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Speaker 1: Mama.

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Speaker 2: Always always be careful. Love those umboo let we'll use

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Speaker 2: your head. They will tear you lack a paper talk.

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Speaker 2: Oh no no, no, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no. Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Amanda and I'm Remy.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to It's Layer.

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Speaker 4: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty

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Speaker 4: years ago when we were in high school.

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Speaker 3: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

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Speaker 3: and everything else under the sun.

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Speaker 2: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know.

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Speaker 4: My layers. Oh no no, no, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, Hello everybody,

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Speaker 4: and welcome back to its Laird. Today, we have a

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Speaker 4: really great topic on our hands and as a really

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Speaker 4: special guest with us that we're going to be talking

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Speaker 4: about motherhood. Amanda, I'm sure you're like taking notes.

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Speaker 3: Oh yous, ladies take notes.

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Speaker 4: We're all taking notes, and I'm so excited to introduce.

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Speaker 4: Score is Zimbabwean professional and wife based in Geneva, Switzerland.

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Speaker 4: She is a mother of two and she's a devout Christian.

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Speaker 4: She's been mothering for twenty one whole years. I met

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Speaker 4: school through my sister through church when I used to

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Speaker 4: live in Johanna's with South Africa, and so it's really

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Speaker 4: an honor to have her on here.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to It's layered score.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Rumby, Thank you, Amanda. It's such

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Speaker 5: an honor to be here today.

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Speaker 2: Oh we're so excited to have you.

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Speaker 4: So when I saw the I've been a mother for

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Speaker 4: twenty one years right in your bier, I was just like, wow,

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Speaker 4: and please tell us a little bit more about your family,

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Speaker 4: because yeah, if you wouldn't mind, we'd love to hear

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Speaker 4: a little bit more about you and your family.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Rumby.

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Speaker 5: You know that twenty one years of mother would always

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Speaker 5: raise his questions. You know, after that, the next question is,

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Speaker 5: so school, how old are you?

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Speaker 2: You know you know much to ask.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be that person.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then I'm always like, I'm just aging gracefully.

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Speaker 5: That's what makes us yes, yeah, absolutely yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, I have two children this room you're already said.

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Speaker 5: I'm married and I have two children, a twenty one

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Speaker 5: year old son. Ironically, he tends twenty one yesterday, so yeah,

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Speaker 5: oh had.

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Speaker 3: Birthday, thank you.

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Speaker 5: And then I had a daughter. She's sixteen twenty seven

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Speaker 5: in January. So when I introduced myself, I say, my

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Speaker 5: youngest is sixteen and people are like, what we got

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Speaker 5: to was six.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you definitely look so youthful. I'm sitting in shop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I left Zombabwe in two thousand and five with

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Speaker 5: my husband.

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Speaker 1: Our son was too at that point.

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Speaker 5: I'm giving you this background because it will be reflected

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Speaker 5: later when I talk about mothering in general. So we

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Speaker 5: left in two thousand and five when my son was two,

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Speaker 5: and we moved to pook It and we stayed there

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Speaker 5: for a few years, and already the dynamics there when

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Speaker 5: it comes to parenting. And then after a few years,

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Speaker 5: we moved to South Africa, which is where our daughter

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Speaker 5: was born. And we lived in South Africa for eleven years,

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Speaker 5: no ten years, and then we moved to Washington, d C.

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Speaker 5: So that's another dynamic. Now you're taking this Zimbabwean child

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Speaker 5: born in South Africa and you're raising them in Washington, DC,

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Speaker 5: where they constantly say to you in America, you know,

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Speaker 5: this is how things are done. And then I'm like, no,

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Speaker 5: when we close this door, my children, you are in Zimbabwe.

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Speaker 3: Forget these are border.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. So, so I lived in America for two years

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Speaker 5: and then moved back to South Africa.

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Speaker 1: But at that point.

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Speaker 5: I sent the children to boarding school in Swaziland.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And then after eighteen months in.

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Speaker 5: Swaziland, then I brought them to Geneva and then now

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Speaker 5: my son is studying in London. So that's how colorful

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Speaker 5: the journey has been.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Like I don't even know if it's yeah.

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Speaker 3: We did an episode last season on global citizenship and

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Speaker 3: third culture kids, and your kids are like the definition

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Speaker 3: because they have experienced so many Some people don't even

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Speaker 3: travel to that many countries in their lifetime and your

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Speaker 3: kids have live moved there. Yes, so wow, wow.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I mean her I will say school's children,

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Speaker 4: I've met them.

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Speaker 2: They are so well mannered, well rounded.

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Speaker 4: Your daughter is so spunky, she's she's I love her

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Speaker 4: personality like it really shines. And to be able to

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Speaker 4: do that being in all these different spaces, hats off

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Speaker 4: kudos to I don't know how you did at school,

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Speaker 4: and I hope we will get into how you managed to,

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Speaker 4: you know, conceptualize motherhood in these different spaces. How has

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Speaker 4: your journey been to motherhood? How would you describe it

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Speaker 4: when when you became a mom with your son, you

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Speaker 4: said in Zim was it easy?

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Speaker 2: Was it hard? Were you prepared.

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Speaker 4: How would you describe that journey, you know, getting into motherhood,

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Speaker 4: probably with your son, because he introduced you to motherhood.

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Speaker 1: How was that, Yes, I think you un be.

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Speaker 5: I think with my first child, I would say it

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Speaker 5: was relatively easy compared to when I hit my second child.

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Speaker 1: You know how we all have this support system.

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Speaker 5: So when I had my son, my mom was literally

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Speaker 5: with me for a whole month, you know, so she

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Speaker 5: sort of as shot me into that journey. She was

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Speaker 5: doing most of the mothering, you know, in the first

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Speaker 5: few weeks, you know, while you're just feeding the baby,

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Speaker 5: but she makes sure she the baby's clean, the baby's

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Speaker 5: clothes are done, the baby is well fed. So that

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Speaker 5: was sort of a good introduction to motherhood. But what

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Speaker 5: I didn't realize was that my son hit eze and

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Speaker 5: I had never experienced ezemer before. So my first question

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Speaker 5: was what's happening with his skin? And I didn't know,

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Speaker 5: you know, And then when I took him for his

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Speaker 5: six weeks check up, I was told that I hate

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Speaker 5: to use a certain kind of cream, you know, so

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Speaker 5: that bible, you know, when you've just hit a baby,

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Speaker 5: are so excited. Everything is perfect. It's this little treasure,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 5: there's this skin thing that you can't take off, you know.

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Speaker 5: So for me, that was where the first challenge really started.

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Speaker 5: But I would still say, despite the challenge that I

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Speaker 5: experienced with exzema, I still thought that that's a very

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Speaker 5: special thing, a special relationship, you know, the type of

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Speaker 5: unconditional love that you can't even explain or describe to anyone.

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Speaker 5: And then I had my second child, the daughter. You know,

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Speaker 5: like what you think, you have this little doll that

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Speaker 5: you dress up and matching out exactly, you know, so

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Speaker 5: all these nice cute little things, and you know, so

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Speaker 5: with her, it was now in South Africa, you know,

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Speaker 5: but South Africa bring clothes to Zimbabwe. At least I

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Speaker 5: had a lot of familiar around. I could get living

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Speaker 5: help and that kind of thing, so it was sort of.

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Speaker 1: A smooth journey.

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Speaker 5: And then I would say that things really started getting

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Speaker 5: tough when the children started having their own opinions, you know,

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Speaker 5: when they could talk, when they could tell you what

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Speaker 5: works for them and what doesn't. And you know, you're thinking,

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Speaker 5: I'm the mom, I know what you should be doing,

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Speaker 5: you know. So I would really say for mother. Would

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Speaker 5: it's a very special thing. It's a very fulfilling journey.

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Speaker 5: But I wish there was a script. You know, the

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Speaker 5: fact that there is no script means that you have

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Speaker 5: to do trial and error. You learn as you go,

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Speaker 5: and the fact that you have hit a child before

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Speaker 5: doesn't mean that now you are fully fully prepared for

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Speaker 5: the second one, because children have different personalities. What worked

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Speaker 5: with the first child doesn't really work, you know, with

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Speaker 5: the second one. So I would say that has been

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Speaker 5: my journey. But what I did mention was that after

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Speaker 5: my son had eggs then at eighteen, mans discovered it

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Speaker 5: was asthmatic, so he had his first stint you know,

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Speaker 5: in the emagency or hospitalization made for a whole week.

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Speaker 5: And there's a young mom. That was devastating for me

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Speaker 5: because when your child all was really sick for the

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Speaker 5: first time, you're thinking.

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Speaker 1: Their dead, you know. Shame.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So that's that's how it's been. But I would

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Speaker 5: say it's really beautiful feeling journey.

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Speaker 2: That's wonderful.

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Speaker 4: You know, you mentioned finding out your your son had

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Speaker 4: EGSMA my mom when she she was she just had me,

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Speaker 4: I was a baby. They discovered my sister had retina

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Speaker 4: blastoma cancer of the eye, and she said that was

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Speaker 4: the most she was so nervous, and my sister, being

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Speaker 4: my sister, was like, Mommy, don't worry, I'm not going

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Speaker 4: to die.

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Speaker 2: And I think that.

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Speaker 4: As you say, like being you, you're expecting. Oh, it's joyful,

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Speaker 4: it's blissful. And then this thing that's dropped on your lap,

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Speaker 4: You're like, what am I supposed to do with that? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's really really interesting to.

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Speaker 2: Hear that.

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Speaker 4: And I don't know matter if you want to share

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Speaker 4: your journey to motherhood, you know, and how.

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Speaker 2: That was for you as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one thing I caught before I forget

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Speaker 3: my train of thought because this happens to me a lot,

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Speaker 3: was also you're the covering that your mother offered, you know,

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Speaker 3: like in that first month, and like for me, my

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Speaker 3: mom has passed away, my own mom has passed away.

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Speaker 3: So and a cousin of mine come from Zim to

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Speaker 3: help me for three months and I cannot sing her

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Speaker 3: praises enough because you justlet covering well whilst you're healing,

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Speaker 3: whilst you're getting used to things, you know, especially when

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Speaker 3: a mother as well, and they're imparting their wisdom in

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Speaker 3: a gentle way. It's such a special time that's hard

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Speaker 3: to describe but necessary. So support network is is a

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Speaker 3: huge consideration. I think it's much bigger than people say

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Speaker 3: or tell you that you need other women to step

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Speaker 3: in and lift you up at that time because you

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Speaker 3: don't know. As Ruby said, you get this thing and

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Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, okay, I've been carrying you in my

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Speaker 3: timmy for nine months.

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Speaker 2: Yeah what you know?

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, So I just wanted to say that my

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Speaker 3: own journey was I'm away from home, so I guess

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Speaker 3: for me everything, it felt. The support system in terms

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Speaker 3: of the hospitals and stuff in Australia is very good.

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Speaker 3: So I felt like I had that. But I did

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Speaker 3: feel a bit of disconnect being a black woman in

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Speaker 3: a predominantly white society because I was like, what if

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Speaker 3: when I give birth they're looking at me and they're like,

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Speaker 3: we've never seen a lady like this, you know, Like

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Speaker 3: I just thought, you know, so it was very important

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Speaker 3: that I had, like I made my own village, you know.

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Speaker 3: The doctor I chose, I knew she had done work

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Speaker 3: in Africa before, so she had seen a black person before.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like I was a guinea pig, you know,

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Speaker 3: And I would have to say, after hearing all the

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Speaker 3: horror stories of bird stories and that I had smooth

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Speaker 3: sailing in terms of my bird story. But like I think, again,

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Speaker 3: that's also another thing you can't predict. You know, even

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Speaker 3: if you have five children, every pregnancy will be different,

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Speaker 3: every birth story will be different. So yeah, it's it's unique,

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Speaker 3: I think, And I think people think it's a blanket

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Speaker 3: thing is all the same, but no, every journey is very,

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Speaker 3: very different. So I'm very glad and grateful you shared

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Speaker 3: yours because yeah, I can imagine the first time in

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Speaker 3: the er would have been so scary. Yeah. Do you

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Speaker 3: think you had a plan though heading into motherhood, like

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Speaker 3: before your your son was born, where you're like, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be this type of mom, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do this or did you just always learn as you go?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say I really didn't have a plan,

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Speaker 5: or if I had one, I don't remember it. Yeah

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Speaker 5: the window, Yeah, I don't really remember the plan because

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Speaker 5: you know, like in our context, you know, like there

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Speaker 5: is my husband's family and there is my family, and

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Speaker 5: the two families really influence how you how you parent

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Speaker 5: your children.

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Speaker 1: So all though I.

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Speaker 5: Had a certain idea of how I wanted things done,

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Speaker 5: there's certain things that I learned from my husband's side

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Speaker 5: of the family that for our babies, this is what

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Speaker 5: we do, you know, and then you all of us

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Speaker 5: didn't realize. Oh okay, so there are other plans that

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Speaker 5: I have to align with mine and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: That's great.

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Speaker 5: So for the most it's really been learning as I go.

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Speaker 5: I was just laughing there that they was telling someone

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Speaker 5: that after I hit my son, I thought I knew

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Speaker 5: about babies, and then when my daughter was born, and

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Speaker 5: then the first day, because I was supposed to bathy,

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Speaker 5: all of a sudden, I couldn't remember what I was

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Speaker 5: supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: And then then I rang the bell in one of

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Speaker 1: the nurses came.

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Speaker 5: I said, can you help me path the baby because

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Speaker 5: I look very at that point, okay, I looked very tiny,

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Speaker 5: you know, sixteen years ago. And she said, oh, poor

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Speaker 5: little thing, let me help you. And then afterwards she said, oh,

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Speaker 5: you're first born, and then I said second one, and

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Speaker 5: the nurse was really angry and she just said and

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Speaker 5: then she walked away.

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Speaker 3: Wow, wow wow wow wow.

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Speaker 5: That is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So the point is, even if you have done it

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Speaker 5: the first time, the second time, they still variations, or

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Speaker 5: maybe your mind still thinks I'm not confident enough to

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Speaker 5: do certain things and I still need help. So the

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Speaker 5: thing is, you will never get to a point where

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Speaker 5: you say a one hundred percent confident I can walk

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Speaker 5: this genie alone. So the village that you talk about, Amanda,

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Speaker 5: you will still need it when you have your second child,

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Speaker 5: if that's what you desire to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I find like what you're talking about a

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Speaker 3: lot of women have said like each pregnancy, it's almost

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Speaker 3: like it can be traumatic, you know, getting through pregnancy

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Speaker 3: and childbirth, and I think we lock it away in

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Speaker 3: a part of our brain and then like people expect

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Speaker 3: us to just go back and access it, but because

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Speaker 3: it can't have a bit of trauma around it, you

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Speaker 3: completely forget, you know. I also have another friend of

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Speaker 3: mine who's just given birth to their second one, and

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Speaker 3: she's I'm also relearning as if I'm a new mom.

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Speaker 3: So it's quite interesting that you mentioned that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is.

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Speaker 4: And I think also something you brought up was thinking

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Speaker 4: about there's a different way to parents, like, you know,

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Speaker 4: not being stuck in your head like there's only one

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Speaker 4: way and being open to a different way to parents,

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Speaker 4: which is very interesting.

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Speaker 2: We don't really hear that very often. Would you say.

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Speaker 4: That your parenting journey hasn't been as maybe anxiety inducing

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Speaker 4: or stressful because you didn't go with a set.

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Speaker 2: This is how it's supposed to be. Did that help you?

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Speaker 5: So?

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Speaker 4: I just wanted to ask that because I'm saying I'm

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Speaker 4: curious to know if you think it made it easier

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Speaker 4: to accept parenting as you went as opposed to if

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Speaker 4: you had an idea that it has to look like

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Speaker 4: this and I have to do it like this. Do

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Speaker 4: you think it helped you manage parenting a bit better?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're talking about being open minded in

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Speaker 5: flexible years. I think it has helped me to a

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Speaker 5: certain extent because if I had worked with the template,

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Speaker 5: I would have realized that this template doesn't work, you know,

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Speaker 5: because I feel that sometimes when you have this certain

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Speaker 5: idea of how it works before you have the child,

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Speaker 5: you are planning for a human being that you haven't seen,

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Speaker 5: and you don't know the child that you're going to

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Speaker 5: be given. What if they don't fit into that script

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Speaker 5: that you have? And then the advice that we get

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Speaker 5: from the aunties and the parents. They have parents and

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Speaker 5: different children, but not your specific child, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: So the ideas they give you can choose which ones

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Speaker 5: work for you and which ones don't, you know, But

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Speaker 5: there is no set way, you know. So I always

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Speaker 5: encourage all new mothers to say, just go into it

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Speaker 5: with an open mind, discover things as you go along.

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Speaker 5: I think ruby as a newly word, if I may say,

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Speaker 5: It's the same with marriage, you know, like sometimes you

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Speaker 5: say all men want to be treated like this, and

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Speaker 5: you should ask, have you've been married to this particular

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Speaker 5: man before?

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Speaker 1: For you how he should be treated?

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Speaker 2: You know, you're so right.

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Speaker 4: So given that, I love that perspective. Thank you so

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Speaker 4: much for shing that. How would you measure success as

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Speaker 4: a parent for you?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 2: What does that look like for you?

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Speaker 5: I think for me it's raising rounded kids like you

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Speaker 5: mentioned that room be like children that have been everywhere. Literally,

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Speaker 5: like my mother says, when I think of your kids,

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Speaker 5: I just imagine them carrying suitcases. So after carrying suitcases

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Speaker 5: for so many years, who come out as a rounded individual.

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Speaker 5: And the question that I'm sure most people want to

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Speaker 5: ask is how do you define roundedness, you know, like

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Speaker 5: being grounded, having values that really set you up for success,

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Speaker 5: respecting yourself, you know, respecting the community around you. And

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Speaker 5: for me is a Christian and you know, my children's

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Speaker 5: relationship with God also is very important in terms of

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Speaker 5: how I measure my success as a mother. And then

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Speaker 5: academic success of courses Zimbabwe and you know, like our

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Speaker 5: parents taught has just got to get the good grades,

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Speaker 5: have a good life, you know. So for me that's

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Speaker 5: also very important. My children's ability to plan their lives,

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Speaker 5: decide what they want and work towards the future that

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Speaker 5: they want, you know. So it's really centered around what

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Speaker 5: I considered very important in my life, and some of

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Speaker 5: it I think it's also influenced by how my parents

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Speaker 5: raised me. Like my father used to love whenever he like,

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Speaker 5: I would sit and say, I'm studying, and then he

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Speaker 5: would come in an hour later and you'll find me

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Speaker 5: fast asleep.

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Speaker 1: And then he would.

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Speaker 5: Say, and then you play school. Do you know, twenty

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Speaker 5: years from now, people who ask me what happened to

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Speaker 5: your daughter? And can you imagine when I say to them, oh,

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Speaker 5: school is working in mouth prize and how will that feel?

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Speaker 1: So for me? Not that there's anything wrong with that life?

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Speaker 5: How wrapped it in to say you have to work

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Speaker 5: hard things will just come to you. So that's the

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Speaker 5: same way that I'm raising my kids to say, in

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Speaker 5: this life, you have to go for what you want

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Speaker 5: and really work hard for it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny you talk about our parents. I

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Speaker 3: think I've experienced that too, where it's like, now you

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Speaker 3: see your parents in a different light when you become

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Speaker 3: a parent yourself, You're like, oh, that's why they used

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Speaker 3: to do you know what I mean? Like, it's not

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Speaker 3: just them being cruel or them being it's you actually

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Speaker 3: start to understand. I think you almost look back on

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Speaker 3: your own childhood when you're now imparting or starting a

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Speaker 3: childhood or someone else. You know, where do you think personally,

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Speaker 3: if you want to share, you align or you differ

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Speaker 3: from your own parents when it comes to parenting, especially

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Speaker 3: because Zimbabwean parents of that generation, we always joke me

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Speaker 3: and room Be that they're the same. They're the same,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, we're all you know, So where do

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Speaker 3: you think you are a lign or differ from them?

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Speaker 5: I would send to a very large extent, the issue

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Speaker 5: of discipline and respecting other people, I think I align

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Speaker 5: with my parents, but the method of discipline may be

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Speaker 5: slightly different because I come from that generation that didn't

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Speaker 5: spare the road, you know, we were just spect writing

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Speaker 5: center anything normal. But then for the children in this

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Speaker 5: current setup, I cannot use that type of parenting, so

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Speaker 5: I've had to find other ways of disciplining and withdrawing

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Speaker 5: privileges that kind of thing. But in terms of you know,

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Speaker 5: the spirit of wunto what to call in Shorna, you know,

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Speaker 5: that's really grounded in the way that I was raised.

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Speaker 5: And also just being useful around the house. That's one

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Speaker 5: thing that I always encourage my children to do. They

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Speaker 5: have a lot of conveniences, you know, dishwasher, washing machine,

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Speaker 5: but I always make sure that zimbabwan childs, you should

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Speaker 5: have an idea of how to do the dishes or

398
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Speaker 5: at least wash your socks using your hands, you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean, because yeah, nowadays just throw everything in

400
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Speaker 5: the in the washing machine, including their sneakers that you know,

401
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 5: I say, I use that machine to wash my white

402
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Speaker 5: sheds and dresses and you put your sneakers there, So

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Speaker 5: it doesn't work for me, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And the thing is with life. I always say, we

406
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Speaker 5: never know where our children will end. We give them

407
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Speaker 5: the best that we can, but we don't know what

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Speaker 5: if one day you get a job ins out so

409
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Speaker 5: that and where you have no access to a dishwasher

410
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Speaker 5: or a washing machine, you will spend all your money

411
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Speaker 5: trying to look for the nearest laundromat or whatever. And

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Speaker 5: I always say that can be life. So for me,

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Speaker 5: I would say my parenting style has been a combination

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Speaker 5: of what I got from my parents and then infusing

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Speaker 5: in with the latest or the modern ways of parenting.

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Speaker 5: And you know, like for example, my parents would wake

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Speaker 5: us up at five am.

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Speaker 1: You know, you do chores and things like that.

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Speaker 5: But for these children, I can't wait them marpet for

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Speaker 5: you know, because they will say I would just vacuum

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Speaker 5: clean this house in thirty minutes.

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Speaker 1: Why am I waiting a p it for? You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean?

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Speaker 5: While I've been taking the good from the past, merging

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Speaker 5: with the good from this current, this current generation. But

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Speaker 5: I would say, way it gets really difficult. It's raising

427
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Speaker 5: the girl child, you know, because our parents there is a

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Speaker 5: certain notion of what it means to be a girl.

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Speaker 1: What's that step tap in your community?

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Speaker 5: So I would get comments like what kind of woman

431
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Speaker 5: is this girl, like referring to my daughter, and my

432
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Speaker 5: response is always she's not a woman, she's a child.

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Speaker 1: She's you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: Repair that again, yes, like when people say it in

435
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 5: you know, like when you say it in English, maybe

436
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 5: it doesn't sound a course when they say what kind

437
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 5: of woman? But when you say it in the really

438
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Speaker 5: like in passenger and say you know, and I say,

439
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Speaker 5: you can't talk about the ten year old, and same

440
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 5: cards that I say, she's not even the child. And

441
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 5: I think with what will be referred to earlier, the

442
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 5: problem of child marriages and that kind of thing that

443
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 5: we have in our in our country, we should allow

444
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 5: children to be children and not sort of raise them

445
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 5: as these women before they are women. It says, if

446
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 5: we are bringing them for marriage before they're ready, you

447
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 5: know what I mean? And I feel that sometimes when

448
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 5: people see your children like they haven't seen them in

449
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 5: whatever years, like after college you go home and everyone

450
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 5: is like, oh, your son is all grown up. Very

451
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 5: soon we have rough or very soon we have I'm like,

452
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 5: why are we so quick to go that direction? Why

453
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 5: don't you just appreciate them for who they are for now,

454
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 5: what they're doing in school and that kind of thing.

455
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 5: You can always try to link the lives to marriage whatever,

456
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 5: and you know.

457
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: Yes' marriage than marriage.

458
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, your preaching, I'm here, Yes, I know.

459
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 3: Like and especially because we've spoken about gender roles before,

460
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 3: it's so inspiring to hear you speak about you teaching

461
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 3: your son as well that he needs to mush and

462
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 3: socks and do the dishes, because I think as well,

463
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 3: sometimes it happens in Zimbabwean homes is then the woman

464
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: or the girl child has to do all those things,

465
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 3: but the boy can sit and relax, you know, because

466
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 3: he's gonna get a mura a wife one day, you know.

467
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: And it's it's it's inspiring to hear you you being

468
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: able to fuse the two together in.

469
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 4: Your home absolutely and to show that it can be done.

470
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 4: As I've said, you know, meeting your children, being around

471
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: your family, just the energy you have as a family

472
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 4: and your children. And also I love your relationship with

473
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 4: your husband. And you seem very zen, very at peace

474
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 4: with the person you are and the mother you are.

475
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 2: The wife you are.

476
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 4: Would you say you are at peace with your your

477
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 4: perspective and how you mother the type of mother you are.

478
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 4: I'm saying obviously what I see from outside. You know,

479
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 4: it can always be different.

480
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: But would you say that you are at peace.

481
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 4: With the mother you are as you've explained fusing these

482
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: two different perspectives into how your parents your children.

483
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's a very difficult question to be honest,

484
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 5: you know, I would say I'm at peace, yes, but

485
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 5: there are certain times when I'm not sure how my

486
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: children feel about my mother in style. You know, what

487
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 5: I mean is about what I think is best for them.

488
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 5: But it gets very challenging, you know, when you raise

489
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 5: African children in Europe with them be if I look

490
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 5: at ours people in context, like summer comes up and

491
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 5: my daughter wants to wear these shots, you know, not shorts,

492
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 5: short shots, and I'm thinking, you can't wear these short

493
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 5: shots outside the house, you know, And she sort of understands, Okay,

494
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 5: my mom wanted this way. But then there are times

495
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 5: when she feels like she's trapped in this whole Zimbabwean

496
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 5: way of life and sing things and she's thinking she's

497
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 5: never lived there even But why am I being forced

498
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 5: into this?

499
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know what I mean.

500
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 3: So living by that standard when I'm not young yeah.

501
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, So there are times when I'm not sure, Like

502
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 5: when I think we have I denied them an opportunity

503
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 5: to really be open minded and say this short shots

504
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 5: mean nothing. Let me just go with my friends, you know,

505
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 5: because half the time she may feel that she's overdressed

506
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 5: because she's in jeans.

507
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: It's summer and everyone is in these shorts.

508
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 5: And you know, so as much as I am content

509
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 5: from a values perspective, there are times when I feel

510
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 5: pay some bit too tough made.

511
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: I should relax things a.

512
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 5: Bit, you know, and having grown up being told you

513
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 5: have to be in the house by six, and in

514
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 5: the summer year, the sun stets are ten. Who wants

515
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 5: to be in the house at six? But how do

516
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 5: I call my mother at ten o'clock and say my

517
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 5: daughter is out?

518
00:26:59,359 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

519
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 5: So there are those things where you are not sure

520
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 5: whether by really molding them in this way you are

521
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 5: denying them it tries to fully experience the world that

522
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 5: they're living in, if you know what I mean. I

523
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 5: don't know Amanda, being outside and room before you to

524
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 5: a certain extent, I know you don't opportunity to live

525
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 5: on your own before you.

526
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: Got married, you steel that that, and.

527
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: You know, I think, sorry, I will and then Amanda,

528
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 4: you can not in there, but I think I completely relate.

529
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 4: It's like the way you were raised, there's always another

530
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 4: voice that goes with you. It's sitting on your shoulder

531
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: where you have the liberty. Nobody is judging you, nobody

532
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 4: knows what you're doing, not if that makes sense, but you.

533
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: Still have this sort of ah. But so I guess

534
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: it boils down to values.

535
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 4: You're raised with certain values that will be with you,

536
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 4: and I guess that's why children are raised with values right,

537
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 4: because you hope they carry it. It's just a question

538
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 4: of does it serve me now and does it serve

539
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: me in this environment that I am in, And that

540
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: is now having to make the decision for myself. And

541
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 4: I've struggled with different things, different aspects, and even my

542
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 4: husband has been like, you know, no one's looking. I

543
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 4: don't judge you for eggs. So but you feel it

544
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 4: because you've been raised with it. And now it's truly

545
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 4: having to sit with yourself and say who is rumby

546
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 4: separate to anybody else's whether it's the upbringing, whether it

547
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 4: is the environment I'm in which is away from home

548
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: without any expectations from anyone else. Who is roomby and

549
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 4: what is her decision in this moment, And it's hard,

550
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 4: so I completely relate. I don't know about you am

551
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: how yeah, no.

552
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: I you ladies are saying it all. It is very

553
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: tough because I find I even have added laya. My

554
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: child is biracial, so obviously that's also another thing for me.

555
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: I feel because he's gonna be a black man in

556
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 3: the world as well, you know what I mean. And

557
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: sometimes I think to myself, if I make him or

558
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: like the example you brought up with your daughter and

559
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: the shorts. Sorry you're gonna go on about the shorts,

560
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: but like you, the reason you protected her is because

561
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: she's not always going to be in a space where

562
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: people understand the shorts are shorts. You know, there's gonna

563
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: be some spaces where they're like, you know, if she walks,

564
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: if she walks down out at it, you know what

565
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: hav five an, they'll be like, hey, it's sister, you know,

566
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: and she's a young girl, but they will cat call.

567
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: They will, So she needs to understand, Okay, I'm going

568
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: to that space, let me wear this. And it's sad

569
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: that we even have to do that, but you want

570
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: her to have that discernment where she can judge and see.

571
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, maybe in Geneva in the summertime, going out

572
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: with her friends for ice cream, it's okay if she

573
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 3: wears shorts, but she also needs to know they're going

574
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: to be some spaces where unfortunately it's not so open,

575
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: it's not so free, and so I think issue it's, yeah,

576
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 3: the safety issue, it's a you know, so I think

577
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: what you're doing is it might seem tough now or

578
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: might seem like, oh am I blocking her now, but

579
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: you're actually doing her You're doing her favor. It sounds bad,

580
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: but because she'll learn like, oh okay, you know, there's

581
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: spaces and places to do these things. And I think

582
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: that's where I also, even though it's only been months,

583
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: I constantly think about that, like, you know, like in Australia,

584
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: you can do whatever you want. But I can't raise

585
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: a child who thinks they can do whatever they want

586
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: everywhere they are, because when I take them to Zimbabwe,

587
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: it's not going to be like that. You know, when

588
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 3: I take them to Zimbabwe and we're serving food, is

589
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: not going to be the first one to Russian to

590
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: serve himself, he have to wait for us outders and

591
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: things like that, and I think they learn that from

592
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: the home first before they do it outside. So it's

593
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 3: always hard. And Rumbiers bored this up, that we're always

594
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: balancing all these voices, all these thoughts and thinking of

595
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 3: the future and this or not. If my mom was y,

596
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 3: if my dad does yeah, what would I do? And

597
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: like sometimes we get so lost in our thoughts and

598
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: to speak to what you said, we then forget to experience. Yeah,

599
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: because we're so but what do you do?

600
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: What do you honestly do? Yeah?

601
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 5: I think what Roomby just said about my children, I'll

602
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 5: say that's really encouraging because sometimes you're not sure whether

603
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 5: you're doing the right thing or not. But when you

604
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 5: get feedback from people, you didn't realize, Oh, actually I'm

605
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 5: not so bad after all.

606
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah thought.

607
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 5: So last July we went home for the first time.

608
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 5: After we left we were lasting in back with December

609
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen, so it was three and half years and

610
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 5: we went and everybody felt the children had grown physically,

611
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 5: but in terms of who they are, they felt they

612
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 5: were still the same. There's nothing like they're coming from Europe,

613
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 5: the various they we're really trying to speak broken devil

614
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 5: and that kind of thing, you know. So I felt okay,

615
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 5: and if people are even telling me that all your

616
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 5: children are so respectful, they're so grounded, and you know,

617
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 5: so I thought, oh, okay, so.

618
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: I'm doing it.

619
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 4: And you know the other thing, I'm not a mom,

620
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: but I am a teacher and I have students, right,

621
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 4: and you want to do the best for them, but

622
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 4: you also want them to like you. So sometimes when

623
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: you're like, no, you can't do that, they look at

624
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 4: you like you're destroying their life.

625
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: But you're like, I'm doing kill joy, kill joy.

626
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 4: You also want them to feel like, oh, I like

627
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 4: so in moments where a student comes and hugs me,

628
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 4: or like it's excited to see me, or says thank

629
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 4: you so much, room me for the lesson, or like

630
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 4: it's you know, sometimes it can be few and far between,

631
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 4: but like those moments make you feel like, Okay, I'm

632
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 4: not really terrible after all, I'm trying to do the

633
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 4: best for them. So I think people don't realize I

634
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 4: would assume that also as a parent or mother, you

635
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: also want your children to like you. Aside from loving

636
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 4: you and seeing you as a mother.

637
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: That's how I feel.

638
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, that's that's very true.

639
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 5: There's one thing that I just wanted to mention Amand

640
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 5: about raising your children in the dasport For me, the

641
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 5: language issue. That's one thing where I feel I have

642
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 5: totally failed. I don't even know how I failed. But

643
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: my son at least speaks a bit of develop or

644
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 5: he understands everything he tries to speak here and with

645
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 5: my daughter, you can just near and you will never

646
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 5: know what you can say.

647
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: What's that?

648
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 5: And I ask myself, like two olme developed parents, how

649
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 5: did we end up here? And that's one thing that

650
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 5: I can't explain. And that's one of my greatest regrets.

651
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 5: You know. Like I talk about the values being grounded

652
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 5: and being able to go back home fit in talk

653
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 5: with their cousins, but the fact that they can't congress

654
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 5: in Devlap, I find that sometimes it denies them the

655
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 5: opportunity to fully experience Zimbabwe when we go, you know.

656
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: So that's one thing that I wish I could correct

657
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 1: if I had an opportunity. And the thing is as.

658
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 5: Children grow older as well, there's this desire to really

659
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 5: reconnect with their roots. Who am I when I say

660
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 5: I'm Zimbabwe. What are some of the things that really

661
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 5: like define my Zimbabwe. I find that with my son,

662
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 5: he's really trying with Devela. He's listening to South African music.

663
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 5: He's picking slanging here and he's asking me, think, but

664
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 5: what is picking? It's street lingual, you know, And I'm like,

665
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 5: that's not really thinks He's trying, you know, like you know, yes,

666
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 5: that's something that one is to constantly, you know, you

667
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 5: want that at this point, at twenty one, should I

668
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 5: be trying to teach this child in develop or just

669
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 5: saying develo won't take him to heaven, let him be.

670
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think because your son already is showing interest

671
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: in that could be something you guys, just do you

672
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 3: know why not If he's already showing interest, there's a

673
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: love for it. And I think also because I'm a

674
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 3: piano and all this is like super cool at the moment,

675
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 3: why don't you just write the ways? Good? Just write

676
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 3: it teach you know. But for us, when we were

677
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: growing up, we were told like to be as English

678
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 3: as you can. It was almost like and now sometimes

679
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 3: I regret that in terms of you think no, we

680
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 3: should be rooted in if we can, if we should

681
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: be written in our language and our culture. So the

682
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: fact that he's going to turn around and he's keen,

683
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: I think, just pick up and the real lessons why not?

684
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And what do you say, Amanda about this thing?

685
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 5: Like our parents coming out of this post colonial era,

686
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 5: you know, for them, a measure of success a very

687
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 5: smart kid was somebody who could communicate, you know, very

688
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 5: well in English. So for some of us, we thought,

689
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 5: one day, when I have my own kid, you know.

690
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, exactly, yeah.

691
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: And I also wanted them to fit in, Sorry, you

692
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 3: want them to fit in all these countries you mentioned,

693
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: English was key, so they couldn't just go with devel.

694
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: They would have then felt like.

695
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 4: And in the same too, you were working hard raising

696
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 4: children outside of home. You have so many things you're

697
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 4: trying to balance and manage that you would never have

698
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 4: to manage when you're at home in home territory.

699
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: Even language learning.

700
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 4: My parents didn't sit down with me, but like and

701
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 4: they let's learn, Shauna, or let's learn And to this

702
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 4: day I don't speak developed. My dad didn't sit us down.

703
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 4: He wasn't sitting us down, and be like, let's talk

704
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 4: and develop. And the schools they sent us to they

705
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 4: taught Shanna, So I learned Shauna.

706
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: Do you get what I'm saying?

707
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 4: So they could for granted that I could learn the

708
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 4: language at school the environment, but when you're not at home,

709
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 4: you're dealing with all other aspects and dynamics of you know,

710
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 4: whether it's administrations with visas and whatnot, or like making

711
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 4: sure it's a complete So you need to, I think,

712
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 4: give yourself a bit of grace. Yes, there's only so

713
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 4: much you can do as one here.

714
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you gave your kids so much experiences and

715
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: other things.

716
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: You know.

717
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 3: Language will come around at some point.

718
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: That's my hope.

719
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 3: Do you ever feel mom guilt? Have you ever been

720
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 3: mom shamed? Especially as someone who has lived in other

721
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 3: spaces and I'm not Simbablo raised your kids and other

722
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: spaces that you're not doing the right thing. I think

723
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: you mentioned when you're in America. That's a whole different book.

724
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: And did you get some mom shaming or feel any

725
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: mom guilt? And if so, how did you cope?

726
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

727
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 5: I would say I felt the mom shaming a lot

728
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 5: in America when people have certain ideas, like of how

729
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 5: your child should should be behaving, and even their physical looks.

730
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 5: You know. I remember my daughter was a bit on

731
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 5: the small side, smaller side, and there were people would say, oh,

732
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 5: why is she so tiny? And I'm like, I'm not good.

733
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 5: I mean, how do I explain that? But there's this

734
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 5: insinuation that perhaps she's not eating well or that you know,

735
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 5: you're not doing your everything is the matter?

736
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: Why is your son so skin? You know, those kinds

737
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: of questions.

738
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 5: And I felt really, you know, and I constantly hate

739
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 5: to explain myself or just you know. So that's the

740
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 5: space that I felt it. And then in terms of

741
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 5: mum gills, of course you feel it, you know when

742
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 5: you think am I doing enough? How should I have

743
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 5: responded to the situation? Have I given my children at

744
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 5: the best? I think I have felt it, especially as

745
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 5: I tried to balance my professional career, like in the

746
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 5: first few years when you're really trying to build yourself

747
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 5: up and then you have children that you have to

748
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 5: take care of. So I felt that I was more

749
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 5: focused on my career and I wasn't really there for

750
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 5: the kids. But one moment that I remember that really

751
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 5: hit hard was when my daughter was in grade two

752
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 5: or something, and I was looking through their school year

753
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 5: book and then I saw they had featured Hey in

754
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 5: cute little courts and they asked it, why was your

755
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 5: homework not signed? And she said because my brother doesn't

756
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 5: have a signature. And the teachers thought, oh, this is

757
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 5: so cute, and for me, I thought, this is not cute.

758
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 5: Your brother shouldn't be signing your homework way way mine.

759
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 5: That's when me that perhaps I'm not really there for her.

760
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 5: And she now looks up to her brother to say,

761
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 5: will you please help? But the brother didn't have a signature,

762
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 5: you know. So that was really a light about moment

763
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 5: for me where I said, in this gene of mother,

764
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 5: would have I really done my best? Have I failed

765
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 5: my kids? And I would say for my son as well,

766
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 5: he has his own share of challenges. Way home, for

767
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 5: the side I was traveling and that kind of thing,

768
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 5: you know. So I got to a point where I said, God,

769
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 5: I think I need a break. I need to refocus.

770
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 5: You know, I have gotten the side right, but this

771
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 5: other side, I feel the things that are lacking. I

772
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 5: don't even know what my children are eating. I have

773
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 5: entrusted this to another person. I trust them of course,

774
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 5: but they're not the mother I know what I mean,

775
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 5: So I you know, so when we moved to the US,

776
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 5: that was the moment for me when I thought, this

777
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 5: is my answer to reset. And even as I did

778
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 5: that research, I had this whole grand plan of how

779
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 5: I was going to instill order. I was going to

780
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 5: make sure people eat right. I wasn't in a rage

781
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 5: to get a job. I was just going to be

782
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 5: a mother, be a wife, and you know, so to

783
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 5: a certain extent, I felt I was dealing with that guilt.

784
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 5: But of course, after two months, I mean, the children

785
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 5: of their lives, their husband did, settled their work, and

786
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: then I'm like, what am I doing with my life?

787
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 4: Like such an interesting perspective because I think our parents' generation,

788
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 4: you know, I think mothers, it was so normal for

789
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 4: mothers to make their lives about the family and children

790
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 4: to such an extent, and then when the nest gets

791
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 4: empty emptiness syndrome, it hits especially mothers very very hard,

792
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: because they've I think they were raised at a time

793
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 4: where it was like, you sacrifice for the children, and

794
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: I think seeing and witnessing that, we're like, oh, I

795
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: would still like to be myself and still have a

796
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: profession and then obviously, as you've explained, that comes with

797
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 4: its own set of challenges that that that that come

798
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 4: with that. So it's such a such an interesting thing

799
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 4: to navigate. And I know you're still with you know,

800
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 4: Jerome at home, but how how do you balance that?

801
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: And even how long are you home with him? How

802
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 4: long do you you know, all those decisions, how did you?

803
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think for me right now, I'm

804
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: still the think of it because I'm deciding how often

805
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: I when I start going to work again, how often

806
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 3: I'm going to start going what that's going to do

807
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: for my career because I felt like I've really fought

808
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: hard for my career to get to where I am,

809
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: and then now I'm like, I don't want to be

810
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 3: left behind. But I feel like also society almost rules

811
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 3: out women when we do have kids. You know, I

812
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 3: sometimes think when I'm not in a meeting like this, Aman,

813
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: there's at home with the kids, like as now, they

814
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: just you know, just an afterthoughts. You know, they're gonna

815
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: even when I go back to work, is it going

816
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: to be a welcoming space or are they just going

817
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 3: to box me and put me in a corner somewhere.

818
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 3: You know, she's just a mom, you know. So it's

819
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 3: all these things that women, I think we face that

820
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 3: no one can give you a template for. And I

821
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 3: think maybe even in some ways even more than our

822
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 3: own mother's experience, because we do want to be more

823
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 3: career driven in some ways, and they're now it's like

824
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 3: how to balance the two, you know. For you, you

825
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 3: were like you had a reset and you felt but

826
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: even then after two months, you're like, you know, it's

827
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: so tough because our world is constantly changing, and I

828
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 3: think each generation things change, so the parenting also changes

829
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 3: and the style of parenting changes. So yeah, and I

830
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: mean to see how I'm going to balance it, you know,

831
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: to get back to Europe basically.

832
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

833
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 4: And I think also society has this idea of what

834
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 4: a mother should look like. My friend, I visited a

835
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 4: friend last night actually, and she we watched an episode

836
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 4: of Working Moms. It's a show on Netflix, and they're

837
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 4: obviously trying to tackle the issue of you know, moms

838
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 4: going back to work, working and all that kind of thing,

839
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 4: and you really realize society has an idea of what

840
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 4: mothers should be, or working woman should be. It's very

841
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 4: hard for society to bring and bridge the gap of

842
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 4: the two. We can't see it to understand that. But

843
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 4: I also wanted to ask you score. You mentioned something

844
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 4: about when you were in DC and then when you

845
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 4: were home, You're like, in my home, it's Zimbabwe, it's

846
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: not Washington, it's not America, and it was it peaked

847
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 4: thought in my head, and I thought I'd save it

848
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 4: for this question, which is how important is it for

849
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 4: your children to be tied to the Zimbabwean roots? And

850
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 4: as you mentioned that example, I thought, maybe she's preparing

851
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 4: them for when they are going to have to go

852
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 4: back home and visit, so there's no shock factor like

853
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 4: oh what is this place and why is it so different?

854
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 4: So how important is it for you that they are

855
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 4: tied to their roots and how do you instill that

856
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 4: in other ways aside from some of the things we've

857
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 4: talked about.

858
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: The answer is I don't know. Really.

859
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: I love that answer, It's honest, yes.

860
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, Because for me, I feel like identity plays a

861
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 5: huge part in terms of how you navigate life, how

862
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 5: you live and that kind of thing. So it's very

863
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 5: important for me that they have that connection to Zimbabwe,

864
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 5: that they understand the culture, they understand their teeple, they

865
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 5: understand the value system. What's really important to us as Zimbabweans.

866
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 5: You know, the spirit of Wundu that I talk about,

867
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 5: So I think that's very important, you know the importance

868
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,479
Speaker 5: of hard work and all that. But at the same time,

869
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 5: I feel that for children that are living in this

870
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 5: global village, they shouldn't be too too tight to Zimbabwe

871
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 5: such that they can't fully experience what this global village

872
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 5: has to offer. I have a friend of mine who

873
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 5: is American Jamaica and married to Zimbabwan and I asked

874
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 5: the question a few years ago. I said, are you

875
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 5: raising your children is Americans or is Zimbabwean? And she

876
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 5: said to me, I'm raising them for eternity. Shanna is

877
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 5: not going to take them to heaven. And for me,

878
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 5: I thought this was really profound and I've sort of

879
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 5: aligned myself to that kind of thinking to say, what

880
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 5: is it that these children need to thrive in this world?

881
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 5: Is the zimbabwan what will propel them for success? And

882
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 5: the question is yes or no? You know, like they

883
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 5: pick and choose what's they from their being Zimbabwean and

884
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 5: then mix with what they're getting at the other side.

885
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 5: But in terms of the value system, the spirit of

886
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 5: a wuntu that for me, it's very important. I would

887
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 5: want them to go to Blawayo and not be lost.

888
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 5: You know, they should know. Like so last year when

889
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,959
Speaker 5: we in July, we went home and for the first time,

890
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 5: I said, I wanted them to experience Zimbabwe from a

891
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 5: torrist perspective, because the Zimbabwe that they see in the media,

892
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 5: where there is pervert, where they's suffering, everyone is great,

893
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 5: people look sickly. I said, that's not the Zimbabwe that

894
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: I want you to know, because when you have that

895
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 5: mindset or picture of Zimbabwe, you'll never love it and

896
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 5: you'll never want to be associated with it. So I said,

897
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 5: I want to show you a different kind of Zimbabwe.

898
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 5: So we went there, stayed in a very nice place

899
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 5: where they had WiFi are limited, you know, that's how

900
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 5: this generation works.

901
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 3: And then I say, yeah.

902
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 5: So I will take you to this all these nice

903
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 5: places so that you can appreciate Zimbabwe's beauty and what

904
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 5: it has to offer. Take them out for breakfast at

905
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 5: food Lovers, you know, because they're thinking you're just eating papenomlia,

906
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 5: and I'm saying that's not all.

907
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: This is not, you know.

908
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 5: And and and then after the we were there for

909
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 5: two weeks. After that, my son said, I try I

910
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 5: could come and live here. And I thought, okay, that's something.

911
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 5: So he knows that this is an option that he has.

912
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 5: Because the fear that we have as parents that are

913
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 5: raising children abroad is if one day, for some reason,

914
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 5: my child had to go back and live in this

915
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 5: where do they even start? Yes, and they even survived.

916
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 5: But the fact that he said I could actually come back,

917
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 5: you know, So this summer I said, okay, you guys

918
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 5: are ready to get your licenses, the two of you,

919
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 5: I'm shipping you to zim for six weeks just for

920
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 5: the two or you figure things out and you know,

921
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 5: and we'll see after that experience whether they really you know.

922
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 5: So I don't know whether I answer your question really

923
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 5: is a long winded way, but it's just trying to

924
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 5: say it's important to remain connected, but not to be

925
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 5: stuck in that kind of you know, appreciate the beauty

926
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 5: what Zimbabwe gives you in terms of molding your character

927
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 5: into a full global citizen.

928
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

929
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 4: I think you said it beautifully, so beautifully and for

930
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 4: you and how important is it for little Jerome to

931
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 4: be tied to well, you tell.

932
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 3: Me if I passed the test, but I do. It

933
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 3: is important to me, and I think also I don't

934
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: want to have similar to school. I don't want to

935
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 3: have a petty party like poverty exists everywhere, and I

936
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: think all of us now understand, even in these established countries,

937
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 3: there's always that poor neighborhood.

938
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: There's always that.

939
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: So it's not like I don't want them to just

940
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 3: think him to just think Africa is equal to you know,

941
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 3: or even if we're sending stuff home, I don't want

942
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 3: it to come from.

943
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 2: A poverty space, you know.

944
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 3: I wanted to still be like, you know, I have

945
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 3: more than enough I can give, you know, being a

946
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: global citizen, having a moon to you know, if I

947
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 3: can help, I should assist, but not like in a

948
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 3: with that poverty undertone or savior undertone, you know. So

949
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: I think for me, that's what I hope I am

950
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 3: part because I think it is important to have those ties.

951
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 3: But it's definitely important to also operate in the world

952
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 3: we're now we're now living in, and I think language

953
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: is a big one and my son is also German,

954
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 3: So what try to teach German.

955
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: So there's.

956
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 3: Good luck to me to do this ten years time

957
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 3: and see where we're going. But all to say that,

958
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 3: I do think if you can pick and choose, why

959
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 3: not you know, like if you want the buuntu but

960
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: you don't want certain aspects like you know, girl child

961
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 3: don't go to school or whatever it is that sometimes

962
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: in Zimbabwe you find it's our kids these days. I

963
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 3: think because of social media and everything much more, they

964
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 3: got much more information on hand than we realize. So

965
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 3: I think sometimes you do have to give them autonomy

966
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: to make their own decisions and hope that the way

967
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 3: you've parented them is enough to propel them to make

968
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 3: their own decision and realize, Okay, you know this this

969
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 3: works here and this doesn't work there, And I think

970
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 3: the six weeks will be keen to find out how

971
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 3: they survived. Yeah, anyway, this has been such a beautiful

972
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 3: episode and we can go on and on. Motherhood is

973
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 3: so layered and in no way, shape or form can

974
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 3: we finish it in one episode. But we are so

975
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: grateful for your time school. We're so grateful for your energy,

976
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 3: your presence. It was amazing to talk about motherhood with you.

977
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: Are there any causes or projects that you are, you know,

978
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 3: currently involved in that you'd want to share on our platform.

979
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 5: Nothing very active, but I would say that I'm passionate

980
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 5: about ensuring that the girl child is the power opportunities,

981
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 5: you know, like as much as.

982
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: What the boy gets.

983
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 5: So I'm at a family level, I'm supporting a few

984
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 5: girls to go through a high school. So that's what

985
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 5: I'm doing because I feel that there's so many girls

986
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 5: out there with a lot of potential their girl living

987
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 5: that I learned with that way very smart, but because

988
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 5: they didn't get the opportunities that I got, their lives

989
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 5: tend out differently. So I would really want to ensure

990
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 5: that the girls that are in my immediate fee of influence,

991
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 5: you know, they really get to achieve the most in life.

992
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful and honestly, thank you.

993
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 4: This has been so heartwarming to hear you talk about this.

994
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 4: I think we may come back to you, Ciscore, like

995
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 4: you know, down the line and be.

996
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, raising these kids any streets, Yeah you have

997
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 3: you have.

998
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 4: The experience and rightly said, like all the countries we've

999
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 4: been to with your family.

1000
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being a part of this podcast.

1001
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time and for being

1002
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 4: so open and sharing. We truly truly appreciate everything, and yeah,

1003
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 4: we wish you well in twenty twenty three and thank

1004
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 4: you once again. And to our listeners, thank you so

1005
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 4: much for joining us. As always, you can communicate with

1006
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 4: us where it's Layered on Instagram, It's layered Pod on Twitter,

1007
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 4: We're on Facebook, We're on TikTok, or you can email us.

1008
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: It's layered Pod at gmail dot com. Thank you so much,

1009
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 2: and we will see you on the next episode.

1010
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 3: By you use your hand, they will tear you up

1011
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 3: like a paper too.

1012
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 2: On the nose. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah