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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Victoria Police. Are

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Speaker 1: you made for more search police careers to find out?

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited this week to have our first Australian

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Speaker 1: softball representative on the podcast. Ilsa Wakeling was a part

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Speaker 1: of the Australian softball squad in the early to mid

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Speaker 1: two thousands and played in the Italian Professional League before

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Speaker 1: making an incredible return to the side in her forties

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Speaker 1: after giving birth to her son. She has transferred her

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Speaker 1: elite mindset into the workplace, working with Victoria Police since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, currently an acting superintendent before returning

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Speaker 1: to the Critical Incident Response Team as an inspector. Ilsa

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Speaker 1: is incredibly disciplined and shares some awesome lessons she has

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Speaker 1: learned around leadership, fear and looking after your body and mind.

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Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it, Elsa, Welcome to the Female

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Speaker 1: Athlete Project.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Chloe.

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Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to tapping into some of your

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Speaker 1: incredible experience that you'd have You've had a across both

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Speaker 1: careers in a sporting context but also your work with

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Speaker 1: Victoria Police. But can you take us back to Elsa

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Speaker 1: as a little kid and describe what you were like.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely as a little kid. I was one of four children.

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Speaker 2: I was the youngest, and a thing that we'd quite

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Speaker 2: often talk about with sibling rivalry as I was growing up.

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Speaker 2: So you always demanded or wanted the attention of your parents,

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Speaker 2: and so I would do whatever I could to get

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Speaker 2: that attention. And all of my sisters played softball, which

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Speaker 2: is where we were brought into the sport. My dad

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Speaker 2: played baseball, Mom played softball, Mum was pretty much the

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Speaker 2: manager and jacket ball trades, and Dad ended up being

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Speaker 2: our softball coach, and I think we were really drawn

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Speaker 2: into the sport quite early. Loved a lot of variety

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Speaker 2: of sports as well, but I think this is where

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Speaker 2: my passion was. So to draw that attention, I had

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Speaker 2: to figure out how to actually be the best in

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Speaker 2: my family or be the best to get the praise

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Speaker 2: and accolades from my folks. So that that sort of

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Speaker 2: was the beginning of how my softball career started. We

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Speaker 2: didn't really have a lot of with my age, We

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Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of opportunity to see how we

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Speaker 2: can develop and how we could learn, So we used

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Speaker 2: to read a lot through books. My dad and I

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Speaker 2: to understand how to actually, you know, pitch. For example,

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Speaker 2: I was a pitcher, so to learn how to pitch,

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Speaker 2: we'd read through the book, trial it and see how

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Speaker 2: it went. So it was a trial and error sort

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Speaker 2: of situation. Then know the fortunate opportunity, as I do

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Speaker 2: nowadays just jump on the internet and find out whatever

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Speaker 2: you need and how the grip balls and all that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff. So it was quite a challenging time,

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Speaker 2: but at the same time it was a really great

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Speaker 2: learning opportunity and it was very much a textbook style

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Speaker 2: that I had and growing up through you know, my

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Speaker 2: teen years, I played a few different varieties of sport

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Speaker 2: and again I just always was drawn back to softball

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Speaker 2: and at the time was not was not even aware,

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Speaker 2: and I think more so because I was a country girl.

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Speaker 2: I lived in Ballarat, we weren't aware of what opportunities

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Speaker 2: there were in sport, and especially in softball. I didn't

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Speaker 2: know how fake could actually go in a career with softball,

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Speaker 2: So it was more just the passion that I really enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: And by the time I was you know, I played

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Speaker 2: all club levels, never played state in my teens, and

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Speaker 2: by the time I got to my twenties, I was

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Speaker 2: asked if I were a trial for state, and I

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Speaker 2: ended up striking out most of our state players, which

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Speaker 2: was not expected, but we had developed our cells data

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Speaker 2: and I through that time, and admittedly I did trial

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Speaker 2: for state in under sixteen and didn't make it. Felt

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Speaker 2: that I was good enough but didn't know what I

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Speaker 2: was missing. So Dad and I just kept continually learning

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Speaker 2: and progressing in the sport. So by the time I actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, was playing against state players, realized that I

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Speaker 2: actually had an ability there. So I made my first

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Speaker 2: state team at twenty threes under twenty threes, which was

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Speaker 2: pretty cool, quite laid on in my career, but at

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Speaker 2: the same time, I think realistically it allowed me to

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Speaker 2: still have that passion but probably get all my schooling done.

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Speaker 2: I started working at a law firm at the time

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Speaker 2: and really wanted to engage in this softball side of

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Speaker 2: things and see what could come of it. So after

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Speaker 2: playing under twenty threes, the next year, I played my

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Speaker 2: first state team. And that's when you had scouts that

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Speaker 2: were at our games and observing some of the stats

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Speaker 2: that I would see, and I got scouted straight away

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Speaker 2: had the opportunity to play over in Italy. That same

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Speaker 2: year I made our Australian squads the AIS squads, and

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Speaker 2: it really took off from there, and that's when I

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Speaker 2: really discovered the opportunities that were there for the sport,

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Speaker 2: but at the same time sport in general. The opportunity

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Speaker 2: to be able to have sport take me around the world,

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Speaker 2: play against other countries and see how they develop and

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Speaker 2: lead their teams and how they implement their strategies and

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Speaker 2: ways of thinking. So I felt it was a really

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Speaker 2: great opportunity to play overseas. I probably sacrificed a little

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Speaker 2: bit of Australian opportunity to play overseas, but I felt

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Speaker 2: that it was something that would develop me in who

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Speaker 2: I am as a person as well, living in a

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Speaker 2: different country and really trying to nut out all those

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Speaker 2: issues that you probably wouldn't realize unless you're an athlete

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Speaker 2: that you're going into a new country you don't speak

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Speaker 2: their language. Your coach at the time was Cuban. He

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Speaker 2: didn't speak Italian either, and navigating through life at the

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Speaker 2: same time, as you know, playing a sport, being paid

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Speaker 2: to play it professionally and having to perform every week.

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Speaker 2: So it was a good chance for me to learn

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Speaker 2: the importance of time management, the importance of the professionalism.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just about that you got paid to play

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Speaker 2: a sport. It was about all these other skill sets

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Speaker 2: and all these other values that really came around it.

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Speaker 2: To understand who I was as a professional. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, what qualities I can take from that

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Speaker 2: and take back to whether it's my state teams, whether

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Speaker 2: it was to the oddie teams, or as now in

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Speaker 2: my career and policing.

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Speaker 1: There's some really interesting themes in there that I'd love

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Speaker 1: to kind of touch on. Let's start with this concept

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Speaker 1: of that wanting desperately the approval and attention of your parents.

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Speaker 1: I think it's something where sport is often a vehicle

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Speaker 1: for kids who want to kind of prove their worth

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Speaker 1: in a way, and sport is off in a way

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Speaker 1: of saying like, hey, I'm here, I want you to

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Speaker 1: recognize me. I'm trying as hard as I possibly can.

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Speaker 1: Where do you think that came from for you?

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Speaker 2: I would looking back on it now, I would definitely

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Speaker 2: say it was probably a setup of an imposter syndrome.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to feel good enough or valued or that

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Speaker 2: I was good at something. And recognized for it my

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Speaker 2: dad and I. You know, I love my parents. My

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Speaker 2: parents gave me the greatest upbringing. I was very fortunate.

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Speaker 2: They had great values. They're great people. And I always

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Speaker 2: look at it and think, what my dad knows is

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Speaker 2: what he was taught as well, so three he s

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Speaker 2: bought and also his work. He was also in the army,

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Speaker 2: so you know, we have somewhat at para paramilitary lifestyle

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Speaker 2: when we're growing up. And I guess because there was

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Speaker 2: four of us, it really was about how do you

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Speaker 2: get the attention of mum and dad when you're the youngest.

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Speaker 2: And I look back on it now and recognize that,

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Speaker 2: you know a lot of things that I did. I

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Speaker 2: remember saying when I first wore the Green and gold,

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Speaker 2: I remember saying, you know, someone said to me, are

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Speaker 2: you excited? You're happy about And I said, I just

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Speaker 2: want my dad to be proud, And it was true,

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Speaker 2: because I do want him to be proud. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, I'd lost the true value of what

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Speaker 2: I was doing and appreciating why I was doing it.

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Speaker 2: So it did take me back to understand the importance

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Speaker 2: of representing your country bringing out the best version of me.

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Speaker 2: Really wanting to create an environment that allowed me to succeed,

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Speaker 2: but also working through that with the team psychologists to

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Speaker 2: understand where imposter syndrome fits into that, the value part

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Speaker 2: of it, the perfection part of it. And there's still

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Speaker 2: things that I work on now that were things that

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Speaker 2: I worked on when I was twenty two to twenty three. I'm,

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Speaker 2: you know, forty five now and I'm still working on

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Speaker 2: the same the same things. I'm enhancing, improving and getting

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Speaker 2: better through it. But you're right, it is something that

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Speaker 2: you know. It sets in purely because I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to be something that my parents would be proud of.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, regardless of whether I'm played sport

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Speaker 2: or where I am in my policing career, I know

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Speaker 2: they would have been proud of me. But it was

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Speaker 2: that inner monologue that I kept telling myself. So probably

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Speaker 2: learning and developing through that inner monologue to understand and

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Speaker 2: accept vulnerabilities, understand and accept success and failure or as

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Speaker 2: I say, triumph and disaster, and be able to move

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Speaker 2: forward through those.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting that term of the inner monologue. It

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Speaker 1: takes me back to being a little kid. There's definitely

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Speaker 1: some parts of your story that really resonated with me,

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Speaker 1: like I was probably quite similar. I still am a

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Speaker 1: real perfectionist it in a lot of ways. And I

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Speaker 1: was doing a cross country when I was about ten

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Speaker 1: eleven years old, so still pretty young. And when I

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Speaker 1: was eleven, I won national cross country and so kind

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Speaker 1: of backed up did all this training, Like Dad would

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Speaker 1: drive around once the sun had gone down, so I'd

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Speaker 1: have to come home from school, do my homework the

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Speaker 1: sun and go down. Dad would follow me in the

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Speaker 1: car so that the lights could light up the way

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Speaker 1: of where I was running to do my training. And

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Speaker 1: made it back to Nationals as a twelve year old,

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Speaker 1: and Mum traveled with me to add A and I

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Speaker 1: just had this inner monologue that if I don't win again,

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Speaker 1: my whole family are going to be so disappointed in

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Speaker 1: me and they won't see me in the same way.

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Speaker 1: So I woke up the morning of the race and

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Speaker 1: I said to Mum, I've been vomiting. I'm so sick,

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Speaker 1: I can't run.

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Speaker 2: And I hadn't.

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Speaker 1: I was completely fine, but I had almost psyched myself

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Speaker 1: out that I was so afraid of letting people down

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Speaker 1: that I told myself this story that they were going to,

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Speaker 1: like I guess, lose the identity of who I was

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Speaker 1: as a person.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yep, that's exactly right. And it does become

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Speaker 2: quite challenging and debilitating because you do you create that

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Speaker 2: narrative in your own mind. Whereas it wouldn't matter what

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Speaker 2: I did. My parents are always going to be proud

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Speaker 2: of me, you know. And I feel the same way

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Speaker 2: about my son. You know, he's a funny young boy.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, you know, when he does

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Speaker 2: things wrong, we talk through it, we find out learn

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Speaker 2: what have we learned from it, and what are we

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Speaker 2: going to do about it? And it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: he does, I'm always going to be proud of him.

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Speaker 2: So I know my parents would have been exact same thing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, inner monologue really did become debilitating at times,

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Speaker 2: and I find it's great now to be able to

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Speaker 2: have that reset, to be able to reflect on that

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Speaker 2: and understand even now in some of the behaviors that

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Speaker 2: I have and why I have those behaviors, which have

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Speaker 2: drawn all the way back to my teen days.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that I wanted to touch on was this

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Speaker 1: idea of kind of being a late bloomer in terms

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Speaker 1: of your state representation. I think there's so many kids

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Speaker 1: that kind of go through those teenage years and they

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Speaker 1: try as hard as they possibly can, and they might

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Speaker 1: not crack it for whatever reason. But this concept that

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Speaker 1: you were an adult by the time you made that

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Speaker 1: first state team, Like, what do you think you learned

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Speaker 1: throughout that process.

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Speaker 2: I know what I learned when I applied for the

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Speaker 2: under sixteen team and didn't make it that I realized

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Speaker 2: I wasn't resilient. I realized that I didn't have the

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Speaker 2: good processes behind me to accept failure. So my way

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Speaker 2: of dealing with something like that, that type of failure,

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Speaker 2: is to never put myself in that vonderable position again.

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Speaker 2: By the time I got a little bit older, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have as much fear, which usually you'd think about

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Speaker 2: it and think that children are fearless, and as you

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Speaker 2: grow older, you developed that fear. Whereas getting into my twenties,

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Speaker 2: I still had certain fears, but I felt that I

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Speaker 2: was a little bit more confident in who I was

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Speaker 2: and that it was okay if things weren't exactly right

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Speaker 2: things went perfect. It's something that I think is still developing.

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Speaker 2: I think I specifically understood the difference between what I

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Speaker 2: was like as a twenty three year old to when

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Speaker 2: I went back to softball at forty and played for

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Speaker 2: Australia again, those differences were incredible because I really understood

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Speaker 2: how powerful it was to not live in fear. At

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Speaker 2: the age of twenty three, I still I had developed

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Speaker 2: it a little bit where I wasn't as vulnerable. Resilience

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Speaker 2: was building. By the time I'm forty. The resilience was

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Speaker 2: built so much that my theory was, well, if I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to do I get another three people in

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Speaker 2: the dugout, in the dugout that are ready to step

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Speaker 2: in at any point, and that's not a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: Back when I was twenty three, that somewhat was a

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Speaker 2: little bit daunting, because I think someone else can step

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Speaker 2: into my place, Whereas when I was forty, I was thinking,

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Speaker 2: you know what, good for me because I've probably only

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Speaker 2: got four innings in me rather than a whole seven

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Speaker 2: eating game, so it would actually be beneficial. So I see,

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Speaker 2: resilience had been built at that time. I see the

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Speaker 2: fear of failure was not a concern to me. I

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Speaker 2: was prepared to be vulnerable. I remember, and I'm probably

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Speaker 2: jumping ahead here but I remember going back at the

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Speaker 2: age of forty and the coach staying to me after

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Speaker 2: the first game we played. We played against Italy, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of good for me because I was familiar

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Speaker 2: with the Italian style of play because I played over there.

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Speaker 2: But coming back into that environment, he said to me

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Speaker 2: after that game. We did lose two to one, which

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Speaker 2: was okay, but I still played a cracker of a game.

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Speaker 2: And he said to me, also, how after thirteen years

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Speaker 2: of not playing for Australia, could you come in and

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Speaker 2: play a game like that? And I said to him,

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Speaker 2: I don't have any fear. You know, I got to

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Speaker 2: work and at the time that environment was different, that

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Speaker 2: things could be a life and death situation. I go

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Speaker 2: to sport and I love this sport. I'm here because

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Speaker 2: I enjoy it. I'm playing in a team of Australian

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Speaker 2: representatives that want to be here, have the same drive

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Speaker 2: and passion as me, and I just want to win.

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Speaker 2: And whether that means that I'm standing on the plate

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Speaker 2: throwing the pitch, or whether I'm standing in the dugout

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Speaker 2: participating as a team player watching my team, I'm still

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Speaker 2: participating it and I'm still part of that win, So

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's interesting to see that transition as

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Speaker 2: a team of completely being in fear to my twenties,

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Speaker 2: of overcoming a little bit of that and understanding that

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Speaker 2: I need to actually provide self opportunity to develop, and

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Speaker 2: then as a forty year old feelis absolutely feel us.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Can you give us a bit of

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Speaker 1: insight into softball in Australia. It's been a sport that

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Speaker 1: has been in and out of the Olympics and I

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Speaker 1: imagine that that probably has impacted it, particularly as you've

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Speaker 1: been involved through the sports throughout your career in terms

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Speaker 1: of funding, media coverage, resourcing things like that when it's

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Speaker 1: been an Olympic sport versus not being an Olympic sport.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The biggest challenge that I always found is softball,

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Speaker 2: and this is probably more of an individual perspective, is

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Speaker 2: coming from a country background. To get good coaching and opportunity,

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Speaker 2: you needed to be in Melbourne. As mentioned, coming to

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Speaker 2: playing softball in my twenties meant that I would move

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Speaker 2: to Melbourne and relocate down here to play for Australia.

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Speaker 2: Back then, we would pay a levy. So, yeah, you've

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Speaker 2: been nominated in the Australian squad. Now here's your levy

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Speaker 2: that you need to pay. You would still get supported,

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Speaker 2: and you'd still go away. The girls would go away

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Speaker 2: to international series and you know you get per daem,

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Speaker 2: your trips are funded, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: you're still still paying a levity to play for your country.

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Speaker 2: That blew my mind, and I guess that's probably where

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Speaker 2: I look at a lot of other sports that do

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Speaker 2: have a lot of funding behind it and can appreciate

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Speaker 2: that they've got that support. But I think it also

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Speaker 2: afforded us to keep branded. It afforded me to understand

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Speaker 2: the importance of still having something else outside of my sport,

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Speaker 2: which is why my sporting career did come into it,

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Speaker 2: because so my policing career came into it because you know,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to still strive for what I wanted to

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Speaker 2: achieve in my career and I always wanted to be

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Speaker 2: in policing, so it still allowed me to jump into

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Speaker 2: that space watching when I played in it. It was

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Speaker 2: in the early two thousands, and you know, I did

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Speaker 2: strive to want to be in that Olympic team. Never

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Speaker 2: made the Olympics, but it was a strive to you know,

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Speaker 2: want to do that. But unfortunately my last year in Italy,

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Speaker 2: I ended up getting an ankle injury. I broke my ankle.

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Speaker 2: My achilles was two tight, so instead of that going

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Speaker 2: it was my ankle, which put me out for the

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Speaker 2: rest of my season over there. And so when I

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Speaker 2: came back, I rehabed it, got back in, played a

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Speaker 2: national series here and then couldn't go back in and

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Speaker 2: then decided I'd apply for the Police force and see

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Speaker 2: how that went. Before I knew it was a transition.

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Speaker 2: Within six months and I was in the academy. The

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Speaker 2: funding itself with softball has been really interesting to watch

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Speaker 2: over the years, and watching us go in and out,

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Speaker 2: as you say, of Olympic Games has been really challenging

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Speaker 2: as well, and you can see the change of the teams.

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Speaker 2: You see the people that are in the teams. You know,

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Speaker 2: we had a really strong two thousand, a really strong

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Speaker 2: two thousand for two thousand and eight. That were great years.

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Speaker 2: And to be able to make an Australian team or

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Speaker 2: sit in the squad in that era was just unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: And I remember standing the first time I played for

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Speaker 2: Australia and looking down the line and seeing the people

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Speaker 2: that are standing next to me and just being absolutely

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Speaker 2: blown away that I got that opportunity. I had Tenure

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Speaker 2: Harding standing next to me, I had Nat Wood standing

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Speaker 2: next to me, and one of my long term friends,

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Speaker 2: Natalie Tickhams, she was also in the team, and that

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Speaker 2: was just so inspiring. But that just simply wasn't that

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Speaker 2: funding there to keep people like that around. So they

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Speaker 2: did play back to back Olympics, but then you know,

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's back out of the Olympics,

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Speaker 2: and then all the girls strive for then is your

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Speaker 2: World Championships with doesn't give you the same headline, doesn't

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Speaker 2: give you the same wrap around that sporting context. So

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Speaker 2: it really suffered a lot when it was withdrawn, and

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Speaker 2: you know, again it's with rawn. And I really feel

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Speaker 2: for the girls because I work so hard currently watching

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Speaker 2: them when I was in my forties, you know, watching

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Speaker 2: them work so hard to get there and then not

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Speaker 2: get that next opportunity in another four years is just heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's not a lot of sports that have

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Speaker 2: to suffer that.

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Speaker 1: I'm still like thinking about this concept of you coming

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Speaker 1: back at forty and just killing it playing for your country.

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Speaker 1: Have you watched Lauren Jackson's return to basketball at all,

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Speaker 1: the way that she kind of had some time off

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Speaker 1: and was forced to retire from her body and she's

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Speaker 1: come back. I feel like there's some real parallels in

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Speaker 1: this sense of perspective that you can have at that

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Speaker 1: point in your life. That sounds like it's really quite liberating,

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Speaker 1: that feeling of going back and playing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and I can really see where she's come

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Speaker 2: from in wanting to do that, because it is somewhat

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Speaker 2: your identity. I know that my sport, even though I

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Speaker 2: played it as a very young child in the outfield

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Speaker 2: pick and daisies and not really participating, oh through to

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Speaker 2: representing Australia, you know, I it is a part of

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Speaker 2: who I am. Any involvement that you can get when

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Speaker 2: you're not playing, you know, That's why I became a director,

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Speaker 2: That's why I wanted to be a specialist coach. That's

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Speaker 2: why I ended up being an assistant coach, because you

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Speaker 2: just wanted to continue to give back to that sport

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Speaker 2: that you absolutely loved and had passion about. So when

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Speaker 2: I watched someone like Lauren come back and I'd been

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Speaker 2: involved a little bit through my ex partner, Wake's husband.

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Speaker 2: I was involved in basketball, so I had a fairly

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Speaker 2: decent understanding of the culture around basketball. And what I

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Speaker 2: really appreciated in watching the basketball culture is that the

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Speaker 2: men and women really supported one another. And I know that.

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Speaker 2: You know, my former husband was quite supportive of Lauren

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Speaker 2: in her career and when she came back, it was

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Speaker 2: quite inspiring. And what I really love now is seeing

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Speaker 2: other sports as well, like you know, you've got the

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Speaker 2: soccer and the Matilda's when they've got their kids on

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Speaker 2: the sideline. Just seeing those sort of environments and that

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Speaker 2: was one of the inspirations for myself at forty is

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Speaker 2: my son was four at the time and he used

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Speaker 2: to call softball golf ball. But him coming along and

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Speaker 2: having photos in green and gold with him standing next

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Speaker 2: to me is priceless. We're going to have that forever

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Speaker 2: and that was something special for me and it was

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Speaker 2: just an added bonus to be able to play for

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Speaker 2: my country again but have my son there with me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really really special. Get more from your job

404
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 1: with a career at Victoria Police, the freedom to go

405
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: on more holidays with nine weeks, and you'll leave more

406
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Speaker 1: connection with your community where you'll make a difference every day,

407
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: the chance to meet more people, where workmates become your

408
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: best mates. Get all of this and more with a

409
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: career at Victoria Police Search Police careers today authorized by

410
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: the Victorian Government Melbourne. When it got to a certain point,

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Speaker 1: it was unfortunately out of your control to make that

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Speaker 1: decision to retire from softball. Can you share a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about that experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was just just prior to COVID. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I finished the Australian Asia Pacific series here in Australia

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Speaker 2: in Sydney and at the time I was an acting

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Speaker 2: senior sergeant. I was over at Corfield Police Station and

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Speaker 2: was going through a transition of getting a promotion. I

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Speaker 2: was going through a separation. I had started my UNI

420
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Speaker 2: degree and I was trying to juggle all of that

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Speaker 2: at the same time as have, you know, fifty percent

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Speaker 2: custody of my son. So there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: a lot of things going on in my world. And

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Speaker 2: COVID had just hit and I remember getting my first

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Speaker 2: injection and prior to it, I had marks coming up

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Speaker 2: on my hands and I didn't know what it was.

427
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Speaker 2: I thought it was loopers. My sisters had lupus her

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Speaker 2: whole life. So that's what I thought it was. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, we I took a synthetic steroid to try

430
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Speaker 2: and calm the rash, and it didn't go. The shorter

431
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Speaker 2: version of this story is I went to a dermatology,

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Speaker 2: me to a rheumatologist. I ended up getting muscle and

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Speaker 2: skin biopsies to determine what the disease was. And the

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Speaker 2: disease was It's called demetamyascytis, the demata being the skin,

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00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: mio being the muscle, and cytus being disease. And so

436
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,239
Speaker 2: basically what it meant was my skin would come out

437
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: a rash and my muscles would deteriorate. So within a fortnight,

438
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: my muscles had deteriorated so badly that I went from

439
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: what I'm normally about a size eleven into about a

440
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: size six seven. I was struggling to fit into anything.

441
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 2: And I was at a fortnight and I remember looking

442
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: in the mirror thinking what's going on here? Like why

443
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 2: am I losing significant weight muscle? Mind you, as an athlete,

444
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: as you'd be aware, you work so hard to get

445
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 2: that strong shape, that strong figure. It puts. It's a

446
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: lot of time and effort to get that and then

447
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 2: maintain it, and especially as you get older, trying to

448
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: keep that maintenance of it. And so for it to

449
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: go it was almost you know, that's another identity of me.

450
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: And yeah, when the disease came about, it basically means

451
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: that when your muscle sateria, you've got no strength. So

452
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: I'd lost a lot of energy. I was very lethargic.

453
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: I was pretty much a victim to the disease at

454
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: the time. So going to the rheumatologist, he was quick

455
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: on it. Within I would say a month, I started

456
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: all types of medication. I went on a drug called metatrexate,

457
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 2: which is like a cancer drug, so it's also used

458
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: for autoimmune diseases. And I had a really bad experience

459
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: with that, and so I ended up jumping off that

460
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: and onto a different type of med I now I

461
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: now do iv IG, which is done every six weeks,

462
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: so intravenous in globin. So I go and get hospital

463
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: treatment for a day and that's where they put antibodies

464
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: back into my body. The way that I I managed

465
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: it was making sure that I could continue doing what

466
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: I'm doing, try and listen to my body. It was

467
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: about that slowing down process and understanding what was going

468
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: on and how do I best set myself up for success.

469
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: So I put a lot of processes in place at

470
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: the time I retired from softball, because I knew that

471
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: I just physically could not play. I couldn't do anything

472
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: like that. I maintained a gym program purely because sort

473
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 2: of similar to ms, that you need to keep your

474
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: body continually moving with this disease because if it stops,

475
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: it will seize up. So the gym side of it

476
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: was just maintenance, making sure that I kept strong and

477
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: I didn't over exert myself. I did have a lot

478
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: of trial and errors where if I did too much

479
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: gym sessions, it would actually create too much CK in

480
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: my bloodstream and would poison my bloodstream, so I'd set

481
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: back five or six weeks. So that was a trial

482
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: and error sort of experience. But all in all, you know,

483
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,719
Speaker 2: it's something that we had to try and prevent cancer

484
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: from coming. We did the preventatives, and to me, it

485
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: was about how do I set myself up to succeed

486
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: in this environment and this situation. So it was about

487
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: getting early wins. So I'd set myself up to do box,

488
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: breathing exercises in the morning, no electronics for an hour.

489
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: I would do hot and cold showers, and I'd do

490
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: stretching all before I left the front door. I'd even

491
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: you know, as they say, and make you bear because

492
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: it's a small win. Those sorts of things that would

493
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: set me up for success. And then when I came

494
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: to work, I would do, you know, my full duties.

495
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: I was fortunate to have colleagues at the time that

496
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: were really supportive of me, because it was during the

497
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: COVID period where everyone was isolated, so I didn't feel

498
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: like I was isolating myself too much, but they would

499
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: help me out and be outside doing the operational world,

500
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: and I'd do the strategic world of protests and please

501
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 2: at the time, so to me, it was something that

502
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: I didn't want to stop playing because I have such

503
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: a passion for it. I had to stop playing. But

504
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: at the same time, I didn't want the disease to

505
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: take over and be who my identity was. So how

506
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: do I still maintain who I am and continue progressing

507
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: through this? So setting up all of those little habits,

508
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: I truly believe now that it was actually somewhat of

509
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: blessing in disguise, because otherwise I might not have I

510
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: might not prepare myself as best as I do now,

511
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: And it leads into my healthy living lifestyle with my son.

512
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: It leads into how I lead at work and my

513
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: considerations for how I look after myself, my considerations for

514
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: how I speak to my people and make sure that

515
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: they look after themselves as well. So some really good

516
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: wins came out of it.

517
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: It sounds like you are incredibly disciplined, like you've been

518
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: through something that there's our out of your control, and

519
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: I imagine like you touched on, like took away a

520
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: lot of your identity and sounds incredibly draining and frustrating

521
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: at times, but it sounds like you're really disciplined in

522
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: your approach to really, I guess, take back control over

523
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: the things that you can have control over. Yeah.

524
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: No, you're spot on, And yeah, I don't realize how

525
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: disciplined I am until I can reflect on something like

526
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: that and understand the impact it had on me. But

527
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: to me, it was just absolutely important if I wanted

528
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 2: to continue to do what I'm doing being who I am.

529
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: And as I said, I had so much going on

530
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: I didn't want to drop my UNI stuff. It was

531
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: about engaging with the support networks that I had around me.

532
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: You know, my academic advisor was completely supportive. He gave

533
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: me some extensions to allow me to actually find time

534
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: to do all my study with work. I had a

535
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: really good network around me there. My support network from home.

536
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: My parents would come down in one of my sister

537
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: this should come down frequently to either look after my

538
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: son when I had treatment. The gym sessions to me

539
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: is that that's again, as you know through as an athlete,

540
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: your gym is your identity as well, because it's almost

541
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: like you're solace you go there, because it's not just

542
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: it's not just the lifting of weights. It's almost like

543
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: it's my version of cheers. You know, everyone knows your name.

544
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: You get in there, you get amongst the people that

545
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: are there. You're enjoying a session. At the same time

546
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: you happen to be getting gains from it, so you

547
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: know they come from it. But you know, I really

548
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 2: wanted to still be who I am, but I had

549
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: to do everything in moderation. I had to consider what

550
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: was being put in my body. I had to consider

551
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: what type of products I was using on my skin.

552
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: So there was a hell of a lot of things

553
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: that I had to consider, But to me, this was

554
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: the best way that I could work on me and

555
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: the best opportunity that I could give myself to succes

556
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: eating it. So absolutely disciplined, but again probably came from

557
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: my early days in Italy, where you know, you had

558
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: to understand the importance of discipline, the professionalism and commitment.

559
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: Before we hit record, I kind of got a rundown

560
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: of all of your jobs and the career progression that

561
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: you've had with Victoria Police. So some of them you

562
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: started as in uniform policing. Then there was a Critical

563
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: Incident Response Team or CERT. I think is that if

564
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: I got that acronym right, yep, A sergeant, a senior

565
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: sergeant with the Public Order Response Team. You've worked with

566
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: the Assistant Commissioner in part of Human Resources Command, also

567
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: acting superintendent, currently an acting superintendent.

568
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: Have I got that right? Yes? Right?

569
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: Currently, and then heading back to CERT to be an

570
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: inspector with SERT. Is that correct?

571
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: That is correct? Yes? I think it right.

572
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: Is there a highlight when you reflect on your career

573
00:30:59,120 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: so far with.

574
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: I think there's a probably a lot of a lot

575
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: of highlights in your policing career. I guess the way

576
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: that I look at it is probably what as what

577
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: in my what's my idea of success? And so I

578
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: would say I've had a lot of disasters throughout my career.

579
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: I've lost and appeals where I've got a job and

580
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: then someone appealed me and I've lost it. But to me,

581
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: a highlight is when you see something succeed, not necessarily

582
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: a moment in time, but it might be something that

583
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: takes time to actually succeed. I'd probably say one of

584
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: my highlights currently is in the role that I'm currently

585
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: sitting in. I was I was put into the role

586
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: in May last year, and my commander at the time

587
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: had informed me that I could own the position. I'm

588
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: now in a position where I feel that we have

589
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: progressed in the work that we're doing. I feel that

590
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: the people have that psychological safety in the environment that

591
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: they're in that they're comfortable to speak up in any meeting,

592
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: They're comfortable to come and see me about whatever they

593
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: need to speak to me about, whether that's personal, whether

594
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 2: that's work, whatever the circumstances are. And I feel that

595
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: I've created that environment that people want and have a

596
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: desire to actually come into work and they know that.

597
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: It has a couple of different elements. It has the

598
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: element of we need to get this done, so need

599
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: to put our heads down and get this work done,

600
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: but also has an element of fun and enjoyment when

601
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: we're in the workplace. So I've developed who I am

602
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: in the terms of being a leader, in the terms

603
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: of my vulnerabilities. I consistently tell my team you know

604
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: that I do still have imposter syndrome, and I am

605
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: a perfectionist and I am working through that. So I'm

606
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: happy to display that kind of vulnerability. But in all

607
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: honesty to me, you know, that is a highlight because

608
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: I've been able to see in a short period of

609
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: time that I've been there ten or eleven months, that

610
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: through that style of leadership and need developing what that

611
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: leadership is, which I believe is transformational. I'm certainly not

612
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: autocratic unless it's time critical, but it has highlighted to

613
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: me the importance of putting our people first. It's highlighted

614
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: the importance of people feeling valued, and that's really rewarding

615
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: from my perspective. Receiving really beautiful cards and thank you

616
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: from my staff. As I'm about to move out of

617
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: there and move on to my next journey at CIRT,

618
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: it warms my heart knowing that, you know, while we're

619
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: all still working on ourselves in who our true authentic

620
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: leadership styles are, I feel like there's been some really

621
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: good wins that I've been really you know, humbled about.

622
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: You're about to, as you said, you're about to head

623
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: back to that of the Critical Incident Response Team, and that,

624
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: from what I understand, involves negotiations and working in sieges.

625
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: Can you kind of give us a bit of insight

626
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: into what that actually looks like as a police officer.

627
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: As a police officer so well, when I was at

628
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: the because I probably couldn't give you exactly what it's

629
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: like right now, and I have no doubt that has

630
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: changed in the last nine years. But when I was there,

631
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: it was about sieges, suicide intervention, barricades, edge weapons, and

632
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: those higher end jobs that have developed a little bit

633
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: more where they've got a tasktops, which basically means they

634
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: do task operations of incidents that might be happening, and

635
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: they can work with other units within Victoria Police to

636
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: execute certain might be a warrant for example. The negotiation

637
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 2: side of it, although again has developed and changed since

638
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: the time that I've been there. They've got some brilliant

639
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: leaders there that really lead the way in the term

640
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: of how important and how pivotal and negotiation can be.

641
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: What I always found was going into a place like

642
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: CIRTA and being a negotiator myself. I felt that I

643
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: became better at de escalating situations once I became a

644
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 2: negotiator and used I used options like police tactical options

645
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: less because I was a negotiator than what I ever

646
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: did prior to being negotiated. So the skill sets that

647
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: you actually develop in those areas are just brilliant. They're brilliant,

648
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: and I've just been hearing a few conversations that a

649
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: couple of the staff have been having in relation to

650
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: how important it is and the challenge of using a

651
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: negotiation skill set in your own family is always going

652
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 2: to be hard, because I try and use negotiation techniques

653
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: on my son and it never works, which is I

654
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: don't know whether he's got a better skill set than

655
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: me or whether he's just learnt well. But the job

656
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: that they do is essentially was created because there was

657
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: a stop gap between uniform police and the SOOG and

658
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: that's where STIRT was initially developed, and so the work

659
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 2: that they're doing has morphed quite substantially, especially since I've

660
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: been there. It's a great environment. You've got some really

661
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: great people in there. The skill sets that they develop

662
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: in there. I found coming out of CURT and moving

663
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: into uniform policing again, you've got a different mindset and

664
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: it's definitely set on that safety aspect. How do I

665
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 2: position my people to make sure that they're safe but

666
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: get the design result at the end. So it has

667
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: got that enhanced level of thinking, critical thinking. I think

668
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: it will be really beneficial for anyone that's at CERT

669
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: when they're ready to move on in their careers, being

670
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: able to use the skill sets that they've got there,

671
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: and how valuable it will be in educating our younger

672
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: members that have just come through the academy and on

673
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 2: a divisional van. But realistically, it's a role that I

674
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: think is absolutely essential in Victoria Police. It's one that

675
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: will continue enhancing and the diversity that you get within

676
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: the unit. Close Personal Protection is another example where you

677
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: work with dignitaries and vps that come to Victoria and

678
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: protect them. You work alongside their protection units, so you

679
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: might work alongside the secret services from America like those

680
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: kind of things, and getting insights, networking and developing ways

681
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: of doing things that's best practice. It's a very exciting

682
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: place and they've got some really great members there that

683
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: I think are leading us from the front. So I'm

684
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: really excited.

685
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: You touched on the special moment when you represented Australia

686
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: again in softball and having your son by your side.

687
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 1: I've heard you speak about your story of returning from

688
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: maternity leave coming back to work. Can you give us

689
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: a bit of insight about what that was like in

690
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: your first day back on the job.

691
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: Yes, So it was a bit of a challenge, to

692
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 2: be honest, because you know, I only took five months

693
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: off in matternity leave and I did have therians, So

694
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: it was it was about how do I set myself

695
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: up to succeed again, How do I have that discipline

696
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: to be able to get myself back into the shape

697
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: that I was in prior to being pregnant and being

698
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: able to prove that this is not a hindrance or

699
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: it's just a blip in my career, and that I

700
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: can come back and I can still do the job

701
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: that I was doing, So leading into the question you're asking,

702
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: I was fortunate at the time to have a really

703
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: great trainer and so he helped me through all that

704
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: physical side of things to build the strength and be

705
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 2: able to do what I was doing prior to being pregnant.

706
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: So could do all of my qualifications and pass all

707
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,479
Speaker 2: my fitness quolls without issue, which was fantastic. The first day,

708
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: the first day that I came back, I'm walking in

709
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: the office and we've got a board in the office

710
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 2: where tell you what role you're doing for the day,

711
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: because it could vary. And on that day I saw

712
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 2: that I was the lead negotiator and in my head,

713
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: I sort of been off for a few months. I

714
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: probably should just warm myself into this, and to be honest,

715
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: looking back and reflecting on that, it's probably me sitting

716
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: back going I just want to take the easy road in.

717
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: So nothing wrong. We've been thrown in the deep end

718
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: and this is probably an example of why. But I

719
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: remember wanting to actually be removed from the lead negotiator

720
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 2: role and wasn't able to do so, so I took

721
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: on the role. No worries Within half an hour of

722
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: the shift, a job came up and it was a siege,

723
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: so we attended the siege. It went for nine hours.

724
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: It was one where when we first arrived, the male

725
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: had a firearm, so he's basically scaled his fence, sitting

726
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: on top of his fence, pointed the firearm at me

727
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: instead of me, you know, freaking out or anything. I

728
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: obviously did what I normal tactics would be, and you

729
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: just take cover and then you reposition yourself and you

730
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: then start engaging again as a negotiator. By the end

731
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: of the job, I'd moved around to the front of

732
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: the address and had been negotiating face to face with him,

733
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: and we ended up getting him out of the address.

734
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 2: We made the safe arrest neal injuries. And it wasn't

735
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: until I got in the car at the end of

736
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: my shift to go home that I actually reflected on

737
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 2: it and realized, I've got a five month all at

738
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: home and I've just had an offended point of firearm

739
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: at me. And it probably took me back a little

740
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: bit to realize, you know, I'm in my mid thirties

741
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: at this stage. Should I be starting to look at

742
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: what career development I have, and it really did push

743
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: me in the direction of going, Okay, I actually want

744
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 2: to start looking at promotion, and there's a whole team

745
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: here of about one hundred and eighty at the time

746
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: that can do this job. There's a whole heap of

747
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: people that can do negotiation. I think it's time for

748
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 2: me to step out of this role and start moving

749
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: on to the next step, which is my promotional pathway,

750
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 2: and therefore became a sergeant externally back in the uniform. Yeah.

751
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: Wow, it's quite it's quite an incredible story. I'd love

752
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: to kind of wrap up this chat that I have

753
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed learning more about you and kind of what

754
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: you've learned about yourself throughout this process. What do you

755
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: think could be done better for I guess women across

756
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: the board returning from pregnancy into those work roles, whether

757
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: it's even looking at as elite athletes or potentially into

758
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: the workforce. Was there anything you think that can be

759
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: done better to support women?

760
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: I think sometimes it's hard. It's funny. I just had

761
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 2: a conversation today with one of our members who has

762
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 2: gone off on mattornity leave, and so she's still doing

763
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: her two or three days a week where she'll come

764
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: back into the office to probably invigorate her but at

765
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: the same time keep her mind in the game, so

766
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: to speak. And I think it probably identified to me

767
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: because the experiences that she had during pregnancy were exactly

768
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 2: the same experiences as me. I was probably fortunate. I

769
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: say fortunate because at the time I had flexibility at home.

770
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 2: My husband could look after my son when I was

771
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: at work and vice versa because he had more afternoon

772
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: evening work that he was doing, so we had flexibility

773
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: at home. So I was fortunate in that situation, whereas

774
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: you know, the staff member that I spoke to today

775
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: doesn't have that flexibility, So you know, I think the

776
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: awareness of understanding the flexible workplace arrangements, the awareness of

777
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: understanding how we can integrate them back into the offers

778
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: so it's not such a long period. I think it's

779
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,479
Speaker 2: always quite daunting when you've been off for a period

780
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 2: of time, and regardless of whether it's maternity or whether

781
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: it's a physical injury, a mental health injury, that return

782
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: to the workplace is quite challenging when it does become

783
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: a longer period. And I know that Victoria Police are

784
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: working through how we do well return to work with

785
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 2: people and trying to get them to return sooner rather

786
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: than later more for their own mindset. But I think

787
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: that engagement the initial engagement, and it's really hard as

788
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: a manager to always be on top of a game

789
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: with it. But I think what we do need to

790
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: consider is how do we implement processes where we've constantly

791
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 2: got welfare people that can reach out to these people

792
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: to ensure that they don't feel they're on their own,

793
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: to make sure that we've got meaningful work when they return.

794
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: And it does depend on what type of return they do,

795
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 2: if they're at full duties, if they're at partialship duties,

796
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: if they're requiring flexible workplace arrangements, but understanding what they

797
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: need and then demonstrating to them that it's not just said,

798
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: but it's actually going to be implemented and assisted through

799
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 2: that process. So I think they're doing it is essential

800
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: and I know that as a manager it becomes a

801
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: lot when you've got a number of people in different

802
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 2: for different reasons, being off trying to manage all of that,

803
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 2: but putting the person first, I think is always going

804
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 2: to set us up for success.

805
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that I think it's it's such great insight.

806
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time today. Also, I've

807
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: absolutely loved getting to know more about you and your story,

808
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: and I think it's really quite amazing the way you've

809
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: kind of really been quite reflective. I think throughout your

810
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: career as an athlete and with Victoria Police as well,

811
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're constantly learning and growing and evolving.

812
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 1: And I've absolutely love the chance to chat to you today.

813
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for.

814
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: The opportunity, Chloe. I've enjoyed it, and I did listen

815
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: to a couple of year podcasts. It was really good,

816
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: joy very much. I enjoyed having a listen, you know,

817
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: putting it on, and I find myself that I listened

818
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: to a lot of podcasts anyway, but at the same time,

819
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: this one because it hits home. There's you know, the

820
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: sporting us of it, there's the policing aspect of it,

821
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: and hearing people that you don't actually know a lot

822
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: of someone's background, and so this has been a great

823
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: opportunity to actually dive into someone's personal story that just

824
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: inspires you, doesn't it. So thank you for inspiring me.

825
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: Oh I really appreciate that.

826
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, So worried, Thanks Coley.

827
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. If you got something out

828
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: of this episode, I would absolutely love it if you

829
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: could send it on to one person who you think

830
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, give us a review, and

831
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: make sure you follow us on Instagram at the Female

832
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: Athlete Project to stay up to date with podcast episodes,

833
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: merch drops, and of course news and stories about epic

834
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: female athletes