WEBVTT - Kopi Time E068: Saurabh Jain on India’s dynamic tech start-up scene 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:11.560 Okay 0:00:14.540 --> 0:00:18.030 hello, you're listening to Cope in time. A podcast series 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.480 on markets and economies from DBS group research. I'm Tamra 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.630 Beck chief economist, welcome to our 68th episode, the first 0:00:25.630 --> 0:00:27.160 one of 2022. 0:00:28.140 --> 0:00:30.940 It is tempting to begin the year with global macro 0:00:31.190 --> 0:00:33.330 and trust me there will be plenty of that in 0:00:33.330 --> 0:00:34.460 the forthcoming episodes. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.380 But today's episode takes its cue from a couple of 0:00:38.380 --> 0:00:42.960 riveting conversations I've had with Sarah jane in the past year. 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.300 Sarah is the founder of connects SEO a provider of 0:00:47.300 --> 0:00:51.570 human capital services to organizations across Asia with a key 0:00:51.570 --> 0:00:53.250 focus on the startup system. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.870 From each of the conversations that I had with sort 0:00:56.870 --> 0:00:59.270 of over lunch in the last year or so. I've 0:00:59.270 --> 0:01:02.920 always come away with the feeling that something really interesting 0:01:02.930 --> 0:01:06.180 is going on in one particular area of Sarah's focus 0:01:06.180 --> 0:01:06.960 which is India 0:01:07.740 --> 0:01:13.750 the country scale entrepreneurial tradition, problem solving culture and just 0:01:13.750 --> 0:01:17.590 the current global juncture of where markets and geopolitics stand. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.850 Make the startup proposition there a very compelling one. 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.950 Sarah jane is a chartered accountant 0:01:24.340 --> 0:01:27.589 And an alumnus of I am Ahmedabad and Booth School 0:01:27.590 --> 0:01:31.330 of Business University of Chicago before setting up connections back 0:01:31.330 --> 0:01:35.180 in 2017. Sarah spent 12 years at Deutsche Bank where 0:01:35.180 --> 0:01:38.830 his last role was chief operating officer for a pack 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.759 corporate finance Sarah, welcome to cope in time. 0:01:43.940 --> 0:01:45.959 Thank you very much anymore. It's a pleasure to be here. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:47.529 Thank you so much for inviting me 0:01:47.580 --> 0:01:51.390 been looking forward to this. Let's begin by talking about 0:01:51.390 --> 0:01:52.160 the next show, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.950 Tell us a bit more about what it does and 0:01:55.950 --> 0:01:57.160 why did you set it up? 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.490 So um as you mentioned earlier can excuse fundamentally an 0:02:03.490 --> 0:02:07.090 HR consulting firm with a focus on recruiting and other 0:02:07.090 --> 0:02:11.660 management consulting activities related to human capital. 0:02:12.139 --> 0:02:16.840 Um I set it up in 2017 to help plug 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:21.290 gaps in how various human capital-related matters were being attended, 0:02:21.290 --> 0:02:26.750 to both by large organizations, as well as specifically the 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.049 startup ecosystem, which back in the day was already starting 0:02:30.050 --> 0:02:30.560 to 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:32.859 starting to grow quite quite rapidly. 0:02:33.340 --> 0:02:36.880 Um from from a personal perspective, I've had the good 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.250 fortune to, to live and work in a number of 0:02:39.260 --> 0:02:44.649 different geographies, the continent, europe, the America Southeast Asia and India. 0:02:44.660 --> 0:02:47.620 And after a corporate career of 15, 16 years, I 0:02:47.630 --> 0:02:50.520 really wanted to see if I could synthesize some of 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.359 the experiences that I've had, 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:56.169 bring them together and drawn them to help at the 0:02:56.169 --> 0:02:59.989 executives in the large companies, all founders of the XO 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.910 CXS in the startup ecosystem to have them solve some 0:03:02.910 --> 0:03:04.639 of the issues that they were looking for, that that 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:05.360 they were addressing. 0:03:05.940 --> 0:03:08.590 That was the main reason why I actually said connect 0:03:08.590 --> 0:03:10.560 you up about almost five years ago 0:03:11.139 --> 0:03:13.500 and how has it gone so far? How has it 0:03:13.500 --> 0:03:17.030 been running a business based out of Singapore, but with 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.350 a lens that goes to South Asia and perhaps even beyond. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:26.190 Yeah, no, you're right about beyond because our gambit has grown, 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:30.399 We now cover stuff across ASIA. So starting with clients 0:03:30.410 --> 0:03:33.800 in the Middle East through South Asia, Southeast Asia and 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:34.360 Hong kong 0:03:34.740 --> 0:03:35.660 um 0:03:36.340 --> 0:03:39.440 Being based in Singapore and running a regional business while 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.700 Singapore is probably the best place to be based in 0:03:41.700 --> 0:03:43.450 for a variety of infrastructural reasons. 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.460 Um and then through covid, like many other, many other organizations, 0:03:48.460 --> 0:03:52.650 we've learned to adapt, we've learned to use technology, we've 0:03:52.650 --> 0:03:56.260 learned to uh to build S. O. Ps internally. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.480 The key thing that both me and my very high 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.840 quality management team have focused on is to ensure that 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.190 execution doesn't miss a beat. Um And so far I'd 0:04:05.190 --> 0:04:07.780 like to, I'd like to believe have been fairly successful 0:04:07.780 --> 0:04:11.250 in that like I said, by using, by using technology 0:04:11.250 --> 0:04:13.340 to support our business efforts, 0:04:13.380 --> 0:04:16.460 but very soon will you start traveling vigorously again 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.350 for sure. 100%. I have already dipped my tour. I've 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.529 been fortunate to be able to make a couple of 0:04:23.540 --> 0:04:26.820 trips recently to the bay Area where many of our 0:04:26.820 --> 0:04:31.859 investor clients are. Um and also to, to India. Um and, 0:04:31.860 --> 0:04:36.260 and yes, it's it's quite clear that although the future 0:04:36.260 --> 0:04:37.060 of work, 0:04:37.740 --> 0:04:40.650 the the nature of the future of work remains uncertain 0:04:40.650 --> 0:04:43.330 and of course there are evangelists on both sides. The 0:04:43.330 --> 0:04:47.250 fact is that people have started engaging again personally, which 0:04:47.250 --> 0:04:50.359 is definitely critical for the world as it emerges from 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:51.060 the pandemic. 0:04:51.740 --> 0:04:53.400 So sir, I want to talk to you about the 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.610 indian ecosystem momentarily. But since you were talking about the 0:04:55.610 --> 0:04:57.910 future of work, let me pick your brain a little bit. 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:02.860 So in the process of setting up companies, whether it 0:05:02.860 --> 0:05:07.160 is in Singapore or in South Asia or elsewhere 0:05:07.540 --> 0:05:08.350 are 0:05:08.940 --> 0:05:13.450 employers trying to become more flexible and, and how has 0:05:13.450 --> 0:05:15.810 that experience been during these two years of covid and 0:05:15.810 --> 0:05:17.490 by flexible, I mean, you know, work from home sort 0:05:17.490 --> 0:05:17.849 of thing. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:23.960 Um, I think it remains an evolving situation. I think 0:05:23.970 --> 0:05:25.660 to a large extent the world, 0:05:26.540 --> 0:05:31.560 the certain parts of the world declared victory once Delta 0:05:31.570 --> 0:05:34.990 started dying down. Uh, and then on the economic front 0:05:34.990 --> 0:05:36.049 came up, 0:05:36.740 --> 0:05:39.760 I think with omicron, the acceptance that 0:05:40.140 --> 0:05:44.339 hybrid is here to stay for a while is starting 0:05:44.339 --> 0:05:45.860 to set in a little bit deeper. 0:05:46.339 --> 0:05:48.789 There are people still hesitating to call 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:54.300 the complete end of full time work, but at a 0:05:54.300 --> 0:05:57.659 more kind of grassroots or at a more practical level. Um, 0:05:58.140 --> 0:06:01.740 there was definitely a move towards officers opening full time 0:06:01.740 --> 0:06:05.720 and the expectation that employees would work full time over, 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.140 let's say late Q two, early, early Q three as 0:06:09.150 --> 0:06:12.080 the worst of Delta seemed to be behind us in 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.279 the region in most countries. But now I think it's, it's, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.130 it's fair to say that that's for me in the 0:06:17.130 --> 0:06:17.760 back seat. 0:06:17.940 --> 0:06:18.560 Um, 0:06:18.740 --> 0:06:21.480 despite the acceptance that omicron may not be as lethal 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.850 as Delta, I think employers recognize that it's perhaps too 0:06:25.850 --> 0:06:28.990 early for full time return to work and we're definitely 0:06:28.990 --> 0:06:31.310 seeing a move back to Italy's hybrid. And in the 0:06:31.310 --> 0:06:34.580 case of especially MNCS to return to work from home 0:06:34.580 --> 0:06:35.360 to some extent. 0:06:35.940 --> 0:06:38.830 Okay, so let me one more follow up question Sarah, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:44.120 the idea of remote work is not new. My cousin 0:06:44.130 --> 0:06:46.690 in san Jose way back in the early 19 nineties, 0:06:46.700 --> 0:06:49.880 worked for global software development team where some of them 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.270 were in India, somewhere in East Asia, somewhere in the 0:06:52.270 --> 0:06:54.060 US across time zones, 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.159 producing a product that then IBM 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.160 marketed. How are 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.710 How are these things or these recent developments any different 0:07:02.710 --> 0:07:04.549 from what my cousin used to do 30 years ago? 0:07:06.740 --> 0:07:09.160 I think your cousin was then the exception 0:07:10.140 --> 0:07:15.530 and it's now becoming increasingly the rule. Um, and the 0:07:15.530 --> 0:07:19.310 thing is what, what, what we're seeing, especially in the 0:07:19.310 --> 0:07:20.760 developing countries in the region, 0:07:21.140 --> 0:07:24.740 is that changing the nature of work isn't just about 0:07:24.740 --> 0:07:28.090 putting boundaries around how and where you do your work from. 0:07:28.250 --> 0:07:31.160 It also means changes in how you live. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:36.190 It means changes in your domestic infrastructure. It means sometimes 0:07:36.190 --> 0:07:39.360 changes in the social dynamics within a family's home. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:44.290 Um, and in parts of the world like Asia, where 0:07:44.300 --> 0:07:48.880 there are often multigenerational families living together or there are 0:07:48.890 --> 0:07:55.430 certain preconceived notions about gender rules, etcetera. Uh, there are 0:07:55.430 --> 0:07:58.020 second order 3rd and 3rd order impacts that I think 0:07:58.020 --> 0:07:59.160 are still being, uh, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.160 are still being fleshed out 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.239 by societies at large. 0:08:03.940 --> 0:08:05.160 It's not 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.160 work from home is not necessarily for all parts of society, 0:08:10.170 --> 0:08:14.160 the Holy Grail or at least not as consistently or 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.480 in as wide ranging a manager Manager, wide ranging a 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.380 manner here in asIA as it might be in certain 0:08:21.380 --> 0:08:22.260 developed countries. 0:08:22.740 --> 0:08:24.060 Makes sense. Makes sense. 0:08:24.070 --> 0:08:27.410 Alright, so much deeper. Happy to come back for episode 0:08:27.410 --> 0:08:28.610 73 to discuss that. 0:08:28.620 --> 0:08:34.170 Absolutely. Okay, let's talk about the middle of our conversation. 0:08:34.170 --> 0:08:37.660 So let's get into India, you've spent quite a bit 0:08:37.660 --> 0:08:41.100 of time in the last few years working across various 0:08:41.110 --> 0:08:43.050 segments of the indian talent pool. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.770 Um so why don't you get us going by giving 0:08:46.770 --> 0:08:50.140 us a little bit of idea about the supply of talent, 0:08:50.150 --> 0:08:54.270 the demand for talent idiosyncrasies around India, the depth of 0:08:54.270 --> 0:08:55.950 skill that everybody talks about. So 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.650 give us get us going with indian town pool. 0:09:01.340 --> 0:09:02.920 The indian talent pool 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.720 as a well known fact is vast. That's the only 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.449 word for it's absolutely vast. Um 0:09:09.140 --> 0:09:10.850 it's vast, it's wide 0:09:11.340 --> 0:09:13.650 and I think the most interesting aspect of it 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:15.960 is that it keeps auto refreshing. 0:09:16.540 --> 0:09:17.050 Um 0:09:18.140 --> 0:09:23.339 it's very flexible every few years. People naturally upscale or 0:09:23.340 --> 0:09:26.929 re skill themselves to make themselves relevant for what is 0:09:26.929 --> 0:09:31.960 becoming an extremely dynamic, extremely dynamic, dynamic working environment. 0:09:32.340 --> 0:09:35.360 I mean tech is probably a great example of that 0:09:35.370 --> 0:09:38.370 to just a handful of years ago, the bulk of 0:09:38.370 --> 0:09:41.440 the demand in India was for I. T. Services companies, 0:09:41.450 --> 0:09:46.100 the old major's right, The companies like Tcs were proposed 0:09:46.100 --> 0:09:49.560 that the mxcl etcetera on which the entire backbone of 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.959 the indian technology ecosystem has been built 0:09:52.140 --> 0:09:54.360 and for which the country is going to be eternally grateful. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.670 But if you look at where what's happening nowadays, the 0:09:58.670 --> 0:10:02.280 technologies that the new startups are looking for um and 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.359 the kind of skills that they're looking for have evolved 0:10:05.740 --> 0:10:10.290 because because there is clearly a move from a high 0:10:10.290 --> 0:10:14.300 degree of demand for service based skills to product company 0:10:14.300 --> 0:10:17.390 based skills and and things like that are a pretty 0:10:17.390 --> 0:10:22.670 inexorable change and represent an upscaling of the overall workforce 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.860 which perhaps for the decade or so before, that 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.650 hadn't happened. And as kind of conclusive manner as it 0:10:30.650 --> 0:10:32.250 has now. Um 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:39.470 in terms of in terms of demand, um I think 0:10:39.470 --> 0:10:40.460 you'll find that 0:10:41.140 --> 0:10:43.930 almost any statistic you look at with respect to the 0:10:43.929 --> 0:10:46.720 startup ecosystem in particular because that's I know what you 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.819 want to focus on today. The number of jobs being 0:10:50.820 --> 0:10:52.449 created is absolutely massive. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.079 Uh If you if you only look at the startups 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.880 that are registered or within the ambit of government registration, 0:10:59.890 --> 0:11:03.100 uh there were a few 100,000, a couple of 100,000 0:11:03.100 --> 0:11:05.900 jobs created last year. The true number. If you talked 0:11:05.900 --> 0:11:09.670 to any of the founders uh and after you clean 0:11:09.670 --> 0:11:11.650 out the Raiders probably 4 to 5 times that 0:11:11.940 --> 0:11:13.860 just just in the last year. 0:11:14.140 --> 0:11:17.309 And then if you look at the related uh Ancillary 0:11:17.309 --> 0:11:19.920 jobs created, You multiply that by another 2 to 3 times. 0:11:19.929 --> 0:11:22.680 So you're potentially looking at perhaps as much as a 0:11:22.690 --> 0:11:25.600 job creation of one million just in the last 12 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.650 months by the startup ecosystem. Um uh 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.760 Again by government estimates the number of white collar jobs 0:11:33.770 --> 0:11:36.230 expected to be created in the next year is about 0:11:36.230 --> 0:11:41.079 again between 150-200,000. And again this is only by startups 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.400 that are within the ambit of the government, there would 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.080 be a whole bunch of other companies that may not 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:45.560 be there. 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.670 So in terms of both supply and demand, I think 0:11:48.670 --> 0:11:52.200 we're at a historic juncture um there will always be 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.679 a degree of distortion. Sometimes the supplies too much, sometimes 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.080 the demand is too much. But in terms of this 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.220 becoming an ecosystem that is driving economic growth in India 0:12:02.220 --> 0:12:05.359 this definitely is um is 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:06.660 the most important 0:12:06.740 --> 0:12:07.760 growth factor right now. 0:12:08.740 --> 0:12:13.130 Sarah Help me confirm or dispel this notion that I have. 0:12:13.140 --> 0:12:18.090 My notion is that in the last 20 years the 0:12:18.100 --> 0:12:22.359 orientation of the tech service industry in India has 0:12:22.740 --> 0:12:26.400 been transformed from one that was primarily export oriented. So 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.750 the T. C. S. S that you were talking about, 0:12:28.750 --> 0:12:31.650 it was providing I. T. Services to various global MNCs 0:12:31.660 --> 0:12:35.739 and their investment was also about indians working for an 0:12:35.740 --> 0:12:38.390 MNC to provide services to their customers in the US 0:12:38.390 --> 0:12:41.740 europe wherever. And my notion is that it's changing as 0:12:41.740 --> 0:12:44.150 we speak and some of the businesses that you're working with, 0:12:44.340 --> 0:12:48.000 they're actually looking at providing services to indian customers earning 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.060 revenue in India, is that an accurate notion? 0:12:52.940 --> 0:12:57.460 It most certainly is. Um and I think the second 0:12:57.460 --> 0:13:02.000 order impact of that also is that the relative attraction 0:13:02.010 --> 0:13:06.260 of working for the domestic sector as the startup ecosystem 0:13:06.260 --> 0:13:09.040 becomes more and more mature, it becomes more and more 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.460 pervasive is becoming stronger and stronger. Um 0:13:12.540 --> 0:13:13.559 uh 0:13:13.940 --> 0:13:17.790 you know, the the traditional concepts of job security et cetera, 0:13:17.790 --> 0:13:22.080 jobs for life, which mattered so much to people coming to, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.070 to to fresh limited employees coming out of uh out 0:13:26.070 --> 0:13:30.709 of engineering colleges for example, um that's not necessarily as 0:13:30.710 --> 0:13:31.360 much 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.440 of a critical factor anymore because the opportunities in the 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.990 startup ecosystem like you said, where their various servicing the 0:13:36.990 --> 0:13:38.160 domestic ecosystem 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.630 are absolutely humongous. Now, also, I guess with the world 0:13:41.630 --> 0:13:46.329 becoming a more close place with many, many countries uh 0:13:46.340 --> 0:13:50.720 forcing or rather encouraging their businesses to hire locally and 0:13:50.730 --> 0:13:55.439 discouraging offshoring of jobs that in a in a way 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:56.750 has also supported 0:13:56.900 --> 0:14:00.860 the movement of tech talent towards the, towards the startup ecosystem. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.030 Do you see a lot because you said earlier that, 0:14:04.030 --> 0:14:05.490 you know, you have been to the area as one 0:14:05.490 --> 0:14:09.010 of your first travel destinations for work. So there is 0:14:09.010 --> 0:14:10.059 a lot of 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:14.250 indian entrepreneurs who have succeeded in the west and now 0:14:14.250 --> 0:14:16.460 they're bringing their capital or know how back to India? 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:22.920 Um yes. Uh there there there is certainly a lot 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.590 of that happening in in multiple ways. Uh there are 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.430 a bunch of entrepreneurs whose businesses are fundamentally maybe us 0:14:30.430 --> 0:14:33.830 oriented or europe oriented and are therefore not that well 0:14:33.830 --> 0:14:34.660 known in India 0:14:34.940 --> 0:14:37.770 would have already set up large tax centers or R 0:14:37.770 --> 0:14:39.160 and D centers in India 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.270 because these companies are not household names there perhaps not 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.920 as well known in India or or they work in 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.330 fields which are perhaps not very large and not that 0:14:48.330 --> 0:14:50.550 cologne India. So there's already a lot of that happening. 0:14:50.940 --> 0:14:54.930 But but what we've also seen and what I've personally 0:14:54.930 --> 0:14:58.030 seen talking to a lot of senior founders and and 0:14:58.030 --> 0:15:00.640 and C. X. O. S in the west, especially in 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.750 the tech enabled ecosystem is that 0:15:04.140 --> 0:15:07.860 Covid has perhaps got many of them to start thinking 0:15:07.860 --> 0:15:12.100 about some of the longer term life priorities. And although 0:15:12.100 --> 0:15:15.190 obviously Covid was a terrible, terrible time for people globally. 0:15:15.190 --> 0:15:18.540 And the issues in India are well documented during, during 0:15:18.540 --> 0:15:22.190 the delta way last year. Um there's an increasing shift 0:15:22.190 --> 0:15:23.060 in mindset 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.160 of people who thought they were going to be living 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:26.820 abroad overseas. And I want to come back to be 0:15:26.820 --> 0:15:29.850 closer to family, be closer to home. And also, frankly 0:15:29.860 --> 0:15:33.240 over the last 2.5, 3 years, just before Covid started 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.790 and through Covid because the indian ecosystem has been so vibrant. 0:15:35.790 --> 0:15:38.390 I mean $25 billion on average of investment coming in 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:39.060 every year, 0:15:39.140 --> 0:15:40.900 which means that a lot of these guys say that, 0:15:40.900 --> 0:15:43.270 you know, we can build careers in India and be 0:15:43.270 --> 0:15:44.750 close to our, 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.500 to our families and to our native ecosystems. There's a 0:15:47.500 --> 0:15:49.590 lot of that going on right now. In fact, we're 0:15:49.590 --> 0:15:52.350 having multiple conversations with people in the barrier who want 0:15:52.350 --> 0:15:54.860 to explore opportunities back in India right now. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.310 You know, Sarah, when I was in college in the US, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.590 there were always two groups of people you have the 0:16:01.590 --> 0:16:05.700 southeast asians, the Malaysians, Indonesians thais who had no question 0:16:05.710 --> 0:16:08.030 of settling in the west for them, they were there 0:16:08.030 --> 0:16:12.790 to study because they had comfortable lives and capital and 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:14.540 job opportunities back home and they were all going to 0:16:14.540 --> 0:16:17.100 come back. Whereas those of us from South Asia, we 0:16:17.100 --> 0:16:19.310 basically had only one thing in mind which is to 0:16:19.310 --> 0:16:22.640 make the Westar home. I'm so happy to see what 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.050 you just described, which is that South Asia is becoming 0:16:25.050 --> 0:16:26.830 a bit like East Asia that there is enough of 0:16:26.830 --> 0:16:30.270 an ecosystem that leaving home to go abroad to study 0:16:30.270 --> 0:16:32.860 does not become a one way destination. It can be 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.560 choose to stay there or choose to come back or 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.160 do both through the course of your life. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.580 Yes. And what what is also further encouraging is that 0:16:41.590 --> 0:16:44.120 it's not limited just to people who have a very 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.830 specific technical skill set like there, you know, the technology professionals, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.760 nor is this limited just to people who may be 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.200 exited a startup and a huge amounts of capital and 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:54.570 can 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.610 financially and not have to think twice about moving back 0:16:57.610 --> 0:16:58.770 and setting something up. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.800 We're also talking about mid career people who are looking 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.429 to see if they can transport the skills and the 0:17:05.430 --> 0:17:08.520 experience that they have back to India. And to be 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.379 fair to the indian senior management and founders, um, a 0:17:12.390 --> 0:17:15.230 lot of them are very open to talking to returning 0:17:15.230 --> 0:17:17.270 indians to explore if 0:17:17.340 --> 0:17:20.560 their experiences can be transported back. So I do think 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:20.960 that 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:26.260 this is going to become a reasonably uh reasonably well 0:17:26.260 --> 0:17:30.950 populated pipeline of talent returning indians over the next year 0:17:30.950 --> 0:17:31.359 or two. 0:17:32.340 --> 0:17:36.490 Could you share us with a couple of examples of 0:17:36.490 --> 0:17:38.910 the scale and dynamics in that we're talking about like 0:17:38.910 --> 0:17:41.460 when a startup ceo comes to you, 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.040 Is he or she asking you to help recruit five people, 0:17:45.050 --> 0:17:47.750 50 people or more? And what kind of fields are 0:17:47.750 --> 0:17:49.990 they hiring and how are they, sort of, how quickly 0:17:49.990 --> 0:17:50.860 are they moving about? 0:17:52.340 --> 0:17:55.390 So, I'm gonna take the second part of that question. First, 0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:00.060 speed is the speed at which these guys move is 0:18:00.060 --> 0:18:00.669 impressive 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.850 and I'm not suggesting they're moving fast just because they 0:18:05.850 --> 0:18:09.500 want to break a few things. Uh, they move fast, 0:18:09.510 --> 0:18:15.950 but they do fairly, they do good comprehensive evaluations of candidates, 0:18:15.950 --> 0:18:18.270 but they just move quickly because 0:18:19.740 --> 0:18:23.470 they just want to get operationalized really quickly. Uh, they're 0:18:23.470 --> 0:18:24.270 all under 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.109 a lot of self, in many cases, self created pressure, 0:18:27.109 --> 0:18:29.629 but these are all driven people, these are all people 0:18:29.630 --> 0:18:32.570 who have made commitments to themselves, maybe to the stakeholders 0:18:32.570 --> 0:18:34.340 that they're going to get to certain points in certain 0:18:34.340 --> 0:18:37.540 periods of time. Uh There is increasingly a lot of 0:18:37.540 --> 0:18:40.960 competitive pressure, any niche that you might be operating in India. 0:18:41.340 --> 0:18:41.959 Um 0:18:42.340 --> 0:18:45.820 so they definitely moved quickly, they move fast, they moved 0:18:45.820 --> 0:18:51.160 decisively um um in terms of the skill um 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.800 again, harking back to the data that that that I 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:54.760 mentioned earlier, 0:18:55.140 --> 0:18:55.860 um 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.460 the average new startup in a year 0:18:59.940 --> 0:19:05.440 and I'm talking about the entire spectrum from completely bootstrapped 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.280 ones to others that obviously to others that might, that 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:10.460 might have raised a lot of money 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.640 On average, if you say about 50,000 startups got registered 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.240 last year, the average hiring per startup is maybe 10-15 0:19:17.250 --> 0:19:19.560 in a year. However, however, 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.080 The key thing to keep in mind over here is 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.810 that a lot of these startups are raising between say 0:19:25.820 --> 0:19:29.240 anything between 2030 million 150 million or even more in 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:30.859 some cases of seed capital, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.560 which means that on day one they have the ability 0:19:33.570 --> 0:19:37.010 to have a fully functional organization in place as opposed 0:19:37.010 --> 0:19:39.940 to an organization that will grow organically over time as 0:19:39.940 --> 0:19:40.449 they grow. 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.280 And these kinds of startups are potentially hitting the ground 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.000 running with, you know, 100 203 100 employees in the 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.630 first quarter of of operation, which if you think about it, 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.780 you're going from getting a first dollar into the bank 0:19:52.790 --> 0:19:56.730 to having a fully functioning revenue generating organization within three 0:19:56.730 --> 0:19:59.170 months with a couple of 100 people. That is 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.060 quite an impressive task. And 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.650 are we have founders that we work with are completely 0:20:04.650 --> 0:20:08.770 up to this challenge? Uh It's such, such, such impressive people, 0:20:09.740 --> 0:20:13.660 sort of, if you have thousands of startups coming to 0:20:13.740 --> 0:20:17.480 life every year and each trying to hire 10, 20 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.460 people leading to hundreds of thousands of 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.970 people getting employed, that also means there's tremendous competition for talent. 0:20:23.980 --> 0:20:27.130 So how are you advising these employers to keep their 0:20:27.130 --> 0:20:30.820 talents sticky, because I hear a lot about attrition, which 0:20:30.820 --> 0:20:33.280 is not India specific all over the world, that's an issue. 0:20:33.300 --> 0:20:35.990 And so, but how are indian entrepreneurs sort of dealing 0:20:35.990 --> 0:20:36.850 with this challenge? 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.930 The reality is that there's a lot of money chasing 0:20:44.109 --> 0:20:46.950 a very large talent pool, but there is a lot 0:20:46.950 --> 0:20:48.160 of money chasing it right now. 0:20:48.540 --> 0:20:52.050 Um, so there is always, there is 0:20:52.540 --> 0:20:54.700 in the current environment going to a higher degree of 0:20:54.700 --> 0:20:59.169 turn uh than is perhaps ideal for for the ecosystem. 0:20:59.540 --> 0:21:02.660 But what I think increasingly, our founders in India have 0:21:02.660 --> 0:21:06.619