WEBVTT - Kopi Time E098 - Prem Bhatia on shifting sands in the tech start-up scene 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.500 Welcome to COVID Time, a podcast series on Markets and 0:00:09.510 --> 0:00:13.500 Economies from Ds Group Research. I'm chief economist, welcoming you 0:00:13.510 --> 0:00:15.489 to our 98th episode. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.180 Today, we will put aside most of global macro. There 0:00:19.190 --> 0:00:21.040 will be a little bit of it, but mostly it 0:00:21.049 --> 0:00:23.180 will be not the usual global macro that we talk 0:00:23.190 --> 0:00:26.468 about because we will delve into the world of tech startups. 0:00:26.969 --> 0:00:30.120 PAA is co-founder of Grass, which was recently named by 0:00:30.129 --> 0:00:33.250 C B Insights to its annual retail tech 100 list 0:00:33.259 --> 0:00:36.290 showcasing the 100 most promising private retail tech companies in 0:00:36.299 --> 0:00:39.509 the world. According to Grass's website, it is a growth 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.049 as a service technology solution provider using predictive A I 0:00:43.110 --> 0:00:45.669 to help enhance the growth of e-commerce businesses. 0:00:45.959 --> 0:00:50.400 Its proprietary platform integrates previously siloed e-commerce data, but more 0:00:50.409 --> 0:00:53.500 about them about all that from Prem in a second. 0:00:53.790 --> 0:00:57.319 But before Grass Prem founded several companies served at the 0:00:57.330 --> 0:01:00.020 board of several more and has been deeply involved in 0:01:00.029 --> 0:01:02.840 tech investment. Prem. Pat. Welcome to Kobe Time. 0:01:02.970 --> 0:01:07.529 Thank you very much, big fan. I started listening back 0:01:07.540 --> 0:01:09.878 in the early days of COVID and I haven't stopped. 0:01:09.889 --> 0:01:11.779 So pleasure to be here. I've 0:01:11.790 --> 0:01:14.269 spoken with your partner and some of your employees and 0:01:14.279 --> 0:01:16.139 that has made me a fan of yours as well. 0:01:16.769 --> 0:01:20.260 Um uh Prem uh we will talk a lot about 0:01:20.269 --> 0:01:23.419 your journey as a tech entrepreneur, uh grass the startup 0:01:23.430 --> 0:01:25.470 scene and so on. I really would love to hear 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.739 about your in and all of that. But first, um 0:01:27.750 --> 0:01:30.459 we're discussing this in the middle of March. A few 0:01:30.470 --> 0:01:33.529 things have happened in the form of Silicon Valley Bank 0:01:33.540 --> 0:01:35.839 and a few other banks that have got under. So 0:01:35.849 --> 0:01:38.959 talk to us about its impact on the tech startup scene. 0:01:39.970 --> 0:01:43.300 Um Well, I mean, I think two lenses to it, 0:01:43.309 --> 0:01:48.220 I think uh as a depositor, it's really quite worrying 0:01:48.230 --> 0:01:51.120 that you can deposit money in, in uh in a 0:01:51.129 --> 0:01:54.169 bank that you trust and then one day wake up 0:01:54.180 --> 0:01:58.769 and not be able to withdraw. Right? Um That is 0:01:58.779 --> 0:02:02.830 obviously extremely worrying. Um I think the other lens is 0:02:02.839 --> 0:02:06.980 that um as a a technology startup, 0:02:07.250 --> 0:02:12.209 uh if this were to continue, um along with high 0:02:12.220 --> 0:02:13.139 interest rates, 0:02:13.770 --> 0:02:18.580 I worry about the venture capital ecosystem and the ability 0:02:18.589 --> 0:02:22.250 for other entrepreneurs and startups to, to raise money. Uh 0:02:22.270 --> 0:02:26.550 things have fundamentally changed since from 12 months ago, since 0:02:26.559 --> 0:02:27.880 we raised money at rest. 0:02:28.070 --> 0:02:30.698 Right? And so let's stay with that a little longer. 0:02:30.710 --> 0:02:34.448 So my understanding is two Fridays ago when the S 0:02:34.460 --> 0:02:37.360 U V issue was front and center. A lot of 0:02:37.369 --> 0:02:37.559 V C 0:02:37.809 --> 0:02:41.199 lobbied Washington DC. Very hard. And their point was that 0:02:41.210 --> 0:02:44.440 in S E V you have a lot of startups 0:02:44.449 --> 0:02:48.960 and tech companies with much more than $250,000 deposits and 0:02:48.970 --> 0:02:50.919 S E V going under without taking care of those 0:02:50.929 --> 0:02:54.220 depositors would be very, very problematic. What were you hearing 0:02:54.229 --> 0:02:56.758 from your peers? Or perhaps even you had some exposure 0:02:56.770 --> 0:02:58.279 to S E V? I mean, what was the mindset 0:02:58.288 --> 0:02:59.020 in those days? 0:02:59.288 --> 0:03:03.299 Fortunately, no good. We are D BS born and bred. 0:03:03.949 --> 0:03:07.160 Um No, I mean, I think, you know, everyone's worried about, 0:03:08.119 --> 0:03:08.729 uh 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.699 what if they have made this mistake or what is 0:03:12.710 --> 0:03:16.649 the mistake? The mistake is they manage risk badly, right. 0:03:17.059 --> 0:03:21.190 Um I don't know where D Bs is my bank. 0:03:21.199 --> 0:03:24.899 I don't know where D Bs invests, right? Um And 0:03:24.910 --> 0:03:28.330 everyone is now worried it's fundamental, right? This is existential 0:03:28.339 --> 0:03:31.559 almost uh that if you have to now double click 0:03:31.570 --> 0:03:35.589 on where your bank invests and whether there's timing mismatch 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.220 do your deposits. Um Are they at risk? Right. And 0:03:40.229 --> 0:03:44.160 that's really what is scaring everybody. Um I mean, I 0:03:44.169 --> 0:03:47.649 think that, you know, at a more macro level, 0:03:48.380 --> 0:03:52.470 we're sort of just seeing the after effects of the 0:03:52.479 --> 0:03:57.350 COVID hangover. Uh And, you know, we saw a prolonged 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.580 period of zero interest rates. Uh We saw a lot 0:04:01.589 --> 0:04:06.130 of liquidity in the system. Uh We saw some uh 0:04:06.559 --> 0:04:10.929 fast and loose bets being made, uh during that, you know, 0:04:11.250 --> 0:04:15.210 uh 0% interest rate regime. 0:04:15.759 --> 0:04:18.739 Um And now you've got a fed which is basically 0:04:18.750 --> 0:04:23.989 taking up interest prices and interest rates fast. Right. And, uh, 0:04:25.299 --> 0:04:28.209 and, and, and you're going to see the after effects, 0:04:28.220 --> 0:04:32.350 not just in banking, but in every single sector. Um 0:04:32.359 --> 0:04:35.690 but I would have thought that, you know, banks would 0:04:36.019 --> 0:04:39.649 have been able to manage risk better. Uh long story short. 0:04:39.959 --> 0:04:43.290 Um And now I think you're faced with a sort 0:04:43.299 --> 0:04:48.250 of a question on whether, you know, banks that invested 0:04:48.260 --> 0:04:50.959 in crypto, for example, should they be back, stopped by 0:04:50.970 --> 0:04:54.489 the government or their depositors be back stopped? And uh 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.149 Yeah, it's uh it's an interesting time. It's reminiscent of 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.519 2008 in some respects, hopefully nowhere near as bad. Uh 0:05:02.529 --> 0:05:07.850 where in 2008, a lot of it was banks and, 0:05:07.859 --> 0:05:13.428 and housing, right? And now it's sort of banks and technology. 0:05:13.829 --> 0:05:15.989 Um and uh 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.170 I think that, uh you know, a lot of people 0:05:20.178 --> 0:05:24.329 have climbed all over venture capital. Um And I don't know, I, 0:05:24.339 --> 0:05:26.750 I have a fairly contrarian opinion. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.269 Right. Right. Now we're going to get into that in 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.299 greater detail. Um, talking to people in Silicon Valley, which 0:05:32.309 --> 0:05:34.170 I'm sure you didn't during that time, 0:05:34.380 --> 0:05:36.899 was your sense that there were a lot of companies 0:05:36.910 --> 0:05:39.510 which only had business with S U V and therefore, 0:05:39.519 --> 0:05:41.700 if S V V collapsed, they would not be able 0:05:41.709 --> 0:05:45.130 to make payroll or was it exaggerated that actually companies 0:05:45.140 --> 0:05:46.200 had multiple 0:05:46.209 --> 0:05:49.059 banks. No, I think it was quite the opposite. I 0:05:49.070 --> 0:05:54.079 think TB was, was home not just to funds, um 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.589 but also to their portfolio companies and 0:05:58.529 --> 0:06:02.299 uh hindsight's a, a great thing. But look at the 0:06:02.309 --> 0:06:06.630 end of the day startups, uh uh they've got a 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.279 lot to worry about. It's a bit like, um you know, 0:06:10.290 --> 0:06:14.339 dancing between raindrops trying not to get wet and the 0:06:14.350 --> 0:06:16.950 last thing you need to worry about is managing multiple 0:06:16.959 --> 0:06:18.040 banking entities. 0:06:18.709 --> 0:06:20.678 Um So, yeah, I think most of them 0:06:21.559 --> 0:06:25.789 uh struggle with payroll. Um and uh are still worried 0:06:26.049 --> 0:06:28.969 about when the money and how it's going to come back. 0:06:28.980 --> 0:06:31.600 I don't think it's a straightforward process, 0:06:32.230 --> 0:06:34.540 the guarantee is there, but that doesn't mean that everything 0:06:34.549 --> 0:06:34.820 can be. 0:06:36.540 --> 0:06:40.809 And I think right now uh for startup founders, uh 0:06:40.940 --> 0:06:41.488 you know, 0:06:42.329 --> 0:06:47.170 I think 2020 2021 was very much about growth at 0:06:47.178 --> 0:06:48.019 all costs. 0:06:48.899 --> 0:06:57.670 Uh 2022 2023 very much about survival runway cash flow margin. 0:06:57.940 --> 0:07:02.549 Um And, and yeah, cash flow is cash flow. That's 0:07:02.570 --> 0:07:02.880 a good thing. 0:07:04.369 --> 0:07:08.250 I agree. I, I think at a fundraising level, uh 0:07:08.779 --> 0:07:12.829 we've raised 50 million bucks so far. Um Let me 0:07:12.839 --> 0:07:16.200 just put it this way. Uh 40 million, the 1st 0:07:16.209 --> 0:07:16.660 40 0:07:17.329 --> 0:07:23.500 Uh much easier than the last 10. Um and um yeah, investors, 0:07:23.510 --> 0:07:29.339 their LPS everyone is looking at the unit economics um 0:07:29.350 --> 0:07:33.500 and profitability with a magnifying glass and that was not 0:07:33.510 --> 0:07:35.130 the case two years ago. I 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.380 Mean, one wonders whether the 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.079 good thing also has some downside, which is that you 0:07:41.089 --> 0:07:45.279 do want a lot of creative destruction and free uh, 0:07:45.290 --> 0:07:48.510 germination of ideas and very eager money. If that were 0:07:48.519 --> 0:07:51.130 to get constrained a little bit, maybe that 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.209 put some dark cloud for the outlook that, you know, 0:07:54.220 --> 0:07:56.690 we won't have that many interesting things percolating through the 0:07:56.700 --> 0:08:00.410 system because the fear of failure would constrain money going in. 0:08:01.029 --> 0:08:03.019 Yes, I mean, look, uh 0:08:03.859 --> 0:08:07.328 I think if, if, if you look, if you total 0:08:07.339 --> 0:08:10.510 up all venture capital globally, right? It's 0:08:11.179 --> 0:08:18.019 uh 2021 was about $700 billion right? Uh uh 0:08:19.029 --> 0:08:27.339 But I think it's settling that, that $400 billion 400 0:08:27.350 --> 0:08:27.880 billion 0:08:29.170 --> 0:08:32.619 on a global GDP of 100 trillion, right? 0:08:33.570 --> 0:08:38.020 That is your investment and innovation. And if that dries up, 0:08:38.729 --> 0:08:39.299 um 0:08:40.229 --> 0:08:41.318 I think that, 0:08:42.020 --> 0:08:46.159 you know, innovation in its truest sense, whether it's climate change, 0:08:46.169 --> 0:08:49.710 whether it's health, whether it's commerce, whether it's financial inclusion. 0:08:50.429 --> 0:08:53.799 Um that was slowed out. Um So 0:08:54.539 --> 0:08:59.520 yeah, there's some larger, much larger implication than, than um 0:08:59.789 --> 0:09:01.549 short term blame. Right. 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.478 Right. Now, which is, I think why we have seen 0:09:03.489 --> 0:09:07.069 regulators particularly in the us? Uh not necessarily go with 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.900 the playbook of just letting people who have more than 0:09:09.909 --> 0:09:12.549 $250,000 under the bus because I think those are the 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:17.609 concerns echoing through them to some extent, right from your journey. 0:09:17.799 --> 0:09:19.909 Are you, are we going to start talking about cricket 0:09:19.919 --> 0:09:22.770 or are we going to talk about something even before that? 0:09:23.270 --> 0:09:26.520 Um Yeah, I mean, we can start anywhere you like 0:09:26.659 --> 0:09:29.359 um how, where would you like to start? 0:09:29.369 --> 0:09:32.409 Well, tell us about your journey. What brought you to grass? 0:09:32.419 --> 0:09:34.400 What are going back to say 20, years? 0:09:35.650 --> 0:09:38.520 Oh man, loaded question. Uh 0:09:39.219 --> 0:09:42.659 So I guess my journey to borrow from Hollywood has 0:09:42.669 --> 0:09:43.630 been um 0:09:46.030 --> 0:09:48.840 I went from Mad Men and Maguire 0:09:50.090 --> 0:09:55.059 to today, Money Ball and Minority Report. I 0:09:55.070 --> 0:09:56.839 hope everybody got that. I got 0:09:58.619 --> 0:10:02.770 it right. So uh grew up in a um uh 0:10:02.979 --> 0:10:06.598 very much in a marketing family that was one job 0:10:06.609 --> 0:10:10.580 only all his life at Unilever mom worked at an agency, 0:10:10.700 --> 0:10:16.880 started off in, in, in advertising, moved into what embarrassed 0:10:16.890 --> 0:10:19.960 my father, which was something called sports marketing. 0:10:20.359 --> 0:10:25.890 Um and uh managing celebrities like the likes of Tendulkar 0:10:25.900 --> 0:10:30.549 and Ganguli. And um and he was embarrassed 0:10:31.179 --> 0:10:34.109 Until the movie Jerry Maguire came out and then it 0:10:34.119 --> 0:10:38.099 became the new sexy thing to do. Um and yeah, 0:10:38.109 --> 0:10:41.679 I ran that. I was fortunate had an exit uh 0:10:41.710 --> 0:10:45.479 early in my 20's. Um and then went on to 0:10:45.489 --> 0:10:46.510 found uh 0:10:47.140 --> 0:10:51.260 uh tech and digital marketing companies across India and Southeast 0:10:51.270 --> 0:10:56.760 Asia and the Valley um are now very firmly sconc 0:10:56.770 --> 0:11:01.090 in the world of data and artificial intelligence. Uh But 0:11:01.099 --> 0:11:05.750 with a marketing twist. Uh So marketing has run through my, 0:11:05.909 --> 0:11:08.669 I said the common thread, I guess that's run through 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:09.770 my existence. 0:11:10.130 --> 0:11:12.809 Right? Listen, I want to talk about grass of course. 0:11:12.820 --> 0:11:16.189 But before that, so staying with that issue of your 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.309 sort of journey over the last few decades, I see that, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.340 you know, you also advise a lot of companies and 0:11:20.349 --> 0:11:22.609 you also act as a direct investor in certain stuff. 0:11:22.780 --> 0:11:25.700 So those things are also with the marketing lens or 0:11:25.710 --> 0:11:27.140 you do some other stuff as well. 0:11:27.270 --> 0:11:31.219 Yeah, I mean, myself and my co-founder, we've been advising 0:11:31.229 --> 0:11:35.020 and investing in a multiple startups for a few years, 0:11:35.030 --> 0:11:35.348 but 0:11:36.059 --> 0:11:39.260 more often than not, it's startups that, you know, where 0:11:39.270 --> 0:11:43.289 we can add value uh that typically seed stage investments 0:11:43.299 --> 0:11:49.359 anywhere up to like half a million dollars. Um And yes, 0:11:49.369 --> 0:11:52.469 I would say marketing is the common thread because we're 0:11:52.479 --> 0:11:59.369 investing in companies that have some consumer facing business. Um 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.260 uh advertising included. 0:12:03.010 --> 0:12:03.229 OK. 0:12:03.530 --> 0:12:06.460 All right. Let's talk about Grass and let's see how 0:12:06.469 --> 0:12:08.659 that sort of culminates everything that you've been doing the 0:12:08.669 --> 0:12:09.880 last two decades. 0:12:11.049 --> 0:12:14.530 Um Yeah. So Grass actually is a sort of an 0:12:14.539 --> 0:12:18.189 acronym for growth as a service, which is a nice 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:24.460 play on. Um And uh they simply put where 0:12:25.140 --> 0:12:30.260 uh we help companies grow online. Um We help them 0:12:30.270 --> 0:12:34.200 grow topline and we help them manage margin. Uh And 0:12:34.210 --> 0:12:37.929 we use artificial intelligence and automation to, to do it. 0:12:38.289 --> 0:12:39.549 Uh So we take 0:12:40.190 --> 0:12:44.679 gut instinct out of the equation and, and we automate 0:12:44.869 --> 0:12:47.880 we automate their decision making via data. 0:12:48.690 --> 0:12:52.549 Um We're not your typical startup. Um 0:12:53.400 --> 0:13:00.030 You know, grass uh raised money in April 22. Uh 0:13:00.039 --> 0:13:07.770 we acquired two software companies. Um our thesis was that 0:13:07.780 --> 0:13:07.799 uh 0:13:08.609 --> 0:13:09.380 um 0:13:12.070 --> 0:13:12.919 retail 0:13:14.219 --> 0:13:18.179 and e-commerce and advertising are gonna become one and the 0:13:18.190 --> 0:13:22.909 same thing. Um And, and our thesis from two years ago, 0:13:24.219 --> 0:13:26.669 I think it's come true. Uh And we go into 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.750 that in a second. Um And 0:13:30.409 --> 0:13:31.789 yeah, I think we're also 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.900 geography is important unlike the US, which, you know, when 0:13:36.909 --> 0:13:37.390 you look at, 0:13:38.500 --> 0:13:41.840 you look at a country's GDP, uh you look at, 0:13:41.849 --> 0:13:44.789 let's say, at a global level, let's say the, the 0:13:44.799 --> 0:13:50.140 world does 100 trillion and, and GDP retail is probably 0:13:50.150 --> 0:13:56.349 about 30 trillion. E-commerce is probably six on that 30 trillion, right? 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:02.348 Uh It'll vary by country region. Uh But we play 0:14:02.690 --> 0:14:06.169 in from Mumbai to Manila where you're looking at 0:14:06.890 --> 0:14:10.728 A combined GDP of about seven trillion. Um 0:14:11.659 --> 0:14:12.189 um 0:14:13.489 --> 0:14:18.320 30% of that maybe is retail. Um but e-commerce is 0:14:18.330 --> 0:14:21.750 only $200 billion. Uh and so there's a lot of 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.760 room for growth. Now, what's peculiar is that 0:14:25.630 --> 0:14:28.229 in this part of the world, unlike the US or 0:14:28.239 --> 0:14:29.599 China and the US 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.210 to, to do well, online, you sort of, you know, 0:14:33.219 --> 0:14:36.250 you have Amazon, you have maybe Shopify and in China, 0:14:36.260 --> 0:14:38.609 you have Baba and you have G D dot com. And, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.140 but for some reason in India and Southeast Asia, you 0:14:43.150 --> 0:14:48.270 have a very peculiar um, scenario where you have, uh, 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.260 some of the world's largest companies going head to head 0:14:51.559 --> 0:14:57.289 for two things. Uh, one is e-commerce wallet spend, the 0:14:57.299 --> 0:14:58.989 other is advertising dollars. 0:14:59.419 --> 0:15:04.210 And so you have, uh, Amazon that you have reliance, 0:15:04.219 --> 0:15:07.770 you have 10cent, you have Alibaba, you have the C group, 0:15:07.780 --> 0:15:11.659 you have Tiktok, you have Google, you have Facebook, you 0:15:11.669 --> 0:15:16.229 have all these juggernauts um playing in this arena. 0:15:17.409 --> 0:15:20.299 And so when players of that 0:15:20.979 --> 0:15:28.190 intelligence capitalization and sophistication play in the same arena, um 0:15:28.929 --> 0:15:31.479 the only people who lose out actually are the people 0:15:31.739 --> 0:15:35.599 selling online, the brands, the companies, the, the small and 0:15:35.609 --> 0:15:37.000 medium sized businesses. 0:15:37.619 --> 0:15:39.559 And so we're here to try and level the playing 0:15:39.570 --> 0:15:41.510 field uh via A I 0:15:42.390 --> 0:15:44.400 OK. I'm going to give you a hypothetical. It's not 0:15:44.409 --> 0:15:47.549 entirely hypothetical because I know the company. So this friend 0:15:47.559 --> 0:15:49.960 of mine, he's trying to set up as a fledgling company. 0:15:49.969 --> 0:15:53.679 Uh It's about uh sports content based out of Singapore, 0:15:53.690 --> 0:15:57.349 broadcast sports content, but he has to face ESPN S 0:15:57.359 --> 0:16:00.179 and the, you know, big TV networks of the world. 0:16:00.369 --> 0:16:02.289 And so if he were to come to you and 0:16:02.299 --> 0:16:05.700 say that, you know, I have, you know, some approvals 0:16:05.710 --> 0:16:09.539 from the regulators to capture local sports content, 0:16:10.020 --> 0:16:11.789 but I have no idea how to monetize this. You know, 0:16:11.799 --> 0:16:14.590 who in Singapore wants to watch like school sports or 0:16:14.599 --> 0:16:17.530 premier League of Singapore for football or something like that. 0:16:17.780 --> 0:16:20.250 Um Again, we have not prepared for this at all. 0:16:20.260 --> 0:16:23.159 I'm just completely extempore. What kind of, you know, sort 0:16:23.169 --> 0:16:25.280 of strategy would you help a company like that do? 0:16:25.289 --> 0:16:26.609 Because you're talking about smallish 0:16:26.619 --> 0:16:29.669 companies. So he's not doing e-commerce, he's doing content, 0:16:29.679 --> 0:16:31.520 right. But he wants to, hopefully, you know, get a 0:16:31.530 --> 0:16:34.169 subscription service and sell it to people and that sort 0:16:34.179 --> 0:16:37.049 of stuff or sell it to other large content managers 0:16:37.059 --> 0:16:37.690 in the world 0:16:37.700 --> 0:16:40.190 that so that I think is more sort of under 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.260 or subscription services. And, and uh 0:16:45.309 --> 0:16:48.859 yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's not easy, it's 0:16:48.979 --> 0:16:49.010 not 0:16:49.609 --> 0:16:50.409 notice that already 0:16:51.010 --> 0:16:56.900 you're seeing. So you've got basically two, essentially two monetization models. 0:16:56.909 --> 0:16:57.710 You have 0:16:58.309 --> 0:17:02.830 uh subscription, uh and you have advertising and sometimes you 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:08.719 have a hybrid. Um and advertising is obviously based on, um, 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.589 it used to be based on eyeballs and how many 0:17:11.599 --> 0:17:16.890 people watch today. It's based on how many people buy. Correct. Right. 0:17:17.369 --> 0:17:21.319 Um So a little more difficult for a generic content 0:17:21.329 --> 0:17:26.839 operator like a Netflix to, to make the, um, 0:17:27.130 --> 0:17:30.800 to tie the, the, the loop between watching something and 0:17:30.810 --> 0:17:31.780 buying something, right. 0:17:33.099 --> 0:17:36.310 So that leaves the other business model which is subscription 0:17:36.319 --> 0:17:40.119 as a service or SAS. Um, look, the reality is, 0:17:40.130 --> 0:17:44.589 is that in India and Southeast Asia, um SARS has 0:17:44.599 --> 0:17:51.030 just started, um, you literally have, you know, a handful 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:56.430 of companies that have uh exited uh IP O or 0:17:56.439 --> 0:17:57.689 in terms of acquisition. 0:17:58.030 --> 0:18:01.310 Uh But the important thing is that it has started, 0:18:01.319 --> 0:18:05.300 um you know, and uh it doesn't, the region doesn't 0:18:05.310 --> 0:18:09.319 have the depth of, say A US. Um 0:18:09.910 --> 0:18:11.319 uh But where, 0:18:12.209 --> 0:18:16.260 But it's, it only started 234 years ago, maybe five. 0:18:16.939 --> 0:18:20.770 and we're seeing a lot of innovation in the space 0:18:20.780 --> 0:18:22.760 uh in terms of our monetization model. 0:18:23.510 --> 0:18:28.919 Uh So my advice to him would be um you know, 0:18:29.430 --> 0:18:30.040 uh 0:18:31.890 --> 0:18:36.819 it's difficult uh content is just a very, very difficult business, 0:18:36.829 --> 0:18:37.859 very investment 0:18:37.869 --> 0:18:43.849 intensive, investment intensive, long payback periods and so be patient, 0:18:43.859 --> 0:18:46.880 find your niche, right? But you know how you say 0:18:46.890 --> 0:18:51.260 this and then you and then you have um 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.069 what I thought was almost impossible where, you know, you 0:18:55.079 --> 0:18:56.930 have um 0:18:57.900 --> 0:19:02.930 influencers like a Mr beast who every time they put 0:19:02.939 --> 0:19:05.869 out something is watched more times than the Super Bowl. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.198 My 10 year old is an avid viewer, Kim 0:19:09.209 --> 0:19:12.500 Kardashian, another one. Every time she puts out something it's 0:19:12.510 --> 0:19:15.949 watched by more people than the Super Bowl or the 0:19:15.959 --> 0:19:17.030 IP L. So, 0:19:17.530 --> 0:19:21.069 uh you got to find that skate, right, right. Or 0:19:21.079 --> 0:19:23.300 you've got to go deep into a niche, I guess. 0:19:23.449 --> 0:19:25.420 OK. This might be a little closer to your heart. 0:19:25.430 --> 0:19:27.410 So I recently was in Bangladesh and we met a 0:19:27.420 --> 0:19:30.300 B2B company. Uh they are trying to become like the 0:19:30.310 --> 0:19:33.300 original form of Alibaba, which is bring brands to their 0:19:33.310 --> 0:19:36.619 marketplace and then connect these brands to retail stores in 0:19:36.630 --> 0:19:39.969 which they have uh good data and information about, you know, 0:19:39.979 --> 0:19:42.140 what is the demand side and they're trying to get 0:19:42.150 --> 0:19:45.319 like say a Unilever to Bangladesh and then market their products. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.290 They probably can benefit a lot from market intelligence and 0:19:50.300 --> 0:19:52.920 user data and so on. So your A I thread, 0:19:52.930 --> 0:19:54.270 how does that sort of feed in? 0:19:55.250 --> 0:19:55.780 So 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.448 I'll, I'll tell you a story about how grass started and, 0:20:00.459 --> 0:20:03.500 and the moment at which I thought this is now 0:20:03.510 --> 0:20:07.290 something very real and worth pursuing. Um I was talking to, 0:20:07.300 --> 0:20:11.770 I'm not gonna name names but uh a very senior 0:20:12.130 --> 0:20:14.810 chief marketing officer of one of the 0:20:15.500 --> 0:20:19.469 F MC G companies in Asia. Um but he said 0:20:19.479 --> 0:20:20.349 to me, he said, 0:20:21.060 --> 0:20:26.050 if you ask me how many chocolates I sold today 0:20:26.060 --> 0:20:26.949 in Vietnam 0:20:27.630 --> 0:20:34.040 on how many different channels uh website marketplace, uh or 0:20:34.050 --> 0:20:36.150 how much chocolate was like in my warehouse 0:20:36.900 --> 0:20:41.390 or how much Facebook or Google or tiktok contributed towards 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:42.629 the sale of that chocolate. 0:20:43.449 --> 0:20:45.030 He said it would take me the best part of 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.829 two weeks to find the answer. And I was like, wow, 0:20:48.979 --> 0:20:53.560 if a company of this size, uh has that problem, 0:20:53.569 --> 0:20:56.530 I wonder what's happening with smaller companies. And so we 0:20:56.540 --> 0:21:00.659 went and asked, you know, dozens of, of ecommerce heads 0:21:00.670 --> 0:21:05.040 and CEO S and the response was identical, which is 0:21:05.050 --> 0:21:06.649 that it is almost 0:21:07.069 --> 0:21:12.099 are impossible for companies to put all the different data 0:21:12.109 --> 0:21:14.959 sources together. They're very much in silos. 0:21:15.589 --> 0:21:16.159 Um 0:21:16.869 --> 0:21:20.300 So that's problem. Number one, collecting the data. Problem number 0:21:20.310 --> 0:21:22.099 two is 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.900 what do you do with the data? Right. Uh And 0:21:25.910 --> 0:21:27.149 that's really where 0:21:27.910 --> 0:21:34.040 data science um data engineering uh and A I come in. 0:21:34.369 --> 0:21:36.839 Um So I think India and Asia 0:21:37.810 --> 0:21:41.930 or Southeast Asia where at the start of the journey 0:21:41.939 --> 0:21:47.020 where companies are, are understanding the power of data um 0:21:47.030 --> 0:21:48.859 and putting it all together. 0:21:49.569 --> 0:21:52.119 Um But I would say if you had, 0:21:52.770 --> 0:21:55.890 If you were to ask me, I'd say less than 10% 0:21:55.900 --> 0:22:01.530 of companies uh in this region have understood, how important data, 0:22:01.540 --> 0:22:02.159 is 0:22:02.739 --> 0:22:05.229 how to put it together and what to do with it. 0:22:05.670 --> 0:22:08.910 Uh So it's very much the start of the journey. 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:09.599 Um 0:22:09.989 --> 0:22:14.619 So I am a prime example of this complication. I 0:22:14.630 --> 0:22:17.589 recognize the value of data. But this podcast, for example, 0:22:17.599 --> 0:22:19.109 will go out on a podcast platform, 0:22:19.579 --> 0:22:22.569 Apple Google, Spotify, et cetera. It'll go out on youtube 0:22:22.819 --> 0:22:24.869 and there's ad V S website in which there will 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.159 be some of my clients who will come and download 0:22:27.170 --> 0:22:30.839 the podcast or what the PDF version or the audio version, 0:22:30.930 --> 0:22:33.750 I can consolidate all this. I cannot. So for me, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:35.410 if you were to ask me a week from now, 0:22:35.780 --> 0:22:37.849 how did the podcast go? I'll be able to give 0:22:37.859 --> 0:22:40.699 you some isolated answers about how much download was done 0:22:40.709 --> 0:22:43.879 through the a specific class platform, but I will not 0:22:43.890 --> 0:22:46.419 be able to consolidate. It'll take me also hours, but 0:22:46.430 --> 0:22:46.520 you're 0:22:46.530 --> 0:22:48.930 not alone, you're not alone. Uh I mean, uh 0:22:50.109 --> 0:22:52.040 a lot of people won't admit it but they're in 0:22:52.050 --> 0:22:53.839 exactly the same position. I mean, 0:22:54.650 --> 0:22:57.319 I think that, you know, if you again, pull back 0:22:57.569 --> 0:23:00.869 for a second and you look at what's happened over 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.079 the last 20 or 30 years, I think that, 0:23:04.459 --> 0:23:05.109