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Speaker 1: Hello. You're listening to Kobe time, a podcast series on

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Speaker 1: markets and economies from DBS group research. I'm time regret.

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Speaker 1: Chief economist, Welcome to our 84th episode.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is unlike anything in the 2.5 year history

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Speaker 1: of compute time hearing ming and go away chun are

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Speaker 1: the duo behind what I believe to be the most

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Speaker 1: widely followed financial literacy, social media platforms in Singapore

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Speaker 1: under the banner of the woke salaryman. Let me spell

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Speaker 1: it out for you. The tee hee wook salaryman all

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Speaker 1: one word. Their content is followed in impressive numbers on instagram.

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Speaker 1: They have over 357,000 followers on telegram. There are nearly

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Speaker 1: 37,000 subscribe

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Speaker 1: on facebook. The platform is listed under finance blog with

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Speaker 1: the description important knowledge for people who earn less than

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Speaker 1: $4500 a month on telegram. The description is a little

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Speaker 1: more evocative, save money and other cool ship and then

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Speaker 1: retire before 65. Hopefully I think this is going to

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Speaker 1: be fun reading and watching. Welcome to covid Time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: That was a very lofty introduction and I hope that

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Speaker 1: we leave the expectation

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Speaker 2: can live up to the high,

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Speaker 1: We were exchanging messages last night and I said, I

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Speaker 1: have very high expectations and I'm sure you'll surpass it.

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Speaker 1: And I got a little sweaty emoji in back.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, let's begin with the beginning. All superhero stories

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Speaker 1: have an original story. So let's start with yours. How

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Speaker 1: did it all start? And who does what in your,

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Speaker 1: in this dynamic duo of yours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So I think I used to work in advertising I

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Speaker 1: think back in 2018 and I think one thing that

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Speaker 1: people always ask me was the money because I I

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Speaker 1: was quite

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Speaker 1: money.

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Speaker 2: Money, money

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Speaker 1: minded. I was saying you guys should save money, you

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Speaker 1: guys invest and when I show people like the resources

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Speaker 1: that I used to learn more about finances, they always

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Speaker 1: say like you know this too boring, I can't really

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Speaker 1: so I thought like how do we reach out to

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Speaker 1: these very short attention span people, you

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Speaker 2: know, you

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Speaker 1: know just short short attention span people like people don't

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Speaker 1: want to read through like

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Speaker 1: Maybe 100 words of text, which is quite a low

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Speaker 1: bar but still these people exist and they could be

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Speaker 1: young or they could be all it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be only. So I thought we could find a way

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Speaker 1: to bring like emotion and we find a way to

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Speaker 1: add visual to it. You could actually make for quite

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Speaker 1: a potent combination. So I think sometime in 2019 I

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Speaker 1: wrote an article about how to save 100 grand before

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Speaker 1: you turn 30.

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Speaker 1: And then we shared it as an article was very

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Speaker 1: quite a long article that was written in non jargon,

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Speaker 1: e non non jargon kind of kind of prose. And

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Speaker 1: then I thought we should like you know what this

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Speaker 1: actually did well even with even without those fancy images

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Speaker 1: we talked about if you drew something, I think he

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Speaker 1: could do even better and then he drew it. And

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Speaker 1: then

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Speaker 1: The first comic that we created got around like 6000

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Speaker 1: shares on the first

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Speaker 2: on facebook. It's really good

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Speaker 1: facebook. So that was quite an impressive like launch. And

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Speaker 1: then

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Speaker 1: I think from there we realized that the platform had

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Speaker 1: a lot of potential and we just have been going

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Speaker 1: at it ever since

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Speaker 2: because like before that even happened like, I mean we're friends,

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Speaker 2: we're friends first and then we were friends from Polly.

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Speaker 2: You know, we go way back and we've always socially

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Speaker 2: met up then we always been talking about like, because

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Speaker 2: I mean we're also a little bit tired of the

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Speaker 2: rat race. We always the topic whenever we go, we

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Speaker 2: just invariably become how do we make money? How do

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Speaker 2: we start

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Speaker 2: Business? How do we escape the things? So we've always

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Speaker 2: been trying to trying things here and there also sometimes

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Speaker 2: together sometimes on our own. So when this thing happened

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Speaker 2: and we got 6000 shares, we were like, this is

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Speaker 2: it like we can maybe make something else. So from

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Speaker 2: then on we sort of got the idea that we

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Speaker 2: might be able to make a company.

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Speaker 1: So the initial plan was that we used Cinnamon as

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Speaker 1: like a portfolio piece will show people that hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what we know how to simplify complex things and

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Speaker 1: make people care about possibly boring subject.

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Speaker 1: So we would use this as evidence to convince clients

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Speaker 1: to let us run their social media accounts and create

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Speaker 1: social media content

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Speaker 2: or do workshops with

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I do like corporate training. I think along the

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Speaker 1: way like the, we found out that creating content that

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Speaker 1: helps educate people

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Speaker 1: makes more sense and it's something that we would rather

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Speaker 1: spend most of time doing. So we have kind of

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Speaker 1: devoted to sponsor content. So before 29 women you said

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Speaker 1: that you were in the advertising world, we shouldn't given

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Speaker 1: your drawing expertise, what was your background before that? So

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Speaker 2: Actually my dream since I was 14 years old was

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Speaker 2: to be an animator, I wanted to write and direct

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Speaker 2: and make animated films and I went to school, I

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Speaker 2: got a

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Speaker 1: bachelor's

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Speaker 2: degree in arts majoring animation. And I also went on

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Speaker 2: to get a postgraduate Master's degree in measuring animation that

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Speaker 2: I wrote about,

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Speaker 2: I wrote about expressing Singapore national identity through animation, which

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Speaker 2: is a very specific thing, you know, so I kind

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Speaker 2: of realized, you know, when it was close to graduation

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Speaker 2: time that there are a lot of things I want

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Speaker 2: in life that actually a career in animation would make

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Speaker 2: it a bit more difficult for me to afford because Singapore.

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Speaker 2: I compared to our regional neighbors right? Of course of

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Speaker 2: living is very high and animation specifically is a very

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Speaker 2: labor intensive job. So compared

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Speaker 2: to our foreign neighbors like Philippines Malaysia Indonesia, which are

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Speaker 2: all like big hubs of animation of themselves, right? Like

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Speaker 2: it's quite difficult for you to do something and then

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Speaker 2: still have a certain amount of salary and I, when

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Speaker 2: I was closing to graduation I looked at the price

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Speaker 2: of a house would be or if I ever wanted

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Speaker 2: to own something nice like a car, you know, how

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Speaker 2: much that would be. And I realized that actually it

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Speaker 2: would be a really uphill too.

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Speaker 2: So I actually never actually, even though I got a

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Speaker 2: postgraduate degree in innovation, I've never been an animator full time,

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Speaker 2: I've never worked that as a job. I felt like

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Speaker 2: I kind of sell out a little bit, but in

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Speaker 2: a roundabout way, you know, doing the work salary man

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Speaker 2: has been the closest I've ever gotten to being able

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Speaker 2: to make my own visual story. So in fact what

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Speaker 2: I did was instead instead of just

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Speaker 1: like being

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Speaker 2: a particular, like forcing myself to do animation, I realized

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Speaker 2: that one of the

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Speaker 2: bigger that is a diagram thing in animation is this

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Speaker 2: small thing, there's a bigger thing around and that's visual storytelling.

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Speaker 2: So it's really cool that we have the work salaryman,

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Speaker 2: I can sort of apply what I love about visual

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Speaker 2: storytelling in a comic way too, you know what I

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Speaker 2: loved about animation last time. So in a roundabout way

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Speaker 2: it has sort of happened for me as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the visual storytelling part is what is

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Speaker 1: really, really powerful about your platform question about the name

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Speaker 1: of the platform because people coming from say a western

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Speaker 1: persuasion think of the word woke, you know a bit

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Speaker 1: of a loaded word these days. I think yours is

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Speaker 1: more of a sincere interpretation of that word, but walk

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Speaker 1: us through, why did you name the platform work salaryman?

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Speaker 1: So I think number one, I think if we follow

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Speaker 1: like the western interpretation, I think that there's definitely some

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Speaker 1: negative connotation there,

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Speaker 1: but the singaporean page and like a page that is

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Speaker 1: in Asia, I think it's important not to kind of

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Speaker 1: take a Eurocentric view of the world right? Like I

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Speaker 1: mean I think people are free to define what the

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Speaker 1: word means to them as long as it doesn't like

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Speaker 1: to put in a very crude way to shoot on

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Speaker 1: what other people think of the word and I think

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Speaker 1: that's what

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Speaker 1: the word work in our context means. I think locally

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Speaker 1: when you say like oh I wish I woke up sooner,

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Speaker 1: this means like I wish I realized sooner actually there

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Speaker 1: has a lot of similarities with what the western meaning

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Speaker 1: of the word also means because if I'm not wrong

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Speaker 1: in some ways, the western definition is to like something

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Speaker 1: along the lines of being aware,

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Speaker 2: social

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Speaker 1: social awakening. So I guess this is like a financial awakening.

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Speaker 1: So I guess

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Speaker 1: in a way we wanted to portray the idea of

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Speaker 1: an awakening and I guess when you are creating, creating

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Speaker 1: a brand on social media using a word like the

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Speaker 1: awakened salaryman sounds kind of, I

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Speaker 2: mean it's not like the work salaryman very easy to say.

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Speaker 2: Also awakened salaryman is even

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Speaker 1: more so we thought, I mean we think it's acceptable

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Speaker 1: and I think at that time it was quite a,

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Speaker 1: it was quite a, it

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Speaker 2: was not suitable when we

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Speaker 1: came. Exactly. Right, that's right. Of course evolved since then.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we often get the question, will you ever

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Speaker 1: renamed himself adding when the time comes?

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Speaker 2: We might possibly

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Speaker 1: consider, we're always open

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Speaker 1: to to that happening. But at the present I think

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Speaker 1: there's no need yet. Right. I don't, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's hurting your reach our popularity at all. But the

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Speaker 1: second part of the name salaryman, which is a japanese expression.

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Speaker 1: So why did you pick that part as well?

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Speaker 1: Wow. Why did we pick that? I think being a

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Speaker 1: salaryman would be the epitome of what people consider being

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Speaker 1: stuck in the risk of being physically. So I think

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Speaker 1: since our page initially focused a lot on financial independence,

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Speaker 1: I think there was quite a natural thing to do.

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Speaker 1: But most importantly, if you put the word salary man,

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Speaker 1: it kind of has like a decent ring to it.

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Speaker 1: So I would say when we cannot name, we did

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Speaker 1: not put a lot of thought into it at the moment,

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Speaker 1: actually

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Speaker 1: we just want to do something that was some catchy

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Speaker 1: and something memorable. Okay, I'll let go of the discussion

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Speaker 1: on the title except for one more question, which is

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Speaker 1: the telegram, it is work salary people. Yeah. What did

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Speaker 1: you do that? All right. All right. So you see

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Speaker 1: when we are writing things we are because we are male, right?

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Speaker 1: But I think on telegram we wanted to be more

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Speaker 1: inclusive I guess. I mean we're trying around being inclusive.

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Speaker 1: So we put work salary people I guess

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Speaker 1: just I mean just to test how you be received

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Speaker 1: by I think ah most people that just doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the same natural ring to the term salaryman which exists organically.

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Speaker 1: So we have considered naming ourselves the world thera people.

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Speaker 1: But if you think about it from from what is

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Speaker 1: logical and what exists in the real world that that

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Speaker 1: just isn't as

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Speaker 2: just trying it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So look guys in this podcast, every time I finish

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Speaker 1: a podcast after a week or so I can go

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Speaker 1: and look at this amazing data dashboard that the provider

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Speaker 1: of the software of the platform provides to me so

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Speaker 1: I can see who in the world is listening to

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Speaker 1: my podcast, how long all that kind of stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you get very similar data. So you have

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Speaker 1: a very good sense of who your audience happens to be.

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Speaker 1: So give us a sense of your demographic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think right now it's mostly still mostly singaporeans,

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Speaker 1: but we do have like growing amount like numbers of

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Speaker 1: readers in places in Southeast asia in Australia, the US

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Speaker 1: and actually surprisingly the U. K. As well. So I

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Speaker 1: think

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Speaker 1: we are getting a bit of a global audience. I

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Speaker 1: think because a lot of things we talk about young

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Speaker 1: people actually facing the same problems around the world, which

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Speaker 1: is why, which is why they find the content relatable.

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Speaker 1: I think issues such as inequality, you know, expensive housing,

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Speaker 1: foreign talent competing with them for their jobs unstable markets,

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Speaker 1: the rise of Cryptocurrency, I think these are all quite

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Speaker 1: the hot topics, at least if you live in any

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Speaker 1: major

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Speaker 2: metropolitan

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Speaker 1: area in the world,

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Speaker 2: I think our audience also skills a bit younger but

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Speaker 2: but I'm not so young where we can still like

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Speaker 2: very effectively reach young people who have not other work yet.

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Speaker 2: So I think around like 18 to 35 ish, that's

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Speaker 2: usually the range that we hit that we've also tried

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Speaker 2: to sort of make content for specific niche, for example,

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Speaker 2: women specifically or like we also

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Speaker 2: try to sometimes when we have something to say about

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Speaker 2: something that because money is not just money that money

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Speaker 2: overlaps with a lot of things like societal issues or

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Speaker 2: relationship issues and things like that. So we've also made

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Speaker 2: pieces talking about like relationships between younger and older people

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Speaker 2: and sometimes, you know, we might write in a way

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Speaker 2: that is on purpose to incense and kind of hope

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Speaker 2: and then make people a bit like you see the

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Speaker 2: headlines are a bit like angry, but when you read

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Speaker 2: it then there's more like objectivity to it later on,

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Speaker 2: you know, so we do reach out

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Speaker 2: now and again to sort of reach beyond our demographic. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And is it a responsive audience? You get a lot

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Speaker 1: of feedback from your listeners and viewers? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: it's a double because like the feedback is both very,

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Speaker 1: can be very kind and that because sometimes people do

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Speaker 1: disagree like humanly with us, so the feedback can be

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Speaker 1: pretty nasty nasty as well.

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Speaker 2: I think part of running a page like this sometimes

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Speaker 2: is to understand

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Speaker 1: that

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Speaker 2: um

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Speaker 2: It's different because like last time if you imagine like

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Speaker 2: if you went back to say like the golden age

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Speaker 2: of cinema in the 1940s, like there's no way in

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Speaker 2: like somebody

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Speaker 1: can,

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Speaker 1: I

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Speaker 2: don't know, a private message clark gable, if they didn't

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Speaker 2: like movies, you know, they had to write a letter

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Speaker 2: will be sent to his team and then they will

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Speaker 2: read it and it's angry and just toss it away,

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Speaker 2: but now it's so direct that everybody can reach you

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Speaker 2: and actually like we read almost all the comments that

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Speaker 2: people put, but we just don't have the time to

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Speaker 2: reply to all of them, but you know, when we

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Speaker 2: first started and we started getting traction and we started

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Speaker 2: getting our first hit of like negative comments,

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Speaker 2: which is actually a symptom of being successful because when

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Speaker 2: you first hit with the audience, right, it's usually people

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Speaker 2: who find you because they like your stuff, but when

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Speaker 2: they start sharing your stuff more and more, you will

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Speaker 2: start to reach people that naturally don't like your content

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Speaker 2: or they're not kind of in the same frequency that

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Speaker 2: you're at, and that is a good thing because sometimes

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Speaker 2: you can convert some of them or change their minds

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Speaker 2: a lot of times, they also get angry and that

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Speaker 2: is actually just part and parcel of what we do.

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Speaker 2: So we have to

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Speaker 2: sometimes remind one another when we see comments that we

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Speaker 2: don't like to remember the long goal that this is

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Speaker 2: a part of process that, you know, we're not influences,

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Speaker 2: we're not playing that game, but we still have that

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Speaker 2: same sort of thing that comes at us, so as

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Speaker 2: a mental health kind of thing, we have to know

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Speaker 2: how to zoom out. I understand that, you know, these

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Speaker 2: are sometimes people who might have bad days and whatever,

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Speaker 2: so sure effective is so important.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes people are just projecting their insecurities.

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Speaker 1: So I do

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Speaker 2: it right, you

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Speaker 1: know, in the comments are always rational, but of course

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Speaker 1: it definitely hurts you a bit. Sometimes sometimes it does

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Speaker 1: cut quite deeply, I think in the long term we

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Speaker 1: recognize that this is a privilege of reaching a large audience.

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Speaker 1: For example, if I had an audience of two people,

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Speaker 1: I mean the likelihood of them

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Speaker 1: Disagree with me or disliking me is really low. But

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Speaker 1: let's say I reach like three million people, even 1%

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Speaker 1: of the audience will be 30,000

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Speaker 2: dollars who are angry,

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Speaker 1: Angry at you disliking you. And I think it's just

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Speaker 1: part of part of the job I guess right. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the explosive aspect of social media that 1%

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Speaker 1: can be so loud that it will take away the

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Speaker 1: validation you get from the 99% unless you're a very

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Speaker 1: strong personality. Right? And we see that both in terms

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Speaker 1: of

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Speaker 1: you know, business content as well as personal content. Whenever

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Speaker 1: people get criticized, they put a very large negative way

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Speaker 1: to that as opposed to you know, words of appreciation

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Speaker 1: or praise. I'm gonna talk a little bit about your

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Speaker 1: content but those who are not listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: but watching it on Youtube, they'll be seeing you with

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Speaker 1: a background of an office, some activity behind a few boxes.

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Speaker 1: Where are you?

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Speaker 1: We

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Speaker 2: are at a place called Park in Singapore. It's a

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Speaker 2: relatively new office. It's a nice place, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: new were the first tenants here. We stepped it up

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Speaker 2: during the covid pandemic. So I think we got it

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Speaker 2: for a good price and that's a very important thing

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Speaker 2: to us. You know, we have to lift the values

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Speaker 2: that we preach, you know about like spending less than

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Speaker 2: you earn, you know, so it's quite bad that I

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Speaker 2: have a lot of ideas being artistic person, I want

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Speaker 2: to do it up nicely, but also look at the

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Speaker 2: cost and maybe we,

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Speaker 2: we save that for later. So it's a, I would

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Speaker 2: describe it as a humble and realistic place, you know,

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Speaker 2: like we, it's not that we don't have the finances

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Speaker 2: to make it up very nicely, but we need to

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Speaker 2: be very careful how we spend because like, and I

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Speaker 2: think this has been our values since day one that

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Speaker 2: we are, for example, in contrast with a lot of

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Speaker 2: these like VC companies, the startups that get a lot

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Speaker 2: of seed capital in the initial stages and then they

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Speaker 2: can afford very nice things. We've always been very brick

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Speaker 2: and mortar and very traditional

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Speaker 2: when it comes to the way that we spend our money.

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Speaker 2: So maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: I felt kind of bad about it, especially in the

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Speaker 2: beginning because we have a lot of peers, you know,

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Speaker 2: like our friends who run businesses and offices are very

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Speaker 2: spunky and nice and also like why can't we also

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Speaker 2: have nice things, but because we own the company, there's

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Speaker 2: no equity, there's no shareholder apart from us. You know, we,

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Speaker 2: we prefer to live our values like that. So that's

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Speaker 2: I guess one of the drawbacks about working with us.

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Speaker 2: The office not super swanky.

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Speaker 1: So we are entering

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Speaker 1: period of economic uncertainty and like the lower your pecs,

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Speaker 2: your burn rate the

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Speaker 1: longer. So I think absolutely this is whether you're a

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Speaker 1: person or company reducing your expenditure is just one way

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Speaker 1: to bring certainty in an uncertain world, which I feel

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Speaker 1: is quite underrated right now. The office

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Speaker 2: Is not a very nice and then we jury rig

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Speaker 2: a lot of things like the fish for example, is

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Speaker 2: from my mother in law. There's a spare one. So

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Speaker 2: I feel like there's a

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Speaker 2: and I like that, I sort of like that about us.

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Speaker 2: So

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Speaker 1: I noticed a couple of staff members in the background

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Speaker 1: that means it's not just to a few walk salaryman

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Speaker 1: is now a bigger team than just the two of you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's five of us. And so we have three other

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Speaker 2: colleagues to of draw for us and then one v

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Speaker 2: she is our business development development

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Speaker 1: person. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And actually our bosses, because she just tells us what

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Speaker 2: to do when we do.

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Speaker 1: She actually used to be from

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Speaker 2: dBS. I

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Speaker 1: see,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about content. You have already touched

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Speaker 1: on this issue, which is that you cover actually issues

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Speaker 1: that go beyond financial literacy, but first let's just focus

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Speaker 1: on the matters of Marcel finance from stock picking to

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Speaker 1: long term saving. So describe for me your content generation process, please, wow, okay.

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Speaker 1: I think

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Speaker 1: Is I would say it's very haphazard actually, most of

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Speaker 1: the content and does happen because we shouldn't have a

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Speaker 1: conversation and one of us either like disagree or we

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Speaker 1: feel very strongly about something. And that's when we decided

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Speaker 1: to turn it into a piece of content because because

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Speaker 1: I used to be a copywriter and I was in

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Speaker 1: the agency and how we used to come and content

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Speaker 1: there was to look at the content calendar and then

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Speaker 1: we see like what days are coming up. For example,

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Speaker 1: this one September, right? So of course there will be

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Speaker 1: a teacher's days post.

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Speaker 1: Then the

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Speaker 2: Next one on Halloween. So let's prep the Halloween post.

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Speaker 1: And when I just found a long term, this is

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Speaker 1: just a shitty way to create

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Speaker 2: your finding excuses.

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Speaker 1: So what we found was a lot more sustainable was

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Speaker 1: to find things you care about.

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Speaker 1: And then the independent of the content calendar and just

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Speaker 1: create our own content on your on your own terms

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Speaker 1: rather than following what everyone else is does. So that's

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Speaker 1: our content creation process. I think we also try to

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Speaker 1: talk about not just money investing, but like the stuff

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Speaker 1: that money investing overlaps or eventually affects because

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Speaker 1: it's not just about gaining money. It's also about how

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Speaker 1: you spend it while you do your money because all

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Speaker 1: these things have great impact upon an individual's life

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Speaker 1: and and do you guys like, you know, take one

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Speaker 1: each other's content and edit it and re edit it.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like many, many iterations or you're not

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Speaker 1: a sweet spot where you can do these things pretty easily.

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Speaker 2: I think we have a set sort of standard practice,

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Speaker 2: but what we often deliberate on whenever we do back

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Speaker 2: and forth, right, would be the front part, which is

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Speaker 2: the right thing because all of our comics articles, whatever

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Speaker 2: I do,

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Speaker 2: they all start on google dogs. So people send me

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Speaker 2: something or I might write a draft and I'll send

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Speaker 2: him then he will give me feedback, give feedback and

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Speaker 2: we just go back until it's done then during the

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Speaker 2: production process. Like then I sort of take over where

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Speaker 2: I talk about the deal more with the storytelling aspect

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Speaker 2: of the visual metaphors. Are they clear enough? They too

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Speaker 2: heavy handed and then we'll also get his feedback on that.

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Speaker 2: So google dogs has made it very easy

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Speaker 2: for us to work extremely quickly, right? It's very interesting

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Speaker 2: because we started just before just when Kobe was starting

453
00:20:52,109 --> 00:20:55,260
Speaker 2: and that was when everybody was doing like office work,

454
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:57,300
Speaker 2: you know? So we started off in a very remote

455
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:01,110
Speaker 2: way where we were communicating many on facebook messaging. So

456
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,090
Speaker 2: we have always been like that and that has made

457
00:21:03,090 --> 00:21:05,540
Speaker 2: it very fast for us to do changes even when

458
00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:08,050
Speaker 2: we go and leave, you know, like we will use

459
00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 2: google dogs to send each other, then when we have

460
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 2: like

461
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:12,810
Speaker 2: a few minutes before bedtime, even when I'm only, I

462
00:21:12,810 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 2: might look at the story, you know, just to better

463
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,490
Speaker 2: and stuff, so it's very organic, haphazard, but that also

464
00:21:17,490 --> 00:21:17,990
Speaker 2: allows us

465
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:18,740
Speaker 1: to

466
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:20,179
Speaker 2: be very agile.

467
00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good corporate term, agile, Yes, yeah,

468
00:21:24,609 --> 00:21:26,580
Speaker 2: not between, it's just

469
00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:32,300
Speaker 1: absolutely, absolutely share with us some of your favorite posts.

470
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: And when I talk about favorite posts, there are two ways, right?

471
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: That one is like how sad

472
00:21:36,770 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: you are in terms of conveying something exactly the way

473
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,409
Speaker 1: you wanted to, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the

474
00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: audience would like it sometimes you do something that you

475
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,260
Speaker 1: may not think use your best, but you would get

476
00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:49,910
Speaker 1: an incredibly good audience response. So from both dimension, tell

477
00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:51,980
Speaker 1: us about some of the things that are notable,

478
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:56,740
Speaker 2: maybe I started. So my favorite thing that we did was,

479
00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:59,410
Speaker 2: it was a story called rich people problems, which actually

480
00:21:59,410 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: in hindsight, it's quite a bad title, basically, it's just

481
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,470
Speaker 2: this very narrative and dramatic story about a guy who

482
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:07,020
Speaker 2: was at a bar and basically he's telling a story

483
00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:08,750
Speaker 2: to the bartender, you know, how people get drunk in

484
00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:11,630
Speaker 2: the event to the bartender and they review their deepest,

485
00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 2: darkest insecurities, right? So this person was just bending to

486
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,390
Speaker 2: the bartender about how, you know, I'm a very rich person,

487
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 2: I made a lot of money,

488
00:22:19,369 --> 00:22:22,660
Speaker 2: but in doing so I'm estranged from my family, but

489
00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:24,859
Speaker 2: tomorrow I'm going to quit my business, I'm going to

490
00:22:24,859 --> 00:22:26,820
Speaker 2: go and spend time with my kids, I'm gonna turn

491
00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 2: it all around, but it turns out that the bar

492
00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:35,210
Speaker 2: is actually a limbo space meaning this person is dead

493
00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: and it's too late to turn things around, so saying,

494
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,230
Speaker 2: like they say it's a very simple parable about how

495
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,810
Speaker 2: you want to make money, you want to be able

496
00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:44,389
Speaker 2: to provide for your family, but you also want to

497
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:45,699
Speaker 2: actually be there for your family

498
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 2: to have the time to spend that money on your family,

499
00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:51,350
Speaker 2: you know, so it's a very simple thing, but when

500
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: I was writing it, it was very early in our,

501
00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:57,470
Speaker 2: our foundation, you know, so we, up till then we've

502
00:22:57,470 --> 00:23:00,820
Speaker 2: done very, I would say I almost had top presentation

503
00:23:00,830 --> 00:23:03,350
Speaker 2: kind of things where like here's five reasons you do this,

504
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 2: how I managed to indicate by 30. So this was

505
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,820
Speaker 2: a big leap in terms of storytelling for me and

506
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:11,100
Speaker 2: during the creation process, I was so insecure about it,

507
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:12,050
Speaker 2: I I,

508
00:23:13,010 --> 00:23:13,540
Speaker 1: because I

509
00:23:13,540 --> 00:23:16,659
Speaker 2: knew the twist and when you're working on something and

510
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:19,189
Speaker 2: you're drawing and integrating, you're looking at the thing again

511
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:20,970
Speaker 2: and again and again, so I was thinking the twist

512
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,300
Speaker 2: is not gonna work, it's gonna be too predictable, who's

513
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: not going to see that this guy is dead

514
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: and I was so insecure, but I remember uploading the images,

515
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,380
Speaker 2: the final images and I was, I wanted to just

516
00:23:31,380 --> 00:23:33,429
Speaker 2: cancel it and not upload it because I thought it

517
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: was just crap. It's just not a good piece of content.

518
00:23:36,010 --> 00:23:38,850
Speaker 2: But when it eventually went actually very well, people said

519
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:40,820
Speaker 2: that they teared up reading thing, which is just a

520
00:23:40,820 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: great compliment. I just, I just think when you make

521
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 2: somebody cry with your content, I hit on a new level, right?

522
00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:50,340
Speaker 2: Because they're making that person essentially lose their emotional composure.

523
00:23:50,350 --> 00:23:52,420
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a great compliment.

524
00:23:52,570 --> 00:23:54,660
Speaker 2: So I remember during that part, I learned a great

525
00:23:54,660 --> 00:23:57,270
Speaker 2: lesson about confidence and not being able to like not

526
00:23:57,270 --> 00:24:01,030
Speaker 2: sabotaging myself, but also during the process of mantra that rooming,

527
00:24:01,630 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: I

528
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,250
Speaker 2: mean necessarily so kept nagging at me which was that

529
00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:07,340
Speaker 2: done is better than perfect. It's never going to be perfect.

530
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:09,100
Speaker 2: And the more and closer and closer you get to

531
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,310
Speaker 2: this perfection, right? It just becomes like you spend more

532
00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:14,290
Speaker 2: and more amount of time to polish off increasingly small

533
00:24:14,290 --> 00:24:15,770
Speaker 2: amounts of perfection,

534
00:24:15,780 --> 00:24:16,770
Speaker 1: diminishing,

535
00:24:16,780 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 2: diminishing returns. So that was a great

536
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,990
Speaker 2: that's something that I still struggle with being an artist

537
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:24,389
Speaker 2: and my ego is that my work is who I

538
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:26,939
Speaker 2: am and my quality as an artist. But we are

539
00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:30,210
Speaker 2: also making content for people, social media has to be fast.

540
00:24:30,220 --> 00:24:32,430
Speaker 2: So a lot of great lessons and also I felt

541
00:24:32,430 --> 00:24:34,210
Speaker 2: great about the impact of that post. So that was

542
00:24:34,210 --> 00:24:35,030
Speaker 2: my favorite.

543
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,139
Speaker 1: Sorry,

544
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,139
Speaker 1: I think my favorite post was something we did actually

545
00:24:40,150 --> 00:24:42,909
Speaker 1: speaks of sponsored content. We did for work for Singapore. So,

546
00:24:42,910 --> 00:24:44,889
Speaker 1: it was a story about how my dad picked up

547
00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 1: with the 997 Asian financial crisis details. You know, like

548
00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:55,060
Speaker 1: most of my childhood from the time my dad came

549
00:24:55,060 --> 00:24:57,969
Speaker 1: home one day mysteriously on a weekday and just took

550
00:24:57,970 --> 00:25:00,830
Speaker 1: me out for lunch. And as a kid, I was thinking, man,

551
00:25:00,830 --> 00:25:04,310
Speaker 1: this is strange, like, why you why you should be like, working,

552
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:06,330
Speaker 1: working and stuff. But later on, as a kid, I

553
00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:09,850
Speaker 1: only found out that he had been retrenched and the

554
00:25:09,850 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: story was actually

555
00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:15,810
Speaker 1: a retrospective approach to see like, how my dad dealt

556
00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:17,090
Speaker 1: with retrenchment.

557
00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: I think we shared it and eventually was got received

558
00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: very well, even like the Prime Minister said it, Prime

559
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,670
Speaker 1: Minister actually,

560
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:28,540
Speaker 2: on Father's

561
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:33,629
Speaker 1: Father's Day talking about. Yeah, and I showed it to

562
00:25:33,630 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: my dad who was a great friend of and he

563
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,010
Speaker 1: didn't care about. I would like to think that he

564
00:25:39,010 --> 00:25:46,109
Speaker 1: would have maybe I think he was really happy that

565
00:25:46,109 --> 00:25:47,260
Speaker 1: his story actually,

566
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:48,500
Speaker 1: it resonated

567
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:51,020
Speaker 2: with the Prime Minister of the country so much. Then,

568
00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:52,370
Speaker 2: it reminded him of

569
00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: his father who

570
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,419
Speaker 2: was a founding father of the nation. S

571
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: you can definitely take about for that one. Make no

572
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,910
Speaker 1: question about that. It's so interesting that you shared that

573
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,750
Speaker 1: particular incident, I was with a colleague last week and

574
00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:08,820
Speaker 1: he told me almost a very similar story, he did

575
00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:11,470
Speaker 1: not express it the way you did, but he was

576
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,610
Speaker 1: growing up in KL in late nineties and

577
00:26:14,619 --> 00:26:18,179
Speaker 1: And his dad had a business which went bankrupt around

578
00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:22,690
Speaker 1: the 97-98 crisis. And he was telling me how in these,

579
00:26:22,690 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, the 25 years since the crisis as he

580
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,690
Speaker 1: has sort of become an adult and a professional, how

581
00:26:28,690 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: that experience has scarred him and influenced his attitude toward

582
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,510
Speaker 1: investment family. His tolerance for risk, everything was fundamentally shaped

583
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,649
Speaker 1: by that pivotal incident, which I'm sure also had a

584
00:26:40,650 --> 00:26:41,660
Speaker 1: huge impact on you.

585
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: Because

586
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,310
Speaker 2: I mean, like from a storytelling point of view, I mean,

587
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:47,690
Speaker 1: like some of

588
00:26:47,690 --> 00:26:51,530
Speaker 2: the greatest victories are right, risen up from the greatest defeat.

589
00:26:51,530 --> 00:26:54,830
Speaker 2: You know, like these crucibles, from where these great stories

590
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:56,500
Speaker 2: come from. That's something that we look for a lot also.

591
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:59,790
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a very relatable. And I

592
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,660
Speaker 1: think also by drawing on history, we can teach people

593
00:27:02,670 --> 00:27:04,710
Speaker 1: perspectives right? Because

594
00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:07,510
Speaker 1: crisis often repeat themselves

595
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: history.

596
00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: So that was like the crisis in the past, the

597
00:27:11,650 --> 00:27:16,950
Speaker 1: great financial crisis dot com dot com bubble, especially in

598
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:19,450
Speaker 1: the past two years during the pandemic, where markets were hot.

599
00:27:19,460 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: I think we tried to bring in some of these

600
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: historical perspective to to let people know that, hey, you

601
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,190
Speaker 1: know what their boom and bust cycles, What you're experiencing

602
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:28,910
Speaker 1: now is probably part of a boom cycle. It might

603
00:27:28,910 --> 00:27:31,570
Speaker 1: not last forever. So you also try to bring that

604
00:27:31,580 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: to help people see that, you know, as the saying

605
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,369
Speaker 1: goes past performance does not indicate future results. And that

606
00:27:39,369 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: applies to the investment stock portfolios today as

607
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: well.

608
00:27:43,770 --> 00:27:48,180
Speaker 1: It is amazing how regardless of where in history we stand,

609
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: we always think that this time is different, that the

610
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: past is not gonna, you know, come back to haunt

611
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: us and and every single time it does. So a

612
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,490
Speaker 1: few years ago, Kenneth Rogoff at Harvard and Carmen Reinhart,

613
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,419
Speaker 1: they wrote a book called This Time. It's different. And

614
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: that book was entire point was that, you know,

615
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: Debt crisis, even if you go back 500 years, you

616
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: see the same fragility build up that leads to crisis

617
00:28:10,930 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 1: and the same kind of pain in terms of joblessness

618
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,570
Speaker 1: and country insolvency that follow. But every single time when

619
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: that crisis is about to happen, some people think this

620
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,910
Speaker 1: time is different, it's not gonna be like the past

621
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,859
Speaker 1: and then we are unfortunately then weighed down by history

622
00:28:25,859 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: again and proven wrong.

623
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:30,300
Speaker 1: I think too, I mean, in defense of those people,

624
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:32,629
Speaker 1: like it is different, but slightly different

625
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,650
Speaker 2: factors are different. But the grand the macro outlook,

626
00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:38,900
Speaker 1: it's the same like

627
00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:41,310
Speaker 2: yeah,

628
00:28:41,370 --> 00:28:43,910
Speaker 1: three doesn't repeat, but it rhymes right

629
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,490
Speaker 1: way. Very good, very good. So you've been doing this

630
00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: for over three years. You get a lot of feedback

631
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: from your viewers and readers, what are young investors doing

632
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: right and what are they not doing right?

633
00:29:01,820 --> 00:29:07,430
Speaker 1: I think young investors are not doing right

634
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: because a lot of them are chasing maximum games like

635
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,830
Speaker 1: the fastest games. I think we saw that particularly last

636
00:29:14,830 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: year where

637
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:19,890
Speaker 1: In Crypto where people were laughing at like 10-20% a year,

638
00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:23,410
Speaker 1: they say that these are rookie numbers. You know, there's

639
00:29:23,410 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: some protocol that gives me 10,000, per year. So why

640
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: should I bother with longer investing? Why should I bother

641
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:32,770
Speaker 1: with value in

642
00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:34,550
Speaker 2: percent is a joke to them.

643
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,850
Speaker 1: So I think many people, I mean we're after fast

644
00:29:39,850 --> 00:29:42,620
Speaker 1: games and I think this year was a big reality

645
00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:43,820
Speaker 1: check to people's

646
00:29:44,030 --> 00:29:49,850
Speaker 1: eagles last year you had people over confident in the

647
00:29:49,860 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: investment strategy. They were saying things like

648
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: diversification is for idiots. You know, it's, it's only for

649
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,740
Speaker 1: people who do not know what they're doing, but it's

650
00:29:57,750 --> 00:30:01,770
Speaker 1: important to realize that history is very, I mean life

651
00:30:01,770 --> 00:30:03,500
Speaker 1: is certainly most of us do not know what

652
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:04,780
Speaker 2: we're doing here. So

653
00:30:04,780 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: diversification makes sense.

654
00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:08,620
Speaker 2: And it's a sort of wisdom to understand that about yourself,

655
00:30:08,620 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: that I'm not good enough to go and pick stocks myself.

656
00:30:12,050 --> 00:30:14,330
Speaker 2: So there is a wisdom in that I think people should,

657
00:30:14,670 --> 00:30:19,260
Speaker 2: especially young people, but I think like, like relating to this,

658
00:30:19,260 --> 00:30:20,820
Speaker 2: I think it was a few months ago, I was

659
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:24,390
Speaker 2: on the bus and they were like students in uniform

660
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,740
Speaker 2: that was sitting in front of me and they were

661
00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:28,420
Speaker 2: talking about crypto and talking about investments and ap wise

662
00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:30,460
Speaker 2: and stuff. And I'm like, well like when I was

663
00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:32,190
Speaker 2: your age, I was talking about the Pokemon and all

664
00:30:32,190 --> 00:30:35,010
Speaker 2: this stuff, you know, all the boys and cartoons and stuff,

665
00:30:35,010 --> 00:30:36,750
Speaker 2: you know? So I think that

666
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,250
Speaker 2: also reflects on the good side of things where at

667
00:30:39,250 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: least they're talking about it, you know, and and that

668
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,630
Speaker 2: conversation is there, I don't know if it's a sign

669
00:30:43,630 --> 00:30:46,340
Speaker 2: of the times and you can't describe it or like

670
00:30:46,340 --> 00:30:49,260
Speaker 2: give them the credit for talking about it, but maybe

671
00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:51,710
Speaker 2: it's accessibility of having on your phone now and everybody

672
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:55,220
Speaker 2: has a phone. So the barriers to investing last time

673
00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:57,260
Speaker 2: you open a brokerage account or get in touch with

674
00:30:57,260 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: broker to even start investing

675
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: and now that's different. So maybe that's easier. But at

676
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,070
Speaker 2: least they're talking about it. I don't think that's good.

677
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,180
Speaker 2: So the fact that what happened recently, I think it's

678
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:09,500
Speaker 2: a good thing actually because it gives everybody a reality

679
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: check and you are living through a recession or so

680
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,730
Speaker 2: called recession yourself. And that is a great learning point.

681
00:31:15,730 --> 00:31:17,940
Speaker 2: So what I tell young people now is that keep

682
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:21,140
Speaker 2: your eyes open, see what's happening because you can use

683
00:31:21,140 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: this for

684
00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:24,100
Speaker 2: next time this happens, you know, it rhymes it's going

685
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:25,020
Speaker 2: to rhyme with this thing.

686
00:31:25,030 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: So it's good that they're studying young and maybe it's

687
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,390
Speaker 1: good that we for for some people we popped that

688
00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: bubble early, pop that bubble of unrealistic expectations or like

689
00:31:35,410 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: robert would say like will say like irrational exuberance right?

690
00:31:39,690 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: But the bad news is that some,

691
00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:46,620
Speaker 1: I would say some older millennials put a lot of

692
00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: their life savings and stock market they were burnt this time.

693
00:31:49,410 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: So I think that that can be, they can be

694
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,750
Speaker 1: not but overall it's still a positive thing I guess

695
00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:58,580
Speaker 1: that people are getting started early and they care a

696
00:31:58,580 --> 00:32:02,390
Speaker 1: lot more about finances these days. Did the meme stock

697
00:32:02,390 --> 00:32:04,350
Speaker 1: phenomenon from the U. S. Did it make it to

698
00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:05,410
Speaker 1: the shores of Singapore?

699
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:07,630
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. I think we

700
00:32:07,630 --> 00:32:10,410
Speaker 2: know people that have bought into it at a high

701
00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: point and not made out. Well

702
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:16,290
Speaker 1: I think because we do these things called like I G. Q.

703
00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:18,790
Speaker 1: And A. So we try to answer questions from our community.

704
00:32:18,790 --> 00:32:21,390
Speaker 1: I think during the whole of last year people asking

705
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: what do you think of games, what do you think?

706
00:32:23,410 --> 00:32:27,910
Speaker 1: AMC I think

707
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,850
Speaker 1: whenever people ask a question like this is a sign

708
00:32:30,850 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: that they are not really to actually invest because they

709
00:32:34,690 --> 00:32:35,670
Speaker 1: are just looking for

710
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:36,510
Speaker 2: the magic bullet, The

711
00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:39,770
Speaker 1: magic bullet quick stopping so they want someone to just

712
00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:42,250
Speaker 1: say like here is the solution to all your problems

713
00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:46,070
Speaker 1: in life but actually lives isn't so complex. So I

714
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:46,980
Speaker 1: often try to ignore those

715
00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:48,020
Speaker 2: questions

716
00:32:48,260 --> 00:32:50,790
Speaker 1: I'll share with you one anecdote in terms of you

717
00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:53,709
Speaker 1: know this desire for magic bullet you know transcends time.

718
00:32:53,710 --> 00:32:56,650
Speaker 1: So when I was 22 a friend of mine explained

719
00:32:56,650 --> 00:32:59,990
Speaker 1: to me that all you need is $2000 to retire

720
00:32:59,990 --> 00:33:01,910
Speaker 1: in 30 years time because if you put it in

721
00:33:01,910 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: the stock market and if you're smart you'll grow 20%

722
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,270
Speaker 1: a year. So the power of component 2020% a year

723
00:33:08,270 --> 00:33:10,410
Speaker 1: for 30 years, you know more than enough, you know,

724
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:12,710
Speaker 1: just all that's all you need and then the other

725
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:13,460
Speaker 1: one is um

726
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,219
Speaker 1: I think this was just a few months before the

727
00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: subprime crisis in Virginia. I was at lunch and just

728
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,460
Speaker 1: like you know, you heard kids in the bus talking

729
00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:23,980
Speaker 1: about her behind me were two college students and all

730
00:33:23,980 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: they were talking about was you know what's the point

731
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: of college if we could only get into the subprime

732
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,450
Speaker 1: business and make so much money and we can retire

733
00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:34,459
Speaker 1: by the time we're 25-28 and by multiple homes and

734
00:33:34,460 --> 00:33:37,570
Speaker 1: get passive income that kept on saying that passive income

735
00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: for the rest of our lives.

736
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:39,060
Speaker 1: He's

737
00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:41,270
Speaker 2: talking about getting into the subprime business.

738
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,250
Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically their hope was that you know, they

739
00:33:44,250 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: would become property agents, but at the same time they

740
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,950
Speaker 1: would borrow money from banks

741
00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:49,220
Speaker 2: to leverage

742
00:33:49,220 --> 00:33:52,410
Speaker 1: Some property and then keep on flipping them. Um they

743
00:33:52,410 --> 00:33:53,740
Speaker 1: were a bit late in the game because a couple

744
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: of months after that the party was over. But but

745
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,450
Speaker 1: yeah and and now you know that was 2008 now

746
00:33:59,450 --> 00:34:02,100
Speaker 1: in 2022, somebody thought that they would be able to

747
00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: punt on Bitcoin and make a lot of money. Um

748
00:34:04,530 --> 00:34:07,380
Speaker 1: so guys, that takes me to this question that

749
00:34:07,710 --> 00:34:12,060
Speaker 1: Singapore is a modern society, there are cutting edge banks

750
00:34:12,060 --> 00:34:15,660
Speaker 1: and Fintech companies here offering a wide range of financial products,

751
00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:18,980
Speaker 1: whether it is, you know, buying stocks or mutual funds

752
00:34:18,980 --> 00:34:23,670
Speaker 1: or insurance, but do you see any gaps in products

753
00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:25,740
Speaker 1: and financial services for young singaporeans?

754
00:34:26,890 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: Well, to be honest, not really at the moment, I

755
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,410
Speaker 1: think

756
00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:35,460
Speaker 1: because most Singaporeans will agree that they are really pretty

757
00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:38,460
Speaker 1: well well served by something as simple as CPF, which

758
00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:41,270
Speaker 1: is what the government does. So

759
00:34:42,170 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: when it comes to

760
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:47,500
Speaker 1: financial planning for a long term, I don't think that

761
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:49,190
Speaker 1: gets that. And recently there were a lot of like

762
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: digital banks these days, there are fractional trading. So I

763
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,859
Speaker 1: think right now, as a layman, I do not see

764
00:34:56,860 --> 00:34:59,060
Speaker 1: any gaps in the market at the moment.

765
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,810
Speaker 1: And so like let's say, you know, we're having this

766
00:35:03,810 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: discussion in the first week of september interest rates are

767
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,980
Speaker 1: going up very sharply around the world, including in Singapore

768
00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:13,580
Speaker 1: and some banks have raised fixed deposit rates. Um and

769
00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:15,649
Speaker 1: you think that even for somebody who makes a less

770
00:35:15,650 --> 00:35:19,090
Speaker 1: than $4500 a month, there are plenty

771
00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:22,890
Speaker 1: of inexpensive avenues where they can set aside money and

772
00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:27,790
Speaker 1: get incremental returns on those investments and between large banks

773
00:35:27,790 --> 00:35:31,169
Speaker 1: as well as sort of the agile fintech companies there

774
00:35:31,170 --> 00:35:32,859
Speaker 1: there is a wide spectrum of products that you can

775
00:35:32,860 --> 00:35:36,149
Speaker 1: suggest to people that they can go and access for sure.

776
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: I think uh

777
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: let me just use the example of cryptocurrencies. So I

778
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,540
Speaker 1: think last year I was saying crypto was away like

779
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:46,299
Speaker 1: would be a way to serve the unbanked will be

780
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:50,950
Speaker 1: a way to help, people will actually help people help

781
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:53,090
Speaker 1: the poorer segment of

782
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,609
Speaker 1: the population get financial services. But in Singapore there's stuff

783
00:35:57,610 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: like Singapore savings bonds, you can set up a bank

784
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,070
Speaker 1: account relatively easily. The barriers, there are barriers here are

785
00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:07,689
Speaker 1: not as high as elsewhere in the world which are

786
00:36:07,690 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: less developed. So I would say in Singapore ah there

787
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,690
Speaker 1: are huge gaps in the market. I mean there are

788
00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:18,620
Speaker 1: definitely gaps that people can go to and feature to

789
00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:23,300
Speaker 1: fill in the future but no serious gaps at the moment.

790
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,110
Speaker 1: But I'm good to hear that. I mean I I also,

791
00:36:27,110 --> 00:36:30,630
Speaker 1: you know sitting in dbs, I'm looking around the financial

792
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: sector landscape and clearly because of the fintech tailwind that

793
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,810
Speaker 1: we have had over the last four or five years,

794
00:36:36,820 --> 00:36:39,310
Speaker 1: I think whether you're a large institution or a small institution,

795
00:36:39,310 --> 00:36:41,450
Speaker 1: everybody's looking over their shoulders and trying to

796
00:36:41,730 --> 00:36:45,450
Speaker 1: match whatever new product that's coming in. Uh This was

797
00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 1: not the case in the past. I mean even 10

798
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,969
Speaker 1: 12 years ago if you want to trade stocks or

799
00:36:49,969 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: if you want to trade E. T. F. S not

800
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,350
Speaker 1: that easy right now. The e trading platforms have certainly

801
00:36:54,350 --> 00:36:59,070
Speaker 1: come a long way. Um Let's talk we were discussing

802
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,340
Speaker 1: earlier that you know your content is not just about

803
00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:04,549
Speaker 1: financial well being and financial literacy. I've seen lately. You

804
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:08,390
Speaker 1: know you've done segments of job satisfaction on personal branding

805
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:10,310
Speaker 1: by the way, which I really really liked. So what

806
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:11,460
Speaker 1: is the thinking behind that?

807
00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:15,509
Speaker 1: Well I think many times when people talk about personal finances,

808
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:18,430
Speaker 1: just think about investing and saving right

809
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:19,779
Speaker 2: min makes everything.

810
00:37:19,790 --> 00:37:23,180
Speaker 1: So the idea like coupon cutters or like I don't

811
00:37:23,180 --> 00:37:25,330
Speaker 1: get the best best cash back and get the most mounts.

812
00:37:25,340 --> 00:37:28,310
Speaker 1: But that's actually a lot of it is actually standing

813
00:37:28,530 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: When you go when you go on about investing. A

814
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: lot of them it's like a lot of them are

815
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,819
Speaker 1: actually focusing on like picking stocks but that might not

816
00:37:34,820 --> 00:37:38,580
Speaker 1: always be suitable for the layperson. What the lay person

817
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:40,670
Speaker 1: actually needs to do is to actually work on their

818
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: earning power and that actually has a lot to do

819
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: their job because if you don't earn a lot you

820
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,630
Speaker 1: cannot invest a lot and it's a lot easier to

821
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:55,220
Speaker 1: let's say 5% of $100,000. And that way you earn

822
00:37:55,219 --> 00:37:56,700
Speaker 1: $5,000 then to turn

823
00:37:56,910 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 1: $1,000 into $5,000. So I think

824
00:38:01,110 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: focusing on earning power is what most people should do.

825
00:38:03,770 --> 00:38:08,580
Speaker 1: And we tackle the topics surrounding that. So like how

826
00:38:08,580 --> 00:38:11,500
Speaker 1: to get a pay raise, how to realize like a

827
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:15,030
Speaker 1: workplace is toxic. Why should negotiate, Why should market itself?

828
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,370
Speaker 1: So I think that's why our content doesn't just cover investments,

829
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:21,770
Speaker 1: insurance or saving money.

830
00:38:21,780 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: I also think there's a great deal of subjectivity that

831
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,780
Speaker 2: surrounds the objectivity of finance because it's not just about

832
00:38:27,780 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: min maxing everything and getting the highest

833
00:38:30,370 --> 00:38:33,509
Speaker 2: amount of percentage return. You can you also need to

834
00:38:33,710 --> 00:38:36,390
Speaker 2: um sort of balance that with who you are as

835
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:38,150
Speaker 2: a person. What kind of risk are you willing to

836
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:40,500
Speaker 2: take on and what are your life goals and what

837
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:45,089
Speaker 2: is the enough point in life? I've seen examples of

838
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: people who make a lot of money but they sort

839
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,420
Speaker 2: of get into the trap of just chasing money for

840
00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: money's sake, which is something that when you chase money right,

841
00:38:54,130 --> 00:38:57,050
Speaker 2: improves your quality of life up to a certain extent.

842
00:38:57,050 --> 00:38:59,710
Speaker 2: And then I think it tapers off if you don't

843
00:38:59,710 --> 00:39:02,270
Speaker 2: define your your your life goals and what you actually

844
00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:04,370
Speaker 2: to do. So I think it's very important to also

845
00:39:04,370 --> 00:39:07,570
Speaker 2: talk about these softer issues with not just how can

846
00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:10,370
Speaker 2: you earn as much money as possible, but also what

847
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:12,609
Speaker 2: do you want to do and how much money do

848
00:39:12,610 --> 00:39:14,660
Speaker 2: you need to do what you want to do? And

849
00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:16,810
Speaker 2: this is a lot more to do with also everybody

850
00:39:16,810 --> 00:39:19,930
Speaker 2: having their own introspection to do their own journaling, so

851
00:39:19,930 --> 00:39:22,290
Speaker 2: to speak to understand what they are. Those that can

852
00:39:22,290 --> 00:39:25,050
Speaker 2: be pretty miserable to not have enough money, but it

853
00:39:25,050 --> 00:39:27,339
Speaker 2: can also be equally miserable if you have money, but

854
00:39:27,340 --> 00:39:30,230
Speaker 2: you don't know why you actually after this race because

855
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: it's not easy

856
00:39:30,860 --> 00:39:33,430
Speaker 2: to earn money, right? So, so you better make sure

857
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: that the slices of life that you're cutting off to

858
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,970
Speaker 2: do this thing is worth something at the end. What

859
00:39:38,969 --> 00:39:39,510
Speaker 2: is that?

860
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,330
Speaker 1: So how to get money and what to eventually do

861
00:39:42,330 --> 00:39:43,430
Speaker 1: the money that you have

862
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,810
Speaker 2: to be realistic with how much money it takes to

863
00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:49,310
Speaker 2: do something. Like for example, the idea of owning a car,

864
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,370
Speaker 2: it's a very nice idea and Singapore in particular is

865
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:55,070
Speaker 2: very expensive to own a car because of the exorbitant

866
00:39:55,070 --> 00:39:59,420
Speaker 2: prices of the certificate of Entitlements. This is compared to the,

867
00:39:59,430 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, for example, Malaysia where I'm from,

868
00:40:01,810 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: only a car is like nothing. So when you consume

869
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: media from other countries, because you might get this very

870
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,940
Speaker 2: unrealistic expectation about owning a car and in Singapore that's

871
00:40:09,940 --> 00:40:11,950
Speaker 2: going to cost you a lot of money. And unless

872
00:40:11,950 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 2: you are realistic about your financial planning or getting a car,

873
00:40:14,810 --> 00:40:16,830
Speaker 2: when you can't afford to do so in Singapore might

874
00:40:16,830 --> 00:40:20,100
Speaker 2: actually be a very disastrous thing for your finances. So

875
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: something like that. It has to be leveled against what

876
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,410
Speaker 2: you want to do. So I want a car. The

877
00:40:24,410 --> 00:40:26,380
Speaker 2: trade off that I need to understand maybe is that

878
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:27,990
Speaker 2: I can't have as chill alive

879
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: is that one, you know, and that's not a bad

880
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:31,989
Speaker 2: thing to have a, I don't know, but if you

881
00:40:31,989 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: want this, you better be able to make the necessary sacrifices.

882
00:40:35,530 --> 00:40:35,710
Speaker 2: I

883
00:40:35,710 --> 00:40:38,270
Speaker 1: think recently we've also been talking about like a larger

884
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,660
Speaker 1: world issues. So for example why inflation happens, how come

885
00:40:42,660 --> 00:40:45,270
Speaker 1: your city is becoming more expensive? Why are, why are

886
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: housing prices inflated at the moment? What it takes for

887
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,970
Speaker 1: a country especially Singapore to be successful or remain successful

888
00:40:52,980 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: because I think without like a broader understanding

889
00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:56,570
Speaker 2: of

890
00:40:57,060 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: the stuff that's happening around the world, the world can

891
00:41:00,570 --> 00:41:03,009
Speaker 1: seem like quite an unfair place. Can feel like there's

892
00:41:03,010 --> 00:41:07,460
Speaker 1: no hope, no chance. I would say by helping people

893
00:41:07,469 --> 00:41:10,630
Speaker 1: see the big picture, they can then like pinpoint like

894
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:14,150
Speaker 1: problems that they can actually tackle instead of assuming that

895
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,070
Speaker 1: this is beyond my control, I'm just going to

896
00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:16,220
Speaker 2: use

897
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 2: system is rick, There's no chance that I can make

898
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,660
Speaker 2: it out. So that I think I'm thinking like I

899
00:41:21,660 --> 00:41:24,790
Speaker 2: always say that we should eventually like sort of, we

900
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: do our motto and our tech line instead of like

901
00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:29,940
Speaker 2: talking about like making finance more accessible to zoom out

902
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:32,290
Speaker 2: a bit to talk about like we want to help

903
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: people understand how to see the bigger picture, which is

904
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,390
Speaker 2: what I think

905
00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:38,020
Speaker 2: economists do, which is why I love talking to economists

906
00:41:38,020 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 2: because you guys see the bigger picture and sometimes like

907
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,930
Speaker 2: it's hard to see the bigger picture when you're worried

908
00:41:42,930 --> 00:41:46,420
Speaker 2: about rent, you're worried about your tomorrow salary, whether you're

909
00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: going to make enough money to even understand the global event,

910
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: the seismic events that happening overseas and then the result

911
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,580
Speaker 2: of that is that you might be resentful and that's

912
00:41:54,580 --> 00:41:56,910
Speaker 2: not very nice. You know, So we always really think

913
00:41:56,910 --> 00:42:00,240
Speaker 2: like global macro understanding is so important. But we're thinking

914
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,370
Speaker 2: constantly about how do we make it more and more accessible?

915
00:42:03,380 --> 00:42:05,410
Speaker 2: Because it can sound very,

916
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,430
Speaker 2: it can sound a bit like, I don't know, insensitive

917
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,180
Speaker 2: when somebody's worried about next week's rent and then you

918
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: are asking them to think about the big picture and

919
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: that's why inflation is increasing and that's why you shouldn't

920
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,230
Speaker 2: be so angry and upset at this or that person.

921
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 2: So there's a level of tension and sensitivity that we

922
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,780
Speaker 2: need to navigate here and we are,

923
00:42:24,930 --> 00:42:27,740
Speaker 2: we are trying to do better every day.

924
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:30,700
Speaker 1: But we don't sorry, We do believe that overall and

925
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the person who's struggling

926
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: and we all benefit from

927
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,100
Speaker 2: knowing from knowing the big picture, let's

928
00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:40,350
Speaker 1: Talk about that tension a little bit more. I look

929
00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:42,890
Speaker 1: at Singapore's data right now, you know, we have inflation

930
00:42:42,890 --> 00:42:46,710
Speaker 1: at 7%, you've seen, you know, gasoline prices,

931
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: the petrol pump go up substantially come down a bit,

932
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,219
Speaker 1: but still very high by recent standards. Uh, and we

933
00:42:53,219 --> 00:42:55,589
Speaker 1: all know about the issue related to housing and rent

934
00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:58,300
Speaker 1: in Singapore, but at the same time the export sector

935
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,820
Speaker 1: is doing very, very well, the economy is reopening, the

936
00:43:01,820 --> 00:43:04,850
Speaker 1: hotels are full changi airport is getting busier by the

937
00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:07,650
Speaker 1: day we have Formula One coming up. So I find

938
00:43:07,650 --> 00:43:08,509
Speaker 1: Singapore at an intro,

939
00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: you know, crossroad one hand, global headwinds are certainly noticeable.

940
00:43:12,930 --> 00:43:14,890
Speaker 1: China is a very big sense of worry. On the

941
00:43:14,890 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: other hand, Singapore has sort of done well riding through

942
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,190
Speaker 1: this covid storm. So when you again talk about the

943
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: gen Z or millennial demographic that you are catering to,

944
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,650
Speaker 1: what is the vibe you're picking up? Is there substantial

945
00:43:27,650 --> 00:43:30,660
Speaker 1: amount of anxiety or sort of mid level anxiety? I

946
00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:33,980
Speaker 1: think most level, I mean most of the city center

947
00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:34,510
Speaker 1: and like

948
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:38,629
Speaker 1: and better stuff, you know, like standard of living housing costs,

949
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: whether it's too expensive. I think the pandemic has really

950
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,410
Speaker 1: caused a delay of housing supply. So many agencies are

951
00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:52,820
Speaker 1: extremely concerned about that as far as, you know, whether

952
00:43:52,830 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: gen Z or millennials even benefit from the successes that

953
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: Singapore has. I think that's,

954
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,230
Speaker 1: that might be slightly more complex because let's say, we

955
00:44:03,230 --> 00:44:05,620
Speaker 1: saw this thing called like the K shaped recovery, right?

956
00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:08,410
Speaker 1: Some people emerge from the pandemic for the better, others

957
00:44:08,410 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: for the words, I think it's that way, not only

958
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,580
Speaker 1: not just in the stock market, but also in

959
00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:16,009
Speaker 1: and the general populace as well, all over the world

960
00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:18,250
Speaker 1: among across generations,

961
00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:21,260
Speaker 2: also think that qualitatively like what the gen Z's are

962
00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 2: thinking a lot about and what the struggle for identity

963
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,020
Speaker 2: also is very prevalent, I think much more so than

964
00:44:27,020 --> 00:44:29,700
Speaker 2: the previous generation that they think a lot about like

965
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:32,210
Speaker 2: what is the meaning of work? Is it just pure

966
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:35,930
Speaker 2: productivity and also how does productivity factor into my identity,

967
00:44:35,940 --> 00:44:39,050
Speaker 2: which is, I think something that might sound fluffy but

968
00:44:39,050 --> 00:44:40,710
Speaker 2: might have to be addressed, you know, that's where I

969
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: think this quiet quitting thing comes from, that's where

970
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:46,650
Speaker 2: life like movement and all this stuff about 9 to

971
00:44:46,650 --> 00:44:49,870
Speaker 2: 5 red race and all that because my parents generation

972
00:44:49,870 --> 00:44:52,339
Speaker 2: that wasn't even a thing, they just did work and

973
00:44:52,340 --> 00:44:55,230
Speaker 2: work was something that you just did. So this, this

974
00:44:55,230 --> 00:44:57,860
Speaker 2: thing about identity and people like the great resignation, I

975
00:44:57,860 --> 00:45:00,489
Speaker 2: think also love to that there's something that I think

976
00:45:00,489 --> 00:45:03,430
Speaker 2: this new generation has to sort of figure that out

977
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:06,300
Speaker 2: because productivity is still to come, but how does that

978
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:08,940
Speaker 2: factor in, you know, two people burn out faster. Like

979
00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:12,220
Speaker 2: that's something that I'm very keen to keep eye on

980
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:16,930
Speaker 1: right um side pivot from that issue, but it is

981
00:45:16,930 --> 00:45:20,100
Speaker 1: very interesting nonetheless. So I recently read this survey about

982
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:22,830
Speaker 1: the eroding level of trust and large financial institutions in

983
00:45:22,830 --> 00:45:25,890
Speaker 1: America and the survey which is sort of done by

984
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:29,070
Speaker 1: Fintech company to serve their purpose well, which is the

985
00:45:29,070 --> 00:45:31,750
Speaker 1: conclusion was that, you know, for gen z is easier

986
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:33,930
Speaker 1: to trust or embrace the Fintech as opposed to a

987
00:45:33,930 --> 00:45:37,969
Speaker 1: large financial institution, um, does the same hold for Singapore?

988
00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:41,940
Speaker 1: I think in Singapore, it's a slightly different climate because

989
00:45:41,950 --> 00:45:46,500
Speaker 1: trust in government is a lot higher than, let's say

990
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: in the United States. I think a lot of people

991
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:56,190
Speaker 1: are less skeptical of the government as a credible financial institution,

992
00:45:56,730 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: if if I can describe governments as financial institutions or

993
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: even like large corporations and the assumption is government will

994
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,850
Speaker 1: oversee large financial corporation. So there's definitely a level of

995
00:46:07,850 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: trust there, there is not so much in the US

996
00:46:10,530 --> 00:46:12,370
Speaker 1: because I mean, the U. S. They have, like there's

997
00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: like the Enron crisis, you know, back in the day,

998
00:46:14,850 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: there was Lehman Brothers. So there are a lot more scandals, more,

999
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,770
Speaker 1: a lot more high profile scandals that might share the

1000
00:46:20,770 --> 00:46:21,860
Speaker 1: perception of

1001
00:46:22,310 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: How young people see large financial institutions there. But I'll

1002
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,550
Speaker 1: say like in Singapore, it's not so much the case

1003
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: actually infecting people might approach newer companies with more skepticism.

1004
00:46:34,170 --> 00:46:36,029
Speaker 1: And I say this because every time we do a

1005
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: responsible with like a newish organization, people ask what happens

1006
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,779
Speaker 1: if this shuts down. So they are very aware that

1007
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:45,540
Speaker 1: all these new players, they might not be established and that,

1008
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: and with that comes the risk of them not being

1009
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,850
Speaker 1: around in the next 5 to 10 years.

1010
00:46:52,570 --> 00:46:54,850
Speaker 1: And I think that's a that's a fair assumption

1011
00:46:55,020 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: Singaporeans,

1012
00:46:55,930 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: maybe it's a so it could be that well, I

1013
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: think this is a smart thing to do. I mean,

1014
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,110
Speaker 1: I think embrace all of these things, you know, trust

1015
00:47:07,110 --> 00:47:09,910
Speaker 1: but verify I think is important as well.

1016
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 1: Um, staying with that final issue, that level of anxiety

1017
00:47:15,250 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: or questioning about, you know, what is the meaning of

1018
00:47:18,610 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: purposeful work. It seems to me that, you know, the

1019
00:47:22,410 --> 00:47:25,989
Speaker 1: culture that we hear from China the 996. I think

1020
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,270
Speaker 1: Singaporeans are ready to move past that uh, and, and

1021
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: would demand

1022
00:47:30,090 --> 00:47:34,910
Speaker 1: and far greater flexibility and accommodation from their employers than this.

1023
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,230
Speaker 1: So along that line, do you see the next generation

1024
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:43,970
Speaker 1: singaporeans actually becoming more entrepreneurial and perhaps even more keen

1025
00:47:43,969 --> 00:47:46,180
Speaker 1: to hop jobs as opposed to looking for jobs for

1026
00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:49,219
Speaker 1: life and only looking at large companies as a place

1027
00:47:49,219 --> 00:47:50,009
Speaker 1: for refuge.

1028
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: I think it would depend on who you're asking. I mean,

1029
00:47:54,890 --> 00:47:58,610
Speaker 1: let's be real. When you're talking about like the full

1030
00:47:58,610 --> 00:48:01,989
Speaker 1: spectrum of benefits, it's very likely that only a very

1031
00:48:01,989 --> 00:48:04,540
Speaker 1: small percentage of people can get it all they can

1032
00:48:04,540 --> 00:48:07,180
Speaker 1: get a high salary you can get from home. They

1033
00:48:07,180 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: can get flexible benefits, They can get unlimited days leave.

1034
00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:14,230
Speaker 1: Only a very small percentage of people will be able

1035
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:18,060
Speaker 1: to get all of that because they are, they have talent.

1036
00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:20,770
Speaker 1: They're mobile. They can work in any where they will want.

1037
00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:23,210
Speaker 1: So I think it's important to stay there up front.

1038
00:48:23,219 --> 00:48:25,150
Speaker 1: Not everyone will be able to get all the benefits,

1039
00:48:25,150 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: but I think as a whole, there's a greater pivot

1040
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: in mindset towards more work life balance, more sustainable, most

1041
00:48:31,930 --> 00:48:35,550
Speaker 1: of sustainable styles of working, especially those that focus on

1042
00:48:35,550 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: people's mental health. I think the challenge would be how

1043
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:45,210
Speaker 1: can singaporeans justify being paid a singaporean salary while someone

1044
00:48:45,210 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: else might possibly do the same job elsewhere for a

1045
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: lot more

1046
00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:55,219
Speaker 1: cheaper. Right? I think the key here is for singles

1047
00:48:55,219 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: to move up the value chain. I think it's not

1048
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,450
Speaker 1: a pleasant message to say, but it's what we must do.

1049
00:49:00,450 --> 00:49:04,100
Speaker 1: We must learn how to do the jobs that

1050
00:49:04,530 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: cheaper labor cannot do. I think that's the brutal truth

1051
00:49:08,170 --> 00:49:11,390
Speaker 1: will do the job that machines can do and that

1052
00:49:11,390 --> 00:49:13,670
Speaker 1: is how we will be able to enjoy whole life

1053
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:16,650
Speaker 1: balance will get high salary, That's how we enjoy like

1054
00:49:16,660 --> 00:49:19,390
Speaker 1: Singapore and standard of living while also all the benefits

1055
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:22,140
Speaker 1: that we want. If not there's going to be a

1056
00:49:22,140 --> 00:49:25,230
Speaker 1: very huge gap between expectation and reality.

1057
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,940
Speaker 2: An entrepreneur style things. I tend to think in this

1058
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: might not be true because I'm not from Singapore from Malaysia.

1059
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,940
Speaker 2: I feel like one of the defining features of Singaporean,

1060
00:49:34,940 --> 00:49:38,700
Speaker 2: this is prudent like the idea that you are safer

1061
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:41,700
Speaker 2: rather than you would think that that risky jump, you know,

1062
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: so I think that sells very well for businesses, especially

1063
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,190
Speaker 2: in this post, like rising interest rate world, you know,

1064
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,470
Speaker 2: so I think that that might be very good, but

1065
00:49:49,469 --> 00:49:52,810
Speaker 2: also like I've never sort of felt like Singaporeans were

1066
00:49:52,810 --> 00:49:53,370
Speaker 2: very good

1067
00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:56,340
Speaker 2: risk takers, but that's just from my personal opinion, I

1068
00:49:56,340 --> 00:49:58,890
Speaker 2: feel like, but when they do take that leap, like

1069
00:49:58,890 --> 00:50:02,230
Speaker 2: they are more prudent with it and I feel like

1070
00:50:02,230 --> 00:50:07,020
Speaker 2: that's a good sign I do, I go on the

1071
00:50:07,020 --> 00:50:08,670
Speaker 2: other side of things. I really think like as a

1072
00:50:08,670 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: foreigner myself, you know, like the reason why I'm even

1073
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 2: here was that my mom sent me here to study

1074
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,020
Speaker 2: because she recognized that Singapore's economy was better than Malaysia.

1075
00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: So

1076
00:50:18,130 --> 00:50:20,660
Speaker 2: The result of that in the past 20 years I

1077
00:50:20,660 --> 00:50:23,830
Speaker 2: think is that there is now a big bunch of

1078
00:50:23,830 --> 00:50:26,940
Speaker 2: competition coming regionally, especially with the COVID, thing you know

1079
00:50:26,940 --> 00:50:30,810
Speaker 2: pushing things remotely that Singaporean youth need to be very

1080
00:50:30,810 --> 00:50:34,170
Speaker 2: careful and aware of the competition that surrounds surrounds them

1081
00:50:34,410 --> 00:50:38,650
Speaker 2: and they have to be very understanding of the market

1082
00:50:38,650 --> 00:50:41,540
Speaker 2: forces because I mean, let's just be honest, I'm not

1083
00:50:41,540 --> 00:50:44,100
Speaker 2: the best artist in the world, right? If it's just

1084
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:47,430
Speaker 2: down to technical skill, I can find somebody just as

1085
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:50,310
Speaker 2: good or better than me in the regional countries in

1086
00:50:50,310 --> 00:50:53,710
Speaker 2: Southeast Asia, that is 1/5 of my price, that's just

1087
00:50:53,710 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 2: the reality, right? So I have to deal with

1088
00:50:56,250 --> 00:50:58,730
Speaker 2: and what I do for example, in the case of

1089
00:50:58,730 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: the works merriment is I start a business and I

1090
00:51:01,010 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 2: enact my unique vision of the world, but that vision

1091
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,750
Speaker 2: has to be original and it has to be profitable

1092
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:08,090
Speaker 2: and it has to work. So that's the challenge because

1093
00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:10,890
Speaker 2: I also think like an entrepreneurial side of things like

1094
00:51:10,890 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 2: young people in Singapore also have a good position to

1095
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,779
Speaker 2: start off with because your currency is strong, your currency

1096
00:51:15,780 --> 00:51:18,090
Speaker 2: is strong relative to the region, so you can

1097
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:23,970
Speaker 2: sort of leverage the more affordable labor in your regional

1098
00:51:23,969 --> 00:51:26,910
Speaker 2: neighbors and at the same time zone, you can do calls,

1099
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,930
Speaker 2: you don't have to fly there all the time, but

1100
00:51:28,930 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: I think that great opportunities here, so I would really

1101
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: encourage our young Singaporeans to try and push to recognize

1102
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,050
Speaker 2: your weaknesses and strengths.

1103
00:51:37,060 --> 00:51:40,350
Speaker 1: I mean to be fair to Singaporeans, I think the

1104
00:51:40,350 --> 00:51:43,710
Speaker 1: culture of entrepreneurship is not something that happens overnight right?

1105
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: I think right now we're starting to see a lot

1106
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:45,790
Speaker 1: more startups

1107
00:51:46,180 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: ah product in Singapore, I think there are a lot

1108
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,870
Speaker 1: of people saying that, you know, is it that Singapore

1109
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:53,500
Speaker 1: is an entrepreneur, but these things take time, you know,

1110
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: for the past 57 years we rely a lot on,

1111
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,370
Speaker 1: you know, the the government, government corporations, you know kind

1112
00:52:01,370 --> 00:52:07,670
Speaker 1: of like holding our hand and yeah that Singapore could trust,

1113
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,430
Speaker 1: but I think in the future moving forward we will

1114
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:11,570
Speaker 1: need to be more entrepreneurs, so it's not a matter

1115
00:52:11,570 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: of

1116
00:52:12,450 --> 00:52:14,900
Speaker 1: uh we want is that we will need to be

1117
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:20,500
Speaker 1: more entrepreneur to maintain our edge over our neighboring countries right?

1118
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:23,819
Speaker 1: And I think even that holds for large companies, that

1119
00:52:23,830 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: because of the level of competition, because of the challenges from,

1120
00:52:27,489 --> 00:52:30,950
Speaker 1: say digital banks and fintech, that even large financial companies

1121
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:33,320
Speaker 1: have to be more entrepreneurial as opposed to just you know,

1122
00:52:33,330 --> 00:52:37,980
Speaker 1: relying on their large size and and assume that they're

1123
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:40,130
Speaker 1: just gonna stay there forever. But it is an interesting

1124
00:52:40,130 --> 00:52:41,250
Speaker 1: irony isn't it on

1125
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of discussion around the world about

1126
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,450
Speaker 1: the globalization, how the world is fragmenting, but to the

1127
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:49,580
Speaker 1: point that both of you just made that in terms

1128
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:53,550
Speaker 1: of the demand for labor and the transferability of skills

1129
00:52:53,550 --> 00:52:56,330
Speaker 1: through the internet across the world, we are more globalized

1130
00:52:56,330 --> 00:52:59,259
Speaker 1: than ever before. There's just no way to turn that back,

1131
00:52:59,270 --> 00:53:01,489
Speaker 1: that genie is out regardless of, you know, whether the

1132
00:53:01,489 --> 00:53:03,620
Speaker 1: us china decide to go their separate ways or not.

1133
00:53:03,790 --> 00:53:06,049
Speaker 1: Um you know, you guys are very generous with your time.

1134
00:53:06,050 --> 00:53:08,050
Speaker 1: I want to end on that final note and you

1135
00:53:08,060 --> 00:53:10,739
Speaker 1: talked about a couple of times during this conversation, but

1136
00:53:10,739 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 1: let's talk about it in greater detail. I see that

1137
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,700
Speaker 1: you've done some sponsored content. So walk us through the

1138
00:53:16,700 --> 00:53:18,469
Speaker 1: difference between the stuff that you do on your own

1139
00:53:18,469 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: and then I guess, you know, getting paid to push

1140
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,860
Speaker 1: certain angles either for the government or some companies. So

1141
00:53:25,870 --> 00:53:29,830
Speaker 1: usually content is quite organic content is the stuff that

1142
00:53:29,830 --> 00:53:31,549
Speaker 1: we should. I talked earlier. We just come up with

1143
00:53:31,550 --> 00:53:31,990
Speaker 1: it

1144
00:53:32,310 --> 00:53:38,529
Speaker 1: based on what we think would be suitable angle for audience.

1145
00:53:38,530 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: So we do the agenda setting becomes a sponsored content,

1146
00:53:42,850 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 1: the sponsor does the agenda setting, but we decide whether

1147
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,750
Speaker 1: or not to take on the client itself and we

1148
00:53:50,750 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: decide how the message should be phrased and like to

1149
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,009
Speaker 1: what extent the client gets to decide their agenda, because

1150
00:53:58,489 --> 00:54:01,790
Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it, not all sponsors, sponsors worth

1151
00:54:01,790 --> 00:54:04,090
Speaker 1: taking on. For example, we will never do sponsorship for

1152
00:54:04,090 --> 00:54:09,340
Speaker 1: let's say a cigarette company or let's say a car

1153
00:54:09,340 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 1: company that that sells million dollar class. So we do

1154
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: have some markets that we steer clear off when it

1155
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,489
Speaker 1: comes to sponsors.

1156
00:54:22,690 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: I think right now, still, most of our money is

1157
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,180
Speaker 2: being sponsored from then our approach to that is that

1158
00:54:28,180 --> 00:54:30,690
Speaker 2: we are open to exploring other avenues and we are

1159
00:54:30,690 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: quite sure that this will not last forever and I

1160
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,410
Speaker 2: don't know what happens, but we're making hay while the

1161
00:54:36,410 --> 00:54:38,950
Speaker 2: sun shines, but we're also open to creating other avenues

1162
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 2: of making money.

1163
00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:43,140
Speaker 2: Our approach to sponsor content, I think it's something that

1164
00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:45,810
Speaker 2: there is no perfect balance that everybody will agree with,

1165
00:54:45,820 --> 00:54:48,410
Speaker 2: but we have our own code in which we decide

1166
00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:50,899
Speaker 2: what to take on what not to take on and

1167
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:53,130
Speaker 2: we are okay with sleeping at night, even if people

1168
00:54:53,130 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 2: might disagree

1169
00:54:54,130 --> 00:54:56,710
Speaker 2: the way that we like to do our story sponsored

1170
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:59,140
Speaker 2: or not is that every story we feel has to

1171
00:54:59,140 --> 00:55:03,060
Speaker 2: stand on its own organically meaning if there was something

1172
00:55:03,060 --> 00:55:05,430
Speaker 2: that happens to this client, that we disagree, right? If

1173
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:08,060
Speaker 2: we take the client sponsor mentioned out of the story, right?

1174
00:55:08,060 --> 00:55:10,890
Speaker 2: Would the story still organically? And we try to make

1175
00:55:10,890 --> 00:55:12,740
Speaker 2: sure that every single thing we do at the answer

1176
00:55:12,739 --> 00:55:15,710
Speaker 2: to that question is yes. So there are actually instances,

1177
00:55:15,710 --> 00:55:18,870
Speaker 2: for example, that we have made the content something with

1178
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:20,890
Speaker 2: the client not happy or the client, we have one

1179
00:55:20,890 --> 00:55:21,339
Speaker 2: case where

1180
00:55:21,350 --> 00:55:24,790
Speaker 2: client actually went bankrupt, right? So we just told the

1181
00:55:24,790 --> 00:55:26,299
Speaker 2: client comes out, then we just put it on as

1182
00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:28,030
Speaker 2: it is then also, I think in a way it

1183
00:55:28,030 --> 00:55:31,140
Speaker 2: makes it very good for us negotiate because whatever happens,

1184
00:55:31,140 --> 00:55:33,430
Speaker 2: we know that if you want to jump out, it's okay.

1185
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:35,540
Speaker 2: We just don't get paid for this piece, but we

1186
00:55:35,540 --> 00:55:38,850
Speaker 2: can still use this material. Of course, it makes us

1187
00:55:38,850 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 2: a bit always say with I mean, we're a bit

1188
00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:44,810
Speaker 2: difficult to negotiate with sometimes, but I also think like

1189
00:55:44,810 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: this comes with the fact that we take a lot

1190
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: of ownership and we put

1191
00:55:48,580 --> 00:55:50,370
Speaker 2: our skin in the game when it comes to publishing

1192
00:55:50,370 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 2: because it means a lot worse. And that is also

1193
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,540
Speaker 2: a USP that we add, we don't just take your thing.

1194
00:55:55,550 --> 00:55:58,110
Speaker 2: We summarize your brief and put it out. We believe

1195
00:55:58,110 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: in it, and we will put our own touch on

1196
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,790
Speaker 2: it and we'll take ownership of it whether or not

1197
00:56:02,790 --> 00:56:04,730
Speaker 2: you will be along for the right ultimately. And that's

1198
00:56:04,730 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 2: how we maintain our integrity.

1199
00:56:06,969 --> 00:56:09,540
Speaker 1: And of course, I think it's perhaps worth saying that

1200
00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:10,430
Speaker 1: we reject

1201
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 2: we lost

1202
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,790
Speaker 1: actually reject most of our clients, most of

1203
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:17,540
Speaker 1: most of the proposals,

1204
00:56:17,550 --> 00:56:18,670
Speaker 2: prospects, prospects

1205
00:56:18,670 --> 00:56:21,570
Speaker 1: That come in because sometimes it's just not a good fit.

1206
00:56:21,580 --> 00:56:25,100
Speaker 1: And I think during 2021, there were so many opportunities

1207
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:28,210
Speaker 1: to talk about crypto and that's right.

1208
00:56:28,219 --> 00:56:29,089
Speaker 2: So much

1209
00:56:29,090 --> 00:56:33,489
Speaker 1: like, I mean, we have to turn those down. But

1210
00:56:33,489 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: I think in the long term when it comes to

1211
00:56:37,170 --> 00:56:39,700
Speaker 1: being the change you want to see or talk about

1212
00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:42,270
Speaker 1: social impact, I think that is the more

1213
00:56:42,540 --> 00:56:45,330
Speaker 1: it will be the wiser thing to do that. We've

1214
00:56:45,330 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: Had this existential discussion before. Early on, when we say

1215
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,860
Speaker 2: like there's so many sponsors coming if we took all

1216
00:56:50,860 --> 00:56:53,490
Speaker 2: of them, despite of whether we agree with them or not,

1217
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:56,250
Speaker 2: we would make enough money that we could retire like

1218
00:56:56,260 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 2: maybe two or three years, you know. But then doing

1219
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,060
Speaker 2: so might ruin our reputation. So we won't have the

1220
00:57:01,060 --> 00:57:03,260
Speaker 2: brand for 10 years. And I think we decided to

1221
00:57:03,260 --> 00:57:08,029
Speaker 2: take the letter, which was to retain our reputation and

1222
00:57:08,030 --> 00:57:08,410
Speaker 2: our

1223
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: morals,

1224
00:57:09,130 --> 00:57:10,110
Speaker 2: morals.

1225
00:57:10,130 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 2: And then I

1226
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,219
Speaker 1: always, when

1227
00:57:12,219 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: We're rejecting kind of go like, well, will I live

1228
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,940
Speaker 2: to regret this? Like in 50 years time when I'm

1229
00:57:16,940 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 2: not a rich person,

1230
00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:19,210
Speaker 1: I'm, retired

1231
00:57:19,220 --> 00:57:20,970
Speaker 2: and I should have taken all that money. But I

1232
00:57:20,970 --> 00:57:23,710
Speaker 2: think being able to sleep at night is a very

1233
00:57:23,710 --> 00:57:26,170
Speaker 2: important thing to look.

1234
00:57:26,170 --> 00:57:29,870
Speaker 1: There are so many different revenue models on the social

1235
00:57:29,870 --> 00:57:33,950
Speaker 1: media platforms. Some people sell the data to advertisers. I

1236
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:37,180
Speaker 1: think what you're doing, which is being very transparent about

1237
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:37,700
Speaker 1: who sponsor

1238
00:57:37,850 --> 00:57:41,460
Speaker 1: you and your message is not getting diluted, your branding

1239
00:57:41,460 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: certainly is not getting diminished. I think what you're doing

1240
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,530
Speaker 1: is absolutely spot on and the fact that you can

1241
00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:51,060
Speaker 1: sleep at night, what more matters right Romanian you guys

1242
00:57:51,060 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: have been fantastic. I wish you the best of luck

1243
00:57:53,210 --> 00:57:56,090
Speaker 1: and I look forward to seeing more things from the

1244
00:57:56,090 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: work salaryman in the coming months and years and decades.

1245
00:57:59,130 --> 00:58:01,710
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your time and insights.

1246
00:58:02,610 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: It

1247
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,290
Speaker 1: was great to have you and

1248
00:58:05,310 --> 00:58:07,750
Speaker 1: and thanks to our listeners as well, Kobe time was

1249
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:10,610
Speaker 1: produced by ken Del Bridge from Spice studios, jay Z

1250
00:58:10,610 --> 00:58:14,270
Speaker 1: chairman violently provided additional production assistance, Kobe time is for

1251
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:17,790
Speaker 1: information only and does not represent any trade recommendations or

1252
00:58:17,790 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: investment advice. All 84 episodes of Kobe time are available

1253
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,090
Speaker 1: on youtube and all major podcast platforms including apple google

1254
00:58:25,090 --> 00:58:28,660
Speaker 1: and Spotify. As for research publications, webinars and live streams.

1255
00:58:28,670 --> 00:58:31,590
Speaker 1: You can find them all by googling DBS Research library,

1256
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:32,900
Speaker 1: have a great day