Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reloaded podcast last week.
Speaker 2: I'm I, how would I describe a television set?
Speaker 3: Oh Man from a headline grabbing point of view, the
Speaker 3: hack producer from me says one hundred percent put him in.
Speaker 1: Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin
Speaker 1: Norris and on this podcast, I go behind the scenes
Speaker 1: with the biggest players in television. This week mark's an
Speaker 1: amazing milestone for me as it's my fiftieth episode of
Speaker 1: the podcast. I've been super lucky with my guests, having
Speaker 1: people like Andy Lee.
Speaker 4: Yeah, great questions, the show's about the.
Speaker 2: Game, having Sonya Krueger.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of great television out there in Australia.
Speaker 1: Two of Australia's finest presenters. But I've also got to
Speaker 1: go behind the scenes with writers. The truth is when
Speaker 1: I started writing it, it wasn't had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the news and casting agents.
Speaker 2: They know from a casting point of view what they need.
Speaker 1: And editors because that's what we do as editors where storytellers.
Speaker 1: Not to forget some incredible executive producers who are making
Speaker 1: some of the best TV content Australia.
Speaker 4: I have been on the program since the beginning and
Speaker 4: it's kind of in my DNA.
Speaker 1: So thanks for joining me each week, and I hope
Speaker 1: the podcast continues to give you real insight into the
Speaker 1: magic of television. A big shout out to Channel ten,
Speaker 1: Channel nine, Channel seven and ABC Australia. I'd also love
Speaker 1: to thank the streaming platforms Amazon Prime, Paramount Plus, Netflix,
Speaker 1: Stan and Binge for all of their continued support. I
Speaker 1: started out with this mission statement to tell factual stories
Speaker 1: about television, offering you the chance to get right up
Speaker 1: close and personal with the source material. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I've done that and I'll continue to do so.
Speaker 1: This week, I'm changing things up a little bit and
Speaker 1: I'm going to go straight into the interview with Tony
Speaker 1: as our special guest. If you want to stick around
Speaker 1: and get a few recommendations on what I'm watching, I'm
Speaker 1: going to leave that at the end and hopefully you
Speaker 1: stick around and hear that. As I mentioned, today's special
Speaker 1: guest is Tonyairs and what a perfect way to celebrate
Speaker 1: fifty episodes of this podcast. Tony is a showrunner, screenwriter
Speaker 1: and director in television and feature films. He made a
Speaker 1: big name for himself with films like Walking on Water,
Speaker 1: The Home Song Stories, as well as his work in television,
Speaker 1: which includes his work on Stateless, the slap Barracootera, and
Speaker 1: the popular teen adventure series Nowhere Boys.
Speaker 2: From his work.
Speaker 1: At Matchbox Pictures to starting his own company, Tap, you
Speaker 1: would have seen an enormous amount of his work in
Speaker 1: the industry. People speak so highly of Tony they all
Speaker 1: want to work with him and they all want to
Speaker 1: be his friend because of his generosity, his intelligence, but
Speaker 1: above all, his ability to tell stories so well. Today
Speaker 1: we'll be talking about the brand new series Clickbait, which
Speaker 1: is currently out on Netflix. The series is brilliant. It's
Speaker 1: a murder mystery who done it? With a real subtext
Speaker 1: that you guys will be talking about for days after
Speaker 1: you've watched the series. The show is number one on
Speaker 1: Netflix at the moment and is simply addictive viewing. So
Speaker 1: we will go behind the scenes on that show.
Speaker 2: But I'll also get a.
Speaker 1: Chance to talk to Tony about his passions and his inspirations,
Speaker 1: which he will unpack in true tonyas style. However, let's
Speaker 1: get started with today's guest. I'd like to welcome to
Speaker 1: the podcast. It's Tony Airs.
Speaker 4: I had no idea that it would be so popular.
Speaker 4: Is a propulsive thriller told from the perspective of eight
Speaker 4: different characters. We have phenomenal people in Australia.
Speaker 5: In every episode, you get to know a different side
Speaker 5: of him?
Speaker 4: Or do you both in front of the camera and
Speaker 4: behind the camera?
Speaker 1: What do you make the signs that he was holding
Speaker 1: I abuse women?
Speaker 4: How'd you be a human being with all of those
Speaker 4: different versions of yourself? Way focus on five million hits
Speaker 4: I die. I was also interested in that there are
Speaker 4: other darker sides of ourselves, which are we're being given
Speaker 4: access to through the Internet?
Speaker 2: Hey, Tony, how are you?
Speaker 5: Hi?
Speaker 1: Van? Congratulations on the success of Clickbait. Did you ever
Speaker 1: expect the show was going to take off like this?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, no idea or you know, it was just you
Speaker 4: put something out into the world. I've put things out
Speaker 4: into the world before, and then you know, I had
Speaker 4: no idea that it would be so popular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it's just resonating at the right time.
Speaker 1: What would you say were the influencers when you were
Speaker 1: delving into this whole who done it? Style of storytelling?
Speaker 1: You know, what were your influences for.
Speaker 4: That I have been an avid watcher of this genre
Speaker 4: for many years, but I've never actually made one before,
Speaker 4: So I guess in terms of influencers, I hate to
Speaker 4: sound self referential, but the Slab.
Speaker 6: From one Little Slap ricochets off into this eight episode
Speaker 6: perspective of everyone's view on what happened.
Speaker 1: Whether it's all or bad.
Speaker 4: When I was making The Slap, I really loved the format,
Speaker 4: the idea of these revolving points to you, and I
Speaker 4: was always curious about how far you could push that format,
Speaker 4: like how much further you could go, Because in The Slap,
Speaker 4: we made a show about a misdemeanor really that happens
Speaker 4: that causes a ripple out effect, and Christian and I
Speaker 4: Christian White, my co creator, we were just kind of
Speaker 4: wanted to see what would happen if it was a
Speaker 4: much bigger event that then, rather than ripple out, just
Speaker 4: kind of exploded out. So we took the format of
Speaker 4: the Slab and then this premise, which was Christian's brilliant idea,
Speaker 4: which is of this guy holding up this card, and
Speaker 4: then we just sort of thought, okay, well let's go
Speaker 4: from there.
Speaker 7: This is a message for Nick Kinneffer. He's a husband,
Speaker 7: a father, a brother. He's kind, loving and gentle.
Speaker 8: I love you.
Speaker 1: So you made a terrible mistake.
Speaker 3: Let him come home.
Speaker 4: Yes, you don't find a missing person in the first
Speaker 4: forty eight hours, the chances of finding them alive drops
Speaker 4: by fifty percent.
Speaker 7: There's a new video.
Speaker 1: It's worse. Well, a very compelling story, you know, because
Speaker 1: it just keeps unraveling. And I think it's really funny
Speaker 1: that you mentioned the slap, because I was recommending this
Speaker 1: TV series to a friend of mine and I was like,
Speaker 1: do you know what it is a mixture of these
Speaker 1: three things. It's a mixture of the Slap, a really
Speaker 1: good episode of Inspector Morse and Mayor of Eastown. And
Speaker 1: they were like, great, I love all of those. So
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen Inspector Morse before.
Speaker 1: I grew up watching it with my grandparents, but I'm
Speaker 1: assuming it's not one of the referential points.
Speaker 4: Weirdly enough, I mean, I went to a period where
Speaker 4: I watched a few Midsummer Murders and Agatha Christie's and yeah,
Speaker 4: so this particular genre has its rules and it's ways
Speaker 4: of doing things, and I think, you know, I was
Speaker 4: clearly affected by it. We also talked about Scooby Doo
Speaker 4: in the writer's room, But.
Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing, is like you've got to
Speaker 1: let when you're watching other people's content, that'll wash over you,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming, and then you will always borrow things from
Speaker 1: different areas of your life. I'm really excited because I
Speaker 1: like Scooby Doo as well. Can I throw that in
Speaker 1: when I'm doing when I'm offering.
Speaker 2: This to someone?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: What was the process like of getting Netflix behind making
Speaker 1: this series?
Speaker 4: Well, originally the show was commissioned by Channel four and
Speaker 4: then it moved to Amazon, so we had a few
Speaker 4: sort of homes before then, and unfortunately it didn't stay
Speaker 4: at Amazon, and so I reset it in America and
Speaker 4: pitched it to a number of different players in America,
Speaker 4: and all of them were really interested in it, like
Speaker 4: it was just an idea that seemed to be of
Speaker 4: its time. And Netflix made us straight series offer, so
Speaker 4: was clear that that was the direction we would go to.
Speaker 1: Right now, they're kicking themselves if I'm going to be
Speaker 1: really honest with you, But what were the hiccups with
Speaker 1: Amazon and Channel four?
Speaker 4: Or there were some business issues around Channel four, but
Speaker 4: you know, like projects are championed by certain people, and
Speaker 4: sometimes those people leave, and it sort of happens all
Speaker 4: the time that you know, like, unless you have a champion,
Speaker 4: you know, really advocating for your show, it's you know,
Speaker 4: it's very hard to push it into actually being made.
Speaker 4: So unfortunately, our champions at Amazon left and work for
Speaker 4: another company, and we've found champions at Netflix.
Speaker 1: My dad always used to say to me, never work
Speaker 1: for somebody who doesn't get you, you know, because then
Speaker 1: you'll spend way too much time trying to get them
Speaker 1: to get you instead of just getting the work done.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 2: But do you think the True.
Speaker 1: Crime has influenced this popularity in murder mysteries that we're
Speaker 1: seeing at the moment. I mean, I did mention Merivstown before,
Speaker 1: but did you think or was True Crime a bit
Speaker 1: of an influence into making this series.
Speaker 4: When Christian and I were talking about the show, I
Speaker 4: asked Christian to go off and do some research and
Speaker 4: he opened up this Pandora's Box of real crimes that
Speaker 4: have been committed because of the invention of the Internet
Speaker 4: and its intrusion into our lives. And the research document
Speaker 4: is almost golden in just how eye opening it was
Speaker 4: how nixt you know, like how the Internet had affected
Speaker 4: the real world, and we kind of basically made up
Speaker 4: the show from a couple of true crimes. So yes,
Speaker 4: absolutely it has been true crime affected.
Speaker 1: I always think of the Internet like the ocean, you know,
Speaker 1: like being out in the ocean. It's really deep and
Speaker 1: you really just don't know what is underneath you and
Speaker 1: the complexities of it, the dangers of it, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think that the Internet is a really good
Speaker 1: source material when you're looking at terror, you know, in
Speaker 1: a way because as an audience and watching this show
Speaker 1: every episode, I experienced a level of terror. I think
Speaker 1: it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 4: I think the Internet is one of those things where
Speaker 4: there are amazing things about it, you know, there's amazing
Speaker 4: things about connectivity, and there are benign things about it.
Speaker 4: There's so much information, so much learning that we can do.
Speaker 4: There's also probably just as much disinformation. And I think
Speaker 4: it's not only affecting our political culture, but I think
Speaker 4: it's also affecting our personal psyches. And I think that
Speaker 4: was what I was really interested in making this show.
Speaker 4: How are we as human beings being affected by all
Speaker 4: the different kinds of ways in which we are asked
Speaker 4: to perform ourselves these days, and the possibilities of that
Speaker 4: performance going wrong. You know that I thought that was
Speaker 4: kind of interesting. And you know, often a lot of
Speaker 4: these crimes are created by mischief, you know, people's kind
Speaker 4: of doing things in bad faith or do you know. Basically,
Speaker 4: we are very open to mischief in the Internet, especially
Speaker 4: also if you're not a digital native like I think,
Speaker 4: you know, like I'm not, it's really easy to take
Speaker 4: things at face value. And the thing that we are
Speaker 4: learning about the world now is that we need we
Speaker 4: need much greater sort of digital hygiene. We need a
Speaker 4: much you know, much more acute ways of telling what's
Speaker 4: real and what's not real in front of us on
Speaker 4: our screens, because I think that, you know, we're in
Speaker 4: inner situation where where you have to learn to understand
Speaker 4: where information comes from, where where your information sources come from,
Speaker 4: and what's real and what's not real.
Speaker 1: I think as well, for different people like you said
Speaker 1: that might not be aware of stranger danger really needs
Speaker 1: to be applied to being on the Internet. I want
Speaker 1: to know beyond this particular story, and we'll go back
Speaker 1: into clickbait in the second, but was this a real
Speaker 1: opportunity for you to prove to international markets that Australia
Speaker 1: can make global content just as good as anyone else.
Speaker 4: I guess. You know what was interesting about the show
Speaker 4: was we always designed it Christian and I always designed
Speaker 4: it to be, say, an American show. You know. When
Speaker 4: we were going for the American market, we thought this
Speaker 4: can play in the States, and it wasn't originally going
Speaker 4: to be shot in Australia, but you know, really, just
Speaker 4: because of the economics, we were probably going to shoot
Speaker 4: it in Canada, and then Canada was just so oversubscribed
Speaker 4: as a place to make TV, you know, like it
Speaker 4: was just ridiculously busy, and then I thought, well, I
Speaker 4: live in Melbourne. You know. It took a bit of
Speaker 4: a campaign to persuade everyone that we could do it.
Speaker 4: You know, we had to persuade Netflix, we had to
Speaker 4: persuade David Hayman, we had to persuade NBC Universal that
Speaker 4: we could do it. And it was a bit of
Speaker 4: a punt. But I think it pays off because I
Speaker 4: feel like it's hard to you know, like I feel
Speaker 4: that the show is convincing. They hadn't done the show
Speaker 4: set in America, but shot in Australia before. This is
Speaker 4: a first for them. The international directors that we.
Speaker 3: Brought in for Clickbay were blown away by how good
Speaker 3: our Australian crews are. The reason we chose to film
Speaker 3: at Docklands was because having a world class studio makes
Speaker 3: it possible for us to replicate the bits that we
Speaker 3: needed to replicate, particularly around our interiors.
Speaker 6: And it's those small details that although people don't notice it,
Speaker 6: that's what gives us its sense of authenticity.
Speaker 1: Well, apart from the benefits for you being that you
Speaker 1: could film this show in your hometown, what are some
Speaker 1: of the benefits of making a story like this on
Speaker 1: Australian soil.
Speaker 4: For a producer, I think that you get a more
Speaker 4: bang for your buck in Australia. Like, you know, we
Speaker 4: were relatively you know, small budget kind of show, but
Speaker 4: we made it go a long way. I think. I
Speaker 4: think for the local industry there are benefits in terms
Speaker 4: of work, in terms of international exposure, like I think
Speaker 4: there are those kinds of benefits. I think for Netflix
Speaker 4: and NBCU it's the possibility of a different way of
Speaker 4: making shows as well, and so you know, hopefully there
Speaker 4: will be interest. But you know what I always say
Speaker 4: in terms of this subject, is that that that goes
Speaker 4: hand in hand with having a robust Australian industry where
Speaker 4: we make Australian shows as well. You know, Clickbait is
Speaker 4: an American show that's shot in Australia, but you know,
Speaker 4: we also need to keep making Australian shows.
Speaker 1: My partner's friend messaged me and said, guys, are you're
Speaker 1: watching Clickbait?
Speaker 2: It's so amazing.
Speaker 1: So I was like, great, yeah, I'm already watching it
Speaker 1: and said that I was going to be talking to
Speaker 1: you and I said, you know that it was partially,
Speaker 1: you know, filmed. I didn't know what percentage, but I said,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of it was made here in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: And she was like what, And so isn't that an
Speaker 1: Isn't that a coupe to think that an audience member
Speaker 1: being an Australian wouldn't even pick up on that.
Speaker 4: I'm very happy to hear that because of well, you know,
Speaker 4: one of your anxieties at the beginning of this is,
Speaker 4: you know, can we do it convincingly? You know, we
Speaker 4: had this great American production designer, Lauren Crasco, who was
Speaker 4: so detailed in the way that she saw the show,
Speaker 4: made sure, you know, she policed anything that was like inauthentic,
Speaker 4: and you know, I love her dearly for it because
Speaker 4: I think that you know, sometimes it's just an accumulation
Speaker 4: of small details that give away you not being in
Speaker 4: the actual location. But Lauren just kept an eye on
Speaker 4: all the details. Like, for instance, we had to import
Speaker 4: doors because the door handles in America are lower than
Speaker 4: Australian door handles. You know, she made us really work
Speaker 4: hard to get all those things right.
Speaker 1: She must have been really good at like spot the
Speaker 1: difference growing up. You know, we you'd have to try
Speaker 1: and pick those things. Because I was doing that myself,
Speaker 1: because I mean I went straight. I went into this
Speaker 1: watching the show knowing that it was yours and knowing
Speaker 1: that it was made here, so I was really not distractingly,
Speaker 1: but I was still looking at car number plates and
Speaker 1: things in the background, you know, and there was never
Speaker 1: anything I could find.
Speaker 4: And the thing that really that's great that makes me happy.
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely could say that's the Convention Center,
Speaker 1: or I you know, could pick up on Melbourne places
Speaker 1: of significance. You know, I definitely picked up on that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But even the Australian actors that were
Speaker 1: in it. Now there's there is a show out at
Speaker 1: the moment which I won't get into about, and it's
Speaker 1: meant to be in America, but it was filmed here
Speaker 1: in Australia, and the accents aren't amazing where you know,
Speaker 1: everyone from like Deborah Lawrence to all of these really
Speaker 1: iconic Australian people, their accents were so incredible.
Speaker 2: I just met with Michael Hasting's father.
Speaker 3: He wants to press charges against Kai.
Speaker 4: He's just a child.
Speaker 2: I am so.
Speaker 7: Sorry, Sophie, but it looks like Michael needs surgery. Well
Speaker 7: that is completely unfair. Can't you do something?
Speaker 1: Did you send out to the casting people that the
Speaker 1: accents had to be top notch? Like you didn't want
Speaker 1: to go just with anyone who could try and do it?
Speaker 1: Did you wisit a must?
Speaker 4: We had an amazing dialect coach, and we had an
Speaker 4: amazing sound sound designer. We had really great people who
Speaker 4: could help us really make sure that every word was
Speaker 4: as close to American in accents as possible. So you know,
Speaker 4: we worked really really hard.
Speaker 1: Well paid off. And then you have Euro American actors
Speaker 1: that are in it. You know that we're all brilliant.
Speaker 1: What was Adrian Grenie like to work with? You know,
Speaker 1: had you seen his work in Entourage, Like, was there
Speaker 1: a specific reach out to him.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a huge fan of Entourage. I think
Speaker 4: it's one of the you know, iconic TV series. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Adrian was great. He's a lovely, charming, smart man. He's
Speaker 4: very handsome, but he's also you know, like very kind
Speaker 4: of human and you know, we got on really well
Speaker 4: and we talked about a lot of things. We agree
Speaker 4: about a lot of things in the world at the moment,
Speaker 4: how the world is, and we just we connected. So
Speaker 4: that was great. And he's kind of perfect for this
Speaker 4: role because he has this ambiguity about him as an
Speaker 4: actor where you could imagine him being a bad.
Speaker 2: Guy one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is the fiber of this
Speaker 1: entire production. Is is he a good guy or is
Speaker 1: he a bad guy?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And as an audience, when you wrestle with something like
Speaker 1: that continuously through the show, it's like a pull through
Speaker 1: and I think he just managed to execute that so well.
Speaker 5: My character Nick is not what he seems. In every
Speaker 5: episode you get to know a different side of him,
Speaker 5: or do you. So that's up to the audience to
Speaker 5: try and figure out who exactly is this guy?
Speaker 1: How did COVID interfere with the production though, because I
Speaker 1: know you went into production and then there was an issue.
Speaker 2: So what happened?
Speaker 4: We shot six episodes and then we were the first
Speaker 4: Australian production to be shut down by COVID the day
Speaker 4: before all of these you know, because we're an NBC unit,
Speaker 4: international production, international studio production, we're sort of part of
Speaker 4: the American system and there were all these shows shutting
Speaker 4: down in America. This was you know, early days last year,
Speaker 4: and you know, we would go we were actually trying
Speaker 4: to hold out to shut down after we you know,
Speaker 4: by a Friday, and we're aiming to shoot that that
Speaker 4: final week, and by the end of the day and
Speaker 4: Monday was very clear we had to shut down.
Speaker 2: And then how long were you shut down for?
Speaker 4: I think about eight months something like that. A long time,
Speaker 4: and particularly given the nature of this show, given that
Speaker 4: it's a kind of hybrid. You know, we had people
Speaker 4: coming in from the UK, we had people coming in
Speaker 4: from all parts of America, and you know, we were
Speaker 4: trying to work out whether one whether we could finish
Speaker 4: the show and two when we could do it if
Speaker 4: it was possible.
Speaker 6: Big budget blockbusters and small screen series are on hold
Speaker 6: around the world. As Australia moves through each phase on
Speaker 6: the road to recovery, the film industry is hoping productions
Speaker 6: can restart.
Speaker 4: And the producers were amazing, you know, like Matchbox and
Speaker 4: Tom Hoffey and Joe Werner and Michael McMahon or the producers.
Speaker 4: They kind of met three times a week trying to
Speaker 4: just nut out the logistics and in the end it
Speaker 4: was kind of a roll of the dice. We decided
Speaker 4: we're going to give it a go. And at that stage,
Speaker 4: Melbourne was in stage four lockdown and we were still
Speaker 4: trying to work out can we do this. We were
Speaker 4: really lucky because we came out of LoDown lockdown at
Speaker 4: exactly the right time for us. By the time we
Speaker 4: were rolling, the cameras are rolling again. But there was
Speaker 4: no COVID in the community and had not been any
Speaker 4: for you like a month, so everyone kind of felt safe.
Speaker 4: We were able to complete the show and here we are.
Speaker 1: And was Adrian available to come back as soon as
Speaker 1: you needed him or did you tell him to quit
Speaker 1: all of his other jobs, like, you know, how.
Speaker 2: Do you how do you get it? Well, the lead
Speaker 2: actor to return.
Speaker 4: Well, the thing is, there wasn't a lot of work
Speaker 4: happening anywhere in the world, you know, you know everywhere
Speaker 4: everyone was affected, but you know, by this pandemic. So
Speaker 4: as it turned out, when we started filming again, Australia
Speaker 4: became probably one of one of the two or three
Speaker 4: safe places in the world to film. And that's when
Speaker 4: you saw a whole glut of production come to Australia.
Speaker 1: Did you have to replace any character actors? Well, any
Speaker 1: actors were playing characters. No, you've got everyone back.
Speaker 4: We got everyone back.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
Speaker 4: It was fantastic, it was and you know, the cast
Speaker 4: were very loyal to the show. They really wanted to
Speaker 4: finish the job. They really wanted it to you know.
Speaker 4: They were great people. You know, we were lucky. We
Speaker 4: had really really great.
Speaker 1: People beyond COVID. Do you think that there will be
Speaker 1: more shows with American Australian production collaborations now that we've
Speaker 1: seen that not only can we make it, but people
Speaker 1: watch it and it's cost effective, Like, do you think
Speaker 1: we will see a rise in that?
Speaker 4: Listen? I think that there will be some ongoing production
Speaker 4: in that vein. I think absolutely. I think that the
Speaker 4: American industry is starting up again, and the UK industry
Speaker 4: is starting up again, and so you know, like I
Speaker 4: don't think we'll have a glut of those kinds of shows,
Speaker 4: but I think that we will definitely have occasional shows
Speaker 4: that do that.
Speaker 1: We've had this really amazing and promising reputation for Australian
Speaker 1: actors globally, and I was thinking, this is a really
Speaker 1: great opportunity for maybe for us to get that same
Speaker 1: kind of reputation for our crews, who are just as
Speaker 1: hardworking and have that similar work ethic. Do you think
Speaker 1: that we will see some of our most talented content
Speaker 1: makers being used around the world more frequently now?
Speaker 4: I think you know, if you're connected to a show
Speaker 4: that's considered a hit, I think it really raises your
Speaker 4: credibility within the industry. Certainly, we have phenomenal people in
Speaker 4: Australia both in front of the camera and behind the camera.
Speaker 4: Like you know, we are very blessed as an industry,
Speaker 4: and you know, if being in a show like Clickbait
Speaker 4: can help those people in their careers, then you know,
Speaker 4: I would be really, really happy because I think that,
Speaker 4: you know, I feel very lucky because you know, they're
Speaker 4: all my colleagues and there are all people I respect
Speaker 4: and that, you know, I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved it when you know, you look back
Speaker 1: at history and you see Jeffrey Rush doing Shine and
Speaker 1: then he's in all of these you know, blockbusters and
Speaker 1: he's getting lots of work. Or Jackie Weaver the same,
Speaker 1: you know, got an Academy Award nomination for one of
Speaker 1: her roles, and then we get to see her telling
Speaker 1: global stories, which I think is you know, really great
Speaker 1: to see and it'd be great for you to see
Speaker 1: these work colleagues of yours being rewarded like that, I
Speaker 1: guess absolutely. Getting back into a little bit more of clickbait,
Speaker 1: how do you plan a story like this? Were you
Speaker 1: tell a story about murder? Or was this a think
Speaker 1: piece on how dangerous the internet can be? I know
Speaker 1: we touched in that a little bit, but what was
Speaker 1: the priority with the storytelling?
Speaker 4: I think the thing that interested me thematically was the
Speaker 4: idea of the fractured self, like that we have all
Speaker 4: these different bits of ourselves, we have all these different
Speaker 4: identities that you know that we kind of put on
Speaker 4: like hats or cluck garments or you know, like the
Speaker 4: true self underneath that is can be broken by all
Speaker 4: of the different kind of It's like a refractions through mirrors.
Speaker 4: And I was kind of really interested in the way
Speaker 4: in which that's been accelerated. I mean, I think that's
Speaker 4: always been there in our society because you know, like
Speaker 4: we have professional self and we have our personal self,
Speaker 4: and it's who you are with your partner or with
Speaker 4: your family, you know, like, and we're all slightly different
Speaker 4: according to context. And then you have this new world
Speaker 4: in front of us where you've got your Instagram self,
Speaker 4: You've got your Twitter self, you've got your Facebook self,
Speaker 4: you know, like your LinkedIn self. Like there are all
Speaker 4: these different versions of yourself. And I was also interested
Speaker 4: in that there are other darker sides of ourselves we've
Speaker 4: been given access to through the Internet, through you know,
Speaker 4: like pornography and through all of the kind of dark
Speaker 4: spaces in the Internet, and that is also part of
Speaker 4: the self. And how do you kind of how do
Speaker 4: you be a human being with all of those different
Speaker 4: versions of yourself accessible and probably given more life than
Speaker 4: ever before. So that as became the central theme of
Speaker 4: the show because we were looking because of the format,
Speaker 4: because we were looking at eight different people, all trying
Speaker 4: to construct themselves, and you know, and then we were
Speaker 4: interested in what does a big crime mean to each
Speaker 4: of those eight people. And by doing that, I thought, oh, well,
Speaker 4: we can actually do a bit of a three sixty
Speaker 4: around the idea of how crime has become a form
Speaker 4: of entertainment. And there's a level in which there's a
Speaker 4: kind of meta meaning to the show, which is every
Speaker 4: now and then it comes to the surface, like episode
Speaker 4: two is about the ambitious, very handsome Phoenix Ray playing
Speaker 4: a detective who's in missing persons, but he wants to
Speaker 4: go to homicide, and so the crime becomes about you know,
Speaker 4: it goes from being something very personal in episode one,
Speaker 4: something that's kind of like more a career, an opportunity,
Speaker 4: career advancement, and episode two and the moral lesson of
Speaker 4: that is that to get into homicide, you need to
Speaker 4: have a dead body, and so someone has to die
Speaker 4: for you to be in homicide, and so that I
Speaker 4: think that was kind of interesting. And then we look
Speaker 4: at what a crime might mean to an ambitious and
Speaker 4: morally dubious journalist. You know like, which is not to
Speaker 4: say that all journalists like that, but that you know,
Speaker 4: there's a certain aspect of say, tabloid journalism, which kind
Speaker 4: of can speak too. So I was interested in that.
Speaker 4: And then and yet what I might mean someone very
Speaker 4: close to the situation, like the sister of the wife
Speaker 4: for some you know what this crime means to all
Speaker 4: those different people.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent?
Speaker 1: I think, you know, that's one of the things is
Speaker 1: when our minds lie to us, we all see the
Speaker 1: one thing and we all walk away with this piece
Speaker 1: of information. We all think we know the truth, but
Speaker 1: it's just our version of the truth. And I think
Speaker 1: that was the magic as well, which just kept unraveling
Speaker 1: with this whole story as it kept going on. And
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with my partner about him
Speaker 1: being on the phone and having a work persona and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't I was really allergic to it.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, you should be the same person
Speaker 1: to everyone, and he was like, it's not appropriate, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no. That is fascinating to unpack
Speaker 1: because we do have to wear different hats at different times,
Speaker 1: and we probably do react to things differently at different times.
Speaker 1: So it's a TV series about a murder mystery, yes,
Speaker 1: but it's also unpacking the human condition in a way
Speaker 1: which I think is psychologically really fascinating. And I think
Speaker 1: you can imagine after watching this show so many people
Speaker 1: sitting around the table discussing it.
Speaker 4: I hope. So you know, you just make work to
Speaker 4: try to contribute to a cultural conversation and to you know,
Speaker 4: try to get people to see what you see, or
Speaker 4: it's a bit of a provocation. The show's also has
Speaker 4: a morality tale element to it, and it's a bit
Speaker 4: of a it's a warning that you know, we can't
Speaker 4: take the information that we receive at face value all
Speaker 4: the time, and you know we should be aware of that. So,
Speaker 4: you know, I hope that it does trigger those conversations.
Speaker 2: I think it will.
Speaker 1: Being in your audience for as long as I have
Speaker 1: been watching pretty I think I've seen every single thing
Speaker 1: you've done. You probably need a restraining order against me.
Speaker 1: But I was going to ask what your favorite shows
Speaker 1: to watch another TV series over the last twelve months.
Speaker 4: I'm sort of a bit of a cliche, really. I
Speaker 4: think I like the things that everyone else has liked.
Speaker 4: I particularly loved Mayor of Easttown. I thought that was
Speaker 4: just a great deep dive into character with such a
Speaker 4: sophisticated understanding of the genre elements. I thought that they
Speaker 4: were combined incredibly well, very different from the way we
Speaker 4: did we tried to do it, but you know, it's
Speaker 4: very rewarding. And my partner and I just watched The
Speaker 4: Chair on Netflix, which we laughed. I mean, Sandra is
Speaker 4: just so real and sympathetic, and you know, we thought
Speaker 4: it was funny and compassionate and all of those things.
Speaker 4: So that I think that's the most recent thing that
Speaker 4: we watched. We watched The Serpent on Netflix as well,
Speaker 4: which was and I knew nothing about that story, so
Speaker 4: I was kind of like blown away.
Speaker 1: I missed out and watching that. My partner started watching
Speaker 1: it without me, and it's his favorite show of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, so he's telling.
Speaker 4: Me that it's incredible.
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm.
Speaker 1: Happy to dip back in and rewatch that whole thing again.
Speaker 1: Have to check out The Serpent. But yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that there, I think we must watch similar things. Sandra
Speaker 1: O's amazing, and I thought, you know, the thing with
Speaker 1: Mayor of Eastown that really blew me away as well,
Speaker 1: was I didn't really know too much about it going in,
Speaker 1: and I thought that was really great as well. And
Speaker 1: I think with clickbait, whilst I followed the production of
Speaker 1: you making that show, I tried to steer clear from
Speaker 1: knowing too much about it, which I think is something
Speaker 1: that has really saved people through COVID is being able
Speaker 1: to watch shows that they can disappear into.
Speaker 4: I think it's it's a testimony to the significance of
Speaker 4: the arts and culture to you know, how we keep
Speaker 4: our society sane and stable. And you know, I kind
Speaker 4: of hope that that's recognized as well at a sort
Speaker 4: of deeper level that actually, you know that we you know,
Speaker 4: we just occupy our time on this earth with stories.
Speaker 4: You know, that's that's actually how we deal with time
Speaker 4: a lot of the time. I think that that's important
Speaker 4: that we respect that.
Speaker 1: As such an impressive point of your career. You know,
Speaker 1: I love to know who's still influencing you. Who are
Speaker 1: your influencers. Is it the executive producers that you work with,
Speaker 1: Is that the writers? Is it what you're watching yourself? Like,
Speaker 1: I'd love to know what's influencing your content at the moment.
Speaker 4: I am influenced by the world. I sort of, you know,
Speaker 4: like I'm the kind of person who doesn't take many selfies.
Speaker 4: I do do it very occasionally, but I sort of
Speaker 4: am more interested in looking out than in so I
Speaker 4: kind of whenever I see something in the world that
Speaker 4: kind of moves or inspires or terrifies me, you know,
Speaker 4: my automatic instinct is to kind of turn it into
Speaker 4: a narrative to help me understand it, help me kind
Speaker 4: of accommodate it. And then sometimes those narratives are actually worthwhile,
Speaker 4: you know, sometimes they're kind of narratives that can speak
Speaker 4: to other people rather than just kind of you know,
Speaker 4: like little scribbles and you know, or notes on my iPhone.
Speaker 4: These days, it's always the world that inspires me, you know,
Speaker 4: because there's so much in it to try to understand
Speaker 4: or unpack or emotionally sort of resolve. Perfect example of
Speaker 4: that is fires from twenty nineteen, and you know, I
Speaker 4: just thought, how do I respond to this as a storyteller,
Speaker 4: as an artist. This is so big, and it's also
Speaker 4: so urgent for us to talk about these things, you know,
Speaker 4: to talk about the underlying questions of why those fires
Speaker 4: happened and what's happening to our planet, and so that
Speaker 4: became a TV show with Blinda Chaco, who's the showrunner.
Speaker 4: She and I kind of created this show around real experiences.
Speaker 8: The main road remains closed and there is now no
Speaker 8: way in or out. Assembly areas are established at the wharf.
Speaker 8: You are in danger and need to act immediately in
Speaker 8: order to survive.
Speaker 4: So that's kind of an example of how I kind
Speaker 4: of work.
Speaker 1: I loved the word urgent. I think it's really clever.
Speaker 1: I noticed Michael lucas he retweeted the trailer on Twitter
Speaker 1: and he used, Wow, this is powerful stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: it's so urgent to start off with that word didn't
Speaker 1: sit with me and didn't make them right amount of
Speaker 1: sense until it did, you know. And I think it
Speaker 1: is a really clever way of talking about something that
Speaker 1: happened here in Australia. But I think also with fires,
Speaker 1: which I read and I think will be great, is
Speaker 1: it was of such magnitude that you're not following just
Speaker 1: the same characters throughout the thing, you know, to give
Speaker 1: it that, to give viewers the understanding of how big
Speaker 1: that was for Australia, you've been able to tell that
Speaker 1: you know, different actors again over different chapters, which I
Speaker 1: think is going to be really clever. I haven't seen
Speaker 1: it yet, but I can't wait.
Speaker 4: Well, we just felt that it was something that we
Speaker 4: kind of have to talk about. You know. It's not
Speaker 4: the kind of subject matter that we can wait for
Speaker 4: ten years to then sort of look back, reflect back upon,
Speaker 4: and then sort of unpack. I think that, you know,
Speaker 4: we haven't got ten minutes. We've got to talk about
Speaker 4: it today soon as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Well, it looks pretty good. What makes a good writer
Speaker 1: in your mind, because you know, obviously you're often reaching
Speaker 1: out and working with all these different people. But what
Speaker 1: draws you to someone's writing ability?
Speaker 4: I think having a distinctive voice and an ability to
Speaker 4: dramatize the truth, you know, things that are kind of
Speaker 4: real and or that speak to me as truthful. It
Speaker 4: also requires a high degree of skill, because to dramatize
Speaker 4: is very different to expositing. So how do you say
Speaker 4: something without saying it? How do you create meaning through
Speaker 4: the things that are unspoken? And how do you create
Speaker 4: narrative out of moments and through meisenceine? You know, like
Speaker 4: I think that's a difficult and absolutely intoxicating thing to do.
Speaker 4: When when someone understands it, understands the the what a
Speaker 4: scene looks like, what a sequence looks like, what a
Speaker 4: what an act looks like, what a story looks like?
Speaker 4: You know, how do you make people feel real? You know?
Speaker 4: How do you make people feel both original but also relatable?
Speaker 4: You know? And how do they make sense?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: How do you make people make sense and still be
Speaker 4: unpredictable and surprising? And for me, probably the at the
Speaker 4: pinnacle of all of that is the ability to dramatize
Speaker 4: or show aspects of human behavior, of being a human being,
Speaker 4: which I once feel original and surprising but also recognizable.
Speaker 4: So it's about, you know, unpacking a kind of common
Speaker 4: truth that we all understand. Like the perfect example is
Speaker 4: Kate Winslet in mayor of Easttown. You know, like she
Speaker 4: plays such a complicated, messy, fucked up character, like she
Speaker 4: is all of these things all at once. You feel
Speaker 4: as though that is a real person, you know, through
Speaker 4: all of the artificts and construction that goes on in
Speaker 4: my business, you know, like it's all phony, Like it's
Speaker 4: all you know, you know, she's an actress, she's playing
Speaker 4: lines as someone else wrote. It's all not the truth.
Speaker 4: And yet in the performance, you feel as though you
Speaker 4: have been shown something, and there's a kind of intimacy
Speaker 4: to it which makes it feel like a gift. And
Speaker 4: there's a generosity in the act and all of those things.
Speaker 4: When a writer can do all of those things, then
Speaker 4: you know, like I immediately am drawn to them as
Speaker 4: someone who if I'm lucky, I get to work with them.
Speaker 1: I remember reading in The New Yorker a story about
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and she said that so much of what
Speaker 1: she would do with acting was to study the nuances
Speaker 1: the people do in their everyday life and then put
Speaker 1: them into her performances because people could see themselves reflected back.
Speaker 1: And I think when writing has done really well and you,
Speaker 1: as in the audience, feel like you are being reflected back,
Speaker 1: there's a kinship. There's a connection that happens that elevates
Speaker 1: all the work, you know. So I think writing is powerful,
Speaker 1: but also finding the actors to play them, you know,
Speaker 1: is powerful as well.
Speaker 4: I think good writing is compassionate, and that's what I
Speaker 4: kind of love about this medium the most. That because
Speaker 4: compassion is baked into the medium, because we have to
Speaker 4: see the world from other people's points of view, you know,
Speaker 4: unless you're doing a monologue. You know, you have to
Speaker 4: create characters who see things in a particular way, and
Speaker 4: then because drama is conflict, you have to create characters
Speaker 4: who see things in other ways. And so immediately you're
Speaker 4: creating opposing points of view, and to write three dimensional
Speaker 4: characters and not kind of stereotypes of cliches. You have
Speaker 4: to then go into the skin of those characters and
Speaker 4: see the world the way they see them, and then
Speaker 4: you have to find find some way of resolving the conflict.
Speaker 4: So you know that, and I think that that is
Speaker 4: a really useful thing for us to be doing right now,
Speaker 4: to try to understand the world from other people's points
Speaker 4: of view, to try to feel compassion or other human beings.
Speaker 4: I think that all of those things are things that
Speaker 4: I believe in, both as an artist or as a storyteller,
Speaker 4: but as a professional, but just as a person, a guy,
Speaker 4: you know, like like I believe that, you know, we
Speaker 4: should be trying to connect people to each other. And
Speaker 4: sometimes really simply if a work speaks to people from
Speaker 4: very different points of view, very different parts of the world,
Speaker 4: and that they can talk about the work together and
Speaker 4: find a connection, then there is value in that work.
Speaker 1: What about producers, because I mean, obviously you're aligning yourself
Speaker 1: with different producers, executive producers in different capacities. You know,
Speaker 1: do you look for a particular relationship when partnering with
Speaker 1: executive producers and producers in general?
Speaker 4: I think you have to feel a kind of kindredness
Speaker 4: to the people, like, you know, Like, I think I've
Speaker 4: reached a point in my career now where you know, like,
Speaker 4: I have a rule if if you wouldn't want to
Speaker 4: sit down and share a meal with that person, you
Speaker 4: shouldn't be working with them. I think that that's I
Speaker 4: think that's a reasonably good rule of thumb.
Speaker 1: I lost a lot of friends by working out, in
Speaker 1: my mind, not lost them. I stopped sort of catching
Speaker 1: up with certain people if I couldn't finish a beer
Speaker 1: while having a catch up with them without thinking I
Speaker 1: wish that I was at home watching this.
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's it.
Speaker 1: I'm not catching up with that person ever again, you know,
Speaker 1: which is a bit cruel, But hey, I.
Speaker 4: Think you you know, you have to try to create
Speaker 4: the sort of space where you can do your best work.
Speaker 4: You know, so you need to you need to understand
Speaker 4: yourself well enough to sort of think, well, you know,
Speaker 4: these are the under these conditions, I can do the
Speaker 4: best job that I can do. And then then you
Speaker 4: have to expand that so that other people also have that. So,
Speaker 4: you know, like and that's my role often in a show.
Speaker 4: It's to allow people to do their best possible work.
Speaker 4: And for me, trust is really important. So I need
Speaker 4: to do my best possible work. I need to trust
Speaker 4: someone and not feel like I'm sick and guessing them
Speaker 4: or misunderstanding them or which we're not even been seeing
Speaker 4: the same show. Like, I think that that that's almost
Speaker 4: you know, from what I've learned, it's a precondition for
Speaker 4: a disaster. So you know, like I feel like I
Speaker 4: know myself well enough now to kind of say, okay,
Speaker 4: I need these fundamental things to be able to do
Speaker 4: a good job, and so I look for those things
Speaker 4: in you know, the my collaborators, well.
Speaker 1: I think you you know, put finding yourself in this
Speaker 1: space here, you know, being that you're from Melbourne and
Speaker 1: making global stories. You know, what would you like to
Speaker 1: see as a next step for Australian television and film,
Speaker 1: you know, over the next couple of years.
Speaker 4: I think we're in a precarious time. Actually, even though
Speaker 4: there are all these great things happening and we've got
Speaker 4: so much talent here, we are a small country, you know,
Speaker 4: where government subsidized country, and we will always be because
Speaker 4: of our population. So we need government to support an
Speaker 4: Australian industry and to understand the entire ecosystem which makes
Speaker 4: up the Australian industry, from independent cinema to you know,
Speaker 4: little podcasts and web series, to publicly funded sort of
Speaker 4: public interest drama to comedies, to commercial television shows that
Speaker 4: reach broad audiences. Like we need all of that stuff
Speaker 4: to then provide the foundation for an industry that can
Speaker 4: also be global, you know, so all of those things
Speaker 4: go hand in hand, they come together. That it's not
Speaker 4: just it's not an either or choice. And I think
Speaker 4: an understanding of that, I think is really it's up
Speaker 4: to you know, all of us to try to speak
Speaker 4: about this and explain it and so that we can
Speaker 4: get the support that we need. And I think when
Speaker 4: that pays off, you know, the reward is significant, Like
Speaker 4: you get, say, for instance, you know, you know, through
Speaker 4: our publicly funded system, we have created actors. You know,
Speaker 4: we've given the opportunity for actors like Nicole Kidman, Kate Blanchett,
Speaker 4: Hugh Jackman, Russell Crowe, you like, you know, Guy Pierce,
Speaker 4: all those incredible names who can green light TV shows
Speaker 4: or green light movies and who can bring work back
Speaker 4: to Australia and then kind of create a virtuous circle
Speaker 4: of culture. You know, I think that that's kind of,
Speaker 4: you know, what I hope for.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's all this new generation as well. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I've seen two pieces of work just recently of Anatove
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, how amazing is this woman, like
Speaker 1: the news reader.
Speaker 2: She's just so good in this show.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, we do have all of
Speaker 1: those people like Nicole Kidman bringing work here, but it'll
Speaker 1: be interesting to see what the other generation will do
Speaker 1: on top of that. And then looking for diversity in.
Speaker 4: Story, well, you know, in Fires we have Eliza Scanlon
Speaker 4: and Hunter Page lock Art. You know, like they're both
Speaker 4: brilliant and they're the two central actors in the whole series.
Speaker 1: My last question that I ask all of my guests
Speaker 1: before they go is what's an amazing story from behind
Speaker 1: the scenes in some of the shows that you've made
Speaker 1: or one of the shows you've made that we're as
Speaker 1: an audience might appreciate.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a COVID story, and I feel a
Speaker 4: little bit awkward about saying it, but I will anyway
Speaker 4: because it's you than we had an actor six inches
Speaker 4: between inch, not only between episodes, between scenes, because we
Speaker 4: shot some of the scenes before our break, and then
Speaker 4: we had the break, and in that time it came
Speaker 4: back and he was six inches taller. So he goes
Speaker 4: up the stairs, he's six inches shorter, comes down the stairs,
Speaker 4: he's six inches taller, and he goes back up the
Speaker 4: stairs again, and he's six inches shorter. But no one
Speaker 4: seems to have noticed it yet. So like I'm kind
Speaker 4: of hoping that we got away with it.
Speaker 2: I'm living for all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: I always think it's so funny, and you know, as creators,
Speaker 1: you always worry about this stuff that happens behind the
Speaker 1: scenes and hope that no one ever notices it.
Speaker 2: And most of the time they don't.
Speaker 4: Also, you know, to a good thing if people don't know,
Speaker 4: if people don't notice that, if the people do notice it,
Speaker 4: then there's probably because they've got other things on their mind.
Speaker 1: Well, I just want to say thank you so much
Speaker 1: for taking the time to talk about clickbait on Netflix.
Speaker 1: I hope that if people are listening to this and
Speaker 1: they haven't seen it, that they decide to go and
Speaker 1: watch it because there's so much to unpack. It's one
Speaker 1: of those shows that I think people be talking about
Speaker 1: for quite some time. And I want to thank you
Speaker 1: for the diversity in the work that you have been
Speaker 1: a part of in your career. It has just been
Speaker 1: an amazing thing to be an Australian and see someone
Speaker 1: tell global stories like this that are so accessible.
Speaker 4: I hope so I hope people respond to it and
Speaker 4: like it. That's really all you can just make an
Speaker 4: offer and if people either accept the offer or they don't,
Speaker 4: so you know, we've been thrilled with how this show
Speaker 4: has been received. Honestly, it's kind of mind blowing.
Speaker 2: I love thanks so much again. It's been fantastic to
Speaker 2: be able to talk.
Speaker 4: To you, lovely to see you a man.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys for sticking around. I absolutely love talking to
Speaker 1: Tony Yes, and I hope that you guys can let
Speaker 1: me know what you think in the Fiel feedback. This
Speaker 1: week on the Box, though, I was lucky enough to
Speaker 1: chat with Josh and Luke from the Block. I've already
Speaker 1: posted that episode as my spinoff podcast during the week,
Speaker 1: and I really would appreciate the feedback on that chat
Speaker 1: with the boys. Fans versus favorite is really heating up
Speaker 1: and I really noticed the popularity of the block based
Speaker 1: on the reception of that episode. As you guys know,
Speaker 1: I love a podcast recommendation, and this week I would
Speaker 1: love to shout out to High Flyers, which is a
Speaker 1: great Melbourne based podcast which talks to people who have
Speaker 1: made a success out of their career. This week the
Speaker 1: guest was Rosie Thomas from Project Rocket and it was
Speaker 1: an absolutely fascinating chat. As for what I've been watching
Speaker 1: on the box, I've been glued to a lot of
Speaker 1: free to wear TV shows. The Voice and Survivor are
Speaker 1: in their final weeks and this much good television has
Speaker 1: really kept me from going insane during lockdown. I've also
Speaker 1: rewound back and started to watch the series Succession after
Speaker 1: a friend of mine laughed at me and said, I
Speaker 1: can't believe you haven't seen it. So I hopefully will
Speaker 1: be up to date ready for season three, which is
Speaker 1: coming out out soon, and hopefully we'll cover that in
Speaker 1: a future episode. Well that's it for me this week.
Speaker 1: I will be back around Wednesday with a pop up
Speaker 1: episode featuring an actor, presenter, or reality TV star, and
Speaker 1: then next week we'll be unpacking another fascinating episode as
Speaker 1: we go behind the scenes of television. Thanks again for
Speaker 1: tuning in. I hope you guys have a great week.