WEBVTT - WRITER AND STORY CONTRIBUTOR OF HEARTBREAK HIGH 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:01.720 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.360 TV Reload the podcast last week airline. 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:05.720 Welcome back to TV Reload. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:08.720 My name's Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast I go 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.080 behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.760 episode you will get a front row seat with content 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.520 makers like executive producers, writers, editors, and casting agents, plus 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.320 the talent that we see on our screens. TV Reload 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.400 reloads the shows that you were currently watching and gives 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.720 you a better insight into our television industry and our 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.800 streaming services today. On the podcast, I have Thomas Wilson White, 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.280 who was one of the writers on the latest incarnation 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:37.120 of Heartbreak High, which has. 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:38.800 Been a huge hit for Netflix. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.479 Tom is actually a family friend of mine and has 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.199 always been an incredibly smart intelligence storyteller. The fact that 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.960 he's been able to demonstrate his talents and be a 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.640 part of a hit like Heartbreak High is a step 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.440 in the right direction for young writers in this country. 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.520 Heartbreak High was a huge part of my early introduction 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.840 into TV and also my passion for television. The series 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.160 broke round in the nineties, and what a joy it 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:04.760 has been to see it brought. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.480 Back for a brand new generation. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.560 The characters in this show are complicated, funny, and reflective 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.120 of real teenagers in Australian schools. If you haven't watched 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.360 the series, I'm super duper jealous because I would love 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.120 to go back and watch it all over again for 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.560 the first time. We will talk about the process in 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.400 the writer's room, where Tom's inspiration comes from, why telling 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.680 stories of queer people is so important, and we will 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.640 get an update on series two. However, let's get started 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.720 with today's guest. I'd like to welcome Thomas Wilson White, 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.000 the writer of episode five and story collaborator of Heartbreak High, 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:39.240 to TV Relock. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.600 This is a really big opportunity for me and I 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.080 really want to smash it. I think Heartbreak how in 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.320 It's DNA and like at its soul, is a show 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:55.120 about rebellion, love and passion. It's absolutely been the foundation 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:56.840 of my rioting voice. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.000 This whole series is about this group of teens and 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:00.400 how they connect each other. 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.520 When you hear the words heartbreak, hi, it has a mythology. 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.600 I'm really proud of this show for doing is kind 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.680 of pushing the ideas and notions of what it is 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.800 to be a teenager. I think the answer actually lay 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.040 in the australianness of it. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.160 Hi, don't read. 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.760 You're really advocating for your community essentially. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.560 Hi Tom, great to have you on the podcast. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:29.639 Thank you for having me. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.720 I'm very excited to have you on the show because 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.320 we're talking about Heartbreak High, which I knew through your 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.640 sister that you were writing, and so I was like, Wow, 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.080 that's so amazing. But then to come and watch it, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:43.920 to see it come to fruition and it to be 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.200 a hit, it is a proud, proud friend moment. 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.839 It's actually insane. Like I was saying the other day, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.600 you've got you've got a show that gets released and 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.919 it could be a flop or it could be good. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.800 But then this is like beyond both of those things, 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.400 where there's actually no there's no real way to prepare 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.120 for a hit that catches on this quickly, particularly with 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.720 the demographic it's aimed at. They go rabbit like. It's 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.600 got a fan base that kind of formed within a 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.639 week of its release. So it's been it's been really 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.760 cool and also kind of like crazy. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.120 Isn't it weird that the rest of the world now 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.200 is as protective and passionate about these characters as you 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.120 must have been creating them. It's like an episode of 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:27.800 Buffy where you just saw it a whole lot of 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.680 Buffies out there and now got this Heartbreak High superpower. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.800 Yeah yeah, instead of vampires, they're all like queer, which 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.240 is even better. I guess that's Buffy. Actually, yeah, it 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.480 definitely felt It definitely felt like to break the season 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.680 and to build and create the characters from literally nothing, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.640 like we created them from our lived experience and we 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.520 went if we like we all got hired on Heartbreak High, 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.400 and it was kind of like, what does this look like? 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.840 What is a reboot of the show going to look like? 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.880 And kind of it was like, well, I want to 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:02.520 see this sort of story and I've never seen it 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.200 on Australian TV and I would really passionately advocate for, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.040 you know, the characters that I kind of shaped or pitched, 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.080 and then to see that and you're running off a 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.800 hunch that like people want to see it as well, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.560 and it's not just you, like not having had therapy, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.919 and so it's actually like maybe other people want to 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.280 watch this, and so then it kind of goes out 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.120 into the world and you know, to see the tiktoks 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.680 and the tweets and all of the posts about you know, 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:35.240 particularly the queer characters, has been really validating and pretty amazing. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:37.440 I think you also helped all of your friends and 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.120 family because we've all become a little bit cooler because 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.200 we can say that we know someone who was a creator. 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:44.480 And it was funny. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.000 I was saying to someone in the industry the other day, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:48.760 I was like, oh, I know somebody who worked on it. 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.120 They were like, oh, which actor? And I was like, no, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.080 I know one of the writers that were like what. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.360 They were like, oh my god. And isn't it weird 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.520 that the creative team behind a show like this could 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.960 be just has celebrated these days as the people as 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.680 the actors, you know, because everyone knows how bold the 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.520 choices have been. Everyone knows how much this must have 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:10.680 been scrutinized over. 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.880 Yeah, And I mean it was really risky as well, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.560 Like I think the Netflix were kind of like from 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.040 the day one, it was like, let's take a big 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.400 swing and see if we land it. And you know, 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.039 it was my first TV it was my first professional 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.479 TV gig. You know, I'd written my own things and 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.320 I'd made a film and films, et cetera. But I 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.839 was essentially like completely green and a really big risk 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.560 for them to take. Turning around one day and saying, hey, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.920 we want you to write episode five and I was like, fuck, yeah, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:42.240 I can't swear, can I? 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.880 I was like, I was like, hell, yeah, this is 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.160 mine my heart Radio Australia. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:48.320 Thank you for letting us swear? 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.200 Yes, thank you. Yeah, I kind of I kind of 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.000 threw myself at it. And you know, they yeah, they 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.200 I think power to Netflix. They really had nothing to lose. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.679 They were like, we've just opened in Australia. Let's go ham, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.919 let's see you know, let's create something we can be 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.560 proud of as Aussies for the global stage. And this stuff. 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.800 I mean, it didn't exist, like it didn't exist a 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.919 decade ago, like that very conversation. Like when I was 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.920 starting out, I would never have believed that I would 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:19.920 be able to stay in Australia and make this show 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.080 and make the work I wanted to make. It was 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.640 not an option like we going through film school like 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.719 a decade ago. It was like you leave, you have 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:27.880 to leave, you know. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.080 I've always thought that there was something extraordinarily special about 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.680 your storytelling, even from a young age. Like I think, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:38.480 you know, I might have met you when you were 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.160 seventeen or eighteen, but you were hanging out with your 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:46.160 sister's friends and you could hold the consciousness of everyone 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.159 that was quite a lot older than you, And I 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.920 think that's like, that must be just a talent that's 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.680 a part of you, which you've then been able to 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:55.400 sort of cultivate. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.240 I guess definitely being the youngest sibling and being obsessed 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.320 with your other sibling and like being like always listening 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.560 and being like I want to be like them, and 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.120 sort of like emulating my siblings to the point where 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:08.600 if I think about it for too long, I'm like, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.760 who am I really like? I'm just like just a 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.120 series of things I've stolen off my relatives. But honestly, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.400 it definitely has helped my screenwriting for sure, to be 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.600 to be a part of such a big family and 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.760 a kind of funny, loud, super gay family like it 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.280 kind of It's absolutely been the foundation of my writing voice. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.600 You know, where do you think your passion for TV, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:36.920 film and storytelling came from? 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:37.720 Do you think it was that. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.920 I mean, I've sat in the backyard of your older 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.640 sister Perry's backyard and heard you all as a family 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.800 talking and all of you are creative, and I'm just 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.920 like it was like a writer's room actually. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.800 You know, yes, yeah. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.200 There was never a time where we were having a 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.440 conversation about something that you know, wasn't pop culture mixed 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.240 with something that was happening in the news, you know. 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:00.680 So what do you think for TV? 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.440 Storytelling came from I think we all got it from 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.600 our grandma. She like she ran she opened this regional 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.640 theater in Nara on the south coast of New South 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.760 Wales called the Narrow Players in nineteen fifty one. So 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.440 like we kind of grew up in the theater and 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.520 I think I maybe unconsciously kind of had an ear 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.200 for dialogue because I was always in the theater and 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.920 listening to plays and stuff. And then I think we 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.640 all became it's actually that and like Gilmore Girls, if 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.400 I'm really honest, like we were obsessed with Gilmore Girls 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.760 as a family, and you can absolutely hear that in 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.080 my writing style, Like I think that kind of just 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.960 bred us as this sort of we're all a bit 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.240 loud and not even loud that way We're just a bit, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.840 you know, we just say stuff, we speak up. We 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.040 kind of were very opinionated, and that's in all of 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.720 my work. But I think, particularly with TV and comedy, 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.680 I don't because I really started in drama, so I 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.480 was like drama, drama, drama, and then I moved into 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.440 comedy in the last few years and didn't expect to 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.240 kind of have it be so come so naturally to me, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.480 but it just does. Like, you know, I really love 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.760 writing comedy, you know, and that you know, everything I 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.800 write is about my siblings in one way or another, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.240 and Heartbreak Eye is kind of just like my siblings, 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.720 but they're all school kids, you know. You can kind 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.880 of see parts of all of them in there. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.520 Is there something that you stand for when it comes 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.040 to creating content? You know? 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.840 Is there a signature Tom Wilson. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.360 White theme that you skirt around or people would say, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:31.920 what's your work? 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.040 Absolutely? Like I think that I ran away and wrote 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.160 my did my master's degree on sort of like queer 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.240 storytelling and hopefully the future of it and ways to 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.640 kind of challenge, you know, the broader audience's idea of 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.160 what a queer story looks and feels like. And so 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.520 I think it has been a real passion of mine 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.640 to bake queenness into the stories in a way that 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.200 we're not used to, where it is kind of almost commonplace, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.000 and it's no longer about kind of coming out or 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.880 being a lesbian who dies tragically. It's you know, it's 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.520 actually more about celebrating and honoring queerness and the way 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:09.679 that it changes our points of view, but also just 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.680 the universality of our experiences as humans, you know, and 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.480 hopefully moving it forward into a way. And that's kind 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.160 of I think that's kind of the signature I was 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.560 able to put on Heartbreak Eye from in the writer's 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.280 room was you know, I really wanted queer characters who 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.720 broke out of the sort of tropes that we've been given, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.240 you know, historically, particularly in TV as well, Like there's 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.880 always like the gay best friend. We all know that stereotype, 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.720 but how do we how do we take you know, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.439 that and kind of subvert it. And I think that's 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.680 kind of why the Darren and Cash storyline was sprung 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.679 from that. It is like Darren is almost that and 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.600 Cash is the antithesis of that, and what challenges every 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.640 single thing about themselves that they know. That's kind of 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.720 where it came from and why I'm so excited to 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.199 tell stories like that in Australia because I still think, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.480 you know, we are kind of a little bit behind 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.080 in our stories some way we craft them. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.079 What was your relationship like with Heartbreak? High? 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.400 Because the original series was groundbreaking for its time. I 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.800 remember being in high school when it was on television. 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:13.960 Everyone would run home and watch it. I grew up 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.480 in Doncaster and Templestow where it was a very Italian 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.600 Greek suburb. So I just remember at school they wouldn't 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.640 have said it this many words because they were school kids, right, 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.040 but they were like, oh, we're on television, you know, 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.640 because we hadn't seen that much cultural diversity in a 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.560 series before. But so it had the landscape, it had 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.199 the foundation I think for us to be bolder with that, 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.439 you know, with that concept. But yeah, what was your 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.560 relationship with Heartbreak? That's my original question. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.760 No, I mean, it's really interesting though, everything you say, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.920 because it is I think we pulled. We looked at 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.760 the original and we were like, so what was it 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.000 doing in its era? And it was it was groundbreaking 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.720 and it was it was diverse, in a way that 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.280 nineties Australia was diverse and for its time was really 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.800 covering a lot of things, a lot of subject matter 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.920 that Australian TV just wasn't covering. So in updating it, 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.439 you go, okay, well, what's the twenty twenty two version 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.160 of those themes? You know? And it's you know, there's 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.199 it's like body autonomy and gender and sexuality and race 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.080 and all of these big things where we're like, so 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.080 that's what we're going to that's what we're going to tackle. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.400 But my connection to it was through Perry, through my 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.920 big sister, so knowing I knew of it, but I 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.920 totally missed it. Like I think I was way too 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.080 young to have watched it, But I think that it's 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.200 always had when you hear the words heartbreak Kyi, it 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.880 has a mythology to it. It's kind of part of 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.480 our culture. So when they when I got the call 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.880 being like, hey, do you want an interview for this 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.280 show or like they want you to interview for the 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.760 show Heartbreak High, I was like, oh my god, that's 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.840 going to be a hit. Like I remember as soon 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:55.720 as I heard the words, I was like a rebit 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.480 of that right now, in this day and age is 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.120 going to be if it's done right. I was like, 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.920 that is going to go off because we don't have 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:04.960 we don't have an equivalent in Australia right now, a 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.440 show that is really tackling what it is to be 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.640 a young adult right now in Australia. So yeah, that 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.839 was my connection. I've never actually watched any of it, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.120 but when I did watch all of it before my interview, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.480 I went on this deep dive and watched, you know, 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.360 twenty five episodes. I was like, okay, cool, you know, 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:22.199 I get it. 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.120 I spoke to Perry, your sister for people listening to this, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.360 and we're talking about something to do with work. I 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:28.880 think she sent me a book and I said thank you, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.040 and she told me or work on the show. And 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.720 then I went back and watched. I think I watched 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.160 season one and season two and then the last season 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.040 of it, just because I wanted to refresh. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.600 I was like, I just want to refresh and I 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:40.559 want to remember. 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.880 It and it was still groundbreaking, and I thought to myself, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:45.480 why do you you know? And I thought, for you, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.320 a good question is why do you think we didn't 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.560 see more of this or why do you think it's 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.959 taken so long to continue what Heartbreak High was doing 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:55.480 almost two decades ago. 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.600 It's an interesting question. Like I think I also think 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.920 young adult can be you know, the big wigs can 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.040 kind of you know, be quite patronizing to young adult 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.160 content and be like yeah, whatever, But actually, like young 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.040 adult is like culture defining, like as a genre. You know, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.959 I think back to you know, Gossip Girl, the OC, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.120 like the big ones that were like smack bang in 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.840 my high school journey, and they really defined who I 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.520 was and how I kind of identified and found myself. 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:26.560 But it can also kind of be like, yeah, but 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.880 that's just like, you know, that's just what the kids 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.800 are watching. So I think I often feel like ya 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.520 as a genre is where a lot of really exciting 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.880 stuff is actually happening, and there's some really exciting dialogues 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.160 about who we are as people and growing up and 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.600 big political topical stuff. But maybe it's just not seen 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.680 that way. But I brought the broader audience perhaps, But 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.680 it is changing. I think. You know, then you activate 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.840 teenagers with social media, and the thing that changes is 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.200 that now it's so much easier to see the impact 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.680 these shows have because you know, Euphoria is if there's 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.080 a season of Euphoria out, it's literally everywhere you can't 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:09.160 escape it. And the cult status of shows like that 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.200 in the fan bases, you know, it's actually kind of 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.880 terrifying how many people watch that stuff. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:17.840 That show was in that show, you would have had 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.840 to watch some of that before making this, and you 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.560 would be like, oh, I'm so inspired by this, but 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.040 you don't want to mimic that, Like do you know 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.480 what I mean? Like you could easily try and remake 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.840 that in a way where that's not that it's got 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.080 an Australian flavor to it. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.000 And also, what I thought. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.600 Was more interesting is I can't remember a time where 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.680 the actors felt like they were actually playing their age. 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.360 You know, for so long we were watching the scott 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:46.000 Wolfs of the world playing Party of five or even 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:47.480 back to nine to two to zero. But then even 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.640 Gossip Girl, a lot of these shows have these actors 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.880 that are too old to be playing these roles or 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.360 selling it well enough. And this show really feels like 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.920 it's snapshot of real people of the same age. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.280 Yeah, I agree. I think the firstly, the casting is 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.760 like sublime, and you know, as they were casting these roles. 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.080 I remember being like, well, this is so exciting, Like 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.040 it really is the cast of our dreams that we 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:20.880 really wanted, real people, and they're so talented and really wonderful. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:21.600 Yeah. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.480 I definitely feel like we all watched Euphoria, and we 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.600 were watching you know, sex Education and all of like 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.640 the big high school shows that are out right now, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.920 and then going where's a space that exists beyond all 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.640 of those shows that we can occupy? And I think 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.720 I think the answer actually lay in the australianness of it, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.040 like it, you know, we have a really really specific 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.400 sense of humor and sensibility here that has often been 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.680 kind of cringey, you know, like on TV. And we 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.440 were like, how do we embrace it? Because we are 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.240 very funny and very self effacing, and you know, we 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.400 kind of do just take the Pierce a lot. But 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.919 we're also you know, uniquely positioned over here in all 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:07.720 these other weird ways that I think come out in 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.760 the show. You know that, And that's kind of what 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.679 I think people are kind of picking up is that 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.600 it's so weirdly Australian, like we are kind of very 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.080 left of center over here, so I think that was 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.560 like the nice I think that's the nice place that 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.639 the show's fine found is kind of a space beyond 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:28.639 euphoria and beyond sex ed and like somewhere else that 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.840 I think they all speak to each other. For sure. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.879 There is a danger of being too woke or turning 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.280 off your audience by ticking too many boxes, which we 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.360 saw with and Just Like That, which was the reboot 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:42.280 of Sex and the City. 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.120 What do you think about that? 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.560 You know, what do you think the failure in and 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.199 Just Like That had with people turning off because it 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.160 was too woe where you all succeeded. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.040 I have so many feelings about this topic because I 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.439 felt very passionate about this in the room when we 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.200 were writing the show, and I was also the queer 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.320 consultant on the show, so I read all the scripts 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.600 with the proviso that I would go through and read 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.399 any time a queer character spoke or you know, and 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.640 offer suggestions and kind of you know, basically just kind 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.080 of use my own internal compass to go no, I 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.040 would never say that and or like, you know, and 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.440 it didn't happen that much. The writers are fantastic, They're 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.359 all incredible, but We were really conscious going through this series, 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.560 like people are going to expect this to be so 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.760 woke that it's unwatchable. You know, people are going to 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.200 expect every character to open their mouth and be like, well, 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.840 I identify as blah blah blah and blah. So actually 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.520 you're canceled, like that is what everyone's wanting, expecting Hartbrekhi 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.000 to be. So we were kind of like, let's make 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:50.560 them flawed, and let's make them let's embrace their identities 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.479 and their differences, but let's not sent a story around it, 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.080 and let's go for you know, universality and the storytellings 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.520 and the themes. And I think it was actually just 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.000 about looking at it and going, we're not going to 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.600 pat ourselves on the back because we have this incredibly 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.560 diverse cast and this you know cast of people that 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.920 are all intersectional in their identities. We're not going to 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.359 signpost it so that you know that we know and 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.959 that you know we've all read like fifty million articles 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.600 about this, where like we're just going to dig into 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.080 the guts of these characters and put up something it 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.280 feels real, and I think, you know, with something like 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.680