1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:01,850 Speaker 1: Mhm 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,790 Speaker 1: Hello, you're listening to Kobe time, a podcast series from 3 00:00:10,789 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: markets and economies from DBS group research. I'm camera big 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: chief economist. Welcome to our 76 5 00:00:16,650 --> 00:00:17,250 Speaker 2: episodes. 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,299 Speaker 1: My dear listeners and viewers. Today's guest is not like 7 00:00:21,310 --> 00:00:23,250 Speaker 1: anyone we've had in covid time history 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,850 Speaker 1: Cl Ean works for Go Jek as the Singapore general 9 00:00:26,850 --> 00:00:30,030 Speaker 1: manager and also leads the driver operations across all countries. 10 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,870 Speaker 1: Go Jek is a southeast asian online platform providing access 11 00:00:33,870 --> 00:00:37,860 Speaker 1: to services including transport, payments, food delivery and logistics. 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: Before go Jek leon worked at Mckinsey where he was 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,890 Speaker 1: based in china and spend time in Sierra Leone helping 14 00:00:43,890 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: deal with Ebola. Prior to that, leon was a commando 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,350 Speaker 1: officer in the Singapore Armed forces where he led a 16 00:00:50,350 --> 00:00:53,750 Speaker 1: battalion and was in East timor as a U. N. Peacekeeper. 17 00:00:54,140 --> 00:00:57,390 Speaker 1: An avid adventure. And this is where the differentiating part 18 00:00:57,390 --> 00:01:00,030 Speaker 1: comes in leon is the first guest in Covid time 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,470 Speaker 1: to have climbed the tallest peaks in the world including 20 00:01:02,470 --> 00:01:05,140 Speaker 1: Mount Everest and K. Two. He has done things like 21 00:01:05,150 --> 00:01:09,170 Speaker 1: run 250 kilometers ultramarathon through amazon jungles and the Gobi 22 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: desert and he's done all sorts of expeditions in North 23 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Pole and South Pole. Now that's 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: a renaissance man for you. 25 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,260 Speaker 1: Cl ean, Welcome to Kobe time. 26 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,060 Speaker 2: Hey time, a real pleasure to be here and 27 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: Running podcasts, you know, are really not easy, 76 editions 28 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,310 Speaker 2: is even more impressive. So real, real, real pleasure to 29 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: be here. 30 00:01:28,770 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's a little easier than running 250 km Leanne. 31 00:01:33,569 --> 00:01:38,190 Speaker 1: Let's start by talking about your motivation. Um you have 32 00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:41,050 Speaker 1: done a lot of physically demanding pursuits in your life 33 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,470 Speaker 1: then of course, you know, you kind of settle down 34 00:01:43,470 --> 00:01:45,060 Speaker 1: and did some desk stuff. 35 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,290 Speaker 1: But how did your journey all the way to go, 36 00:01:47,290 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: jek transpire. 37 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I guess I'll speak a little bit about 38 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,750 Speaker 2: them and adventurous stuff. It's, it's, it's a good story. 39 00:01:57,140 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: Um, 40 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,170 Speaker 2: probably, you know, runs through three stages when you're young. 41 00:02:02,180 --> 00:02:06,660 Speaker 2: You are young, foolhardy, reckless. But you are about to explore. 42 00:02:06,660 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: You don't know what you don't know. 43 00:02:08,139 --> 00:02:10,260 Speaker 2: And that was my climbing journey. 44 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,220 Speaker 2: The first time you climb, it's really to see what, 45 00:02:13,220 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: it's all, what, what is, what is this all about? 46 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,230 Speaker 2: What is the experience? Somebody asked you and you go 47 00:02:17,230 --> 00:02:19,570 Speaker 2: on a trip and I've got a good story about that. 48 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:22,550 Speaker 2: But the first, the first, the first trip, 49 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,460 Speaker 2: uh, 50 00:02:24,940 --> 00:02:27,660 Speaker 2: which kind of had some good learning lessons 51 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,790 Speaker 2: when it became a second trip and a third trip. 52 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,589 Speaker 2: And after a while you want to become a little 53 00:02:32,590 --> 00:02:34,690 Speaker 2: bit better. You want to have a little bit more mastery. 54 00:02:34,690 --> 00:02:36,859 Speaker 2: You want to challenge yourself a little bit more. You 55 00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:38,150 Speaker 2: want to see a little bit more of the 56 00:02:38,540 --> 00:02:41,740 Speaker 2: uh, the bigger names that people have been talking about 57 00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:46,780 Speaker 2: the story, uh, peaks and mountains and trips and places 58 00:02:46,780 --> 00:02:49,710 Speaker 2: that have been written about and that probably is the 59 00:02:49,710 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: second arc. 60 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,350 Speaker 2: And then as you sort of get into the 61 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:57,260 Speaker 2: later stages, you do it because you really enjoy doing it. Uh, I'm, 62 00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: you know, probably still somewhere between the second and the 63 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,450 Speaker 2: third stage, I try to do a trip, 64 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,710 Speaker 2: you know, every year. So that's on the, on the 65 00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:05,460 Speaker 2: personal side 66 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: in terms of adventure, I'll tell a very short story though, 67 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:09,350 Speaker 2: which is 68 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,070 Speaker 2: this foolhardy uh you don't know what, you don't know 69 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,049 Speaker 2: and that's why there's a survivor sort of statistic that 70 00:03:18,050 --> 00:03:19,740 Speaker 2: if you make it past the first few months of 71 00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:23,460 Speaker 2: any product or company, then you're probably okay. The first 72 00:03:23,460 --> 00:03:26,169 Speaker 2: time I went to climb a mountain I had with 73 00:03:26,169 --> 00:03:27,049 Speaker 2: me on my 74 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:28,660 Speaker 2: climb towards the summit, 75 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,290 Speaker 2: I was wondering why everyone was moving much faster than 76 00:03:31,290 --> 00:03:33,870 Speaker 2: I was. It was in California is a one thing 77 00:03:33,870 --> 00:03:36,530 Speaker 2: called Shasta and I realized that, you know, they all 78 00:03:36,530 --> 00:03:39,780 Speaker 2: have very light packs and I noted to myself that 79 00:03:39,780 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: in my pack I had 80 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:44,590 Speaker 2: this really heavy book called the Freedom of the Hills 81 00:03:44,590 --> 00:03:46,950 Speaker 2: and anyone who's familiar with it knows that it is 82 00:03:46,950 --> 00:03:49,410 Speaker 2: the bible of climbing, which also means that it is 83 00:03:49,410 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: a good, you know, several kilo tomes 84 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:54,150 Speaker 2: and I had, you know, things like my, 85 00:03:54,540 --> 00:03:55,950 Speaker 2: my my heavy 86 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,250 Speaker 2: torchlight talking about men like they're just huge metal contraption. 87 00:04:00,740 --> 00:04:03,390 Speaker 2: So anyway, long story short is I ditched all my 88 00:04:03,390 --> 00:04:05,930 Speaker 2: stuff and managed to make it into the peak at 89 00:04:05,930 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: the cut off time, the very last person to be 90 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,260 Speaker 2: allowed on that day. 91 00:04:08,740 --> 00:04:13,780 Speaker 2: So from those rather inauspicious beginnings became this pretty much 92 00:04:13,780 --> 00:04:17,740 Speaker 2: a lifelong love affair with climbing and the outdoors. So 93 00:04:17,750 --> 00:04:18,060 Speaker 2: uh 94 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,020 Speaker 2: if you survive the first few times and you kind 95 00:04:21,020 --> 00:04:23,140 Speaker 2: of enjoy it, then hopefully you'll carry on doing it 96 00:04:23,150 --> 00:04:24,659 Speaker 2: whatever endeavor it is 97 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,170 Speaker 1: leon we'll we'll talk about the transition into, go check 98 00:04:29,170 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: in a second, but I just want to ask one 99 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,660 Speaker 1: specific question okay, going up the mountain is one thing, 100 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,130 Speaker 1: But running across a desert for 206 km seems like 101 00:04:38,130 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: a absolutely insane order of pain. 102 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:42,860 Speaker 1: Why would you subject yourself to that? 103 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:45,850 Speaker 2: Ah 104 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:47,380 Speaker 2: It's good 105 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: scenery. 106 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,420 Speaker 2: There are a bunch of ultramarathons now and people can 107 00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:59,030 Speaker 2: talk about uh the meditative aspects of it, the terrain. 108 00:04:59,029 --> 00:05:00,940 Speaker 2: I mean it is beautiful. First, I'll start off with, 109 00:05:00,950 --> 00:05:03,900 Speaker 2: it is really beautiful when you're running across the desert. 110 00:05:03,910 --> 00:05:06,350 Speaker 2: And some are really, I've got some nice pictures on 111 00:05:06,350 --> 00:05:09,150 Speaker 2: my blog adventures with Leanne dot com, 112 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:10,450 Speaker 2: but 113 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,260 Speaker 2: if you are out in the desert and the sand 114 00:05:13,260 --> 00:05:16,650 Speaker 2: dunes like full, full on desserts, it's really amazing. And 115 00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:19,090 Speaker 2: some of the desserts are massive, like the ones in Namibia. 116 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:21,779 Speaker 2: And then you can actually see for each each dune 117 00:05:21,790 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: and in between each sand dune, these are parallel sand 118 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,390 Speaker 2: dunes are so big, they can actually see it on 119 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: a satellite map. We're talking about a kilometer or two. 120 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,460 Speaker 2: So you can kind of see one 121 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:31,450 Speaker 2: kilometer away 122 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:33,730 Speaker 2: if you're in the sand dunes in the Gobi, you're 123 00:05:33,730 --> 00:05:36,700 Speaker 2: literally seeing one hump away and then you're just doing 124 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:38,740 Speaker 2: that for hours and hours on end and you really 125 00:05:38,740 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: can't tell what's beyond. Except that, you know, 126 00:05:40,940 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 2: uh 50 m from from now, I've got another sand 127 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: dune to deal with. So even sand dunes are different. 128 00:05:47,089 --> 00:05:50,890 Speaker 2: Even deserts are different. If you're in the Atacama desert, 129 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: it is just a flat expense. And then you can 130 00:05:53,010 --> 00:05:55,339 Speaker 2: kind of see people from really far away. So the 131 00:05:55,339 --> 00:05:58,219 Speaker 2: first point is sand is different. Sand dunes are different. 132 00:05:58,220 --> 00:05:59,860 Speaker 2: The geography is different 133 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,420 Speaker 2: if you're in the amazon jungle, 40 plus degrees Celsius, 134 00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:04,950 Speaker 2: 90 over percent humidity. 135 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 2: Kind of sounds like Singapore, but even even warmer. 136 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: It's a it's a different type of heat, a different 137 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:12,860 Speaker 2: type of discomfort, 138 00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 2: but a different type of beauty as well. 139 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:18,260 Speaker 1: All right. The ability to appreciate 140 00:06:18,940 --> 00:06:23,030 Speaker 1: the diversity of our amazing world. Alright, so the journey 141 00:06:23,029 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: to go check, 142 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: journey to go Jack started off in the military 143 00:06:27,339 --> 00:06:29,260 Speaker 2: and then subsequently 144 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,210 Speaker 2: it became a, you know, left left after battalion command 145 00:06:33,210 --> 00:06:35,460 Speaker 2: and became a management consultant. 146 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:39,260 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, these two experiences kind of. 147 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,099 Speaker 2: I learned I learned a lot from them, but I 148 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:43,539 Speaker 2: always knew that I want to be back in an 149 00:06:43,550 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: operating role in a 150 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: in a commercial environment. 151 00:06:48,140 --> 00:06:50,930 Speaker 2: And that pretty pretty much brought me to go check 152 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: the trajectory has always been something china 153 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:59,420 Speaker 2: southeast asia along that vector. So, uh you know, go 154 00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: Jack spoke to me, I really, really, really liked what 155 00:07:02,130 --> 00:07:03,060 Speaker 2: what we were doing. 156 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,570 Speaker 2: And I said, you know, it really makes sense. So 157 00:07:05,570 --> 00:07:06,650 Speaker 2: that's how I joined. Go jek 158 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,710 Speaker 1: so leeanne, given the physically demanding pursuits of your past 159 00:07:11,710 --> 00:07:12,150 Speaker 1: life 160 00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: and I'm 161 00:07:12,730 --> 00:07:13,990 Speaker 1: here that you know, you're not 162 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: actually completely 163 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,420 Speaker 1: devoid of doing that. You're still squeezing in a couple 164 00:07:17,420 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: of trips or at least one trip a year. Um, 165 00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:22,429 Speaker 1: so you talked a little bit about your appreciation for 166 00:07:22,430 --> 00:07:25,380 Speaker 1: the geo diversity in the world or you know, the 167 00:07:25,380 --> 00:07:27,650 Speaker 1: meditative aspect and so on. So 168 00:07:27,740 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: what are the values and practices from your, you know, 169 00:07:31,890 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: physical world that you're bringing to the world of technical 170 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:35,060 Speaker 1: e commerce? 171 00:07:35,940 --> 00:07:36,860 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 172 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: All of it is a piece. Whether I mean you 173 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: come to the table with everything that you are and 174 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,590 Speaker 2: you can kind of pull out pieces. But I say 175 00:07:48,590 --> 00:07:50,970 Speaker 2: you come to the table with everything that you are 176 00:07:50,970 --> 00:07:53,030 Speaker 2: that has shaped you to be the person that you are. 177 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,460 Speaker 2: I'll probably try to 178 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:55,890 Speaker 2: pull out of fuel 179 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,350 Speaker 2: as much as you can. Ascribe to single instances. 180 00:07:59,740 --> 00:08:02,580 Speaker 2: The military is very much about leadership. But again, the 181 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:05,590 Speaker 2: leadership in the military is very different at different levels. 182 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: If you're a young 183 00:08:08,140 --> 00:08:10,900 Speaker 2: platoon commander in the special forces, it's about direct leadership. 184 00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: It is about looking your men and men and for 185 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: me it's just men by looking at men in the eyes, 186 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:17,260 Speaker 2: being the first to jump out of the plane, 187 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,900 Speaker 2: leading the run from the front as you move up 188 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:22,700 Speaker 2: the ranks, then you start being a leader of leaders 189 00:08:22,710 --> 00:08:25,090 Speaker 2: and even though you you can have direct line of 190 00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:28,470 Speaker 2: sight of the people that you lied but you primarily 191 00:08:28,470 --> 00:08:31,370 Speaker 2: interact with managing your commanders and making sure that you 192 00:08:31,370 --> 00:08:33,359 Speaker 2: provide very good intent, very good direction 193 00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:35,870 Speaker 2: and then when you move even up further then you 194 00:08:35,870 --> 00:08:37,910 Speaker 2: don't even have line of sight with the with the 195 00:08:37,910 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: people that you lied and it's very much around organizational 196 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: change and that I think transitions or segments very well 197 00:08:44,130 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: into my time as a consultant, 198 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,020 Speaker 2: I would say a large part of my projects involved 199 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:51,460 Speaker 2: a significant proportion of organizational change 200 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: and you know that 201 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:54,059 Speaker 2: but 202 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,550 Speaker 2: you know that the speed of ground execution is actually 203 00:08:57,550 --> 00:09:00,020 Speaker 2: much slower. I can draw a power point and move 204 00:09:00,020 --> 00:09:01,550 Speaker 2: an Akhtar around in, 205 00:09:02,340 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: you know, in in an hour. 206 00:09:04,540 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 2: But for that to actually flow through the system and 207 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:12,510 Speaker 2: for the ramifications of the skills capabilities, raising the teams. 208 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:16,700 Speaker 2: I mean those time cycles and the time cycles of years, months, months, 209 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:20,230 Speaker 2: if not years. So let's say skills things I learned right, 210 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: what does leadership mean at the personal level, what does 211 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: leadership mean at 212 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,860 Speaker 2: organizational level or leading through leaders? 213 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:28,059 Speaker 2: So that's really from 214 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,359 Speaker 2: both military and Mckinsey. 215 00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:33,660 Speaker 2: Uh as a management consultant, I think the second one 216 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 2: is learning 217 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: or just being very, very clear what your objective is 218 00:09:38,250 --> 00:09:42,980 Speaker 2: asking the right questions and creating an environment where the people, 219 00:09:42,980 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: the team and yourself can come up with the right answers. 220 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:49,260 Speaker 2: So probably just leave with these these two things or 221 00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 2: maybe a third one 222 00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:52,650 Speaker 2: is and always being being very calm. 223 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: Um 224 00:09:54,940 --> 00:09:58,260 Speaker 2: frequently I'm asked you know your greater strength and when 225 00:09:58,260 --> 00:10:00,350 Speaker 2: I was younger be or how smart I am, how 226 00:10:00,350 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: strong I am, how fit I am, how aggressive I am, 227 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,140 Speaker 2: how much I get things done now. I just say 228 00:10:05,140 --> 00:10:09,890 Speaker 2: that column is contagious when you come, you deescalate the 229 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: emotions when you're calm, you de escalate the anxiety 230 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,059 Speaker 2: and then everyone can come to a better solution. So 231 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: right now 232 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: com is probably something that I take from 233 00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:23,250 Speaker 2: the different things that I've done in my life. 234 00:10:23,740 --> 00:10:26,570 Speaker 1: That's great. Earlier today I was listening to somebody say 235 00:10:26,570 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: that you know things are never really as good as 236 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,150 Speaker 1: as they seem and there never really as bad as 237 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: they seem and I think that's gonna erupt into your 238 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,860 Speaker 1: point that don't react too much to what's happening right now. 239 00:10:35,860 --> 00:10:39,490 Speaker 1: This too will pass whether it's good or bad. Um 240 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:42,130 Speaker 1: leon I'm gonna ask you the question that I normally 241 00:10:42,130 --> 00:10:44,750 Speaker 1: start my podcast with these days, which is how did 242 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: you and your company deal with the pandemic? 243 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:48,260 Speaker 1: Good. 244 00:10:48,940 --> 00:10:50,860 Speaker 2: Well uh 245 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,939 Speaker 2: you know everyone talks about pandemic and pandemic scarring and 246 00:10:54,950 --> 00:10:58,100 Speaker 2: hopefully I won't even say anything about what the future 247 00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: looks like. You're not not not using sit 248 00:11:00,940 --> 00:11:03,859 Speaker 2: probably a friend of uh sort of macro observation and 249 00:11:03,860 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: then some individual things that we did 250 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,150 Speaker 2: micro observation was this early on. People talked about different 251 00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: kinds of recovery, L shaped, K shaped or you know, 252 00:11:12,410 --> 00:11:16,170 Speaker 2: whatever particular alphabet that you have in mind. But it 253 00:11:16,170 --> 00:11:16,750 Speaker 2: is true 254 00:11:17,140 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: there are people who have your frontline staff is still 255 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: staying on the front line 256 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,929 Speaker 2: and there are people, so there are people where you 257 00:11:23,929 --> 00:11:25,660 Speaker 2: could do your work virtually, but it's still an hour 258 00:11:25,660 --> 00:11:26,059 Speaker 2: of work 259 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,829 Speaker 2: more or less. So the teachers, teachers during the period 260 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,150 Speaker 2: spent an hour 261 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,970 Speaker 2: on a zoom classroom rather than an hour in the classroom. 262 00:11:33,970 --> 00:11:35,190 Speaker 2: And I know there's a lot more back end in 263 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:38,010 Speaker 2: front of work but roughly work is still in our 264 00:11:38,010 --> 00:11:39,660 Speaker 2: except you're delivering it virtually 265 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,420 Speaker 2: there were some people where the work evaporated these were 266 00:11:43,429 --> 00:11:46,690 Speaker 2: you're in early periods whether it's F and B. Whether 267 00:11:46,690 --> 00:11:52,060 Speaker 2: anything frontline where the demand disappeared such as marketing events. 268 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,819 Speaker 2: And unfortunately many of these roles have to Reroll I'd 269 00:11:55,820 --> 00:12:00,059 Speaker 2: say for people in a manageable capacity or managerial roles, 270 00:12:00,070 --> 00:12:02,630 Speaker 2: the work is not proportional to volume. The work is 271 00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:06,750 Speaker 2: proportional to change. So every 20% down 272 00:12:07,140 --> 00:12:11,929 Speaker 2: In terms of volume of traffic volumes meant a significant 273 00:12:11,929 --> 00:12:15,569 Speaker 2: business decision had to make and every 20% recovery was 274 00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:18,059 Speaker 2: again a significant business decision that I had to make. 275 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: And so it's not as if, I mean obviously more 276 00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:23,250 Speaker 2: more traffic better than less but it has changed. That 277 00:12:23,250 --> 00:12:23,750 Speaker 2: actually 278 00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:26,260 Speaker 2: causes a lot of the work. So 279 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,700 Speaker 2: um, I'd say not so much for go jek, but 280 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:29,850 Speaker 2: for myself personally, I felt 281 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,750 Speaker 2: the rapidly changing conditions just meant that we collectively had 282 00:12:34,750 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: to just 283 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:37,660 Speaker 2: cheap on top of it, 284 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,820 Speaker 2: what does it mean for go jek as a business as, 285 00:12:40,820 --> 00:12:42,550 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, if you look at my background, 286 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: this is a driver partner 287 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 2: and we are ultimately here to were ultimately here to 288 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,010 Speaker 2: serve the customers to consumers through the on demand services 289 00:12:54,020 --> 00:12:56,410 Speaker 2: and within the broader group as e commerce and finance 290 00:12:56,410 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 2: as well. But 291 00:12:57,340 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 2: bingo jacket is about delivering food, delivering people, moving the 292 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: parcels around 293 00:13:01,940 --> 00:13:04,250 Speaker 2: um, and that is done by the driver partners, it 294 00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: is fulfilled by the driver partners and the driver partners 295 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,810 Speaker 2: are the ones who found it very difficult to uh, make, 296 00:13:11,809 --> 00:13:14,900 Speaker 2: make an earnings during that period. So whether it is 297 00:13:14,910 --> 00:13:18,950 Speaker 2: supplementary supplementary, um, you know, 298 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,420 Speaker 2: money that we offered to them, whether it was taking 299 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:25,099 Speaker 2: away the commission's that go check, charged or even more 300 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:28,970 Speaker 2: recently we added on a fuel surcharge so that they 301 00:13:28,970 --> 00:13:31,980 Speaker 2: could help defray the cost of rising fuel, which is uh, 302 00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:35,590 Speaker 2: one of the largest operating expenses. We've done everything that 303 00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:38,490 Speaker 2: we could to support the driver partners so that they 304 00:13:38,490 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: could say sustainable 305 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: because ultimately they are the bedrock on which our business 306 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:44,650 Speaker 2: is operates on. 307 00:13:46,340 --> 00:13:50,060 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this driver partner relationship a little bit, 308 00:13:50,070 --> 00:13:51,510 Speaker 1: I have, you know 309 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,449 Speaker 2: seen 310 00:13:52,460 --> 00:13:57,300 Speaker 1: stories and case studies around Uber and other large, you know, 311 00:13:57,309 --> 00:14:00,590 Speaker 1: driving partnership platforms and 312 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,260 Speaker 2: each 313 00:14:01,260 --> 00:14:03,820 Speaker 1: founder seems to have, you know, slightly different take on 314 00:14:03,820 --> 00:14:06,650 Speaker 1: this relationship between the company and the driver partners 315 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: give us a sense of the responsibility and the, 316 00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: I don't know the, 317 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: the burden sharing that that transpires when you have a 318 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:18,849 Speaker 1: model like this. 319 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 320 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: Project started in Indonesia. The name itself is a motorcycle 321 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: taxi 322 00:14:27,940 --> 00:14:29,460 Speaker 2: and there was a fragmented 323 00:14:29,940 --> 00:14:34,290 Speaker 2: service that at slightly lower levels of reliability, people were 324 00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: uncertain about what they could get 325 00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: and uh, and so that's how we start to go 326 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,350 Speaker 2: check at the, at the point in time and 327 00:14:42,140 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: The social cause and the social mission has been very 328 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,150 Speaker 2: apparent from, from day one. 329 00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:51,420 Speaker 2: Uh, there are many stories of the merchants that have 330 00:14:51,420 --> 00:14:55,370 Speaker 2: been enabled on go check uh, even through the pandemic 331 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,550 Speaker 2: to be able to provide a livelihood for their families. 332 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,060 Speaker 2: Similar similarly for the driver partners 333 00:15:01,540 --> 00:15:06,310 Speaker 2: who have, I think, I think the statistic is that 334 00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:11,190 Speaker 2: accounts for 12% of Indonesia's GDP now transacted through the 335 00:15:11,190 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: on demand services that go check offers. I may be 336 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: wrong the number, but I think it's roughly in that ballpark. 337 00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:19,660 Speaker 2: So it is a massive, 338 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,700 Speaker 2: it is important. It's massively important to the broader economy 339 00:15:23,710 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: to the consumers that is unlocked, but even more so 340 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,300 Speaker 2: for the merchants and the driver partners that are on 341 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,830 Speaker 2: the platform and whether it's in Vietnam or even in Singapore, 342 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,660 Speaker 2: the social costs, the social impact 343 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:38,990 Speaker 2: uh, and the social impact because of the commercial impact. 344 00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:40,860 Speaker 2: If you don't scale and you don't have a big 345 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:41,860 Speaker 2: commercial impact, then 346 00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:44,700 Speaker 2: you know, the social impact also may not be quite 347 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:47,270 Speaker 2: as large. So I think because of the commercial impact, 348 00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: we never forget the social aspect to it as well. 349 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,730 Speaker 1: I'll give you a very, very specific scenario. This happened 350 00:15:54,730 --> 00:15:57,100 Speaker 1: to me yesterday actually I was talking to a driver 351 00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: and he said that he used to work for a 352 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:05,450 Speaker 1: different right hailing platform and the right that he had 353 00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:08,270 Speaker 1: somebody vomited in the car and he had a big 354 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,460 Speaker 1: cleaning bill and the right healing 355 00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:13,460 Speaker 1: Company basically told him that that was his problem other 356 00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:15,770 Speaker 1: than like a $30, you know, flat fee they give 357 00:16:15,770 --> 00:16:19,380 Speaker 1: for cleaning, whereas his liability was much larger. So 358 00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:20,580 Speaker 2: that incident 359 00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:23,290 Speaker 1: alone where the company may have had a set of practice, 360 00:16:23,290 --> 00:16:26,090 Speaker 1: which from the company's perspective was good practice. But from 361 00:16:26,090 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: this driver who had experienced a tail risk if you 362 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,310 Speaker 1: will was that, you know, he was sort of, you know, 363 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,890 Speaker 1: let down by the company and he basically stopped working 364 00:16:34,890 --> 00:16:36,740 Speaker 1: for that because you know, there are other companies to 365 00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:38,850 Speaker 1: work for and therefore he just moved on from that platform. 366 00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:41,550 Speaker 1: But that was all it took that one incident. Um, 367 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,740 Speaker 1: so do you find situations like this often that this 368 00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: is a very sensitive volatile group of driver partners and 369 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: you have to be extremely careful in dealing with them? 370 00:16:53,540 --> 00:16:56,810 Speaker 2: I would say it's not that the request unreasonable, but 371 00:16:56,820 --> 00:16:58,270 Speaker 2: it is uh, 372 00:16:59,740 --> 00:17:01,780 Speaker 2: it is the value of having competition. There's the value 373 00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:05,950 Speaker 2: of having alternatives and the value of having choices. And 374 00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:09,609 Speaker 2: many people talk about ride hailing being a commodity product, 375 00:17:09,619 --> 00:17:11,870 Speaker 2: which in a sense it might be, but there is 376 00:17:11,869 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: great value to the market and to the market, meaning 377 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: both to the customers as well. As the driver said, 378 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,550 Speaker 2: there is choice. 379 00:17:17,940 --> 00:17:20,060 Speaker 2: For instance, you have a monopoly 380 00:17:20,540 --> 00:17:21,460 Speaker 2: and I'm not, I'm not 381 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,490 Speaker 2: talking about any specific company, but in all examples, you 382 00:17:26,490 --> 00:17:29,750 Speaker 2: see when you have a monopoly, then you just become 383 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: less sensitive to market signals. You become less sensitive to 384 00:17:33,290 --> 00:17:37,470 Speaker 2: competition signals. You try a little bit less hard if 385 00:17:37,470 --> 00:17:40,550 Speaker 2: you will. And that's true of any monopoly. So, uh, 386 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,770 Speaker 2: we, and, and you know, we operate in the open 387 00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:44,170 Speaker 2: and contestant marketplace 388 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:46,860 Speaker 2: and that is one of the values of just having 389 00:17:46,859 --> 00:17:48,859 Speaker 2: competitors keep you on your toes 390 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: as a general principle. 391 00:17:50,940 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: And then more specifically, we always try our best to 392 00:17:54,140 --> 00:17:56,810 Speaker 2: um, take care of forever partners. We can't manage all 393 00:17:56,810 --> 00:18:00,350 Speaker 2: tail and risk. Uh, I mean you're an economist. So, uh, 394 00:18:01,340 --> 00:18:02,170 Speaker 2: there's a, 395 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,619 Speaker 2: on the other hand, on the other hand, there may 396 00:18:04,619 --> 00:18:08,580 Speaker 2: be real intentions. Uh, we try to support as best 397 00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:11,060 Speaker 2: as we can and we definitely do listen to 398 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,050 Speaker 2: the concerns of every single driver partner. 399 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:15,980 Speaker 2: The answer may not be yes, but at least I 400 00:18:15,980 --> 00:18:18,540 Speaker 2: guarantee that you'll, you'll have a, you have a year 401 00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:21,580 Speaker 2: that does listen to you and does its best to 402 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:25,430 Speaker 2: manage your specific situation and if the specific situation keeps 403 00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:28,369 Speaker 2: popping up categorically then it's something that we'll try to 404 00:18:28,369 --> 00:18:29,460 Speaker 2: address as a system. 405 00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the absolute right way of approaching it. 406 00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:36,570 Speaker 1: The industry as a rejoinder to what you just said 407 00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:39,270 Speaker 1: the driver also his key complaint was that you know, 408 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,260 Speaker 1: it took him a very long time to get hurt 409 00:18:41,740 --> 00:18:44,250 Speaker 1: and I think you know from your project can see 410 00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: that that is a issue that you of course are 411 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,780 Speaker 1: keen to address on a forceful, forceful manner. Um you 412 00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:53,420 Speaker 1: have access to very good quality, high frequency data. You 413 00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:56,869 Speaker 1: probably know exactly how many rider ships took place yesterday 414 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,169 Speaker 1: in Singapore. 415 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,460 Speaker 1: What's your sense of the economic recovery and ridership coming back? 416 00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:06,060 Speaker 2: Um 417 00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 2: a lot of it, well it's primarily 418 00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 2: macro related. The rules and regulations are opening up. 419 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,230 Speaker 2: One interesting nugget that we saw was you would think 420 00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: that everyone has gotten used to trace together by now 421 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: but one interesting nugget we saw was that 422 00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:22,850 Speaker 2: when trees together 423 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,950 Speaker 2: seize um 424 00:19:25,740 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: to sort of be mandatory at the entry points of 425 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,770 Speaker 2: all the malls, mall destination trips was up significantly yesterday. 426 00:19:34,140 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 2: So you think that things are priced in but actually 427 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,110 Speaker 2: there is still, there is still friction. So it was, 428 00:19:39,109 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: it was, it was actually, I'm not sure whether it 429 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,090 Speaker 2: was one of, I'll look at it today as well whether, 430 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:46,220 Speaker 2: so anyway, it might be just as spurious anecdote, but 431 00:19:46,220 --> 00:19:47,850 Speaker 2: that was, that was kind of interesting. 432 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,540 Speaker 2: Obviously ridership is growing up, you know, people are circulating, 433 00:19:51,540 --> 00:19:53,060 Speaker 2: we can all see with our eyes and our own 434 00:19:53,060 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: experiences and, 435 00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:57,550 Speaker 2: and, and going out there domestically at least within Singapore 436 00:19:57,940 --> 00:19:59,770 Speaker 2: things are looking very positive. 437 00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:02,139 Speaker 1: Good to know now of 438 00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:02,670 Speaker 2: course 439 00:20:03,140 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: speaking 440 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,169 Speaker 1: of macro, I mean we are at a 441 00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:10,310 Speaker 1: juncture where it is becoming a bit uncomfortable, fuel prices 442 00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:11,270 Speaker 1: are soaring, 443 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,110 Speaker 1: food prices are picking up and of course interest rates 444 00:20:14,109 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: are going up. Um, so, so this sort of, you 445 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,130 Speaker 1: know food fuel inflation, interest rates going up. How do 446 00:20:21,130 --> 00:20:25,050 Speaker 1: you see it affecting both your, you know 447 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,659 Speaker 1: customers as well as your own business strategy. 448 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,939 Speaker 2: Yeah. 449 00:20:30,540 --> 00:20:31,170 Speaker 2: Um, 450 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 2: transport as a transport as a, as a bucket, 451 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: transport as a cost bucket, you know, the, 452 00:20:41,140 --> 00:20:43,950 Speaker 2: for for most commuters. I mean the good thing about 453 00:20:43,950 --> 00:20:47,890 Speaker 2: Singapore actually, I always say this, the biggest competitor that 454 00:20:47,890 --> 00:20:51,900 Speaker 2: we have is not um, it's not, it's not another 455 00:20:51,910 --> 00:20:55,150 Speaker 2: point to point operators. It is the fact that Singapore 456 00:20:55,150 --> 00:20:55,660 Speaker 2: has a 457 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 2: fantastically well resourced public transport infrastructure. 458 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,850 Speaker 2: MRT is great. Our busses are great. 459 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,340 Speaker 2: Uh, but there's obviously still a strong need for point 460 00:21:06,340 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 2: to point whether it's for convenience, whether it's for rain, 461 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 2: whether you have some 462 00:21:09,940 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 2: mobility issues you're going to somewhere a little bit less accessible. 463 00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:16,590 Speaker 2: I mean there are many reasons why you still want 464 00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:17,450 Speaker 2: to do point to point 465 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,709 Speaker 2: uh but it is also true that costs have risen 466 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,189 Speaker 2: fuel prices. We've talked about with what's happening in europe 467 00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:23,770 Speaker 2: at the moment 468 00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 2: and so we launched a 469 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:31,780 Speaker 2: uh temporary surcharge uh which we passed through to the 470 00:21:31,780 --> 00:21:34,710 Speaker 2: drivers primarily to defray the cost of fuel and this 471 00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:37,889 Speaker 2: isn't something new it's been done in the industry before. 472 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:41,930 Speaker 2: Um Hopefully it is something that will be corrective. The 473 00:21:41,930 --> 00:21:42,659 Speaker 2: point is 474 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: will inflation be permanently high. Will prices be permanently high 475 00:21:47,050 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: if they won't then you just take temporary measures to 476 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,750 Speaker 2: address them. If they're gonna be structurally high then you 477 00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:56,850 Speaker 2: need steady more permanent solutions to address them. So temporary 478 00:21:56,850 --> 00:22:00,460 Speaker 2: cells for temporary pains, study more permanent solutions for more 479 00:22:00,460 --> 00:22:01,350 Speaker 2: permanent pains 480 00:22:01,540 --> 00:22:04,060 Speaker 2: and I think what we're seeing in terms of 481 00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:07,550 Speaker 2: a rising CPI I hopefully 482 00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:10,060 Speaker 2: is um is temporary 483 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,140 Speaker 2: things about housing now that's that's outside my remit. So 484 00:22:13,150 --> 00:22:15,500 Speaker 2: you might have to speak to other people who have 485 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: a little bit more of real estate meant 486 00:22:17,540 --> 00:22:19,710 Speaker 2: about what the price of a G. C. B. Is 487 00:22:19,710 --> 00:22:22,460 Speaker 2: in Singapore but at least when it comes to transport 488 00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 2: uh we think that this will this will pass. 489 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,410 Speaker 1: Yeah I mean I'd like to think that especially with 490 00:22:28,410 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: respect to fuel prices already the market is a bit 491 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,030 Speaker 1: nervous about the outlook with respective growth which then has 492 00:22:36,030 --> 00:22:38,450 Speaker 1: a negative impact on fuel prices And you know, we're 493 00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: having this discussion in the middle of april, We have 494 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,060 Speaker 1: seen signs of fuel price using in the last week 495 00:22:44,060 --> 00:22:44,670 Speaker 1: or so. 496 00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:46,429 Speaker 1: Not a good backdrop in the sense that it is 497 00:22:46,430 --> 00:22:48,060 Speaker 1: in the context of slowing growth, 498 00:22:48,340 --> 00:22:52,149 Speaker 1: but at least that specific pain fuel seems to be 499 00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:54,500 Speaker 1: one of those very sensitive things, You know, anybody who 500 00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: is exposed to the transportation world, which is most of 501 00:22:57,050 --> 00:22:57,850 Speaker 2: everyone 502 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,710 Speaker 1: immediately reacts to that, you know, 10 cent 20 cent 503 00:23:00,710 --> 00:23:02,790 Speaker 1: rise in per liter fuel prices. And it seems to 504 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: have a disproportionate impact on people's sense of well being. 505 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:09,050 Speaker 1: So the sooner it abates the better action for all 506 00:23:09,050 --> 00:23:11,070 Speaker 1: of us. I want to switch 507 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:14,020 Speaker 2: just just, just just to jump on that uh the 508 00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:16,630 Speaker 2: to the, you know, I wasn't a very good student, 509 00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 2: but one of the things I did learn in the 510 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,770 Speaker 2: economics class was the two prices that most matter in 511 00:23:21,770 --> 00:23:23,659 Speaker 2: the world are the two most upstream ones, which is 512 00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:25,350 Speaker 2: the price of money, which is your interest rates 513 00:23:25,540 --> 00:23:26,460 Speaker 2: and the price of fuel, 514 00:23:26,540 --> 00:23:31,220 Speaker 2: which powers everything else in our modern, industrialized uh sort 515 00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:34,109 Speaker 2: of economy. And so, I mean understandably, these are the 516 00:23:34,109 --> 00:23:35,170 Speaker 2: two things which 517 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,859 Speaker 2: people like yourself who look over it every single day. 518 00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 2: I mean that's that's that's why we 519 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,460 Speaker 2: I mean, I was actually just reading the 520 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,970 Speaker 2: biography of uh Jeremy Heywood and he spent a lot 521 00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:50,830 Speaker 2: of time in the british Ministry of Finance and it 522 00:23:50,830 --> 00:23:54,859 Speaker 2: was all about interest rates and interest rate mechanisms and the, 523 00:23:54,869 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: you know, european monetary union, fascinating history, which can be 524 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,260 Speaker 2: a little bit dry, but these are the things that 525 00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 2: move our economy and shape where the, 526 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,540 Speaker 2: it's a single number is one of the single numbers 527 00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:07,670 Speaker 2: that matters the most. 528 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, 529 00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:11,900 Speaker 1: I'll ask you later about strategy to move away from 530 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,730 Speaker 1: fuel or fossil fuel to other things, but let's reserve 531 00:24:14,730 --> 00:24:17,660 Speaker 1: that for a little later. Um, I saw recently in 532 00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: this article about gore tex decision to give I. P. O. 533 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: Shares to all 600,000 fewer drivers. Can you explain to 534 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:25,300 Speaker 1: me 535 00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 2: the thinking 536 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:27,270 Speaker 1: behind that? 537 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,910 Speaker 2: I think it's a very simple one. 538 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,350 Speaker 2: driver partners really make, go check what it is and 539 00:24:34,350 --> 00:24:36,730 Speaker 2: we wanted to make every driver partner and owner in, 540 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:39,030 Speaker 2: go check that they will be able to say, this 541 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: is my company, this is our company, 542 00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:45,670 Speaker 2: uh and its future is my future. And that was 543 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,859 Speaker 2: really this very simple thinking behind 544 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,620 Speaker 2: granting shares to all the driver partners that are still 545 00:24:51,619 --> 00:24:55,270 Speaker 2: active on our platform and the ones who came in earlier, 546 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: we actually had a different tier of award for them. 547 00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: Simple thinking behind it. Every driver partner is an owner 548 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:03,670 Speaker 2: in Georgia. 549 00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:06,390 Speaker 1: Just one more integrated question. 550 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: You know, most of your drivers, I'm assuming don't have 551 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,010 Speaker 1: a brokerage account or have not dealt with stocks before. 552 00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:16,330 Speaker 1: So just from a financial infrastructure perspective, was that a 553 00:25:16,330 --> 00:25:18,250 Speaker 1: very challenging thing to accomplish, 554 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: there's a lot of education and I mean, this is 555 00:25:21,850 --> 00:25:25,850 Speaker 2: really the social responsibility there, kojak hairs as a move 556 00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:29,270 Speaker 2: like that, which is well intentioned, also has to be um, 557 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,860 Speaker 2: also has to be 558 00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:35,030 Speaker 2: executed and it has to land well, right? So it's 559 00:25:35,030 --> 00:25:37,850 Speaker 2: a land well in terms of education 560 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: investing in stocks, obviously, I mean, we have so much 561 00:25:43,570 --> 00:25:45,060 Speaker 2: user caution 562 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:49,500 Speaker 2: advertising rules in Singapore, similarly, we don't, we don't want 563 00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: people to be reckless with it. So there is a 564 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,070 Speaker 2: lot of education around the nature of equity, the nature 565 00:25:57,070 --> 00:26:00,030 Speaker 2: of stocks, I mean, overall is very, very well received, 566 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,770 Speaker 2: but there's also a lot of education 567 00:26:01,940 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: in terms of how to monetize this, how to open 568 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 2: a brokerage accountants and so on so forth. 569 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 2: But I think we've done that outreach, you know very well. 570 00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:13,850 Speaker 1: That's, that's fantastic. I mean, in my day to day dealings, 571 00:26:13,850 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: I see so much gap in the field of financial literacy. 572 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,550 Speaker 1: So for a large company like yours 573 00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: to push that I think is really commendable effort. 574 00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:25,929 Speaker 1: Um actually, 575 00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:28,900 Speaker 2: on the, on the, on that 0.1 of the reasons 576 00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:31,449 Speaker 2: why we actually rolled out go pay and had a 577 00:26:31,450 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 2: wallet was, 578 00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 2: this is a well known statistic 579 00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: for anyone in the financial space of Fintech space in 580 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: Southeast asia, but 581 00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 2: Indonesia, 582 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 2: large amounts of unbanked, right? The majority are unbanked and 583 00:26:45,570 --> 00:26:49,230 Speaker 2: so when you are taking cash, cash transactions of this 584 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,909 Speaker 2: high high high friction no ability to put your cash anywhere. 585 00:26:52,910 --> 00:26:55,290 Speaker 2: And with that with the advent of go pay for 586 00:26:55,290 --> 00:26:57,969 Speaker 2: the first time, they actually have a digital store of 587 00:26:57,970 --> 00:27:00,669 Speaker 2: money that that the drivers produce. 588 00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:03,140 Speaker 2: And they could obviously use that subsequently to pay for 589 00:27:03,140 --> 00:27:04,460 Speaker 2: the different transactions without 590 00:27:04,940 --> 00:27:06,890 Speaker 2: All the old friction of money. Again, a well known 591 00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:09,930 Speaker 2: story by the by the 2020s. But if you think 592 00:27:09,930 --> 00:27:13,460 Speaker 2: of this 57 years ago really transformational 593 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:14,770 Speaker 2: and this is just 594 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,670 Speaker 2: maybe another 595 00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:21,850 Speaker 2: another leg or another step in that journey of digital finance. 596 00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:24,170 Speaker 1: Absolutely great stuff. 597 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,530 Speaker 1: Now we not only have this uncomfortable macro backdrop of 598 00:27:29,530 --> 00:27:32,030 Speaker 1: you know high rates and inflation and war and all 599 00:27:32,030 --> 00:27:34,790 Speaker 1: that kinda stuff. Um We are also seeing at least 600 00:27:34,790 --> 00:27:38,020 Speaker 1: in the U. S. But also in china. Um major 601 00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: correction in the tech space companies have lost hundreds of 602 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,250 Speaker 1: billions of dollars worth of values just like in the 603 00:27:44,250 --> 00:27:44,670 Speaker 1: span of 604 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,580 Speaker 1: 34 months netflix being the latest one. Um So how 605 00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:52,790 Speaker 1: is that turmoil that storm that's taking place in the 606 00:27:52,790 --> 00:27:56,649 Speaker 1: listed equity space? Is that how is that affecting the 607 00:27:56,660 --> 00:27:57,550 Speaker 1: local startup scene 608 00:27:59,940 --> 00:28:00,770 Speaker 2: uh 609 00:28:05,140 --> 00:28:07,959 Speaker 2: happens in a maybe I'll take a few different segments, 610 00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:09,169 Speaker 2: friends said to me 611 00:28:09,660 --> 00:28:11,860 Speaker 2: and maybe this is also the internal view that we 612 00:28:11,859 --> 00:28:12,270 Speaker 2: have 613 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: uh we're often asked this is not a good time 614 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 2: to list. Why why is why is go to the 615 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,670 Speaker 2: parents of our parent company, why are we listening now 616 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: when 617 00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:24,689 Speaker 2: you know all the conditions and the situations that you 618 00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 2: mentioned are happening 619 00:28:26,540 --> 00:28:29,859 Speaker 2: and and the truth is um I think it was 620 00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:32,060 Speaker 2: who said that in the short run 621 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 2: it's the stock market is a popularity machine or popularity contest. 622 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: And in the long run it's a weighing machine. 623 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 2: And we are looking at the long run game. 624 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: Um, somebody, another friend said if you started the law, 625 00:28:44,290 --> 00:28:46,740 Speaker 2: actually it's a great it's a great place. If you 626 00:28:46,750 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: if you list at a high, 627 00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:50,380 Speaker 2: uh this is not something that we're doing for a day, 628 00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 2: two days. This is not a fundraising round. I. P. O. 629 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,170 Speaker 2: Is not a fundraising round. It is something that you 630 00:28:56,170 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: do in perpetuity. 631 00:28:57,740 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 2: Ah and so you will need to have good performance 632 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 2: and good growth 633 00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:02,260 Speaker 2: in perpetually. 634 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,450 Speaker 2: From their perspective, the specific timing at which you 635 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,170 Speaker 2: I. P. O. Is not maybe not so relevant. 636 00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:12,860 Speaker 2: and if you had to pick one may be coming 637 00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 2: in at 638 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,550 Speaker 2: at the height of 639 00:29:16,940 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: of the cycle may not be quite as beneficial in 640 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,470 Speaker 2: the long run as coming in at a different part 641 00:29:23,470 --> 00:29:24,170 Speaker 2: of the cycle. 642 00:29:24,540 --> 00:29:26,850 Speaker 2: So that's maybe from a timing perspective. But the point 643 00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:27,170 Speaker 2: is 644 00:29:28,340 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 2: You can't necessarily time time these things, you don't know 645 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: what six months from now or 12 months from now 646 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:33,950 Speaker 2: will happen. 647 00:29:34,540 --> 00:29:36,780 Speaker 2: You know, our company was ready. So that's why we 648 00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: chose to do. So that's from a listing perspective for 649 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,460 Speaker 2: really early stage startups. 650 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: Um, maybe it would be different from a sort of 651 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,450 Speaker 2: fundraising perspective, 652 00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:51,100 Speaker 2: but if you have good ideas, I'll switch method first 653 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:53,490 Speaker 2: a little bit. Think of, think of running Singapore is 654 00:29:53,490 --> 00:29:56,930 Speaker 2: actually a really bad place to, to, to do certain 655 00:29:56,940 --> 00:30:00,310 Speaker 2: events because it's kind of warm. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, 656 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: it's humid, 657 00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:02,450 Speaker 2: but 658 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,190 Speaker 2: it is the same for every single competitor. Everyone out 659 00:30:06,190 --> 00:30:09,650 Speaker 2: on the lanes, everyone out on the tracks is experiencing 660 00:30:09,650 --> 00:30:12,830 Speaker 2: the same heat, same temperature, same rain, same humidity that 661 00:30:12,830 --> 00:30:13,460 Speaker 2: you are doing. 662 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,830 Speaker 2: And if you're not trying to compare yourself with companies 663 00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: that came 10, 15 years before in a different environment, 664 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,940 Speaker 2: but you're comparing yourself to the market as it is 665 00:30:21,940 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: now and the market is Fedex, internal prevailing conditions are fair, 666 00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:28,550 Speaker 2: this is this, your all all out on the running 667 00:30:28,550 --> 00:30:31,770 Speaker 2: tracks on the, on the lanes at the same time. 668 00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 2: So from that perspective, I'd say you can compare, you 669 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,090 Speaker 2: can wish or you can wish, but unless you're gonna 670 00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:39,060 Speaker 2: tell us entrepreneur 671 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,850 Speaker 2: Wait three years. I mean, 672 00:30:41,340 --> 00:30:43,900 Speaker 2: if the entrepreneur really believes in his company, he's not 673 00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,610 Speaker 2: going to wait three years, he will do it now 674 00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:47,550 Speaker 2: because his idea is ready now. 675 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,350 Speaker 2: Could you tell him to do it three years ago? 676 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:51,650 Speaker 2: Of course? Sure. But unless it's a time machine that's 677 00:30:51,650 --> 00:30:56,550 Speaker 2: also not a readily available or a realistic option. And 678 00:30:56,550 --> 00:30:59,870 Speaker 2: so what matters much more than the external timing is 679 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,990 Speaker 2: the power of conviction, the internal belief, the internal direction 680 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,270 Speaker 2: and uh, 681 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,190 Speaker 2: yeah, I don't think anyone is going to shape broad 682 00:31:08,190 --> 00:31:10,050 Speaker 2: strategy around. 683 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 2: I mean, you've got some flax, three months, six months, 684 00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:15,710 Speaker 2: but you're not going to say, wait a year, wait 685 00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 2: two years, wait three years to have more certainty. No 686 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,170 Speaker 2: one's going to do that. 687 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: I remember before the.com bubble birth, uh, you know, fundraising 688 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,570 Speaker 1: was so easy. And the questions that were asked were 689 00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:34,660 Speaker 1: almost ridiculously, you know, easy to answer. And then after 690 00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:37,140 Speaker 1: that in 2002 onwards, you know, the tech companies that 691 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:37,860 Speaker 1: came to the market, 692 00:31:38,140 --> 00:31:40,490 Speaker 1: they had to be subject much tougher grilling from their 693 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:41,350 Speaker 1: investors 694 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,700 Speaker 1: and of course they have to start with, 695 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:43,510 Speaker 2: you know, much 696 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,709 Speaker 1: tougher funding environment. Um, are you seeing a parallel to that, 697 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,890 Speaker 1: that the questions that were asked a couple of years 698 00:31:49,890 --> 00:31:51,850 Speaker 1: ago versus the questions that are asked now? 699 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: Different order of difficulty? 700 00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: I think they're the same questions. I mean, this is 701 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,900 Speaker 2: more maybe I'd like to turn the question around to you. 702 00:32:00,910 --> 00:32:01,950 Speaker 2: If you think of, 703 00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:03,959 Speaker 2: if you think of investors yet, 704 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,530 Speaker 2: they are the same questions. The the decision point is 705 00:32:08,540 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: with the answers that are given, what do you say 706 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,790 Speaker 2: yes to now versus what you say yes to ask 707 00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:15,450 Speaker 2: time and what you say yes to in the future, 708 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,450 Speaker 2: they are the same questions. I won't say there are 709 00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:20,330 Speaker 2: any more difficult, you know, nobody's nobody's giving us a 710 00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: free pass in in any way, but it is, it 711 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,770 Speaker 2: has always been, 712 00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:27,460 Speaker 2: do you believe the story and you believe the, 713 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,970 Speaker 2: the well not believe the reality. Do you value the 714 00:32:30,970 --> 00:32:33,510 Speaker 2: reality the numbers now and you value the story for 715 00:32:33,510 --> 00:32:34,050 Speaker 2: the future? 716 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,850 Speaker 2: And that's a question for investors to ask. But I 717 00:32:36,850 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: would say that if you look at the photo, if 718 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,100 Speaker 2: you look at the, how tightly integrated it is in Indonesia, 719 00:32:44,110 --> 00:32:47,460 Speaker 2: the value that we bring in Singapore, the, 720 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,270 Speaker 2: the and the similar to Indonesia model that we are 721 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,570 Speaker 2: executing in Vietnam. I think there is at least the markets, 722 00:32:58,570 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 2: the public markets are saying we do value the current 723 00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:04,060 Speaker 2: and the future potential of this company 724 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,460 Speaker 2: and what it stands for. 725 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:06,050 Speaker 2: Mhm 726 00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:10,890 Speaker 1: Earlier we were talking about high fuel prices and I 727 00:33:10,890 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: think that was coming to my mind, but I held 728 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: on to that question at that point with, you know, 729 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,270 Speaker 1: what about, you know, switching the fleet to electric cars 730 00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:21,370 Speaker 1: and so on. So, liane, what do you see in 731 00:33:21,370 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: the region with respect to quitting the footprint of transportation 732 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: and logistics? 733 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,260 Speaker 2: Yeah, 734 00:33:27,740 --> 00:33:28,970 Speaker 2: a lot of, 735 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,260 Speaker 2: I would say 736 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,860 Speaker 2: it's not just the region, 737 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,190 Speaker 2: Covid plus other efforts globally have made climate change really. 738 00:33:38,190 --> 00:33:39,460 Speaker 2: Number one on the agenda. 739 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,500 Speaker 2: So I said on the climate governance, Singapore's during committee. 740 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:45,130 Speaker 2: I also, you know, sit on the board of the 741 00:33:45,130 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: center for social enterprise. So these are related to the 742 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,850 Speaker 2: e and the s of the SGN obviously 743 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 2: just being a board member or even as a management. 744 00:33:55,850 --> 00:33:58,910 Speaker 2: Uh there's obviously a strong G angle. So I said, 745 00:33:58,910 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: GSG really has 746 00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:01,850 Speaker 2: uh 747 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,730 Speaker 2: become front and center across the consciousness of Corporates of 748 00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 2: people everywhere. 749 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,650 Speaker 2: Um PMS, you know, at the at the budget, we 750 00:34:11,650 --> 00:34:13,750 Speaker 2: talked to, you know, the government 751 00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:16,589 Speaker 2: basically gave a price to carbon and said that they 752 00:34:16,590 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 2: will be raising the price of 753 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: uh per ton of carbon emissions gradually over the next 754 00:34:23,090 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: several years. Um So there is a market price to 755 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,060 Speaker 2: it already and the companies are responding. 756 00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:36,510 Speaker 2: Um the biggest emitters would be things like construction, concrete transport. 757 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,900 Speaker 2: Um so we're all taking steps to green. Go check 758 00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:41,060 Speaker 2: in particular has a 759 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,050 Speaker 2: We have a 000 policy. 760 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,660 Speaker 2: Um you know, and when we think think uh so 761 00:34:49,670 --> 00:34:51,350 Speaker 2: whether it is something around 762 00:34:51,739 --> 00:34:52,669 Speaker 2: ah 763 00:34:54,140 --> 00:34:56,170 Speaker 2: the amount of plastic waste that we 764 00:34:56,540 --> 00:35:01,370 Speaker 2: generate through food delivery, whether it is having a fully 765 00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:07,940 Speaker 2: Evie fleet, uh you know, by 2030 whether it's any 766 00:35:07,940 --> 00:35:10,060 Speaker 2: of these um measures, 767 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: I think we are definitely with the times 768 00:35:15,140 --> 00:35:18,690 Speaker 1: and as we speak today, I mean there are concrete 769 00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: steps being taken to do those two things reducing plastic 770 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,550 Speaker 1: waste and 771 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,670 Speaker 1: getting a bigger fleet of SUVs. 772 00:35:26,739 --> 00:35:28,690 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so this is the, so I'm sorry, 773 00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,460 Speaker 2: I should have 774 00:35:31,140 --> 00:35:35,509 Speaker 2: Elaborated. So our pledges, zero emissions, zero waste, zero barriers 775 00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:38,489 Speaker 2: by 2030, isn't a very long time 776 00:35:38,489 --> 00:35:39,739 Speaker 1: away as 777 00:35:39,739 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 2: as these things. All right. It's it's so it requires 778 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,670 Speaker 2: changing now. Um from let's say take TVs. So uh 779 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 2: we we have E. V. 780 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,770 Speaker 2: Partnership with with with bogoro and we'll be rolling out 781 00:35:53,770 --> 00:35:56,969 Speaker 2: these E. V. Motorcycles in Indonesia. 782 00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:02,850 Speaker 2: Um and so environmental sustainability is to have the zero 783 00:36:02,850 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 2: emissions and zero waste. I'm trying to pull out the 784 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,150 Speaker 2: exact specific number here. 785 00:36:07,630 --> 00:36:08,460 Speaker 2: Uh 786 00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 2: okay. Actually it's it's it's actually a really long line 787 00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:14,460 Speaker 2: long long list but 788 00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:16,049 Speaker 2: let's just say that 789 00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 2: um 790 00:36:17,330 --> 00:36:22,870 Speaker 2: Under underpinning the 000 by 2030 there's a long list 791 00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:26,940 Speaker 2: of practices that we have pledged to publicly and that 792 00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 2: we will be committed to? 793 00:36:29,330 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: Very good. 794 00:36:30,430 --> 00:36:33,620 Speaker 1: Um Let me ask you a question that I think 795 00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:35,980 Speaker 1: first came up in the context of Uber a bunch 796 00:36:35,980 --> 00:36:38,550 Speaker 1: of years ago where somebody had heard 797 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:41,450 Speaker 1: um I think it was Travis Kalanick but it could 798 00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:43,540 Speaker 1: be somebody else from Uber that the ultimate view was 799 00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: to actually have automated cars because that simplifies the ride 800 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: hailing operations substantially. Um so I just want to hear 801 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: your general view that, you 802 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:53,850 Speaker 2: know, technology 803 00:36:53,850 --> 00:36:56,850 Speaker 1: is very disruptive and it's been through the centuries, all 804 00:36:56,850 --> 00:36:58,549 Speaker 1: sorts of jobs gets this place, 805 00:36:58,730 --> 00:37:00,780 Speaker 1: People then move on to something else and so on. 806 00:37:00,790 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: But how do you see 807 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:03,390 Speaker 2: this 808 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,779 Speaker 1: issue of striking a balance between embracing innovation and automating 809 00:37:08,780 --> 00:37:09,460 Speaker 1: jobs away. 810 00:37:11,730 --> 00:37:13,770 Speaker 2: I think it very much depends on the nature of 811 00:37:13,770 --> 00:37:15,540 Speaker 2: the job that you that you have. 812 00:37:16,030 --> 00:37:19,540 Speaker 2: I mean, and there's been so many sort of historical parallels? 813 00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:22,810 Speaker 2: I'll try a few of them, right, which I think 814 00:37:22,810 --> 00:37:24,250 Speaker 2: many people would be familiar with 815 00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:27,049 Speaker 2: tv didn't completely displaced radio, 816 00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:30,650 Speaker 2: but radio is still around, streaming is still around. So 817 00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:33,870 Speaker 2: depending on the industry, you will get two or three 818 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 2: multiple tracks. 819 00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:38,460 Speaker 2: Um we still have the spoke uh 820 00:37:38,830 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 2: sort of artisan craftsmen, you've got mass produced shoes, but 821 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,790 Speaker 2: you also have people who like really nice shoes and 822 00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:47,850 Speaker 2: other made shoes. And uh those craftsmen are still around, 823 00:37:47,860 --> 00:37:48,850 Speaker 2: you have 824 00:37:49,330 --> 00:37:51,850 Speaker 2: Casio watches, but you also have 825 00:37:52,330 --> 00:37:54,850 Speaker 2: handmade, expensive swiss watches. 826 00:37:55,630 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 2: So it really depends on the industry and there will 827 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,750 Speaker 2: always be a space for 828 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 2: some of these skills. I think the thing I always 829 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,029 Speaker 2: ask people is maybe you might not want to be 830 00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:06,350 Speaker 2: a driver, but would you still want to get a 831 00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:07,330 Speaker 2: driving license? 832 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:08,339 Speaker 2: Um 833 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 2: there might be a day in the far future where 834 00:38:11,370 --> 00:38:14,529 Speaker 2: driving licenses or there are no humans 835 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,550 Speaker 2: allowed. Right, But I don't think that that's coming yet. 836 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,299 Speaker 2: So maybe it's also around the question of how far 837 00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:23,140 Speaker 2: or how, how near is that future? 838 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,650 Speaker 2: Um more broad. So the first point I want to 839 00:38:25,650 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 2: make is that the industry that you're in really matters, 840 00:38:28,650 --> 00:38:31,590 Speaker 2: will there always be a space for some human element 841 00:38:31,590 --> 00:38:34,850 Speaker 2: to it or some human craftsmanship? I think the answer 842 00:38:34,850 --> 00:38:37,830 Speaker 2: is yes, driving maybe a little bit less of a 843 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,100 Speaker 2: uh sort of craftsman type of skill. But then the 844 00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 2: second question there is, what is the time horizon in 845 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,450 Speaker 2: which it will come 846 00:38:47,020 --> 00:38:49,950 Speaker 2: 3rd and more broadly I think is, um, 847 00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:53,530 Speaker 2: I really like how Ntuc pictures it 848 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,050 Speaker 2: in other jurisdictions, in other countries. You have very strong 849 00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,030 Speaker 2: unions who are trying to preserve the jobs and here 850 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,350 Speaker 2: and you see the mantra, I really like it is, 851 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,430 Speaker 2: it's about taking care of the workers, not taking care 852 00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:10,650 Speaker 2: of the work. So they don't, they don't, they don't 853 00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:14,810 Speaker 2: know whether to a particular type of activity, but whether 854 00:39:14,810 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 2: to the people that do things 855 00:39:17,219 --> 00:39:20,730 Speaker 2: and that really comes to the point of re rolling 856 00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:22,650 Speaker 2: and really supporting the re rolling in 857 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 2: even in right hailing, we not just myself, but our competitors, 858 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 2: we have re skilling and re rolling abilities for, um, 859 00:39:31,810 --> 00:39:33,150 Speaker 2: for the driver partners, 860 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,150 Speaker 2: whether, and some of some people, our driver partners because 861 00:39:37,150 --> 00:39:41,009 Speaker 2: it gives them the flexibility to amend one guy, He 862 00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:44,270 Speaker 2: was actually studying his part time degree and so driving 863 00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:47,669 Speaker 2: gave him an income to help support him, support his, 864 00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:49,650 Speaker 2: his education while he 865 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,750 Speaker 2: wanted to move into something else. And super happy for him. 866 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:58,149 Speaker 2: So, to your point about striking the balance, I'd say, uh, 867 00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 2: the speed at which the innovation comes, 868 00:40:04,810 --> 00:40:05,529 Speaker 2: uh, 869 00:40:07,610 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: mm hmm, 870 00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:12,290 Speaker 2: let's use a v specifically, the speed at which the 871 00:40:12,290 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 2: innovation comes 872 00:40:14,110 --> 00:40:21,620 Speaker 2: hopefully is in time for social acceptance ability for, uh, 873 00:40:21,630 --> 00:40:26,150 Speaker 2: for large groups to, um, to reroll recently, we had 874 00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 2: a tripartite meeting where the conversation was about autonomous vehicles 875 00:40:30,610 --> 00:40:34,630 Speaker 2: and uh, and, and sign posting that they will come 876 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,690 Speaker 2: and this is in a sign of how for looking 877 00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:40,620 Speaker 2: the whole industry is whether the regulators, whether the unions, 878 00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 2: whether the platforms, we're talking about these things early so 879 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,299 Speaker 2: that workers can be prepared. So the responsibility is to 880 00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:48,820 Speaker 2: make sure that it's not too 881 00:40:49,010 --> 00:40:52,250 Speaker 2: denied change, it is to manage the speed of change. 882 00:40:52,250 --> 00:40:53,830 Speaker 2: And I think we're doing pretty well. 883 00:40:54,210 --> 00:40:57,620 Speaker 2: Um, babies in particular looks like they still are a 884 00:40:57,620 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 2: while away. 885 00:40:58,710 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 2: But if it suddenly turns overnight that let's say you 886 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,430 Speaker 2: had a magic wand tomorrow, babies could be here. Um, 887 00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:08,790 Speaker 2: I think then it would be a case of really 888 00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 2: man managing through that transition, 889 00:41:10,910 --> 00:41:11,330 Speaker 2: but 890 00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 2: without any magic ones already doing the best we can 891 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,129 Speaker 2: to signpost, doing the best we can to 892 00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:21,770 Speaker 2: reroll and doing the best we can to ensure that 893 00:41:21,780 --> 00:41:22,330 Speaker 2: people 894 00:41:23,110 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 2: stay sort of culturally educationally 895 00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:27,529 Speaker 2: fluid 896 00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 2: and are willing to reroll and willing to take on 897 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:31,330 Speaker 2: new things. 898 00:41:32,210 --> 00:41:37,170 Speaker 1: Um, from your vantage perspective, how many years do you 899 00:41:37,170 --> 00:41:40,969 Speaker 1: think before we see a sizable number of cars becoming 900 00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:44,140 Speaker 1: autonomous cars in the, in the ride hailing world? 901 00:41:46,310 --> 00:41:47,830 Speaker 2: Well, 902 00:41:48,910 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 2: it's a number that's far enough away that I'm sure 903 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,020 Speaker 2: nobody's gonna call me out on it and, 904 00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 2: and, and nobody's gonna make, well maybe they might, this 905 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,340 Speaker 2: is a, this is an important podcast. So they may 906 00:41:59,340 --> 00:42:00,819 Speaker 2: do that. So I am, 907 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 2: it's hard for us to be, it's, it's, it's hard 908 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 2: to go out on a limb here, 909 00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 2: significant amounts say 910 00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:08,820 Speaker 2: 10, 15 years. 911 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:13,050 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like, you know, the enthusiasm that all 912 00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:16,860 Speaker 1: the googles and others had about autonomous vehicles say 57 913 00:42:16,860 --> 00:42:18,590 Speaker 1: years ago when it seemed like it was just a 914 00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 1: question of harnessing enough data and we'll have it, 915 00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: it seems that that's flattened to some extent that, you know, 916 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,140 Speaker 1: technologically and also from a regulatory perspective, it's not turning 917 00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:31,020 Speaker 1: out to be that straightforward. Am I missing something here? 918 00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:35,630 Speaker 2: I think the perception is right um, in more controlled environments. 919 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,230 Speaker 2: So if we talk about ports, porter, Porter quite well 920 00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:39,930 Speaker 2: defined 921 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 2: environments in places like that, in places where you're running 922 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,220 Speaker 2: a standard loop, I think he's already pretty well known 923 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,420 Speaker 2: and you know, I mean, these are 924 00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 2: um, it is these operating environments where you already have, 925 00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:53,720 Speaker 2: if these uh, 926 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:55,820 Speaker 2: commercially operating, 927 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 2: um, I think when you're exposing them to the full 928 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 2: challenge of, of, 929 00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:06,500 Speaker 2: of city traffic, then that's where you get so many 930 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:09,009 Speaker 2: unpredictable things happening and it is that till the end, 931 00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 2: ah, 932 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,899 Speaker 2: and there's just so many cases, eight cases are much 933 00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:14,420 Speaker 2: more the, 934 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,670 Speaker 2: the, the norm than the exception. I think that's where 935 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,290 Speaker 2: it gets pretty tricky, right? And we're not even talking 936 00:43:20,290 --> 00:43:22,299 Speaker 2: about different climate conditions and we just get rained here, 937 00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,919 Speaker 2: but imagine you're in a place that has rain sleet, snow, hail, 938 00:43:25,930 --> 00:43:27,310 Speaker 2: maybe some all in the same day. 939 00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 2: Uh that that makes it much more tricky. 940 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,470 Speaker 1: Yeah, things all of those that you have experienced many 941 00:43:33,469 --> 00:43:37,770 Speaker 1: times during your various expeditions. Leanne, I think we will 942 00:43:37,780 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: end on that note. I really appreciate your sort of, 943 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,489 Speaker 1: you know, human angle in in looking at this role 944 00:43:43,489 --> 00:43:46,530 Speaker 1: of technology and innovation. I really appreciate that. So, good 945 00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:49,270 Speaker 1: luck with logic and good luck with all your other 946 00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:50,510 Speaker 1: demanding pursuits. 947 00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:51,620 Speaker 1: See liam. 948 00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:53,820 Speaker 1: Thanks very much for your time and insights. 949 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,810 Speaker 2: Thank you Time. A real pleasure to be here. 950 00:43:56,850 --> 00:43:59,750 Speaker 1: It's great to have you Thanks to our listeners to 951 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,870 Speaker 1: Kobe time was produced by Kendall Rich from Spice Studios daisy. 952 00:44:03,870 --> 00:44:07,810 Speaker 1: Sherman validly provided additional systems. Kobe time is for information 953 00:44:07,810 --> 00:44:10,610 Speaker 1: only and does not represent any trade recommendations. 954 00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:15,430 Speaker 1: All 76 episodes of the podcast are available on YouTube 955 00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: and on all major platforms. Cast platforms including apple, google 956 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,850 Speaker 1: and Spotify. As for our all research publications, webinars and 957 00:44:22,850 --> 00:44:25,810 Speaker 1: live streams. You can find them by googling Devious Research Library. 958 00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:27,820 Speaker 1: Have a great day