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Speaker 1: Good morning, Happy Tuesday, and welcome to the Daily Odds.

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Speaker 1: I am Zara Sidler, joined by co founder of The

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Speaker 1: Daily Os Sam Platowski. Talk to me about our Tuesday

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Speaker 1: news rundown, sam Zara.

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Speaker 2: It is freezing cold, but I've got one copy in

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Speaker 2: me and I'm ready to bring you the news. We're

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Speaker 2: going to take you through the COVID updates because we

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Speaker 2: thought we'd try something different today. Then we're going to

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Speaker 2: chat to you about New South Wales corruption, some easing

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Speaker 2: of restrictions in the UK, and then we're going to

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Speaker 2: go a little bit deeper into this TikTok dude who's

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Speaker 2: been leaking New South Wales's COVID numbers, but actually explore

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Speaker 2: it from a media perspective.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, New South Wales recorded ninety eight locally acquired cases

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Speaker 1: of COVID. Tragically, there was also a death recorded later

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Speaker 1: in the day of the mother of the two removalists

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Speaker 1: who tested positive. We know that the woman had COVID,

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Speaker 1: but the actual cause of death has not yet been confirmed.

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Speaker 1: Over in Victoria, here's what Dan Andrews had to say

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Speaker 1: about the lockdown ending tonight.

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Speaker 3: We will not be ready to lift this lockdown at

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Speaker 3: midnight tomorrow night.

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Speaker 1: We're not in a position this morning and that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm acknowledging that it is frustrating. South Australia also recorded

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Speaker 1: to locally acquired cases yesterday and there were new restrictions announced.

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Speaker 1: If you want to get across what Stage four restrictions

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Speaker 1: look like in South Australia, head to the government's website

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Speaker 1: and they've got a full list.

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Speaker 4: They're ready to go.

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Speaker 2: Former New South Wales government ministers Eddie Obeid and Ian McDonald,

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Speaker 2: as well as Obed's son Moses, were found guilty yesterday

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Speaker 2: of conspiracy to willfully commit misconduct in public office over

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Speaker 2: the allocation of coal licenses in the Upper Hunter back

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight. Now, this is a long

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Speaker 2: running saga in New South Wales politics that is all

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Speaker 2: about corruption in the Labor Party. About fifteen years ago now,

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Speaker 2: the Obeds were accused of conspiring with McDonald, who was

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Speaker 2: then the Minister for Primary Industries and Minister for Mineral Resources,

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Speaker 2: to grant a coal exploration license over the Obed's family farm.

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Speaker 1: If this story is something that interests you, Kate mcclemont

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Speaker 1: from the Sidney Morning Herald and the Age has been

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Speaker 1: very much the leading force into this investigation in terms

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Speaker 1: of media coverage, so check out some of her work.

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Speaker 1: She's been following it for years and was the first

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Speaker 1: person to uncover this story. Over in the UK, COVID

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Speaker 1: life could not look more different with Freedom Day occurring yesterday.

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Speaker 1: If you are unfamiliar with the term of Freedom Day,

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Speaker 1: it was the day that British Prime Minister Boris Johnson

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Speaker 1: announced that all social distancing restrictions would be lifted, so

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Speaker 1: that means that face masks are no longer required to

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Speaker 1: be worn, there's no limits on how many people can

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Speaker 1: meet or attend events, nightclubs can reopen, and the one

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Speaker 1: meter plus guidance was removed. This all happened on the

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Speaker 1: day where there was more than forty eight thousand new

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Speaker 1: cases of COVID nineteen in the UK and Boris Johnson

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Speaker 1: actually went into self isolation after coming into contact with

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Speaker 1: a positive case.

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Speaker 4: That is the current health minister.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. A woman has completed the third

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Speaker 2: seven week training course to become a US Naval Special

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Speaker 2: Warfare Combatant craft crewman for the first time, her commander said,

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Speaker 2: becoming the first female to graduate from a Naval special

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Speaker 2: warfare training pipeline is an extraordinary accomplishment and we are

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Speaker 2: incredibly proud of our teammate.

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Speaker 1: The last couple of nights, Sam and I have had

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Speaker 1: the very strange experience of not finding out the COVID

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Speaker 1: numbers from Premier Gladysbury Jicklian or from her government, but

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Speaker 1: instead finding them out from a random TikTok comedian. And

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Speaker 1: there was lots of conjecture as to what was happening

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Speaker 1: over those four nights when there was a TikTok account

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Speaker 1: releasing the correct and accurate numbers well in advance of

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Speaker 1: the Premier announcing them. Of course, there were lots of

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Speaker 1: ideas about how he was getting numbers, the most prominent

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Speaker 1: of which was that the federal COVID app was somehow

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Speaker 1: releasing the numbers ahead of time. That was debunked. It

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Speaker 1: was not the case, even though lots of people believed

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Speaker 1: it to be the case. So what we believe now

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Speaker 1: now is that the TikToker was actually getting the numbers

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Speaker 1: leaked to him by someone in the Department of Health.

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Speaker 4: And a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Weeks ago we spoke to you about what briefing out is,

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Speaker 1: which is the idea that the government briefs out stories

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Speaker 1: and ideas and policies ahead of time, and we explored

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Speaker 1: all those concepts and how it might land. This is

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Speaker 1: an entirely different kettle of fish because according to Gladys

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Speaker 1: Burygiclian and her cabinet, this was not an intentional leak

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of unlike anything we've really seen in

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Speaker 1: Australian political journalism. For those who don't sink hours and

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Speaker 1: hours and hours into TikTok, I admire you, but you

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Speaker 1: might not have heard what these tiktoks sounded like.

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Speaker 4: So here's a bit of a snippet.

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Speaker 3: I know how many cases is going to be tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: No need for an update, Gladys Given that there's thirty

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Speaker 3: infectious cases in the community, plus how contagious the delta

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Speaker 3: strain is. You also have to factor in the circumference

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Speaker 3: of Southwest Sydney plus the amount of households in Fairfield

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Speaker 3: with eleven children, I can conclude there'll be ninety seven

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Speaker 3: cases tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: Stitch this when I'm right.

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Speaker 4: To eight pm.

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Speaker 1: Last night, New South Wales recorded ninety seven cases of

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Speaker 1: community transmission.

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Speaker 2: And the dream run of correct predictions came to an

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Speaker 2: end yesterday. It was actually a topic of conversation at

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Speaker 2: the press conference. Here's what New South Wales Health Minister

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Speaker 2: Brad has had to say when asked about the TikToker

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Speaker 2: in question pick the numbers five days straight. Hasn't picked

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Speaker 2: the numbers today? Have you found the obvious leak within government?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 5: Can I just say it was a disappointment about on

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Speaker 5: something as serious as our messaging into the community in

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Speaker 5: a one on one hundred year pandemic that clearly someone

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Speaker 5: somewhere in the system was feeling the need to disclose

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Speaker 5: those figures to somebody who was not an appropriate person

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Speaker 5: to be making commentary about it. I'm coming to you

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Speaker 5: list just wait and so Health looked at the issues

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Speaker 5: around that. I saw someone saying in the social for

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Speaker 5: me if there was a sting, though there wasn't. It

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Speaker 5: was just looking at what the issues were and making

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Speaker 5: sure that the system was such that that information could

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Speaker 5: be kept to the appropriate time, whether messaging.

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Speaker 2: So let's zoom out a little bit. I think it's

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Speaker 2: a great opportunity to talk about leaks in the same

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Speaker 2: way as Zara said that we talked about briefing out

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago. So, according to a paper

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Speaker 2: called the Ethics of Leaks from the mccooler Center for

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Speaker 2: Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University in the US, there's

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Speaker 2: two main different types of leaks, a good leak and

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Speaker 2: a bad leak. A good leak is one where the

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Speaker 2: disclosure of information that expands our public understanding is an

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Speaker 2: issue of public interest, and it's one where we wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have known about a misbehaving public official or another matter

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Speaker 2: that as voters we need to know about if not

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Speaker 2: for the leak of information. A bad leak, on the

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Speaker 2: other hand, is one that might harm the public trust

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Speaker 2: in an institution and doesn't aid public understanding of the

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Speaker 2: important public issue. So something that a lot of journalists

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Speaker 2: think about in terms of leaks is whether the leak

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Speaker 2: really adds to the public discourse here. And what I

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Speaker 2: found really interesting about this particular example with mister TikTok

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Speaker 2: is that this was never information that we were never

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Speaker 2: going to find out. Right, it just came to us

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Speaker 2: eight or nine hours earlier than we knew we were

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Speaker 2: going to be told it on the television.

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Speaker 1: But that said, it also is not anything new. The

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Speaker 1: government has been briefing out the numbers to a specific

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Speaker 1: journalist at Channel nine for.

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Speaker 4: The entirety of this outbreak.

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Speaker 1: Every morning, I know the numbers a couple of hours

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Speaker 1: ahead of the press conference, because there is a certain

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Speaker 1: journalist who tweets every morning that he understands the numbers

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Speaker 1: to be x y z and in the vicinity of xyz.

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Speaker 1: He's never provided the specific number like we saw happen

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Speaker 1: in Victoria. But it's certainly the case that the government

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Speaker 1: has been speaking to certain journalists, as we alluded to

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Speaker 1: in the briefing out episode this whole COVID pandemic.

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Speaker 4: So why does this feel so different? Sam?

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that there was this mass outrage

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Speaker 1: around a TikToker announcing numbers a couple of hours ahead

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Speaker 1: of time.

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Speaker 2: So I think there's a few different aspects to it.

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Speaker 2: One is that the information was presented in a comical way,

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Speaker 2: and it was presented as satire even two days ago.

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Speaker 2: It was presented with a sponsored product in the frame,

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Speaker 2: So this took a little bit of the shine off

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Speaker 2: the information that an esteemed journalist, say writing for a

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Speaker 2: public broadcaster, might have when bringing new information that they

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Speaker 2: have been leaked. On the other hand, another key factor

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Speaker 2: is the fact that many traditional journalists and traditional media

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Speaker 2: weren't used to the fact that TikTok was being used

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Speaker 2: to disseminate news information.

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Speaker 4: And I mean the numbers were remarkable.

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Speaker 1: There were videos of this guy getting over a million

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Speaker 1: views in one night, and people were very clearly hungry

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Speaker 1: for the information, and he was getting a huge public response,

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Speaker 1: one that you know, journalists on Twitter who exist in

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Speaker 1: a bubble of sorts might not have ever gotten.

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Speaker 2: But do you think it helped us at all to

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Speaker 2: know the numbers eight or nine hours ahead.

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Speaker 1: I think at another time it might have been useful,

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Speaker 1: But in this current outbreak, the premiere has very clearly

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Speaker 1: identified that the number that she cares about most is

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Speaker 1: the number of infectious people in the community that we

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Speaker 1: need to see that number drop for us to get

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Speaker 1: out of lockdown, and that number was never included in

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Speaker 1: these tiktoks. So there was this widespread fear I felt,

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Speaker 1: I mean even talking to friends that you know, we

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Speaker 1: were seeing these one hundred and ten, one hundred and

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Speaker 1: nine hundred and eight whatever numbers, And yet that vital

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Speaker 1: piece of information that has been clearly characterized by the

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Speaker 1: premiere as the most important number was never included, so

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Speaker 1: we weren't getting the full picture, and I do think

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Speaker 1: that that does a disservice to proper dissemination of information.

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Speaker 2: I think another really interesting aspect that I picked up

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Speaker 2: across social media on the weekend was a sense of

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Speaker 2: was it perhaps times our confidence in New South Wales

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Speaker 2: Health to organize themselves and the thought that there is

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Speaker 2: really sensitive health data and private information that somehow escaping

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Speaker 2: the normal protocols did make us feel a little bit

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Speaker 2: more fragile in our public health system.

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Speaker 1: So if you didn't hear about what happened yesterday, yesterday

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of political journalists in the morning tweeted

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Speaker 1: that the government had provided the incorrect number to the

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Speaker 1: TikToker and that the number that was going to be

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Speaker 1: reflected in the eleven am press conference was going to

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Speaker 1: be different. So this was just paradoxical in and of

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Speaker 1: itself because here were political journalists who had obviously gotten

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Speaker 1: the lead ahead of time, reporting on another leaking situation.

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Speaker 4: So it's just this like meta narrative.

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Speaker 2: A leak on the leak, and.

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Speaker 1: There seemed to be a community sentiment around the fact

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Speaker 1: that it was seemingly quite a coordinated mission to a

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Speaker 1: provide the wrong numbers to said TikToker, but b then

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Speaker 1: provide that information to a handful of political journalists for

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Speaker 1: them to report ahead of time. So quite a few

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Speaker 1: people in my orbit at least, were saying, well, shouldn't

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Speaker 1: we be focusing these resources on actually dealing with the

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Speaker 1: situation at hand, which is this outbreak that isn't going away.

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Speaker 2: What's clear across this entire conversation is that media is

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Speaker 2: changing and a platform like TikTok can quickly become a

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Speaker 2: key source of news. We are really proud to be

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Speaker 2: on the forefront of all of those changes and bringing

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Speaker 2: you news on Instagram, email and podcast in what we

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Speaker 2: think is a pretty unique way. If you want to

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Speaker 2: get around us, you can follow us on Instagram at

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Speaker 2: the Daily Os. It's where over one hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: thousand Australians get their news throughout the day. We are

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Speaker 2: there right after every press conference and we can't wait

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Speaker 2: to see there