1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:00,280 Speaker 1: You know. 2 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 2: The menopause club is a big one around the globe. 3 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 2: It'll impact one point two billion women by twenty thirty. 4 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: And while our experiences are as unique as we all are, 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: research suggests our culture and even where we live may 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: affect our experiences. In societies where age is more revered, 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: menopausal symptoms are far less bothersome, whereas where older is 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: equated with old age, symptoms can be more devastating. In Australia, 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: menopause can be seen as a time to dread and 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: to navigate in silence. It's fair to say we're lagging 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: behind other countries. However, the recent Senate Inquiry into menopause 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: broke new ground in shining the spotlight on our current 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: state of play. It's a good starting marker in determining 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 2: the future roadmap in care. The Greens Party secured support 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: to establish the inquiry to better understand the health and 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: economic impacts of menopause. It was instigated by now leaders 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: Senator Larissa Waters, a trailblazer in her own right. 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 3: Menopause, It's coming for you no matter what. Let's build 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: a village of support. 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: Why is it so damn hot in here? 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: Menopause is so hot right now. 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: I think I'm finally in menopause. 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 3: Women just want to feel hurt. Rage Against the Menopause. Well, 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 3: my next. 25 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: Guest I'm extremely excited about it is Green's leader, Senator 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: Larissa Waters. Welcome to Rage Against the Menopause. 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: be here. 29 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: You reached out to me. I was on the project 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: last year. Your people reached out to me and said, hey, 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: Larissa would love to be on the podcast, and I 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 2: thought I would love to have you some So thrilled 33 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: that you've given me time. And you were just saying 34 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: before we hit record that you were in Canberra till 35 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: what time. 36 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: Oh we left the chamber at about seven pm Canberra time, 37 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: and I had to get home to Brisbane to my 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: lovely children, who are like body's kids, lovely and extraordinarily demanding. 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing the juggle that many of us do. 40 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: That's the thing, isn't it. 41 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: It's just we're career women, but we're also mums, and 42 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: we're daughters in we're wives and partners. 43 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're very busy and sometimes we're very tired, 44 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: but we try to remain cheerful. 45 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: Were your girls are seven and fifteen. You were saying 46 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: you're up a couple of times through the night. He 47 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: never stops, does it. 48 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: No, a little one was cold because we've had a 49 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: heatwave here in me Angela, Brisbane, where I'm joining you from. 50 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: But of course it's all of a sudden that's gotten 51 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: cold and rainy. 52 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 3: So oh are you kidding? 53 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: Almost like the climate's changing. Who knew, Larissa? 54 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: You are a trailblazer in women's rights and protections and 55 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: this is nothing new that you would start the Senate 56 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: inquiry into menopause because there was an incident in Federal 57 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: Parliament that caused a bit of a stir as we 58 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: talk about your daughters when one was a baby. 59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: Tell us about that. 60 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: Oh, we're going back a little while now, So she 61 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: was this is seven and a half years ago, because 62 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: littlest one is that old now, and I was in office. 63 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: I've been I was elected in twenty ten, so I've 64 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: been in the parliament for quite some time and was 65 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: lucky enough to have a second child, and so I 66 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: did so whilst trying to juggle my work duties. And 67 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: like any mum, you do your best to try to 68 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: make sure you can breastfeed above and sometimes it works, 69 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't. But I was lucky and so Bubba 70 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: was super hungry, and it was a parliamentary sitting day 71 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: and we have parts of the day where you have 72 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: to be in the chamber because you might vote at 73 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: any minute, and it was one of those parts and 74 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: my partner at the time was messaging, soon, she's getting 75 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: really hungry, honey, I'm not shocking up her off my shonger. 76 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: She's gonna scream. So I said, right, we'll bring her in. 77 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: I'll pop her on the boob and get my job done, 78 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: both of them at the same time. And unfortunately, I 79 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: was the first person to do that in federal Parliament, 80 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: which is insane because we've had a federal Parliament for 81 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: more than one hundred and twenty years and it's pretty 82 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: clear that we haven't had enough mums or women generally 83 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: in that parliament. But thankfully we've had quite a few 84 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: other little bubbers in the chamber since then, so it 85 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: feels like slowly parliament's entury. 86 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: It broke the mold. What sort of sort of flack. 87 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: Did you cop for doing that? At the time, I 88 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: know it was like headline news. 89 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really mixed pats. I had a lot 90 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: of support, obviously from my Green's colleagues and from some 91 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: of the nicer folk in the chamber, and that there's 92 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: lots of those. There were a few of the older 93 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: white gentlemen at the time. Thankfully some of those have 94 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: retired now, but there was a few archaic, bordering on paternalistic, 95 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: sexist reactions from some of them that I found deeply inappropriate. 96 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: And then of course there were people on the internet 97 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: that had strong views. And I acknowledge that I'm lucky. 98 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm in a job where I am able to multitask. 99 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: I am able to breastfeed little one and do my 100 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: job at the same time, and I acknowledge not everyone 101 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: can do that. But I think it's important to try 102 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: to break down whatever barriers are in your power to 103 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: try to break down. And I'm really proud that one 104 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: of the things that people stopped me at the shops 105 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: or in the street about is to say, I felt 106 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: really empowered when you did that, and it gave me 107 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: the confidence to feed my little one wherever I was, 108 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: which still gives me shivers. It makes me feel really 109 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: proud that I was able to help other women just 110 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: feel safer to do what they want to do. 111 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, and that's why I'm doing the podcast. 112 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: I see that as part of my legacy to my 113 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: daughter who's fourteen. But that's the thing. If we're sharing 114 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: our lived experiences, what it does is it gives other 115 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 2: women license to feel that they can talk about their 116 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: experience with Perry and menopause personally. Obviously you have instigated 117 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 2: or established consensus support for the Menopause Inquiry, but personally 118 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: for you, is that something that you're tackling at the moment. 119 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: Are you going through perimenopause? Are you menopause? 120 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: Or yeah, look very much so. So I admit to 121 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: shameless self interest in setting up a Senate inquiry into this, 122 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: And again I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where 123 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: I've got the ability to instigate something like that. And 124 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: the Senate inquiry is where the whole of the Chamber 125 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: or you know, selected representatives decide being going to look 126 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: at a topic and then decide to gather evidence from 127 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: members of the public and from experts, and then write 128 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: a report that distills all of that and makes suggestions 129 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: to government on what should be done. And the reason 130 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: I thought to do. It was I looked around as 131 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: I was feeling my own symptoms, and I'll come to 132 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: those in a moment. But I looked around and I 133 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: realized there's actually not any federal policy about menopause or perimenopause. 134 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: There's very little knowledge in the public about this. Often 135 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: women themselves aren't really sure what's happening to them. And 136 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: we've heard so many stories, including my own, where am 137 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: I losing my mind totally? Who am I? Where is 138 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: my former sense of confidence or clarity, stability? A whole 139 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: range of mental health impacts, and of course a whole 140 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: range of physical impacts that are a bit more well known. 141 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: And so I was, yeah, I had the ability and 142 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: the motivation to suggest the Senate inquiry into this, and 143 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: the process was great. We had a whole year of hearings. 144 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: We had representatives from all the different political parties, interestingly 145 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: all women on the panel, which probably was quite helpful, 146 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: although we do need men to engage on this issue. 147 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: And in the end, despite our political differences, we all 148 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: agreed on some key recommendations. Happened all the round. 149 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: There's a lot of common ground. 150 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: So how many people did you hear from throughout the 151 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: inquiry like how many dozens of women? 152 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, we got hundreds of submissions from all sorts of people, 153 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: from organizations and representative bodies, from medical professionals, and most importantly, 154 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: in my view, from ordinary women. 155 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: A couple of them from my guests in the first 156 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: Oh How One series, who have been amazing supporters of 157 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: the podcast, but gave very valuable evidence as well when 158 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: it was their turn to speak. 159 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: Look, it was such a privilege to sit there and 160 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: hear women be so beautifully honest as often women can be, 161 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: and really share what they'd gone through. And I think 162 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: there's sometimes quite a bit of stigma about sharing that 163 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: you're struggling. To be so much so proud of it 164 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: that they were able to weakness, that's right. I felt 165 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: so proud that they were able to say, Look, actually 166 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to be I'm going to be real about 167 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: what I'm going through, and that just makes it absolutely 168 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: safer for everyone else to admit, oh my god, I've 169 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: been struggling as well. What did you do to manage? Oh, 170 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: here's what I did. And that strength and support that 171 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: you can draw from shared experience nothing beats it. So 172 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: I felt that every time we heard from the women 173 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: that gave evidence to the inquiry, and I can relate 174 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: to aspects of almost everybody's story, and it just, you know, 175 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: everyone was fiercely nodding along on the committee. And yeah, 176 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: and I think that's why we've come to such strong 177 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: recommendations about making sure that doctor get the training that 178 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: they need to recognize the symptoms, making sure that women 179 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: understand what to look for, because we heard horror stories 180 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: about misdiagnoses, and we heard women either said I was 181 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: anything wrong with you, Just go home and try to 182 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: get some rest, as if women at this age who 183 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: were often caring for kids and or older parents and 184 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: or working, like as if you've got time to rest, 185 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: we'd love to, but hates just happen. So there was 186 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: a lot of there was a lot of dismissal of 187 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: women's experience by doctors, and then there was also a 188 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: lot of doctors that just said, look, I don't have 189 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: a clue. We never got any training on this. 190 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: Well, that was one of there was twenty five recommend 191 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: or actually thirty five, no, twenty five recommendations sorry to 192 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: come out of the inquiry, one of which I think 193 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: for me was the most startling was that, no wonder 194 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: we feel discounted by doctors or doctors perhaps giving you 195 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: a script for antidepressants which is totally not what you 196 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: need because they get something like and hours, So we're 197 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: talking sixty minutes of training in medical school. 198 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: So no wonder we feel like we're floundering. 199 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely outrageous. We're more than half of the population and 200 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 1: every single one of us will go through perimenopause and menopause. Now, 201 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: some people won't have too many symptoms, great, well done. 202 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: Then others of us will struggle with some mild to 203 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: moderate symptoms, and about twenty percent of us will have 204 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: an absolute hell of a time and it will be 205 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: really debilitating and affect our ability to keep working and 206 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: affect our relationships. So there's clearly a lot of people 207 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: that will go through this and yet to have just 208 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: one hour. As we heard in the Senate inquiry for 209 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: undergraduate doctors to be taught about it really sounds like 210 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: no woman was in the room when that curriculum was written, 211 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: and that we really need to modernize what our medical 212 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: students get taught. And so that was one of the recommendations. 213 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: Let's bring it out of dark ages and make sure 214 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: that the whole range of women's health experiences, in particular 215 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: perimenopause and menopause, is properly taught in undergrad and not 216 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: just to future GPS, but to other allied health folk, 217 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: to physios, to nurses, to midwives. Let's make sure that 218 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: anyone that a woman might have contact with when she's 219 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 1: seeking some medical help knows what to look for and 220 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: can then help recommend potential treatments depending on what's right 221 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: for that woman. 222 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: I think the trouble is the mindfield of symptoms that 223 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: can be perimenopause or menopause as well. And sometimes you know, 224 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 2: I was talking to a girlfriend yesterday and there was 225 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 2: something wrong with my shoulder and I said to her, Oh, 226 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: could it be menopause? 227 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 3: Is it my joints? 228 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: I think there's We're easy to deflect. 229 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 3: Onto that when it may not be that. 230 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 2: But that's why it's so important for our medical fraternity 231 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: to be across it. Why is it that you know 232 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: that it's sort of shoved up to now being shoved 233 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 2: to the side. Is it because is it gendered ageism thing? 234 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 2: What is it that we're doing that it's not seen 235 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: as important as conception and pregnancy in birth. 236 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: It's so strange, isn't it, Pats that you talk we're 237 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: getting better at teaching our school kids about respectful relationships 238 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: and about puberty and about pregnancy, but there's nothing about 239 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: what happens once you've had a baby. And that's of 240 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: course acknowledging that not everyone wants to have children, not 241 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: everyone will, so it's almost like we're considered baby making 242 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: machines and then that's really all we're good for now. 243 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: That may well have been the vibe when those sort 244 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: of curricula were written, but we have long moved on 245 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: from those archaic notions. So we definitely need to modernize 246 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: what we're teaching kids, what we're teaching the future gps 247 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: of the world, and what we're teaching women. And I 248 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: think part of the reason why it's remained in the 249 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: shadows perhaps is probably two key things. I think, you know, 250 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: our mothers, maybe all of them speak about this with us. 251 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: Some are lucky and have really forthright mums that are 252 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: brave and proud, but I think there hasn't been that 253 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: sort of mum to daughter sharing and passing on. And 254 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: I think also, you know, forty fifty years ago, there 255 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: were less of us working, we were at home more 256 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: and you know, we just suffered in silence. We just 257 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 1: got on with a job. And these days most of 258 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: us are working as well as having car and duties, 259 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: and we're bloody busy, and we don't want to be 260 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: seen as incompetent because we've fought so hard to get 261 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: where we are in our careers. And people, many people 262 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: feel just a bit nervous about piping up saying, look, 263 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: I'm battling right now. I'll be okay, I'll get through this, 264 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: but can you give me a bit of leniency in 265 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: the time, you know, for the time being. And so 266 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: we really fought against that notion of this stigma and 267 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: what to do about that, and so how best to 268 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: tackle that in a policy sense. Should we have menopause 269 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: leave so that people that twenty percent that really struggle, 270 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: they can step out of the workforce, still have some pay, 271 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: perhaps it's unpaid leave or a mix, but keep that 272 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: connection to the workforce so that they can go back 273 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: to work when they've got their symptoms under control and 274 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: they're not, you know, not end up having real financial impacts. 275 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: Or did people feel a bit nervous saying to their 276 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: boss this is what I'm going through. Did they not 277 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: want to feel like they might be discriminated against. So 278 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: we took all of this marvelous evidence, and you know, 279 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to have a strong I don't like 280 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: telling people what to I think everyone could make up 281 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: their own minds. So we ended up recommending let's have 282 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: reproductive healthcare leave available to everyone, to women who are 283 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: maybe having really bad period pain, maybe having endos such 284 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: as yourself, maybe having other reproductive issues. Perhaps it's so 285 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: want to go and get their ultry sound because they're 286 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: having a bubber. Maybe it's perimenopause and menopause. Let's make 287 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: sure that it's the full diversity women's experience. But importantly, 288 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: let's let the dudes have a go to because otherwise 289 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: they'll complain. Perhaps they want to go get a vi 290 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,479 Speaker 1: sect to me, maybe they won't go along to the ultrasound. 291 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: Let's make this a leave provision that. 292 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: Every even you don't go and do this sperm sample 293 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: for IVF or go to a scan with that all 294 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: important scan with their partner, you know, when they are pregnant. 295 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: All that's right, egg retrieval, all those things there. Yeah, 296 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: and we need to part of the picture. 297 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: We need to promote men looking after their health as well, 298 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: because we know that many men, you know, keeping under 299 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: wraps and that ends up damaging their health even more. 300 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: And importantly promote men to being active dads and to 301 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: be encouraged by their workplace to go to those sort 302 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: of family appointments. So yeah, that's where we ended up landing. 303 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: And I think the balls now in the government's court. 304 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: But I would hope that any government, no matter what 305 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: political party they're from, can see that women deserve this, 306 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: that women have shared their experience as part of this 307 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: national year long inquiry, and that they want something done 308 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: and that their health care is worth it, and that 309 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: women deserve that kind of attention from their government. 310 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: We mentioned we touched on the GPS. What were some 311 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: of the other shocking sort of revelations for you and 312 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: came out of the inquiry? 313 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: Probably two key ones, Pats. One was that we've touched 314 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: a bit on the training. One was that one GP 315 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: said the only thing I was taught about menopause in 316 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: med school was that women were either mad or sad. Now, 317 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: what a gross summary acknowledging that menopauseal rage is a thing, 318 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: as is depression. And anxiety. So you know, there are 319 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: elements of mad or SAD, but what a reductionist. What 320 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: an absolutely limited education that is. And the second thing 321 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: that was the most confronting PATS was that doctors were 322 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: misdiagnosing women. And we heard so many times women share 323 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: the mental health challenges that perimenopause and menopause had brought 324 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: on for them, even if they hadn't had mental health 325 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: challenges before. And we had their gps say either just 326 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, have a rest, you just need to do list, 327 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: or we had them say, well, here's the prescription for antidepressants. 328 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: You just depressed. Here's some he's a fix for that. Now, 329 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: many people who suffer from depression do need antidepressants, but 330 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: if you're perimenopausal or menopausal, that's a hormonal depression. That's 331 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: a different thing which needs a different treatment. And so 332 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: MHT menopausal hormone therapy, which is the new name for HRT, 333 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: but it's the same thing. Actually, that's the medicine that 334 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: you might be needing and that might help you manage 335 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: not only the physical symptoms, but the mental health impacts 336 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: as well. 337 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 3: How do you do it? 338 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: Like people ask me when I'm you know, doing breakfast 339 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 2: radio and I'm a mum doing the podcast. 340 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: How do you do it? And it's like if. 341 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 2: I stopped, if I stopped and thought about it, I'd 342 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 2: probably enough in a fetal position. I don't know, you 343 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: just it's what I do. You just you know, I've 344 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: done breaking radio for over thirty years. It's just what 345 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: you do. Is that your crazy schedule? Do you feel 346 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 2: the same. It's just like it's all about routine, like 347 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: how do you and then navigate perimenopause and menopause. 348 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: A bit like your pats. I don't like to examine 349 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: it too deeply. On the house of cars might fall over, 350 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: But you just get on with it, don't you. We're 351 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: busy women, We're capable people. And I like to feel 352 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: like I'm making a difference in the world, and so 353 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: my work is really important to me, and I feel 354 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: really lucky to be able to keep doing it and 355 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: to keep pushing for change. It will help people and 356 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: protect the planet as well. So that's a real honor 357 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: to do it. And you know, I like the intellectual 358 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: stimulation that it gives me. But I also love caring 359 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: for my family and I'm a single parent and I've 360 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: been a single parent, you know quite some time now, 361 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm really lucky to have the help of my mum 362 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: to look after my girls. I don't think I could 363 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: do it without her. Obviously i'd have to pay someone, 364 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't have that same sense of reassurance that 365 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: my kids were getting the sort of care and values 366 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: that are important to me. So I have a lot 367 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: of help. I have one staff who helped me with 368 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: my work obligations. And I have a bunch of amazing 369 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: girlfriends that when I do get to see them, we're 370 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: pour our hearts out to each other, have a good 371 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: laugh and feel much stronger and get up and do 372 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: it all again the next day. 373 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 3: Don't you think that's been a big support for me? 374 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: Is the sisterhood is my girlfriends more than if I 375 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: was to sit on a psychologist couch, I think, and 376 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 2: being open with them, and it's of support and we 377 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: talk about everything. And lately, sort of the last few 378 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: years it's been dominated by menopause and I'm sorry, but 379 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: the head fuck that comes at menopause. 380 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 3: It's like a. 381 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: Counseling session when we get together and have a couple 382 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 2: of lines and talk about, Hey, I've had a really 383 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: hard week or like this week the hot flush is 384 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: I know I should have touched what I just said 385 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago to a girlfriend. 386 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: You know, I think I'm lucky with the hot flushes, 387 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 3: like I'm getting. 388 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: You jinx yourself that I know. 389 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: And then last weeken like I'm talking like nuclear power 390 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 2: forced flushes. I don't know whether it's getting warmer what 391 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 2: it is, but really like I spoke too soon, because 392 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: it's like they've up the ante. 393 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: Well, interestingly, perhaps you know the hot flushes are a 394 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: signal that you're getting closer towards actual menopause and further 395 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: into your perry because what we learned, one of the 396 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: things we learned in the inquiry was that one of 397 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: the triggers for prescribing MHT for GPS is have you 398 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: had a hot flush yet? But interestingly, often the mental 399 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: health impacts come first, you know, the sense of self doubt, 400 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: the brain fog sometimes, the rage, the creeping sense of anxiety, 401 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: the depression, joy, the malaise, the sleep interruptions, a lot 402 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: of that which, as you said, can be caused by 403 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: other things. And that's why we have doctors, and that's 404 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: why they should listen to us and have helped to 405 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: work out what the symptoms are up to. But often 406 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: the hot flushes don't start until kind of at least 407 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: halfway through a bit later on. And so interestingly, one 408 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: of the recommendations was we should look at the guidelines 409 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: for when you can prescribe air mah T, because if 410 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: a woman hasn't had a hot flush yet everything else 411 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: points to perimenopause, it may well indeed be perimenopause. 412 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 3: Yes. 413 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: One of the key problems though with their h T 414 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: perats is it's really unaffordable. 415 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 416 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: We heard one really really confronting story which was a 417 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: woman said, well, I was managing my depression and anxiety, 418 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: my menopausal perimenopausal depression and anxiety. I was managing that 419 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: well on MHT. I couldn't afford it anymore, and so 420 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: I got a pack of Valian which was fifteen dollars 421 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: through a pack of fifty. And you know that breaks 422 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: my heart in a wealthy nation like ours, when you've 423 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: been diagnosed and what medicine you need and you can't 424 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: afford to get it. And the doctors themselves said they 425 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: really struggled when they knew their patients weren't going to 426 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: be able to get the treatment that they actually needed 427 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: because they couldn't afford it. Yeah, really really awful, but fixable, fixable. 428 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: By government training. Women deserve more than that, Larissa. 429 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: We do to keep us at out best, we should 430 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: be able to afford the health care we need. 431 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: And so many women too, like overrepresented of overrepresentation of 432 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 2: women who end up quitting work. And we touched on earlier. 433 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: They've worked decades and decades to get to the point 434 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: they're at and then they hit menopause at slams and 435 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 2: in the face it's like, actually can't do this anymore. 436 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: And it's not that you can't do it, it's just 437 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 2: you need you need help. 438 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we heard how to provide it. So many 439 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: stories of that. Perats really seen your women. We heard 440 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: some really powerful evidence in the inquiry from an anethetist 441 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: who was representing the you know, the representative body for 442 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: other aetheists. And you know, that's a pretty impactful job. 443 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: You want to be you want to be feeling like 444 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: you've got confidence in the decision that you're making because 445 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: because someone's life is in your hands. And so we 446 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: heard that that senior women like that were just finding 447 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: themselves so challenged either physically or mentally or both by perimenopause, 448 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: that they were taking less duties, or they were dropping 449 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: down to part time, or they weren't going for that promotion, 450 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: or worst case scenario, they were just tapping out and saying, look, 451 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: I'll just go, you know, work in a nursery or something. 452 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: Just just have a break for a while now. So 453 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: people that can afford to make that decision, you know, 454 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: that's less of an impact. But generally people can't afford 455 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: to make that decision, and you pay for it. In retirement, 456 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: we know women retire with less than men anyway, that 457 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: two thirds as much. And the amount of women retiring 458 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: into poverty, particularly after a lifetime of unpaid care, is 459 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: really concerning. And so women's financial security is a big deal, 460 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: and perimenopause and menopause is part of helping with that. 461 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: Homelessness and women over fifty is a major issue. It 462 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: really is their marriages have ended, and they've perhaps given 463 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: up work if they worked at all when their first 464 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: child was born, so they've worked in the home and 465 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: they've got no backup, and that's the relationship and they're 466 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: upshit creek base. 467 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: That's right, they've worked their whole damn lives. Yeah, but 468 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: the system didn't see the work that they did as valuable, 469 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: didn't pay them for all of that work, even though 470 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: it enabled others to do paid work and it helped 471 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: our whole community keep functioning. Yeah, valuing women's unpaid labor 472 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: is an unfinished business for me in Parliament. We could 473 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: be doing so much more to value that work because 474 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: it is absolutely crucial, and you're so right that women 475 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: are copying that disproportionately. And women over fifty five until 476 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: about a year ago had been the fastest growing cohort 477 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: of people in peril of homelessness. But I just checked 478 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: in with the Department last end of twenty twenty four 479 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: and now it's actually women over thirty four, So that 480 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: kind of middle cohort is now have an increasing risk 481 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: of homelessness as well. And the similar sorts of reasons. 482 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: It's relationship breakdown, the fact that the work that women 483 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: do when we are getting paid, we're still getting paid. Yes, 484 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: because women dominating fields that aren't seen as important as 485 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: the fields that the men dominating, you know, childcare, nursing, teaching, 486 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: rather than construction or mining. So there's just a whole 487 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: lot of systemic sexism still that's leading to that outcomes 488 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: for women. And you know, there's a lot of people 489 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: trying to fix that. There's quite a few men trying 490 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: to fix that too, and so that Dan well should 491 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: there's still a long way to go. 492 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: If there's women listening that feel like they need support 493 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: or perhaps feel like they want to advocate for other women, 494 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: would you recommend they go to their local member. 495 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: Is that always a good tact? 496 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: I think that's a great suggestion, Pats. Firstly, of course, 497 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: reach out to your girlfriends because they're probably feeling a 498 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: version of what you're feeling, and you'll find that once 499 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: the first person starts the conversation. If your friends are 500 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: anything like mine, you'll all be in phusing. So yeah, 501 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: find support in your networks, and whether that's just your 502 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: friends or whether it's professional support, if you need it, 503 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: go and talk to your doctor. In terms of fixing 504 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: the affordability of medicine and your rights at work, that 505 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: is something for government. So reaching out to your local 506 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: member of parliament. You can call them or just email them, 507 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: whatever time of night or day, and just share your 508 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: personal experience and ask them what they're going to do 509 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: to help you, and that you actually have that right 510 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: to be helped, that you matter, and that policy should 511 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: be made for you, and that you deserve to have 512 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: a system that works for you and supports you. We 513 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: all deserve that. 514 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 2: Where would you hope that we are I'm going to 515 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: give you like a long range if you had like 516 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 2: a wish in like five years time, where would you 517 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: hope that we as a country are at. 518 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: That's a big question. In terms of for women, I'd 519 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: hope that we'd finally started to reduce the rates of 520 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: violence against women and children, because in recent years it's 521 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: gone up, and I find that very confronting, and many 522 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: women are very unsafe, and that is just so deeply 523 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: challenging and confronting. So we've got a lot of cultural 524 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: work to do to fix the attitudes that lead to 525 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: that behavior. In a similar i'd hope that the gender 526 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: pay gaps started to close faster. All of these vestiges 527 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: of sexism and power imbalance that express themselves in so 528 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: many systemic ways, whether it's violence in the home, whether 529 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: it's being undervalued at work, whether it's harassment on the 530 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: street or at work. I want the underlying the value 531 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: of women to be better recognized so that we're treated 532 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: better and treated equally. I think probably many women want 533 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: that also, and it's a job for all of us, 534 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: but it's a job for the dudes as well. You 535 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: know that we need to address the toxic masculinity that 536 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: puts the blinkers on them and makes them think they've 537 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: got to be a certain way and we've got to 538 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: be a certain way, and it doesn't help either of us. 539 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: We need to make sure that all genders are feeling 540 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: feeling okay about themselves so they're not now treating others. 541 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: To put it in its grossest terms, it's. 542 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 2: Been quite surprising with the first series. The feedback surprising 543 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: and also humbling, the feedback I've had from men all 544 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 2: across the world, who even men in their thirties really 545 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: was and expecting that dropping into my dams and saying, hey, 546 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: thank you for helping to educate me and what it was. 547 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 2: Obviously I knew what it was my mum was going 548 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: through it, but I didn't kind of really understand it. 549 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 2: And really, let's face it, if we as women are 550 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: confused as to what's happening with us, how must some 551 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 2: men be feeling so thank you for helping to educate 552 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 2: me and also helping equip me so that when my 553 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: partner or my best friend or whoever, or a colleague 554 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: is going through it, I can help support them in 555 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 2: some small way. And that's possibly, I think being probably 556 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 2: the biggest form of gratification for me so far doing 557 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: the podcast. That's major for me to get that sort 558 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: of feedback, because you're right, it's not just an issue 559 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: for women, It's an issue for everyone. 560 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: And I salute those men who've had the empathy and 561 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: the interest to inform themselves, and well done to you 562 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: for giving them a kind of a vehicle to learn 563 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: a bit more in a safe and easy way for them. 564 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: I reckon if men's start talking about this amongst themselves, 565 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: that's when we'll see the real change for women, because 566 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, the men tend to listen to each other, 567 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: don't they, And so we need those strong leaders to 568 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: lead with compassion and empathy and to really deconstruct those 569 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: gender stereotypes that box them in and end up harming us. 570 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: I actually think it's really exciting this period of time, Larissa. 571 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: I really think I feel I can almost taste that 572 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: we've got this amazing opportunity to change the course of 573 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: what we do, and the Senate Inquiry is a major 574 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: part of that. 575 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 3: It's like put the brakes on. That's enough. 576 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: Now we need to recalibrate and look at how this 577 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: is going to look in five, ten, fifteen, twenty years 578 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: time for our nation and for women and the community. 579 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 2: And I'm excited by it because I know that it's 580 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: it's going to only be better and better, and I 581 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: think the Senate Inquiry is the first major part of that. 582 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 2: So well done to you, fort like that is part 583 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,719 Speaker 2: of your legacy. I hope you realize, Yeah, thank you, 584 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: orders And for other women, I still. 585 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: Pinch myself that I get to do stuff like this 586 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: in my day job. And yeah, it's a real honor. 587 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: And I feel so proud of the Senate itself that 588 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: it agreed that, yes, we should give women this platform, 589 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: we should bloody well listen to what they have to say. So, yeah, 590 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: it still gives me tingles. We've got a long way 591 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: to go, but you're right, there's so many of us 592 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: working and I feel like we are making improvements every day. 593 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: We've got to watch for the pushback, and there's that 594 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: really worrying trend that some of the community attitude surveys 595 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: are picking up lately of young men kind of falling 596 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: back into sexist notions. And you know, we all know 597 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: some of the Internet sensations, even though they're complete losers, 598 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: are influencing young men to have those toxic sexist attitudes. 599 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: So we really do need to address that as a community. 600 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: Notwithstanding that kind of I think last minute pushback feels 601 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: that we are making positive change. We just need to 602 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: keep at it and not give up and have more 603 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: women empowered in roles where they're seen by other young girls. 604 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: You know, you can't be what you can't see, as 605 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: the saying goes, So we need more women in those 606 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: senior roles right across it, whether it's a sport fielder, 607 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: it's the business world, whether it's they're not for profit 608 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: sector or politics. Yeah, we got this. 609 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: And if you like this episode, download my season one 610 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: interview with Grace malloy from Menopause Friendly Australia, who's pushing 611 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: for workplaces to create an open, inclusive and supportive culture 612 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: regarding menopause. Join me in episode three with Trady Brett Hinton. 613 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: Yes that's right, a bloke talking women's stuff. Brett heads 614 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 2: up the Man Up for Endo campaign and has something 615 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: to say about awareness for endometriosis, a condition that impacts 616 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: one in seven Aussie women, including me. He's leading the 617 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: way in helping transform the way we speak about health 618 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 2: issues affecting women and its proactive attitudes like his that 619 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 2: are benefiting the discussions around perimenopause and menopause. I'm Patrina 620 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 2: Jones and this is my podcast, Rage Against the 621 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: Menopause, Rage Against the Menopause.