0:19:48.951
<v Speaker 1>people to remember contestants, and the very first day of

0:19:48.991 --> 0:19:52.191
<v Speaker 1>the inquest her children. So she had ten children, and

0:19:52.271 --> 0:19:54.951
<v Speaker 1>she had four who were now adults or on the

0:19:54.951 --> 0:19:58.511
<v Speaker 1>cusp of adulthood, who gave a really moving letter address

0:19:58.591 --> 0:20:01.751
<v Speaker 1>to their mother and remembering everything that she used to

0:20:01.791 --> 0:20:03.831
<v Speaker 1>do with them, about how she used to do hug

0:20:03.911 --> 0:20:06.591
<v Speaker 1>and kissed them, and how she would take them to

0:20:06.671 --> 0:20:09.671
<v Speaker 1>the park and they'd play on swings and they'd throw boomerangues,

0:20:09.831 --> 0:20:12.351
<v Speaker 1>and they just remembered all of these things, and yet

0:20:12.351 --> 0:20:15.071
<v Speaker 1>they felt they'd been clearly denied that time that they

0:20:15.071 --> 0:20:17.871
<v Speaker 1>could have spent knowing their mother as they grew up.

0:20:17.951 --> 0:20:20.391
<v Speaker 1>And that really came out of the inquest the other

0:20:20.431 --> 0:20:22.351
<v Speaker 1>day when a number of her children were there. And

0:20:22.391 --> 0:20:25.511
<v Speaker 1>it's really hard to talk about these things because of

0:20:25.551 --> 0:20:28.031
<v Speaker 1>what has happened to concerts, for what happened afterwards, and

0:20:28.071 --> 0:20:31.831
<v Speaker 1>the fact that the coroner seemed very comfortable in delivering

0:20:31.871 --> 0:20:35.551
<v Speaker 1>nothing for the families and was almost even aggravated when

0:20:35.591 --> 0:20:39.591
<v Speaker 1>the families contested her own finding. And so I just

0:20:39.631 --> 0:20:43.591
<v Speaker 1>don't believe these inquests are there to provide answers for families,

0:20:43.671 --> 0:20:47.991
<v Speaker 1>especially in cases of disappeared Aboriginal women and there, as

0:20:48.111 --> 0:20:50.791
<v Speaker 1>our listeners would know, there's been a number of inquests

0:20:50.871 --> 0:20:53.991
<v Speaker 1>recently in Queensland, but all across the country in which

0:20:54.151 --> 0:20:57.511
<v Speaker 1>families have not even close to receiving any form of

0:20:57.711 --> 0:21:00.911
<v Speaker 1>justice through the coronial process. MNA just hearing that, what

0:21:00.991 --> 0:21:03.471
<v Speaker 1>would you take from particularly this in quest in relation

0:21:04.071 --> 0:21:06.671
<v Speaker 1>to these cases, are they even the right place to

0:21:06.711 --> 0:21:09.831
<v Speaker 1>be looking for truth or any sort of accountability.

0:21:10.031 --> 0:21:12.951
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's clear from the inquests just that

0:21:12.991 --> 0:21:17.791
<v Speaker 2>we've covered in this podcast that not one has delivered

0:21:17.951 --> 0:21:21.391
<v Speaker 2>any answers or the truth for a family. They haven't

0:21:21.431 --> 0:21:26.111
<v Speaker 2>been served. There's been no charges laid as a result,

0:21:26.591 --> 0:21:31.391
<v Speaker 2>despite extraordinary amounts of evidence put before the coroner's court.

0:21:31.471 --> 0:21:34.991
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's part of what troubles family so much,

0:21:35.191 --> 0:21:41.551
<v Speaker 2>is that despite terrible police investigations, there is an extraordinary

0:21:41.631 --> 0:21:46.271
<v Speaker 2>amount of evidence against individuals involved in the murders of

0:21:46.391 --> 0:21:50.151
<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal women and children, and yet there are no charges.

0:21:50.271 --> 0:21:55.831
<v Speaker 2>And this happens in the backdrop of a huge amount

0:21:55.871 --> 0:22:01.231
<v Speaker 2>of gender based violence in this country, where tens and

0:22:01.311 --> 0:22:05.831
<v Speaker 2>tens of women are being murdered every year. At the

0:22:05.871 --> 0:22:09.151
<v Speaker 2>start of the year, there was the disappearance of Samantha

0:22:09.231 --> 0:22:14.071
<v Speaker 2>Murphy in Victoria and her body has sadly not yet

0:22:14.111 --> 0:22:19.871
<v Speaker 2>been recovered, and yet a man has been charged with

0:22:19.951 --> 0:22:24.151
<v Speaker 2>her murder, and his charges are based on the fact

0:22:24.191 --> 0:22:29.071
<v Speaker 2>that the police hypothesized that he killed her in the

0:22:29.151 --> 0:22:33.031
<v Speaker 2>Mount Clear area. Well, in Constance's case, you don't have

0:22:33.111 --> 0:22:38.191
<v Speaker 2>to hypothesize. You have direct evidence, the pink paint, the curtains,

0:22:38.231 --> 0:22:43.151
<v Speaker 2>the pillow case linking that unit directly to these three men.

0:22:43.231 --> 0:22:49.191
<v Speaker 2>You have eyewitnesses who see the ex partner with Constance

0:22:49.551 --> 0:22:51.831
<v Speaker 2>the day leading up to her death and the day

0:22:51.951 --> 0:22:54.871
<v Speaker 2>most likely of her death. You have the fact that

0:22:54.911 --> 0:22:58.791
<v Speaker 2>the unit was set on fire where that evidence was found.

0:22:59.431 --> 0:23:03.471
<v Speaker 2>You have the fact that a forensic pathologist explained that

0:23:03.711 --> 0:23:08.151
<v Speaker 2>someone had gone to great lengths to dismantle and dismember

0:23:08.191 --> 0:23:11.871
<v Speaker 2>her body. This is a brutal killing. The fact that

0:23:12.071 --> 0:23:17.031
<v Speaker 2>suicide even becomes a suggestion is offensive and I really

0:23:17.071 --> 0:23:20.831
<v Speaker 2>think it goes back to what the police are doing

0:23:21.391 --> 0:23:26.791
<v Speaker 2>and what the media demand of the police. Again, in Victoria,

0:23:27.551 --> 0:23:31.351
<v Speaker 2>with the disappearance of Samantha Murphy, we've seen hundreds of

0:23:31.471 --> 0:23:37.911
<v Speaker 2>police officers deployed. We've seen the use of triangulation to

0:23:38.071 --> 0:23:42.431
<v Speaker 2>her Apple watch and mobile phone. We've seen the dog squad,

0:23:42.631 --> 0:23:48.151
<v Speaker 2>mounted branch, air wing branch, the Victorian State Emergency Services

0:23:48.711 --> 0:23:53.831
<v Speaker 2>Parks Victoria, the Country Fire Authority, and even the terrorism

0:23:53.911 --> 0:23:58.551
<v Speaker 2>squad involved in trying to solve this case as they

0:23:58.591 --> 0:24:04.031
<v Speaker 2>should and to locate her body. And yet, for instance,

0:24:04.071 --> 0:24:08.951
<v Speaker 2>may watch you, none of that is done. Nothing, And

0:24:08.991 --> 0:24:12.031
<v Speaker 2>I think this just proves what an absolute waste of

0:24:12.111 --> 0:24:16.151
<v Speaker 2>time these coronial inquests are. And worse than that is

0:24:16.151 --> 0:24:19.471
<v Speaker 2>that a coronial in quest puts a full stop at

0:24:19.471 --> 0:24:23.591
<v Speaker 2>the end, having given no answers to the family, having

0:24:23.791 --> 0:24:29.151
<v Speaker 2>presented nothing by the coroner about who Constance was, despite

0:24:29.191 --> 0:24:32.711
<v Speaker 2>her family, her children going to great lengths to tell

0:24:32.791 --> 0:24:36.951
<v Speaker 2>the coroner who Constance was, despite all the evidence, a

0:24:37.031 --> 0:24:40.871
<v Speaker 2>full stop is put and most likely these men will

0:24:40.911 --> 0:24:45.951
<v Speaker 2>remain free and never face the consequences of what they've done. Meanwhile,

0:24:46.551 --> 0:24:51.631
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of police are deployed for a white woman in Victoria,

0:24:52.151 --> 0:24:55.511
<v Speaker 2>and that's the state of affairs, and you can't argue

0:24:55.511 --> 0:24:59.311
<v Speaker 2>with that. And so I really think now it is

0:24:59.391 --> 0:25:02.871
<v Speaker 2>on the media who hear this to ask the questions

0:25:03.271 --> 0:25:06.711
<v Speaker 2>of the police to ask the questions of the coroner's

0:25:06.711 --> 0:25:10.471
<v Speaker 2>office to hold these people in positions of power to account.

0:25:10.791 --> 0:25:14.511
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise the media is just simply exposing their own racism.

0:25:15.431 --> 0:25:19.671
<v Speaker 2>Thousands of column inches have been dedicated to other women

0:25:19.791 --> 0:25:23.071
<v Speaker 2>who are missing and murdered in this country, and very few,

0:25:23.111 --> 0:25:27.111
<v Speaker 2>if any, other than the work of Amy are ever

0:25:27.191 --> 0:25:30.391
<v Speaker 2>dedicated to the aborige in Lentora Strait island of women

0:25:30.431 --> 0:25:34.071
<v Speaker 2>and children. And until that changes, there just won't be

0:25:34.191 --> 0:25:38.471
<v Speaker 2>the pressure on police to provide the truth that these

0:25:38.471 --> 0:25:43.031
<v Speaker 2>families deserve and the justice that should be brought against

0:25:43.031 --> 0:25:48.191
<v Speaker 2>these men. This episode was brought to you by black

0:25:48.271 --> 0:25:51.911
<v Speaker 2>Cast and produced by Clint Curtis. For more you can

0:25:52.031 --> 0:25:56.751
<v Speaker 2>visit us at www dot Curtainthepodcast dot com, follow us

0:25:56.831 --> 0:26:00.391
<v Speaker 2>on Twitter at Impertin Podcast, and help to support our

0:26:00.471 --> 0:26:15.831
<v Speaker 2>work at patreon dot com. Backslash Burton Podcast