1 00:00:05,889 --> 00:00:09,149 Speaker 1: Welcome to Copy Time, a podcast series on Markets and 2 00:00:09,159 --> 00:00:12,270 Speaker 1: Economies from D BS Group Research. I'm Pareek, chief economist, 3 00:00:12,398 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: welcoming you to our 117th episode. Today. We welcome back 4 00:00:18,610 --> 00:00:23,069 Speaker 1: an old friend Mori Mai Ceo of Singapore based penalty partners, 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,549 Speaker 1: a fund management company with responsible investing at its core. 6 00:00:27,930 --> 00:00:32,270 Speaker 1: Patchy is also a certified B corporation meeting the high 7 00:00:32,279 --> 00:00:37,619 Speaker 1: standards of verified social and environmental performance, public transparency and 8 00:00:37,630 --> 00:00:42,270 Speaker 1: legal accountability to balance profit and purpose. We last spoke 9 00:00:42,279 --> 00:00:43,470 Speaker 1: with Munib in the 10 00:00:43,549 --> 00:00:46,810 Speaker 1: middle of 2022. Let's get a sense of what pa 11 00:00:46,819 --> 00:00:49,340 Speaker 1: partner has been up to since then. And I want 12 00:00:49,348 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 1: to ask you a couple of questions in general in 13 00:00:51,330 --> 00:00:54,709 Speaker 1: the world of eg type investing based on some recent 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,869 Speaker 1: headlines that I've been coming across. So Mudi Mali, great 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,459 Speaker 1: to have you back on Kobe type. Uh 16 00:00:59,470 --> 00:01:02,869 Speaker 2: Great to be here, Tamur. It's every 18 months or 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,929 Speaker 2: two years we catch up, which is fantastic. 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,099 Speaker 1: I think there is so much going on with your 19 00:01:08,110 --> 00:01:10,279 Speaker 1: firm and the work that you do. I think that's 20 00:01:10,290 --> 00:01:13,459 Speaker 1: a maximum uh period and we need to probably do 21 00:01:13,470 --> 00:01:15,529 Speaker 1: them more frequently. Um 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,459 Speaker 1: will you give us a highlight reel if you will 23 00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:22,099 Speaker 1: of Paar Park's achievements since we last talked? 24 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:26,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. So um last time we met, uh I think 25 00:01:26,250 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: I was already sort of sharing with you how my, 26 00:01:29,410 --> 00:01:32,940 Speaker 2: my team and myself, we were helping our institutional clients, 27 00:01:32,949 --> 00:01:36,629 Speaker 2: uh you know, with their portfolios uh moving from a 28 00:01:36,639 --> 00:01:39,970 Speaker 2: risk return outcome to a risk return, sustainability outcome. Uh 29 00:01:40,010 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: Now since, and even when we last spoke, we talked 30 00:01:43,129 --> 00:01:47,209 Speaker 2: a lot about climate investing at a very high level, 31 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 2: at a let's say, 30,000 ft level and a helicopter level. 32 00:01:50,873 --> 00:01:54,413 Speaker 2: Um Since then, um my team have obviously other than 33 00:01:54,422 --> 00:01:57,373 Speaker 2: managing our global equity strategy, which is a strategy of 34 00:01:57,383 --> 00:02:01,273 Speaker 2: purposeful companies. We've fine tuned and sort of strengthened our 35 00:02:01,282 --> 00:02:06,053 Speaker 2: environmental capital sort of focus within the portfolios within our 36 00:02:06,063 --> 00:02:09,263 Speaker 2: own portfolios. We've put in place certain climate goals and 37 00:02:09,272 --> 00:02:13,143 Speaker 2: guardrails uh which is a must have nowadays for most 38 00:02:13,151 --> 00:02:17,503 Speaker 2: global equity strategies. Uh And, and, and we've also sort 39 00:02:17,513 --> 00:02:18,822 Speaker 2: of now been engaging 40 00:02:18,906 --> 00:02:23,475 Speaker 2: with our portfolio companies and also our investors, mostly most 41 00:02:23,485 --> 00:02:26,865 Speaker 2: of whom are institutional investors on how they can do 42 00:02:26,876 --> 00:02:31,906 Speaker 2: climate investing in the listed equity space, but with an 43 00:02:31,916 --> 00:02:35,945 Speaker 2: impact focus as opposed to having just very climate conscious strategies. 44 00:02:35,955 --> 00:02:38,475 Speaker 2: And again, later on, we can discuss the difference between 45 00:02:38,485 --> 00:02:42,445 Speaker 2: a climate conscious strategy and let's say climate impact strategy. 46 00:02:42,595 --> 00:02:46,326 Speaker 2: So the focus over the last 18 months has very 47 00:02:46,335 --> 00:02:47,005 Speaker 2: well been 48 00:02:47,279 --> 00:02:52,020 Speaker 2: on how we can share our learnings and also help 49 00:02:52,029 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: our clients move their portfolios towards a climate impact strategy 50 00:02:56,330 --> 00:02:58,758 Speaker 2: within the listed equity space. And that's been taking a 51 00:02:58,770 --> 00:02:59,850 Speaker 2: lot of time as well. 52 00:03:00,419 --> 00:03:02,638 Speaker 1: I can imagine just off the cuff 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,300 Speaker 1: a company, let's say a big fossil fuel producing company, 54 00:03:07,309 --> 00:03:11,299 Speaker 1: it emits 100 tons of carbon a year. Uh Of course, 55 00:03:11,309 --> 00:03:14,500 Speaker 1: that's a very big polluting entity in this world, but 56 00:03:14,508 --> 00:03:17,300 Speaker 1: it is on a credible path to reduce that emission 57 00:03:17,309 --> 00:03:20,550 Speaker 1: by 10% in the next two years. Would that make 58 00:03:20,559 --> 00:03:22,100 Speaker 1: you interested in investing in that company? 59 00:03:22,699 --> 00:03:26,830 Speaker 2: Hm. Uh So last time when we spoke uh TII 60 00:03:26,839 --> 00:03:30,779 Speaker 2: I said to you, my, my personal uh philosophy is 61 00:03:30,788 --> 00:03:35,509 Speaker 2: that incremental, positive change uh is a good move and 62 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,470 Speaker 2: absolute big numbers follow. So for me, I'm, I'm always 63 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:44,110 Speaker 2: uh you know, an investor who is looking at uh 64 00:03:44,119 --> 00:03:49,190 Speaker 2: the incremental pace of change as opposed to big law, 65 00:03:49,199 --> 00:03:49,949 Speaker 2: a big 66 00:03:50,419 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: uh sort of commitments that are made, you know, with 67 00:03:55,250 --> 00:03:58,250 Speaker 2: zero plans and there's plenty of that, especially when we 68 00:03:58,259 --> 00:04:00,380 Speaker 2: come to climate and this, we will discuss that in 69 00:04:00,389 --> 00:04:03,649 Speaker 2: a bit more detail later. So when I and my team, 70 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:06,570 Speaker 2: when we look at a company, uh we definitely want 71 00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: to see some movement in the right direction we want 72 00:04:08,729 --> 00:04:11,619 Speaker 2: to see. Are they genuinely doing it and have they 73 00:04:11,630 --> 00:04:13,070 Speaker 2: got in place plans and 74 00:04:13,615 --> 00:04:16,794 Speaker 2: to achieve that as opposed to someone who just goes 75 00:04:16,803 --> 00:04:21,195 Speaker 2: and makes a blind uh sort of without no plans commitment, 76 00:04:21,415 --> 00:04:24,404 Speaker 2: uh which is not genuine. So I think to answer 77 00:04:24,415 --> 00:04:27,294 Speaker 2: your question, you need to sort of open the hood 78 00:04:27,303 --> 00:04:29,815 Speaker 2: and look under the hood to see what truly is 79 00:04:29,825 --> 00:04:34,695 Speaker 2: that company, uh uh you know, doing delivering uh and 80 00:04:34,704 --> 00:04:36,354 Speaker 2: not just go with headline numbers, 81 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,489 Speaker 1: ok, without mentioning any company's name. But if uh I 82 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:43,170 Speaker 1: see an ad by a global energy giant and usually 83 00:04:43,178 --> 00:04:45,890 Speaker 1: see many ads about how they are, you know, focusing 84 00:04:45,899 --> 00:04:50,260 Speaker 1: on decarbonization and including the world. Um And if you do, 85 00:04:50,269 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: I mean, do your due diligence and you find that 86 00:04:52,010 --> 00:04:53,730 Speaker 1: that energy giant is sort of, you know, 87 00:04:54,549 --> 00:04:57,890 Speaker 1: speaking the talk and but also doing the job, uh 88 00:04:57,899 --> 00:05:01,010 Speaker 1: would you then consider investing in a fossil fuel company? 89 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:01,579 Speaker 1: So 90 00:05:01,589 --> 00:05:04,558 Speaker 2: for us in our portfolio, we 91 00:05:05,540 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: only invest in fossil fuel companies if there's a clear 92 00:05:08,769 --> 00:05:13,029 Speaker 2: line of sight to removal of fossil fuels over an 93 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,299 Speaker 2: extended period of time, right, a realistic period of time. 94 00:05:16,570 --> 00:05:21,220 Speaker 2: Um So I would say if someone is increasing their carbon, sorry, 95 00:05:21,230 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: uh let's say renewable portfolio, but at the same time, 96 00:05:24,890 --> 00:05:29,429 Speaker 2: they're going and exploring for more oil and gas, it 97 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: will be fine. It would be hard for us to 98 00:05:31,010 --> 00:05:33,678 Speaker 2: justify having that in our portfolio. Now, 99 00:05:34,339 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: that is our approach, there are fund managers and in 100 00:05:37,329 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: strategies that do you know, invest in companies in transition. 101 00:05:42,209 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 2: And we again, we spoke about that in a bit 102 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: more detail last time we spoke. So I think the 103 00:05:46,450 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: definition that and that's, I think that's where when I 104 00:05:49,209 --> 00:05:51,410 Speaker 2: originally said that we've spent a lot of time putting 105 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: in place in our global equity strategy, climate goals and 106 00:05:54,730 --> 00:05:56,428 Speaker 2: guardrails and 107 00:05:56,910 --> 00:06:00,529 Speaker 2: every investor who comes into our portfolio is, comes in 108 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:03,750 Speaker 2: knowing exactly what kind of climate goals we expect our 109 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,290 Speaker 2: global equity strategy to have and what guard rails and 110 00:06:06,299 --> 00:06:08,409 Speaker 2: one of the guard rails is that there has to be, 111 00:06:08,420 --> 00:06:10,940 Speaker 2: if we are going to invest in a fossil fuel company, 112 00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:12,570 Speaker 2: there has to be a clear line of sight of 113 00:06:12,579 --> 00:06:17,029 Speaker 2: removal of fossil fuels over a reasonable and feasible period. 114 00:06:17,940 --> 00:06:20,250 Speaker 2: It has to be almost in line with what IPCC 115 00:06:20,260 --> 00:06:24,488 Speaker 2: or the S BT I folks are prescribing um for, 116 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: for a fossil fuel company. 117 00:06:26,369 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: Great. Again, that is our, our mandate, other people can 118 00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:30,349 Speaker 2: have different mandates. 119 00:06:30,359 --> 00:06:34,489 Speaker 1: Sure. Sure. Um Well, I on my day to day work, 120 00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:36,609 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time looking at the US economy 121 00:06:36,678 --> 00:06:40,428 Speaker 1: and I see that, you know, we're stepping into 2024 122 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: with the US still looking very, very strong economy wise. 123 00:06:43,809 --> 00:06:48,428 Speaker 1: It's got a very tight labor market and the Ira 124 00:06:48,609 --> 00:06:51,470 Speaker 1: Act that inflation Russian act that President Biden passed a 125 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,909 Speaker 1: couple of years ago is turbo charging a lot of 126 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,670 Speaker 1: investment in the, in the green area. And yet M 127 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,928 Speaker 1: I recently read that last year esg job departures outpaced 128 00:07:01,940 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: arrivals in the US and it marked a reversal of 129 00:07:04,609 --> 00:07:07,428 Speaker 1: a multiyear trend. So just give me a sense whether 130 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,149 Speaker 1: you have been sort of following this and if there 131 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,709 Speaker 1: is anything to read from that, and also is there 132 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,089 Speaker 1: some counterpart of that observation with respect to Asia? 133 00:07:15,559 --> 00:07:19,429 Speaker 2: Yeah, now you're asking me to comment on the US 134 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,018 Speaker 2: uh as an economist. Now, that's dangerous, right? And I, 135 00:07:23,029 --> 00:07:25,350 Speaker 2: I'm so scared of answering that because, you know, the 136 00:07:25,359 --> 00:07:27,850 Speaker 2: US economy much better than I do. And, and you 137 00:07:27,859 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 2: also know the jobs break down in the US, much 138 00:07:31,250 --> 00:07:33,828 Speaker 2: better than I do. Um So it's, it's going to 139 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:34,429 Speaker 2: be hard for me to do, 140 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: say how much of uh the ESG, let's say uh 141 00:07:39,170 --> 00:07:44,109 Speaker 2: uh exits versus applications or let's say new job entries 142 00:07:44,190 --> 00:07:50,070 Speaker 2: is because of uh a step away from uh Ira 143 00:07:50,079 --> 00:07:53,089 Speaker 2: or Ira not being delivered. And there's 144 00:07:53,690 --> 00:07:55,420 Speaker 2: at least on the ground when I speak to a 145 00:07:55,429 --> 00:07:58,529 Speaker 2: lot of portfolio companies in the US who are considered 146 00:07:58,540 --> 00:08:02,929 Speaker 2: beneficiaries of Ira, they would openly say that they're not 147 00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:07,670 Speaker 2: seeing the money hit their accounts yet, right? And there's 148 00:08:07,679 --> 00:08:10,589 Speaker 2: still bureaucracy, there's still a lot of sort of uh 149 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,549 Speaker 2: uh pent up potential. But whether they're seeing it actually 150 00:08:14,559 --> 00:08:15,730 Speaker 2: manifest itself in 151 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:19,850 Speaker 2: more sales and therefore more employees and more production that 152 00:08:19,859 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: is not happened yet. So whether there is a little 153 00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:24,089 Speaker 2: bit of, there was a little bit of excitement when 154 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:27,079 Speaker 2: it all happened two years ago and people hide people 155 00:08:27,089 --> 00:08:31,339 Speaker 2: thinking OK, we, there's a tsunami of sort of environmental 156 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: deals coming through and not showing up and then they're 157 00:08:33,530 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: having to cut those people that could very well be 158 00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:37,659 Speaker 2: happening on the ground in the US. 159 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,909 Speaker 2: If I take a sort of a global sort of 160 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:47,739 Speaker 2: approach to sustainability esg roles, uh I think there is 161 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:52,419 Speaker 2: no doubt uh even in Asia, for example, uh there's, 162 00:08:52,429 --> 00:08:57,179 Speaker 2: there is a, there's plenty of demand for folks who 163 00:08:57,409 --> 00:09:02,539 Speaker 2: uh are either upgrading their own experiences and skill sets 164 00:09:02,549 --> 00:09:06,140 Speaker 2: to include sustainability. And I think especially if you look 165 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:12,500 Speaker 2: at environmental capital focused roles, especially in Asia, this I 166 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:15,419 Speaker 2: would say this there, there will be demand for a 167 00:09:15,429 --> 00:09:17,489 Speaker 2: long time to come still because we are starting from 168 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:19,510 Speaker 2: a very low base as we will speak 169 00:09:19,619 --> 00:09:23,820 Speaker 2: later on. The actions taken by companies, regulators organizations in 170 00:09:23,830 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 2: Asia is still at a very low base. So then, 171 00:09:26,729 --> 00:09:28,390 Speaker 2: and it's a part of it is the chicken and 172 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,590 Speaker 2: the egg. Many of them don't have the actual employee 173 00:09:30,599 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: capacity and the knowledge and know how. So I think 174 00:09:33,969 --> 00:09:36,159 Speaker 2: that in Asia, I think there's still going to be 175 00:09:36,169 --> 00:09:38,590 Speaker 2: plenty of demand for people who are, you know, who 176 00:09:38,599 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 2: are skilled in sustainability and especially in the environmental space. 177 00:09:42,309 --> 00:09:45,140 Speaker 1: Yeah, some of if you want to wish that there 178 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: was an entity out there that provided the no house 179 00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:50,348 Speaker 1: to companies. That's just a teaser. We'll come to that 180 00:09:50,359 --> 00:09:53,380 Speaker 1: a little later. Um We need uh one more uh 181 00:09:53,390 --> 00:09:56,900 Speaker 1: news uh headline related question. So I read last week 182 00:09:56,909 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: that um JP Morgan Asset Management, Blackrock and State Street 183 00:10:00,010 --> 00:10:03,150 Speaker 1: Global Advisors. They have all retweeted from the Climate Action 184 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:04,580 Speaker 1: 100 plus Investor Compact. 185 00:10:04,809 --> 00:10:07,989 Speaker 1: Uh And the interpretation in the press was that they 186 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,750 Speaker 1: don't want to deal with the political and legal liability 187 00:10:10,849 --> 00:10:12,549 Speaker 1: uh that the compact would have sort of, you know, 188 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,150 Speaker 1: push on them. Uh Can you unpack this development for us? 189 00:10:16,719 --> 00:10:20,108 Speaker 2: Uh Yeah, it's hard for me to say why they left. 190 00:10:20,119 --> 00:10:22,929 Speaker 2: Uh But I can sort of maybe for uh share 191 00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:25,859 Speaker 2: some observations which might be helpful to, to your listeners. 192 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,270 Speaker 2: So if you look at the, the whole climate action 193 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,919 Speaker 2: 100 plus, right, it was initially started in 2017 and 194 00:10:32,929 --> 00:10:35,099 Speaker 2: it was meant to be for a +15 year period. 195 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,718 Speaker 2: And the whole purpose of this was that uh quite 196 00:10:38,729 --> 00:10:42,460 Speaker 2: a few big, big investors all got together and 197 00:10:42,570 --> 00:10:46,140 Speaker 2: having a substantial amount of aum under their, you could 198 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:50,939 Speaker 2: say mandates, they had obviously influence on companies. And the 199 00:10:50,950 --> 00:10:54,108 Speaker 2: view was that let's go and focus on some of 200 00:10:54,119 --> 00:10:57,659 Speaker 2: the biggest emitters and get them to actually commit to 201 00:10:57,669 --> 00:11:00,830 Speaker 2: certain climate targets and goals. And that was the whole 202 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:06,340 Speaker 2: purpose of ca 100. And it's been relatively successful in 203 00:11:06,349 --> 00:11:07,989 Speaker 2: doing that, you know, 204 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: the all these investors did come out did go. And 205 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:13,830 Speaker 2: I would say in some cases, name and shame some 206 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,530 Speaker 2: of these companies into putting in climate targets and, and, and, and, 207 00:11:17,609 --> 00:11:20,669 Speaker 2: and the whole approach of C 100 has been very 208 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,218 Speaker 2: target oriented with very clear. If a company does not 209 00:11:25,229 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: do it, they're going to take action almost in an 210 00:11:27,969 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 2: activist way. Uh and, and sort of bring voting action 211 00:11:32,570 --> 00:11:35,619 Speaker 2: against the management and the board. And I think uh 212 00:11:36,140 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: that worked, it worked for a while getting people to 213 00:11:38,890 --> 00:11:41,950 Speaker 2: come and commit to targets. But once those targets have 214 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: been put in place, 215 00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 2: many investors are like, OK, there's now a next level 216 00:11:47,690 --> 00:11:50,590 Speaker 2: of engagement and that next level of engagement most probably 217 00:11:50,599 --> 00:11:53,979 Speaker 2: cannot be aggressive. It cannot be the name and sort 218 00:11:53,989 --> 00:11:58,329 Speaker 2: of shame approach, maybe. So that's where I think some 219 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:02,409 Speaker 2: of these investors that you named may be thinking, OK, 220 00:12:02,419 --> 00:12:07,488 Speaker 2: we've we've done what the coalition or this grouping initiative 221 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 2: wanted to do for the first, let's say five years now, 222 00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:12,489 Speaker 2: it's time for us to revisit how we 223 00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:15,829 Speaker 2: engage with our portfolio companies. That would be my sort 224 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,289 Speaker 2: of observation, I think for me and my team at 225 00:12:19,299 --> 00:12:22,969 Speaker 2: Panahi pans, the one thing that becomes very clear from 226 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,130 Speaker 2: this event is that there's two things that we've believed 227 00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:29,299 Speaker 2: in for a while. Now, the first one is that 228 00:12:29,489 --> 00:12:33,739 Speaker 2: the name and shame approach does not work, you know, 229 00:12:33,809 --> 00:12:37,489 Speaker 2: and this is me speaking for 30 years of doing 230 00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:40,450 Speaker 2: investing and engaging with listed companies globally. 231 00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: Uh and especially in Asia, it doesn't work, but even 232 00:12:43,210 --> 00:12:46,689 Speaker 2: globally to get management and boards of companies to act 233 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:50,169 Speaker 2: and act in areas that are not very, let's say, 234 00:12:50,179 --> 00:12:54,049 Speaker 2: clearly beneficial to the shareholders in a very quick instance. 235 00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:57,250 Speaker 2: Uh the name and shamed approach does not, they might 236 00:12:57,260 --> 00:13:00,039 Speaker 2: commit to targets, but they're not going to act on it. 237 00:13:00,090 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: So that to me is very clear from uh what 238 00:13:04,969 --> 00:13:08,409 Speaker 2: happened with this, uh you know, coalition is that 239 00:13:08,789 --> 00:13:12,289 Speaker 2: you, you can't, you can't sort of uh force through 240 00:13:12,299 --> 00:13:15,849 Speaker 2: name and shaming companies into acting. Um I think the, 241 00:13:15,859 --> 00:13:18,580 Speaker 2: the second thing that became very clear is that 242 00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:22,150 Speaker 2: investors have plenty of climate 243 00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:23,689 Speaker 2: initiatives 244 00:13:25,159 --> 00:13:29,780 Speaker 2: which they force their investing companies to adhere to, right? 245 00:13:29,789 --> 00:13:32,539 Speaker 2: Uh There's many of them uh I don't have to 246 00:13:32,549 --> 00:13:35,390 Speaker 2: mention them here but they've been around for the last 247 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,619 Speaker 2: 5 to 7 years. Uh What is missing is the, how, 248 00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:44,460 Speaker 2: how are those investing companies going to go and deliver 249 00:13:44,469 --> 00:13:48,429 Speaker 2: on those commitments that these initiatives have forced them to make? 250 00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:53,489 Speaker 2: And we're at that moment now where uh even investors 251 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,119 Speaker 2: when they go and speak to their investing companies are saying, 252 00:13:56,130 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 2: thank you for agreeing to the C A platform 100 253 00:13:59,570 --> 00:14:03,390 Speaker 2: plus or let's say uh net zero commitments or S 254 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,500 Speaker 2: BT I, you name it all these initiatives and targets. 255 00:14:07,270 --> 00:14:09,890 Speaker 2: But the how is missing, not many people are telling 256 00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:13,539 Speaker 2: their investing companies this is how maybe you can achieve that. 257 00:14:13,809 --> 00:14:17,150 Speaker 2: Um And, and I think that is also become clear 258 00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:21,739 Speaker 2: from this reversal or let's say of people leaving maybe 259 00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:25,489 Speaker 2: something like the C 100 is that investors know they've 260 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:29,750 Speaker 2: done their first big move of converting people to putting 261 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: in climate 262 00:14:31,250 --> 00:14:34,349 Speaker 2: ambitions and targets. But now we are in the next phase. 263 00:14:34,359 --> 00:14:37,190 Speaker 2: How do we get these converted to actually act? 264 00:14:38,239 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: So I'm really curious about that nitty gritty part. Uh 265 00:14:41,289 --> 00:14:44,500 Speaker 1: I think every year when cop happens and you know, 266 00:14:44,510 --> 00:14:48,039 Speaker 1: we hear this sweeping announcement and proclamations by both countries 267 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,250 Speaker 1: and companies, you know, 2050 2016, 90. This that or, 268 00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:54,179 Speaker 1: you know, even China making very 269 00:14:54,739 --> 00:14:57,669 Speaker 1: heroic, you know, claims about how its carbon intensity would 270 00:14:57,679 --> 00:15:00,539 Speaker 1: sort of peak this decade and it will progressively decline. 271 00:15:00,590 --> 00:15:03,679 Speaker 1: But to your point, these are all end points very 272 00:15:03,690 --> 00:15:06,809 Speaker 1: well taken, very well intentioned. But how do we go 273 00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: from here to there? Um So you said that, you know, 274 00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:13,229 Speaker 1: there's no shortage of coalitions. Uh let's talk about one 275 00:15:13,239 --> 00:15:17,359 Speaker 1: of those coalitions uh Gigatons coalition. Uh you've been working 276 00:15:17,369 --> 00:15:20,159 Speaker 1: on it. Uh Let's talk about it. What is it? 277 00:15:20,169 --> 00:15:22,270 Speaker 1: And where do you see it becoming over time? 278 00:15:22,989 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the gate and coalition is uh uh the 279 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:32,809 Speaker 2: paky partners team um solution, I would say uh to 280 00:15:32,820 --> 00:15:36,309 Speaker 2: a TRM that we have. The TRM that we have 281 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: is first that globally we know that there's a depleting 282 00:15:39,330 --> 00:15:40,130 Speaker 2: carbon budget. 283 00:15:40,390 --> 00:15:42,479 Speaker 2: Uh If you uh you know, look at the work 284 00:15:42,489 --> 00:15:45,780 Speaker 2: that's being done by the carbon project. Uh They say 285 00:15:45,789 --> 00:15:49,219 Speaker 2: that we've got about 625 billion tons of carbon emissions 286 00:15:49,229 --> 00:15:53,690 Speaker 2: left before we go beyond a 1.7 degrees or higher 287 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: from industrial level. So at current emission levels, that's 12 years. 288 00:15:58,630 --> 00:16:02,929 Speaker 2: Uh So a depleting carbon budget, how do we stop 289 00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:06,130 Speaker 2: depleting it, conserve it if not grow. That pie is 290 00:16:06,140 --> 00:16:07,729 Speaker 2: a challenge and that's a global challenge. 291 00:16:08,059 --> 00:16:12,070 Speaker 2: Uh The second dilemma is that many invested companies, as 292 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,380 Speaker 2: I was saying to you who have committed to these initiatives, 293 00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:18,119 Speaker 2: they don't know how to deliver on those. And I'll 294 00:16:18,130 --> 00:16:20,580 Speaker 2: give you some numerics here, right to help you understand 295 00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:24,119 Speaker 2: this problem. Currently, there's only 7411 296 00:16:24,304 --> 00:16:27,385 Speaker 2: companies who have given S BT I, which is the 297 00:16:27,395 --> 00:16:31,325 Speaker 2: science based target initiative, some kind of a climate ambition 298 00:16:31,335 --> 00:16:36,294 Speaker 2: or target with a plan, right? Only 7411 globally, there's 299 00:16:36,304 --> 00:16:40,484 Speaker 2: hundreds and thousands of listed companies let alone unlisted companies. 300 00:16:41,015 --> 00:16:43,205 Speaker 2: And I would say the majority of the people are 301 00:16:43,215 --> 00:16:46,114 Speaker 2: not giving S BT this information is because the majority 302 00:16:46,125 --> 00:16:47,544 Speaker 2: of them don't know how to do it. So why 303 00:16:47,554 --> 00:16:48,484 Speaker 2: would they commit to it? 304 00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:53,049 Speaker 2: So there is a massive massive disconnect between what companies 305 00:16:53,099 --> 00:16:57,609 Speaker 2: know about climate reduction or carbon reduction and climate action 306 00:16:57,659 --> 00:16:59,919 Speaker 2: and therefore the commitments they are willing to make. That's 307 00:16:59,929 --> 00:17:05,530 Speaker 2: the second problem. And the third one is that investors, 308 00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: institutional investors, they now want to have climate impact but 309 00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 2: they can't find it at scale and with integrity, 310 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,930 Speaker 2: they can find it in pockets in small private investments 311 00:17:16,939 --> 00:17:20,050 Speaker 2: and technology, hoping that, you know, they will find a 312 00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:23,469 Speaker 2: carbon capture technology over the next 10 years. But hope 313 00:17:23,479 --> 00:17:26,619 Speaker 2: is not a good strategy when you are dealing with 314 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,939 Speaker 2: such a global existential issue. 315 00:17:29,324 --> 00:17:33,515 Speaker 2: So these three problems, my team and I said, ok, 316 00:17:33,795 --> 00:17:37,074 Speaker 2: how do we help solve for this? And we thought 317 00:17:37,395 --> 00:17:40,755 Speaker 2: and having spoken to many investors and investing firms over 318 00:17:40,765 --> 00:17:43,704 Speaker 2: the last seven years and especially the last six years 319 00:17:43,714 --> 00:17:44,675 Speaker 2: at Pak Pans, 320 00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:49,459 Speaker 2: what we needed is uh and what we've created under 321 00:17:49,469 --> 00:17:53,589 Speaker 2: the Gatan coalition is a unique investor invest led 322 00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,300 Speaker 2: and this is very important. It's investor invest led 323 00:17:58,229 --> 00:18:01,689 Speaker 2: uh uh grouping of uh 324 00:18:03,099 --> 00:18:07,069 Speaker 2: or you could say investor investigated uh platform uh for 325 00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:09,030 Speaker 2: solutions that are practical, 326 00:18:10,010 --> 00:18:13,670 Speaker 2: financially feasible and tested for decarbonisation 327 00:18:14,449 --> 00:18:17,810 Speaker 2: and the third player in this coalition, other than the 328 00:18:17,819 --> 00:18:23,270 Speaker 2: investor in investing are solution providers for decarbonisation. And just 329 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,409 Speaker 2: like I know for a fact that when I go 330 00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:27,589 Speaker 2: to and speak to many of my portfolio companies in 331 00:18:27,599 --> 00:18:30,099 Speaker 2: my global equity strategy who have a net zero target 332 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:31,310 Speaker 2: or S BT target. 333 00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:34,530 Speaker 2: I'm very happy that they have it. But when I say, 334 00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:37,500 Speaker 2: show me the plan and show me the suppliers who 335 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:39,910 Speaker 2: are going to help you get there and those suppliers 336 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: can come in many forms, they can come in the 337 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:45,938 Speaker 2: form of consultants who are providing them with internal KPs 338 00:18:45,949 --> 00:18:49,699 Speaker 2: and organizational structures to create this change. It can come 339 00:18:49,709 --> 00:18:52,949 Speaker 2: in soft technology, software technology or hardware technology and it 340 00:18:52,959 --> 00:18:55,540 Speaker 2: can also come in the form of policy and research 341 00:18:55,550 --> 00:18:58,069 Speaker 2: support that they might need for lobbying. Right? 342 00:18:58,729 --> 00:19:01,030 Speaker 2: Many of these companies don't have that. And the whole 343 00:19:01,219 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 2: gate coalition is about providing a library of solutions 344 00:19:05,709 --> 00:19:09,179 Speaker 2: that help decarbonisation and it helps those companies that have 345 00:19:09,189 --> 00:19:14,569 Speaker 2: already converted by having targets achieve those. And what it, 346 00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:16,449 Speaker 2: I suppose that another way to look at it is 347 00:19:16,459 --> 00:19:19,170 Speaker 2: that the Gin Coalition, what it's not, it's not an 348 00:19:19,180 --> 00:19:23,599 Speaker 2: initiative with plenty of signatories but no solutions. It's not 349 00:19:23,609 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: a it's not meant to be a consultancy that goes 350 00:19:25,810 --> 00:19:28,290 Speaker 2: into a company investing company and say, oh by the way, 351 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:29,319 Speaker 2: this is your problem 352 00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:32,959 Speaker 2: because companies who have already got targets in place, they 353 00:19:32,969 --> 00:19:35,170 Speaker 2: already kind of have to know what their problems are. 354 00:19:35,339 --> 00:19:37,430 Speaker 2: This is meant to. And this is not also a 355 00:19:37,439 --> 00:19:39,319 Speaker 2: rating agency that is 356 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,219 Speaker 2: forcing companies to tick the box and get a rating 357 00:19:44,229 --> 00:19:48,459 Speaker 2: and therefore claim to have certain climate and then stop 358 00:19:48,469 --> 00:19:50,859 Speaker 2: there and say, ok, now it's not our problem. So, 359 00:19:50,869 --> 00:19:54,179 Speaker 2: so I think for us this is a very practical, 360 00:19:54,189 --> 00:19:57,939 Speaker 2: it's we envisage this to be a library of climate 361 00:19:57,949 --> 00:20:03,180 Speaker 2: solutions that investors and investors can tap into to get 362 00:20:03,859 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: practical, financially feasible and tested decarbonisation solution. So we can 363 00:20:08,209 --> 00:20:10,709 Speaker 2: address this problem as soon as possible. 364 00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:16,030 Speaker 1: And how are you building this um solution set if 365 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,790 Speaker 1: you will, is it based on your six years of 366 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,550 Speaker 1: investing where you've seen what works and what doesn't uh 367 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,319 Speaker 1: do you have other, you know, partners who will also 368 00:20:24,329 --> 00:20:27,069 Speaker 1: help you provide solutions? How is that all working? 369 00:20:27,670 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: Like any coalition, like any group? 370 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:32,780 Speaker 2: This is, has a snowball effect, right? You need to 371 00:20:32,790 --> 00:20:36,079 Speaker 2: have a few visionary players who come in, they help 372 00:20:36,089 --> 00:20:39,619 Speaker 2: you start the ball rolling. What we we're confident and 373 00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: we're comfortable is that over the last six or seven years, 374 00:20:43,770 --> 00:20:46,589 Speaker 2: we have through our global equity strategy engaged with some 375 00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:51,129 Speaker 2: of the I would say best decarbonising companies in the world. 376 00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:54,150 Speaker 2: And from speaking with them, we already have a, 377 00:20:54,939 --> 00:20:58,599 Speaker 2: a list of, let's say solutions that providers that we 378 00:20:58,609 --> 00:21:01,020 Speaker 2: believe that should be able to help the companies and 379 00:21:01,030 --> 00:21:03,739 Speaker 2: the investing companies who want to, who have, who want 380 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,930 Speaker 2: to deliver on their carbon ambitions, if not at a 381 00:21:06,939 --> 00:21:10,530 Speaker 2: faster pace and at a bigger scale as well. So 382 00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:15,319 Speaker 2: this coalition of investors, investors and solution providers is going 383 00:21:15,329 --> 00:21:19,540 Speaker 2: to grow over time. We have intentionally uh 384 00:21:21,579 --> 00:21:26,790 Speaker 2: we intentionally have planned for the Gatan Coalition to go 385 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: grow in three different phases because we want to do 386 00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: the test case in phase one, which is a very 387 00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:35,380 Speaker 2: Asia Pacific centric because we are based here with the 388 00:21:35,390 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 2: view that in phase two and three 389 00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 2: Giton coalition investor members, investing members and solution that providers 390 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,569 Speaker 2: by the by phase three will be global in nature. Therefore, 391 00:21:45,579 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 2: have an impact. I I if I may add one 392 00:21:48,410 --> 00:21:52,349 Speaker 2: more thing that makes this Gigatons coalition different from most 393 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,869 Speaker 2: other dare I say, initiatives or platforms and all the 394 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,899 Speaker 2: rest is that it in itself has put on itself. 395 00:22:00,609 --> 00:22:05,939 Speaker 2: I gat to 1 billion ton carbon emissions saving uh 396 00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: target for the next decade in phase one. because to us, 397 00:22:11,770 --> 00:22:16,150 Speaker 2: uh we want to put the onus on the secretariat 398 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,969 Speaker 2: of the Gatan Coalition that are you truly delivering, helping 399 00:22:19,979 --> 00:22:23,819 Speaker 2: invest investors who bring their investing companies to find solutions? 400 00:22:23,829 --> 00:22:25,869 Speaker 2: Are you truly contributing to that 401 00:22:26,150 --> 00:22:30,569 Speaker 2: and contributing in an impact sense? Are you helping bend 402 00:22:30,579 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: the curve for them? Because if you're not helping them 403 00:22:33,130 --> 00:22:36,669 Speaker 2: bend the curve and then you're not really adding any value, right? 404 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,410 Speaker 2: So that's another place where the Gatan Coalition in our 405 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:42,030 Speaker 2: view is very unique. It helps bend the curve and 406 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,770 Speaker 2: it has to prove its own utility. 407 00:22:44,729 --> 00:22:48,910 Speaker 1: When you earlier said that you don't see the coalition 408 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: as like a meta consultant who goes inside a company 409 00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:57,030 Speaker 1: identifies its problem and then uh work with them to 410 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: solve the problem. You are looking at companies that already 411 00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:03,819 Speaker 1: have targets, they have already identified their problems. So shouldn't 412 00:23:03,829 --> 00:23:07,060 Speaker 1: you work with companies that have no targets and try 413 00:23:07,069 --> 00:23:09,709 Speaker 1: to make a difference as to those who already have targets? 414 00:23:10,469 --> 00:23:11,910 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, 415 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,989 Speaker 2: uh C A 100 is doing that already in some ways. Right. 416 00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:20,500 Speaker 2: C A 100 has been sort of uh through, 417 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,688 Speaker 2: you know, uh uh through their approach, telling companies you 418 00:23:24,699 --> 00:23:26,979 Speaker 2: better put in place targets. And I think there's plenty 419 00:23:26,989 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 2: of other organizations that are helping to convert the, let's 420 00:23:31,650 --> 00:23:34,420 Speaker 2: say unbelievers or the unconverted 421 00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:40,790 Speaker 2: for sitting here practically on the ground, dealing with companies 422 00:23:40,979 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: for myself and my team, the priority became, how do we, 423 00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:47,540 Speaker 2: and it's an urgency thing as well. You know, if 424 00:23:47,550 --> 00:23:50,079 Speaker 2: we spend a lot of time and energy just trying 425 00:23:50,089 --> 00:23:55,339 Speaker 2: to convert the unconverted, what about the converted, being able 426 00:23:55,349 --> 00:23:58,179 Speaker 2: to deliver that to us is, 427 00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:02,478 Speaker 2: is a bigger opportunity and a challenge. It's easy to 428 00:24:02,489 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: get someone to say, ok, I will commit to a 429 00:24:04,290 --> 00:24:07,079 Speaker 2: 2050 target. Thank you. Now leave me alone and I 430 00:24:07,089 --> 00:24:09,659 Speaker 2: come back in 30 in 20 years time, right? 431 00:24:10,170 --> 00:24:13,599 Speaker 2: But it's harder to actually say to someone you've converted, 432 00:24:13,609 --> 00:24:16,550 Speaker 2: you've given these targets. Now let's have a discussion and 433 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,938 Speaker 2: then see how we can help you. So we are 434 00:24:19,949 --> 00:24:23,829 Speaker 2: not going to force or judge people for their targets. Yes, 435 00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: the companies that we have selected are pretty ambitious in 436 00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:28,189 Speaker 2: what they want to do, but we want to make 437 00:24:28,199 --> 00:24:31,010 Speaker 2: sure they actually deliver on that and if not deliver 438 00:24:31,020 --> 00:24:33,369 Speaker 2: at a faster and bigger pace. So I think uh 439 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:34,310 Speaker 2: you know, 440 00:24:34,704 --> 00:24:36,905 Speaker 2: impact, I always say impact is in the eye of 441 00:24:36,915 --> 00:24:40,135 Speaker 2: the beholder for some people very much. So what you're 442 00:24:40,145 --> 00:24:43,875 Speaker 2: saying there's more impact in converting someone who doesn't believe 443 00:24:43,885 --> 00:24:47,454 Speaker 2: in this, to believing in it. The others like myself 444 00:24:47,464 --> 00:24:50,015 Speaker 2: is like, I'm very much a practical person, I'm saying, OK, 445 00:24:50,025 --> 00:24:53,155 Speaker 2: you know what? Even though if, if the metric of 446 00:24:53,165 --> 00:24:57,564 Speaker 2: believers is that they are BT let's say, approved with 447 00:24:57,574 --> 00:24:58,334 Speaker 2: their targets. 448 00:24:58,910 --> 00:25:03,030 Speaker 2: Our global equity strategy portfolio has 78% of our portfolio 449 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,060 Speaker 2: has S BT I approved or committed targets. When I 450 00:25:06,069 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 2: go and speak to all those portfolio companies, I would 451 00:25:08,449 --> 00:25:12,530 Speaker 2: say only a handful of them actually have a legitimate 452 00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:15,889 Speaker 2: plan on getting there. And this is a reality on 453 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:19,969 Speaker 2: the ground which any investor or any investing will tell 454 00:25:19,979 --> 00:25:22,930 Speaker 2: you that having a target. It doesn't mean that the 455 00:25:22,939 --> 00:25:24,849 Speaker 2: game is over. It's how do you get there 456 00:25:25,719 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 1: almost at the starting point? Um I wanted to ask 457 00:25:29,489 --> 00:25:31,430 Speaker 1: you a high level question earlier. I forgot, I'm just 458 00:25:31,439 --> 00:25:32,889 Speaker 1: going to ask you this now and then we'll go 459 00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:35,969 Speaker 1: back to talking about the uh G and coalition um 460 00:25:36,199 --> 00:25:39,219 Speaker 1: in the US. We're going through this big hype cycle 461 00:25:39,229 --> 00:25:41,379 Speaker 1: on A I related investment. A lot of money is 462 00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:45,109 Speaker 1: going in that sector. Uh Do you worry that these 463 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,790 Speaker 1: sort of uh mans sort of crowd out investment away 464 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: from uh climate related investment or the stock market is 465 00:25:52,930 --> 00:25:54,629 Speaker 1: still being um 466 00:25:55,020 --> 00:25:57,550 Speaker 1: sort of justifiably sort of, or rather it is so 467 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,300 Speaker 1: rewarding companies that are doing adjustment to their climate goals 468 00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:04,030 Speaker 1: or is the focus all on who's got a I 469 00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:06,099 Speaker 1: in their name? And should we just put money in them? 470 00:26:06,609 --> 00:26:10,729 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's an interesting, it's a very interesting question 471 00:26:10,739 --> 00:26:12,939 Speaker 2: because I think even last time when we spoke, uh, 472 00:26:12,949 --> 00:26:17,459 Speaker 2: at that time there was some policy flip flopping and 473 00:26:17,469 --> 00:26:21,569 Speaker 2: there's always policy flip flopping. Investors interest waning and, like, 474 00:26:21,579 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 2: increase 475 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,500 Speaker 2: as well. Right. Um, so I'm not going to deny 476 00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:29,699 Speaker 2: over the last, let's say, 18 months since we last spoke, right? 477 00:26:29,709 --> 00:26:35,939 Speaker 2: Uh Investors interest in some of the hot environmental sectors 478 00:26:35,949 --> 00:26:39,329 Speaker 2: that uh everyone thought was going to be the next, 479 00:26:39,339 --> 00:26:43,089 Speaker 2: you know, big thing has, has decreased, right? Uh Prime 480 00:26:43,099 --> 00:26:46,929 Speaker 2: example is look at evs, right? Uh EVs have taken 481 00:26:46,939 --> 00:26:49,489 Speaker 2: a massive hit at the same time 482 00:26:50,329 --> 00:26:56,729 Speaker 2: 1218 months ago, hydrogen lost its uh you know, can 483 00:26:56,739 --> 00:27:00,229 Speaker 2: I say the word sexiness? Uh uh you know, it did, right? 484 00:27:00,239 --> 00:27:05,430 Speaker 2: So there, there are pockets of environmental investing that will 485 00:27:05,439 --> 00:27:10,270 Speaker 2: become relevant, irrelevant for investors. Uh And that, that happens 486 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: over time. I mean, I've seen this over 30 years 487 00:27:12,810 --> 00:27:17,089 Speaker 2: of investing. Uh I don't think the environmental genie can 488 00:27:17,099 --> 00:27:19,750 Speaker 2: be put back in the bottle that's not going away. 489 00:27:19,959 --> 00:27:22,979 Speaker 2: Uh Now, yes, there's going to be sectors within the 490 00:27:22,989 --> 00:27:26,339 Speaker 2: environment where for a while they might become the hot 491 00:27:26,349 --> 00:27:28,810 Speaker 2: topic and everyone sort of gravitates to that and the 492 00:27:28,819 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 2: money just flows and the media forces that sort of 493 00:27:32,489 --> 00:27:36,020 Speaker 2: money towards that. But I think uh on the ground 494 00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:41,339 Speaker 2: industrial policies are moving in the right direction whereby companies 495 00:27:41,349 --> 00:27:44,589 Speaker 2: who are delivering decarbonisation solutions. 496 00:27:44,979 --> 00:27:47,489 Speaker 2: And as we spoke last time, as and when carbon 497 00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:52,770 Speaker 2: pricing becomes also a lot more firmer and impactful for 498 00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: companies and their profitability, investors will see through that. So 499 00:27:56,170 --> 00:27:59,469 Speaker 2: I think I'm not worried that A I is taking 500 00:27:59,479 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: away all the money from environment. I think the hot 501 00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 2: money will always flow from one place to another. Then 502 00:28:06,744 --> 00:28:10,524 Speaker 2: the kind of money that my team and I are 503 00:28:10,535 --> 00:28:12,755 Speaker 2: focused on is not your hot money. That is just 504 00:28:12,765 --> 00:28:16,344 Speaker 2: looking for a quick buck. We are looking for investors 505 00:28:16,354 --> 00:28:20,305 Speaker 2: impact investors, climate, impact investors who want impact at scale 506 00:28:20,314 --> 00:28:23,954 Speaker 2: and with integrity and our focus on listed equity space. 507 00:28:23,964 --> 00:28:27,415 Speaker 2: And I think that that is still at a very early, early, 508 00:28:27,425 --> 00:28:28,323 Speaker 2: early stage, 509 00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:32,189 Speaker 1: right? Uh So coming back to the giggles and coalition, 510 00:28:32,199 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: I think it's related to what you just said that 511 00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:37,569 Speaker 1: when you're making your pitch, if I may use that 512 00:28:37,579 --> 00:28:42,219 Speaker 1: term to uh companies, both investors and investors to join 513 00:28:42,229 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: this coalition, um How are you trying to motivate them 514 00:28:45,530 --> 00:28:48,030 Speaker 1: that why this coalition and not some other initiative? 515 00:28:48,489 --> 00:28:51,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. So uh it goes back to what I was 516 00:28:51,130 --> 00:28:55,910 Speaker 2: saying earlier on most investors and I'm talking institutional investors here. 517 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,310 Speaker 2: If I'm the ceo of let's say a big endowment 518 00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:02,150 Speaker 2: or a big sovereign wealth fund or a big foundation, 519 00:29:02,790 --> 00:29:06,349 Speaker 2: I'm over the last 5 to 7 years. My organization 520 00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:12,410 Speaker 2: has committed to some kind of top down macro climate goal, right? 521 00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:15,329 Speaker 2: It could be net zero, it could be committing to 522 00:29:15,339 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 2: S BT or going carbon neutral or carbon positive, you 523 00:29:18,729 --> 00:29:20,849 Speaker 2: name it right. There's all these things and then I'm 524 00:29:20,859 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: the CIO and I've been given the mandate now you 525 00:29:23,010 --> 00:29:27,729 Speaker 2: convert your portfolio. Now, my portfolio is very broad wide 526 00:29:28,069 --> 00:29:30,189 Speaker 2: and for me to achieve that, 527 00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:34,390 Speaker 2: I need to start moving as many levers as I can, right? 528 00:29:34,579 --> 00:29:37,430 Speaker 2: Uh and one of the biggest levers and one of 529 00:29:37,439 --> 00:29:42,050 Speaker 2: the biggest asset classes for any institutional investor or CIO 530 00:29:42,140 --> 00:29:46,550 Speaker 2: is their listed equity space. And up until now, most 531 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 2: people have just ignored the 532 00:29:49,380 --> 00:29:53,410 Speaker 2: potential for decarbonisation in their listed equity space. And this 533 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: is where the Paki team has it as their mission 534 00:29:56,170 --> 00:30:01,209 Speaker 2: is to show and, and bring to uh the CIO 535 00:30:01,219 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: s of this world that listed equities. You can have 536 00:30:05,010 --> 00:30:09,890 Speaker 2: climate impact with integrity there. Our new strategy which is 537 00:30:10,229 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 2: 2.5 years in the making and third iteration of the 538 00:30:13,050 --> 00:30:16,170 Speaker 2: Asian Environmental Action Fund that I first sort of spoke 539 00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:18,390 Speaker 2: to you about uh in 2022. 540 00:30:18,829 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: It in our, in our view and our belief is 541 00:30:21,530 --> 00:30:24,250 Speaker 2: that it comes as close to being a genuine impact 542 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: investment in the climate space with all the credentials that 543 00:30:28,569 --> 00:30:32,130 Speaker 2: is needed for an impact investment. And the gatun coalition, 544 00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:34,410 Speaker 2: by the way, is a big part of that. It's 545 00:30:34,420 --> 00:30:37,300 Speaker 2: the Gig Aon coalition and the strategy is very much 546 00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:40,510 Speaker 2: in line and it goes back to sorry, why would 547 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,459 Speaker 2: an investor want to do that is because an investor 548 00:30:43,469 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: wants to decarbonize their portfolio companies and the biggest part 549 00:30:47,770 --> 00:30:50,500 Speaker 2: of their portfolio companies uh sorry of their portfolio is 550 00:30:50,510 --> 00:30:52,430 Speaker 2: listed equities, a fairly big part. 551 00:30:53,140 --> 00:30:57,119 Speaker 2: But within that the scope of decarbonising and therefore moving 552 00:30:57,130 --> 00:30:59,910 Speaker 2: the needle of your oil portfolio is massive. And as 553 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,170 Speaker 2: I shared with you last time we spoke one company 554 00:31:03,180 --> 00:31:06,099 Speaker 2: in Japan has scope three of about 400 million tons, 555 00:31:06,349 --> 00:31:10,550 Speaker 2: two companies. And to put it in perspective, Australia's carbon 556 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: emission as a country is about 550 million tons per year, right? 557 00:31:14,650 --> 00:31:17,199 Speaker 2: So one Japanese company almost makes that 558 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: two companies put together in Japan have scope 123 greater 559 00:31:21,650 --> 00:31:25,140 Speaker 2: than all of Australia, right? For one year. So if 560 00:31:25,150 --> 00:31:27,500 Speaker 2: if these companies are in your portfolio and you help 561 00:31:27,510 --> 00:31:32,979 Speaker 2: them decarbonize and your whole portfolios, uh sort of carbon 562 00:31:32,989 --> 00:31:36,219 Speaker 2: emission numbers become better, the chances are you're going to 563 00:31:36,229 --> 00:31:37,290 Speaker 2: achieve your 564 00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:41,530 Speaker 2: overall portfolio goals. So that's for why investors would join, 565 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,030 Speaker 2: why would invests join, right? These are companies, right? And 566 00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 2: and this is a very, very important topic. Many people 567 00:31:48,489 --> 00:31:51,439 Speaker 2: have said, why would a big listed company talk to 568 00:31:51,449 --> 00:31:54,170 Speaker 2: a gig to coalition? First and foremost, we're not an 569 00:31:54,180 --> 00:31:58,369 Speaker 2: initiative which is forcing a carbon or a climate target 570 00:31:58,380 --> 00:32:01,729 Speaker 2: down their throat. We're saying to them, you already have 571 00:32:01,739 --> 00:32:05,410 Speaker 2: a carbon target. We are here, you are, your investor 572 00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:07,369 Speaker 2: has brought you to the Gigatons Coalition 573 00:32:07,689 --> 00:32:09,910 Speaker 2: and we are here to help you solve for the 574 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,839 Speaker 2: challenges that you have. You tell us what your challenges 575 00:32:11,849 --> 00:32:15,189 Speaker 2: are right? We are going to provide you various options 576 00:32:15,199 --> 00:32:20,910 Speaker 2: solutions for that decarbonisation challenge. And from a management perspective, 577 00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,819 Speaker 2: if the management of the board of a company know 578 00:32:23,829 --> 00:32:26,979 Speaker 2: that an investor has brought a few climate solutions to them, 579 00:32:27,339 --> 00:32:31,349 Speaker 2: I think they will listen to that climate solution a lot, 580 00:32:31,930 --> 00:32:35,829 Speaker 2: a lot more proactively than uh you know, if it 581 00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:38,630 Speaker 2: was just coming from the sustainability team, that's, that's the 582 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,650 Speaker 2: first thing internally, an investor bringing a solution has a 583 00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:44,689 Speaker 2: lot more impact than if the sustainability internally is telling 584 00:32:44,699 --> 00:32:47,109 Speaker 2: them to do that. I think it's also the name 585 00:32:47,119 --> 00:32:49,430 Speaker 2: and fame part of it being part of a coalition 586 00:32:49,439 --> 00:32:54,270 Speaker 2: and being supported by other investors becomes a sort of 587 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,979 Speaker 2: almost like a badge of honor for some people as well. 588 00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:57,849 Speaker 2: So that's where 589 00:32:58,329 --> 00:33:02,030 Speaker 2: the investing companies should come on board and take these 590 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,140 Speaker 2: solutions in a proactive way. And, and the last one 591 00:33:05,150 --> 00:33:07,790 Speaker 2: is why would solution members come to it? It's a 592 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: commercial arrangement. The Gatton coalition is only a matchmaker at 593 00:33:12,290 --> 00:33:13,819 Speaker 2: the end of the day. The companies are going to 594 00:33:13,829 --> 00:33:15,709 Speaker 2: have to say, OK, is this consult 595 00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:17,410 Speaker 2: going to help me I'm going to pay for it. 596 00:33:17,420 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 2: Is this solution software gonna help me I'll pay for it. 597 00:33:20,890 --> 00:33:22,650 Speaker 2: Is this hardware going to help me I'll pay for it. 598 00:33:22,660 --> 00:33:24,949 Speaker 2: Is this research going to help me I'll pay for it. 599 00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:29,689 Speaker 2: So it's, we're not, it's not meant to be for free. The, the, the, 600 00:33:29,699 --> 00:33:33,069 Speaker 2: the solution providers they are going to have 601 00:33:33,829 --> 00:33:38,849 Speaker 2: at their disposal companies that are converted companies that have investors, 602 00:33:38,859 --> 00:33:42,319 Speaker 2: taking them to them. And they will also have investors 603 00:33:42,329 --> 00:33:44,189 Speaker 2: who potentially could be investing in some of these solution 604 00:33:44,199 --> 00:33:48,030 Speaker 2: providers because they see that they're growing in size and scale. 605 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,349 Speaker 2: So I think it's a win, win, win for all 606 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:51,630 Speaker 2: members of the coalition. 607 00:33:52,849 --> 00:33:55,819 Speaker 1: So it is going to be an ecosystem of sorts. 608 00:33:55,829 --> 00:33:58,310 Speaker 1: If you will, there are solution providers, there are people 609 00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:01,189 Speaker 1: who need solutions and then there are people who want 610 00:34:01,199 --> 00:34:04,729 Speaker 1: to make money investing in companies who are solving for 611 00:34:04,739 --> 00:34:07,410 Speaker 1: climate change. And, and so you're trying to create a 612 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:10,389 Speaker 1: bit of an umbrella for that. I understand that in 613 00:34:10,399 --> 00:34:14,189 Speaker 1: addition to the Gigatons coalition, there's also this thing called 614 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,830 Speaker 1: the Asia Gigatons Fund. Uh Can we talk about that? 615 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:23,089 Speaker 2: Yeah. So the Asian Gigatons Fund, as I mentioned was, 616 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:26,330 Speaker 2: is the third iteration of the Asian Environmental Action Fund 617 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:30,409 Speaker 2: that we started talking about in 2022 the team has 618 00:34:30,419 --> 00:34:34,159 Speaker 2: gone to the drawing back to the drawing board again 619 00:34:34,169 --> 00:34:39,379 Speaker 2: and again to fine tune um um fine tune our 620 00:34:39,389 --> 00:34:42,830 Speaker 2: original version into what is now the Asian Gigatons Fund. 621 00:34:42,918 --> 00:34:45,059 Speaker 2: And as the name suggests, first of all, it's Asia 622 00:34:45,069 --> 00:34:48,858 Speaker 2: Pacific focused. Secondly, the Gig Aon, meaning that it is 623 00:34:48,868 --> 00:34:51,529 Speaker 2: going to invest in companies with a view and with 624 00:34:51,539 --> 00:34:55,058 Speaker 2: an ambition that it will deliver at least at least 625 00:34:55,069 --> 00:34:58,099 Speaker 2: 1 billion tons of cumulative savings over the next decade. 626 00:34:58,108 --> 00:35:01,938 Speaker 2: That's at least if not higher. And that is the 627 00:35:01,948 --> 00:35:04,489 Speaker 2: focus of this impact fund. Now, this is where I 628 00:35:04,498 --> 00:35:07,499 Speaker 2: think I need to be also for the viewers. 629 00:35:08,149 --> 00:35:11,770 Speaker 2: One thing that we have been sharing with our uh investor, 630 00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:16,030 Speaker 2: institutional investor partners is that there is a thing called 631 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,138 Speaker 2: climate conscious strategies, which is majority of the strategies currently. 632 00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:23,929 Speaker 2: And then there's a climate impact strategy and and the 633 00:35:23,939 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: difference being climate conscious strategy are strategies where risk return 634 00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:31,649 Speaker 2: are still the number one priority. Uh And but the 635 00:35:31,659 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 2: portfolio is creating 636 00:35:32,949 --> 00:35:35,779 Speaker 2: in a way where it has certain climate goals, Guard rails. 637 00:35:35,790 --> 00:35:37,830 Speaker 2: As you asked me a question, would you buy in 638 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,739 Speaker 2: a company that is a fossil fuel but is expanding 639 00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:43,570 Speaker 2: but not doing this or doing that? Those guard rails 640 00:35:43,580 --> 00:35:46,979 Speaker 2: as long as their climate, everyone will have their own climate, 641 00:35:46,989 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 2: guard rails and therefore climate goals that becomes a climate 642 00:35:50,370 --> 00:35:54,020 Speaker 2: conscious strategy. And even some of the very thematic climate 643 00:35:54,030 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 2: strategies out there come within that because they still focus 644 00:35:56,729 --> 00:35:57,459 Speaker 2: on risk of return. 645 00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:00,899 Speaker 2: But then you have a smaller but growing focus on 646 00:36:00,909 --> 00:36:04,860 Speaker 2: what we call pure climate impact, right? This is where 647 00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:08,340 Speaker 2: these are, you could say concessionary strategies where 648 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 2: financial returns are expected. But the first priority is can 649 00:36:13,409 --> 00:36:18,229 Speaker 2: they deliver carbon outcomes that the investor wants? And as 650 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: I said to you in the listed equity space, many 651 00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 2: people have not been able to create this because the 652 00:36:25,729 --> 00:36:28,299 Speaker 2: rules around impact investing that have been now 653 00:36:28,445 --> 00:36:32,004 Speaker 2: put in place by developmental financial institutions over the last 654 00:36:32,014 --> 00:36:36,314 Speaker 2: four decades, even, you know, uh uh uh uh various 655 00:36:36,324 --> 00:36:39,264 Speaker 2: foundations like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Ford Foundation, 656 00:36:39,274 --> 00:36:41,944 Speaker 2: all these folks who have been doing impact investing for 657 00:36:41,955 --> 00:36:45,985 Speaker 2: decades now, they have very, they are very well established now, 658 00:36:45,995 --> 00:36:49,554 Speaker 2: rules on what is impact investing and not many people 659 00:36:49,564 --> 00:36:53,804 Speaker 2: have been able to put the put those, let's say 660 00:36:53,814 --> 00:36:56,904 Speaker 2: uh rules and frameworks in place and deploy them in 661 00:36:56,915 --> 00:36:57,264 Speaker 2: the 662 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:58,860 Speaker 2: listen equity space. 663 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,969 Speaker 2: And when we embarked on this ambition to bring to 664 00:37:03,979 --> 00:37:08,569 Speaker 2: our institutional investors, a climate impact strategy as genuine as 665 00:37:08,580 --> 00:37:14,659 Speaker 2: you can get to impact investors requirements. Gigatons Coalition was 666 00:37:14,669 --> 00:37:17,409 Speaker 2: the missing element that we had to create because the 667 00:37:17,419 --> 00:37:22,459 Speaker 2: Gigatons Coalition, what it does, it proves to investors that 668 00:37:22,469 --> 00:37:23,050 Speaker 2: what 669 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,340 Speaker 2: they brought to the table was not just financial capital, 670 00:37:26,379 --> 00:37:29,899 Speaker 2: but some kind of add on contribution that helped their 671 00:37:29,909 --> 00:37:33,259 Speaker 2: investing companies bend the curve which I talked about earlier. 672 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,629 Speaker 2: So the Gig Aon Fund and the Asian Gigatons Fund 673 00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:39,500 Speaker 2: and the Asian and the sorry, the Gigatons coalition 674 00:37:39,969 --> 00:37:43,049 Speaker 2: have a symbiotic relationship. They sort of kind of help 675 00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:46,590 Speaker 2: each other support each other and especially in phase one, 676 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 2: the Asian Gigatons Fund is the sponsor of the Gigatons Coalition. 677 00:37:50,199 --> 00:37:53,030 Speaker 2: In phase two, we expect other investors to come in 678 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,149 Speaker 2: and use the Gigatons Coalition. And in phase three of 679 00:37:56,159 --> 00:38:00,030 Speaker 2: the Gigatons Coalition, we expect Panahi partners and the Asian 680 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,030 Speaker 2: Gigatons Fund to be just another 681 00:38:02,290 --> 00:38:06,340 Speaker 2: investor utilizing the Library of Solutions because we want the 682 00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:10,929 Speaker 2: Gigatons Coalition to become an open source solutions platform. But 683 00:38:11,020 --> 00:38:16,830 Speaker 2: phase one, the Asian Gigatons Fund is basically uh the, 684 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,110 Speaker 2: you know, supporting and growing the Gigatons coalition 685 00:38:20,969 --> 00:38:22,850 Speaker 2: if I may now for the gat to fund the 686 00:38:22,860 --> 00:38:25,020 Speaker 2: Asian one. And these are some interesting numbers. Again, 687 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,620 Speaker 2: the the Panache team has identified 585 listed companies 688 00:38:32,419 --> 00:38:37,050 Speaker 2: in Asia Pacific. Their total scope 123 is about 18 689 00:38:37,060 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 2: billion tons per annum. That is 35 to 40% of 690 00:38:41,449 --> 00:38:47,610 Speaker 2: global emissions. 585 companies, these 585 companies have given us 691 00:38:47,620 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 2: targets of reducing about 4.5 billion tons of that 18 692 00:38:52,139 --> 00:38:54,949 Speaker 2: over the next decade or so. So for us 693 00:38:55,479 --> 00:38:59,580 Speaker 2: as an investor in listed equity space, uh now having 694 00:38:59,590 --> 00:39:04,060 Speaker 2: the Gatan Coalition in place, we can go and identify 695 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:07,219 Speaker 2: a smaller subset of these companies and say, OK, we're 696 00:39:07,229 --> 00:39:09,729 Speaker 2: going to invest in you. The Gatan Coalition is going 697 00:39:09,739 --> 00:39:14,178 Speaker 2: to provide a whole uh solution set of options for 698 00:39:14,189 --> 00:39:17,340 Speaker 2: you to choose from to help you uh expand your 699 00:39:17,350 --> 00:39:22,100 Speaker 2: uh decarbonisation plans. And that's how the gigatons Coalition and 700 00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:23,330 Speaker 2: the Gigatons Fund 701 00:39:23,610 --> 00:39:27,199 Speaker 2: operates and works. So that's the, that's the relationship, that's 702 00:39:27,209 --> 00:39:29,129 Speaker 2: the size and scale of what we think. Both the 703 00:39:29,139 --> 00:39:33,250 Speaker 2: Gigatons Fund, Asian Gigatons Fund and the Gigatons Coalition can 704 00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:35,919 Speaker 2: have a climate impact. And that's why I get so 705 00:39:35,929 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 2: excited uh because this is sitting right underneath uh under 706 00:39:40,090 --> 00:39:43,060 Speaker 2: our noses and, and, and we just need to have 707 00:39:43,070 --> 00:39:46,569 Speaker 2: a solution and a platform to sort of catalyze all 708 00:39:46,580 --> 00:39:48,260 Speaker 2: these sort of impacts 709 00:39:49,139 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 1: that sounds very promising. So when at the beginning of 710 00:39:52,409 --> 00:39:55,550 Speaker 1: this podcast, you sort of pointed out that you've had 711 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,790 Speaker 1: a around 18 month period city between podcasts at, at 712 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,629 Speaker 1: copy time. So let's say we meet again in 18 713 00:40:03,639 --> 00:40:07,199 Speaker 1: months time, hopefully over a couple of copy for real. 714 00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:13,479 Speaker 1: Uh And as it's late 2025 what would you sort of, 715 00:40:13,489 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: you know, talk about in terms of the successful path 716 00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:18,679 Speaker 1: between early 24 and late 25? 717 00:40:19,649 --> 00:40:24,060 Speaker 2: So I, um by then, I hope we'll be sitting 718 00:40:24,070 --> 00:40:27,110 Speaker 2: here and I'll be telling you that our biggest challenge 719 00:40:27,330 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 2: is not finding people to be part of the Gatan Coalition, 720 00:40:31,330 --> 00:40:35,209 Speaker 2: but uh how to manage uh the number of, 721 00:40:36,995 --> 00:40:38,803 Speaker 2: you know, how many people want to become a member 722 00:40:38,814 --> 00:40:41,334 Speaker 2: and how to manage that, right? How to manage that. 723 00:40:41,344 --> 00:40:44,364 Speaker 2: Uh That's first and foremost. So I do hope that, 724 00:40:44,475 --> 00:40:48,264 Speaker 2: you know, in 18 months time, the the challenge is 725 00:40:48,274 --> 00:40:51,254 Speaker 2: not getting people in the coalition is more like who 726 00:40:51,264 --> 00:40:55,053 Speaker 2: should be in the coalition. Secondly, that the Asian Gigatons 727 00:40:55,064 --> 00:40:58,745 Speaker 2: Fund is up and running and we have deployed a 728 00:40:58,875 --> 00:41:01,854 Speaker 2: lot of the capital in companies and we're engaging with 729 00:41:01,864 --> 00:41:04,875 Speaker 2: them and on track to start contributing to what their 730 00:41:04,885 --> 00:41:05,814 Speaker 2: impact is. 731 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,229 Speaker 2: And I would say we are in talks to expand 732 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:16,199 Speaker 2: the Gatan Coalition into phase two, which is where 733 00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:20,689 Speaker 2: investors who are our founding investors in the Gigatons Fund, 734 00:41:20,699 --> 00:41:25,089 Speaker 2: Asian Gigatons Fund, they can bring their portfolio companies from 735 00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:29,169 Speaker 2: outside of the Gigatons Fund into the coalition because the 736 00:41:29,179 --> 00:41:33,449 Speaker 2: solution sets that we have provided and shown are actually working. 737 00:41:33,459 --> 00:41:36,330 Speaker 2: They are practical, they're financially feasible and they are tested. 738 00:41:36,340 --> 00:41:36,649 Speaker 2: And so 739 00:41:36,725 --> 00:41:39,675 Speaker 2: so therefore we get a broader, we, we, we, we 740 00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:42,965 Speaker 2: can give an ambition for a greater than multi gat 741 00:41:43,064 --> 00:41:47,024 Speaker 2: to of uh contribution from the Gigatons Coalition. So that's 742 00:41:47,034 --> 00:41:51,875 Speaker 2: my sort of ambition uh for uh and, and you know, 743 00:41:51,885 --> 00:41:54,155 Speaker 2: I'd be very happy if in 18 months time, uh 744 00:41:54,195 --> 00:41:56,814 Speaker 2: I was ticking those three boxes. 745 00:41:58,030 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: Well, here's to tick those boxes in 18 months time. 746 00:42:01,110 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: This has been fascinating. Wish you the very best of 747 00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:05,500 Speaker 1: luck both with the gig on Coalition as well as 748 00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:08,479 Speaker 1: the fund. Thank you so much for your time and insights. 749 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 2: Thank you, Temor and I do look forward to our 750 00:42:12,330 --> 00:42:14,839 Speaker 2: next chat in 18 months and then, and once again, 751 00:42:14,850 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 2: thanks for taking this message and sharing it with all 752 00:42:18,370 --> 00:42:19,820 Speaker 2: your readers. Thank you so much. It is 753 00:42:19,830 --> 00:42:21,580 Speaker 1: super, super important. 754 00:42:21,929 --> 00:42:25,879 Speaker 1: Uh Kobe Time was produced by Ken Delbridge at supply studios, 755 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,689 Speaker 1: Violet Lee and Daisy Sherman provided additional assistance. It is 756 00:42:29,699 --> 00:42:33,479 Speaker 1: for information only and does not represent any trade recommendations. 757 00:42:33,709 --> 00:42:37,010 Speaker 1: All 117 episodes of the podcast are available on youtube 758 00:42:37,020 --> 00:42:41,429 Speaker 1: and all all major podcast platforms including Apple Google and Spotify. 759 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,010 Speaker 1: As for our research publications, webinars and live streams, you 760 00:42:45,020 --> 00:42:47,790 Speaker 1: can find them all by Googling D BS research Library. 761 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,070 Speaker 1: Have a great day.