1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: You know I tell this story, and I know that 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: my friend Simon Senek tells it also. When I first 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: met him, he sat in my office for half an 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: hour and talked about his idea for half an hour, 5 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: and at the end of the half hour, he thought 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: that I was not impressed for some reason. I must 7 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: have had something on my mind, but I was dazzled, 8 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: and I said, this guy is going to achieve great things. 9 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: We must publish his book. And we made him an 10 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: offer the next day and we were able to get 11 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: the book, and we've been working together for the last 12 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: ten years very successfully. 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 14 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 17 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: obsessed with finding ways to optimize. 18 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: My work day. Today's interview is another. 19 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: One that I recorded at TED twenty nineteen when I 20 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: was over in Vancouver for the five. 21 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 3: Day conference a few weeks ago. 22 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: And as I've mentioned in episodes, there were meeting rooms, 23 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: but none of them were soundproof, so there is a 24 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 2: little bit of background noise that you might be able 25 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: to hear in the back of it, although I think 26 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: we've gotten rid of most of it. 27 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: In the editing process. 28 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: Now, have you ever wanted to write a book and 29 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: get it published, or maybe you've already done so. Now, 30 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: if you have any interest in this field, I think 31 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 2: that you'll like today's interview, which is with Adrian Zachhoim. 32 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: Adrian is the founder and publisher of Portfolio, a business 33 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: book imprint at Penguin Random House. At Portfolio, Adrian has 34 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: published best selling books such as Purple Cow by Seth Godon, 35 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: Start with Why by Simon Sinek, and The Smartest Guys 36 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: in the Room by Bethany MacLean and Peter elkand more 37 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: recently they published Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport, who I 38 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: had on the show recently. And they've also published many 39 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: of Ryan Holiday's books, Who's one of my favorite writers. 40 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: So I seriously feel like every second great business book 41 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: that I read is published by Portfolio. So I was 42 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: very keen to talk to Adrian about his approach to 43 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: book pitching and making decisions about which books to publish. 44 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: So this is a shortish interview episode because we were 45 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: squeezing it into a very short break during TED. But 46 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: I think it's a really relevant one if you're a 47 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: current or aspiring writer. 48 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 3: So I hope you enjoy it. And now over to Adrian. 49 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: Well, Adrian, it's great to be sitting here. As I said, 50 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: you've published some of my absolute favorite books. 51 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: Oh really, so that's good to know. 52 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to know, like for you, what 53 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: makes a great book, because you would have read a 54 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: lot of them. 55 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: I imagine there are many criteria. There are the ideas, 56 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: of course, there's the power of the author's voice. There's 57 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: the place it fits into the conversation. That's probably one 58 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: of the more important and most significant criteria. We're engaging 59 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: with authors at the very beginning of the process, or 60 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: quite early in the process. The book still has to 61 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: be written, of course, and so we're making a calculation 62 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: about how the national conversation about the topic is going 63 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: to progress over the time between when we engage with 64 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: the author and when the book is likely to be published. 65 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting one because it's generally about sort 66 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: of eighteen months from reading the book proposal taking show. 67 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: I mean eighteen months or two years. I mean, it 68 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: can be shorter, but generally it's about that long. 69 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So part of your job is kind of being 70 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: a futurist. 71 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: I guess, well, in a very short term sense. Yeah, 72 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: but certainly you don't want to publish a book that 73 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: is going to be really completely out of date by 74 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: the time you publish it. And so, of course books 75 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,279 Speaker 1: we're always looking for books that have a certain durability. 76 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: Ideas that are really better served by a book than 77 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: they are by a podcast, or by a blog post, 78 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: or by a MinC of zine article, or by by 79 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of other media that come to 80 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: market faster. 81 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: Having been in the business for so long, is that 82 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: now pretty easy for you to spot or like? 83 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 3: Is it a gut instinct thing? 84 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: Every book is different. Some books have ideas that are 85 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: obviously perishable but vital while they're still fresh, and other 86 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: books really seem to be very durable and the time 87 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: to market is less of a concern and you just 88 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: have to make an evaluation about the book as you're 89 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: considering it. 90 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, And how do you make a decision if you've 91 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: got a process for weighing up whether to say yes 92 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: to a book proposal or no. 93 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: Well, the thing you need to remember is that the 94 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: process for acquisition for books is not happening in isolation. 95 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,239 Speaker 1: It's a very competitive process, and there are ideas being 96 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: proposed by individuals often being represented by literary agents, as 97 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: well as a constant outreach from us from my team 98 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: to authors and to institutions that might have books in them. 99 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: And on the topic of book pictures, because I would imagine, 100 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: even though you're proactively searching out writers, I imagine you 101 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: would receive a lot of pitches like on paper, person 102 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: like every day, like every day, hell, Like, how many 103 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: pitches are you receiving like in a typical week. 104 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: Let's say, you know, I shud her to think. I mean, 105 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: if they don't all come to me personally, but I 106 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: would say to our my organ you know, my team, 107 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, A dozens maybe behindred I don't know, 108 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: something like that. 109 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: Wow, what makes a great pitch for you? 110 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: Like, is there maybe one that you've received in the 111 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: last I don't know, six twelve months that was a 112 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 2: standout that you know, you could talk about. 113 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: I've received many extraordinary pitches, and some of them were 114 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: going to be publishing, and some of them, to be honest, 115 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: other publishers are publisher publishing because, as I said, it's 116 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: a competitive marketplace and everybody assigns a different value to 117 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: every book. We don't find out really what the book 118 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: is worth until after it's published. And there are of 119 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: course many people out there who would say even then, 120 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: we don't really know what it's worth because it wasn't 121 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: published the right way, or if it was the wrong 122 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: moment or whatever, the book might not have had, you know, 123 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: the success that it should have had. I mean, I'm 124 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: thinking right now of a proposal I got for a 125 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: book that was that was just about written, that was 126 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: extraordinarily good. I mean, here's an interesting quandary. There are 127 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: there are there are pitches for books that take the 128 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: form of a finished manuscript. There are proposals that take 129 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: the form of a professionally crafted proposal that has been 130 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: crafted by a pro and and and refined and refined 131 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: and refined so that it paints a picture of a 132 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: non existent book as if that it actually existed. But 133 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't. And many times these proposals sweep us off 134 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: our feet, and then we find out that actually there 135 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: really wasn't a book there. And other instances, well, I mean, 136 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: I remember, you know I tell this story, and I 137 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: know that my friend Simon Sinek tells it also. When 138 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: I first met him, he sat in my office for 139 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: half an hour and talked about his idea for half 140 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: an hour, and at the end of the half hour, 141 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 1: he thought that I was not impressed for some reason. 142 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: I must have had something on my mind, but I 143 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: was dazzled, and I said, this guy is going to 144 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: achieve great things when we must publish his book. And 145 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: we made him an offer the next day, and we 146 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: were able to get the book, and we've been working 147 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: together for the last ten years very successfully. But there 148 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: was no as I recollect that, there was no proposal 149 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: at all. It was just a pitch. 150 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 3: Wow, what do you do you remember? Like what it 151 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: was about that pitch that dazzled you. 152 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: Well, in that case, it was really about his He 153 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: talked a lot about Apple Computer, and he talked about 154 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: how the other computer companies were in the business of 155 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,119 Speaker 1: making machines, and Apple was in the business of making 156 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: innovations and changing the way people operated in the world, 157 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: and therefore they they just were not competing with any 158 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: of their competitors. And I thought that was a useful insight. 159 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 3: How much of it comes down to I guess, like 160 00:07:58,480 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: you know, when you. 161 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: Hear it and marlessly explained by the way I. 162 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: Could imagine, because I could imagine, like the personality of 163 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: the author in that kind of case is going to 164 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: be helping me. 165 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: He turned out to be a great explainer. 166 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so like if you had to kind of, 167 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: I guess put it down to certain ingredients like that 168 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: make a great picture. There's certain things you know that 169 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: I guess you're looking for or that you know when 170 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: you see you kind of think, yeah, that seems pretty good. 171 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: The voice a voice of authority as authoritative for some reason, 172 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: because people really want to read books that they can 173 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: think where they believe that what they're hearing is is 174 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: based on something more significant than somebody's opinion, a perspective 175 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: that is possible and unfamiliar, and even a little bit 176 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: that stabilizing so that it can light up a formally 177 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: unclear or obscure idea utility, an idea set that is 178 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: obviously useful for some reason, perhaps because we haven't heard 179 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: it before, or because we've never heard it put that 180 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: way before. Provocative makes us think about things that are 181 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: outside of the that are about the book and beyond 182 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: the book, And I think this applies to a lot 183 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: of the writers and books that we've been most successful 184 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: with over the years, not just Simon, but many other 185 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: yeah right, yeah, whose work we've admired. 186 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: And what we like. 187 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: What would surprise people about the way that you work? 188 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: If someone was kind of just sitting on your shoulder 189 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: watching a typical week in your life, what would they 190 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: find surprising. 191 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: I have to admit that before I before I worked 192 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: in publishing, I really couldn't imagine what people did all 193 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: day because they thought books just sort of happened. Since 194 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: that's not the truth, and since books are the result 195 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: of the work of many hands and an intense collaboration, 196 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: I think perhaps what people would be surprised by would 197 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: be the amount of time and energy and care that 198 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: we and the authors put in to deeply understanding how 199 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: to talk about a book, how to bring what's on 200 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: the outside of a book into the into alignment with 201 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: what's inside the book, to expedite the process so that 202 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: people can get how the book can be useful to 203 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: them in a nanosecond, which is really all the time 204 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: we have, and it is a very free form, very 205 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: unstructured process a lot of it, because every book is 206 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: a you know, it's a beastpoke object that comes into 207 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: existence by some mysterious. 208 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 2: Process I can imagine, like just all the complexities. Like people, 209 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: I would probably be surprised that it takes like eighteen 210 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: months to two years from concept to getting a book on. 211 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: To get it written then and then to talk about 212 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: what it should look like and what it should feel like, 213 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: and what we should say about it, and how people 214 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: might think about it and how people will talk to 215 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: each other about it. All of that has to be 216 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: and is endlessly discussed endlessly. 217 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: And at a conference like Ted, I'm curious, like, what's 218 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: your You're a regular Ted, I think you are, Hue, 219 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: give me. 220 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: A few times number three, Yeah. 221 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 3: Okay, what's what's your approach to the wake? Like, you know, 222 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 3: what are you looking forward? 223 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, it's I'm going to be I'm 224 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: going to be listening to one hundred whatever, however many 225 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: speakers one hundred or so. I mean, I'm here to 226 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: let those wash over me and to be inspired and 227 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: to be instructed and to learn things that I didn't 228 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: think I thought I needed to know. And also, you know, 229 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: to hear people speaking on subjects that I have opinions about, 230 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: and then I'm well informed about because it's a mix 231 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: of all those things. And then also this incredible community 232 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: of very smart universe people who have all kinds of 233 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: opinions and many of whom And then I encounter writers 234 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: that I work with that I want to work with, 235 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: it I will work with who I'm currently working with, 236 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: and our whole world, our community of people who are 237 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: involved the business media, and and the writing and the 238 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: promotion and the probligation of books, the selling of books, 239 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: the you know, every aspect of our world. So it's 240 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: a little bit like having the opportunity to interact with 241 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: everybody in this fantastically stimulating setting. It's certainly fun. I 242 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: won't pretend that it's not fun. But usually I come 243 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: away with, you know, we usually come away with one 244 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: or two books that we're going to publish, and the 245 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: opportunity to either work with an author on a book 246 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: or to discuss a book or so it advances the 247 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: clause in a lot of ways. 248 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: And look, my final question for you is what's the 249 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: best book that you write in the last year or 250 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 2: one of I just. 251 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: Finished a book called Americana, a novel about by an 252 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: African writer set in Africa that I thought was absolutely extraordinary. 253 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,479 Speaker 1: I'm just in the middle of reading a new biography 254 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: of Winston Churchill, which I'm taking a lot of notes on. 255 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: I'm just finishing up reading the final draft of Simon 256 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: Sinok's new book for Us, which is fantastic. 257 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 3: When's that coming up in the fall? 258 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: So I have the privilege of reading fiction and on 259 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: fiction biography as well as business books. 260 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: Well, look, Adrian, it's been so interesting chatting to you 261 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: and hearing about the world inside portfolio. 262 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 3: So thank you so much for your time. 263 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: My pleasure. It was good. 264 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 3: Fine, that's it for today's show. 265 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: I hope that if you are an aspiring or current writer, 266 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 2: that you got one or two useful tips out of 267 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: my short chat with Adrian. And as usual, if you're 268 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: enjoying how I work, please leave a review in Apple 269 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you listen to this podcast. It is 270 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: fantastic getting feedback from listeners such as yourself, and it 271 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: brings a huge smile to my face. 272 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 3: So thank you. 273 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: If you're one of the now many people that have 274 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: left a review, it's very very appreciated. 275 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: So that's it for today and I will see you 276 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: next time.