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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers.

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Speaker 1: Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson. Sound quality for

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Speaker 1: this podcast, at least the intro is a little different

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Speaker 1: to normal. It's because I'm in a hotel room. The

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Speaker 1: last couple of weeks have been just enormous for Kylie

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Speaker 1: and I have been traveling around the country giving talks

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Last week I was in Perth

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Speaker 1: for the entire week, working with some wonderful families and

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Speaker 1: brilliant schools up and down the coast in Western Australia

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Speaker 1: and in Perth itself. This week it's been Sydney. I've

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Speaker 1: been at Penrith Christian I've been at MacArthur Anglican School.

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Speaker 1: I spent Wednesday at Shaw the Boys' School in North Sydney,

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Speaker 1: and yesterday I was at Northern Beaches Christian School, talking

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Speaker 1: about respect for relationships, talking about how we can make

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Speaker 1: our families happier and doing my best to help as

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Speaker 1: many families as I can. I love to do this,

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Speaker 1: but every now and again it gets in the way

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Speaker 1: of our podcast recording. Kylie and I can't record, and

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Speaker 1: I'll do better tomorrow this week because I just haven't

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Speaker 1: been able to get into the studio. However, as we

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Speaker 1: combed through the archives and thought about what we could

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Speaker 1: share with you in a podcast, I came across this

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Speaker 1: episode that we're going to share with you now with

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Speaker 1: shoon A Hendley talking about the way we behave at

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Speaker 1: our kids' sporting events. Sports startup for winter in just

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, new seasons just around the corner,

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Speaker 1: and this was a fascinating and really enlightening and positive,

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Speaker 1: maybe even an inspiring conversation about how we can support

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Speaker 1: our kids' best when it comes to their sporting activities

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Speaker 1: on the weekend, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with

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Speaker 1: shoon A Handley about parental behavior at kids sporting events,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be back with all new episodes Happy Families

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Speaker 1: Podcast next week. I'm excited to talk to Shona Henley, journalist,

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Speaker 1: mum and provocateur, somebody who writes a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: articles regularly for the Fairfax Press, for the ABC and

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Speaker 1: whoever else will take her writing talking about parenting observations.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start today's interview with Showona by sharing

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Speaker 1: a story showna I'm going to be a little bit indulgent.

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Speaker 1: We're going to make this about me as much as

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Speaker 1: you for just a sec, okay for it. Some years

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Speaker 1: ago one of my kids, my oldest daughter, probably ten

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Speaker 1: years ago now, was playing netball. She was in the

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Speaker 1: middle of this very high stakes game. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: game mattered a great deal. I was there, I was

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Speaker 1: cheering for her, and what I noticed, Shona, was that

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Speaker 1: the referee, with her two eyes, could not see what

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Speaker 1: was going on nearly as well as I could with

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Speaker 1: my one eye, if you know what I mean, Because

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Speaker 1: supporters are so often one eyed. You know I'm going there,

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Speaker 1: and I found myself. Bear in mind, when you're watching

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old girls playing netball. The people who are

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Speaker 1: running up and down beside the court, the referees are generally,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, aged somewhere between fourteen and seventeen, usually

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Speaker 1: just pretty young kids themselves. And I hurt myself saying,

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Speaker 1: come on, rev Or, are you serious? Are you going

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Speaker 1: to like? I started giving some coaching tips to the

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Speaker 1: referees on how they might do a better job, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe maybe halfway through the game, I

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Speaker 1: heard myself and I realized what I was doing. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it was the fact that a couple of people looked

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Speaker 1: at me because I was perhaps getting a little bit

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Speaker 1: too vocal, and fortunately for me, I guess I held

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Speaker 1: it together. I pulled it back and I just started

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Speaker 1: cheering for my daughter and for the other team when

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Speaker 1: they did something well as well, because frankly, they were

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Speaker 1: playing very very well. Tell me what you've seen as

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Speaker 1: you've observed parents on the sidelines of sporting fields.

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Speaker 2: Well, firstly, I totally agree with you. You can get so

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Speaker 2: into it and then you don't realize what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: I think that's like completely natural, and I think I've

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Speaker 2: also been there, so.

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Speaker 1: In fact, your voice sounds a little horse because you've

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Speaker 1: been cheering.

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Speaker 2: That's right, That's what it is. Yeah, it's not being

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Speaker 2: in Victoria where every cold is going around that it's

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Speaker 2: all right. But yeah, it's so easy to do it,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's so natural as a parent, So

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Speaker 2: you know, I think everyone's being there. But my article

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Speaker 2: was sort of focusing on the positives more than the negatives,

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Speaker 2: which is unusual for me as a critique of all people.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I was just looking at the fact that

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Speaker 2: sports parents get quite a bad rap. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: you hear a lot about things parents can do wrong,

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Speaker 2: like soccer mom, like the Karen of the parents that's

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Speaker 2: out there and knows best, to the referee, to the coach,

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Speaker 2: to other kids, their kids, like you know, they've you know,

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Speaker 2: all their dreams that were never fulfilled are being pushed

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Speaker 2: on to everybody else. But my article is sort of

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Speaker 2: just looking at how it's not really the case for

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Speaker 2: the majority I think out there, and that really sports

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Speaker 2: parents are pretty good and they're pretty dedicated as well.

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Speaker 1: So I want to talk about those good dedicated parents shortly,

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Speaker 1: but we can't have a conversation like this without talk

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Speaker 1: talking about the elephant in the room, the fact that

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Speaker 1: there are so many parents who do those things that

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Speaker 1: you've just described as an observer rather than a psychologist,

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Speaker 1: as somebody who is paid to take note of what's

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Speaker 1: going on. What do you think is going on in

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Speaker 1: terms of this whole pushing things onto the kids? Where

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Speaker 1: do you think that comes from? What have you observed?

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Speaker 1: Maybe even with your own kids, maybe you've experienced it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think really just want your child to do

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Speaker 2: the best, and I think most of the time it

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Speaker 2: comes from a good place. You know, maybe when you

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Speaker 2: were younger, you could have tried harder in a particular element,

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Speaker 2: and you have that regret, so you don't want your

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Speaker 2: child to go, you know, the same way. But other

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Speaker 2: times I think maybe there's people that are definitely super

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Speaker 2: competitive and that also comes through infiltrates into their children

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: That's right, I'm competitives, so my kid better, Dan will

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Speaker 1: be Yeah, that's right. So I want to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit provocative here and challenge you. And in some

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Speaker 1: ways this is unfair because you're not necessarily saying these things,

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Speaker 1: but I want to bounce the idea off you and

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Speaker 1: and get your take on it. Why do you think that?

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Speaker 1: So many parents say, I just want my kids to

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Speaker 1: do their best? Like, why is doing your best so

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Speaker 1: important on the soccer field or the cricket field, or

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Speaker 1: the netball field or the whatever whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: the kids are playing this weekend? Why is doing your

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Speaker 1: best so important?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think for some people maybe doing your best

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Speaker 2: is winning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, winning matters even more sometimes than doing your best, Right, that's.

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Speaker 2: It, because you know, if you're trying your best but

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Speaker 2: you're still lack suck. So for some parents it's probably

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Speaker 2: not going to be enough, but I think it's probably

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Speaker 2: really personal. But you know, I think you want to

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Speaker 2: see your child succeed as well, like you want their

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Speaker 2: team to win, like you don't want them coming off

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Speaker 2: like my daughter plays a netball too team yeah not

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Speaker 2: really good anyway, terrible. I don't know and listens to this,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I hate you too.

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Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people that listen to this.

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Speaker 1: I'm just just letting you know, well, sorry you do try.

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Speaker 2: But you know what, they like always have a lot

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Speaker 2: of fun, Like my daughter comes off smiling all the time.

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Speaker 2: The fact that I think the other week it was

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Speaker 2: like twenty to zero. Wow, yes it wasn't great. But

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Speaker 2: they're also like nine and under, so you know they're

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Speaker 2: still just learning. But no one there is like getting

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Speaker 2: upset with their kid for their team, you know, only

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Speaker 2: having zero, and the other team that's getting twenty as

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Speaker 2: well aren't like, you know, like super pumped and rubbing

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Speaker 2: it in either. So I don't know if I've really

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Speaker 2: answered your question there or not.

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Speaker 1: Wells here's my I guess the back end of my

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Speaker 1: provocation because I've thought about this a lot. I remember

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Speaker 1: some years ago one of my kids got a report card,

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Speaker 1: and the report card was pretty good. But I don't

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Speaker 1: really look at our kids' reports, and it's because of

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Speaker 1: this daughder that I don't. But as I went through,

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Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I don't really mind what

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Speaker 1: grade you get. What I care about is that you're

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Speaker 1: trying hard, that you're getting recognized for your effort. And

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Speaker 1: we got to one of her subjects and she got

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Speaker 1: a SEE for effort, and so I pulled her up

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Speaker 1: on it and I said, what's the deal with this.

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Speaker 1: You're not doing your best here? Obviously the teacher's saying

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Speaker 1: you only got a see for effort. She burst into

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Speaker 1: tears and she said, Daddy, I failed trying. I tried

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Speaker 1: so hard that I failed trying. And I just thought, Hm,

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Speaker 1: Since then, I've thought about this idea. I want my

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Speaker 1: kids to fulfill their potential. I want them to be

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Speaker 1: their best, do their best. And I've kind of shifted,

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Speaker 1: well I haven't kind of, I've clearly shifted. I don't

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Speaker 1: care if they do their best. I just want them

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Speaker 1: to love it. I just want them to develop their competence,

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Speaker 1: to develop relationships, and to come off that field or

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Speaker 1: that court or whatever. It is that they're doing and go,

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Speaker 1: ah jee, I'm so glad. I can't wait for next week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. I want them to love it. And it

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Speaker 1: seems like when we have these parents behaving badly on

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Speaker 1: the sideline stories, it strikes me that they're not going

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Speaker 1: to it if we keep that up, because the constant coaching,

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Speaker 1: the constant berating, the constant derogation of the referee or

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Speaker 1: the coach, all that does is make the kids feel

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Speaker 1: like they can't do a good enough job, they're unworthy.

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Speaker 1: It's no fun when you're getting told that you're not

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Speaker 1: good enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, when I was looking into this, I remember

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Speaker 2: reading some comments from kids on another story from years ago,

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Speaker 2: and one person said, my favorite thing about sport was

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Speaker 2: when it was time to go home, and that was

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Speaker 2: based purely on like, yeah, that sort of behavior. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's you know, definitely can come from parents,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, it can come with from coaches and that

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Speaker 2: sort of thing too. And I think for girls especially,

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Speaker 2: you know, obviously being parents of girls, both of us,

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Speaker 2: it's in sports they drop out, like the rate is

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Speaker 2: pretty high. And for me, like I think I probably

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Speaker 2: was one of them, like about year nine, for myself.

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Speaker 2: So I want my girls to keep going and doing

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Speaker 2: it all ugh, you know, for as long as they

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Speaker 2: possibly can. So enjoyment, you know, is definitely a priority,

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Speaker 2: because there's all those other skills that build along the

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Speaker 2: way with sports that have nothing to do with sports,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I think they're probably the most important

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Speaker 2: mines in the end.

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Speaker 1: We're having that wrestler right now, Shona. We've watched each

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Speaker 1: of our children around you said grade nine, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: it happen around grade seven, grade eight, and statistically we

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Speaker 1: see that it's just a cliff kids participating in organized sports,

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Speaker 1: especially girls, literally just stops from around about that age

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Speaker 1: of thirteen fourteen. That there are body image issues, there's

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Speaker 1: obviously hormonal stuff, there are periods, there's the fact that

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Speaker 1: people are watching them. Sometimes the clothing that girls are

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Speaker 1: expected to wear makes them very, very uncomfortable. But there's

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Speaker 1: also just that feeling of competence. So one of my

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Speaker 1: kids loves acrobatics, and for the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: she has last year or so, she's been in heaven.

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Speaker 1: But at the moment, as she's getting older and her

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Speaker 1: body's changing, her upper body strength, which is so important

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Speaker 1: for acrobatics is well, it's just not there like it

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Speaker 1: used to be. As what he's shifting, and as her

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Speaker 1: confidence falls, her desire to participate is dropping. And what

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Speaker 1: we're finding is those two things, the ability to get

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Speaker 1: better at something and the ability to have good relationships

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Speaker 1: while you're doing it. They're at the core of it.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the good stuff that you've observed. And

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Speaker 1: this is what I did love about your article. Your

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Speaker 1: article was actually an ode to I felt like it

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Speaker 1: was kind of fitting. It came out a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks after the Matilda's and the World Cup of Soccer,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's talking about how great these kids are, and

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Speaker 1: it felt to me like it was an ode to

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Speaker 1: the parents. An ode to the parents who are waking

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Speaker 1: up at four point thirty in the morning to get

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Speaker 1: their kids to squad training or taking their kids down

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Speaker 1: to dance or down to nippers at the beach or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, at crazy hours, multiple days a week,

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Speaker 1: the enormous sacrifice of parents. Tell me about what you

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Speaker 1: observed and how you wrote it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I sort of just looked into the research

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Speaker 2: to start off with, and there was a bit out

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Speaker 2: there about the sheer amount of hours that parents devote

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Speaker 2: to sports, just specifically, that's aside from everything else that

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Speaker 2: or anything else that your child does, you know, school

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Speaker 2: related or any other extracurricular activity is and I think

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Speaker 2: from memory it was something like eight hundred and something

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Speaker 2: a year per child. So depending on how many you

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Speaker 2: have and then how many sports they have, obviously there's

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Speaker 2: it's a lot. I'm not a mass person, but it's

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Speaker 2: a lot of hours, you know, Like, you know, we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of things to do as parents, and

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Speaker 2: you know self care is important too, but from training

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Speaker 2: to competitions to camps, everything else that is involved with

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Speaker 2: sports these days social events as well. Like it's it's

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Speaker 2: a lot of hours. Then that's just taking them there.

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Speaker 1: So this is what this is what you said, and

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Speaker 1: I'll quote you directly to Yeah, Australian parents each spend

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Speaker 1: roughly eight hundred and forty eight hours annually. Yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 1: Eight hundred and forty eight hours. That's enormous. It's a

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Speaker 1: lot one point zero eight billion hours across Australia spent annually.

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Speaker 1: Is parents support their kids involvement in sports and the

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Speaker 1: other figure that struck me, especially in this time of

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Speaker 1: high inflation and financial challenge you said, darted from this

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Speaker 1: rounds Sports Commissions os PLAY survey shows are families average

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Speaker 1: spend last year on sports for children aged fourteen and

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Speaker 1: under was a touch under twelve hundred dollars per child.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, and that's obviously any like you've raised

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Speaker 2: that issue. I came across a few pieces as well

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Speaker 2: where a lot of parents are choosing now to either

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Speaker 2: pull their children out of sport or reduce the amount

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Speaker 2: of sport that they're doing because of just the cost

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Speaker 2: of living as well, which is like it's a whole

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Speaker 2: other issue. But you know a lot of them have

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Speaker 2: said they know how important that is for their kids

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Speaker 2: and that they want them to stay in sport as well.

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Speaker 2: So it's definitely something that's valued, you know, and that's

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Speaker 2: shown through time, shown through money, and it's shown through

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Speaker 2: effort as well, like volunteering that you know, the majority

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Speaker 2: of us do, whether we want to or not, in

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Speaker 2: our kid's sport as well, when I.

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Speaker 1: Think of a life well lived, the characteristics or attributes

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Speaker 1: of those who live great lives, so much of what

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Speaker 1: children's sport offers satisfies those things. So there's the skill

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Speaker 1: building and the competence. There's the relationships and the community building,

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Speaker 1: the sense of being a part of something bigger than yourself.

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Speaker 1: There's the purpose, there's the motivational aspects. There's being. For many,

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Speaker 1: if not all, of the sports, certainly for many of them,

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Speaker 1: there's being outside. There's being in nature, the handi coordination,

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Speaker 1: the movement sports and physical activity. When I hear you

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Speaker 1: say what you've just said, it makes me get very

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Speaker 1: very frustrated that we have a Victorian government that's just

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Speaker 1: blown close to four hundred million dollars to not have

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Speaker 1: the Commonwealth Games. And I think about that four hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars and imagine it being infused into children's and

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Speaker 1: youth sports across this country, and I'm going to be honest,

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Speaker 1: it makes me pretty damn angry that we have governments

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Speaker 1: that are so so wasteful with our money. When I

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Speaker 1: look at the world being benefits, we're dealing with a

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Speaker 1: mental health crisis literally when it comes to our young people. Statistically,

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Speaker 1: we've never had so many young people who are struggling

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Speaker 1: with so many mental health challenges. And this is an

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Speaker 1: undeniable lever that we can pull to satisfy and support

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Speaker 1: mental health needs and yet the government's not doing it.

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Speaker 1: It's an infuriating, infuriating conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm Victorians, and I'm also from the regions where

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Speaker 2: all these things are supposed to take place, so you know,

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Speaker 2: for us. There's an interesting comment from someone from the

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Speaker 2: commerce head of Commerce Ballarat yesterday. I'm from Ballarat and

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Speaker 2: he was just really angry about the lack of communication

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Speaker 2: around that and what an issue that was. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: basically the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It was just a wasted opportunity.

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Speaker 2: It could have totally worked, but you know, it was

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Speaker 2: just not communicated well and coordinated well.

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Speaker 1: And the downstream effects in terms of the inspiration that

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Speaker 1: kids can take from seeing the games, the money that

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Speaker 1: could have been invested into children's sports, and children's mental

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Speaker 1: health benefiting as a result, it just it's really enraging.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the good news. I want to

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Speaker 1: quote you again one more time. This is the last

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Speaker 1: time I'm going to do it to you, but I

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Speaker 1: just I love how you said this because it's so

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Speaker 1: real and every parent has been in this kind of

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Speaker 1: situation you said. For me. This was highlighted at a

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Speaker 1: recent weekend long swimming competition that my daughter attended. Families

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Speaker 1: had traveled from across Victoria to a regional town and

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Speaker 1: crammed into a space nowhere near large enough to accommodate

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Speaker 1: the crowd. It was hot and stuffy, with chlorine thick

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Speaker 1: in the air, yet hardly anyone complained. Instead, parents helped

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Speaker 1: out in any way they could. One grabbed a camera

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Speaker 1: and took photos, another took a clipboard and hearded swimmers

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Speaker 1: to the marshaling checkpoint, while another checked in with everyone,

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Speaker 1: offering coffees and snacks. As the races were conducted, parents

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Speaker 1: cheered on not only their own kids, but all the kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it was.

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Speaker 2: It was really good to see as much as as

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Speaker 2: hot and stuffy as it was, because it really was.

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Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, it was just really good to see.

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Speaker 2: And like that was the moment where I was like,

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Speaker 2: I need to write about this because you know, here

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Speaker 2: you've got like parents from all over Victoria there to

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Speaker 2: support their kids and their kids teammates and it's quite

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Speaker 2: individual sports swimming as well, so it could be quite

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Speaker 2: easy to get insular with it. But it was the opposite,

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Speaker 2: like the parents were just yet up there offering to

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Speaker 2: do something in any way they could whether you've been

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Speaker 2: a member of the club long, whether you're an official

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Speaker 2: person on a committee or not, or whether you just

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Speaker 2: saw someone it needed help with something. People worked just

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Speaker 2: volunteering to do that, and you know it was just

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Speaker 2: to help this event that all of their kids were

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Speaker 2: a part of run as best as it could and

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Speaker 2: for them to have a good time.

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Speaker 1: His told parents who are doing such a great job.

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Speaker 1: And to you, Shanna, thanks for writing such a positive

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Speaker 1: and uplifting article about the great work the parents are

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Speaker 1: doing and supporting their kids for their mental health, their

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Speaker 1: physical health and so on. Great to talk to you again.

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Speaker 1: Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: That's good.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Shona Henley is a freelance writer for the ABC,

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Speaker 1: for the Fairfax Press and pretty much everyone else as well,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote a fabulous, fabulous article just recently all

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Speaker 1: about sports parents, the good and the bad, well actually

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Speaker 1: only about the three percent who are bad. The Happy

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Speaker 1: Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rowlin from Ridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig for to our executive producer. If you're heading up

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Speaker 1: with the kids in the next few days or over

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Speaker 1: the weekend so that they can get involved with sports,

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Speaker 1: thanks for what you're doing. Keep being awesome and enjoy

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Speaker 1: that time on the sidelines. So I hope that kids

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Speaker 1: love the sport. If you'd like more information about making

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Speaker 1: you family happy, visit happy families dot com.

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Speaker 2: Do you