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Speaker 1: But look, last week Martin Dole, APM was appointed the

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Speaker 1: fifteenth police Commissioner, who is going to be based in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs. The Chief Minister told us she's confident the

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Speaker 1: commissioner is going to take the force forward in the

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Speaker 1: interests of the community and frontline officers. But while the

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Speaker 1: police associations congratulated mister Dole on his appointment, they have

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Speaker 1: raised some concerns over how it happened. Now joining us

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Speaker 1: in the studio is the Northern Territory's newest Police Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: Martin Dole.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie, and good morning

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Speaker 2: to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, thanks so much for your time this morning. Now,

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Speaker 1: first off, I mean congratulations. Are you feeling How are

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Speaker 1: you feeling about taking on the role permanently?

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, I think it's a little bit surreal. It

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Speaker 2: happened quite quickly. I was only aware of it last

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Speaker 2: Tuesday when I caught a call from the Chief Chief

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Speaker 2: Minister after cabinet, so it's all happened a little bit quickly.

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Speaker 2: But can I say I've been doing that role for

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Speaker 2: the last seven months and it's about stability, So I'm

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Speaker 2: really honored and privileged to be asked to continue to

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Speaker 2: leave the police force. And I think we're heading in

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Speaker 2: the right direction.

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Speaker 1: I mean territory boy. I can't remember whether you were

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Speaker 1: born in the Northern Territory, but certainly have been in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory for a long time. Spent a large

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Speaker 1: portion of your childhood in you and Dumou, which I

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Speaker 1: found quite interesting. And then you're an Alice Springs boy

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Speaker 1: through and through. By the sounds of.

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Speaker 2: USh, Yeah, that's right, Katie. So I was born in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. I was born here in Darwin at

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Speaker 2: Miley Point, at the old hospital which is now a park. Yes,

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Speaker 2: spent the early years of my life growing up and

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Speaker 2: being raised in the Moon and then moved to Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs when it was time for schooling and grew up

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Speaker 2: in Alla Springs. So territory born and bred through and through.

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Speaker 1: How do you reckon that upbringing sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: will help to shape the way that you lead the

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Speaker 1: police force in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's a distinct advantage having somebody

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Speaker 2: that understands the Northern Territory, that has lived in all

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Speaker 2: parts of the Northern territory and understands the nuances and

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Speaker 2: the history behind some of the decisions and the things

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Speaker 2: that the territory have been through in its time. So

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Speaker 2: to me, it's been an advantage in my policing career

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Speaker 2: in my twenty nine years as being a police officer,

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Speaker 2: and it's definitely going to be an advantage to me

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Speaker 2: as the commissioner continuing to lead this force into the future.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, the Police Association's congratulated you on your appointment and

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Speaker 1: say that you are a well respected, long serving officer,

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Speaker 1: but they've raised concerns about the direct appointment, saying that

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Speaker 1: it was made without a transparent recruitment process and they

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Speaker 1: reckon it undermines public trust and ignores the recent inquiry

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Speaker 1: recommendations into senior police appointments. What do you say to

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Speaker 1: those who are worried about the way in which you're

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Speaker 1: appointed and you know, and to those that may feel

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Speaker 1: that it does undermine public trust.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I don't think it's about getting into arguments

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Speaker 2: or trying to encounter the narrative that the Police Association

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Speaker 2: are put out there. I think it's really healthy for

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Speaker 2: modern police forces to have scrutiny and strong representation through

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Speaker 2: associations and unions. So I'm not taking away anything from

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Speaker 2: what Nathan said. And Nathan said that he purports to

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Speaker 2: speak on behalf of the police force. It's not lost

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Speaker 2: on me that not everybody in the police force will

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Speaker 2: be happy with that appointment. And that's something I have

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Speaker 2: to accept and that's something I have to continue to

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Speaker 2: address as I continue to lead this police force into

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Speaker 2: the future.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, taking that into account. And you said

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Speaker 1: there that some within the force may not sort of

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Speaker 1: like the way that this process happened or the way

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Speaker 1: in which that appointment was made. But you know, what

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Speaker 1: do you say to those people that you know that

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Speaker 1: maybe are feeling a little bit concerned Because I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of police officers listen to this show, and

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Speaker 1: I know, well, I'm sure that for you, a real

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Speaker 1: priority is to try and bring the police force forward,

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Speaker 1: you know, to have everybody part of your team and

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Speaker 1: really move the Northern Territory forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, I suppose, Katie. What I'll say is we won't

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Speaker 2: always agree on every single process, but one thing that

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Speaker 2: myself and the association do agree on and absolutely agree

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Speaker 2: on is the goal, and that's about a well supported

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Speaker 2: and strong police force. So we have differing opinions. I

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Speaker 2: think that's healthy. It's healthy that they're both represented publicly.

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Speaker 2: But I think when it fundamentally comes down to what's important,

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Speaker 2: it's about the men and women of this police force

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Speaker 2: making sure that they're properly resourced, they have the appropriate

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Speaker 2: legislation to enable them to do their business, and that

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Speaker 2: they've got a leadership team that's invested in their well

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Speaker 2: being and supporting them.

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Speaker 1: What will your priorities be in this role. I know

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Speaker 1: you've potentially been sort of you know, trying to deliver

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Speaker 1: on those for the last seven months as well, but

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Speaker 1: what are your priorities going to be?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Katie, for me, it's really about evolution, not revolution.

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Speaker 2: I'm not coming in with a mandate to change everything

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Speaker 2: because I think the police force has been through a

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Speaker 2: tumultuous time in the last decade. There's been a significant

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Speaker 2: man of change. There's been structural change, there's been leadership change,

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Speaker 2: and what I really want to bring is stability. So

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Speaker 2: currently my priorities are six recommendations that the government have

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Speaker 2: directed me to implement from the Blow Report, and that's

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Speaker 2: currently what I'm working on. Flowing from those recommendations will

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Speaker 2: be the recruitment and the stabilization of the senior executive

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Speaker 2: of this Northern Territory Police Force. So that will flow

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Speaker 2: on from those recommendations. Clear policy in place for transparency

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Speaker 2: around senior selections, and then that enables us to fill

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Speaker 2: the positions that have been vacant for some time. Now.

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Speaker 1: I know the Chief Finister has credited you with the

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Speaker 1: OC spray rollout. How do you feel it's tracking?

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, you know that's a project that was never

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Speaker 2: without some controversy in risks, but over ninety eight percent

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Speaker 2: of people purchasing OC spray have done so in alignment

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Speaker 2: with the terms and conditions of the trial. There's been

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Speaker 2: a small percentage which we always knew wouldn't comply with

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Speaker 2: those conditions, but every single purchase has been audited. Those

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Speaker 2: people that haven't complied or have obtained it illegally have

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Speaker 2: been tracked down. All of that spray has been recovered

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Speaker 2: and some of those people have been prosecuted in relation

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Speaker 2: to their actions.

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Speaker 1: Have more people purchased it than what you maybe thoughts

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Speaker 1: were going to or do you reckon it's you know,

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Speaker 1: is it sort of tracking the way that you'd anticipated

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Speaker 1: in that sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I don't think there's any surprises in the numbers, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Is about fifteen hundred people have purchased it across the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory. I don't know if there was any sort

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Speaker 2: of set figure that people had in mind, because this

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Speaker 2: is a personal decision. This is legalizing something that gives

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Speaker 2: people a choice if they decide they want to go

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Speaker 2: out and have that option to defend themselves. So I

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Speaker 2: don't think there was any real prediction of what those

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Speaker 2: numbers would be. But fifteen hundred people across the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory have made that choice to take that course of action.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know there has been well, there's certainly been

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about the rollout of the new

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Speaker 1: ppso stream of officers. Where are things at with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Katie, when you establish a new position in

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Speaker 2: any agency, there's an incredible amount of back end work

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Speaker 2: that needs to be done. So that's involved legislative change,

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Speaker 2: it's involved ordering of uniforms, it's involved designing a training

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Speaker 2: course at the Police College. So all of that back

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Speaker 2: end work's been done. We're just in the process of

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Speaker 2: finalizing the remuneration package. So exactly what the terms and

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Speaker 2: conditions of those ppsos will be, and that's obviously going

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Speaker 2: to have to be in consultation. The next steps of

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Speaker 2: that will be in consultation with the Police Association who

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Speaker 2: are going to be representing those new members, and we're

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Speaker 2: really hopeful that we'll be commencing a course before the

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Speaker 2: end of this year to graduate in the first quarter

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Speaker 2: of next year.

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Speaker 1: How big an impact do you think that stream of

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Speaker 1: PPSO going to have, you know, on some of the

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Speaker 1: issues that we've seen around the place that in some

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Speaker 1: ways shouldn't be massive issues. You know, people sort of

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Speaker 1: on you know, like they might be sleeping rough and

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Speaker 1: then having you know, like drinking alcohol in places where

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Speaker 1: they shouldn't be. You know, some of the is is

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Speaker 1: that we're seeing on our public bus network that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. What kind of impact do you reckon it's

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Speaker 1: going to.

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Speaker 2: Have, Katie, Look, I'm hopeful and I believe it's going

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Speaker 2: to have a huge impact because one of the core

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Speaker 2: functions of policing under the Act is prevention. So this

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Speaker 2: stream of police officers, and they are sworn police officers

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Speaker 2: under the Act, give us the ability to focus on

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Speaker 2: the prevention side. Of policing that we really have been

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Speaker 2: a bit hampered from being able to do because of

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Speaker 2: the increase in the demand for our services. So we're

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Speaker 2: still going to have the same amount of police in

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Speaker 2: vans responding to matters and investigating crimes and attending court

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Speaker 2: and prosecuting matters, but this gives us the ability to

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Speaker 2: really be forward facing, highly visible and in that preventative

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Speaker 2: space that potentially has the ability to stop the criminalization

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Speaker 2: of behavior that doesn't have to be criminal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I know for myself and I know others

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Speaker 1: would you know, I would agree with this certainly from

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Speaker 1: messages we've received on the tech side and things like

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Speaker 1: that over the years that it has felt over the

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Speaker 1: last few years that we'd sort of reached a point

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Speaker 1: where it didn't feel like there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: proactive policing happening, and we all understood that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the police are understrained. There was so much crime, or

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Speaker 1: it seemed like there was so much crime happening, and

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Speaker 1: our police so often, you know, we're being called out

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Speaker 1: like triaging, I suppose, like you do if you're in

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Speaker 1: an emergency ward in a hospital where you're having to

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Speaker 1: triarge different jobs so it felt like some of that

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Speaker 1: proactive policing wasn't happening. Is that something that you're keen

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Speaker 1: to sort of really see happening again.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so that's exactly right. You hit the nail on

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Speaker 2: the head. So the demand in the services and the

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Speaker 2: demand in the calls for police stripped our ability away

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Speaker 2: from being forward facing, being highly visible and stopping things

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Speaker 2: before they became bigger problems. And when you're stuck in

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Speaker 2: that cycle, it's really hard to get out of that.

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Speaker 2: But this gives us the ability and it gives the

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Speaker 2: police the ability to have positive interactions when we're not

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Speaker 2: just dealing with the end result of bad behavior. We

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Speaker 2: can nip it in the bud before it occurs. We

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Speaker 2: can and address problem drinking, we can address any social behavior,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully we can divert a lot of that away

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Speaker 2: from the justice system. And to me, it's going to

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Speaker 2: have immense flow on effects. It's going to reduce court loads,

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Speaker 2: it's going to reduce incarceration, and it's really one of

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Speaker 2: our core functions that we should be out there doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, I know there's been a bit said about

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Speaker 1: the fact that you're going to be managing the role

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Speaker 1: of Commissioner from Alice Springs. Do you foresee any hurdles

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Speaker 1: being being based in Alice.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't, Katie. So, Look, leadership is not about

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Speaker 2: a postcode. I've been doing this role for the last

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Speaker 2: seven months. I live in Ala Springs. The Commissioner's role

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Speaker 2: is not about where he's based. It's about leadership across

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Speaker 2: all of the geographical reasons of the Northern Territory. Look,

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Speaker 2: travel sees me going into state a lot, representing the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Force as well, and whether I'm flying

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Speaker 2: out of Alla Springs or flying out of Darwin to

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Speaker 2: do that, it really doesn't matter. With the modern connectivity

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Speaker 2: that's available these days, it's extremely different to it was

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Speaker 2: twenty nine years ago when I joined the job. So

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Speaker 2: it makes electronic file management, the ability to join meetings

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Speaker 2: via teams, all of that just makes it so much

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Speaker 2: easier that it doesn't really matter where you're based in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's some certainly announcements made in

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Speaker 1: relation to a summer plan for Alice Springs, because let's

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Speaker 1: be blunt about it. You know, over recent years, Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs has struggled a bit over that summer period. I

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Speaker 1: mean I say a bit. I think that's putting it mildly.

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Speaker 1: And one thing I will say is you're someone who's

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Speaker 1: always been pretty honest with me about that when we've

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Speaker 1: spoken over the years about those crime rates, and you know,

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Speaker 1: at one point there they were soaring. In terms of

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Speaker 1: the plan for summer, what is planned for Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: and then more broadly for the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: So I think what is what I want to get across,

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Speaker 2: Katie is is that summer comes around every year, and

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Speaker 2: with summer every year is an increase in the demand

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Speaker 2: for policing services and it increase in criminal activity. We

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Speaker 2: know that's the case, but we're ready for it and

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Speaker 2: prepared for it, and we're building off the success, particularly

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Speaker 2: in Central Australia. We're building off the success of Operation

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Speaker 2: Ludlow last year. And that's why it's titled the same

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Speaker 2: because the public in Alice Springs know what they're going

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Speaker 2: to get from the police. They're going to know what

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Speaker 2: to expect because Ludlow's a familiar term. It's that high

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Speaker 2: visibility policing presence. It's that concentration on proactive work. It's

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Speaker 2: patrolling hot spots. It's having the ability to surge resources

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Speaker 2: when they're required to hot spots and address crime rather

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Speaker 2: than sit back and wait and just be stuck into

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Speaker 2: the response mode. It's actually getting out there and doing

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Speaker 2: those things proactively.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon? I know it's you know, it is

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Speaker 1: sort of early days in terms of some of the

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Speaker 1: legislative changes, and we've definitely had some changes when it

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Speaker 1: comes to you know, surpro being used rather than the

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Speaker 1: old promise system. To those out there listening, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's a computer system of course at the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police use in terms of logging jobs, et cetera. Are

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Speaker 1: we seeing a decrease in crime? I guess is what

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to ask.

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Speaker 2: We definitely are seeing a decrease in crime, Katie. And

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Speaker 2: whilst I don't want to spook successes, what we're doing

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Speaker 2: is working and the territory is a safer place today

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Speaker 2: than it was twelve months ago. But there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of work to continue, Katie. And there's no way the

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Speaker 2: Norn Territory Police arresting on our laurels and going we've

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Speaker 2: sold everything because we have not nice small decreases in

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Speaker 2: crime across all crime types across the Northern Territory. I

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Speaker 2: won't shy away from the fact that there's still some

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Speaker 2: hot spots and there's still spikes, and as we see those,

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Speaker 2: we address those. But three things are trending in the

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Speaker 2: right direction. But consistency and concentrated effort by the men

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Speaker 2: and women of this Northern Territory Police Force. So we're

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Speaker 2: going to continue to help drive down that crime.

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Speaker 1: And look, I want to say as well that you know,

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Speaker 1: to anybody listening this morning that sort of goes, oh, well, look,

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Speaker 1: you know that's the new police commissioner. Of course he's

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Speaker 1: going to say that you're one of the very few

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Speaker 1: people when crime was absolutely peaking a number of years ago,

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Speaker 1: who came in or who spoke to me in our

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Speaker 1: old studio and actually, you're really blunt about it and

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Speaker 1: said to me that crime had gone up. I think

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Speaker 1: it had said at the time. I think it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, threefold on what we'd seen in the previous

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Speaker 1: five years. And it was at a time where I felt,

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Speaker 1: and I think other Territorians felt like we were being

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Speaker 1: gas lit, and you were really honest about it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I said, this is something that we got

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Speaker 1: to deal with. So you know, to me, I know

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Speaker 1: that you certainly wouldn't make that comment lightly in terms

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Speaker 1: of there being a slight decrease. But like I know

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Speaker 1: that I speak on behalf of everybody listening this morning.

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Speaker 1: We're all really hoping that we continue to make those

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Speaker 1: in roads because goodness me, for a while there it

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Speaker 1: felt really tough for a lot of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no escaping Katie that the Territory's been through

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Speaker 2: some tough times. The police force has been through some

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Speaker 2: tough times. But what I want to do is try

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Speaker 2: and restore the confidence in the public in the non

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Speaker 2: Territory Police Force, and that starts here. And that's about

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Speaker 2: being honest with the public. That's about owning our mistakes

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Speaker 2: when we make them, and it's about being honest with

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Speaker 2: what the situation is and that we're faced with. So

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Speaker 2: my mandate really is to try and restore the trust

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Speaker 2: in the great institution of the Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 2: and the fantastic work that the women and men of

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Speaker 2: this agency deliver every day.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, a message coming through on the tech side. Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations to the Commissioner, and please let the new Police

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Speaker 1: commissioner know that the police would love to go back

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Speaker 1: to our roots and have khaki uniforms. Again, what do

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Speaker 1: you reckon.

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Speaker 2: Look, Katie, that has been part of the discussion of

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Speaker 2: as I asked that question the other day. Look, nothing's

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Speaker 2: off the table, but at the moment, that's not our

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Speaker 2: priority at the moment. At the moment, driving down crime

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Territories our priority and making sure the

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Speaker 2: men and women of the police force feel supported. And

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Speaker 2: if that's something that makes them feel supported and back

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Speaker 2: to their grassroots, sure we can consider that into the future.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner. Before I let you go, what do you hope

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Speaker 1: your legacy will be as the Northern Territory's police commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Look, I hope Katie, that my legacy will be that

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Speaker 2: I've bought stability back to the norn Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 2: Ikov said, It's been a tumultuous decade for this agency

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Speaker 2: and I really want that relationship between the police and

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Speaker 2: the community to be restored and that confidence and faith

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Speaker 2: in the police force once again seen across the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole really appreciate your

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Speaker 1: time this morning. Thanks for joining us in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie,